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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff.

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Speaker 2: One ever told you perfection if I heard you? And

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Speaker 2: once again we are so happy to be joined by friend, colleague, talented,

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Speaker 2: tenacious Bridget Todd.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Bridget Oh, I got the double G. I love

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Speaker 3: the alliteration and that is impressive.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: We always love having you. Thank you for acknowledgment of

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Speaker 2: my alliteration.

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Speaker 1: I try.

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Speaker 2: How have you been, Bridget.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 3: Right before we got on, I'm like knee deep in

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Speaker 3: do you all watch Love Island? I'm like knee deep

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Speaker 3: in Love Island Takes? So I'm my head is like

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Speaker 3: do you know when you watch way too much TikTok

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Speaker 3: or way too much short form content about one subject

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Speaker 3: and then it's like all you can think and you're

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Speaker 3: kind of it's almost like a sugar high.

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Speaker 1: That's I'm in.

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Speaker 3: That's so if I seem out of sorts, I've been

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Speaker 3: watching NonStop Love Island and Love Island Takes.

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Speaker 4: I actually made mention to Annie that I have never

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Speaker 4: watched this show. We actually were talking about like slurs

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Speaker 4: and all these things, and I'm sure you know we're

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Speaker 4: talking about, but I'm being fed Love Island content against

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Speaker 4: my will, much like a lot of other stuff, Like

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Speaker 4: I have never in my life ever watched this show

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Speaker 4: to the point that I really thought it was just

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Speaker 4: a spoof like they talked about in thirty Rock, you know,

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Speaker 4: Milf Island that I was like, is this a thing? So,

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Speaker 4: but like TikTok is like, no, you will definitely enjoy this.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I definitely don't want to be a part

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Speaker 4: of this because I am very nervous and this makes

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Speaker 4: me really sad in terms of like why are men

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Speaker 4: so bad?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not, especially if you haven't seen it.

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Speaker 3: It's not like this like this was a bad season,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's a season that illustrates how social

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Speaker 3: media has really impacted reality TV and right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: it's not just one castmate who was thrown off for

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Speaker 3: using an anti Asian slur. Another castmate was not thrown off,

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Speaker 3: but was revealed to have made like an ain't a

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Speaker 3: skit making fun of Asians.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's interesting. I was like, Wow, what are

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Speaker 1: the odds two different people on the show, What are

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Speaker 1: the odds?

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Speaker 4: Well, I feel like that's another episode that we should

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Speaker 4: talk about reality TV and social media, so you know

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna put that on your plate too.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is something I mean.

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Speaker 3: I make no apologies for the fact that I watched

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Speaker 3: way too much reality TV, so that is very much

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Speaker 3: in my wheelhouse.

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Speaker 4: When I was on cable TV, I definitely had a

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Speaker 4: lot of Bravo shows come up on my world. I mean,

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Speaker 4: million Dollar Matchmaker. I don't know why why I watched that.

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Speaker 4: There was no reason for me to watch that. I

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Speaker 4: was not gonna be on that show, but yet I

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Speaker 4: was fascinated.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 3: I don't know where Patti Stanger is now the million

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Speaker 3: Dollar Matchmaker, but I did enjoy her show quite a bit.

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Speaker 4: Can't help it anyway.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, back to no Oh, we should definitely come back

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Speaker 2: and talk about that. I would love to. I will

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Speaker 2: share my story of when I was on Impossible Kitchen

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Speaker 2: and didn't realize I was on the like before part

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Speaker 2: where I was supposed to be shocked.

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Speaker 1: What is Impossible Kitchen?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's just like a you know, they go in

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Speaker 2: and they find a restaurant that's terrible. I'm probably it's

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Speaker 2: a restaurant impossible. Sorry, that's I got the title wrong.

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Speaker 2: That probably helps you go in and the restaurant's terrible

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Speaker 2: and the guy tries to fix it, but they bring

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Speaker 2: in people to taste the restaurant's food before and after,

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Speaker 2: so you're supposed to be like this is so gross,

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Speaker 2: and then after like, oh wow, improvement. But I was

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Speaker 2: a college kid at the time, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is free fried chicken.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: It tastes great. No issues here unless raw. Thank you

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Speaker 1: my gosh.

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Speaker 3: This is such a non sequentar and feel feel free

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Speaker 3: to like not include this in the show.

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Speaker 1: But here where I live in Ice live in at

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Speaker 1: a park, Maryland, and there.

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Speaker 3: Was a very popular bar called Pirate's Tavern that was

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Speaker 3: a pirate theme bar that like when I.

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Speaker 1: Lived in Maryland, this we would you would. The food

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Speaker 1: was terrible.

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Speaker 3: I got food poisoning there multiple times, but like you

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Speaker 3: would go for a laugh because the staff dressed pirate.

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Speaker 3: The owner clearly really cared a lot about pirate like

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Speaker 3: they like they had a pirate band, and one of

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Speaker 3: the songs that the pirate band would perform was the

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Speaker 3: free Credit Report dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Song, you know, the pirate version.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this place was wild, and it was on the

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Speaker 3: show Bar Rescue where that guy I don't know his name,

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Speaker 3: he's a huge trumper, but I forget his name. He

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Speaker 3: comes in and he tells them what's wrong with it,

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Speaker 3: and his feedback was to not make it pirate. He

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, you're in a downtown corporate environment, you

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Speaker 3: should make the theme be corporate. So the theme they

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Speaker 3: turned it from a pirate bar into like almost like

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Speaker 3: a Dilbert theme bar, and it totally tanked it. It

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Speaker 3: turned into this huge local scandal where the pirates were

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Speaker 3: like burning an effigy of this guy, like it was wild.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm sharing this. It's just a

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Speaker 1: story that I love.

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Speaker 4: That's amazing. Well that's the reality of reality TV. Like

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Speaker 4: you think it's all going well, and the way they

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Speaker 4: were like no, definitely, this is the worst idea, and

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Speaker 4: then they fixed it and it comes back to me like, no,

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Speaker 4: this is this is worse. Like I love the renovation

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Speaker 4: shows where the people come in after the fix and

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Speaker 4: they're like, what the hell did you do in my place?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: I hate it, no, but my god, but this is

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Speaker 1: the worst and I hate it. Samantha. You like, where

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Speaker 1: were the trading spaces there?

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Speaker 3: Literally it would be like we glued straw to the

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Speaker 3: walls of your living room, or like we put your

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Speaker 3: furniture on the ceiling to make it upside down room.

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Speaker 3: These are not exaggerations. These things actually happened on the show.

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Speaker 3: It was you need to find it on YouTube cause

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Speaker 3: you would.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm gonna have to search for those because they

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Speaker 4: would make me happy.

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Speaker 2: I have a relative who was on I don't know

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Speaker 2: if it was that show, but was on some kind

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Speaker 2: of We're going to go in and fix up your place,

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Speaker 2: and I think she actually lived in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: And they painted her walls pink and then got a

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Speaker 2: paintball gun with like lime green balls and shot the

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Speaker 2: wall so it had these like green polka dots on it.

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Speaker 1: She was distructed.

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Speaker 2: She was not.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh, yeah, you're on this show. We had

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Speaker 3: a crew come in and just destroy your home. Aren't

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Speaker 3: you so happy? And then you're on camera so you

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Speaker 3: can't really be like, you can't have the reaction that

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Speaker 3: you probably want to have, and you're from restrain O.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, staring at everybody.

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Speaker 1: Incredible, Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, well, tabling that for a future episode.

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Speaker 1: Had a rabbit hole. I'm sorry, no, I actually it

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Speaker 1: is my fault.

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Speaker 4: I do this often, but yeah, keep going to a

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Speaker 4: different the actual.

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Speaker 2: The actual thing that we're talking about, which might be

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Speaker 2: it might give you the same sensations it kind of

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Speaker 2: does walking into your old home and being like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: this is not really where I'm belonging anymore. What's going

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Speaker 2: on here? At least at the superficial I don't know

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Speaker 2: much about this level. So Bridget, what are we talking

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Speaker 2: about today?

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Speaker 1: Today?

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Speaker 3: We are talking about also masterfult segue there, Annie, you're

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Speaker 3: really a pro. Today we are talking about the intersection

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Speaker 3: of ai chatchyput and pregnancy. This actually was a was

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Speaker 3: a story that was flagged to me by a longtime

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Speaker 3: Sminty listener, Susie Susie to go on social media. If

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Speaker 3: you're listening, Hey Susie, thanks for flagging this because it

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Speaker 3: was super interesting.

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Speaker 2: Right, thank you.

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Speaker 4: I'm very grateful that Bridget you took this because as

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Speaker 4: soon as we looked at this headline, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: dear God, yeah, I don't know what to do with this.

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Speaker 4: I'm alla wait for a second, I let this do.

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Speaker 4: And then I was like, of course, bridges on top

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Speaker 4: of this even better.

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Speaker 3: It's a pretty weird topic. So Susie flagged this piece

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Speaker 3: in Rolling Stone called chat gpt is helping women get pregnant,

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Speaker 3: which sounds like a.

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Speaker 1: Very well concept.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times when I'm reporting on women and AI,

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Speaker 3: it's because AI is being used to do something absolutely

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Speaker 3: horrifying to women, like AI new toify apps, or like

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Speaker 3: AI non consensual deep fakes, things like that. So it

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Speaker 3: actually was nice to spend a little bit of time

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Speaker 3: thinking about that sort of non completely horrifying, though interesting

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Speaker 3: and maybe unexpected use cases for the way AI is

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Speaker 3: showing up for folks like pregnancy. So in this piece,

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Speaker 3: I'll give you just some brief summary in Rolling Stone

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Speaker 3: by Fortessa Latifi. Basically, the piece argues that people who

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Speaker 3: are hoping to become pregnant are turning to the chatbot

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Speaker 3: chatjit bt for advice, tips and informations during their pregnancy journeys,

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Speaker 3: and importantly, they are actually changing their conception plans based

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Speaker 3: on whatever advice chat jipt gives them. They're even taking

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Speaker 3: it so far as to like asking chat to be

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Speaker 3: tita psychically channel their future child.

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Speaker 1: And even though there are lots.

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Speaker 3: Of privacy concerns about this kind of sensitive use case,

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Speaker 3: which we'll talk.

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Speaker 1: About they're really getting benefit out of this.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of questions I have in this conversation,

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Speaker 4: but you know, I feel like the last time you

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Speaker 4: were here, we definitely hit onto how people were using

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Speaker 4: AI to propose. Essentially they've got you know, that dude

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Speaker 4: proposed to their AI bought instead of his girlfriend, which

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Speaker 4: is one conversation. And then like, I've definitely read a

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Speaker 4: lot of headlines about people using it for therapy, essentially

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Speaker 4: turning to these chatbots to be like help me in

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Speaker 4: these situations, which is both okay, I like at least

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Speaker 4: they're seeking something, but it's also concerning because Internet, right.

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Speaker 1: You really summarized it quite well.

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Speaker 3: You know, when people report using AI for things like therapy,

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Speaker 3: it's sort of I mean, I feel too bays about it.

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Speaker 3: On the one hand, therapy can be expensive, it can

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Speaker 3: be inaccessible for a lot of folks, and so I'm

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Speaker 3: happy that there are people are finding ways to get

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Speaker 3: around that. However, big however, we know a lot about

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Speaker 3: how AI works, and we've seen reports of AI really

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Speaker 3: presenting some challenges with people who are really struggling. Right, So,

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Speaker 3: if you're struggling with things like mania or delusion, AI

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Speaker 3: is the last place you should be going to find

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Speaker 3: comfort because we know that AI has a tendency to

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Speaker 3: just spit back what you want to hear. There are

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Speaker 3: pretty shocking reports of people, you know, experiencing worsening mania

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Speaker 3: and delusions because of their interactions with AI.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention all of the like privacy stuff and

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Speaker 1: that we'll get into, but like, so it is. And

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Speaker 1: I think that in the.

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Speaker 3: Conversation about the role that chatbots like chat tipt can

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Speaker 3: play in pregnancy is the very same thing, right, where yes,

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Speaker 3: I am happy that people who are trying to get pregnant,

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Speaker 3: who are embarking on this sometimes incredibly fraught, complicated, anxiety

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Speaker 3: inducing journey, have a resource that they self report makes

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Speaker 3: them feel better. But that doesn't mean that resource is

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Speaker 3: not without concerns that we shouldn't really understand in a

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Speaker 3: clear eyed way, right.

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Speaker 4: And I guess in actuality when it comes to asking questions,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's become a descriptor Google this if you

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Speaker 4: want information. So we've always kind of turned to the

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Speaker 4: Internet and now a lot of like Google in itself,

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Speaker 4: And I keep saying that I'm not trying to aim

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Speaker 4: at Google, but that they have AI as the first topic,

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Speaker 4: like first suggested, this is what may be what you

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Speaker 4: looking for and gives you that summary. So it is

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Speaker 4: not too big of a stretch that we're turning from

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Speaker 4: internet to chatbot, right or and.

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Speaker 3: Like it kind of makes sense when you think about it,

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Speaker 3: because when you are experiencing some sort of a symptom

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Speaker 3: or you have a question, the first place most people

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Speaker 3: go to is the internet, right, and so that's where

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Speaker 3: you would be going to to answer these questions. But

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Speaker 3: pregnancy Internet can be confusing. There's a ton of information.

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Speaker 3: A lot of that information, as you just astutely pointed out,

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Speaker 3: SAM is being filtered through AI if you're googling, and

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Speaker 3: then even if you go to sites that are kind

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Speaker 3: of human curated, like message boards like the Bump or

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Speaker 3: what to Expect, that can be a little bit confusing.

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Speaker 1: I just checked them out.

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Speaker 3: I'm not pregnant, but like I went to prepare for

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Speaker 3: this episode, I went to look at some of them,

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Speaker 3: and even that was confusing. There they're full of acronyms

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Speaker 3: like FtM, do you guys know what that means? That's

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Speaker 3: first time mom or TCC trying to conceive, and so

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Speaker 3: it can be confusing to use the Internet to answer

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Speaker 3: questions about fertility and pregnancy and health just in general.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, it makes sense that chat ept might

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Speaker 3: be easier to navigate, It might be easier to just

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Speaker 3: ask a question, to have a chatbot's bit a clear

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Speaker 3: answer back at you. That that does make sense to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with what Samantha was saying.

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Speaker 2: I used to joke that Google is my therapist because

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Speaker 2: I just have a question and I need it answered.

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Speaker 2: Can you just please give me an answer? And especially

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Speaker 2: if there's medical stuff involved, or something like pregnancy, where

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Speaker 2: there is a lot of confusion, like should I go

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Speaker 2: to the hospital? House? Serious? Is this?

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Speaker 4: What is this?

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Speaker 2: Don't laugh at me, Samantha, I did go to the hospital,

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Speaker 2: but you know, but it is because unfortunately, in our system,

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Speaker 2: it's very expensive to go to the hospital. So you

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Speaker 2: want some thing something to give you the answer of

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Speaker 2: am I okay, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: What do I need to do?

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Speaker 2: And there still is so much misinformation and misconception and

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Speaker 2: just not a lot of information about pregnancy.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it's just there. It's hard to access reliable

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Speaker 3: information about pregnancy, especially now where I mean, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to get political, but we have people in charge

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Speaker 3: of you know, government organizations that are essensibly there to

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Speaker 3: help us get information about our health, who might not

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Speaker 3: be super trustworthy or informed, right, And so we have

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Speaker 3: influencers who get lots and lots of platforms on social

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Speaker 3: media who might not know what they're talking about. So

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Speaker 3: I think, especially now, the Internet can be a difficult

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Speaker 3: place for people to find clear, reliable, accurate information to

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Speaker 3: help them make decisions about their bodies and their health.

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Speaker 3: It just is the reality of trying to find information

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Speaker 3: and our information ecosystem. In twenty twenty five, and in

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Speaker 3: the piece, the journalist spoke to a woman who used

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Speaker 3: chatjet BT on her pregnancy journey, who said, I was

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Speaker 3: able to ask my dumb questions in a bunch of

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Speaker 3: different ways that helped me understand the science, which helped

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Speaker 3: me to have a baby. I found understanding the science

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Speaker 3: of conception way easier this way than just navigating through

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Speaker 3: books and the crappy articles that Google gives you these days.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so it's.

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Speaker 3: Exactly what you were saying, that it can just be

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Speaker 3: hard to navigate and even I mean, I think it

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Speaker 3: really says something about our information ecosystem that chatjet BT,

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Speaker 3: a platform that we know is prone to misinformation hallucinations,

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Speaker 3: which is just like inaccurate facts that people are like, well,

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Speaker 3: that's still better than just like me up to my

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Speaker 3: own devices on the internet these.

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Speaker 1: Days, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, sometimes you just want an answer, even if

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Speaker 2: you know this might not be correct, But I just

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Speaker 2: really want things some kind of comfort or some kind

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Speaker 2: of this is what I should do, some kind of

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Speaker 2: guide map.

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Speaker 4: Right, I mean definitely, I see like the going back

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Speaker 4: and forth and asking different ways because just trying to

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Speaker 4: google my own symptoms and like forgetting things that I

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Speaker 4: would sell to the doctor that I wouldn't tell the

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Speaker 4: doctor and coming back and be like, oh but I

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Speaker 4: forgot to add this. I forgot to add this. So

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Speaker 4: when like that person was talking about asking several different ways,

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Speaker 4: that makes sense because you don't have the time to

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Speaker 4: or the doctor doesn't have the time for you to

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Speaker 4: send them. Oh and also this and also this and also.

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Speaker 3: This, Yeah, and exactly, so that is exactly what the

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Speaker 3: research And not only is it what the research suggests,

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Speaker 3: but it's also what people who use AI to answer

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Speaker 3: their medical questions are self reporting, because you might be

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Speaker 3: thinking like why on Earth with someone turned to chat

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Speaker 3: gpt for medical advice, But people self report feeling more

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Speaker 3: open when they're asking AI a medical question as opposed

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Speaker 3: to a human doctor. In twenty twenty three, a study

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Speaker 3: called comparing physician and artificial intelligence chatbot responses to patient

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Speaker 3: questions posted to a public social media forum actually found

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Speaker 3: that people rated chat sjat BT higher than human doctors

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Speaker 3: when it came to things like being empathetic, and actually

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Speaker 3: the results were like not even close. For nearly eighty

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Speaker 3: percent of the answers. Chat sheet BT was considered better

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Speaker 3: than the physicians. Specifically, when it came to giving good

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Speaker 3: or very good quality answers, chat SHEETPT received high ratings

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Speaker 3: for seventy eight percent of responses, while physicians only did

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Speaker 3: so for twenty two percent of responses. And when it

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Speaker 3: came to giving empathetic or very empathetic answers, chat sheep

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Speaker 3: BT scored forty five percent and human physicians four point

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Speaker 3: six percent. Now a few important caveats about this study. Importantly,

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Speaker 3: this particular study was not designed to answer two key questions.

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Speaker 3: Do AI responses offer accurate medical information and improve patient

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Speaker 3: health while also avoiding confusion?

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Speaker 1: Or harm. The study did not answer that question, and

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Speaker 1: will patients accept that questions they pose to their doctor

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Speaker 1: might be answered by a butt The study also did

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Speaker 1: not look at that question. But another thing to.

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Speaker 3: Note is that chatjeet bt gave much longer answers than

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Speaker 3: the human physicians. Human physicians averaged fifty two word answers,

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Speaker 3: while chat cheat BT gave two hundred and eleven word answers.

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Speaker 3: Kind of goes back to what you were saying, like,

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Speaker 3: that's probably because human doctors are busy, and chatcheat BT

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Speaker 3: has all the time in the world for you to

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Speaker 3: ask the question a thousand different ways, and you know

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Speaker 3: it's not going to quote judge you because it's not human.

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Speaker 3: Where it's like, you don't want to waste a human

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Speaker 3: doctor's time. Maybe if you're a woman or a marginalized person,

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Speaker 3: you might be thinking like, oh, I don't want this

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Speaker 3: doctor to get some idea in their head about me,

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Speaker 3: about what kind of person I am, if I'm like

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Speaker 3: annoying or like thinking that I'm a hypochondriac or some

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Speaker 3: sort of a nuisance patient. It sucks that these are

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Speaker 3: the kind of questions that oftentimes women have to have

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Speaker 3: in their head when they're speaking to a human doctor.

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Speaker 3: When you're talking to AI, you don't necessarily feel that

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Speaker 3: you have to keep that in mind because the AI

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Speaker 3: has all the time in the world to answer your

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Speaker 3: questions one hundred different ways.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: I will throw out there too again because Bridget, as

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Speaker 4: you know, Annie and I have recently decided to be

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Speaker 4: adults and see doctors or of these attempt to see

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Speaker 4: doctors and medical professionals like that. My experience even with

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Speaker 4: one specific doctor, and it was telemedicine, and she wasn't

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Speaker 4: based out of Atlanta, but it was the quickest I

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Speaker 4: could get That was kind of like forty five minutes

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Speaker 4: outside of Atlanta. I don't know. She was googling half

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Speaker 4: the answers. I was asking, are you kidding? And she

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Speaker 4: told me that I could hear googling and then she

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Speaker 4: would call it to the receptionist and be like, can

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Speaker 4: you look up this? And they were just giving me

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Speaker 4: information that I had already looked up myself. But I

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Speaker 4: didn't want to be a jerk and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I was hoping to oh cool going back to much

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Speaker 4: at pot like it literally was.

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Speaker 1: One of those moments, well, what's funny?

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Speaker 3: So my late mother, god rest her soul, was a physician.

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Speaker 3: And the thing I remember a lot about her experience

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Speaker 3: as a physician was so many medical books. When I

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Speaker 3: would go in, when I would visit her at her office,

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Speaker 3: she was always looking at a medical book. And so I,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not a doctor, so like people who

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Speaker 3: are doctors can write in but like, I almost wonder

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Speaker 3: if your doctor googling.

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Speaker 1: It is the twenty twenty five version of my mom

404
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Speaker 1: going to.

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Speaker 3: A bug, right, but owning and validating that it doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel great to see your doctor googling when you're like,

407
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Speaker 3: why I could have done that, right?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was really one of those funny moments

409
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Speaker 4: because she was giving me information that I already had

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Speaker 4: looked up, but I decided to go see an in

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Speaker 4: person doctor because I'm like, I don't need to do

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Speaker 4: this to myself. Blah blah blah. Also need references because

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Speaker 4: you know how the system works. But it just made

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Speaker 4: me laugh because I definitely understand they have to keep

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Speaker 4: up with the times. I would rather you be a

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Speaker 4: doctor who often relearns or goes back to learn about

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Speaker 4: the new things, new procedures, new ways, because we know

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Speaker 4: as time goes hopefully there are better ways to do things,

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Speaker 4: safer ways to do things, so that is an automatic.

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Speaker 4: Of course we want we want that to occur. But

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Speaker 4: it was really really uh ironic. I guess that I

422
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Speaker 4: was in there were like, no, but I already but

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Speaker 4: that this is a good okay, cool, you know, like

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Speaker 4: it was one of those moments watching her doing this,

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Speaker 4: as well as knowing that a lot of this was

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Speaker 4: getting through the Ai Gemini, which is again not a ponsor,

427
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Speaker 4: was part of the reason she was giving me some

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Speaker 4: of the answers because I could read what she was saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I will I have this big caveat,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I don't trust jem and I Jimi will have you

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Speaker 3: put in glue in your pizza recipe and telling you

433
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Speaker 3: all kinds of stuff. And what's funny is that not

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Speaker 3: not to like dunk on Google, but to dunk on

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Speaker 3: them a little bit. Yeah, Google search has I think

436
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Speaker 3: that people at Google would say this have gotten worse,

437
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Speaker 3: Like the version of Googles you and I are using

438
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five in July today is worse in

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Speaker 3: the version we were using just a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: Because of the way that they have really pushed forward

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Speaker 3: AI integration and have like really made some changes, and yeah,

442
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: I like, I think, And they actually talk about this

443
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 3: in the article that women who say they're using CHATCHYPT

444
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 3: and AI to help answer their fertility questions, they know

445
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,239
Speaker 3: that CHAT is prone to incorrect answers, and they say, like, well,

446
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 3: I know that, but I could be finding those same

447
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: incorrect answers even if I wasn't using AI, and that

448
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: it's prompting me to point me in the right direction

449
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: to find the actual answer myself. So even if I'm Micha,

450
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: well that doesn't sound right, it's giving me the opportunity

451
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 3: to like go look into myself and where I should

452
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 3: be looking, which I thought was interesting.

453
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 2: Another thing that Samantha and I have experienced in our

454
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: ongoing attempts to g to doctors is link the wait

455
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: times and honestly a real difficulty accessing healthcare once we

456
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: were actually trying to do it. And I can only

457
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: imagine when you're talking about people who are pregnant those

458
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: wait times are, especially if we've got your these abortions

459
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 2: laws and plays like all of these things, that.

460
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 3: That timing really really matters, absolutely so This actually comes

461
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 3: up in the piece too. If you're trying to get pregnant,

462
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: there's what's known as the two week wait, which is

463
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: the time between ovulation and either the sart of your

464
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: period or the confirmation of your pregnancy. And so the

465
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: journalist spoke to people who were trying to get pregnant

466
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: who would put their symptoms into chat sheet bt to

467
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 3: get a sense of like whether or not they more

468
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 3: align with pregnancy or starting your period, and they would

469
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: actually change up their behavior based on whatever chatget bt said.

470
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 3: And that this person lives in a rural part of

471
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: Michigan where she said, like, oh, it takes it might

472
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 3: take six months to even see a doctor, and so

473
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 3: chatgebt is just more accessible in this time sensitive use

474
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 3: case where it's like, you know, what's going to happen

475
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: in these next few days really matters.

476
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: Chatgebt is right there and accessible.

477
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: It might take six months of waiting to actually see

478
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 3: a doctor in real life, and so again a lot

479
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: of this does come down to the need to combat

480
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: accessibility issues for rural communities. So maybe you can't always

481
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 3: get to a doctor, or anybody who might not be

482
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: able to get to a doctor in a timely way

483
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: in real life.

484
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and going back to the amount of time a

485
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: physician might be able to spend with you recently, when

486
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 2: I was going when I was in the hospital, I

487
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: was shocked at how short of the time it was.

488
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: And I know they were busy, but I was like,

489
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: I didn't even get to finish like talking about what's

490
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: going on here, and you've moved on, and afterwards I

491
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: was kind of left with this sensation of I really

492
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: just want to talk to someone about this. And that

493
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: is something people have reported as well, right.

494
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I know how that feels.

495
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: Like my dad before his death was quite ill, and

496
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 3: so I was the person who was like in the

497
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 3: hospital with him and he was hospitalized for like a

498
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: very long time and essentially how.

499
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: It worked for in this hospital anyway, and then they

500
00:24:59,560 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: were great.

501
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 3: Don't want to I don't want to disparage them, but

502
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: like the nurses were always there and they were wonderful.

503
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 3: The team of doctors working with him would do their

504
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: rounds and so they would come by once a day,

505
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 3: usually in the morning, and like take a look at him.

506
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: And I kind of got the got the.

507
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 3: M with like any to be in the room if

508
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 3: I have questions and my father was very very ill,

509
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: and they would they would spend like maybe ten minutes.

510
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: Now I know people doc their doctors, they have a

511
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: whole hospital of sick people to see that they're who's

512
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: lives they are trying to save. So I'm not I'm

513
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 3: not belittling them, but it's it's this weird situation where

514
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: like even if they spent two.

515
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: Hours with me, that would not have been enough time.

516
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 3: Like like it's an emotional thing where like nothing they

517
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 3: could have done was going to be good enough, because

518
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: it's like, this is my opportunity to ask every question

519
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 3: I want and like I want you to fix my dad,

520
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: and you just come in with this like expectation that

521
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: no human doctor could meet, even a doctor with all

522
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: the time in the world, but especially a doctor who

523
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: has a million patients to see and they're they're trying

524
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 3: to save everybody's life, right like, And so I can

525
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 3: understand how AI would just create a different emotional dynamic

526
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: because it's it's true.

527
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, like human doctors don't have a ton of time.

528
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: They don't they don't get to spend a lot of

529
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: time with you, and the a matter of and I

530
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: guess I would say that like there is not and

531
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 3: there is not an amount of time that would feel

532
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 3: like enough time when you are a loved.

533
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: One is unwell.

534
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot too about how you know

535
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 4: we have a rotation of doctors too, that you have

536
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 4: to constantly repeat yourself so you never get the new

537
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 4: question out anyway, which I like. I know people who recently,

538
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 4: my father and my mother we had a whole like

539
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 4: six months today where they just kept going in and

540
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: out of the house, but like what.

541
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: Are we doing here?

542
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 4: But when we would be there for more than a

543
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 4: day or so, the fact that we had to like

544
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 4: go around and get a new a doctor or a

545
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 4: new and we know they have to go home, we

546
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 4: want them to be rested, but the frustration of having

547
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 4: to repeat the same things over and over again and

548
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 4: feeling like no one's listening when you're like, no, but

549
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 4: this is a really big concern and y'all not addressing it. Instead,

550
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 4: you're just looking at test results and not talking to us.

551
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: So what do we do here? I will be here

552
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: all day. Well, let me just say, like I know

553
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: exactly how you feel.

554
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: When my dad was hospitalized for a big chunk of that,

555
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 3: he was nonverbal, and so the only way that information

556
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: can be communicated was me saying it and.

557
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: Again, doctors should get to go home. I want them rested,

558
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: all of that.

559
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 3: But one of the things that made it very frustrating

560
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: for me was having to explain what was like a

561
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 3: very traumatic situation multiple times a day to multiple people,

562
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 3: multiple specialists.

563
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: It was like, yes, I'll just say yes, and it

564
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: really sucks, really and it's frustrating.

565
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 3: On top of the fact that you're like you're already

566
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: having a bad time, and it's like feeling like you

567
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: need to repeat yourself over and over and over again,

568
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: which you do. They need the information, they need to

569
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: hear the story a million times to understand, but yeah,

570
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: it does in those situations. It does not surprise me

571
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: that people would turn to AI when that feels so frustrating.

572
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 4: Right, and again, it kind of comes back to that

573
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 4: whole level of trying to find someone who can be

574
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 4: empathetic at a time of such deep anxiety and stress.

575
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: There's so much in this conversation when we talk about

576
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: bedside manner. I mean, that's definitely one of those big

577
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 4: conversations that comes up a lot. I've seen tiktoks about

578
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 4: it repeatedly about doctors and like people going after healthy

579
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 4: and professionals, not because they're not doing their job, but

580
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 4: because of the lack of empathy. It feels like even

581
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 4: though it's professionalism to be one thing for another, Like

582
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 4: there's this level of like needing someone to understand you

583
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 4: and that anxiety instead of just being dismissive of you

584
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: in so many ways, right, I can only imagine, especially

585
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 4: with pregnancy in general, the level of anxiety all the

586
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: like all of the horror stories, like I have chosen

587
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: to not have a child. One of the conversations that

588
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: was because I don't know my body well enough to

589
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: understand if I did try and something would go wrong,

590
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: how would I handle this? You know? And there's so

591
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: much to this in that level of again, like with

592
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 4: pregnant people trying to find people to understand that fear

593
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 4: and especially if it does happen, if something does happen

594
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: where you lose something that you were so excited about,

595
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: that level like in trying to figure out how to

596
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 4: get someone to hear you and understand you and at

597
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 4: least give you good advice, like not just be like

598
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry for your loss and walk away, you

599
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 4: know what I mean.

600
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And one of the way the article doesn't really

601
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: get into this, but when I was doing research, I

602
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: did find there's a subreddit called the Pregnancy after Loss

603
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: subreddit where so many people self report chat GPT doing

604
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 3: exactly that, just being the empathetic ear that they can

605
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: unload on. You know, these are people who have a

606
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: lot of understand toable anxieties about pregnancy after experiencing a

607
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: pregnancy loss, and chat Schipt has become like a trusted

608
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: that that trusted empathetic ear. One editor wrote, I used

609
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: it like a journal that talks back with my anxiety

610
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: about loss, and I have found it so helpful. I

611
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: needed to talk so much about the anxiety I was feeling,

612
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: more than I could ask my husband or friends to

613
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: listen to. And it was such a help to be

614
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: able to unload the chat Scheept as much as I needed.

615
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: And I think that's exactly what you're talking about, this

616
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 3: feeling of you know, it's it's good to have a

617
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: community when you're going through anything, pregnancy or any other

618
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: kind of tough medical thing. But I understand the feeling

619
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 3: of I've been venting to my friends to my husband,

620
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: to my doctor, so much. But I have so much

621
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: to say. I need to say things out loud. I

622
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: need to process the way I'm feeling. I need somebody

623
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: to talk back to me and I It kind of

624
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: breaks my heart, but I get it that people feel

625
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: like the humans in their life, the humans and their community,

626
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 3: they have so much that they cannot ask the humans

627
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: to hold all of it and so on the one hand,

628
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: that makes me sad, But on the other hand, I'm

629
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: happy they have resources. Like I wouldn't say, you know,

630
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be using chat SHEETBT for this if you

631
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: feel like that is genuinely helping you process in a

632
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: way that you need because we all, we all need

633
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: to to get it out, you know, let it out.

634
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: I don't like that.

635
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: I don't like the idea that you could be, that

636
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: you could be too much for your community, have too

637
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: much inside. But I understand it because like, nobody wants

638
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: to be that friend that like is like always wanting

639
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: to vent at you. It's it's it's it's you know

640
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. I don't really have the answer, but

641
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: I get.

642
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: Being I think if you've been friends with women long enough,

643
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: especially in an era where many of them were so

644
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 4: excited to be a mother, to have a child. I mean,

645
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 4: I've had many a friends, even really young, like getting

646
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 4: pregnant and having what is a common miscarriage, and you know,

647
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 4: we we've talked about this as we need to normalize

648
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 4: it and have conversation, but that's still a loss. That's

649
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 4: still a loss to so many people who can get pregnant.

650
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 4: And I think that's one of the things that we

651
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: kind of forget in this normalizing that it's still personal

652
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: for a lot of people that for some we need

653
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 4: to normalize it in that like this does not be criminalized,

654
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: but again, it's still a moment where there was especially

655
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: for those who had long term plans and have been

656
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: trying and really have fertility issues, are like questions about

657
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 4: that and it's so excited about it, and like losing

658
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: what they thought would be a new part of their

659
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 4: family at like six weeks old is traumatic. It's a

660
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: traumatic moment, even though people will say it's common. And

661
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: I think being able to actually have something that understands

662
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 4: loss in that way instead of hearing just like, oh,

663
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: it's okay, it's not your fault, which we it's true

664
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: it's not your fault. It is common that's not necessarily

665
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: what it's going to help at that moment. And as

666
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 4: good intended as all of us are, including therapists, social workers,

667
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: all that that sometimes without knowing with you saying those things,

668
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: without knowing that that's not the right thing, and having

669
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 4: maybe chat gpt with the way you were to understand

670
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 4: a little more of what you need. That that can

671
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 4: make a lot of sense as to why a lot

672
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 4: of people who get pregnant or who has had a

673
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 4: pregnancy loss would have turned to that to want to

674
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 4: be able to validate some of that loss again, to

675
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 4: go through that. Again, why subreddits and reddits were so important,

676
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 4: why message boards can be so important. It is that level.

677
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 4: But again, humans error, they err on the side of

678
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 4: what they have gone through. So that's what they say,

679
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 4: which could be a good bad thing, And I.

680
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: Mean that's what AI is good at.

681
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: Like the same the I hate to say it the

682
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: thing that makes AI dangerous for somebody who is experiencing

683
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: delusions because it understands what it is that you want

684
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: or need to hear. That is the same thing that

685
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: might make it a good place for someone to vent

686
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: because it understands like what it is that you want

687
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: or need to hear, And it's good at spitting that

688
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 3: back out at you. And there are use cases where

689
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 3: that might be a good thing, if you need reassurance,

690
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: if you need just something.

691
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say someone because.

692
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 3: I have a bad habit of answerpomorphizing, which is also

693
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: a word I cannot pronounce.

694
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: I have to say a lot of my work, and

695
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: I can make a word never tried. Yeah, I've never tried.

696
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: Let's just don't rewind and break down how I said it.

697
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: Let's just move on. But like, uh, you know, the

698
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: thing that makes it good at understanding.

699
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 3: AI is very good at understanding what people want and

700
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 3: saying what people want to hear and spitting that back

701
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 3: out at them. And so there are times when that

702
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: would be useful, and there are times where that would

703
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: be dangerous. And I know it sounds like what people

704
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 3: are saying is that when you are trying to get

705
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: pregnant after experiencing pregnancy loss or just going through pregnancy loss,

706
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 3: it might be a use case where it's helpful.

707
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 2: Yes, And before we get into sort of the more

708
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 2: negative aspect, perhaps there is an instance you have in

709
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 2: here of it being helpful and saving someone's life.

710
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 3: Yes, so this was wild to me asking chat cheat

711
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 3: Betea might have actually saved a pregnant woman's life. A

712
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: woman in her third trimester felt a tightness in her

713
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: jaw before she went to bed, and almost just for

714
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: a lark, she asked chat cheat Beta in this casual way,

715
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 3: why does my jaw feel tight?

716
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: Chatcheat BT was like, check your blood pressure? And then

717
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: she did and she was like, oh, my blood pressure

718
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,959
Speaker 1: is very high, and within thirty minutes, chat cheat Bete

719
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: was urging her to call an ambulance. She did.

720
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: She went to the hospital. Her blood pressure had climbed

721
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 3: to two hundred over one forty six. Doctors were like,

722
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: we need to deliver your baby now, and she had

723
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: what to start with, the pre preclamsy of I think

724
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: that's what it's called, like high blood pressure and doctor

725
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 3: said that had she gone to sleep that night, she

726
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: she could have died. And so chatjeet bt helped her

727
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 3: make the decision to take this seriously and was like

728
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: the deciding factor deciding to call an ambulance.

729
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: Importantly, chat gpt did not diagnose her.

730
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: It helped her make the decision to call an ambulance

731
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 3: where human doctors at the hospital diagnosed her and saved

732
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: her life. And so I want to say that because

733
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: I don't want someone to hear chat GPT can diagnose

734
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 3: me with something. I think the better way to think

735
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: about it is chat GPT can help me get the

736
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: information to make the decision to connect with medical professionals

737
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: who then can diagnose me and help save my life.

738
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: Yes, which is a great distinction and something again I

739
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: think a lot of us have done. Where you go online,

740
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: you look up how serious is this? Sometimes it can

741
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 2: be hard to separate from your own panic and perhaps

742
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: hyperbolic reading of it, but you know, kind of getting

743
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: a lay of the land of like what could this be?

744
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 2: Should I be really concerned and then going to seek

745
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 2: professional help if the Internet's like, oh yeah, that's really

746
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: bad exactly, Yes, But that does as to some of

747
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: the downsides of this whole thing.

748
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it sounds like I'm like, oh, definitely, you

749
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 3: don't even need a doctor, y'all, You've got chat gypt.

750
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: That is not what I'm saying.

751
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 3: So let's pump the brakes, because using chat GPT for

752
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 3: pregnancy advice is not without risk.

753
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: First of all.

754
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: As I said, AI is notorious for spitting out misinformation

755
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: what's called the hallucinations, which is just flat out incorrect

756
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: information stated as fact. Like when I ask chat gypt

757
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: about guests that I have interviewed. It told me once

758
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 3: that one of my note I was known for having

759
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,959
Speaker 3: interviewed Monica Lewinsky. Monica Lewinsky is one of my White

760
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 3: Whale podcast guests, and I must have said it on

761
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: a podcast. I think somebody asked me, like, who are

762
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: the two guests you would most want to interview When

763
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: I think I said Monica Lewinsky and Missy Elliott, and

764
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: chat gpt has like spoken this into existence.

765
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: Only one problem, it never happened, But I love that

766
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: it's manifesting for me.

767
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: But that's a hallucination, just a flat out incorrect detail

768
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: stated as.

769
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: Fact, And so chatchept is notorious for that.

770
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: One study last year found that fifty two percent of

771
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: chatgeept's answers contained some level of misinformation or incorrect information. So,

772
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: especially when you're talking about your health, that is something

773
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: to really really keep in the forefront of your mind

774
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: that we simply don't know if the information we're getting

775
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 3: is accurate or not.

776
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: When you're using chat Gypt.

777
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: And the second is what we talked about the last

778
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 3: time we all were hanging out, which is privacy. I

779
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: think Annie you alluded to this given how surveiled pregnancy

780
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: is right now in the United States and how criminalized

781
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 3: pregnancy is in the United States. That you know, we've

782
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 3: had reports of women being criminalized for miscarriage and pregnancy loss.

783
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 3: That is something to keep in mind if you are

784
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: using chat ept as a place to ask medical questions.

785
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 3: My opinion is that they are not so like I

786
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't trust CHATTYBT with anything that is sensitive or in

787
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 3: him about myself.

788
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 4: So we know that I believe they have They're one

789
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 4: of the companies that may have a contract with the government.

790
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: So that's correct. We need anything like that.

791
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: It should be recognized immediately as Yeah, this is not

792
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 4: going to good for privacy.

793
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

794
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I personally do not trust open AI. I

795
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: don't trust the way they move, I don't trust their leadership.

796
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 3: I don't when they say things in public, it makes it.

797
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: It sets off a million warning bells for me, the

798
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: way that they move, and so even the stuff that

799
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 3: they have said in public, I have a heart.

800
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: It's I just don't trust.

801
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: It's a company I don't trust, and so it does

802
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: suck that when people think about AI, the first company

803
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: they usually think of is open Ai because they're thinking

804
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 3: about chatsh EPT and they definitely take up this like

805
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: large footprint in the AI landscape, and they are not

806
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 3: a company that I would say I trust, and I'll

807
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 3: just leave it at that, like they really I could

808
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 3: talk a lot about this, and a lot of it

809
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 3: A lot of it is they have said publicly and

810
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: also just like what I glean from the way that

811
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 3: they move publicly, So.

812
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, And also other people have spoken out about

813
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: the concerns around privacy correct.

814
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: So in the article, the journalist spoke to Tom Subach,

815
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: who is the founder of the Reimagination Lab and the

816
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 3: former chief strategy officer at Planned Parenthood, who said that

817
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: there are very real privacy risks when entrusting the details

818
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: of your reproductive health to chat YOUBT. Subec says, could

819
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: the data be used by a hostile prosecutor who is

820
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: going on a fishing expedition for women who have had miscarriages? Absolutely,

821
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 3: as is the case with almost any free online platform,

822
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: you are trading some level of your anonymity and most

823
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: personal health details for use of that app. So just

824
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: another thing to keep in mind, you know.

825
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And as we've discussed multiple times on the show,

826
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: it's really unfortunate because we do live in this online

827
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: space and a lot of these these free programs that

828
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: so many of us use have those huge contracts that

829
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 2: you were like, yes, I agree. Uh. And also sometimes

830
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: I try not to do this anymore, but there was

831
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: a time when it was like, do you just want

832
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: to use your Google email just to sign in and

833
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: you can get this out article? And I was like, yeah, sure.

834
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: And now I look back and I'm like, oh, yeah,

835
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: they were definitely getting a lot of my data, and

836
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I was just training the ease of doing that versus

837
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: the reality of what of what it would cost.

838
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

839
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: I think that you really put that so well because

840
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: I think that is the dance that we're all navigating.

841
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: I think that.

842
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 3: We all need to understand the trade offs that we

843
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: make for convenience and that and really in a deep

844
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 3: way ask ourselves is it worth it?

845
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: Are we getting something that is worth what we are losing?

846
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 3: And I I was the same way, like I probably

847
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: had some of the worst digital hygiene practices of anybody

848
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: I know in the early days of the internet, because

849
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: I was just thinking, like, I mean, remember when Facebook

850
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: came to your college, Like it was like it was excitement.

851
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: I could not conceptualize that this could have a negative outcome.

852
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: I just like I wasn't there yet.

853
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: And one of the reasons I care so deeply about

854
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 3: this is that I think back to that and I'm like,

855
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 3: I was misled, I was lied to, I was hoodwinked,

856
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: and like, I gave away so much without even asking,

857
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 3: because I wanted to put pictures of our nights out

858
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: on the internet easily, right, Like I gave up so

859
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: much without even asking the question. And that's one of

860
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: the reasons why this is like a hill I will

861
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: die on that we should at least be asking the question,

862
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 3: is this trade off worth it? Is what I am

863
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: getting in return from these tech companies benefiting me enough

864
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: to make trading away these these intimate things about my body,

865
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 3: my relationships, my life, the things that make us human,

866
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 3: isn't worth it?

867
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: Like that really is the question.

868
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: It's very fascinating to be in this part of the

869
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: timeline where we had Facebook that was so exciting. It's

870
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: so new and now we have chat GPT, which feels

871
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: like a whole different beast in a way, but it

872
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: does have that same vibe of like, what is this

873
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: going to be? What can I learn from it?

874
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: What can I ask for it?

875
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: What is the good and the bad? And that is

876
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 2: something that we are we're still wrestling with even within

877
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: this question that's right.

878
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: So I took a lott So after reading this article

879
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 3: that Susie posted on to me on Blue Sky, I

880
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: was like, okay, so this is what people are using

881
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: chat cept for pregnancy and fertility information.

882
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: Got it, But then I was like, is this a

883
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: good thing? Like again, I mean I have I.

884
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: Feel like I wrestled with this in the conversation that

885
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: we've had today of like it's I'm happy that people

886
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 3: have a platform that offers them a resource that they

887
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: self report helps them out, but is this a good

888
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 3: thing long term? So I took a look at an

889
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: article called chat JAPT a Reliable Fertility Decision Making Tool

890
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 3: in the Journal of Human Reproduction. The authors we're wrestling

891
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: with the question that you know, yes, people are saying

892
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: that they feel more empowered by using chat GPT on

893
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 3: their pregnancy journey but is that a good thing? And

894
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 3: basically they found exactly what you might expect that compared

895
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: to just googling stuff randomly.

896
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: Yes, it is better.

897
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 3: The piece says, freely available versions of generative AI are

898
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 3: a faster and equally accurate means of gaining an answer

899
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: to a straightforward question. Furthermore, the chatbot has been shown

900
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: to equalize user search performance across different education levels, promoting

901
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 3: equity of access to the broad range of health literacy

902
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 3: capabilities that exist within the general population. So it might

903
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,479
Speaker 3: if you're someone who, like me, who any thing about

904
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: medical stuff, it might be a way to like make

905
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 3: that information more accessible and more equitable.

906
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: That's great.

907
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: But importantly they say that because we don't know what

908
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 3: information chatgbt was trained on, and arguments around falling into

909
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: the hype of chatgebt, healthcare providers should be using this

910
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: information to invest in the generation of their own models

911
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: using the emerging technology and trusted data, a sentiment the

912
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 3: authors of that article strongly support, which I support too.

913
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense.

914
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 3: I think that the idea of oh well, healthcare and

915
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 3: health information is inaccessible for people, so they're just going

916
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 3: on chat GPT.

917
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: That's fine.

918
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: I think that the next step should be so actual

919
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 3: medical professionals should be making their own models to give

920
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: people access to health information that is accurate in a

921
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: way that is more accessible. They should be learning from

922
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 3: the fact that people are turning to chat sheatpt, not

923
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 3: just having that be the outcome like, Okay, they're getting

924
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 3: what they need, because I actually don't think they're getting

925
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 3: what they need.

926
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: They need actual medical information that they can trust.

927
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 4: I wonder how soon we'll have healthcare companies try to

928
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 4: take that as a money making scheme.

929
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I can answer that question for you,

930
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 3: which is gill me, how soon is now? Because they're

931
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 3: doing it, that's happening.

932
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: As we speak.

933
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and what are they doing? Should I be weary?

934
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is a little bit above

935
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: my pay grade.

936
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 3: But I do know that, like, like before my mom's death,

937
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 3: she was talking about how like medical professionals.

938
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: Are really using AI a lot.

939
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: Like the one of the aspects of this conversation that

940
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: I cut but we can talk about is how you know,

941
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 3: we're talking about using chat shept as a way to

942
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 3: give people information on their pregnancy journey, but AI, not chatcheapt.

943
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: Other forms of AI is actually helping people to get.

944
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: Pregnant in a literal way as well, because doctors at

945
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: Columbia they reported what they were calling the first pregnancy

946
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: using AI, using this new AI so to help with

947
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 3: low sperm count. And so apparently male fertility challenges account

948
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: for forty percent of infertility in the US, and specifically

949
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: low sperm count is responsible for ten percent of those cases.

950
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: And it used to be that if that was the problem,

951
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 3: there was not much that they could do. But they

952
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: had this new AI procedure called Star Sperm Track and Recovery,

953
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 3: where doctors used an AI algorithm to detect sperm using

954
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: a fluidic chip that passed the semen sample through a

955
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 3: tiny tube on a plastic chip. And if AI detected sperm,

956
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: even a teeny tiny amount, they could use that AI

957
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 3: detection to collect it and actually fertilize an egg. And

958
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 3: a couple that had been trying to conceive for a

959
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 3: very long time was able to actually conceive a child

960
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: using this AI model. And so I don't want to

961
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: make it seem like the intersection of AI and pregnancy

962
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: is all super sketchy, because they it sounds like they

963
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 3: are using it in some ways that are that are interesting,

964
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: but I just know that when it comes to health

965
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 3: information and technology, not every actor out there is a

966
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 3: good actor, and it just makes me concerned.

967
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have concerns.

968
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: That is a lot to take in. Glad that you

969
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: shared it. I had not heard of that, but wow,

970
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: I mean I'm happy it's helping people. It just sounds

971
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 2: so futuristic.

972
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, the future is now.

973
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: The future is now, And you know this isn't the

974
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: same thing as AI, but I have experienced something along

975
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: the lines of I'm trying to get help for whatever,

976
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: and it's always like, have you talked to our chatbot?

977
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: Have you talked to our chatbot? And the chatbot is

978
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: not helping me out. It's just like have you tried

979
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: looking on the internet of like yes. So you know

980
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 2: that there are ways we can move forward and improve

981
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: and there are still some things that we need to

982
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: worry about when it comes to integrating this kind of

983
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 2: technology in a medical space exactly. And that study I

984
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: was referencing in the Journal of Human Reproduction really makes

985
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: this clear. They said that we need to be aware

986
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: of and tackle the common ethical concerns about AI, including privacy, trust, accountability,

987
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: and responsibility and bias, and that healthcare professionals have an

988
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: edge here when compared to chat TPT because their training

989
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: and practice makes them well versed in the delivery of

990
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: best practice care something reserved for sentient beings at least

991
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: for now, right, And so.

992
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: It does seem true that humans might have the edge

993
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: on this one, and that.

994
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: We I don't think that we should be replacing human

995
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: doctors or humans in anything when it comes to AI, Like, ultimately,

996
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: you don't want to explain your problems to a chatbot.

997
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 3: There needs to be a human in the mix there somewhere.

998
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 3: As you said, Annie, you don't want to trust a

999
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: chatbot when you're really in the thick of it. I

1000
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 3: think people don't want to be going back and forth

1001
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: with what they know with a chatbot.

1002
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's frustrating and not fun, but it is as

1003
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: you have made the point throughout this, clearly, there is

1004
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 2: an interest in it, and there is a value in

1005
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 2: it in terms of how we can perhaps build something better,

1006
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: and it is something that is impacting us all, whether

1007
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 2: we want it to or not.

1008
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: That is expertly put.

1009
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 3: I would say, like the bottom line is that we

1010
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: are navigating how AI is changing these foundational things of

1011
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: what it means to be human, and that includes pregnancy

1012
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 3: and childbirth, and so we've got to go into it

1013
00:50:53,800 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: with a clear understanding of the ethical, safety, privacy, environmental bias,

1014
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 3: like all of these different risks that come with the

1015
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: way that AI is changing this. We should really really

1016
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: be grappling with that instead of just getting lost in

1017
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 3: AI hype that this is going to be automatically good

1018
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: for everybody and this is the future, right, So I

1019
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 3: think as long as we're proceeding with a clear understanding

1020
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 3: of that like that, like that is the way to

1021
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 3: go forward in the future in my opinion.

1022
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: Yes, agreed, and thank you so much for tackling this.

1023
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Susie to Go for suggesting it.

1024
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 2: We always love talking to you, Bridget. Where can the

1025
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: good listeners find you?

1026
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 3: Well, you can find me at my podcast all about

1027
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: the intersection of tech and identity and social media. So

1028
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: if you want to have more conversations like this, check

1029
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 3: us out. You can find me on Instagram at Bridget

1030
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: Marine DC. You can find me on TikTok at Bridget

1031
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 3: Marine DC. You can find me on YouTube. And there

1032
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 3: are no girls on the Internet yeah, hang out with me.

1033
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 3: That's sound empathetic, but you know what I mean, it's

1034
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 3: not pathetic.

1035
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: Bridgett is lovely and I.

1036
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 4: Would love to hang out with you.

1037
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: We always yeah, I'd love to hang out with you.

1038
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: Oh, the pleasure is always all mine.

1039
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: Well, until next time, listeners, go check out all of

1040
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: that stuff. If you haven't already, If you would like

1041
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: to contact us, you can or email us hello at

1042
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: stuff Whenever Told You dot com. You can find us

1043
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: on Blue Sky on Stuff podcast or on Instagram and

1044
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: TikTok at stuff when the Never Told You for us

1045
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: on YouTube, and we have a book you can get

1046
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: wherever you get your books. Thanks, it's always to our

1047
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 2: super just because senior executive preuser My and your contributor Joey.

1048
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks you for listening. Stuff Never Told

1049
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: You is production by Heart Radio. For more podcast or

1050
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio

1051
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: appple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows