WEBVTT - Charles Oakley 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:02.600 This is cut to It with Steve Smith Senior at 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:08.879 production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. I'm 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.000 Steve Smith Senior, and and this is cut to it. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.919 Good do It, Good do It. They's getting down to 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.720 do it. Good do it. We asked the questions you 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.200 always want to know, but no one ever asked, let's 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.840 cut to it. You ain't heard him about it, then 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:40.200 we're about to let you know. It's all the glass 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.880 of a dying breed to up to today's standards. He's 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.199 not really known to be one of those guys who pats. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.440 He's a back pattern or congratulator, or he definitely is 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:59.000 not introducing any participation trophies. Somebody even call him a bully, 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.520 but us old school, we call him the Enforcer. And 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:11.640 it's funny. His book it's called The Enforcers Enforcer A. K. Oaktree, 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.840 a K A Mr No nonsense guy. Please welcome to 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:26.440 the Cut to A podcast, Charles Oakley. Yeah, I say 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:33.520 bully because according to the new standard with participation trophy type, 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.680 the millennials, Um, you know, sometimes when you don't say 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:42.760 the nice things to the right ears, they don't receive it. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.000 Well right, Well, I'm the station I mean is it is? 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.160 It means that these days you don't see uh the 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.240 old schools, uh, the working the hall. They had to 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.960 put in the mag a song and you got everything 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.280 in front of you, the make a song and they 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.720 give me a pass. It's no hard work nor moment. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.640 So it's just I know it's a different style, right 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.400 listen that. But you know, if you look back into 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.160 how it started back in the early seventies up to 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.239 probably two thousand, you know how they had to the manifold, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:25.400 the hooks, the rhyme, the style and create creativity to 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:30.040 make a song. It's not their normal. Well let's let's 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.520 jump right into it, um man. I I got some 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.119 intail early this morning. Um so that made me kind 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.359 of switch up a little bit of my icebreaker questions 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:46.160 about you. When's the last time someone bawled money from 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:51.680 from you? I mean that's every every um every other month. Yeah, 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.000 So did they say they're gonna pay it back? Are 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.760 you looking for them to pay it back? There's different 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.400 types of letting money these days. Some people you didn't 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.600 until you don't. You know, you can just chalk it up. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.760 Some people, you know incredibilities. Some people don't, uh, just 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.639 you know, you don't worry about serame things. But when 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.760 someone got the money and don't pay you, it's a 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.079 different story. Sometimes some people trying to use the money 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.880 to get funding, better themself or get something started. I 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.880 understand that you gotta know that expectation going into it. Yea. 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.600 So if you were going to sail around the world, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:34.320 what's the name of your boat? All right? This last one? 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.760 Are you a morning person or a night person? Oh? Man, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:46.240 I'm twenty four hours m m okay life all right. Oh, 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.640 it's a privilege and honor to talk to you. One. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.200 I'm old school. I was. I'm a old school type 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.720 of guy. Show a guy like you being able to 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.320 talk to you. Uh, it's pretty cool. It's really pretty 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:02.400 cool for me. He's a conversation. Then you old school? Yeah, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.800 I'm old school. Like we don't like if we're going 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.400 to Alabama, we don't seven to five, seven to one. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.280 We should put on a cruising from those about SI 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.840 five seven and it's right al out. I like it. 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.000 But if it's two brothers in Alabama, we're gonna get 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:24.920 pulled over. I'll tell you, I'll tell you story about Alabama. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.400 I'll trought about eight nine years old. My brother was 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.520 We were coming back Frown and then went to a 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.240 service down there and it's like three cars and it 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.480 wasn't like the cops got that got us from a plane. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.960 The tractors the speed from a plane and shut it down. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.160 They do that there a lot of Tennessee and that's 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.520 how we got pulled over. But you know, they get 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.040 all the tricks in the book. I mean they get 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:47.680 to hide to get you this, and then you got 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.040 likes to get the police. So I don't know, it's 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.280 it's it's always something dirty going on, but it's like 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.839 we live in we gotta get through it and hopefully 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.400 that don't happen to one of us in a bad way. Hey, 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.960 So I love this one. I like to ask people, 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.360 especially old school guy like you, so you'll know, man, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.520 where are you from in the place you call your hometown? 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.240 Born and raised in Cleveland? Oh wow, that's why I called. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.920 You know, they called the land Lebron changed the name 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.520 and I'm sitting up part of that when I'm from Cleveland. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.720 But you know, I'm a family visioned from the South York, Alabama. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.960 So I've been back and forth all my life. And 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.200 U went to school in Virginia, Union Rich in Virginia. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.120 So I've been in the South a live in the 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.920 North a lot. So like I said, I'm I'm going 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.440 out of North and South. How do you balance being 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.000 from originally your roots and your family being from the South, 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.680 living on you know, being raised in Ohio. However, you 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.960 know you are known for being the standard of a 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:02.000 New York Nick and being in New York wears fast pace. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.400 Southern hospitality does not exist. You. You know, I've been 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.080 in New York and several times with work, and I 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.560 live in North Carolina now, and so I've I've adapted 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.280 the Southern hospitality. And you know, you opened the door 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.400 not just for a woman, but also for the elderly, right, 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.200 and I've opened the door for the elderly. And they 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.960 clutch they clutched their purse a little bit like you know, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.120 what what is he up to? How did you? How 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:33.280 did you balance your roots Ohio, Alabama and New York? 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.280 Balancing that? Well? I guess um, we can we can 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.080 see at the triangle that some of the Knicks players 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.679 could never learn. But from cleaning around New York basically 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:50.080 all different Cleveland's you know more, Alabama South and New 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.720 York is America. Whatever you wanted to be. Uh. In 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.200 New York is you know, it's a fast place. Cleveland 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.320 is in the middle of Alabama, a little slow, so 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.160 small medium in large place. So basically all of them 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.640 helped me in a way of my life was going. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.760 My grandfather and aunts and uncles in the South, and 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.200 Cleveland will still have something doing. In New York the 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.120 light is bright. But I'm ready for the challenge. So 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.560 it helped me. I was ready for the moment anyway. 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.160 It was when you when you built a certain way, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.880 and you you take your followers the steps to get 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.000 and you listen to everyone coming up, and the installed 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.000 all this into your mind, your brain, and you still 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:31.680 stay in your place. Then where you go, you stay 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.320 in your place. And then we try to, you know, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.000 shine and just sit back and relax and let it happen. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.800 And that's what I did. Uh when New York, I 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:40.440 never tried to be all I gotta do all this, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.360 do all that, do what you can do. If you 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.280 can't do it, you can't do it. So you talked 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.960 about building. So what kind of kid was Charles Opley? 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.120 I was a good kid. Uh, he said. My thing 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.760 was I was told at early age when some mind 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.680 said your name, don't don't say what start coming the 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.240 time they you know, got something else to said you 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.240 right there. And I know a lot of kids the 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.000 day you gotta say they name three and full time, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.160 they wouldn't have work when I was going up. So 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.000 basically I was more of like I always following order, 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.800 detail and like I said, looking around, see what's going around, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.160 trying to always keep myself in the right place, doing 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.200 the right thing. Uh, you know, I was a worker, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.240 so and showing later my career it's all about work. 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.760 When your mama used your full name, you better get 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.520 over there. Mentioned around. Yeah, they say, you know, they 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.960 called me junior, so junior. So when I know they 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.319 said junior, they were They wasn't a lot of juniors around. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.400 So I just started walking towards the boys. Hey, uh, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.640 your mama, When you juior and you don't get over 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.199 there quick enough, it ain't gonna be I'm talking to 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:53.280 it ain't gonna be no more junior. I mean, you know, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.199 I just see how it was flows a lot. It 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:56.600 was a lot of kids in the family, a lot 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.000 of arts and uncles. So you know it was like 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.199 we detail, you know, we had choices, we had stuff 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.319 to do, so we knew what you had to do. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.200 And it was a kid. We had to walk up 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.079 the road and help them to get the water bringing 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:09.760 back to the you know, when we had our house 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.839 and I was going up, you know, so everybody took 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:16.360 a day doing their things. You've mentioned several times about 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:23.079 your your grandfather, and my grandfather was very impactful and 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.360 left for imprint on me. Um, I used the term grandfather, 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.760 but you know, for me, it's no disrespect grandpa. You know, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.520 what what was your what was your you? You keep 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.720 saying your grandfather? Man? What was your grandpa's name? Because 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.800 I'm reading a lot of information and I hear they 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.520 called they called Jewish mass He was one, he was 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:49.000 eight his family, but he had eight kids. Um, you know, 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.720 I had five honths, three uncles, and um, you know 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.200 he uh used all of them just one. The first 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.360 house he had two rooms. About time I got holding up, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.679 and next I know, it's like four or five. He 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.679 added on rooms like every other year until he had 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.920 like a six severial house. Um, you know, he's a 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.040 big four kids in the bed this and that. I mean, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:17.640 we don't know. Is your grandpa add on those rooms 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.440 himself with him with some hands. He did it at 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.480 a leadiate when he had time. Um, you know, he 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.600 was working in the field. You know, he's going back 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.160 and forth. He had to walk in first. He's you know, 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.160 saving his money to do that. So he was walking 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.320 back and forth to work at the early age. And 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.720 he said his money, you know, he just to add 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.960 a little time until he got it done. He was 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.040 good with his hand, he was he was He was 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.839 a hard worker. So he had you know, some of 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.240 his kids growing up. They helped him after school. We 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.240 went to the field or help him around the house 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.120 when he you know, when he came home from work. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:57.560 And you know, he was always doing something not to 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:05.080 be weak. What what does that mean for you particularly? Um, 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.280 just you know when he came up and then back 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.120 in this, I mean he's going nineteen o six nine, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:16.800 nineteen twelve, nineteen twelve, I mean back and then it 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.240 was like, hey, it was like you know what we 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.520 see from a lot of these old movies that you know, 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.559 opportunity wasn't there and you had to give a lot 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.560 just to get oil and when the little he did, 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.480 he made the best of it. And and he told me, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.160 you know, as he got older, people so respecting him 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.120 because he wouldn't. He wasn't a weak link. He doing that, 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:41.880 you know, even though he had a lot, but he 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.280 was about a lot. He's gonna stand for his family 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.880 and his rights as long as he could. And most 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.400 people back then died the same way he was his thoughts. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.520 He never got to the point of, you know, he died, 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.120 but he told me about some people in the same situation. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.520 You know, he got a lynch down. I hear you 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.160 know you're talking about don't be weak man. You hear 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.400 about basketball players all the time. You know, you hear 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.839 about Lebron talking about how you know he could have 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.079 played football. You hear all these these guys talking about football. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.080 But I read when you you said playing football made 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:23.640 you tough. I love that because a lot of basketball players, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.720 just athletes in general, we all believe we can do 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.559 every sport right with with great cross crossing over. We're 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.640 crossing over. Let's be honest. I watched enough basketball. I'm 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.920 not a basketball g you know, Gerard are are are 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.120 our co host man. Yet that he loves basketball. I 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.880 get a lot of information from him, right, I'm just 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.599 an average fan that watches. I don't I don't commentate. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.600 I don't have my two cents. Used to be a 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.400 co worker. He was, he's been a year. So I 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.080 just watch. That's all I do. I don't try to 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.080 play coach or you know, some of these folks on 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.840 the couch. But being a football player, former football player, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.360 and I watched some of these basketball players. How they 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.400 hit the hole, and how they when they get filed, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.400 how they flop. Some of these guys ain't built to 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.840 play football. I don't care how big they are. Going 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.560 across the middle as a tight end. It wasn't gonna work. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.000 Wasn't gonna work. Mm hmm. That wasn't gonna work. Back 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.480 in the eighties and nine. It's some have been playing basketball. 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.280 You need talking about football, right, yeah? But football, I 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.280 mean I was. I was that dude. I was that 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.520 guy in football. I made it. I made a difference 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.800 when I played, you know, power football to my high 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.800 school with nine and one, So what possession work? I 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.320 was a set down. I wasn't set down defense end. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.280 That was a defense on the right side. So you say, so, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.320 you had the quick hands. You had quick hands. I 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:55.640 had the whole package. I like to play defense because 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.160 I like to head so you can hit. I played office. 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.040 You can hit on office to now that's this is 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:07.000 a great. Then you can run down turning yard, downfield, 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.200 do this, do that. But it's just different offense. You know, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.960 you got the state the state football. You can move around. 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.480 But it was fun though. I mean, I just like 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.800 practice because on the brain and day they make you 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.200 practice mud when rain. So we a lot of guys like, 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.680 please don't in the rain. But they're just toughen you up. 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.320 We did a lot of things are toughen you up. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.480 So my college in high school coach was real. We 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.800 turned down maybe it's about six pros in about ten years, 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.280 you know, going to my high school. We turned out 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.080 six guys went to college and went to pro. Which 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:44.240 which guys though, uh. Tim McGee went to Tennessee with 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.640 with uh since that being o. Anthony Handcock with the 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.040 Kansas City John Hire went through our state first. He 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.400 was up for the high school trophy. The one of 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.720 the best tackles we got, uh done Carroll with the 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:02.840 Florida we got one of the guys. It was, but 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.440 he made it as a running back. So there's some 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.680 talents in the hood. But there was a lot of 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.760 talent back then. When I was like coming up, it 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.520 was like, you know, everybody was like good side. Now 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.160 you can back to high school, everybody might be six 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.000 one hundred, seventy pound five and eleven hundred, you know, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.600 a small a linemans and stuff. Not not like I 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.360 was in high school. So maybe have like two thirty 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.480 They probably went down and wait, maybe my thirty pounds. 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:32.720 That's a big difference when and play a big teams difference. Yeah, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.720 what led you to attend Virginia Union University? I've growing 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:39.440 up just wanted to get out of Cleveland. They want 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.120 to be part of it. Goes uh, it was. It 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.200 was a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff was happening. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:45.680 Like a lot of my friends are growing up. Was 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.320 they was heading to the jail house. So they're doting drugs, 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:53.240 and you know, I escaped it, you know, rarely escaped it. Um. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.240 So when I went to Union, I wanted to go somewhere. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.160 I couldn't just come back two hours away. I want 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.360 to go somewhere like you know eight and I was 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.920 away and I'm glad I did because I only came 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.760 back one time in four years, so I wasn't missing Cleveland. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.640 So I was trying to get somebody of Well in 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:13.680 Virginia Union, you didn't have any other offers. I had 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.240 a lot of offers. I said, I wanted to get 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.840 away for like, I mean, that was I guess my 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:19.760 college Kobe when he came to visit me, he drove 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.840 it was a white guy. He drove away from Virginia 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.240 to pick up a truck. And if the interview went 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.160 away because he's a sturdy teller and you know, my 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.920 mom in the union sitting there and just he was 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.320 just presentation. I went to visit. I mean, it wasn't 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.320 a big school, like fifteen on the students though. Everything 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.480 was just like okay, I could do this, I can 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.320 do that. Classes take five minutes to get to him, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.040 and you know, just it was just something I didn't 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:46.600 want to go out to be Some people have to 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.520 take a bus to school, do this, you know, in college, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.200 do all this and all that. So everything was just 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.720 right there. I didn't want to have, you know, a 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.160 hiccup and like you know and blame somebody that you know, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.600 I took her something as to know what, it's easy. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.640 I can get to this building, that building, like sure, 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.400 I got time. And then I didn't want to play 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.720 football because I've seen the football players getting like poth 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.000 thirty five o'clock in the morning going to practice. And 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.240 then as in high school, we did see it after 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.680 practice at me after school they do they're doing two 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.760 days and getting up at five o'clock in the morning. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.200 I didn't mind that, but five o'clock in the morning 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:26.240 sending five degrees, yeah, seven. I want to pay dividends. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.560 I was just at the double Tournament up in Baltimore, 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.159 and of course see all your your accolades been in 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:32.639 the Hall of Fame to see hot double A. So 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.200 it definitely paid off dividends that decision. I was there. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.440 I was Jamie Wallert went in the Hall of Fame 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.280 this year, so me Terry being you know, a j 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.160 was you know in the Union. You know he went 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.159 a few years ago. But quite a few guys and uh, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.359 you know, not just basketball, we got football, another major 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.560 fel you know, the mayor and the mayor Richmond was 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.800 um Virginia Union. I think he got you know, so 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.320 a lot of people in the Hall of Fame, not 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:07.240 just athletes, different positions, walk of life. Would you say 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:13.200 today's process to get drafted is it is a little 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.159 bit easier to indoor compared to what you had to 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.720 go through. Um, it might be easier for us the 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.120 major school, but not for the HBC's. It's still it's 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.119 still it's still a tough role because, like I said, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.399 we're gonna get a lot of covers. It's not a 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.880 lot of you know, talent like it used to be 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.119 in the in the big school. So you see the 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.840 comparative in the big schools and they play a small school, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.359 they're not blowing them up by thirty or forty points. 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.240 To mow, it's a good game maybe too, like five 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.000 minutes going the game closed, going to halftime down five 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.879 or six points. But the best athletes, they say, always 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.480 gonna pull away. Then the best team you know, supposed 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.359 to win. And then in the sports and Charles was 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.280 a lottery picked too, So that's that's even more like 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.879 remarkable to come from a smaller school hbc U and 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.240 then be man, listen like that's what I'm saying. That's 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.560 what I'm saying. It's like looking at your body of 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.000 work and looking at the body of work of other 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.919 guys that all the guys that come out of Kentucky, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.760 come out of Duke here in Charlotte, come out of U. 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.840 N C. Chapel Hill. It's just they, you know, they 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.119 come and go. Guys get drafted. There's a lot of 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.360 re picking before they're and therefore before their Ricky contract 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:36.919 even expires. You already have you already have a synopsis 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.680 synopsis of is this guy gonna make it? Yeah, you're 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.080 a guy in the ninth overall picking. I'm just looking 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.800 at it just seems it just does it Today's world, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.800 it does not compute. And so I'm trying to figure out, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.000 other than you being Charles Oakley, other than you being 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.639 who you are, how does the I'm not saying the 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.080 next Charlee Okeley, but how do is a kid that's 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.240 out of out of wants to get out of his 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.320 town and he's enamored with the college scout that or 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.959 a coach that is talking to him, but it's not 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:18.560 one of those big one of those power five schools. Well, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.840 I think now, since a lot of things and change 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.320 in the world since um George Floyd stuff from all 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:33.200 these incidents, opportunities the doors like Dean Standers and George 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.920 or you get all these guys going back to these 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:41.280 histories Black College to open up opportunities for different athletes, 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.840 and that's the thing. But Dion did that and then 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:51.760 George you got uh and you three other guys too. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.960 I mean, so when you get big names, people follow names. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.680 It's still never let know what that one thing will 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.160 never go away. My name goes so when people want 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.440 to go so for d ND to do that and 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:08.000 to George who uh he uh. When Hugh Jackson go 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.639 back to a level to bring some pride back to 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.439 these university and I think that that's a big start 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.680 right there. But but when I was a Union, big 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:23.160 house game, you had a lot of respect in the NBA. UM. 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:24.720 You know, a lot of the talent was a lot 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.919 different though. You know, everybody like good size and Ralph talent, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.720 David Poe from the North of State talent got drafted 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.959 to the Lakers second round. Then after I got drafted, 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:40.000 Jamie got drafted to Jersey. Uh So, opportunity was there 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.399 because they're seeing that going to the p i T 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:48.160 Portsman Entertainment Invitation Tournament, guys was like, okay, the body's 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.399 they got, you know, they can play a lot. And 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.879 I remember my senior year, my Sawmore year, we tried 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.520 to play Georgetown. They would say, we all just you know, 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:58.920 we don't want to pay school like that because yeah, 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:00.920 y'all were too good. You know, you have a chance 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.480 to beating them. So you have a chance to beating 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.800 the big school. Back then, they didn't play it. But 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:07.760 as the time I went on, you see, and they 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.600 started playing more Division three's the Division two because a 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.000 lot of Division two had good playoffs. Division three was 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.400 another lower level, so they wouldn't play us. And there 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.240 after I left Virginia, come Well started playing union. They 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.800 played for every four year we split. So they said, 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.200 we can't play you off because they expect they will 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.760 expect to beat you. They don't want you to beat 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.120 them because if it used to be a warm up 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:35.800 for the tournament play or whatever. But you know, it's 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.560 just tough now that I went to the seat and 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.760 they went to the game that you know, the athletes 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:45.080 just like just like I don't know, it's it's just 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.840 like not just small school having problem with athletes. It's 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.399 just major schools are too because You're seeing these guys 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.159 come out of the NBA the day they're getting drafted 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.320 because the numbers who they played with a you, they 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:58.960 sliding in. But now they get drafted to go to the 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.320 the NBA is a little tough. They're not living up 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:08.240 to the potential. I love Cut to It, and I 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:12.200 love it even more when you download us and subscribe, 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.400 and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie, 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.480 where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram? 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:23.639 What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook? Cut to 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.679 It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.160 can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:33.480 where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.600 us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.040 answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered. 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:43.679 That's what I'm here for, a brother cut to a 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:47.640 Podcast dot Com. Well, I mean you started, so let's 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:49.760 jump into it. Then we're talking about ball. I mean, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.440 you go to No. Ninth overall pick and you're drafted 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.480 by your home team. But yeah, but yeah, by the 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.720 time you feel a celebrating, you're right, should trade it 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:03.960 to the Chicago Bulls. Walk us through that process. How 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:09.960 did they work? Well? Number one, that they had the draft, 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.160 they were sounds gonna go fourth round, third round, second round. 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:15.680 So I didn't even go to New York to the draft. 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:17.639 I went to my coach's house and we set up 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.240 a camera and they had a phone line so when 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:22.360 they call, you know, when they drafted me, you can call. 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.520 That was a rotary phone. Was at a rotary phone? 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.680 Was that a page or what kind of I didn't 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:33.600 have a phone myself. They had my coaches house home number. 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:38.639 Coach to the union home number. So so they called 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.760 him and uh, they told us, well, it's gonna be 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.520 a it's gonna be a it's gonna be a draft 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.840 in the trade. He's gonna trade me. The Bulls wanted me, 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.480 but they thought there was a ten pick. The bull 0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:51.960 had the leven pick. For the bull thought the number 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.760 ten pick was gonna take me. So they just traded 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.320 nine for leven. So Keith Lee. They took Keith Lee 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:02.400 at eleven and then they swapped Keith Flee. So Keith 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:04.760 Flee with Alabama. He was like, you know, one of 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:07.119 the big, big time guys then, but he felt his 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:10.480 stock fails for some reason. But so we made the trains, 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:13.040 and uh, I did the interview. You know, I have 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:14.600 to do the interview a week later. You go up 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:17.159 there to introduce you to the city, and that, this 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.040 and that, and I got there. I told him, I 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:21.960 don't you know, I'm ready to stay. They said we 0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:23.480 can go back and come back in two weeks. I said, 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:25.200 I'm ready to stay. I'm I'm ready to get into 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.280 it because I know I'm on the car and uh, 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.960 my work is gonna start when I get there. I said, 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.160 I'm wading the state and do anything. Actually, I can't 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.000 to be ready for training camp. And so we just 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:42.240 went from there and then August September, I met Mike 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:45.000 was playing pick up. I was playing pick up with him. 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.960 Then training camp started in in September. First we go 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:52.040 out tower just went from there. After the dust is 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.560 settled and you just mentioned it was a young upper 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:56.760 coming team with Michael Jordan. What was your outlook on 0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:00.560 the Bulls after you just got drafted, Wow, it was 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:03.080 it was. My little was like, hey, you got three 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.199 power for when you draft and not so we was 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:07.360 we were like grocer store. We were stocked the one 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:11.880 product power forwards. I had to work my way down 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:15.040 the ladder and you know how to training camp started 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:17.719 this and that. Everybody like you know, they've been friendly, 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:22.000 like sometimes in the rookies, they you know, sit in 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:24.000 and show wait and see how you're gonna react this 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:25.800 and that. But I went in there like, hey, they't 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:29.720 know was stopping now. So I just went it full speed. 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:31.800 And everything I was doing on the court, off the 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:35.720 court early, staying late, working on my craft and about 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:39.520 to All Star Break that year, they were I got 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:41.640 a chance to start and then having a look back 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:44.240 since you know, my whole career, I went from there. 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:49.639 When did oak Charles Oakley become what we have seen 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.840 from you with the New York Knicks? Like when when 0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:57.399 did I'm not saying that it wasn't there, but you 0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:01.359 know something, obviously every after he has that has that 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:03.840 moment where they decide what kind of player they're going 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:09.080 to be psychologically and also physically. Well, I knew my 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:12.119 skill level when I got there, you know, I know, 0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:15.400 Michael Jordan was there, Queen Dayala Atlanta Ward. My thing 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:18.600 was I average twenty four and seventeen months a year. 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.320 I said, if I can get half of everything, I'm good. 0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:24.560 You know what I'm saying, good pro like, have you 0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:27.560 know half you know half a twenty four and you 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:30.440 know rebounds. I know I can rebound, so I know 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:33.360 that going to Chicago Bull there we're gonna be no shots. 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:41.080 I knew you scratch that off this right, Yeah, to 0:27:41.200 --> 0:27:43.080 them that I can play no matter, Well, Matt, I 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.600 can play basketball. Show them that how I Q understood? 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.080 You know, you know the plays and no no time 0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.760 of possession, of the clock, knowing who who, you know 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:53.480 on the strength of weakness on the team. You know, 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.600 just all the detail. That was real detail. And I 0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:00.000 think some guys get cut because they don't know details. 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:01.600 You can be a planted you know this and that 0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.120 for newing details. Know what you're playing with it all time. 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:05.840 You know where the ball should be going a certain 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.280 times on shot clock, all the little small stuff. What 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.120 I'm asking this dumb question and I'm okay with it, 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:19.280 but what is basketball intelligence? Break that down for me 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:23.640 just because I don't know this well. First of all, 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.840 is I mean when you get know, five possessions, five 0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:29.879 positions on the court one to five even though you 0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:31.879 ain't playing it, but you still got no one know 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:36.359 what the comeback. It's always a counter every play. What 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.760 can do is that i Q, because you know sometimes 0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:41.800 you might get come down the court and you got 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.000 to say you have five, but you're in a two position. 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:47.200 You gotta know what the to do. And all that's 0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:49.440 knowing the smart and you know, like I said, knowing 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:51.720 what guys will come into the of the bench where 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:54.360 they can do good and just know, like I said, 0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:57.200 with the team concept, what you're looking for gaming and 0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:01.920 game out the type of temple. Oh, you won't who 0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:05.480 you're playing against. You still gotta play with intelligence. Do 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.320 you think it's more needed now or back then when 0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:11.920 you played? You have no need? You said, you don't 0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:16.960 know why? Why? Why not? Well, if he wants the game, 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.120 you can tell i Q. You can see air ball. 0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:22.720 They saying you look at the game, just look at 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:24.320 the man who you're playing. You can just see it. 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:28.160 The same effect. You're gonna see four or five turnover 0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.040 in the first three of three minutes of the game, 0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.120 three or four a air balls, five or six miss 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:35.040 free throw. All this in the first five or six 0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:37.160 minutes of the game. And now back in the days, 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:39.800 most tournalmen you can have is twelve in the game. 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:41.480 You get six in the first six minute of game. 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:46.200 I mean, you're gonna wait two over the morgue in 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.440 the game. Free throws that don't count. I mean, back 0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:52.160 in the days, every possession came down to just about 0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:54.760 two or three possession. So if you missed sixtem free 0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:57.520 throws by you know, in one quarter, they're gonna kill 0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.360 you for winning the game. So just it's just a 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:02.880 lot of it's it's just I heard a commentator said 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:05.959 one game like, well, since he handled the ball, somebody 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.840 he can, it's okay for six I'm trying over. I mean, 0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.840 imagine handling the ball on the i Q. You know, 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:14.920 two or three turnovers at the most, not six, seven, eight. 0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:17.840 But that's the new ball game. Now. You can miss 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:21.320 eight throws and a half and lose by three points. 0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:23.840 And one of while he lost, I mean it was 0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:27.800 you lose about two points. That's how you lost. But 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:30.320 they don't they don't put it in the analytical mocals. 0:30:30.360 --> 0:30:33.000 They want to swoo threes. They wanted to change the 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:36.640 dynamic game to analytic game. And well they only do 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.960 atlantic for three quarters, not fourth quarter on the why 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:42.840 because the fourth quarter of the bad quarter. The book 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:47.960 is called the Last Enforcer. What what was the premise 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:50.640 when you started going down this path to write in 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:53.200 the book? What what did you want the purpose of 0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:56.760 the book to be. Well, you know, over my career, 0:30:57.400 --> 0:31:00.400 I know everybody is you know, he played about Ford, 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.040 he through this that. I just wanted to know how 0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:06.840 I was brought up through the family, Um what I 0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.880 went through a versus through my journey to the NBA 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.880 atop you know, being on the back page or the 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:16.640 New York Time to Post whatever magazine for you know, 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.200 the ten years other day in New York. I just 0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:22.360 wanted people to see that it was. It wasn't either 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:26.160 ride you know, um, you know, like first like that, 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.600 like what went to college? My first I had to 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:31.120 cast the Greyhound. You know, just different stuff. And in 0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:34.160 this book just like you know, it's really gonna incite 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.560 to you, like you know, the stirs and the running 0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.400 with people and you know, I still stay on the 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:43.360 course or you know, being this guy who's gonna handling 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:47.000 business no matter what got in my weight. So you're 0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:50.560 talking about you know, some of that. It was something 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:53.920 I'm pulling out and not to talk about him, but 0:31:54.560 --> 0:32:00.560 it really triggered me because some people and they read it, 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.800 they go wow, really, But it's also one of those 0:32:04.840 --> 0:32:07.920 things where I believe that the average fan doesn't really 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.240 understand it. Right when you're talking about Patrick Hewing, how 0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:16.720 lazy he was, and I've played with players and I'm 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:19.480 not naming, but I played with players and also fans 0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:28.800 A go I name Patrick. Yeah, I know it's okay. Listen, 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:32.640 his book says outrageous stories. He wants you to know that. 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:37.720 I'm gonna say it, but I'm hey, I'm not I'm 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:40.800 almost getting to your to your level of age. I'm 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:43.880 I'm still I'm tiptoeing in the forty three this year, 0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:47.400 so I got a little ways to go, right, Um. 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:49.840 But I one of the things that sat with me, 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:55.600 it's people. Some people are like, he's a Hall of Famer, 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:59.000 how is he? How is he lazy? That's the gift 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:06.400 of basket of anybody where his gifts we're good enough 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.240 that he didn't have to work hard. But there are 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:11.840 players who have who don't have the gifts. I believe 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:14.280 I didn't have the gift. I had to work extremely hard, 0:33:15.520 --> 0:33:17.880 harder than the other person who didn't have it. Obviously 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.640 because of my lack of height, all of that stuff, 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:24.800 and we're in the same kindgory too. Yeah, but people, 0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:28.680 people are gasping, I'm still working, you know something. But 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:33.640 see that that is what you're just saying. Um. You know, 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.040 like when they like back in the eight is and 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:40.160 none is. See it was a selfish lead. So I'm 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:42.760 talking in a way that I've seen it how selfish 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:46.320 guys was and he was taking the wrong way. He 0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:49.640 wasn't just my teammate. It was all the stupid stars 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.200 of selfish in the eight is and None. Why do 0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:57.160 you have another Why do you think that because he 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:00.640 was just how to leave was trans you know, transparens 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:04.360 back then. Because my thing is every team has systems 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:07.440 and the first two guys the ball had to go 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:09.960 through between it when like coming down shooting quick three 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:14.760 those shots. Everything was controlled even off the court, meets 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.880 and teams, you know, like I said, we have a 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:21.239 team appearance and stuff, all that stuff. Everything was so controlling. 0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:26.359 And you know, but your dream team you all Star. 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:29.560 I mean, like I remember Jim Jackson had a twenty 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:32.360 nine points and the leading leading score. They make the 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:35.560 All Star team because his name, he wasn't one of 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.480 the guys they went by they had they they had 0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:41.680 their few guys on every Eastern West. They're gonna make 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:44.440 it no matter what they stat was. They started changing 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:46.600 a little more at the two you know, late nineties, 0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:50.800 two thousand's, you know, but it was so controlling and 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:55.640 then each organsta each was controlling and you know, like 0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:58.200 now you go to a gift shop, you might have 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.960 everybody's jergy in there. Back when we play and New York, 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:04.360 we want to have Patrick m for now in my 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:07.640 ten years, maybe my last year there or whatever. Once 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:09.680 we went to the finals, might I had minds and 0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:13.359 then John maybe, but they didn't do the team thing. 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:16.400 Weren't the unity thing was just one guy. You know, 0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:18.279 if you went on the All Star team, your jersey 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:22.759 wasn't gonna be nowhere around. But it was like that. 0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:25.440 It was it was I'm telling you know. They that 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:27.959 was like Lebron. All of them guys speak up about 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:31.640 different topic, different you know eight and that that guy. 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:34.680 Everybody the might was had tape folders. They speak about 0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:36.920 no issues, that what's going on in the industry. I 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:40.200 think they were spoke up more back then. A lot 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:42.560 of this way basketball and now I wouldn't be the 0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:45.480 same because it be a little more structured. You know, 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:49.160 I think it's we're going now is you know, like 0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:51.399 step kerr had fit the points in the All Star Game, 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.800 his sixteen threes. These kids can't make these threes, but 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:58.560 they're trying them. Then, team you got suiting the Pacis 0:35:58.600 --> 0:35:59.879 from the free throw line, but they want to shoot 0:35:59.880 --> 0:36:06.040 through you. You got three points right there, they free 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:08.239 right there, but you rather pull up for the three 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:10.359 and like he said, you know you people don't run 0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:13.120 an offense no more. It's it's one on one. It's 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:17.920 it's I hate watching hurting teams that think they like 0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:21.319 something like Okay, look at Memphis, what they're doing. Look 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:26.680 at Chicago, Look at they're doing. Look what h Chicago, Cleveland, 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:30.720 they're going back to the you know, powerful and center 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:33.799 and their line up. They're trying to just shoot through. 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:35.400 They trying to work the ball around to the you know, 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:39.640 a little good shot. You know you're following that gold State, Yeah, 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:41.839 Golden State, but they want a championship. They weren't taking three, 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:45.239 they were taking the best available shot. It's it's they 0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:47.560 want a lot of showmanship and games now they want 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.279 a lot of high scooling game they won't dunks, they 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:53.680 won't Oh um, if you want to listen to these 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.279 I was watching the game. Was it last night or something? 0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:00.480 I was trying to watch the game, but I think 0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:03.800 of the Lagos game. What's up? It's just like I was, 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:06.480 most of you just watched highlights because it's hard to 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:11.480 watch the whole game. H I don't know, y'all what 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:14.240 y'all looking to gal i' looking for a good dcl 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:18.279 either game like it's not it's hard to watch. Yeah, 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.359 says that says a lot. It says a lot from 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:25.600 Charles perspective playing in the in the nineties, playing when 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:31.000 you played a spectacular era in basketball NBA to where 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:33.000 today he's like, I don't even know if what do 0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:37.719 you know? What I love about back then basketball which 0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:41.120 is different from today today. Everybody wants to be a hero. 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:48.680 I love watching the Knicks, the Pacers, right, the Bulls, 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:54.279 each team they were either the villain or think about 0:37:54.880 --> 0:37:58.359 as they like it was it was a sure man 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:02.600 Lex Luger. But when you watch ball to day, everybody 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:05.239 wants to be superman. You couldn't wait for Reggie to 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:07.960 go into Madison Square Garden because you know that that's 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:11.239 a real rivalry. But you know one thing, I mean, 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:13.440 I might say about this day and age, and I 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:17.479 age you got more freedom. Man. Back then it wasn't 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:21.320 no freedom too, you know, just they got more freedom. 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:23.040 I mean, you can come down and shoot the three 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:25.359 and don't even care if he missed two or three 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:29.080 in a row. You shoot another one happened in nineties. 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:31.400 If you if you didn't that in the nineties, what 0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:35.120 would happened? You know, they're gonna snatch you out. You 0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:38.960 got Joel and B three or four games. You got 0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:43.120 Joel and B running point. It's just it's just that's embarrassing. 0:38:46.760 --> 0:38:48.920 He told me. He told me that. I said, up 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:51.239 two years I think it was two years ago. He 0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:54.000 shouldn't be the next World Chamber. Just average fifty with 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:56.280 just all lay up and filing guys out came about 0:38:56.360 --> 0:39:05.880 stopp him. Nobody, nobody cut Let's get down to do. Hey, Gerard, 0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:07.960 why did you get that T shirt? You mean this thing? 0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:10.640 Oh yes, I got it from cut to a podcast 0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:13.920 dot com where we have exclusive merchandise shout out to 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:15.600 our guys at seven or four shot. But yeah, you 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:18.120 can go on, buy you a T shirt, Subscribe to 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:21.839 us wherever you listen to podcasts. What makes a team 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:32.960 special and special? Um? Special players? Memphis, Uh, Chicago special 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:38.239 when Zack Zack, Marazine and the Roles are playing. I 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:41.839 mean they got special two players, a Phally especial. Now 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.200 you know, it's just on the team to make it special, 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:49.880 not go out before. I don't think Phoenix special. They 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.759 just a team that play well together. Especially you guy 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:56.600 have it that it? I mean Booka is that it? 0:39:56.800 --> 0:40:01.600 But he don't get his credit for some reason. Huh, 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:04.759 I said, why is that? I don't know. I mean 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:06.600 a lot of guys went through that round. Like I said, 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:11.560 Jim Jackson, I mean, can can score all. I don't know, Books. 0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:14.600 I mean, it's just something about it. I mean they're 0:40:14.600 --> 0:40:17.799 gonna you gotta just you know, like I said, All Star, 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:20.759 there's no way Wicked Sidney been starting All Star. I 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:23.640 don't get that one. But the fans voted for him. 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:28.879 But I think that Bogle definitely him mc clayton best 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:32.000 two best two guards on the West. When Clayton right now, 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:35.480 he definitely hand down the best to guard right in 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:39.320 the league right now. So Aga in your book, The 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.400 Last Enforcer, Outrageous Stories from the life and Times of 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:45.759 one of the NBA's fierce competitors, with the forward by 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:49.719 Michael Jordan's and in collaboration with award winning sports writer 0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:53.080 Frank I Sola, Why did you why did you want 0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:55.880 both MJ and Frank to to have that forward in 0:40:55.920 --> 0:41:00.960 your book? Um? For Frank, he was a bet writer 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:03.800 in New York. I end the people, maybe six different guys, 0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.319 and uh, I just felt comfortable with him. He knew 0:41:06.320 --> 0:41:09.160 about me, he knew uh you know, and being in 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.080 New York what I've been through, and we had a 0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:15.560 good you know, we had a good little core and 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:18.839 him over the years, you know. And for the MJ 0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:21.320 doing it for its just so when I would have, 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:23.800 you know, someone been in my corner and someone was 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:25.960 in my back and someone I knew I could kindo. 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:28.239 So when I called him to do the four when 0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:30.440 we're like, okay, how many days before you need it? 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:32.719 And then asked me nothing. He didn't even have a 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:35.399 book before. He just got a book, probably the same 0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:37.400 time y'all got the book. How did y'all hit it 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.960 off so well? You? M J? Probably in the book 0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:41.799 I talked a little about it, but probably just seeing 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.240 how I was as a as a you know team 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:49.000 I got coming in from a small school UM Virginia Union, 0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:54.479 and seeing that my consistency for being on early come 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:59.080 you know, knowing knowing the plays, working afterwards, just being 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:02.160 a hummer, you know, didn't like they call a filers 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:05.160 call something practice and you know, like this said now 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.480 and just kept playing, just kept the same attitude and 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.800 just just being a grown man in a different in 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:13.920 a different appo field. Like I said, all of them 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:16.279 guys went the Division one school. I went to Division two. 0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:19.920 They didn't. They didn't fear me because and like my 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:22.839 journey from coming out my senior year was I played 0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:24.799 against a lot of Division one guys in the All 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:27.040 Star Games, and I helped my own so one got 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.320 to the pro. I know, it's different. I had the 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:32.080 man power, so I just kept it going. You know, 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:35.759 just knew how to work the work. It's all about work, 0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:39.080 especially you know, uh back then, you gotta know how 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:41.600 to work. Could plain, We're gonna get it. I just said, 0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:43.759 to show him that he was tougher than tougher than 0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:47.920 the next guy. Going through going back of your career 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:51.120 and doing the book, did you have any moments where 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:54.880 you just started to start to have any regrets or thought, man, 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.160 maybe I should have did it this way versus that way. 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.560 That's that's real stuff. I mean, I didn't ain't twice. 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:02.960 It's a lot more I could have put in about 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:05.680 wait for the next one. It's it's and if you 0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:07.919 think this one, the next one really gonna be juicy. 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:09.719 We got so wait, wait a minute, we do we 0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:15.200 get the exclusive? Did we just get? I guess some Hey, 0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:17.400 this just to get you in the theater. Then I 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:23.440 started singing, day that's when you like that one. Well, 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:26.359 I started singing, I'm just being I've been nice. Really, 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:33.160 this book real nice because like I said, I can 0:43:33.239 --> 0:43:37.000 crank it up here. I could. I could be like 0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:38.719 a go go bad to d C. I can crank 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:45.080 it up. So it was it was smoller than me 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:48.480 because I remember everything. I had notes that that isn't that. 0:43:48.719 --> 0:43:52.239 But I had fun. You know. My thing is these 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:55.719 stores in this okay, last the stories in the book, 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.919 it's just like wow. So the stories just like every 0:43:58.960 --> 0:44:01.120 time I was on the story like I was, you know, 0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:03.720 it was people there, like the one in the garden 0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:06.200 when the all the guys on death Row all of 0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:09.239 them came and like push us in one room. Then 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:11.560 I've seen the guy in Dallas. But Dion saying nothing 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:13.400 that out of this and that it was. It just 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.800 came easy because it's so real. It was so the 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.120 story is so real. And the other good thing were 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.880 everyone in my story. It was someone condentified. You know, 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.520 some people like well and I just tried to set 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:27.239 something to get somebody to come to the you know, 0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.080 buy the book. Uh, you know said he had some 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.400 good story. Now all these are my real stories. So 0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:36.000 you really did toss uh Charles Barkley out there at 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.160 the club. I just smacked him. And you know that's 0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:41.800 what I'm saying. I'm saying, toss hibout the club. I 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:48.279 was trying to be nice. So you smacked him. He 0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:52.800 didn't like flinch back. He just took the smack. I 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:54.480 smacked Hi when they had a seating way for the 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:58.880 meeting store. That's a business man just got smacked and 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:02.399 he just took one of them so chucking. Hey, Chuck 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:04.920 is on TNT high behind the glass. That's all the 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:09.720 time he do it talking because Chelly talking that madcash. Okay, 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:15.920 we all know what that means. We don't know what 0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:18.600 that means what we did. But we didn't do it 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.480 with the piscil. We did it with what you put down. 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:24.600 We put sleep for sein. We came to this name 0:45:26.480 --> 0:45:30.800 because we can't stop with what say. No, that's that, 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.120 that's the anti hermit, which now I'm hitting on this. 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:43.799 You finally got it, didn't you know? That's the that's 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:46.239 the bully I'm talking about. That's the old school. That's 0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:48.520 the old school, and not bullying a negative way. I 0:45:48.640 --> 0:45:52.560 just mean bullying. I stick to what I say, and 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:57.239 what I say is what I mean. Yeah, man, that 0:46:00.120 --> 0:46:02.399 was enforced to what I say. That's what I'm talking 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:04.200 about me really, because you even talk about in the 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:06.160 in the book, you talk about you know, vets control 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:09.080 in the locker room, even from when Scottie Pippot first 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:10.600 got into the locker room, when you were with the 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:12.759 bulls like you you you with the vet control in 0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:15.600 the locker room. I mean, I would tell you it's 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:17.600 in the book. But the time when I was a 0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:20.640 rookie and you know you got I carre the bags 0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:22.440 two times just you know, say hey, I'm gonna do 0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:24.920 the right thing. And the time when I missed the 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.239 first bus I got on the second bus, they try 0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:29.360 to go at me a little bit, and then we 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:31.600 got to the rido that I had to rush in 0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:34.960 the change to get taped. And then they said, now rookie, 0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:36.719 you can't get taped. And I said, if I don't 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:39.239 get taped, and nobody getting taped. But that's what I 0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:40.880 got book, I said, I took all the tape, me 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:44.520 through and the guy, but yeah, I ain't getting tape nobody. 0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:51.719 We all, we all. So the next practice we had, 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.080 everybody was in that room. I wanted their head so 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:56.040 in practice they can't do them too you, So I 0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:59.640 just wanted their heads and practice, I said, next time, 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:01.439 open to the table. You're gonna saying about that tape? 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:05.120 Are you? So I got a bad in practice because 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:07.160 it wasn't It wasn't no leons that day. You weren't 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:10.920 even a free throw that day. I'm sending all this 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:17.720 down shoot if you want. Man, Yeah, we we definitely 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:19.520 got to get you with this second book, because we're 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:21.839 there's so many we probably don't even have enough time 0:47:21.880 --> 0:47:24.000 to getting all these stories. There's so many names. Now, 0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:29.800 Brad Doherty, you know, he was with he got drafted, 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:31.960 he was with Cleveland man. He was a big he 0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:34.719 was a big guy. Right, you're you're a big guy. 0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:37.960 Tell us some of the big guys that you you 0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:42.920 had to bang with in the post that just they 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:47.160 were soft. Just be honest, like plays look like Tarzan, 0:47:47.640 --> 0:47:51.719 play like I like, I like Brad Dorton. I'm not 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:55.719 saying brand I'm just talking about just overall. I mean, yeah, 0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:58.560 I mean, I mean a lot of like you said, 0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:02.200 they blow the whilst a and you know they blow me. 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.160 If I was an offensive guy, and some of the 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:08.520 guys I played against, if I got much called them, 0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:11.400 I probably my better player. I've probably been like a player. 0:48:11.640 --> 0:48:13.960 You know, I'm probably be be minded player. But I 0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:16.279 don't mind. I set my role. I don't have to 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:19.120 be a player. My key thing, well, I made him 0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:22.239 respect me. Anybody wouldn't level. I just made him respect me. 0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:26.239 So I don't have respect, you know. I know, I 0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:28.360 you know, make some money some of these guys, but 0:48:28.440 --> 0:48:32.359 it's all good. Just respect me. You know, I put long, 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:33.759 I can put my own key in my door and 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.719 turning and going somehow house. I was good. I'm gonna 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:40.160 go off some names and and you tell me first 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.920 thing to pop in your mind, David Robinson, I like 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:47.719 that Robert, good hearted guy until he said he made 0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:50.719 a comment about something that I never was thought he 0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:52.680 would speak up because I never heard him talking in 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:56.400 his whole career about the top of it. And I 0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:58.879 just want saying like I like him, and to that point, 0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:00.759 I still like him, but he just I never thought 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:04.960 he would get into the controversial conversation about what something 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:08.239 was happening. And I just said, wow, I was olvera 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:10.759 heard the whole I said this to the paper. I said, 0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:12.719 I wish I would have heard this whole career speak 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.200 up while I speak up eighteen years later. So he's 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:22.759 a great player. Achimalajuan, Top three Folds, Sinners, that well man. 0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:25.239 Listen some of those low post movies that that dream had, 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:28.719 that dreamshake it was, it was. It was a dream 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:31.840 to watch. He left some nightmares. That's bass Pastrick. He 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:39.480 should know he's sniping. Now. Uh, let's see, let's see, 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:45.000 let's see. Um, let's go with Sean Kimp. I like 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:48.319 Sean Kimp, so this would be a good comparison. Sean 0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:54.960 Kimp but a Greek freak oh Man. In my personal opinion, 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:59.080 Greek has gotten so much better. His game has got 0:50:01.120 --> 0:50:04.279 I can see that now. I'm sing. They were a 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:08.520 lot of like, yeah, you don't think so, I thought 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:11.359 Sean would. I think Sean younger was a lot more 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:15.279 raw and less hesitant than the Greek freak when he 0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:17.439 was younger Greek freak, So you don't think he wasn't 0:50:17.480 --> 0:50:22.520 hesitant and didn't have two years. He's really got in 0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:24.520 his he's in his bag these last couple of years. 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:28.640 I just even when Sean wasn't even when he was hesitant, 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:33.520 he he would go. He would attack absolutely, like if 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:35.840 he knew he didn't have no he was his jumper 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:37.960 was off, which was a lot I'm go on you 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:42.800 several times. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, he was gonna make you 0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:46.280 work on the back end and play some defense Greek. 0:50:46.320 --> 0:50:50.239 And sometimes he earlier on, he would disappear in the game. 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:53.960 Yeah you gave me seven seven feet in yonder and disappear. 0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:59.960 He figured what he did to Felix fit some points 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:03.120 without the three and making some sam teams, some free 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:05.880 throws and twos, and he just took old we just 0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:08.520 went down hill. He made Aiden looked like he was 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:12.840 he was there sitting for Phoenix. So he definitely improved. 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:14.840 I'm talking about this first to it. I made a 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:17.640 statement about he wouldn't have started back in the ages 0:51:17.680 --> 0:51:19.960 and nothing, and they went crazy about it. But my 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:22.359 thing is, if you look at the game back then, 0:51:22.719 --> 0:51:26.680 so Jerry Coole was the number one pick, she walat 0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:29.959 you know these guys you do, you had to be good. 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:32.520 They ain't get you three years to get good. That's different. 0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:35.399 He got the thirty fourth field. This guy was good 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:38.759 coming out of the gate. And the fans don't get 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:42.840 like he wud had a hard time back then. Bill Lambier, 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:46.759 I like lamb Bill. He never did nothing to me, 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:49.399 So I ain't got any this man said about saying 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:51.800 anything bad. I'm just I know a lot of people like, 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:54.560 oh he played there. Yeah, he don't. Like I said. 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:57.759 People don't let you do lambre do something dirty and 0:51:57.960 --> 0:51:59.680 you don't do somebody to him. You let him do it. 0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:02.239 So okay. But he never went out of his way 0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:07.400 to do nothing to me. He changed the game with 0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:12.080 this guy, you mean well changing He changed the game. 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:16.680 Cry changed the game. I mean right now the Greeks 0:52:16.680 --> 0:52:18.960 were changing of the game because he he getting thirty 0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:22.759 some points a night with the ease nobody's nobody helping 0:52:22.800 --> 0:52:25.239 out on defense. No more, there's no help out once 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:27.879 you be the one guy. It's a dunk. It's more. 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:31.000 I say, it's so most dunc and I ain't see 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:35.520 this is don't get it. Dune comes ups. That was 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:38.680 a stinker. So, I mean you've had You've talked about 0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:40.560 some of your altercations, so you've ben't smacked up. But 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:43.640 one thing I pulled out of the book is you 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:48.160 also present at the nine Source Awards, a classic year 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:51.839 in hip hop. You talked about Tupac being in the room, 0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:53.640 Biggie being in the room, and this is right before 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:56.520 their deaths. Speak on that a little bit. That to 0:52:56.640 --> 0:52:59.320 me just is just so robust of a story that 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:01.400 that you were able to present and be in the 0:53:01.520 --> 0:53:05.799 room at that time, you know, in that era hip hop. Yeah. 0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:07.719 So and the book we talked about that. But it 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:11.680 was a lot of tension, you know, Uh, Jethro had 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:14.040 a hunting some guys that came in from New York 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:17.040 and get the Woutane. You got this this level of 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:19.279 puffet with this group you got, I mean just all 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:21.719 New York, all the different girls. There was a lot 0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:26.080 of tension and not just like I can't believe basically 0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:29.319 they still they really. I think they pumped New York, 0:53:29.840 --> 0:53:32.560 you know, by going on stage Snoop sing y'all. Don't 0:53:32.600 --> 0:53:34.759 love Snoop Dog You're in New York, I said in 0:53:34.800 --> 0:53:37.239 the book, like why should you love to get your 0:53:37.280 --> 0:53:39.839 ward and going back home? I mean, I ain't gonna 0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:43.120 love you. I mean it's just like, I don't know, 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:45.239 but I spent a lot of stuff in New York. 0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:48.239 I never would believe what happened. It happened, So I 0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:51.560 can see why that happened. You know, when people started 0:53:51.600 --> 0:53:54.560 to start, you know, taking over your turf, and you 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:58.720 don't fight back the right way. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:02.719 You know that again the two part the new leg life. 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:06.320 In a way that something probably transparent from what happened, 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:09.200 not just that night, but altogether. You know what I'm saying, 0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:11.759 something built up to both of them life. That's why 0:54:11.800 --> 0:54:15.560 they're not here today. Well, I'm gonna just tell you, man, 0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:17.600 it's been a it's been a pleasure man, just to 0:54:17.680 --> 0:54:21.359 talk to you. And here here the stories. Um, I'm 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:24.600 really really interested in diving deep diving in a book 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:28.759 just to hear and look at just the stuff that's 0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:31.680 not making it, the little small things that you know 0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:35.359 that you talk about, you know, knowing the details. There's 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:37.080 a lot in that book of knowing the details that 0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:39.719 it's not gonna be at what we call click bait 0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:43.000 because it's not juicy enough. But it's transparent, it's textural. 0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:47.120 It's textural that gives the essence of who you are, man. 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:50.799 And so for us to have you on cut to it, man, 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:53.480 it's it's it's an honor just because I use the 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.800 word bully, but it's more of just saying that old school, 0:54:57.320 --> 0:55:01.040 old school, old school flavor o school stuff. No matter 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:08.480 how current, how provocative, or how extravagant and nice new 0:55:08.560 --> 0:55:11.520 things are, the old school stuff is what we always 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:15.319 go back to. And and and your old school do man, 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:18.160 and and um so, Man, it's just it's just kind 0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:20.680 of cool to sit here and and talk to you 0:55:20.719 --> 0:55:24.120 because I remember you're the type of players my grandpa 0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.320 in football and basketball. I say, look, you want to 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:29.320 play ball. These are the men you have to mirror 0:55:29.440 --> 0:55:33.480 your game after. Right, They hit first, ask questions last, 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:38.480 and when they make a mistake, hey they made a mistake, 0:55:39.200 --> 0:55:43.799 but they hit you in them out first. Nobody saying 0:55:43.840 --> 0:55:45.960 what you just said. But mostly people want to I 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:48.759 get that a lot. You know, people just hard work 0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:51.960 or do this and that, but most people want remember 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:54.320 the game had someone sexy doing this and that. But 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:56.960 I get a lot like just the hard work. That's 0:55:57.080 --> 0:55:59.040 how you take the charge and do this and that. 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:01.440 A lot of people I didn't. I was the similar 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:03.680 player to you, and I did that. I made my 0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:05.840 team better about doing all these things I'm saying, I 0:56:05.880 --> 0:56:08.120 appreciate it goes. I didn't look at it like I 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:09.880 had to score twenty points. Everything I looked at I 0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:11.880 had to get my team going, had to set the tone. 0:56:12.080 --> 0:56:14.560 So my thing is, yeah, you don't get a lot 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:16.760 of trains of doing what you're doing, but somebody always 0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:19.640 watching you. That's what somebody always watching you because you 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:22.480 mean something, not don't nothing the matter. They can talk 0:56:22.560 --> 0:56:24.520 you down, but you know what you know what you 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:27.759 can do, do it, do be consistent with what you do. 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:30.240 That's all. So if you couldn't do it, they wouldn't 0:56:30.239 --> 0:56:34.480 pick you. You with me playing so to you, than 0:56:34.600 --> 0:56:39.839 you are man. You are a unique person. You are 0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:44.319 well worth it, You are competent, and most of all, 0:56:45.360 --> 0:56:49.080 your Lovable. I'm Steve Smith, singer, I'm Gerald Little John 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:55.040 and this is cut to It. Cut to It with 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:59.200 Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is a production of 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:04.240 Cut to It LLC, Balto Creative Media, The Black Effect 0:57:04.440 --> 0:57:08.080 and I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, 0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:12.240 visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast, or wherever 0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:15.880 you listen to your favorite shows from Cut to It. 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:20.919 Executive producer Steve Smith, Singer co host Gerard Little John, 0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:26.000 talent in booking manager Joe Fusci, Social media team Wesley 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:30.120 Robinson and John Show from Balto Creative Media. Cut to 0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:34.320 It is produced by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:39.400 production assistance by Alex Lebrec. Production Coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:42.760 music by Alex Johnson, lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. 0:57:44.560 --> 0:57:47.000 You ain't heard about it, then we're about to let 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:51.280 you know. It's all