1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, Let's go. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Let's go. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 2: Giants. 4 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Do come get on my Giants, give me some job. 5 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: Part of the Giants podcast Network. Let's roll. Welcome to 6 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: another edition of the Giants Subtle Podcast, brought to you 7 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: by Citizens, the official bank of the New York Football Giants. 8 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I am John Schmelk. Today we are joined by former 9 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: NFL General manager Pat Kerwin, now of course a host 10 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: on Sirius XMNFL Radio of Moving the Chains with Jim 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: Miller every Monday through Friday three to seven on Serious 12 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: XMNFL Radio channel eighty eight. I listened to it every 13 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: day on the way home from work. Pat, I appreciate 14 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: the time today. How you doing. 15 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 3: I'm doing great, John, Thanks for having me. Big fan 16 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 3: of New York Giants, So I'm anxious to have this conversation. 17 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking forward to talking to you about this too. 18 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: Where Just so the folks understand, we're recording this on Friday. 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: It's gonna air first thing Monday morning, so if a 20 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: couple things happen over the weekend, I'll apologize ahead of time. 21 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: This is a busy time of year. Pat, so as 22 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: a former GM, tell me what this weekend was like 23 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: for you heading into that negotiating window opening up on 24 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Monday at noon. 25 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: Well, it depended on if you had cap space or 26 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 3: if you didn't have cap space. So if you're underneath, 27 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: you guys are lucky. 28 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 2: You're not. 29 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 3: You're forty one million over. You're getting ready to jump 30 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 3: out and go after the guys you want and resign 31 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 3: your own if you care to. And you know there's 32 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 3: going to be some battles for guys. But the teams 33 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 3: that are over the cap and have to still liquidate, 34 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 3: I've been in that situation and the next couple of 35 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: days are going to be crazy. So I'm glad you 36 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 3: mentioned Monday might be a lot different than today. So 37 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: you're first off, way before today, your pro personnel department 38 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: has studied every contract and they know where the cap 39 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 3: casualties are going to be, predicting most of them. We've 40 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: already had almost fifty players hut and put on these lists, 41 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: and they're saturating some of the position groups, like safety 42 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: is getting loaded up with a lot of players, not 43 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: so much at offensive tackle. 44 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: There's not many tackles in free agency. 45 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 3: And then you got to learn how to speculate on 46 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: marrying the draft pool with the free agent pool, so 47 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: you know what you need to do now and what 48 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: you can wait to do in the draft. 49 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: So it is kind of crazy. 50 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: But as they look at the Giants, a couple real 51 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 3: positives in my mind, forty nine guys under contract, forty 52 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: one million dollars at Caps Base, second youngest team in 53 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 3: the league. No crazy voidable contracts where there's you know, 54 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: the ghosts in the closet where so many teams are 55 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: using it now it's like a double credit card and 56 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: you don't do it. So I like the sound nature 57 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 3: of where the Giants are at now. They got to 58 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: go out and make good decisions in the draft and 59 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 3: certainly in free agency. 60 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: Okay, so I want to go on details on a 61 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: couple of things you mentioned two guys at the Giants 62 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: have that we still think they have interested in resigning. 63 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: They decide not to tag either player, Saquon Barkley and 64 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: Xavier McKinney. So interesting markets of those two positions, probably 65 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: the two most depressed markets in terms of position groups 66 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: in the league right now, pat and both those groups 67 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: have been flooded with high quality Pro Bowl level in 68 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: some cases veteran players. So the Giant's gonna let that 69 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: you guys go test the market at least as of 70 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: this recording on Friday, and then they'll decide what they 71 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: want to do. So how do you think that process 72 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: is gonna work well, Barkley McKinney, give the Giants a 73 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: chance to kind of match or go over whatever another 74 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: team offers them, or by letting them out into the wild, 75 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: are you risking Just all right, they're signing and we're 76 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: not gonna have another chance at these guys. 77 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: You might lose them both. So we're gonna start from 78 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: that reality. 79 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: Barkley's been tagged before, so he's probably the more difficult 80 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: because there's probably emotion in his equation. McKinney's probably excited 81 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: that he got a chance to see what the market 82 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: looks like, and he's entering a group where there's an 83 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: awful lot of twenty five, twenty six, and twenty seven 84 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 3: year olds in the free agent market, so it'll be interesting. 85 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: I think people should want to get them, but I 86 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: think the Giants, with their cap space, can compete against 87 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: who's out there and to take them. Now, personally, I 88 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: probably would have tagged, so I didn't have to do this, 89 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: But I think letting Here's what happens. Wh when you 90 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: say here's our offer and he doesn't like it, it 91 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: is a big enough difference. You'll let the market tell him. 92 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: This was an old Ozzie knew some trick. Ozzie used 93 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: to do it all the time. He say, you know what, 94 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 3: go out and see what's out there, and then give 95 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: us a chance to compete. So I think I think 96 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 3: McKinney has a better chance. I think Barkley's kind of 97 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: tied in a negative emotion. 98 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: He didn't get it. 99 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: He didn't do a deal last year, he was on 100 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: the tag, all that business. So I wouldn't worry as 101 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: much about Barker. 102 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: I like it. He's a great player. 103 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 3: But I think you can solve that problem in free agency. 104 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: Slash the draft, put two guys in there and battle 105 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: it out and have some depth. So I'm after McKinney, 106 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: if I'm if I'm Joe Shane. 107 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: The Giants Total Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, 108 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: the official bank of the New York Giants. From game 109 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: day to every day, Citizens is made ready for Giants 110 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: fans with insights, guidance and solutions. A lot more at 111 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: citizens bank dot com. Yeah, and you know the thing 112 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: about it, Pat, you mentioned that this safety market. Now, 113 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm bringing up my list here. I went 114 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: through this yesterday. I mean Gino Stone twenty four years old, 115 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: Jordan Fuller twenty six, Jordan Whitehead twenty seven. If you're 116 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: looking for more of a slot safety CJ. Gardner Johnson 117 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: twenty six, DeShawn Elliott twenty six, Darnold Savage twenty six. 118 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: These are all guys that you can plug in. It 119 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: start at safety. And that doesn't even count all the 120 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: veterans that just got released. That Kevin Byers, the Eddie Jackson's, 121 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: the Quandary Diggs, the Micah Hydes, the Jordan Poyer, some 122 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: of those guys that Joe Shane from his time in 123 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: Buffalo has a lot of history with too. Right, So yeah, 124 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: I guess it's safety. Even if you can't figure things out, McKinney, 125 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: you should be able to bring in a guy that 126 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: can start for your right. I even mentioned Justin Simmons 127 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: at probably not that high of a cost, right, Yeah. 128 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: So you have look I like that you're a very 129 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: young team. I would have no problem on a short 130 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 3: term deal doing a thirty plus year old guy or two. 131 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: His knowledge of Poyer as an example, I would take 132 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: advantage of that if I was Joe. But but if 133 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: you might be able to throw money, I like Gino 134 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: Stone and I like that kind of guy. Uh And 135 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: so I think you can get a young one. You 136 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: might be able to get two here and want to start. 137 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people want to play 138 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: big nickel. 139 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: And because these tight ends Flecks and his running backs 140 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: that play as wide receivers, a lot of coaches want 141 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: to play big nickel now, and that means three safeties 142 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 3: on the field. So you could probably go buy a 143 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 3: young one and bring a guy like Poyer in there 144 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 3: on a one or two year deal and be able 145 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: to really look good in the back end. So I 146 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: don't want to to lose McKinney, but if you do, 147 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: you got options. Yeah. 148 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: I think same with Barkley too, right. You know we 149 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: talked about the guys at the top of the running 150 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: back market. Even if the Giants don't go there, that Henry's, 151 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: the Pollard's, the Jacobs, things like that. You go to 152 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: the next group, Devin Singletary, Zach Boss again, two guys 153 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: that Joe Shane is familiarity with You want a bigger guy, 154 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: all right, don't they? Foreman aj Dillon and these are 155 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: all guys in to be in like what like the 156 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: five million dollar year type of range, so you know, 157 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: they maybe don't have the star power that a saque has, 158 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: but they're going to be pieces there of guys that 159 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: have started in this league that you can get that 160 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: are still in their prime and doesn't have a ton 161 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: of tread off the tire that can help you for 162 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: a few years. 163 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, throw Gus Edwards into it. He had thirteen touchdowns 164 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: last year. Local guys Staaten Allen, the Giants have kind 165 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: of they know a lot about the local guys. So yeah, 166 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: and again, you want to load up your running back 167 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: stable a veteran who knows what he's doing. Maybe the 168 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 3: guy that can handle first and second down. Maybe you 169 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: go into the draft for the third down guy or 170 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 3: vice versas. But I don't know why you couldn't load 171 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: up your running back room if you miss on Barkley. 172 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: You mentioned the draft. How much do your teams look 173 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: ahead pat at the strength of the draft where they're picking, 174 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: projecting what players they might might might be able to 175 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: get and might want to be trying to target, and 176 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: that will impact what positions and guys they go after 177 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: free agency. But you just think, well, maybe we can 178 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: fill that hole in the draft. 179 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 180 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: I think you have to marry both talent pools, and 181 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 3: you just had combine. It's interesting how the combines right 182 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: before the start of free agency to give those gms 183 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 3: and coaches a peek at the talent and kind of 184 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 3: sort it out, tie it to your scouts who've been 185 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 3: out all fall, and then look at it and say, well, 186 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: where are the strengths of the draft. Where are the 187 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 3: weakness of free agencies? So you're responding in the right areas. 188 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: You're going to draft at number six, I would be 189 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 3: looking for my receiver in the draft, and I'd be 190 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: looking for my big right tackle sooner or later. 191 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: I don't think you're. 192 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: Going down the road of Evan forever if you will, so, 193 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: I think the draft could provide the receiver that you need. 194 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: Maybe look if you had picked six Marvin Harrison, lath Them, 195 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: the tackle Olu, the kid from Penn State, tackle Rome Dunzee. 196 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: You're gonna get a choice at one of those guys. 197 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: And I think you could also if you're not going 198 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: to take a quarterback there. I'll say this, there's three 199 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: teams down below you that really are worried about each 200 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: other having a quarter back. The fourth best quarterback fall 201 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 3: to them. So when you look at Denver, Minnesota potentially 202 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: and certainly the Raiders, you might get a conversation where 203 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: you could move down to twelve. And I still think 204 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: you could get a tackle or a big time wide receiver. 205 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: So you're in a very good position if you want 206 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: to do one of those things. As I look at it, 207 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: and if you just use the Raiders, if you they 208 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: wanted to come up because they're behind Denver, they're behind Minnesota, 209 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 3: and they come up and they give you their second 210 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 3: round pick to do it. All of a sudden, you 211 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 3: have three second round picks and you move, You're going 212 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 3: down to twelve or so. So you need a draft 213 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: like Detroit had last year. I got a lot of 214 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: faith in Joe that if you've given that firepower three 215 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 3: twos in a one, and then his next pick is 216 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: at seventy, he could probably deliver you four starters from 217 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: the draft, which I would love to see. 218 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens, 219 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: so go to that retreat. Knew you move to the country. 220 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a life style brand. 221 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 4: Are you ready for all that life brings? 222 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. I would just hesit, you know, 223 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: I think it makes sense. I would be scared the 224 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: trade out of the possibility of Harrison and Dunezia or neighbors, 225 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: because I don't think you get those guys after ten. 226 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: But you could certainly get a tackle. It's such a 227 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: good first round tackle, Claud, you could get an offensive 228 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: tackle anywhere in that in that Yeah. 229 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 3: I'm to your points. On the free agent tackle list 230 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: is not very good. So the draft is where it's 231 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 3: gonna happen. I would say this when whenever I was 232 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: involved with a trade, we're not going to disclose to 233 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: our trade partner who we're looking for. This conversation will 234 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 3: happen right the week before the draft, and it's going 235 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 3: to be this, Yeah, if our guy that we wants 236 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 3: not there, yes, we'd move down. And if the guy 237 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: we want is there, we'd like to move up. So 238 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: you can set a framework for it. So let's say 239 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: Harrison and a Dunzie are gone, then you would you'd 240 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 3: move down because you can. 241 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: Get your tackle. 242 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 3: But if you thought one of those guys is there, 243 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: then you're gonna say, sorry, our guys there, we're gonna stay. 244 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: Those are the conversations I used to have all the time. 245 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 3: So you set up the framework because when the clock's on, 246 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: it's way too late to start thinking about setting up 247 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: a trade compensation. 248 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: All right, So let me ask you this, because you 249 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: mentioned quarterback and other teams looking to move up to 250 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: take a quarterback, there is a sizable section of Giant 251 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: fans that want them to address the quarterback situation this offseason. Obviously, 252 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: Daniel Jones coming off the year where he had a 253 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: second neck injury of his career, he has a coming 254 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: off of torn acl All indications are he'll be ready 255 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: to go by the start of the season. But if 256 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: you're in the Giants path, they don't have anyone else 257 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: on the contract besides Daniel Jones and Tommy DeVito, you're 258 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: gonna have to add somebody one or two guys just 259 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: to get through OTAs and probably parts of training can 260 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: depending on what Daniel's back. How would you go about this? 261 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 1: Would you just go veteran free agent? Would you go 262 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: all right, maybe day two quarterback that you can develop 263 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: behind Daniel in case he can't figure out a way 264 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: to stay healthy. How would you go after the quarterback 265 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: position or would you even maybe attack one at six? 266 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: If you love a guy, Well, if I loved one 267 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 3: at six, i'd take him. But I don't think I'm 268 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 3: gonna love one at six. I think after the first 269 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 3: three that there is a significant drop off. Although I 270 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: have no problems with McCarthy, I just wouldn't take him 271 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: at six. A couple of things you have to do. 272 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: First off, you have to assume that Daniel Jones is 273 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 3: not going to be ready to start the season. That 274 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 3: being said, who do you want to come in and start? 275 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: Maybe for the first six weeks and it might be 276 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: less than that. But who's that guy? So there's a 277 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 3: couple of git names i'd be approaching. I would be 278 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 3: talking about Minshew. He's a guy that came off the 279 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: bench and cult Landy's done it before. I would talk 280 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: about Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco likes to play, wants to 281 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: do two more years. I was talking to him the 282 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 3: other day. He could come in and function. He just 283 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 3: proved he can come off a couch and function. So 284 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 3: he's interesting, and then I do think you have to 285 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: start talking about the future. You can get out of 286 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: Daniel Jones' deal next year, and I believe he could 287 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: even actually create eight million of cap space. I'll go 288 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: back and look at the deal. So I would be 289 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: looking to take a young guy on the fly here. 290 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be this year. If I don't 291 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 3: like what I see, like I like Pennix, I like 292 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 3: the lefty, he throws hard like I'm not as worried 293 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 3: about the medical as I was a year ago. I 294 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: talked to two orthopedic guys who say, Pat, you got 295 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: to stay up with the times. Acls and achilles are 296 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: being repaired at a fast, fast rate and they are effective. 297 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: So I like Michael Pennix. 298 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 3: If you had firepower in the second round, I think 299 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: you could either move into the bottom of the first 300 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: to get them and then have the option for five 301 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: years on the guy, or sit there and take him 302 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 3: in the second. So I'd be targeting Pennix in the second, 303 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: or if I had three two's, I might package it 304 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: up and go get them at the bottom of the first, 305 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: which a lot of teams have done the past just 306 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: to get the fifty year option. 307 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: All right, let's rewind a little bit. Go head back 308 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: to Phreer Agency for a second. Here, Pat, when you 309 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: sit down with your pro pros and OL guys before 310 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: the combine, you do all your free agency meetings, right, 311 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: so you're ready for when this thing starts on Monday. 312 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: Do you literally have your price point for every guy 313 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: on the board? All right, Him, I'm willing to do this. Him, 314 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: I'm willing to do that. So when you hit the 315 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: ground on Monday at noon with this negotiating period, you 316 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: know what your best offer is going to be for 317 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: every one of these free agents that you might want 318 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: to target that on on your roster. 319 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 3: Well, in theory, you should have a budget ready to 320 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: go here, So let me just use like Mike Oh 321 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: when the kid out of New England. I think he'd 322 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 3: be like a terrific addition to your roster and he'd 323 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: be a priority for me. 324 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: I agree. 325 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: So I'm I might have a much looser mentality about 326 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 3: Michael because I've been in these things where the agent 327 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: calls you and says, hey, are you in on Michael? 328 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 3: Like and this I Dre Rosenhaus and I did it 329 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: multiple times. Are you in on this guy, and this 330 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: is the opening bit. If you want to stay in 331 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 3: the race, yeah, I'm in for that, no problem. An 332 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 3: hour later they call and say, hey, it's up a 333 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: little bit, it's up ten million or whatever it's going 334 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: to be, and that you're still in. 335 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still in. 336 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 3: Sooner or later you get to your boiling point and 337 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 3: you got to get out. But you want to stay 338 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: in on a guy like Michael longer than you might 339 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: want to stay in. Now, there's a corner or two 340 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 3: that I'd be interested in if you don't bring Dori 341 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 3: Jackson back, Kendall Fuller, those kind of guys. Right, Yeah, So, 342 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: but I do have budgetary mindset with this. I'm not 343 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: going to go crazy. I'm not going to go nuts 344 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: to buy a thirty year old guy or a thirty 345 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: two year old I'm not doing that. But when I see, 346 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: if I think about it, I can get my tackle 347 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 3: in the draft. I can get my receiver in the draft. 348 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 3: I like the guards and free agency. I like the 349 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: tackles in free in the draft. So I have a 350 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 3: couple of things. Will I take a shot at Christian Wilkins, 351 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 3: Heck yeah, I'll take a shot at him. 352 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: We'll see what that market's going to be like. 353 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: Because you have firepower forty one million of cap space 354 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: and you better use it. 355 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: You need to use it, and. 356 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: You're not in bad shape and all these things that 357 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: are wearing other teams out. You didn't have to put 358 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: an option year out on a two thousand twenty one guy. 359 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: That's good and bad in sense you restricted tenders are 360 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: not going to burn you up at all. You don't 361 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: have voidable deals that are going to haunt you. You 362 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 3: don't have a franchise tag player. The minimum wage stuff, 363 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: You're not going to worry too much about that. So 364 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 3: you're in a position to stay in a fight for 365 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: a guy like Big Mic up there in New England, for. 366 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: The guys that you really want. And let's just use 367 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: Big Mic an example. If a when you's a guy 368 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: you really want to go after, do you call the 369 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: agent write at noon on day one and give him 370 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: your all and best offer to try to blow him 371 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: away and get him right away, or do you play 372 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: the type of negotiation game you were talking about where 373 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: you kind of go back and forth with the agent 374 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. 375 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: Well, I make my offer to him so he knows 376 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 3: I'm serious, and I'd love to sign him on day one. 377 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: We all know that there's going to be a flurry 378 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: of signings. Most of them are overpriced, yep. But if 379 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 3: you need you need two guards. So this guy solves 380 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: a lot of things for you. I'll make him my offer, 381 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: but I don't use the word final because because once 382 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: it gets one more than he doesn't even call you back. 383 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 3: So I want I want in on Mike, you know, 384 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: and I'm going to make a great offer. I'm not 385 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 3: going to make a naive offer that's a low ball, 386 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: because I want to see if I can steal them. 387 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: If you have a player or two that you are 388 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 3: committed that you want, get in on it and let 389 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 3: them know you're serious. And and then I will say this. 390 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: You learn this the hard way in this business. It's 391 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: not so much the flexibility of the dollars. It's the 392 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 3: time if you put a great offer out there everywhere 393 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: Joe knows the market, you put the offer out there 394 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: that the kids should want to sign. You don't want 395 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 3: them shopping that deal. So it's like, hey, it's it's 396 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: Monday morning. We want big Mike. I told you at 397 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 3: the combine that we're interested in Mike. You know, those 398 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 3: conversations happened with everybody, and now we're up to the offer. 399 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: I'm not going to let you take that offer and 400 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 3: shop it for three days. No, that's this is all 401 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 3: rough because I'm going to say the Look, he's our 402 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 3: first choice, but I can't afford to lose him by 403 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: Wednesday or Thursday. And now the second and the third 404 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 3: choices are gone too, So a little bit of a 405 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 3: time limit would be advisable. 406 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: Giant fans Level Winner. It's why they love Citizens named 407 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 1: a twenty twenty two best bank in the US. Buy 408 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: who else? The banker as the official bank of the 409 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: Giants and sponsor of the Giants. Little podcast Citizens is 410 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: made ready for fans of Big Blue. Learn more at 411 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: Citizens bank dot com. Yeah. I'll dig into the guard 412 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: market in a second. Pat, But you mentioned the combine 413 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: and all these conversations that happen. It's not tampering, it's 414 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: just conversations. How much of an idea do these gms 415 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: have of what the market on these players is going 416 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: to be when this bidding process kind of starts on Monday. 417 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: Based on talking to these agents before this period begins, 418 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: they know. 419 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: And then and so there's other thing setting the market 420 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 3: to John, like I talk to Kevin Dotson yesterday at 421 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 3: three thirty. 422 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: You might have been listening. 423 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard it. 424 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, and he said, yeah, you know, I don't know 425 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: if I want to play in the cold. He got 426 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: his deal done almost as he hung up the phone, 427 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: So that was great. 428 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: We'll talk to him again today hopefully. 429 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 3: But three years, forty eight million, thirty two million guarantee. 430 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 3: That looks like the framework. So is that is that 431 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: the benchmark for big mic? Did Kevin Dotson deal set 432 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 3: the market? Probably? It's now the negotiable item that you 433 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 3: can talk around this negotiation with Kevin's deal on the table, 434 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 3: and it either is you going to go above it 435 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 3: or try to do the same. But we know one thing, John, 436 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 3: you never really go below him anymore. So I did 437 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: Kevin set the market for guards? 438 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: What are the guard I know Robert Hunt will be 439 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: another guard I think is kind of at the top 440 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: of the market. What are the guards in that group? 441 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: Do you like that the giants can't get a couple 442 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: of those guys at the top that you might like 443 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: his fallback position that could be steady starters for you. 444 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: Well, I like Robert Hunt. 445 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: I even like Connor Williams, who played Garden Dallas before 446 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: he went to center. So what do I like about them? 447 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 3: They're good players, They're high on my little list as well. 448 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 3: But they're all still on a team that's still over 449 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: the cap, who's still trying to do their quarterback, who 450 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: still wants to bring Wilkins back, So you know they're vulnerable. 451 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: The Miami Dolphins. 452 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: So there's a team I wouldn't mind competing against because 453 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 3: with forty one million in cast space, I can flush 454 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: them out. Those two guys I like. Now, who else 455 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 3: do I like in this whole thing? Not many, so 456 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: it gets a little it falls off. I do like 457 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 3: Jonah Jackson a bit. Do I like Andres Pete? All 458 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: those guys in your thirties, I had rule them all out. 459 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: About Damian Lewis from Seattle, what are your thoughts on him? 460 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? I like d You know, I spent a lot 461 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: of time in Seattle when Pete was the head coach, 462 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 3: who's still very close friends. I've got a chance to 463 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 3: watch them practice. Pete liked them, but I definitely would 464 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 3: have a budget line with him. It wouldn't be the 465 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: same as Big Mike, No way would it be that 466 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 3: so me. Nope, not even Dalton Reisner. I'm just looking 467 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: at my list down the thing, John Runyon the low 468 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 3: price guy. 469 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: So if I have to fall back. 470 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 3: If I get to a certain point, four or five 471 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: guys into this, I'm just turning to the draft. 472 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: No, I'm with you, and I think will win you 473 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense because he can be your 474 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: right tackle insurance then too, if if Evan Neil doesn't 475 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: work out at that spot as he's played there in 476 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: New England too. 477 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm willing to pay extra for him. 478 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I me and no one's listened to me here, 479 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: but I happen to agree with you. Pat two other 480 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: needs in the off season. I want to get to 481 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: a corner and pass rusher. I think Pat right now, 482 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: Zizos the largest hasn't been able to stay healthy, so 483 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: they need someone across from Kaevon Thibadau and Shane Bowen's 484 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: scheme to win one on one and rush the quarterback. 485 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: And then if Jackson doesn't come back you mentioned it previously, 486 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna need another outside corner. I think they might 487 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: even need a slot guy as well, depending on what 488 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: they think of Cordell flot So what do you think 489 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: of those two groups in free agency? 490 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know what you have in o'dourra and if 491 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: Ar Graden says, he's reasonably stacked. Now, when I did 492 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 3: this the pro personnel part, I had a board in 493 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: my off just like a draft board. 494 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: It was a pro board. 495 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: And what was on the pro board all the free 496 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: agents in the color blue. Then the guys in red 497 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: were the salary cap casualty guys that are coming onto 498 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 3: the list pretty quickly, and in yellow where are guys? 499 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 2: So I could stack my players up. 500 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 3: And so when I the head coach, walked in my office, 501 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 3: he'd say, what do you think here? I said, well, 502 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: between the cap casualties and the free agent guys, we 503 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: have four guys better than the Dory Jackson as an example. 504 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: And that's just hypothetical. I'm not talking about the story 505 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: that way really. 506 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 3: So we gotta take a shot, then, yeah, we can 507 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: if we want, and you know, go after one or 508 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 3: two of them. I don't like to negotiate with two 509 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: guys at a time. I think it is kind of misleading, 510 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: so I wouldn't do it. 511 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 2: Fuller. 512 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 3: I talk to Fuller, I'm going to rule out all 513 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: the And I like Gilmore, but he's thirty three. 514 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 2: Forget it. 515 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: Anymore's thirty not doing that. Sean Murphy Bunting twenty seven. 516 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 3: I might have a grade on him as an example. 517 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: I remember Shane Bowen coached him in Tennessee along with Fulton, 518 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: so I wonder if those connections might help too. 519 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, they first off, coach intel. Coaches generally like to 520 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 3: bring in their guys that they've had before. That doesn't 521 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: mean it's always a good idea. And I used to 522 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: say to them in an argumentative way, just because he 523 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 3: knows the system doesn't mean he's better than what we have. 524 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: Teach the best guy the system, but a lot of 525 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: coaches and I get it. I get there living in 526 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 3: a short term world. But I think those are the 527 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: kind of guys i'd be talking to. And now here 528 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 3: come the cuts, And you wonder if any of these 529 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: guys will interest you. Dante Jackson's twenty eight years old, 530 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 3: Zavian Howard another guy from Miami, but he's gonna think 531 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 3: he's gonna make a lot of money. To Davious Wide 532 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 3: if he's healthy. You might be able to find a 533 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 3: guy or two in there, and there's gonna be more cuts. 534 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 3: Go look at the five or six teams that are 535 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: gonna be over the cap by tonight. They still got 536 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: the weekend to clean this up. But you can look 537 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 3: at their corner population and figure out who they're gonna 538 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 3: have to cut. 539 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: You might be waiting on somebody right now. 540 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And then it's actually a pretty thick pass rusher class, 541 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: I think, pat usually you don't get this at pass 542 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: rusher because usually teams will resign their guys. And the 543 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: one guy that intrigues me, I like to get your 544 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 1: take on Bryce Huff, who's kind of been a bit 545 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: bit of a situational designated a pass rusher for the Jets. 546 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: Not great against the run, but when he rushes the passer, 547 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: he's darn good. And then you have Daniel Hunter at 548 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: the top, who giants defensive line codes Andrea Patterson had 549 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, which is interesting. He's been a super productive player. 550 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: Your thoughts on the overall pass rushing class. 551 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he can go get one, and it's 552 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 3: great to get one opposite Thibodeaux at this point, I'm 553 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 3: glad he didn't mention Chase Young. 554 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: I would not be interested in him. 555 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: The medicals on him, I hear are could be problematic. 556 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he just hasn't produced to the level I 557 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: like Clown. 558 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: He's over thirty, Floyd's over thirty, Autry's over thirty, Grahams 559 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 3: over thirty, and get them all out of the equation. 560 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: I'm intrigued by a couple of guys though. 561 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: Hunter of course is the big money guy, and you're 562 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: gonna have to pay him if you go that far. 563 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 3: And I don't know that you can justify that because 564 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: I think your man Thibodeau's coming up on his option 565 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 3: here next year, so you've got to be thinking about 566 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 3: those things. 567 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: I'm a little bit interested in Van Ginkel. The price 568 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 2: might be right. He's a very smart, interesting guy. I 569 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 2: would talk about him. 570 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 3: But I do like Huff your man, mister Huff situational 571 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 3: player find but the guy can rush the passer, up 572 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: his play percentage by ten percent. You might get to 573 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: ten sacks on the guy. So I would love a 574 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 3: guy like that. Those are the kind of things that 575 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: I agree totally with you about going after You love. 576 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 4: Turf, you're good at it, so you start a turf 577 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 4: buz business grows, your savings grow, become the most celebrated 578 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 4: name in turf? Are you ready for all that life brings? 579 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: All? Right, final question, Pat, and thank you very much 580 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: for the time. I know this is busy time of 581 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 1: year for you. How do you decide what guys are 582 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: the second wave of free agency? Guys that don't go 583 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: and are agreeing to terms in these first three days 584 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: before the league even starts, that maybe aren't going to 585 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: sign until next Monday, the following Tuesday, the following Wednesday. 586 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: How do you figure out as a GM which guys 587 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: are the guys that you can kind of let the 588 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: market play out, You wait on them, and then you 589 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: try to get them at the price that you want 590 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: to get them at. 591 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think let's see these inside linebackers. We haven't 592 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: talked about them at all. I think Frankie Lufhu's going 593 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 3: to get stuff right away, and Patrick Queen's going to 594 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 3: get stuff right away, and they could be gone maybe 595 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 3: day four or day three somewhere. No inside linebacker is 596 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 3: an interesting world. But all I tell people is, do 597 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: you study the teams that were in the Super Bowl? 598 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 2: How do they get to the Super Bowl? 599 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 3: Study their roster and what do you find out about 600 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 3: those teams, if you include Baltimore with Kansas City and 601 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: San Francisco, I'll give you one of the common denominators 602 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: all three. They're terrific at inside linebacker, and they didn't 603 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: lose sight of the importance of it. So let the 604 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: first two go because you have other priorities, and then 605 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 3: you might be looking at somebody else, like the kid 606 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 3: in Tennessee as Ease. You might be looking at him. 607 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 3: I'm not a big Devin White fan. You might be 608 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 3: looking at Josie Jewel. He just makes it under the 609 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 3: thirty line, Josh Uch. Those kind of guys, Yeah, you know. 610 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: So those you'll know because the flurry in the first 611 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 3: couple of days. When I spent one offseason with Belichick, 612 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: it was awesome. And he at the time, right up 613 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 3: till he did this step on Gilmour deal, he never 614 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: jumped into the first ten days of free agency. He 615 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: just didn't do it, and he was patient. He held 616 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 3: his water and he didn't He just waited it out, 617 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 3: and come week two he started really recruiting guys, and 618 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: he loved talking to guys who got burned by not 619 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: getting the big deal they were hoping for. I'll say 620 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 3: this I almost every veteran I talked to, and if 621 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: you were listening yesterday, I was talking to our the 622 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 3: lineman from the RAMS. I always ask him the same 623 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 3: question because I know the answer. I'm just waiting to 624 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 3: tell have them tell me the truth. Fifty percent of 625 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 3: the guys in free agency don't want to be there. 626 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: They don't like it. 627 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: They don't like the anxiety that comes with it, they 628 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 3: don't like the pressure at home from their wife about it. 629 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: They really don't like it. 630 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 3: And when you get a guy like that who's pretty 631 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: good and he was nervous, and all of a sudden 632 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: he didn't get hit for the contract in the first 633 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: five or six days, he's really ready to take a deal. 634 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: So that's how late, that's how deals come down. 635 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: Pac Carwin, former NFL general manager, host of Moving the 636 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: Chains with Jim Miller, Monday through Friday three to seven 637 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: pm on Serious XMNFL Radio Channel eighty eight. Pack Carwin, 638 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: this was great. I always love to catch up with 639 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: you with the combine pad and talking football with you. 640 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for the time, And is anything else 641 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: you want to tell the folks about before we say goodbye? 642 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: The floor is yours? 643 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 3: Good you know people have taken shots at the Giants, 644 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 3: and look, I work for the Jets, but I understand 645 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 3: the Giants. I believe in your head, Coach, I believe 646 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 3: in your gm They're going to fix this thing and 647 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: get right back in this race because the Giants have 648 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 3: a history of doing it, and these guys will play 649 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: to the history of this organization and get this thing rolling. 650 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: It might take two years, but it's going to happen. 651 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: That good stuff, my friend. We'll talk soon, all right, man, 652 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: Pack Carwin Serix x MNFL Radio. Another Giants little podcast 653 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: coming your way.