1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey, they're friends. It's me Josh, and this week I've 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: selected for s y s K selects our episode on 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: the Donner Party, which was pretty grim. I mean, we 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: all know about the Donner Party, but once you start 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: to learn the details of the whole thing, it's pretty grim. Anyway, 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: I guess I would say enjoy this normally, but yeah, okay, 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: go ahead, enjoy this episode in a grim way. Welcome 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: to Stuff you Should Know, a production of My Heart 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark with me as always a Charles W. 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you should know. 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: M I don't. I'm fine. Good. How are you doing? 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm great, dude. I watched PBS today at work, which 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: is always fun when you get to watch TV via 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: the computer and work. Yeah, paid for it. Yeah, man, 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: I remember I watched American grind House once at work 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: while we were doing the exploitation I did do. Actually, 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: it was awesome. I watched the PBS is American Experience, 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: which is an awesome show. I've been around for years, 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: and I watched there obviously. I watched the one in 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: the Dinner Party. Oh, is that the one you watched? 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: I gotcha. I just saw there was one on the 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Johnstown flood that I which I would have known, I 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: would have watched it. Oh yeah, I mean I'll still 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: watch it. I still want to learn. You're not gonna 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: you only watch PBS at work for money? Yeah, you're right. Um. 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: I was doing a little research and I came across 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: something called hugh Fou or wofu play on Hulu. You know, 29 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: a play on tofu that's designed, um to taste like 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: human flesh. Oh, I was going in an entirely different direction. 31 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: There is a big um. Yeah, no, this is this 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: is about canniballism. Now there's a big media put on it. 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: It made the Daily Show. Um. All sorts of articles 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: came up about whufu. There was a spokesman, there was 35 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: a website, UM, and it was the tofu that's that 36 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: tastes like human They were saying the reason why they're 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: doing it so anthropologists could better, um understand their subjects 38 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: when they were investigating cambalism. And there's plenty of people 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: out there who just wanted to try it. Well, how 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: did they know? How did they flavor it like human? Well? 41 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: They didn't. It turns out the whole thing was the 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: total farce. But if you still look today, Um, it 43 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: was on the snop sport. It's not definitively yes, but 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: no one's ever had it. And apparently while you could 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: access the website, you you couldn't buy. You got an 46 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: error message whenever you tried to check out or whatever. 47 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: But um, it was pretty funny that everybody got taken 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: on that. I thought I'd mentioned. Yeah, I did too, 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: And if you look in Urban Dictionary, Um, that's still 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: there's no mention of it being fake or fictitious. Yeah, 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: I think and loath to say it, but it was 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: Wikipedia that that initially said it's fictitious. To me, I 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: feel dirty. Um, but Chuck, we talk about Hoofu or hufu, 54 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: depending on what region of the country you live in. 55 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: Um to talk about the Donner Party, which is one 56 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: of those very rare instances in the history of humanity 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: where we can say, pretty much without doubt, people ate 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: other people, and they did so under some of the 59 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: most horrific circumstances that humans have ever endured. This group 60 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: of people went through Holy hell. Yeah, it's pretty rough there. Yeah, 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: I can just keep going for the rest of the episodes. 62 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: How bad it was? Um and uh. I learned a 63 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: lot from this article, a lot of new surprising stuff, 64 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: and it's pretty cool. Like, did you know that it 65 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: took two years when it should have taken six months? 66 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: Not true? What are you talking about? It took one year? Okay? Yeah? 67 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: Well did you know that the Donner Party was originally 68 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: the Donna Reed Party and the the Reed Party split 69 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: off and made their way without event onto um Fort Sutter, California. 70 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: No problem, that's not true either. What are you talking about? Yeah, 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: this is not the best article on our site, I 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: must say. And I read it and then I did 73 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: my own research and was like, wow, how did you 74 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: miss some of this stuff. We'll get to the bottom 75 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: of that and we'll we'll make sure it gets changed. 76 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: I've already sent an email actually about that, did you 77 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: an angry one? Well, just like, how could this be 78 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: on our site? It's so wrong and it's so easily 79 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: figured out. It's not like rocket science. It's like it 80 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: took two years. No, look at a calendar. It took 81 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: one year. So a caddie one, yes, okay, it was 82 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: a little caddy. Um. Well, let's talk about the Donner party. 83 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what's known what's not known. So Donna 84 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: Donna Reid. Donner was a wealthy farmer in his sixties. 85 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: Reid was Irish American businessman, had some dough as well. 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: He financed the trip. Oh did he I believe? So? Okay, 87 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: But George Donner was the official guy in charge. Yeah, 88 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: James Reid thought that he was going to be in charge. 89 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: Um and kind of was in a way. But they 90 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: did elect Donner the captain because Reid turned off people 91 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: with his his RV. Essentially, he had a a macked 92 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: out wagon that everyone else is really piste off about 93 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: because it was double decker and it had a stove 94 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: in it, and it had bunk beds, and it was 95 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: like apparently like made a big commotion among the other 96 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: people because they're like, oh, who's this guy with his 97 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: big wagon? And this is even before for the chuck 98 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: wagon was invented by Charles Chuck Goodnight. Do you want 99 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: to go ahead and tell that story, Well, there's not 100 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: much to tell. Charles Chuck Goodnight was a cookie on 101 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: the wagon trails, uh, and after the Civil War he 102 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: had gotten very tired of not having a decent meal, 103 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: so he bought an old government wagon and converted it 104 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: into a kitchen, which became the first chuck wagon named 105 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: after him. And uh, from that, if you follow it 106 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: further and further, you get diners and food trucks. Chuck wagon. Yeah, 107 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: very nice, gosh, very slick. So the Donna Reed Party, Uh, 108 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: like a lot of people back then, said you know what, 109 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: you know where? It's at this place called California that 110 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: I've heard so much about. And this is prior to 111 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: the gold Rush. Um this there was a movement towards 112 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: populating California, basically wrestling wrestling control of California away from 113 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: the Spanish just through sheer numbers, by having a bunch 114 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: of white folks show up and basically saying, Mexico, you 115 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: can't you can't control this land anymore. It will be 116 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: too expensive and costly. We're taking over because we live 117 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: here now, That's right. And Lansford Hastings was one of 118 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: the main dudes behind this movement. He was an attorney 119 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: from Ohio. He went to California forty two and dreamed 120 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: of wrestling this land from the Mexican Uh, from Mexico 121 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: and saying, and governing California himself, well he dreams. He 122 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: did so with a guy named John Sutter who was 123 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: a German born Swiss immigrant who had taken Mexican citizen 124 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: citizenship to get a charter a land grant from the 125 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: Mexican government, and he used it to form New Helvetia 126 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: or New Switzerland a k a. Fort Sutter, which is 127 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: now Sacramento Swiss German Swiss born with Mexican citizenship. Yeah, 128 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: I love it. Who was a trader? Only the can 129 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: do stuff like that exactly only in California, you know. 130 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: But Hastings will come back up in a very big 131 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: way because it's pretty much all his fault. Uh. So 132 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: they basically set out for for California in May, while 133 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: they set out from Springfield in April, but Missouri in 134 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: May is when they had the whole gang together, the 135 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: big wagon train. So we're going west, we're following the 136 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: California trail. Everyone goes that way. Everyone actually that year 137 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: made it except for the dinner party. Oh yeah, yeah, 138 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: all the immigrants going to California checked in, okay, except 139 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: for these these sad folks, and um, it was really 140 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: all because of one fateful decision to tell the truth. Um, 141 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: they were just like any other uh wagon train, just 142 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: like any other pioneers. They weren't trailblazers. They were following 143 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: trails that they learned of and um, they were well equipped. 144 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: They weren't stupid, no, no, but they did make one 145 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: faithful decision, like you said. Um. Hastings was his first name, Lanford. 146 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: Lanford Hastings comes up in a big way because a 147 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: lot of people laid the disaster, the calamity of the 148 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: Donner party, at hastings feet, because he was also a trailblazer, 149 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: and he came up with a fanciful thing called the 150 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: Hastings cut off. That's right, a shortcut essentially. Yeah. He 151 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Immigrants Guide to Oregon in California, 152 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: which Donner had on the seat of his wagon, and 153 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: there was a very brief sentence about the shortcut, the 154 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: Hastings cut off, that was supposedly going to cut off 155 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: about three fifty four hundred miles of a full three 156 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: weeks off of the trip, which is a big chunk 157 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: for a six month trip that's definitely worth the the 158 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: trip that they cut off. The problem was, Hastings had 159 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: never taken this route himself and had certain never taken 160 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: a wagon over it, but that didn't stop him from 161 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: claiming that all of the roads were high and hard 162 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: and level, that there was plenty of water and grass 163 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: for the livestock um, and that there were no aggressive 164 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: Indian tribes in the area. Yeah, he basically painted it 165 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: out like a pleasure cruise because he was trying to 166 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: get as many people as possible to California. He actually 167 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: would go and hang out, like on the way to Oregon, 168 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: on the Oregon Trail and be like, you don't want 169 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: to go there, you want to come down to California. 170 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: Because he would lead people. Yeah, so this is why 171 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: he came up with the Hastings cut off. And it 172 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: was a dangerous gamble and the Donner Party said, well, 173 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: we want to shave three weeks off of our trip. Well, yeah, 174 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: part of the Dinner Party, uh went left, part of 175 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: him went right. The part that went right did just fine. 176 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: And you don't hear about them. They're not the Dinner 177 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: Party any longer. I don't know what they're what they 178 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: called themselves, but it wasn't The Reds was not the Reds. 179 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: The Reds stayed with the Donners. Uh, and they went left, 180 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: went on to Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They were going to 181 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: meet up with Hastings there, and they got there a 182 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: little late, and and Hastings was no longer there, but 183 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: he uh sent a message. Oh, he left a note 184 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: somewhere along the trail along the Hastings cut off saying, Uh, 185 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: this may not be as good as I thought. You 186 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: should probably turn back. Well. Yeah, and before that, this 187 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: other dude um named Climbing, was headed east from California 188 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: by way the Hastings cut off, and he said, don't 189 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: go this way. He said, you're you're never gonna make 190 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: it alive. Your wagons aren't gonna make it, and you 191 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't even make it, so don't go that way. 192 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: So but they continued, they continued, they found the note, 193 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: and when they found the note, read went uh spent 194 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: five days looking for Hastings to kill him, to talk 195 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: to him about what the deal was. He just said 196 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: he wanted to talk to him. Yeah, he wanted to 197 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: kill him. Uh. He did find him, actually, and he 198 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: didn't kill him. Uh. In Hasting said, I'm not coming 199 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: back with you to lead Uh sorry, but hey, I'm 200 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: up on this High Bluff and there's another route, and 201 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: that one looks a lot better, and so they went 202 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: that way instead, which was still the southern route under 203 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: the Great Salt Lake. But um, it was not a 204 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: good move and that's what started the beginning of the 205 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: end for the Dinner Party. Two miles a day. Yeah, 206 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: at that point, in thirty six days, they went sixteen miles, 207 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: which is horrible considering that, um, they averaged about twelve 208 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: miles a day normally. Um, they ended up going an 209 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: extra hundred and twenty five miles and it added three 210 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: weeks to the trip rather than subtracting three weeks to 211 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: the trip. They also lost four wagons, which is a 212 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: big deal in a wagon train. Yeah, they lost a 213 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: lot of oxen of their cattle as well. And uh, 214 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: that's where they lost some of their first members because 215 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: since they were in the desert eighty miles stretch of 216 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: desert on the trail, yeah, the salt desert, so you 217 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: got the heat during the day and then it was 218 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: very cold at night. And this was in August that 219 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: this was like m hm. They eventually met back up 220 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: with the California Trail, but they thought, oh man, that 221 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: was rough. But now we're all set because we're back 222 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: on the original trail. So that that time that it 223 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: took him, I mean that extra three weeks, wasn't it. 224 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: That wasn't went Dinniman. They were going slower than they predicted. Yeah, 225 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: and it's important to know right here, during that Hastings 226 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: cut off route where they started to encounter like a 227 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of hardships, they sent this dude named Stanton. He 228 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: was a bachelor from New York UH and he was 229 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: one of the only like single dudes there. They sent 230 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: him out for provision. So he took off for a 231 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: period of time and did come back with five mules 232 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: loaded with food and two Indian guides Lewis and Salvador 233 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: to help him out. So they weren't a part like 234 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: the article says the original UH train either. He came 235 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: back with the provisions with Stanton. UH. During this time, 236 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: read got in a fight. It was basically the first 237 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: incident of road rage. His wagon became entangled. His big 238 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: like RV wagon became entangled with a guy named Snyder. 239 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: They fought, Red killed Snyder with a knife. They had 240 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: a little kangaroo court and first said they should hang 241 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: him and then said no, you know what, just pack 242 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: your stuff and get out of here. And so he 243 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: did the next day without his family. He left. So 244 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: he's crazy. There's two stories going on. Now you've got 245 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: the dinner party and the Red family. Then you've got 246 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: read who goes on his own makes it to California. 247 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: Actually just fine. Well he was no worse for the 248 00:14:44,440 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: wear at least, So wow, the dramas high. Already, the 249 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: drama is high. They they the amount of time, all 250 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: the setbacks, all the problems that they encountered, conspired to 251 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: put them back on the California Trail after the disastrous 252 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: hastings cut off um And right at the eastern edge, 253 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: so that would be the but the Nevada side maybe 254 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: of the um Sierra Nevada Mountains in November at the 255 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: first snow storm, and it was a pretty bad snow storm, 256 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: and they thought, we can't make it through these mountains 257 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: in the middle of winter. It's November. Let's just hunker 258 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: down here. And it would turn out to be one 259 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: of the worst winders, one of the harshest winners on 260 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: record that they were unknowingly honkering down for. And they 261 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: made camp two very famous camps there's the Donner Camp 262 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: at the edge of a little lake in the area, 263 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: truck Ee Lake. And then there was the Alder Creek camp, 264 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: which apparently was uh founded because of a broken wagon wheel, 265 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: is six miles back either back along the trail, and 266 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: that's where the two groups camped in the Donner Party. 267 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: If I may a reading from the diary of one 268 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: of the members of the Donner Party, November Party, like 269 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: you're surprised. November one. It was a raining then in 270 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: the valleys and snowing in the mountains. So we went 271 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: on that way three or four days till we came 272 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: to the Big Mountain, or the California Mountain. The snow 273 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: was then about three ft deep. There there was some 274 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: wagons there. They said they had attempted to cross and 275 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: could not. We set out the next morning to make 276 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: a last struggle, but did not advance more than two 277 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: miles before the road became so completely blocked that we 278 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: were compelled to retrace our steps into Spare. When we 279 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: reached the lake, we lost our road, and, owing to 280 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: the depth of the snow in the mountains, were compelled 281 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: to abandon our wagons and pack our goods. Upon Oxen 282 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: so this is early November and they are in bad 283 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: shape and basically the wagons can't even pass anymore. So 284 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: they set up these camps, are like, we gotta hunker 285 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: down for the winter, and ultimately they ended up in 286 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: an area where there was through the winter thirty ft 287 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: of snow. Not over time like that was the snowpack 288 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: was thirty ft deep. Yeah, I mean, it's still one 289 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: of the worst winners on record, like today, not just 290 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: for the time. And these people, this group of fairly 291 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: green hornish people from back east, are settled down in 292 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous spots in the country at 293 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: the time, at least climate wise, yeah, meteor logically dangerous. 294 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: Provisions started to run out another diary entry, November six. 295 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: We have now killed most of our cattle, having to 296 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: stay here until next spring and live on poor beef, 297 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: without bread or salt. It's snow during the space of 298 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: eight days with little intermission. After our arrival, Mr Curtis 299 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: remarked that in the oven was a piece of the 300 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: dog and we could have and we could have it. 301 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: Raising the lid of the oven, we found the dog 302 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: well baked and having a fine savory smell. I cut 303 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: out a rib, smelling and tasting found it to be 304 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: good and handed the rib to Mr McCutchen, who, after 305 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: smelling it sometime tasted it and pronounced it the very 306 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: good dog. So apparently that was, you know, the Dinners 307 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: dog or the Reeds dog. It was one of the 308 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: main Fellas dogs. You know, was met that fate. Yeah, 309 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: I hadn't. I didn't read that he was delicious. Uh well, 310 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: I imagine if you're dying of starvation, anything that's going 311 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: to be delicious. They ate their shoes strings, they ate 312 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: the kids would sit in front of the fire and 313 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: pick off pieces of the hide skin rug and eat that, 314 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: and then they eventually ate the hide from the roofs 315 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: of the cabins because there are actually cabins at the lake. 316 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: There were no cabins at the creek, but they weren't, 317 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: you know, they weren't much help against this kind of know. 318 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: In fact, apparently they were completely packed in at one 319 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: point and couldn't even get out of the cabin. It 320 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: was like the thing that happened to um Mr Burns 321 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: and Homer Simpson. Yeah, when the the camping tripper was 322 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: at the ski trip, it was the corporate retreat right, boy, 323 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: that was a good one. Um. They also they boiled 324 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: their blankets into like kind of a pasty glue. Apparently 325 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: you said they're shoelaces, right, They ate their shoelaces, Yeah, 326 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: because I think they were made of like animal hide 327 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: or something, bark, twigs, anything they could get their hands on, 328 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: anything that might have any kind of protein they were eating. Yeah, 329 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,239 Speaker 1: they boiled the bones so much for soup that they 330 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: became just brittle. So they ate the bones of the 331 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: animals because they could like bite into them. So it's, um, 332 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty rough. They also, it should go without saying, 333 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: they ate their pack animals. They managed to hunt for deer, 334 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: which is pretty good in thirty ft of snow to 335 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: hunt deer in the middle of winter and successfully. Hats 336 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: off to them for that. Yeah, they got other things. 337 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: They got birds here and there, like ducks and owls, 338 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: and uh, I think they got a wolf one time. 339 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: So they were able to the forage here and there. 340 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: But everybody, everyone's clearly starving by this time, and it's 341 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: the writings on the wall to the parties at these camps. 342 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: So they select a group of um, well, the strongest people, 343 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: including the two Indian guides, and I think it was 344 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: the strongest fifteen people equipped them with homemade snowshoes and 345 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: set them out to walk across the Sierra Nevada Mountains 346 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: in the middle of winter with almost no food. They 347 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: had six days starvation rations per person um. And they 348 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: were called the forelearn Hope that was the name of 349 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: the group, or the Snowshoe Group. And I just want 350 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: to point out that this is some of the most 351 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: beautiful land you'll ever see in your life. So it's 352 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like they were in a goolag 353 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: in Siberia. I mean, this was like gorgeous Sierra Nevada 354 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: mountain range in this lake. You know, it's it's absolutely amazing. 355 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: So it must have been a bitter pill, you know, 356 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: to be that close. So they're only like a hundred 357 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: and fifty miles away at that point and just stuck, yeah, 358 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: and dying. I think even beyond the beauty, the fact 359 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: that they were a hundred and fifty miles from their 360 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: destination dying, like you said, that's rough. It was them 361 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: the Forlorn Hope Group, where cannibalism first came up because 362 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: they all ran out of food very quickly. And apparently, uh, 363 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: six days in a guy um named Charles Stanton. Who 364 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned Stanton, didn't you. Yeah, he was a bachelor, 365 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: one of the early heroes. He was saying, hey, you 366 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: guys go on without me or um, you know, take 367 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: me with you as provisions maybe, and everybody said, no, 368 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: we can't do that. It's crazy, stop that, um, and 369 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: they left him to die, right. Yeah. A couple of 370 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: days after that, they thought, hey, maybe Stanton wasn't so crazy. 371 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: Let's figure out well, let's let's all let's explore the 372 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: possibility of cannibalism. And they did. They discussed it, and 373 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: apparently at first they decided that they were going to 374 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: draw lots draw straws and then whoever is like the 375 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: custom of the sea, whoever drew the short of straw 376 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: was going to die, and whoever drew the second short 377 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: of straw was the person who had to kill him. 378 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: And this one guy I can't remember his name, drew 379 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: the straw the shortest straw, but nobody had the heart 380 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: to kill him, so they kind of just waited instead 381 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: for the next person to die, and they proposed dueling 382 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: to at one point, like, let's do a shootout whoever dies, 383 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: we'll just eat them. But it was very grim. Um. 384 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: Another another reading perhaps, Yes, this was in December actually 385 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: right for Christmas, sadly, and this melancholy. And this is 386 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: from the Snowshoe group, the Forlorn Hope. In this melancholy situation, 387 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: they consulted together and concluded they would go on trusting 388 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: in Providence rather than return to the miserable cabins. They 389 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: were also at this time out of provisions and partly agreed, 390 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: with the exception of Mr Foster, that in case of necessity, 391 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: they would cast lots who should die to preserve the remainder. 392 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: So it's coming, yea, they know it so UM I 393 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: think A couple of days after Um they started talking 394 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: about cannibalism. The first guy died. His name was Um Antoine. Yeah, 395 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: and Antoine Um was eaten by the Forlorn Hope group. Um. 396 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: He was the first one, but definitely not the last. 397 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: There was a guy named Jay Fast, Yes, he was 398 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: the next in A lady named Mrs Foster cut the 399 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: meat from his bones, boiled it and served it to everybody, 400 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: and everybody ate. But the one thing that was um 401 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: agreed upon was that relatives wouldn't eat relatives. Uh. So 402 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: there was a guy named Jay fos Dick who was 403 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: who died next and he was um butchered and cooked 404 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: and served by a lady named Mrs Foster his fan 405 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: but his uh. One of the things they agreed upon 406 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: was that relatives wouldn't eat relatives, right so uh but 407 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: apparently his father was part of the um. The Forlorn 408 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: Hope group to yeah, he wasn't having it huh. And 409 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: then things apparently started to turn on the two Indian 410 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: guides who um the group started discussing murdering and eating them, 411 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: and one of the other Forlorn Hope groups said, hey, 412 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: we're talking about doing this. You guys might want to 413 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: take off. So the Indians apparently had trouble believing it 414 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: at first. Um. They finally said, oh wait, that's right. 415 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: You guys are white man. I forgot you totally would 416 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: do that. And they disappeared into the woods. Yes, but 417 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: they were later found. They tracked them by their blood, 418 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: so apparently they weren't in great shape and they found them. 419 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: This is where it gets a little hinky. Um. Some 420 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: accounts say they found them dead and ate them. Some 421 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: accounts say they found them alive and like passed out basically, 422 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 1: and they shot them both through the head and then 423 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: ate them either way. They ate them, as you know, 424 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: even though there's no anthropological proof. Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah. 425 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: So this whole all of these events take place over 426 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: thirty three days the forlorn hope. Yeah yeah, um they 427 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: and I imagine the cannibalism. It came in starting on 428 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: day nine, Um, no day ten or eleven, and then 429 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: after that they had two more days of this and 430 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: they finally made it to Fort Sutter and said, hey, um, 431 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: we got big problems. We need your help. Let's start 432 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: sending out some rescue parties. How many it was like 433 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: seven of them? Uh yeah, seven made of the original fift. 434 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: So all right, so that story is going on. You've 435 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 1: still got the Donner party back at the camp by 436 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: the lake and the river, and you've still got read 437 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: who made it to Sacramento to Sutter Sport. He tried 438 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: to get supplies and men to take back to to 439 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: rescue his family, and the Mexican American War prevented that 440 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: from happening. He was essentially forced to kind of join 441 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: up that effort, and he couldn't get any of the 442 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: men anyway, because they were everybody was fighting in the war. 443 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: So uh. He would later go on to be part 444 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: of the second relief party that went to go find them. 445 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: So we'll pick that up when we get there, right 446 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: Because meanwhile, while the forlorn hopes engaged in this horror 447 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: in the woods, the same stuff's going on back at 448 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: the UM camps on the eastern edge of the Sierra Nevadas. Um. 449 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: It took a little longer, I believe, but eventually UM 450 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: people started to eat the dead. Yeah, that had died 451 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: of starvation, right, that's true. So, like I mentioned, there 452 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: were some rescue efforts. There were four groups that went 453 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: from California, because word got back and they even started 454 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: writing about it in the paper in San Francisco that 455 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: these people were stranded in the Sierra Nevadas. So uh. 456 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: In February five, there was a quote we concluded, we 457 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: could go or die trying for not to make any 458 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: attempt to save them would be a disgrace to us 459 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: into California for as long as time lasted. And that 460 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: was one of the members of the very first relief 461 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: group of seven men, fifty pounds of provisions headed out, 462 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: but Reid was a part of the second group, right. 463 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: The first group didn't leave for thirteen days after the 464 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: forlorn Hope came to Fort sutter Um and then Yeah, 465 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: read led the second group. So one survivors were brought 466 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: back by the first group, seventeen by the second group. 467 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: The third group UM rescued four and then they had 468 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: to leave four people behind, including a guy named Lewis 469 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: Keysburg and Um. When the fourth group came back, Louis 470 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: Cuthberg was the only person alive. Suspiciously, well yeah, he 471 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: was accused um almost immediately of murdering the other three 472 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: people and eating them. Uh. He was said to have 473 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: been discovered surrounded by the disfigured and cannibalized corpses of 474 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: the other three people. That in the frying pan there 475 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: was like lungs and livers, buckets of blood. Basically, he 476 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: was in this um crazy place that he had created 477 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: himself through cannibalism, completely off his rocker at that point. 478 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: But the big kicker was that there were three uneaten 479 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: oxen legs and that when asked, he had said that 480 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: he oxen didn't have a very good flavor, so he 481 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: had resorted to eating the other people. But they had 482 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: died of natural causes. He hadn't murdered them. So when 483 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: the rescue party comes and gets them, Keysburg has kind 484 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: of kept the arm's length, like no one's talking to him. 485 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: They don't want to have anything to do with them. 486 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: When they made camp one night, he apparently was looking 487 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: at the snow and saw like a little piece of cloth, 488 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: and um tugged at it. It It was in the snow, 489 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: tugged at a little harder, little more, and all of 490 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: a sudden, Um, he jars loose his dead daughter, the corpse, 491 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: the frozen corpse of his dead daughter, who had last 492 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: seen sending off with his wife on the third rescue party. 493 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: So he had it pretty rough one way or another. Yeah. 494 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: He sued for defamation later on and the right when 495 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: he got back. Yeah, the courts awarded him one dollar 496 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: and demanded that he paid the court cost on top 497 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: of that. So he lived the rest of his life 498 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: pretty much a hermit. Well, yeah, he was derided as 499 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: a murdering cannibal who enjoyed it. He denied that the 500 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: rest of his life. Um, and other people denied too. 501 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: Like first they would say like, yeah, we we resorted 502 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: to cannibalism here and here and here. Then later on 503 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: someone would say, no, we didn't actually Um, that was 504 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: just sensationalized. Well, yeah, there's a big question so like 505 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: of whether the there actually was cannibalism in the Dinner 506 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: Party or if it was all sensationalized and fabricated by 507 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: the newspapers. The big question is is if if the 508 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: Donner Party hadn't resorted cannibalism, why would they lie. Well, 509 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: the answer to that is they wouldn't lie about resorting 510 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: to cannibalism. And the reports are probably true, but in 511 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: the great tradition of William Errands, you need to see 512 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: it to believe it. As far as cannibalism goes, most 513 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: people don't genuinely dispute that the Donner Party did engage 514 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: in cannibalism. But the problem is there is a lack 515 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: of forensic evidence. Like you said, they ate the bones 516 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: and bones of animals like the dog, you know, horses, deer, foxes, 517 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: that wolf. All these bones have been found at the campsites, 518 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: but they haven't found any human bones. So there's a 519 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: lot of explanations for that. Um. We know for a 520 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: fact that some people who came upon these scenes after 521 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: the dinner party had left, ordered like these these things 522 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: to be cleaned up and buried. Makes sense. Um. Other 523 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: people have suggested that the Donners didn't um, didn't try 524 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: to process the human cadavers like they did the animal 525 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: bones and kind of very gently, so they wouldn't have 526 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: left butcher marks on the bones. Um. And then others 527 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: say that if they didn't cook the bones like they 528 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: did the animal bones, and those bones would have disintegrated 529 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: a long time ago. Then lastly, the argument against it 530 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: is that these things of cannibalism, like you said, happened 531 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: here and here and here and here. We only know 532 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: of one legitimate Donner site that's been excavated. The others 533 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: haven't been found. They can't find them. Yeah, so it's 534 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: possible there is evidence out there and just hasn't been discovered. 535 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: But the point is, why would these people, if they 536 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: did actually say this, and these are their journal entries, 537 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: why would they say that they engaged in cannibalism if 538 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: they hadn't exactly so read. In the meantime, made his 539 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: way back with a second relief group. Was convinced that 540 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: his family was dead, but was very surprised and relieved 541 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: to find that they were alive. So can you imagine 542 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: this reunion that happens when his like eight two year 543 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: old son was still alive eight year old daughter. They 544 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: were one of two families that didn't have any deaths. Yeah, 545 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: the Reeds suffered no deaths, and I believe the Breens 546 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: did not suffer deaths. All of the Donners died, every 547 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: single one of them, which is pretty sad and um. 548 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: Out of the group, I think two thirds of the 549 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: women and children survived, two thirds of the men died, 550 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: and everyone over fifty died. That was Yeah, fifty was 551 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: pretty old back then, especially for those kind of conditions. 552 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: So there you have it, the Donner Party. Basically, what 553 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: that did was halted a lot of immigration to California 554 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: for a while until word of gold came around, and 555 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: then they said that was it. Screw it. I'll take 556 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: my chances. It was like a year before the first 557 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: gold Rush, and then there was the Movement of eighteen 558 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: forty nine, the big gold Rush of eighteen forty nine, 559 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: and that was that. I think read what the one 560 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: of the read wife sent a letter out afterward that 561 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: was like, don't be afraid to come out here, you know, 562 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: just don't take any shortcuts and hurry. It was basically 563 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: don't listen to Hastings, and Hastings was like the whole time, dude, 564 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: he was being cursed, like on a daily basis. He 565 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: was vilified and cursed and that pretty much scrapped his 566 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: reputation as a trailblazer and uh, anyone to be trusted. 567 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: And that was the end of him. I couldn't find 568 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: anything up about the rest of his life, but I 569 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: know that he was pretty well disgraced by that. He 570 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: went on to be like a merchant and like he 571 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: lived in a life after that, but he apparently was 572 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: remorseful for the rest of the life. That's Langford hastinks. 573 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 1: I guess if you want to know more about him, 574 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: you can type his name L A n G F 575 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: O R D H A S T I n G 576 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: S in the search bar at how stuff works dot 577 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: com and it will coincidentally enough bring up as this 578 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: article on the Donner Party. And I said, search bar 579 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com, right, this soon to 580 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: be changed article on the dinner party, and uh, yeah, 581 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: since it's gonna be changed soon, maybe give us a minute. Um, 582 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: but I said howster works dot com and search bar, 583 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: which means it's time for listener mayl Yes, this is 584 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: back to the future. Josh Okay, Josh Chuck exclamation points. 585 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: I just listened to the Zero podcast and heard your 586 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: cries for help from across the ages. We all heard you, guys, 587 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: go get into the way Back Machine, but I think 588 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: only a few of us realize that you never came out. 589 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: I could tell that something had gone wrong by the 590 00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: tone of your voice as you near the end of 591 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: the show. I know that you are trying to send 592 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: us a message. You are stuck in fifth century India. 593 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: I hope you have found somewhere safe to bunker down. 594 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: Do not try to fix the way Back Machine on 595 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: your end. Jerry and I are working on a way 596 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: to fix the broken flux capacitor remotely and bring you back. 597 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: We hope to hear you return to us on a 598 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: podcast soon. And one final warning, do not, under any 599 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: circumstances use the way Back Machine while you are still 600 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: strapped inside the way Back Machine. The last thing we 601 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: need is an inception style time travel within time travel scenario, 602 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: and that says uh Max Prince Godspeed from Max Prince 603 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: assistant to Dr Emmett Lathrop, Doc Brown. Nice a little 604 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: bit of fun there. I've been enjoying the heck out 605 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: of a sog preneer that I've been eating morning, noon 606 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: and night. Oh yeah, man, I get enough of this lavash. 607 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: Well yeah, if you have a bit of amusement for us, 608 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: I found that highly amusing. Um. You can tweet to 609 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: us at s y s K podcast. You can hit 610 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: us up on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash Stuff 611 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: you Should Know, and you can send us an email 612 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: to stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com. Stuff 613 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's How 614 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 615 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 616 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H