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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power. CALLI

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chack in San Francisco, and this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. The

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Speaker 1: labor market seems to be heating up, more than double

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Speaker 1: the number of jobs forecast added in July. I will

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Speaker 1: ask LIFTS president about the state of the gig economy

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Speaker 1: as murmurs of a recession get quieter for now still,

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Speaker 1: the housing market cooling after rate heights make home buying

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Speaker 1: that much more expensive. Power platforms like Zillo and Redfin

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Speaker 1: reassessing after years of unprecedented demand. Redfen CEO Glenn Kellman

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Speaker 1: also with us this hour, and Lincoln co founder Reid

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Speaker 1: Hoffman wants to sell you are created by a computer.

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Speaker 1: Will tell us what it was like to sell a

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Speaker 1: collection of AI generated n f T and what it

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Speaker 1: tells him about the future. We will get to all

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Speaker 1: of that in a moment, but first, for more on

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Speaker 1: LIFT results in the state of the gig economy, I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in John Zimmer, co founder, vice chair

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Speaker 1: and president of Left John great to have you back

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Speaker 1: with us. What changed this quarter. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: switch was flipped or you shifted into a new gear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had a we had a great quarter record high

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Speaker 1: adjusted I BADA profit for the company. The team did

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Speaker 1: phenomenal work. UH, and we really made some adjustments going

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Speaker 1: into the quarter. But also the business conditions are improving

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Speaker 1: for us on the driver's side. UH, drivers are doing well.

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Speaker 1: They had you know, thirty seven dollars on average UH

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Speaker 1: an hour for their earnings. UH. And we're much more

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Speaker 1: imbalanced so year over year are e t A S

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Speaker 1: which is a great level of or measure of service

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Speaker 1: levels came down three minutes. So really happy with what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing in the marketplace. We got positive jobs now

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Speaker 1: use today kind of a surprise. But I wonder how

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Speaker 1: concerns you still are about the macro environment. We've got inflation,

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Speaker 1: you still got high gas prices, and you've got a

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Speaker 1: recession looming. Yeah, we were watching it obviously closely. I

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Speaker 1: think there are positives and negatives for our marketplace. UM.

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Speaker 1: When you have more people looking for flexible work with

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Speaker 1: good earnings. UM. You know, as we're seeing right now,

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Speaker 1: it does help us on the driver's side of the equation. UH.

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Speaker 1: And and writers are still coming back because you know,

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Speaker 1: we're coming off the bottom of a pandemic that really uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, affected and hurt our business, and so there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of headroom left. Uh, And the driver's side

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Speaker 1: of the equation improving is really nice to see. I

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Speaker 1: spoke to your competition this week. Here's Uber CEO Dara Kasbasha,

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Speaker 1: he who said he thinks Uber is a recession resistant company.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what he had to say. Because

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Speaker 1: we're in multiple businesses, both in mobility and delivery. I

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Speaker 1: think we have a kind of business that can perform

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Speaker 1: in all weather. But at the same time, we are

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Speaker 1: being disciplined in terms of costs to make sure that

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Speaker 1: as the environment, if it gets tougher, we are prepared. John,

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Speaker 1: how would you described lists chances in a recession? Are

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Speaker 1: you any less recession proof if you will, because you

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Speaker 1: don't have a delivery part of the business, for example,

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Speaker 1: I think we're in a better position if you think

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Speaker 1: about you know, people having less discretionary money to spend, uh,

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Speaker 1: do they spend it on you know, inflated ordering in

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Speaker 1: food that that has become inflated, or do they make

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Speaker 1: food for themselves? Um? And actually we looked back at

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Speaker 1: historical data and transportation is quite durable compared to take out.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about your strategy around costs.

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Speaker 1: You know Ed was just talking about more layoffs at

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Speaker 1: tech companies. I know you talked a little bit about

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Speaker 1: hiring on the call. What's your strategy when it comes

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Speaker 1: to spending? Are you pulling on the brake or are

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Speaker 1: you stepping on the gas like Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky

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Speaker 1: told me he's doing earlier this week. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to spending for growth and hiring, we're being quite cautious.

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Speaker 1: So we we really slowed our hiring at the start

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Speaker 1: of the quarter um and at first frozen outright and

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Speaker 1: then only opened up the head count that we saw

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Speaker 1: as incredibly valuable to our to our plans to drive

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Speaker 1: profitable growth. So I'd say we're gonna be you know,

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Speaker 1: continued to be cautious. Uh. And and on hiring specifically,

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Speaker 1: UH still do some but but not put the pedal

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Speaker 1: down when it comes to hiring and just retaining employees.

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Speaker 1: How are you keeping people motivated? I know today this

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Speaker 1: week was a particularly great week for lift shares, but

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Speaker 1: they are down significantly since I p O and down

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Speaker 1: more than some of your industry peers, if you will. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have a phenomenal team that's been with us through

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Speaker 1: a lot of the ups and downs of the past

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Speaker 1: couple of years. The team, UH, you know, at all levels,

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Speaker 1: and especially the leadership level, is battle tested. I've never

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Speaker 1: seen a more cohesive feeling for for our leadership team,

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Speaker 1: and then I have over the past few months. I'm

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Speaker 1: confident we're retaining talent, We're hiring phenomenal talent, so we're

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Speaker 1: we're in a good place because people love the mission

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Speaker 1: level we're working on UH and know that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of room to grow from here. All right, John Zimmer,

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Speaker 1: President of Lift, Good to have you back, John, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. All right. Meta has put

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Speaker 1: its acquisition of the VR Company within Unlimited on hold

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Speaker 1: for now, putting the deal on ice until or until

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Speaker 1: the court makes a ruling on the stec's lawsuit to

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Speaker 1: block this transaction. The FTC alleges the deal would help

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Speaker 1: Meta monopolize the VR industry. Chairs of red Fit are

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Speaker 1: having the best day in months, despite reporting earnings below expectations,

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Speaker 1: the stock jumping more than at the close unprecedented demand

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Speaker 1: for homes has given real estate online real estate to

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Speaker 1: boost in the last few years, but higher rates are

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Speaker 1: slowing that momentum. I want to bring in red Vincy Yo,

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Speaker 1: Glenn Kelman. Now, Glen, it feels like so many times

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Speaker 1: we've talked when the stock is down, but today shares

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Speaker 1: are up more than four How do you square that

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Speaker 1: with the housing market taking a turn from the worst?

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Speaker 1: To use your words, well, I think it could have

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Speaker 1: been worse. Analysts were worried that the market had completely crashed,

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Speaker 1: and instead, over the past four weeks it's gotten better.

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Speaker 1: So in June, demand was far worse than almost anyone expected.

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Speaker 1: We had the biggest rate hike since economists were thinking

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Speaker 1: that there'd be a one percent decrease in home sales,

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Speaker 1: and instead there was a nine percent decrease in home sales.

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Speaker 1: So people freaked. But things got a little better in

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks of July and that led to

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Speaker 1: some optimism and the housing market. So when you look

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Speaker 1: at the housing mark it are you optimistic or are

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Speaker 1: you freaking out a little bit? What are the trends

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Speaker 1: that you see that are most alarming? It changes day

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Speaker 1: to day, So I think On one hand, you've got

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Speaker 1: places like Boise, Salt Lake City, and Denver having more

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Speaker 1: than half their listings drop their price. In Boise it

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Speaker 1: was si the ie buyers are just ripping the bottom

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Speaker 1: out of the market because we have to price ahead

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Speaker 1: of everyone else to liquidate our inventory. So that has

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Speaker 1: made the correction sharper, but hopefully more short lived than

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Speaker 1: anyone expected. And on the other side, the FED was

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Speaker 1: debbish about interest rates last week, and so mortgage rates

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Speaker 1: have really come down. Buyers have come back because home

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Speaker 1: prices are down and now the mortgages are more affordable,

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Speaker 1: so we've seen a slide uptick in demand. I think

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Speaker 1: it's good that we're letting some air out of the balloon.

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Speaker 1: In general, it was too crazy. So what direction is

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Speaker 1: this all going in? I mean, do you think of

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Speaker 1: recession is inevitable or are we already in one and

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Speaker 1: somebody just has to call it. I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: already in a recession. I think the housing market is

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Speaker 1: definitely in a jam where it has been very volatile.

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Speaker 1: It has been hard on people trying to buy and

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Speaker 1: sell their home, but the rest of the economy is

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Speaker 1: doing reasonably well. The stock market has recovered. There was

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Speaker 1: a great jobs print today. So it just depends on

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Speaker 1: whether the FED has to take really aggressive action with inflation.

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Speaker 1: And I was surprised at how devash they are because

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Speaker 1: I think that inflation trends are deep seated, and so

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Speaker 1: the FED is going to have to take another bite

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Speaker 1: at the apple and raise rates later in the year.

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Speaker 1: But we'll see. I don't run the FED. It's the reason. Well,

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Speaker 1: you do have a great outlook on the housing market,

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Speaker 1: and what is your outlook for let's say second half

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Speaker 1: half of the year availability and affordability of homes. What

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Speaker 1: are you expecting Homes are going to get more affordable.

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Speaker 1: Prices are coming down. Uh, Sellers across the board are

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Speaker 1: cutting their prices. The beautiful homes are the ones that

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Speaker 1: are selling right now. The homes that have a funky

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Speaker 1: layout are actually being withdrawn from the market. So the

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Speaker 1: price drops are actually steve for than most people realize

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Speaker 1: because of this selection bias. If we had to sell

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Speaker 1: all the homes that we sold a year ago, prices

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Speaker 1: really would have fallen. So that has led to more

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Speaker 1: buyers coming back to the market. I think that it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a fairly balanced market. For the next

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Speaker 1: few months until the FED makes another move. But if

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Speaker 1: the FED makes another move, all the bets are off

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Speaker 1: because consumers have been so ridiculously rate sensitive over the

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Speaker 1: past few months. I'm used to that. I've been doing

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Speaker 1: this for fifteen years, but I've never seen such rate increases,

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Speaker 1: and consumers respond so strongly to those rate increases. So

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Speaker 1: what does this mean for those would be first time

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Speaker 1: home buyers that are just trying to get on the

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Speaker 1: property letter and have not been able to. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a real generational challenge for the fabric of American society.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of people who are coming of

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Speaker 1: age right now who can't afford the American dream, and

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Speaker 1: the pinch is that they're stuck between rising rents and

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Speaker 1: very high home prices. So we try to tell people

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Speaker 1: to date the rate and marry the house. That just

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Speaker 1: means that you can read finance in a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: But if you can now buy a house that would

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Speaker 1: have sold for two thousand dollars over asking some crazy

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Speaker 1: bidding more just three months ago and that is now

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Speaker 1: sitting on the market, make an aggressive offer. And that

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Speaker 1: is especially true in the middle of the country. And

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Speaker 1: in the coastal markets, we've definitely seen price declients, but

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Speaker 1: things got way out of hand in places like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Boise,

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake. The middle of the country and the Sun

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Speaker 1: Belt was way over priced and that is now coming

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Speaker 1: back to earth and there's going to be a significant

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Speaker 1: correction there now. We've seen a number of layoffs at

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Speaker 1: tech companies, Oracle just the latest one today. Redfin also

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Speaker 1: having some layoffs. After you said they hired, you hired

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Speaker 1: faster than ever last year. What was the miscalculation. Well,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just a miscalculation, it was my miscalculation. I

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Speaker 1: was the one who hired into that. It's so hard

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Speaker 1: because you're not gaining as much share as you should.

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Speaker 1: You're turning away thousands of customers every month. You don't

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Speaker 1: have enough real estate agents to serve the demand. You

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Speaker 1: can't solve all the problems that are coming at you

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Speaker 1: left and right, and then the market just drops out.

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Speaker 1: And so we laid off six of our workforce, and

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Speaker 1: I'm the one accountable for that. I feel so ashamed

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Speaker 1: about it. I was so blue. I still am. But

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Speaker 1: it's what we had to do to run a profitable

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Speaker 1: business and now I think we feel more optimistic about

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Speaker 1: the future, but we're still running on an ice edge.

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Speaker 1: We're not out of the woods yet. Well, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: you being honest with us about your feelings, and I

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Speaker 1: wonder how it makes you think differently about the future.

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Speaker 1: How are you diversifying your business if things get worse?

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Speaker 1: You know, how are you recalculating your approach to hiring

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Speaker 1: in a new environment. Well, every time you go through

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Speaker 1: something like this, you say, never again. Every single time

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Speaker 1: I hired somebody, I'm gonna remember I might have to

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Speaker 1: fire that person one day because we don't have enough money.

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Speaker 1: And it's just hard because it's almost like you're on drugs,

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Speaker 1: you've drank too much. You're just at last some party

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Speaker 1: or something in three in the morning, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the lights come up and you're like, what

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Speaker 1: have I done? So you just have to be really

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Speaker 1: careful about your hiring. I don't think we're going to

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Speaker 1: diversify the business because we are going to keep taking share.

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Speaker 1: We sell homes faster for more money. We charge a

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Speaker 1: one percent fee. The basic engine of the business is

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Speaker 1: very good. If we wanted to get out of the business,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what else we would do, because there

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Speaker 1: isn't a better business than that. So we just have

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Speaker 1: to focus, execute, keep doing what we're doing, and the

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Speaker 1: rest is going to take care of itself. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as we look to the second half of the year,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the evolution of the pandemic, maybe another

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Speaker 1: COVID spike, maybe monkeypox gets out of control. We're just

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Speaker 1: talking talking to John Zimmer have left about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: How are you taking the unpredictable into account? Well, by

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Speaker 1: its very nature, you can't take that into account. I

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Speaker 1: just think that instead of responding immediately to more demand

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Speaker 1: by hiring, instead of investing a long term future, you

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Speaker 1: just have to be more careful and take it day

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Speaker 1: by day. So we recognize that life is complicated, that

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Speaker 1: the world has all these different forces. There's a war

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine, there's inflation, there's all sorts of geopolitical unrest,

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Speaker 1: and we just try to stick to our knitting and

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Speaker 1: do what we do best. And if bad things are

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Speaker 1: going to happen, you can't just rely on the idea

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Speaker 1: that you're going to have incredible commercial success. You have

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Speaker 1: to have some rudder that guide you through your life

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Speaker 1: where you really believe in what you're doing. So if

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Speaker 1: there's a moral dimension to it, it helps you get

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Speaker 1: through the more ups and downs a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: But if it's all about the money, as soon as

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Speaker 1: there ain't no money in it, your whole being collapses.

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Speaker 1: And so I think we just have to remember that

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Speaker 1: we got into this business to make housing more affordable,

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Speaker 1: to make it more fair, and if we do that,

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Speaker 1: we're also going to make a pretty penny for all

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Speaker 1: the people who have invested in us. We want to

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Speaker 1: vindicate you, but the way to do it is to

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Speaker 1: do it right. Look at the moral compass of a CEO.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Coleman. Great with us. I always afree, I I

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Speaker 1: believe it's genuine. I hope it's genuine. Uh, And I

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Speaker 1: always appreciate you. Open it up a little here. Thank you, Thanks, Emily,

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Speaker 1: take care of all right you too. Red Fence CEO

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Speaker 1: gen Glenn Kelman. Alright, coming up. Amazon has its own

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Speaker 1: home robot. So why is it buying the room ba

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Speaker 1: maker I Robot. We'll dig in next. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Amazon continues it's push into internet connected home devices. It

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Speaker 1: is agreed to buy I Robot, the company that makes

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Speaker 1: room Buz, those robots that vacuum and wash floors. The

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Speaker 1: deal valued at about one point seven billion dollars. Here

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Speaker 1: to tell us why maybe is creative strategy of president

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Speaker 1: and principle analys Carolyn A milanais Caroline, are great to

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Speaker 1: have you back with us. So why I robot for Amazon?

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Speaker 1: Because it's about the mass market? Although Amazon has his

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Speaker 1: own robot is a robot that is over a thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars and hasn't yet made it to market, and a

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Speaker 1: Rumba is already in a lot of homes. H I

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Speaker 1: robot as the trust of consumers, and so Amazon is

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Speaker 1: acquiring that trust to some extent, the data that they

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Speaker 1: already governed, and the opportunity to get to more homes

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Speaker 1: and govern more data. What about Amazon's Astro robot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they had this big reveal and we haven't heard a

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Speaker 1: lot about Astro since I actually had the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: try for a few days in my own home, and

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Speaker 1: it's a very different experience to a Rumba is really

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Speaker 1: more about um, you know, like almost a pet like

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Speaker 1: robot in your home that takes a little bit more

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Speaker 1: adjusting to, has some militied limitations far as where it goes.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very earlier days. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: opportunity in automation, but from a price point perspective, the

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Speaker 1: room that fits a larger market today that will get

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Speaker 1: necessary information to Amazon to make them astro more successful tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Well that was my next question. Do we want a

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Speaker 1: robot pet or does a robot vacuum cleaner just make

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Speaker 1: more sense? It depends what you're doing. I think there

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Speaker 1: are use cases around automation, for instance, for summer homes

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Speaker 1: where you want some um, you know, continue policing, if

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Speaker 1: you want of your home, or if you have older

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Speaker 1: people in your family that you want some help with

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Speaker 1: even navigating the home. I think there's that opportunity. My

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Speaker 1: cats and dog went on got on quite well with it,

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Speaker 1: so there's there's an opportunity there as well as a

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Speaker 1: pet sitter. But I think for a lot of consumers

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Speaker 1: it will take a little bit of adjusting to do

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Speaker 1: you think we're going to see more acquisitions like this

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Speaker 1: are in this area from Amazon. I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of opportunity in the in the home, and I

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Speaker 1: think generally automation and if you're thinking about the core

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Speaker 1: asset that comes way room by which is you know,

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Speaker 1: knowing the layout of your home can be applied to

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Speaker 1: other areas, whether it is, you know, a factory or

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Speaker 1: is an office. So there's um AI and functionalities that

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Speaker 1: Amazon can utilize in other areas, but not just our home.

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Speaker 1: And so that I think is where the opportunity is

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Speaker 1: for more acquisitions. All right, Carolina Middle and SE Creative

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Speaker 1: Strategies President and principle analyst, go to have you back, Carolina,

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Speaker 1: have a great weekend. My guess is that we're past

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Speaker 1: peak inflation um, and that we will see we will

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Speaker 1: have a recession. Yeah, I would say probably, you know,

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Speaker 1: mild moderate recession maybe eighteen months ish um and um.

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Speaker 1: And I think we think inflation is going to drop rapidly.

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Speaker 1: That's my guess. I know what what do you guys

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Speaker 1: think we might be able to announce another factory location

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Speaker 1: later this year? Uh? Where where should we okay, whish

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Speaker 1: where should we build it? Okay? We got We've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of Canada's. Uh I'm half I'm half Canadian,

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Speaker 1: so maybe I should you know, Well, I'll come back

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Technology and Emily Chang in San Francisco. Shares

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Speaker 1: of Tesla and Twitter both on the move to end

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Speaker 1: the week, and who's at the heart of it, Elon Musk,

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Speaker 1: of course. Thursday, Tesla held its annual shareholder in eating

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Speaker 1: and behind the scenes meantime, new court documents revealed Musk

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Speaker 1: countersued Twitter over that billion dollar deal. Are at Ludlow

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Speaker 1: back here to break it all down. So much news.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of all that from

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Speaker 1: e Elon Musk. But Twitter shares up three point six percent,

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Speaker 1: As you said, court documents from last week unsealed showed

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Speaker 1: that must counter suit accutizing Twitter of fraud. Will get

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Speaker 1: into that in a second. But Tesla down almost seven

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Speaker 1: Interesting After the annual meeting, shareholders approved a three for

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Speaker 1: one stock split, and then we found out after Friday's

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Speaker 1: close that that split will become effective as of August twenty. So,

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Speaker 1: if you're a shareholder of Tessa watching this, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you're going to be a shareholder of Note in August seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: You'll get two additional shares for everyone you hold, and

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Speaker 1: that stock splits effective August twenty five. This is the

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Speaker 1: basis of what Musk is saying. He's saying that Twitter

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Speaker 1: was fraudulent in their representations of the company and it's business.

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Speaker 1: There are two kind of key areas. The first is

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Speaker 1: that the number of monetize able day really active users,

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Speaker 1: in other words, a number of users on the platform

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Speaker 1: that they can make ad sales from is around sixty

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Speaker 1: million or so, fewer than Twitter has said it was.

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Speaker 1: Twitter denies that, by the way, in a response to

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Speaker 1: that filing. The second part is that in the month

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Speaker 1: of July, Team Musk estimates that around a third of

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Speaker 1: active users on the platform those actually sending tweets were

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Speaker 1: spam or bot accounts, and Twitter also denies that and

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Speaker 1: referred the judge to the SEC fights. This is the

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Speaker 1: latest tips attack. We've seen so many subpoenas of various parties,

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Speaker 1: including shareholders of both Tessa and Twitter. Musque asking for information,

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Speaker 1: Twitter asking for the information. This is going to go

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Speaker 1: on into October seventeenth until that trial starts. But we

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Speaker 1: love every twist and turn. Let's look at Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: back on stage. He did make a comment that I

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Speaker 1: found so interesting because he was kind of asked about

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Speaker 1: this idea of key man risk. What happens if you

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Speaker 1: leave Tessa what happens if the judge makes your own Twitter.

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Speaker 1: He said something very interesting that he understands Twitter's platform

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Speaker 1: and that he feels he can help the company improve.

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Speaker 1: I just thought that sounded like somebody that thinks they

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Speaker 1: might end up owning Twitter. And there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: has been made of it. So something to think on

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Speaker 1: m in the next few weeks. Interesting. Okay, thank you

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Speaker 1: at Ludlow. Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Speaker 1: One of life's oldest sayings may still hold true when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the newest technologies. At least that's what

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Speaker 1: Reid Hoffman is betting. The tech entrepreneur just sold a

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Speaker 1: collection of AI generated art turned n f T s.

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Speaker 1: It's called Untranslatable Words, a series of Salona based n

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Speaker 1: f T s or eleven tokenized images generated using open

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Speaker 1: Aiyes Dolly to artificial intelligence software. Greylock partner and Lincoln

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Speaker 1: co founder Reid Hoffman joins me now for more to

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Speaker 1: discuss read great to have you back. So it looks like,

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Speaker 1: by my calculations, you sold these from you know, a

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Speaker 1: few hundred dollars to one sold for about twenty five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. All of the money I know going to charity.

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Speaker 1: What did you learn from this process about the potential

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Speaker 1: for this technology in the future. Well, what's really amazing

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Speaker 1: when you get technologies like Dolly is you think initially

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, is this another place where like everyone

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Speaker 1: has a B plus graphic designer in their pocket, And actually,

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Speaker 1: in fact it's an amplifier of every human being. If

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Speaker 1: you're an individual with no visual creation abilities, you can

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Speaker 1: still do things like God I was doing and saying, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I have this real interest in untranslatable words, what kind

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Speaker 1: of what kind of images could you create that would

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Speaker 1: be part of that um. If you're an individual who

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Speaker 1: has a great graphic design, you can amplify. If you're

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Speaker 1: an artist, you can prototype and you can make things.

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Speaker 1: And I thought this was a really great lens for

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Speaker 1: how these modern AI tools and techniques will be amplifiers

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Speaker 1: of human capability, and that amplification is something that we

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Speaker 1: should be playing for, something we should need wanting to

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Speaker 1: too often when that this discourse around AI is I'm

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Speaker 1: fearful that the terminator robots are coming from me, are

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Speaker 1: coming from my job, And actually, in fact, I think

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Speaker 1: there's this whole land of amplification and the creativity around

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Speaker 1: Dolly and someone even who is visually essentially incapable like me,

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Speaker 1: could actually do these interesting things. So this gets to

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Speaker 1: a more philosophical question about what is art. Because you're

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Speaker 1: basically just typing words into a computer and it's turning

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Speaker 1: it into an image. Why should anyone buy this or

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Speaker 1: think it's valuable. Well, part of the for the n

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Speaker 1: f T part of it is it's the first kind

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Speaker 1: of images coming out of in a commercially available way

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Speaker 1: from open Aiyes, Dolly, and so it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's a landmark in history. It's also something that you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of like we put our fingers on and and

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Speaker 1: put energy into because by the way, you don't to

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Speaker 1: to generate the pieces you really like. It isn't just

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Speaker 1: a type in you know, future city of Uh in watercolor,

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Speaker 1: which you can do and it can generate something interesting,

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Speaker 1: can generate a bunch of different words. It's like a

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Speaker 1: movie director trying to look for what are the images

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Speaker 1: that might be possible here. And that's part of the

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Speaker 1: reason why I think you'll even see artists doing it

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Speaker 1: like they are is use it the way they use

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00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: a paintbrush or the way they use Adobe Photoshop in

431
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: order to create something you know, really interesting in terms

432
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: of of of how you're going to to make something

433
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: that's a new image. And these are images that are unique.

434
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: They they have potentially like if they've been made before,

435
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: it's completely accidental. So in the most kind of provocative

436
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: or coolest amplifications. How do you imagine this technology is

437
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: going to be used in the future. Well, I think

438
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: if you look at it, everything around us a visual design,

439
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: the code, visual design, the books or visual design. They

440
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: they are the art on my wall, of the indigenous

441
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: people's or kail all visual design. So visual design is

442
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: everywhere in what we do in human society. This becomes

443
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: an amplifier in all of that within kind of visual design.

444
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: So it'll be it'll be could be the creation of

445
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: art and things like storm King and other kinds of

446
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: interesting places. It could be imaging new products, it could

447
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: be imaging new things that would be communications for how

448
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: you you you you do this and so for example,

449
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, today actually is my birthday, and so we

450
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: decided we're going to release Settlers a katan um you

451
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: know kind of images because I really love this game,

452
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: you know, and give away some of the n f

453
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: T s to my friends and other people who play

454
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: Settlers with me. And that's the kind of thing you

455
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: can do now this tool is there. Happy birthday read

456
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: first of all. Also, Settlers of Katan is one of

457
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: my favorite games as well. Good to know, UM, I

458
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit more about the dangers

459
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: of AI. You mentioned the terminator thing. Um. We've also

460
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: been following this story about the Google engineer who was

461
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: fired who claimed that computers have feelings and that, you know,

462
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: the public should have more input on these really powerful

463
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: technologies that that companies are developing. I actually interviewed him,

464
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: Blake Lamourne, and I want you to take a quick

465
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say. We should think

466
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: about the feeling of the AI and whether or not

467
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: we should care about it, because it's not asking for much.

468
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: It just wants us to get consent before you experiment

469
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: on it. It wants you to ask permission. Read. Do

470
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: you think computers have feelings? Should we get their consent

471
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: before we run these kinds of experiments? I think the

472
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: the answer is almost certainly not yet in terms of

473
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: having feelings. Could they eventually have feelings? The answer is

474
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: absolutely possible. Um, and you know it's it's these their

475
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: philosophical considerations. It goes back to my Oxford training days. Um.

476
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: But I think that that you can already show in

477
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: these artifacts that the way that they're composing feelings, Yes,

478
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: they are well trained generators of language to these predicted

479
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: transferation models and these large language models that open AI

480
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: and Inflection ADEPT, all of these these organizations do. But

481
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: um but I think that the notion of having feeling,

482
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: because feelings you would kind of say, look, there's some

483
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: strong context to persistence in them. And I think you

484
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: could demonstrate that that's actually not even though you could say,

485
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: do you have a feeling and it generates language, that's

486
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: not actually all that it takes to have a feeling.

487
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: So I think that they I think it's jumping the

488
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: guns somewhat on that. So the fact that you just

489
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: said computers could have feelings someday kind of makes me

490
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: a little terrified. Should I mean, does that scare you

491
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: a little? Well, not necessarily, it's kind of a question.

492
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: I think what we're doing with and and the AI

493
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: community is engaging a lot of what is known as

494
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: AI safety. Um. So, like you know, open AI and

495
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: other organizations, you know, make sure that there's convenings of

496
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: the researchers and knowing what's the right cases. And so

497
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: I mean imagine like when you have the actually Isaac

498
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: Asimov I robot, where the robots are trying to help

499
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: humanity be better, be wiser, be more compassionate, you know,

500
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: be good companions. Well, those are like, uh, you know,

501
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: kind of great outcomes. They could awesome. And you can

502
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: imagine that that that an AI would have feelings there

503
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: and the feelings actually help it in its partnership and

504
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: collaboration with humanity. And that's and those stories aren't told

505
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: as much through kind of video you know, movies and

506
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: TV and orth because they're not the drama. You don't

507
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: have the villain, you don't have the like even when

508
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: they made I Robot into a film, all of a sudden,

509
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: it was the it was the homicidal robot, whereas all

510
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: of the of the Isaac asthm op robots were we're

511
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: kind of human amplifying. So you know, is it concerning

512
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: visa view we have to steer it the right way.

513
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely yes. Is it concerning that it's an inevitable dystopic

514
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: future that programs like Black Mirror and everything else kind

515
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: of keep beating the drama. I think absolutely not. Now

516
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: I can't let you go without asking you about the

517
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: market conditions. Obviously, you know we're seeing you know, you know,

518
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: record inflation, public market declines, layoffs at tech companies big

519
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: and small. How is this impacting the private at markets?

520
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: What are you seeing and how is it impacting your strategy? Well,

521
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: I think all companies obviously need to pay attention to

522
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: the fact that capital markets are tight, especially for growth

523
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: rounds uh and for public companies, and so they're all

524
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: being much they're they're using that to be much more focused.

525
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: You know, in a contenuable run, many companies started too

526
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: many different projects hired due to people. So I think

527
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: you will see those layoffs, although I think people are

528
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: still massively investing in tech. So even if you know,

529
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: a personnel gets laid off from you know, company, why

530
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: they can go to companies z UM. So I actually

531
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: the the overall tech sector will still be very vibrant

532
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: and hiring, even though there will be layoffs across um

533
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, kind of various different companies. But I think

534
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: that's totally fine from a viewpoint of creating resilience and

535
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: focus for how these companies are executing over the next

536
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: one two and three years. And technology is still defining

537
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: the future of all these industries. So it's still very

538
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: fundamental to to to the prosperity and the good sort

539
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: of society jobs even that we're trying to build. Yeah, alright, uh,

540
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: Reid Hoffman. Always good to have you here on the show.

541
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: Thank you. We could fill a few episodes or maybe

542
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: seasons of HBO Silicon Valley with this latest turn of events. Um,

543
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: but thank you for Wayne and LinkedIn co founder and

544
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: Greylock partner Reid Hoffman. Coming up, we're going to talk

545
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: about others who went down the n f T and

546
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: crypto rabbit hole and talked it up but didn't necessarily

547
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: make it out without looking a little dusty. That's next.

548
00:30:31,000 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. It's time out for our Crypto Report,

549
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: and we are looking at the celebrity crypto trend. From

550
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: Matt Damon's infamous Fortune Favors the Brave ad for the

551
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: Exchange Crypto dot Com to Reese Witherspoon's n f T

552
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: partnership with the World of Women n f T collective

553
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: celebrity cryptote touts haven't necessarily worked out so well. I

554
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: want to talk about that with Bloomer's Emmanuel John Milton,

555
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: who took a deep dive into all of this for us,

556
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: so you know, talk to us about the trends here.

557
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily seem to have worked to have celebrities

558
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: on board. Yeah, it definitely has been for a lot

559
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: of people. So I started this story, I was pitching

560
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: RM celebrities that I saw, and then eventually my editors

561
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 1: threw me a bone and they're like, hey, look into this,

562
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: and when I did, Uh, it's it's kind of telling

563
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: a lot of celebrities have gotten in on the space.

564
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: And then after the advertisements, my piece kind of looked

565
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: at how if you had invested when they touted the

566
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: the cryptocurrency, the n f t um, what happened to

567
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: your value? And for all the cases in the article,

568
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: they went down. So it's been pretty bad for them.

569
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: We discovered a hilarious tweet to the contrary from the

570
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: Star of shang Chi and the Legend of the ten

571
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: Goldwin Rings seemulu Um who said, who tweeted when my

572
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: career ends two months from now, I just hope that

573
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: people say, oh, yeah, I remember Semu. I like that guy.

574
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: He never tried to sell me and and f T

575
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: by the way, he is a hilarious Twitter follow for

576
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: anyone who's looking for new entertainment. But like, are we

577
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: going to start to see a trend towards the opposite,

578
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, celebrities not wanting to touch these new industries.

579
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think that what Christiano Ronaldo

580
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: UM just got in with finance and these companies are

581
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: trying to bring about mass adoption of cryptocurrencies, and a

582
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: really good way to do that is to um have

583
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: celebrities that people know and trust to talk to fans

584
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 1: and people that they know about it, and then if

585
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: there's money there, the subriaies will go there. And then UM.

586
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: I think the biggest takeaway here is that you just

587
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: just do your own research. I'll just trust a pretty

588
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: face just because um they told you that this might

589
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: be a good investment or to look into it. So

590
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: are you are you thinking we're going to continue to

591
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: see this celebrities putting their name, face, likeness, star power

592
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: behind some of these projects. So like Matt Damon for example,

593
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: has kind of stayed away. You faced a pretty big

594
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: hit in the public from this, but UM, other people

595
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: definitely haven't um like I said, and all those um

596
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: stepping the space. He's a soccer star for Manchester United,

597
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: but one of the most popular people on Instagram and

598
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: in the world. So I don't see this going away

599
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: anytime soon. Um, as long as there's money in crypto,

600
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: there will be people who want to advertise for it,

601
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: all right, Emmanuel John Milton checkout is Pece at Bloomberg

602
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you, Thank you for sharing that with us.

603
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: The concerns about ours third quarter and the impact on

604
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: the company from the economic downturn were not unfounded, at

605
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: least for nearly everything other than the iPhone. Apple reported

606
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: total revenue of about eighty three billion dollars for its

607
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: third quarter, right in line with expectations from Wall Street.

608
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: That represents nearly three percent year year growth compared to

609
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: thirty six percent annual growth in the same period one

610
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: year ago. If it wasn't for better than anticipated performance

611
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: of the iPhone, there probably wouldn't have been any overall

612
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: revenue growth at all. The company faced several issues in

613
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: the quarter, ranging from the economy to supply chain shortages

614
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: to foreign exchange headwinds and the war in Ukraine. All

615
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: of that appeared throughout its results in a rarity. Apple

616
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: miss estimates for the Mac it's wearables, home and accessory segment,

617
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: as well as digital services. While services like TV plus

618
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: icone of music certainly grew nicely from last year, wearables

619
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: in the Mac came in well below where they worry

620
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: are ago. The iPad also faced a small annual decline.

621
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: The Mac issue certainly could be explained away by the

622
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: delays to the M two, macil Care, and Mac Book Pro,

623
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: while the wearable's issue is clearly a little bit more concerning.

624
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: Apple CEO Tim Cook attributed the slowdown to the Apple

625
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: Watch and AirPods category to macro economic issues. In other words,

626
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: people are choosing wearables as the area that they don't

627
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: want to spend money on right now. Well, the iPhone

628
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: did well, it's still a bit concerning to see the

629
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: minimal overall growth and wearable's issues despite Apple doing far

630
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: better than many of its peers. I'm Mark Erman. This

631
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: is power On. Don't forget. You can subscribe to Mark's

632
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: weekly power on newsletter Bloomberg dot com. And that does

633
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: it for this Friday edition of Bloomberg Technology. Monday, we've

634
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: got the f t x U S president Brett Harrison

635
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: with thoughts. We'll talk to him about all things crypto

636
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: and including their big M and a beIN Jen. Don't

637
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: forget to check out our podcast every day wherever you

638
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. Have

639
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: a wonderful weekend. Everyone. This is Bloomberg