Speaker 1: This is cut to It with Steve Smith Senior at
Speaker 1: production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. I'm
Speaker 1: Steve Smith Senior, and and this is cut to it.
Speaker 1: Good do It, Good do It. They's getting down to
Speaker 1: do it. Good do it. We asked the questions you
Speaker 1: always want to know, but no one ever asked, let's
Speaker 1: cut to it. You ain't heard him about it, then
Speaker 1: we're about to let you know. It's all the glass
Speaker 1: of a dying breed to up to today's standards. He's
Speaker 1: not really known to be one of those guys who pats.
Speaker 1: He's a back pattern or congratulator, or he definitely is
Speaker 1: not introducing any participation trophies. Somebody even call him a bully,
Speaker 1: but us old school, we call him the Enforcer. And
Speaker 1: it's funny. His book it's called The Enforcers Enforcer A. K. Oaktree,
Speaker 1: a K A Mr No nonsense guy. Please welcome to
Speaker 1: the Cut to A podcast, Charles Oakley. Yeah, I say
Speaker 1: bully because according to the new standard with participation trophy type,
Speaker 1: the millennials, Um, you know, sometimes when you don't say
Speaker 1: the nice things to the right ears, they don't receive it.
Speaker 1: Well right, Well, I'm the station I mean is it is?
Speaker 1: It means that these days you don't see uh the
Speaker 1: old schools, uh, the working the hall. They had to
Speaker 1: put in the mag a song and you got everything
Speaker 1: in front of you, the make a song and they
Speaker 1: give me a pass. It's no hard work nor moment.
Speaker 1: So it's just I know it's a different style, right
Speaker 1: listen that. But you know, if you look back into
Speaker 1: how it started back in the early seventies up to
Speaker 1: probably two thousand, you know how they had to the manifold,
Speaker 1: the hooks, the rhyme, the style and create creativity to
Speaker 1: make a song. It's not their normal. Well let's let's
Speaker 1: jump right into it, um man. I I got some
Speaker 1: intail early this morning. Um so that made me kind
Speaker 1: of switch up a little bit of my icebreaker questions
Speaker 1: about you. When's the last time someone bawled money from
Speaker 1: from you? I mean that's every every um every other month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So did they say they're gonna pay it back? Are
Speaker 1: you looking for them to pay it back? There's different
Speaker 1: types of letting money these days. Some people you didn't
Speaker 1: until you don't. You know, you can just chalk it up.
Speaker 1: Some people, you know incredibilities. Some people don't, uh, just
Speaker 1: you know, you don't worry about serame things. But when
Speaker 1: someone got the money and don't pay you, it's a
Speaker 1: different story. Sometimes some people trying to use the money
Speaker 1: to get funding, better themself or get something started. I
Speaker 1: understand that you gotta know that expectation going into it. Yea.
Speaker 1: So if you were going to sail around the world,
Speaker 1: what's the name of your boat? All right? This last one?
Speaker 1: Are you a morning person or a night person? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: I'm twenty four hours m m okay life all right. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's a privilege and honor to talk to you. One.
Speaker 1: I'm old school. I was. I'm a old school type
Speaker 1: of guy. Show a guy like you being able to
Speaker 1: talk to you. Uh, it's pretty cool. It's really pretty
Speaker 1: cool for me. He's a conversation. Then you old school? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm old school. Like we don't like if we're going
Speaker 1: to Alabama, we don't seven to five, seven to one.
Speaker 1: We should put on a cruising from those about SI
Speaker 1: five seven and it's right al out. I like it.
Speaker 1: But if it's two brothers in Alabama, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: pulled over. I'll tell you, I'll tell you story about Alabama.
Speaker 1: I'll trought about eight nine years old. My brother was
Speaker 1: We were coming back Frown and then went to a
Speaker 1: service down there and it's like three cars and it
Speaker 1: wasn't like the cops got that got us from a plane.
Speaker 1: The tractors the speed from a plane and shut it down.
Speaker 1: They do that there a lot of Tennessee and that's
Speaker 1: how we got pulled over. But you know, they get
Speaker 1: all the tricks in the book. I mean they get
Speaker 1: to hide to get you this, and then you got
Speaker 1: likes to get the police. So I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's always something dirty going on, but it's like
Speaker 1: we live in we gotta get through it and hopefully
Speaker 1: that don't happen to one of us in a bad way. Hey,
Speaker 1: So I love this one. I like to ask people,
Speaker 1: especially old school guy like you, so you'll know, man,
Speaker 1: where are you from in the place you call your hometown?
Speaker 1: Born and raised in Cleveland? Oh wow, that's why I called.
Speaker 1: You know, they called the land Lebron changed the name
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting up part of that when I'm from Cleveland.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm a family visioned from the South York, Alabama.
Speaker 1: So I've been back and forth all my life. And
Speaker 1: U went to school in Virginia, Union Rich in Virginia.
Speaker 1: So I've been in the South a live in the
Speaker 1: North a lot. So like I said, I'm I'm going
Speaker 1: out of North and South. How do you balance being
Speaker 1: from originally your roots and your family being from the South,
Speaker 1: living on you know, being raised in Ohio. However, you
Speaker 1: know you are known for being the standard of a
Speaker 1: New York Nick and being in New York wears fast pace.
Speaker 1: Southern hospitality does not exist. You. You know, I've been
Speaker 1: in New York and several times with work, and I
Speaker 1: live in North Carolina now, and so I've I've adapted
Speaker 1: the Southern hospitality. And you know, you opened the door
Speaker 1: not just for a woman, but also for the elderly, right,
Speaker 1: and I've opened the door for the elderly. And they
Speaker 1: clutch they clutched their purse a little bit like you know,
Speaker 1: what what is he up to? How did you? How
Speaker 1: did you balance your roots Ohio, Alabama and New York?
Speaker 1: Balancing that? Well? I guess um, we can we can
Speaker 1: see at the triangle that some of the Knicks players
Speaker 1: could never learn. But from cleaning around New York basically
Speaker 1: all different Cleveland's you know more, Alabama South and New
Speaker 1: York is America. Whatever you wanted to be. Uh. In
Speaker 1: New York is you know, it's a fast place. Cleveland
Speaker 1: is in the middle of Alabama, a little slow, so
Speaker 1: small medium in large place. So basically all of them
Speaker 1: helped me in a way of my life was going.
Speaker 1: My grandfather and aunts and uncles in the South, and
Speaker 1: Cleveland will still have something doing. In New York the
Speaker 1: light is bright. But I'm ready for the challenge. So
Speaker 1: it helped me. I was ready for the moment anyway.
Speaker 1: It was when you when you built a certain way,
Speaker 1: and you you take your followers the steps to get
Speaker 1: and you listen to everyone coming up, and the installed
Speaker 1: all this into your mind, your brain, and you still
Speaker 1: stay in your place. Then where you go, you stay
Speaker 1: in your place. And then we try to, you know,
Speaker 1: shine and just sit back and relax and let it happen.
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. Uh when New York, I
Speaker 1: never tried to be all I gotta do all this,
Speaker 1: do all that, do what you can do. If you
Speaker 1: can't do it, you can't do it. So you talked
Speaker 1: about building. So what kind of kid was Charles Opley?
Speaker 1: I was a good kid. Uh, he said. My thing
Speaker 1: was I was told at early age when some mind
Speaker 1: said your name, don't don't say what start coming the
Speaker 1: time they you know, got something else to said you
Speaker 1: right there. And I know a lot of kids the
Speaker 1: day you gotta say they name three and full time,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have work when I was going up. So
Speaker 1: basically I was more of like I always following order,
Speaker 1: detail and like I said, looking around, see what's going around,
Speaker 1: trying to always keep myself in the right place, doing
Speaker 1: the right thing. Uh, you know, I was a worker,
Speaker 1: so and showing later my career it's all about work.
Speaker 1: When your mama used your full name, you better get
Speaker 1: over there. Mentioned around. Yeah, they say, you know, they
Speaker 1: called me junior, so junior. So when I know they
Speaker 1: said junior, they were They wasn't a lot of juniors around.
Speaker 1: So I just started walking towards the boys. Hey, uh,
Speaker 1: your mama, When you juior and you don't get over
Speaker 1: there quick enough, it ain't gonna be I'm talking to
Speaker 1: it ain't gonna be no more junior. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I just see how it was flows a lot. It
Speaker 1: was a lot of kids in the family, a lot
Speaker 1: of arts and uncles. So you know it was like
Speaker 1: we detail, you know, we had choices, we had stuff
Speaker 1: to do, so we knew what you had to do.
Speaker 1: And it was a kid. We had to walk up
Speaker 1: the road and help them to get the water bringing
Speaker 1: back to the you know, when we had our house
Speaker 1: and I was going up, you know, so everybody took
Speaker 1: a day doing their things. You've mentioned several times about
Speaker 1: your your grandfather, and my grandfather was very impactful and
Speaker 1: left for imprint on me. Um, I used the term grandfather,
Speaker 1: but you know, for me, it's no disrespect grandpa. You know,
Speaker 1: what what was your what was your you? You keep
Speaker 1: saying your grandfather? Man? What was your grandpa's name? Because
Speaker 1: I'm reading a lot of information and I hear they
Speaker 1: called they called Jewish mass He was one, he was
Speaker 1: eight his family, but he had eight kids. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I had five honths, three uncles, and um, you know
Speaker 1: he uh used all of them just one. The first
Speaker 1: house he had two rooms. About time I got holding up,
Speaker 1: and next I know, it's like four or five. He
Speaker 1: added on rooms like every other year until he had
Speaker 1: like a six severial house. Um, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: big four kids in the bed this and that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't know. Is your grandpa add on those rooms
Speaker 1: himself with him with some hands. He did it at
Speaker 1: a leadiate when he had time. Um, you know, he
Speaker 1: was working in the field. You know, he's going back
Speaker 1: and forth. He had to walk in first. He's you know,
Speaker 1: saving his money to do that. So he was walking
Speaker 1: back and forth to work at the early age. And
Speaker 1: he said his money, you know, he just to add
Speaker 1: a little time until he got it done. He was
Speaker 1: good with his hand, he was he was He was
Speaker 1: a hard worker. So he had you know, some of
Speaker 1: his kids growing up. They helped him after school. We
Speaker 1: went to the field or help him around the house
Speaker 1: when he you know, when he came home from work.
Speaker 1: And you know, he was always doing something not to
Speaker 1: be weak. What what does that mean for you particularly? Um,
Speaker 1: just you know when he came up and then back
Speaker 1: in this, I mean he's going nineteen o six nine,
Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, nineteen twelve, I mean back and then it
Speaker 1: was like, hey, it was like you know what we
Speaker 1: see from a lot of these old movies that you know,
Speaker 1: opportunity wasn't there and you had to give a lot
Speaker 1: just to get oil and when the little he did,
Speaker 1: he made the best of it. And and he told me,
Speaker 1: you know, as he got older, people so respecting him
Speaker 1: because he wouldn't. He wasn't a weak link. He doing that,
Speaker 1: you know, even though he had a lot, but he
Speaker 1: was about a lot. He's gonna stand for his family
Speaker 1: and his rights as long as he could. And most
Speaker 1: people back then died the same way he was his thoughts.
Speaker 1: He never got to the point of, you know, he died,
Speaker 1: but he told me about some people in the same situation.
Speaker 1: You know, he got a lynch down. I hear you
Speaker 1: know you're talking about don't be weak man. You hear
Speaker 1: about basketball players all the time. You know, you hear
Speaker 1: about Lebron talking about how you know he could have
Speaker 1: played football. You hear all these these guys talking about football.
Speaker 1: But I read when you you said playing football made
Speaker 1: you tough. I love that because a lot of basketball players,
Speaker 1: just athletes in general, we all believe we can do
Speaker 1: every sport right with with great cross crossing over. We're
Speaker 1: crossing over. Let's be honest. I watched enough basketball. I'm
Speaker 1: not a basketball g you know, Gerard are are are
Speaker 1: our co host man. Yet that he loves basketball. I
Speaker 1: get a lot of information from him, right, I'm just
Speaker 1: an average fan that watches. I don't I don't commentate.
Speaker 1: I don't have my two cents. Used to be a
Speaker 1: co worker. He was, he's been a year. So I
Speaker 1: just watch. That's all I do. I don't try to
Speaker 1: play coach or you know, some of these folks on
Speaker 1: the couch. But being a football player, former football player,
Speaker 1: and I watched some of these basketball players. How they
Speaker 1: hit the hole, and how they when they get filed,
Speaker 1: how they flop. Some of these guys ain't built to
Speaker 1: play football. I don't care how big they are. Going
Speaker 1: across the middle as a tight end. It wasn't gonna work.
Speaker 1: Wasn't gonna work. Mm hmm. That wasn't gonna work. Back
Speaker 1: in the eighties and nine. It's some have been playing basketball.
Speaker 1: You need talking about football, right, yeah? But football, I
Speaker 1: mean I was. I was that dude. I was that
Speaker 1: guy in football. I made it. I made a difference
Speaker 1: when I played, you know, power football to my high
Speaker 1: school with nine and one, So what possession work? I
Speaker 1: was a set down. I wasn't set down defense end.
Speaker 1: That was a defense on the right side. So you say, so,
Speaker 1: you had the quick hands. You had quick hands. I
Speaker 1: had the whole package. I like to play defense because
Speaker 1: I like to head so you can hit. I played office.
Speaker 1: You can hit on office to now that's this is
Speaker 1: a great. Then you can run down turning yard, downfield,
Speaker 1: do this, do that. But it's just different offense. You know,
Speaker 1: you got the state the state football. You can move around.
Speaker 1: But it was fun though. I mean, I just like
Speaker 1: practice because on the brain and day they make you
Speaker 1: practice mud when rain. So we a lot of guys like,
Speaker 1: please don't in the rain. But they're just toughen you up.
Speaker 1: We did a lot of things are toughen you up.
Speaker 1: So my college in high school coach was real. We
Speaker 1: turned down maybe it's about six pros in about ten years,
Speaker 1: you know, going to my high school. We turned out
Speaker 1: six guys went to college and went to pro. Which
Speaker 1: which guys though, uh. Tim McGee went to Tennessee with
Speaker 1: with uh since that being o. Anthony Handcock with the
Speaker 1: Kansas City John Hire went through our state first. He
Speaker 1: was up for the high school trophy. The one of
Speaker 1: the best tackles we got, uh done Carroll with the
Speaker 1: Florida we got one of the guys. It was, but
Speaker 1: he made it as a running back. So there's some
Speaker 1: talents in the hood. But there was a lot of
Speaker 1: talent back then. When I was like coming up, it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, everybody was like good side. Now
Speaker 1: you can back to high school, everybody might be six
Speaker 1: one hundred, seventy pound five and eleven hundred, you know,
Speaker 1: a small a linemans and stuff. Not not like I
Speaker 1: was in high school. So maybe have like two thirty
Speaker 1: They probably went down and wait, maybe my thirty pounds.
Speaker 1: That's a big difference when and play a big teams difference. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what led you to attend Virginia Union University? I've growing
Speaker 1: up just wanted to get out of Cleveland. They want
Speaker 1: to be part of it. Goes uh, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff was happening.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of my friends are growing up. Was
Speaker 1: they was heading to the jail house. So they're doting drugs,
Speaker 1: and you know, I escaped it, you know, rarely escaped it. Um.
Speaker 1: So when I went to Union, I wanted to go somewhere.
Speaker 1: I couldn't just come back two hours away. I want
Speaker 1: to go somewhere like you know eight and I was
Speaker 1: away and I'm glad I did because I only came
Speaker 1: back one time in four years, so I wasn't missing Cleveland.
Speaker 1: So I was trying to get somebody of Well in
Speaker 1: Virginia Union, you didn't have any other offers. I had
Speaker 1: a lot of offers. I said, I wanted to get
Speaker 1: away for like, I mean, that was I guess my
Speaker 1: college Kobe when he came to visit me, he drove
Speaker 1: it was a white guy. He drove away from Virginia
Speaker 1: to pick up a truck. And if the interview went
Speaker 1: away because he's a sturdy teller and you know, my
Speaker 1: mom in the union sitting there and just he was
Speaker 1: just presentation. I went to visit. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 1: a big school, like fifteen on the students though. Everything
Speaker 1: was just like okay, I could do this, I can
Speaker 1: do that. Classes take five minutes to get to him,
Speaker 1: and you know, just it was just something I didn't
Speaker 1: want to go out to be Some people have to
Speaker 1: take a bus to school, do this, you know, in college,
Speaker 1: do all this and all that. So everything was just
Speaker 1: right there. I didn't want to have, you know, a
Speaker 1: hiccup and like you know and blame somebody that you know,
Speaker 1: I took her something as to know what, it's easy.
Speaker 1: I can get to this building, that building, like sure,
Speaker 1: I got time. And then I didn't want to play
Speaker 1: football because I've seen the football players getting like poth
Speaker 1: thirty five o'clock in the morning going to practice. And
Speaker 1: then as in high school, we did see it after
Speaker 1: practice at me after school they do they're doing two
Speaker 1: days and getting up at five o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: I didn't mind that, but five o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: sending five degrees, yeah, seven. I want to pay dividends.
Speaker 1: I was just at the double Tournament up in Baltimore,
Speaker 1: and of course see all your your accolades been in
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame to see hot double A. So
Speaker 1: it definitely paid off dividends that decision. I was there.
Speaker 1: I was Jamie Wallert went in the Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: this year, so me Terry being you know, a j
Speaker 1: was you know in the Union. You know he went
Speaker 1: a few years ago. But quite a few guys and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, not just basketball, we got football, another major
Speaker 1: fel you know, the mayor and the mayor Richmond was
Speaker 1: um Virginia Union. I think he got you know, so
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the Hall of Fame, not
Speaker 1: just athletes, different positions, walk of life. Would you say
Speaker 1: today's process to get drafted is it is a little
Speaker 1: bit easier to indoor compared to what you had to
Speaker 1: go through. Um, it might be easier for us the
Speaker 1: major school, but not for the HBC's. It's still it's
Speaker 1: still it's still a tough role because, like I said,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a lot of covers. It's not a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, talent like it used to be
Speaker 1: in the in the big school. So you see the
Speaker 1: comparative in the big schools and they play a small school,
Speaker 1: they're not blowing them up by thirty or forty points.
Speaker 1: To mow, it's a good game maybe too, like five
Speaker 1: minutes going the game closed, going to halftime down five
Speaker 1: or six points. But the best athletes, they say, always
Speaker 1: gonna pull away. Then the best team you know, supposed
Speaker 1: to win. And then in the sports and Charles was
Speaker 1: a lottery picked too, So that's that's even more like
Speaker 1: remarkable to come from a smaller school hbc U and
Speaker 1: then be man, listen like that's what I'm saying. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like looking at your body of
Speaker 1: work and looking at the body of work of other
Speaker 1: guys that all the guys that come out of Kentucky,
Speaker 1: come out of Duke here in Charlotte, come out of U.
Speaker 1: N C. Chapel Hill. It's just they, you know, they
Speaker 1: come and go. Guys get drafted. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: re picking before they're and therefore before their Ricky contract
Speaker 1: even expires. You already have you already have a synopsis
Speaker 1: synopsis of is this guy gonna make it? Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: a guy in the ninth overall picking. I'm just looking
Speaker 1: at it just seems it just does it Today's world,
Speaker 1: it does not compute. And so I'm trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: other than you being Charles Oakley, other than you being
Speaker 1: who you are, how does the I'm not saying the
Speaker 1: next Charlee Okeley, but how do is a kid that's
Speaker 1: out of out of wants to get out of his
Speaker 1: town and he's enamored with the college scout that or
Speaker 1: a coach that is talking to him, but it's not
Speaker 1: one of those big one of those power five schools. Well,
Speaker 1: I think now, since a lot of things and change
Speaker 1: in the world since um George Floyd stuff from all
Speaker 1: these incidents, opportunities the doors like Dean Standers and George
Speaker 1: or you get all these guys going back to these
Speaker 1: histories Black College to open up opportunities for different athletes,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing. But Dion did that and then
Speaker 1: George you got uh and you three other guys too.
Speaker 1: I mean, so when you get big names, people follow names.
Speaker 1: It's still never let know what that one thing will
Speaker 1: never go away. My name goes so when people want
Speaker 1: to go so for d ND to do that and
Speaker 1: to George who uh he uh. When Hugh Jackson go
Speaker 1: back to a level to bring some pride back to
Speaker 1: these university and I think that that's a big start
Speaker 1: right there. But but when I was a Union, big
Speaker 1: house game, you had a lot of respect in the NBA. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the talent was a lot
Speaker 1: different though. You know, everybody like good size and Ralph talent,
Speaker 1: David Poe from the North of State talent got drafted
Speaker 1: to the Lakers second round. Then after I got drafted,
Speaker 1: Jamie got drafted to Jersey. Uh So, opportunity was there
Speaker 1: because they're seeing that going to the p i T
Speaker 1: Portsman Entertainment Invitation Tournament, guys was like, okay, the body's
Speaker 1: they got, you know, they can play a lot. And
Speaker 1: I remember my senior year, my Sawmore year, we tried
Speaker 1: to play Georgetown. They would say, we all just you know,
Speaker 1: we don't want to pay school like that because yeah,
Speaker 1: y'all were too good. You know, you have a chance
Speaker 1: to beating them. So you have a chance to beating
Speaker 1: the big school. Back then, they didn't play it. But
Speaker 1: as the time I went on, you see, and they
Speaker 1: started playing more Division three's the Division two because a
Speaker 1: lot of Division two had good playoffs. Division three was
Speaker 1: another lower level, so they wouldn't play us. And there
Speaker 1: after I left Virginia, come Well started playing union. They
Speaker 1: played for every four year we split. So they said,
Speaker 1: we can't play you off because they expect they will
Speaker 1: expect to beat you. They don't want you to beat
Speaker 1: them because if it used to be a warm up
Speaker 1: for the tournament play or whatever. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: just tough now that I went to the seat and
Speaker 1: they went to the game that you know, the athletes
Speaker 1: just like just like I don't know, it's it's just
Speaker 1: like not just small school having problem with athletes. It's
Speaker 1: just major schools are too because You're seeing these guys
Speaker 1: come out of the NBA the day they're getting drafted
Speaker 1: because the numbers who they played with a you, they
Speaker 1: sliding in. But now they get drafted to go to the
Speaker 1: the NBA is a little tough. They're not living up
Speaker 1: to the potential. I love Cut to It, and I
Speaker 1: love it even more when you download us and subscribe,
Speaker 1: and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie,
Speaker 1: where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram?
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Speaker 1: It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you
Speaker 1: can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com
Speaker 1: where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to
Speaker 1: us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my
Speaker 1: answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm here for, a brother cut to a
Speaker 1: Podcast dot Com. Well, I mean you started, so let's
Speaker 1: jump into it. Then we're talking about ball. I mean,
Speaker 1: you go to No. Ninth overall pick and you're drafted
Speaker 1: by your home team. But yeah, but yeah, by the
Speaker 1: time you feel a celebrating, you're right, should trade it
Speaker 1: to the Chicago Bulls. Walk us through that process. How
Speaker 1: did they work? Well? Number one, that they had the draft,
Speaker 1: they were sounds gonna go fourth round, third round, second round.
Speaker 1: So I didn't even go to New York to the draft.
Speaker 1: I went to my coach's house and we set up
Speaker 1: a camera and they had a phone line so when
Speaker 1: they call, you know, when they drafted me, you can call.
Speaker 1: That was a rotary phone. Was at a rotary phone?
Speaker 1: Was that a page or what kind of I didn't
Speaker 1: have a phone myself. They had my coaches house home number.
Speaker 1: Coach to the union home number. So so they called
Speaker 1: him and uh, they told us, well, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a it's gonna be a it's gonna be a draft
Speaker 1: in the trade. He's gonna trade me. The Bulls wanted me,
Speaker 1: but they thought there was a ten pick. The bull
Speaker 1: had the leven pick. For the bull thought the number
Speaker 1: ten pick was gonna take me. So they just traded
Speaker 1: nine for leven. So Keith Lee. They took Keith Lee
Speaker 1: at eleven and then they swapped Keith Flee. So Keith
Speaker 1: Flee with Alabama. He was like, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the big, big time guys then, but he felt his
Speaker 1: stock fails for some reason. But so we made the trains,
Speaker 1: and uh, I did the interview. You know, I have
Speaker 1: to do the interview a week later. You go up
Speaker 1: there to introduce you to the city, and that, this
Speaker 1: and that, and I got there. I told him, I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I'm ready to stay. They said we
Speaker 1: can go back and come back in two weeks. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm ready to stay. I'm I'm ready to get into
Speaker 1: it because I know I'm on the car and uh,
Speaker 1: my work is gonna start when I get there. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm wading the state and do anything. Actually, I can't
Speaker 1: to be ready for training camp. And so we just
Speaker 1: went from there and then August September, I met Mike
Speaker 1: was playing pick up. I was playing pick up with him.
Speaker 1: Then training camp started in in September. First we go
Speaker 1: out tower just went from there. After the dust is
Speaker 1: settled and you just mentioned it was a young upper
Speaker 1: coming team with Michael Jordan. What was your outlook on
Speaker 1: the Bulls after you just got drafted, Wow, it was
Speaker 1: it was. My little was like, hey, you got three
Speaker 1: power for when you draft and not so we was
Speaker 1: we were like grocer store. We were stocked the one
Speaker 1: product power forwards. I had to work my way down
Speaker 1: the ladder and you know how to training camp started
Speaker 1: this and that. Everybody like you know, they've been friendly,
Speaker 1: like sometimes in the rookies, they you know, sit in
Speaker 1: and show wait and see how you're gonna react this
Speaker 1: and that. But I went in there like, hey, they't
Speaker 1: know was stopping now. So I just went it full speed.
Speaker 1: And everything I was doing on the court, off the
Speaker 1: court early, staying late, working on my craft and about
Speaker 1: to All Star Break that year, they were I got
Speaker 1: a chance to start and then having a look back
Speaker 1: since you know, my whole career, I went from there.
Speaker 1: When did oak Charles Oakley become what we have seen
Speaker 1: from you with the New York Knicks? Like when when
Speaker 1: did I'm not saying that it wasn't there, but you
Speaker 1: know something, obviously every after he has that has that
Speaker 1: moment where they decide what kind of player they're going
Speaker 1: to be psychologically and also physically. Well, I knew my
Speaker 1: skill level when I got there, you know, I know,
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan was there, Queen Dayala Atlanta Ward. My thing
Speaker 1: was I average twenty four and seventeen months a year.
Speaker 1: I said, if I can get half of everything, I'm good.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, good pro like, have you
Speaker 1: know half you know half a twenty four and you
Speaker 1: know rebounds. I know I can rebound, so I know
Speaker 1: that going to Chicago Bull there we're gonna be no shots.
Speaker 1: I knew you scratch that off this right, Yeah, to
Speaker 1: them that I can play no matter, Well, Matt, I
Speaker 1: can play basketball. Show them that how I Q understood?
Speaker 1: You know, you know the plays and no no time
Speaker 1: of possession, of the clock, knowing who who, you know
Speaker 1: on the strength of weakness on the team. You know,
Speaker 1: just all the detail. That was real detail. And I
Speaker 1: think some guys get cut because they don't know details.
Speaker 1: You can be a planted you know this and that
Speaker 1: for newing details. Know what you're playing with it all time.
Speaker 1: You know where the ball should be going a certain
Speaker 1: times on shot clock, all the little small stuff. What
Speaker 1: I'm asking this dumb question and I'm okay with it,
Speaker 1: but what is basketball intelligence? Break that down for me
Speaker 1: just because I don't know this well. First of all,
Speaker 1: is I mean when you get know, five possessions, five
Speaker 1: positions on the court one to five even though you
Speaker 1: ain't playing it, but you still got no one know
Speaker 1: what the comeback. It's always a counter every play. What
Speaker 1: can do is that i Q, because you know sometimes
Speaker 1: you might get come down the court and you got
Speaker 1: to say you have five, but you're in a two position.
Speaker 1: You gotta know what the to do. And all that's
Speaker 1: knowing the smart and you know, like I said, knowing
Speaker 1: what guys will come into the of the bench where
Speaker 1: they can do good and just know, like I said,
Speaker 1: with the team concept, what you're looking for gaming and
Speaker 1: game out the type of temple. Oh, you won't who
Speaker 1: you're playing against. You still gotta play with intelligence. Do
Speaker 1: you think it's more needed now or back then when
Speaker 1: you played? You have no need? You said, you don't
Speaker 1: know why? Why? Why not? Well, if he wants the game,
Speaker 1: you can tell i Q. You can see air ball.
Speaker 1: They saying you look at the game, just look at
Speaker 1: the man who you're playing. You can just see it.
Speaker 1: The same effect. You're gonna see four or five turnover
Speaker 1: in the first three of three minutes of the game,
Speaker 1: three or four a air balls, five or six miss
Speaker 1: free throw. All this in the first five or six
Speaker 1: minutes of the game. And now back in the days,
Speaker 1: most tournalmen you can have is twelve in the game.
Speaker 1: You get six in the first six minute of game.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna wait two over the morgue in
Speaker 1: the game. Free throws that don't count. I mean, back
Speaker 1: in the days, every possession came down to just about
Speaker 1: two or three possession. So if you missed sixtem free
Speaker 1: throws by you know, in one quarter, they're gonna kill
Speaker 1: you for winning the game. So just it's just a
Speaker 1: lot of it's it's just I heard a commentator said
Speaker 1: one game like, well, since he handled the ball, somebody
Speaker 1: he can, it's okay for six I'm trying over. I mean,
Speaker 1: imagine handling the ball on the i Q. You know,
Speaker 1: two or three turnovers at the most, not six, seven, eight.
Speaker 1: But that's the new ball game. Now. You can miss
Speaker 1: eight throws and a half and lose by three points.
Speaker 1: And one of while he lost, I mean it was
Speaker 1: you lose about two points. That's how you lost. But
Speaker 1: they don't they don't put it in the analytical mocals.
Speaker 1: They want to swoo threes. They wanted to change the
Speaker 1: dynamic game to analytic game. And well they only do
Speaker 1: atlantic for three quarters, not fourth quarter on the why
Speaker 1: because the fourth quarter of the bad quarter. The book
Speaker 1: is called the Last Enforcer. What what was the premise
Speaker 1: when you started going down this path to write in
Speaker 1: the book? What what did you want the purpose of
Speaker 1: the book to be. Well, you know, over my career,
Speaker 1: I know everybody is you know, he played about Ford,
Speaker 1: he through this that. I just wanted to know how
Speaker 1: I was brought up through the family, Um what I
Speaker 1: went through a versus through my journey to the NBA
Speaker 1: atop you know, being on the back page or the
Speaker 1: New York Time to Post whatever magazine for you know,
Speaker 1: the ten years other day in New York. I just
Speaker 1: wanted people to see that it was. It wasn't either
Speaker 1: ride you know, um, you know, like first like that,
Speaker 1: like what went to college? My first I had to
Speaker 1: cast the Greyhound. You know, just different stuff. And in
Speaker 1: this book just like you know, it's really gonna incite
Speaker 1: to you, like you know, the stirs and the running
Speaker 1: with people and you know, I still stay on the
Speaker 1: course or you know, being this guy who's gonna handling
Speaker 1: business no matter what got in my weight. So you're
Speaker 1: talking about you know, some of that. It was something
Speaker 1: I'm pulling out and not to talk about him, but
Speaker 1: it really triggered me because some people and they read it,
Speaker 1: they go wow, really, But it's also one of those
Speaker 1: things where I believe that the average fan doesn't really
Speaker 1: understand it. Right when you're talking about Patrick Hewing, how
Speaker 1: lazy he was, and I've played with players and I'm
Speaker 1: not naming, but I played with players and also fans
Speaker 1: A go I name Patrick. Yeah, I know it's okay. Listen,
Speaker 1: his book says outrageous stories. He wants you to know that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it, but I'm hey, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: almost getting to your to your level of age. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm tiptoeing in the forty three this year,
Speaker 1: so I got a little ways to go, right, Um.
Speaker 1: But I one of the things that sat with me,
Speaker 1: it's people. Some people are like, he's a Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: how is he? How is he lazy? That's the gift
Speaker 1: of basket of anybody where his gifts we're good enough
Speaker 1: that he didn't have to work hard. But there are
Speaker 1: players who have who don't have the gifts. I believe
Speaker 1: I didn't have the gift. I had to work extremely hard,
Speaker 1: harder than the other person who didn't have it. Obviously
Speaker 1: because of my lack of height, all of that stuff,
Speaker 1: and we're in the same kindgory too. Yeah, but people,
Speaker 1: people are gasping, I'm still working, you know something. But
Speaker 1: see that that is what you're just saying. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: like when they like back in the eight is and
Speaker 1: none is. See it was a selfish lead. So I'm
Speaker 1: talking in a way that I've seen it how selfish
Speaker 1: guys was and he was taking the wrong way. He
Speaker 1: wasn't just my teammate. It was all the stupid stars
Speaker 1: of selfish in the eight is and None. Why do
Speaker 1: you have another Why do you think that because he
Speaker 1: was just how to leave was trans you know, transparens
Speaker 1: back then. Because my thing is every team has systems
Speaker 1: and the first two guys the ball had to go
Speaker 1: through between it when like coming down shooting quick three
Speaker 1: those shots. Everything was controlled even off the court, meets
Speaker 1: and teams, you know, like I said, we have a
Speaker 1: team appearance and stuff, all that stuff. Everything was so controlling.
Speaker 1: And you know, but your dream team you all Star.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I remember Jim Jackson had a twenty
Speaker 1: nine points and the leading leading score. They make the
Speaker 1: All Star team because his name, he wasn't one of
Speaker 1: the guys they went by they had they they had
Speaker 1: their few guys on every Eastern West. They're gonna make
Speaker 1: it no matter what they stat was. They started changing
Speaker 1: a little more at the two you know, late nineties,
Speaker 1: two thousand's, you know, but it was so controlling and
Speaker 1: then each organsta each was controlling and you know, like
Speaker 1: now you go to a gift shop, you might have
Speaker 1: everybody's jergy in there. Back when we play and New York,
Speaker 1: we want to have Patrick m for now in my
Speaker 1: ten years, maybe my last year there or whatever. Once
Speaker 1: we went to the finals, might I had minds and
Speaker 1: then John maybe, but they didn't do the team thing.
Speaker 1: Weren't the unity thing was just one guy. You know,
Speaker 1: if you went on the All Star team, your jersey
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be nowhere around. But it was like that.
Speaker 1: It was it was I'm telling you know. They that
Speaker 1: was like Lebron. All of them guys speak up about
Speaker 1: different topic, different you know eight and that that guy.
Speaker 1: Everybody the might was had tape folders. They speak about
Speaker 1: no issues, that what's going on in the industry. I
Speaker 1: think they were spoke up more back then. A lot
Speaker 1: of this way basketball and now I wouldn't be the
Speaker 1: same because it be a little more structured. You know,
Speaker 1: I think it's we're going now is you know, like
Speaker 1: step kerr had fit the points in the All Star Game,
Speaker 1: his sixteen threes. These kids can't make these threes, but
Speaker 1: they're trying them. Then, team you got suiting the Pacis
Speaker 1: from the free throw line, but they want to shoot
Speaker 1: through you. You got three points right there, they free
Speaker 1: right there, but you rather pull up for the three
Speaker 1: and like he said, you know you people don't run
Speaker 1: an offense no more. It's it's one on one. It's
Speaker 1: it's I hate watching hurting teams that think they like
Speaker 1: something like Okay, look at Memphis, what they're doing. Look
Speaker 1: at Chicago, Look at they're doing. Look what h Chicago, Cleveland,
Speaker 1: they're going back to the you know, powerful and center
Speaker 1: and their line up. They're trying to just shoot through.
Speaker 1: They trying to work the ball around to the you know,
Speaker 1: a little good shot. You know you're following that gold State, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Golden State, but they want a championship. They weren't taking three,
Speaker 1: they were taking the best available shot. It's it's they
Speaker 1: want a lot of showmanship and games now they want
Speaker 1: a lot of high scooling game they won't dunks, they
Speaker 1: won't Oh um, if you want to listen to these
Speaker 1: I was watching the game. Was it last night or something?
Speaker 1: I was trying to watch the game, but I think
Speaker 1: of the Lagos game. What's up? It's just like I was,
Speaker 1: most of you just watched highlights because it's hard to
Speaker 1: watch the whole game. H I don't know, y'all what
Speaker 1: y'all looking to gal i' looking for a good dcl
Speaker 1: either game like it's not it's hard to watch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: says that says a lot. It says a lot from
Speaker 1: Charles perspective playing in the in the nineties, playing when
Speaker 1: you played a spectacular era in basketball NBA to where
Speaker 1: today he's like, I don't even know if what do
Speaker 1: you know? What I love about back then basketball which
Speaker 1: is different from today today. Everybody wants to be a hero.
Speaker 1: I love watching the Knicks, the Pacers, right, the Bulls,
Speaker 1: each team they were either the villain or think about
Speaker 1: as they like it was it was a sure man
Speaker 1: Lex Luger. But when you watch ball to day, everybody
Speaker 1: wants to be superman. You couldn't wait for Reggie to
Speaker 1: go into Madison Square Garden because you know that that's
Speaker 1: a real rivalry. But you know one thing, I mean,
Speaker 1: I might say about this day and age, and I
Speaker 1: age you got more freedom. Man. Back then it wasn't
Speaker 1: no freedom too, you know, just they got more freedom.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can come down and shoot the three
Speaker 1: and don't even care if he missed two or three
Speaker 1: in a row. You shoot another one happened in nineties.
Speaker 1: If you if you didn't that in the nineties, what
Speaker 1: would happened? You know, they're gonna snatch you out. You
Speaker 1: got Joel and B three or four games. You got
Speaker 1: Joel and B running point. It's just it's just that's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: He told me. He told me that. I said, up
Speaker 1: two years I think it was two years ago. He
Speaker 1: shouldn't be the next World Chamber. Just average fifty with
Speaker 1: just all lay up and filing guys out came about
Speaker 1: stopp him. Nobody, nobody cut Let's get down to do. Hey, Gerard,
Speaker 1: why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing?
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast
Speaker 1: dot com where we have exclusive merchandise shout out to
Speaker 1: our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: can go on, buy you a T shirt, Subscribe to
Speaker 1: us wherever you listen to podcasts. What makes a team
Speaker 1: special and special? Um? Special players? Memphis, Uh, Chicago special
Speaker 1: when Zack Zack, Marazine and the Roles are playing. I
Speaker 1: mean they got special two players, a Phally especial. Now
Speaker 1: you know, it's just on the team to make it special,
Speaker 1: not go out before. I don't think Phoenix special. They
Speaker 1: just a team that play well together. Especially you guy
Speaker 1: have it that it? I mean Booka is that it?
Speaker 1: But he don't get his credit for some reason. Huh,
Speaker 1: I said, why is that? I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of guys went through that round. Like I said,
Speaker 1: Jim Jackson, I mean, can can score all. I don't know, Books.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just something about it. I mean they're
Speaker 1: gonna you gotta just you know, like I said, All Star,
Speaker 1: there's no way Wicked Sidney been starting All Star. I
Speaker 1: don't get that one. But the fans voted for him.
Speaker 1: But I think that Bogle definitely him mc clayton best
Speaker 1: two best two guards on the West. When Clayton right now,
Speaker 1: he definitely hand down the best to guard right in
Speaker 1: the league right now. So Aga in your book, The
Speaker 1: Last Enforcer, Outrageous Stories from the life and Times of
Speaker 1: one of the NBA's fierce competitors, with the forward by
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's and in collaboration with award winning sports writer
Speaker 1: Frank I Sola, Why did you why did you want
Speaker 1: both MJ and Frank to to have that forward in
Speaker 1: your book? Um? For Frank, he was a bet writer
Speaker 1: in New York. I end the people, maybe six different guys,
Speaker 1: and uh, I just felt comfortable with him. He knew
Speaker 1: about me, he knew uh you know, and being in
Speaker 1: New York what I've been through, and we had a
Speaker 1: good you know, we had a good little core and
Speaker 1: him over the years, you know. And for the MJ
Speaker 1: doing it for its just so when I would have,
Speaker 1: you know, someone been in my corner and someone was
Speaker 1: in my back and someone I knew I could kindo.
Speaker 1: So when I called him to do the four when
Speaker 1: we're like, okay, how many days before you need it?
Speaker 1: And then asked me nothing. He didn't even have a
Speaker 1: book before. He just got a book, probably the same
Speaker 1: time y'all got the book. How did y'all hit it
Speaker 1: off so well? You? M J? Probably in the book
Speaker 1: I talked a little about it, but probably just seeing
Speaker 1: how I was as a as a you know team
Speaker 1: I got coming in from a small school UM Virginia Union,
Speaker 1: and seeing that my consistency for being on early come
Speaker 1: you know, knowing knowing the plays, working afterwards, just being
Speaker 1: a hummer, you know, didn't like they call a filers
Speaker 1: call something practice and you know, like this said now
Speaker 1: and just kept playing, just kept the same attitude and
Speaker 1: just just being a grown man in a different in
Speaker 1: a different appo field. Like I said, all of them
Speaker 1: guys went the Division one school. I went to Division two.
Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't fear me because and like my
Speaker 1: journey from coming out my senior year was I played
Speaker 1: against a lot of Division one guys in the All
Speaker 1: Star Games, and I helped my own so one got
Speaker 1: to the pro. I know, it's different. I had the
Speaker 1: man power, so I just kept it going. You know,
Speaker 1: just knew how to work the work. It's all about work,
Speaker 1: especially you know, uh back then, you gotta know how
Speaker 1: to work. Could plain, We're gonna get it. I just said,
Speaker 1: to show him that he was tougher than tougher than
Speaker 1: the next guy. Going through going back of your career
Speaker 1: and doing the book, did you have any moments where
Speaker 1: you just started to start to have any regrets or thought, man,
Speaker 1: maybe I should have did it this way versus that way.
Speaker 1: That's that's real stuff. I mean, I didn't ain't twice.
Speaker 1: It's a lot more I could have put in about
Speaker 1: wait for the next one. It's it's and if you
Speaker 1: think this one, the next one really gonna be juicy.
Speaker 1: We got so wait, wait a minute, we do we
Speaker 1: get the exclusive? Did we just get? I guess some Hey,
Speaker 1: this just to get you in the theater. Then I
Speaker 1: started singing, day that's when you like that one. Well,
Speaker 1: I started singing, I'm just being I've been nice. Really,
Speaker 1: this book real nice because like I said, I can
Speaker 1: crank it up here. I could. I could be like
Speaker 1: a go go bad to d C. I can crank
Speaker 1: it up. So it was it was smoller than me
Speaker 1: because I remember everything. I had notes that that isn't that.
Speaker 1: But I had fun. You know. My thing is these
Speaker 1: stores in this okay, last the stories in the book,
Speaker 1: it's just like wow. So the stories just like every
Speaker 1: time I was on the story like I was, you know,
Speaker 1: it was people there, like the one in the garden
Speaker 1: when the all the guys on death Row all of
Speaker 1: them came and like push us in one room. Then
Speaker 1: I've seen the guy in Dallas. But Dion saying nothing
Speaker 1: that out of this and that it was. It just
Speaker 1: came easy because it's so real. It was so the
Speaker 1: story is so real. And the other good thing were
Speaker 1: everyone in my story. It was someone condentified. You know,
Speaker 1: some people like well and I just tried to set
Speaker 1: something to get somebody to come to the you know,
Speaker 1: buy the book. Uh, you know said he had some
Speaker 1: good story. Now all these are my real stories. So
Speaker 1: you really did toss uh Charles Barkley out there at
Speaker 1: the club. I just smacked him. And you know that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I'm saying, toss hibout the club. I
Speaker 1: was trying to be nice. So you smacked him. He
Speaker 1: didn't like flinch back. He just took the smack. I
Speaker 1: smacked Hi when they had a seating way for the
Speaker 1: meeting store. That's a business man just got smacked and
Speaker 1: he just took one of them so chucking. Hey, Chuck
Speaker 1: is on TNT high behind the glass. That's all the
Speaker 1: time he do it talking because Chelly talking that madcash. Okay,
Speaker 1: we all know what that means. We don't know what
Speaker 1: that means what we did. But we didn't do it
Speaker 1: with the piscil. We did it with what you put down.
Speaker 1: We put sleep for sein. We came to this name
Speaker 1: because we can't stop with what say. No, that's that,
Speaker 1: that's the anti hermit, which now I'm hitting on this.
Speaker 1: You finally got it, didn't you know? That's the that's
Speaker 1: the bully I'm talking about. That's the old school. That's
Speaker 1: the old school, and not bullying a negative way. I
Speaker 1: just mean bullying. I stick to what I say, and
Speaker 1: what I say is what I mean. Yeah, man, that
Speaker 1: was enforced to what I say. That's what I'm talking
Speaker 1: about me really, because you even talk about in the
Speaker 1: in the book, you talk about you know, vets control
Speaker 1: in the locker room, even from when Scottie Pippot first
Speaker 1: got into the locker room, when you were with the
Speaker 1: bulls like you you you with the vet control in
Speaker 1: the locker room. I mean, I would tell you it's
Speaker 1: in the book. But the time when I was a
Speaker 1: rookie and you know you got I carre the bags
Speaker 1: two times just you know, say hey, I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: the right thing. And the time when I missed the
Speaker 1: first bus I got on the second bus, they try
Speaker 1: to go at me a little bit, and then we
Speaker 1: got to the rido that I had to rush in
Speaker 1: the change to get taped. And then they said, now rookie,
Speaker 1: you can't get taped. And I said, if I don't
Speaker 1: get taped, and nobody getting taped. But that's what I
Speaker 1: got book, I said, I took all the tape, me
Speaker 1: through and the guy, but yeah, I ain't getting tape nobody.
Speaker 1: We all, we all. So the next practice we had,
Speaker 1: everybody was in that room. I wanted their head so
Speaker 1: in practice they can't do them too you, So I
Speaker 1: just wanted their heads and practice, I said, next time,
Speaker 1: open to the table. You're gonna saying about that tape?
Speaker 1: Are you? So I got a bad in practice because
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't no leons that day. You weren't
Speaker 1: even a free throw that day. I'm sending all this
Speaker 1: down shoot if you want. Man, Yeah, we we definitely
Speaker 1: got to get you with this second book, because we're
Speaker 1: there's so many we probably don't even have enough time
Speaker 1: to getting all these stories. There's so many names. Now,
Speaker 1: Brad Doherty, you know, he was with he got drafted,
Speaker 1: he was with Cleveland man. He was a big he
Speaker 1: was a big guy. Right, you're you're a big guy.
Speaker 1: Tell us some of the big guys that you you
Speaker 1: had to bang with in the post that just they
Speaker 1: were soft. Just be honest, like plays look like Tarzan,
Speaker 1: play like I like, I like Brad Dorton. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying brand I'm just talking about just overall. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean a lot of like you said,
Speaker 1: they blow the whilst a and you know they blow me.
Speaker 1: If I was an offensive guy, and some of the
Speaker 1: guys I played against, if I got much called them,
Speaker 1: I probably my better player. I've probably been like a player.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm probably be be minded player. But I
Speaker 1: don't mind. I set my role. I don't have to
Speaker 1: be a player. My key thing, well, I made him
Speaker 1: respect me. Anybody wouldn't level. I just made him respect me.
Speaker 1: So I don't have respect, you know. I know, I
Speaker 1: you know, make some money some of these guys, but
Speaker 1: it's all good. Just respect me. You know, I put long,
Speaker 1: I can put my own key in my door and
Speaker 1: turning and going somehow house. I was good. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go off some names and and you tell me first
Speaker 1: thing to pop in your mind, David Robinson, I like
Speaker 1: that Robert, good hearted guy until he said he made
Speaker 1: a comment about something that I never was thought he
Speaker 1: would speak up because I never heard him talking in
Speaker 1: his whole career about the top of it. And I
Speaker 1: just want saying like I like him, and to that point,
Speaker 1: I still like him, but he just I never thought
Speaker 1: he would get into the controversial conversation about what something
Speaker 1: was happening. And I just said, wow, I was olvera
Speaker 1: heard the whole I said this to the paper. I said,
Speaker 1: I wish I would have heard this whole career speak
Speaker 1: up while I speak up eighteen years later. So he's
Speaker 1: a great player. Achimalajuan, Top three Folds, Sinners, that well man.
Speaker 1: Listen some of those low post movies that that dream had,
Speaker 1: that dreamshake it was, it was. It was a dream
Speaker 1: to watch. He left some nightmares. That's bass Pastrick. He
Speaker 1: should know he's sniping. Now. Uh, let's see, let's see,
Speaker 1: let's see. Um, let's go with Sean Kimp. I like
Speaker 1: Sean Kimp, so this would be a good comparison. Sean
Speaker 1: Kimp but a Greek freak oh Man. In my personal opinion,
Speaker 1: Greek has gotten so much better. His game has got
Speaker 1: I can see that now. I'm sing. They were a
Speaker 1: lot of like, yeah, you don't think so, I thought
Speaker 1: Sean would. I think Sean younger was a lot more
Speaker 1: raw and less hesitant than the Greek freak when he
Speaker 1: was younger Greek freak, So you don't think he wasn't
Speaker 1: hesitant and didn't have two years. He's really got in
Speaker 1: his he's in his bag these last couple of years.
Speaker 1: I just even when Sean wasn't even when he was hesitant,
Speaker 1: he he would go. He would attack absolutely, like if
Speaker 1: he knew he didn't have no he was his jumper
Speaker 1: was off, which was a lot I'm go on you
Speaker 1: several times. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, he was gonna make you
Speaker 1: work on the back end and play some defense Greek.
Speaker 1: And sometimes he earlier on, he would disappear in the game.
Speaker 1: Yeah you gave me seven seven feet in yonder and disappear.
Speaker 1: He figured what he did to Felix fit some points
Speaker 1: without the three and making some sam teams, some free
Speaker 1: throws and twos, and he just took old we just
Speaker 1: went down hill. He made Aiden looked like he was
Speaker 1: he was there sitting for Phoenix. So he definitely improved.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this first to it. I made a
Speaker 1: statement about he wouldn't have started back in the ages
Speaker 1: and nothing, and they went crazy about it. But my
Speaker 1: thing is, if you look at the game back then,
Speaker 1: so Jerry Coole was the number one pick, she walat
Speaker 1: you know these guys you do, you had to be good.
Speaker 1: They ain't get you three years to get good. That's different.
Speaker 1: He got the thirty fourth field. This guy was good
Speaker 1: coming out of the gate. And the fans don't get
Speaker 1: like he wud had a hard time back then. Bill Lambier,
Speaker 1: I like lamb Bill. He never did nothing to me,
Speaker 1: So I ain't got any this man said about saying
Speaker 1: anything bad. I'm just I know a lot of people like,
Speaker 1: oh he played there. Yeah, he don't. Like I said.
Speaker 1: People don't let you do lambre do something dirty and
Speaker 1: you don't do somebody to him. You let him do it.
Speaker 1: So okay. But he never went out of his way
Speaker 1: to do nothing to me. He changed the game with
Speaker 1: this guy, you mean well changing He changed the game.
Speaker 1: Cry changed the game. I mean right now the Greeks
Speaker 1: were changing of the game because he he getting thirty
Speaker 1: some points a night with the ease nobody's nobody helping
Speaker 1: out on defense. No more, there's no help out once
Speaker 1: you be the one guy. It's a dunk. It's more.
Speaker 1: I say, it's so most dunc and I ain't see
Speaker 1: this is don't get it. Dune comes ups. That was
Speaker 1: a stinker. So, I mean you've had You've talked about
Speaker 1: some of your altercations, so you've ben't smacked up. But
Speaker 1: one thing I pulled out of the book is you
Speaker 1: also present at the nine Source Awards, a classic year
Speaker 1: in hip hop. You talked about Tupac being in the room,
Speaker 1: Biggie being in the room, and this is right before
Speaker 1: their deaths. Speak on that a little bit. That to
Speaker 1: me just is just so robust of a story that
Speaker 1: that you were able to present and be in the
Speaker 1: room at that time, you know, in that era hip hop. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and the book we talked about that. But it
Speaker 1: was a lot of tension, you know, Uh, Jethro had
Speaker 1: a hunting some guys that came in from New York
Speaker 1: and get the Woutane. You got this this level of
Speaker 1: puffet with this group you got, I mean just all
Speaker 1: New York, all the different girls. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of tension and not just like I can't believe basically
Speaker 1: they still they really. I think they pumped New York,
Speaker 1: you know, by going on stage Snoop sing y'all. Don't
Speaker 1: love Snoop Dog You're in New York, I said in
Speaker 1: the book, like why should you love to get your
Speaker 1: ward and going back home? I mean, I ain't gonna
Speaker 1: love you. I mean it's just like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I spent a lot of stuff in New York.
Speaker 1: I never would believe what happened. It happened, So I
Speaker 1: can see why that happened. You know, when people started
Speaker 1: to start, you know, taking over your turf, and you
Speaker 1: don't fight back the right way. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: You know that again the two part the new leg life.
Speaker 1: In a way that something probably transparent from what happened,
Speaker 1: not just that night, but altogether. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: something built up to both of them life. That's why
Speaker 1: they're not here today. Well, I'm gonna just tell you, man,
Speaker 1: it's been a it's been a pleasure man, just to
Speaker 1: talk to you. And here here the stories. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: really really interested in diving deep diving in a book
Speaker 1: just to hear and look at just the stuff that's
Speaker 1: not making it, the little small things that you know
Speaker 1: that you talk about, you know, knowing the details. There's
Speaker 1: a lot in that book of knowing the details that
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be at what we call click bait
Speaker 1: because it's not juicy enough. But it's transparent, it's textural.
Speaker 1: It's textural that gives the essence of who you are, man.
Speaker 1: And so for us to have you on cut to it, man,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's an honor just because I use the
Speaker 1: word bully, but it's more of just saying that old school,
Speaker 1: old school, old school flavor o school stuff. No matter
Speaker 1: how current, how provocative, or how extravagant and nice new
Speaker 1: things are, the old school stuff is what we always
Speaker 1: go back to. And and and your old school do man,
Speaker 1: and and um so, Man, it's just it's just kind
Speaker 1: of cool to sit here and and talk to you
Speaker 1: because I remember you're the type of players my grandpa
Speaker 1: in football and basketball. I say, look, you want to
Speaker 1: play ball. These are the men you have to mirror
Speaker 1: your game after. Right, They hit first, ask questions last,
Speaker 1: and when they make a mistake, hey they made a mistake,
Speaker 1: but they hit you in them out first. Nobody saying
Speaker 1: what you just said. But mostly people want to I
Speaker 1: get that a lot. You know, people just hard work
Speaker 1: or do this and that, but most people want remember
Speaker 1: the game had someone sexy doing this and that. But
Speaker 1: I get a lot like just the hard work. That's
Speaker 1: how you take the charge and do this and that.
Speaker 1: A lot of people I didn't. I was the similar
Speaker 1: player to you, and I did that. I made my
Speaker 1: team better about doing all these things I'm saying, I
Speaker 1: appreciate it goes. I didn't look at it like I
Speaker 1: had to score twenty points. Everything I looked at I
Speaker 1: had to get my team going, had to set the tone.
Speaker 1: So my thing is, yeah, you don't get a lot
Speaker 1: of trains of doing what you're doing, but somebody always
Speaker 1: watching you. That's what somebody always watching you because you
Speaker 1: mean something, not don't nothing the matter. They can talk
Speaker 1: you down, but you know what you know what you
Speaker 1: can do, do it, do be consistent with what you do.
Speaker 1: That's all. So if you couldn't do it, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: pick you. You with me playing so to you, than
Speaker 1: you are man. You are a unique person. You are
Speaker 1: well worth it, You are competent, and most of all,
Speaker 1: your Lovable. I'm Steve Smith, singer, I'm Gerald Little John
Speaker 1: and this is cut to It. Cut to It with
Speaker 1: Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of
Speaker 1: Cut to It LLC, Balto Creative Media, The Black Effect
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It.
Speaker 1: Executive producer Steve Smith, Singer co host Gerard Little John,
Speaker 1: talent in booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley
Speaker 1: Robinson and John Show from Balto Creative Media. Cut to
Speaker 1: It is produced by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with
Speaker 1: production assistance by Alex Lebrec. Production Coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme
Speaker 1: music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton.
Speaker 1: You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let
Speaker 1: you know. It's all