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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steffone

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Speaker 1: never told you a production of Buyheart Radio. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we are in well into the new year, which blows

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Speaker 1: my mind, and we've been talking a lot about the

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Speaker 1: good and the bad of resolutions, especially marketing around resolutions.

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Speaker 1: You recently had an episode where we even talked about

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Speaker 1: this briefly. But I want to bring back our episode

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Speaker 1: we did on the femininization of self care because this

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Speaker 1: is a very like at the beginning of the year,

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Speaker 1: self care is a big thing of it, and I

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Speaker 1: have gotten a series of headlines that are you know,

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Speaker 1: clearly directed towards women. But we've talked about this before,

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Speaker 1: but in our show Inbox, we get a lot of

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Speaker 1: cold emails. Some of the are very funny. Especially love

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Speaker 1: when they make the mistake in the name part. I

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Speaker 1: love that you live for that. I also love when

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Speaker 1: they kind of threaten you where they're like, you don't

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Speaker 1: respond within five days this offer is I'm like what.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love when they don't know what we do

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Speaker 2: and just assume that by the title they know what

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Speaker 2: we do and they just make this random Yeah. Those

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Speaker 2: are my favorite.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I do get a kick out of them

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Speaker 1: sometimes and for anyone who does those, I know, like,

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Speaker 1: we're not making fun of you, we just get some

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Speaker 1: that are very comical.

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Speaker 3: It is. I used to do that actually for another

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Speaker 3: job I did. Yes, it's work. So yeah.

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Speaker 2: That one dude though, who was like, you really need

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Speaker 2: a note about how women are ruining the boat.

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Speaker 3: They're ruining, women are ruining things for women.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but I have been getting some that are kind

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Speaker 1: of self care for men and it's very comical to

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Speaker 1: me and how they phrase it where it's still in

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Speaker 1: that kind of like very stereotypical manly man.

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Speaker 3: Like take care of yourself, but look what doing it like,

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Speaker 3: I'm just.

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Speaker 1: So perplexed by this whole thing, so in that vein,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to bring back this classic episode, so please enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie.

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Speaker 2: And Samantha and OW come to Steff.

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Speaker 3: I've never told you protection of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: So for today's question, Samantha, I'm not sure you'll know

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Speaker 1: the answer, but do you remember when you became familiar

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Speaker 1: with the idea of self care?

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Speaker 2: You know, I honestly don't think it was until recently

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Speaker 2: that I learned of this. And when I say recently,

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Speaker 2: the idea and concept of self care was not something

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Speaker 2: in my Christian upbringing. Sure, so that was not something

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Speaker 2: especially as a woman who was supposed to be the

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Speaker 2: caretaker of the nurturer. That's not a thing. For my mother.

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Speaker 2: I definitely never saw that from her. She's constantly going.

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Speaker 2: She is still constantly going to this day and she

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Speaker 2: is sixty five. So for me, I don't think it

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Speaker 2: really came into play until I literally had a panic attack,

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Speaker 2: anxiety attack that shut me down for a week in

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Speaker 2: when I was working as a child abuse investigator and

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Speaker 2: I had a panic attack in the middle of Longhorns. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I did, to the point that my friends were like,

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Speaker 2: are you okay?

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Speaker 3: Are you okay?

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Speaker 2: Like coworkers and they're like, don't look at her, don't

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Speaker 2: look at her, because then you made it worse, right,

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Speaker 2: And so it wasn't until then, so out of college

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Speaker 2: in my first job, that I truly figured out, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to kill myself through doing too much and

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Speaker 2: not taking care of myself because I'm putting the responsibility

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Speaker 2: of the world on me. So I feel like it

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Speaker 2: really wasn't until about two thousand and six, so pretty

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Speaker 2: mch a long time that I understood the concept without

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Speaker 2: knowing the term, right, and that included a lot of

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Speaker 2: hiking and exercising, and that was my form of self care.

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Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I'd already started therapy, but

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Speaker 2: that was trauma related. So self care is really different

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Speaker 2: from delving into trauma. Yeah, as we all know, as.

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Speaker 3: We all know.

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Speaker 1: People who listen to this show. Certainly, I actually don't

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Speaker 1: think I knew about self care because I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know about it in terms of taking

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Speaker 1: care of yourself, but the term and the idea of

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Speaker 1: like prioritizing it and that it's important, I don't think

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Speaker 1: I knew until twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Before on the show in several different instances.

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Speaker 3: I am really bad at it. I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of women are.

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Speaker 1: So even when I was like, Okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do this self care thing, my attitude around it was

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Speaker 1: the opposite of what it needed to be. It was

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Speaker 1: like another check box, right, that made it at another

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Speaker 1: stressor and oh I have to do this thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we are going to talk about that, but I

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Speaker 1: it's still something I struggle with.

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Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I think for me, Yeah, the term

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Speaker 2: was not self care. It was mental health day, which

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Speaker 2: I know we talk about in my industry where I

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Speaker 2: came from, with especially with like government jobs or service jobs.

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Speaker 2: We talk about mental health days and trying to get them.

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Speaker 2: And it's so frowned upon in that industry. Like they

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Speaker 2: tell you to do it, they tell you to do

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Speaker 2: it right, they tell you to shut off your phone,

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Speaker 2: they tell you that, you know, you take you a

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Speaker 2: week of vacation, and a few people have, and I

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Speaker 2: love and admire that, And I think few people have

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Speaker 2: because they had to and it like they had families

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Speaker 2: or whatever whatnot, and it caused a lot of problems

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Speaker 2: in marriages or problems with their children because a lot

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Speaker 2: of people would put their job first. But we were

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Speaker 2: told to take our mental health day, but made sure

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Speaker 2: to be told, don't say it's a mental health day,

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Speaker 2: tell them you're sick. It's just kind of that level.

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Speaker 2: So for the longest time, and I know think people

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Speaker 2: think it that way still, that term is really really

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Speaker 2: it's definitely become a little more of a fad. The

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Speaker 2: term not necessarily a practice, so to me, is kind

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Speaker 2: of a newer idea and it does feel really selfish. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: to say you need that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So we're going to talk about that that feeling,

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Speaker 1: and today we're also going to talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: how self care has been feminized, how seen as sort

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Speaker 1: of this purview of women, and it's been in the news.

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Speaker 3: A lot lately for a variety of reasons.

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Speaker 1: But I did want to bring this up that Pinterest

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Speaker 1: recently announced guidelines to I guess, foster a healthier environment

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Speaker 1: on their platform, to be kinder and to be more

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Speaker 1: positive in general, which I find interesting because Pinterest.

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Speaker 3: To me, there's a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Great things that can happen on Pinterest, but I see

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Speaker 1: the negative of almost that like wishful. You know, your

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Speaker 1: pin board if I want to be what is that

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Speaker 1: called inspiration and you want to be this thin and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this and this and this out like

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Speaker 1: that perfect life that you build, Okay, unhealthy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not really into Pinterest, so but I'm definitely

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Speaker 2: seeing the boards and that sounds horrifying because also people

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Speaker 2: can look at this.

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Speaker 1: Right they can, but you can put it on private.

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Speaker 1: I think all of mine are on private, except for

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Speaker 1: my random nineties board.

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Speaker 3: I was going to a nineties theme party. Now shut

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Speaker 3: with costume, of course, but all my liked what you'll

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Speaker 3: find out soon enough, you.

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Speaker 2: Know what that makes me paining. Let's not take it.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know.

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Speaker 1: So back to this Pinterest thing is they have this

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Speaker 1: creator code that says I agree to be kind, check

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Speaker 1: my facts, be aware of triggers, practice inclusion, and do

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Speaker 1: no harm, which I'm curious how they will reinforce those.

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Speaker 1: But we're seeing more social media platforms try to do

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Speaker 1: these things, which is something else we've.

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Speaker 3: Talked about a lot.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I first came on as a

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Speaker 1: host of this show, some people would write in and

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Speaker 1: say why they didn't like trigger warnings, why they thought

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Speaker 1: they were like useless and actually harmful, and I would

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Speaker 1: argue back, like my side of it. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's shifting towards people being more aware of why

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Speaker 1: you need to think about those sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: Right, I mean, honestly, that's kind of why we how

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Speaker 2: that conversation about Trauma Series began, everybody was so leaning

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Speaker 2: to oh my god, everybody's so PC, they're so sensitive,

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. No, but this is why we need

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Speaker 2: these things, because it has for our entire lives. We

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Speaker 2: didn't have this, and I really wish we did. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is okay to have those warnings, but why it

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Speaker 2: was important and why we need to respect them. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's interesting to see because we have kind of gone

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Speaker 2: all back and forth and back and forth of is

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Speaker 2: this a problem or is this a solution or is

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Speaker 2: this adding on to the problems, And it's kind of

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Speaker 2: I'm really glad to see that it's sticking and it's

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Speaker 2: becoming a thing, aren't you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember in particular, one person was a

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Speaker 1: professor and they wrote in and they were like, I

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Speaker 1: just feel that giving trigger warnings it means that topics

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Speaker 1: that need to be talked about won't be talked about.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I hear you, but I think

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I won't show up to whatever lesson.

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Speaker 1: It just means I'll show up knowing I need to

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Speaker 1: be prepared for this. And I, obviously you and I

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Speaker 1: don't think that doesn't mean don't talk about something. It's

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Speaker 1: just giving people that like warning if they need it

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Speaker 1: to take care of themselves. And speaking of let's do

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Speaker 1: a brief definition like we like to do what it

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Speaker 1: is self care.

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Speaker 3: According to the World Health organization. It is quote.

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Speaker 1: Self care is what people do for themselves to establish

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Speaker 1: and maintain health and to prevent and deal with illness.

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Speaker 1: It is a broad concept, encompassing hygiene, general and personal nutrition,

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Speaker 1: type in quality of food eaten, lifestyle, sporting activities, leisure,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, environmental factors, living conditions, social habits, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: socio and economic factors, income level, cultural beliefs, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and self medication. This can include things like yes, nutrition, hygiene,

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Speaker 1: or seeking medical care. It is often described as something

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Speaker 1: that brings you joy. And this definition is pretty old.

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Speaker 1: I think it's from nineteen ninety eight actually, and it's

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Speaker 1: been updated and various outlets like the World Health Organization.

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Speaker 1: To me, this makes sense, but I think of self

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Speaker 1: care as a much more like find something, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: brings you joy and do that thing, right.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that large.

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Speaker 1: Definition that makes sense as well.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Some have put self care into categories like emotional self care,

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Speaker 1: taking dedicated breaks, physical self care, getting enough sleep, eating well,

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Speaker 1: and spiritual self care, which can include spending time in nature.

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Speaker 1: Some break it down even further into temporary versus enduring,

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Speaker 1: so like a one time self care thing or something

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Speaker 1: that is an ongoing self care thing. And also I

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Speaker 1: really recommend looking up.

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Speaker 3: Actually it's not. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, but the World Health Organization

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Speaker 1: has a self care hippopotamus diagram, which did bring me

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Speaker 1: joy and I did laugh quite heartily at it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love hippopotamus, so even.

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Speaker 3: Though they're quite dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Samantha, I'm sure I also like many other things that

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Speaker 2: I would rather not hang out with you. It's fair

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Speaker 2: just saying so. It can manifest many ways, like writing

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Speaker 2: or journaling, meditating, yoga, hiking, listening to music, stretching and

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Speaker 2: crafting a long bath with some wine one of my favorites.

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Speaker 2: Taking time on social media, which I've yet to be

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Speaker 2: able to do, enjoy a nice cup of coffee, a

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Speaker 2: facial allowing yourself to say no or cancel plans, which

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Speaker 2: I'm a pro at happy hour with friends, which oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness, we've gotten vaccinated so we can do that again. Yay.

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Speaker 2: Steel safely, of course, and basically a way for you

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Speaker 2: to make space to relax, check in with yourself and recharge.

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Speaker 2: And as an introvert, I definitely have to do this

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Speaker 2: on a consistent basis, self care goes hand in hand

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Speaker 2: with mindfulness, of being aware when you're engaging in unhealthy

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Speaker 2: habits or behaviors and asking yourself what triggered that?

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Speaker 1: Right and quarantine has made self care more difficult in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which sounds like that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: But if you're thinking, but all I've been doing is

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Speaker 1: watching Netflix on my couch during the pandemic, isn't that

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Speaker 1: self care?

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Speaker 3: Why do I need self care? It does not necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Count unless it's a mindful decision to take care of yourself.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really qualify as self care. It might be

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Speaker 1: a coping mechanism. But if that's all you're doing, you're

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Speaker 1: buying and mind won't thank you for it. No blame,

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Speaker 1: no shame at all. There is an end in my

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Speaker 1: couch that was not there before this quarantine. Oh it's

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Speaker 1: just an oddspace to navigate our thoughts on self care

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Speaker 1: and productivity when you are confined inside.

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Speaker 3: At least that's been my case.

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Speaker 1: I've definitely given a lot of thought to mindfulness, and

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Speaker 1: I think I've gotten better at it. But by getting

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Speaker 1: better at it, I've learned I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: other issues that I need.

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Speaker 3: To get better at.

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Speaker 2: I think this is the problem with reflecting too much

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Speaker 2: on yourself. You're like, well, let me check in. Oh crap.

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Speaker 2: There are so many things, especially for a person like

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Speaker 2: you who's on the go all the time. For me

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Speaker 2: talking about the Netflix thing, to not think about those things.

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Speaker 2: I consistently watch the same things over and over and

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Speaker 2: over again, so at least I can just drift off.

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Speaker 2: But it's all the time. And for me, the practice

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Speaker 2: of self care is actually meditating. I've talked about the

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Speaker 2: commat before, and I've talked about how much I enjoy it,

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Speaker 2: and I don't use it as often as I like,

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Speaker 2: meaning daily, But when I do, it is a self

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Speaker 2: awareness of knowing, Okay, I need to do this to

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Speaker 2: focus a little bit. That's not Netflix, you know, And

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Speaker 2: so I think, yeah, definitely, But having those moments is

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Speaker 2: very RESTful to me, to be able to sit and

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Speaker 2: not do anything and just hear nice water sounds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, Also those tubs are like, why can't I

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Speaker 2: do this all the time? What is going on?

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Speaker 1: And like you said earlier, Samantha, though self care is

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Speaker 1: often painted as selfish or indulgent, it's really important to

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Speaker 1: our health. Research shows practicing it promotes better health, longer life,

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Speaker 1: less stress, higher self esteem, and more productivity. Actually, not

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Speaker 1: practicing self care can have negative impacts on your mind

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Speaker 1: and body, leading to things like burnout, not just professionally

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Speaker 1: but personally, and we've seen a lot of conversation about

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Speaker 1: this recently in the activist space. It can also be

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Speaker 1: costly in terms of doctor's visits that might be necessary

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Speaker 1: if you're not looking after yourself, or even the loss

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Speaker 1: of work when it comes to burnout.

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Speaker 2: Right, and also with burnout, we could also talk about

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Speaker 2: the new term is fatigue, and we were talking a

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Speaker 2: lot about now because we're talking about COVID fatigue or

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Speaker 2: quarantine fatigue or any of those things and try to

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Speaker 2: go back out. It's a whole thing. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: definitely something that actually helps you care for yourself in

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Speaker 2: a way that seems selfish, but it's actually not. And

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Speaker 2: the thing about self care, it's not just about you,

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Speaker 2: but how you impact the other people in your life

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Speaker 2: and how you can serve your community and do your job.

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Speaker 2: As the importance of self care has been largely recognized

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Speaker 2: in many ways, it's been co opted, yes by beauty

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Speaker 2: companies and feminized. Of course it has. And if you

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Speaker 2: search for self care kits, you'll see and I will

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Speaker 2: say this because I actually try to find one for

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Speaker 2: a friend who is going through a really hard time,

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Speaker 2: and oh my goodness, you see a lot of small

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Speaker 2: related items and chocolate, and the entire time I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if she likes to do any of things,

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Speaker 2: like Michael likes to ride motorcycles and you know she

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Speaker 2: likes to go to target practice. There's no need for this,

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Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. If you love it, that's great too. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I love chocolate. Give me my chocolate. If you specifically

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Speaker 2: search for men's self care, it's almost always black and

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Speaker 2: red accented grilling stuff and or alcohol, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: women like alcohol toos. But that's not always a solution

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Speaker 2: for self care and my illness. Just put that out there.

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Speaker 2: And grilling is great. Grilling is great. If you like that,

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Speaker 2: great spall stuff is great. Once again, love that. But clearly,

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Speaker 2: this is a space, like many others, that has been very,

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Speaker 2: very gendered, to even the point to say the words

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Speaker 2: like mental health day it seems weak, and so people

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Speaker 2: don't want to say it when it really does not

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Speaker 2: need to be in a lot of ways. The gendering

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Speaker 2: is unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and more and more people are getting

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Speaker 1: in on self care. From twenty fifteen to twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: Google trends indicate that searches for self care doubled. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is this unhealthy gender split, and we'll get into that,

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Speaker 1: but first we're gonna pause for quick break for a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you, sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back with self care for men.

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Speaker 2: When I see this, I keep one say, just for men.

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Speaker 1: Like the hair product, Yes, I mean that's a space

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Speaker 1: where the companies have tried to like masculinize right self cares, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: manly man, smelled good, so you can get cute lady

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Speaker 1: over there.

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Speaker 2: Right, look at this gray bottle is obviously for you,

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Speaker 2: the dark gray and only.

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Speaker 1: Clear with the red top almost always yeah old spice.

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Speaker 2: Really They have specifically brought in a woman to tell

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Speaker 2: her she can't use it because it's not for her

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Speaker 2: for their newer products, right why.

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Speaker 1: Because it smells too nice. So she's like, that's obviously

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: Right right, But he's saying, no, it's mine, don't touch it.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm can do that, y's whatever product is available.

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Speaker 1: So men are not as involved in the self care

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Speaker 1: space as women, and there are a couple of reasons why.

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Speaker 1: One reason is that there are more entry points into

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Speaker 1: self care for women, whether it is Friends of yours

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Speaker 1: or magazines or Instagram, it's general more accessible and acceptable

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Speaker 1: for women. Some of that is the beauty industry trying

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Speaker 1: to capitalize off women, no doubt, but it is more acceptable.

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Speaker 3: In our very warped society.

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Speaker 1: Taking care of yourself is sometimes viewed as yes, a

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Speaker 1: weakness or selfish, and because we view women as the

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Speaker 1: quote weaker gender, it's more acceptable for them to do it.

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Speaker 1: And beauty was a space that was already dominated by

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Speaker 1: women in a lot of ways, so it was an

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Speaker 1: easier transition.

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Speaker 3: Not that all self care is beauty based.

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Speaker 1: Not at all, but a lot of it when we

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Speaker 1: see it advertised, a lot of it is. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of dismissal of self care as being for snowflakes,

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Speaker 1: are vappish women, indulgent women, things like that.

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Speaker 2: Right, which is hilarious because when we look at the

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Speaker 2: job industry and we talk about the working from home,

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Speaker 2: how it's doubled women's workflowd and yet we want to

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Speaker 2: say this is weak makes me laugh again. This is

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Speaker 2: a big deal for a lot of reasons. We've talked

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Speaker 2: in previous episodes about the rates of mental health issues

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Speaker 2: and suicide for men. American men are three point five

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Speaker 2: times more likely to die by suicide than women, and

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Speaker 2: men are more likely to delay help if they seek

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Speaker 2: it at all, and they typically don't have as strong

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Speaker 2: of a support system as women. While self care obviously

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Speaker 2: is not going to make these things go away, it

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Speaker 2: can be an important part of someone's mental health. But again,

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Speaker 2: the Internet seems to indicate that self care for men

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Speaker 2: is generally not taken seriously or outright mocked as weakness.

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Speaker 2: And of course, again this is kind of that conversation

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Speaker 2: of self care has been kind of hijacked by the

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Speaker 2: beauty industry, and so therefore that type of level of spae,

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Speaker 2: massages and going to salons so feminized that men cannot

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Speaker 2: be associated with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we know, even.

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Speaker 1: Though they should.

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Speaker 3: If you want to do that stuff as a man,

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Speaker 3: it should be acceptable.

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Speaker 2: Massages are sashes are one.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they freak me out on one level, but

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Speaker 3: the end.

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Speaker 2: Is always endemic.

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Speaker 3: Has kind of care yes, yes, it's gonna take a while.

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Speaker 2: And then we can talk about the hypersexualization of the

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Speaker 2: fact that massages are a double entendre right when it

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Speaker 2: comes to referencing for men. So that's a whole other conversation. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that I hate just to put that out there. And

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Speaker 2: when self care does exist, it's often hyper masculinized, even

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Speaker 2: in proponents of it use a lot of words like

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Speaker 2: manly and masculine and all those stupid words.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I read several of these articles that had a

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Speaker 1: lot of uses of manly and masculine, and this really

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Speaker 1: is I think it's easy to dismiss, but this really

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Speaker 1: is a huge part of what we're talking about when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about like toxic masculinity and mental health, and

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Speaker 1: it has it ripples out and touches all kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: But there was a part of me that was almost like,

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Speaker 1: I this feels like the weakness to me that someone

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Speaker 1: has to pander to you and be like, hey, manly man,

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Speaker 1: and you'll still be a manly man if you like

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Speaker 1: do this thing, and I'm not like I don't there's

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Speaker 1: not a weakness there of like recognizing you need to

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself. Right, and I get why these

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Speaker 1: articles are doing that, but it just feels very sad

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Speaker 1: that this is the point that we're at, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and then when we talk about self care,

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Speaker 2: a lot of it is done in isolation. Yeah, and then,

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Speaker 2: as we were saying previously about how oftentimes they don't

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Speaker 2: have support system. When we see people talking about self

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Speaker 2: care for men, whether it is having a step of scotch,

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Speaker 2: sitting by yourself in your lounge share looking out the window, like,

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Speaker 2: that's the idea of self care. And that's not always

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Speaker 2: the most healthy either, the whole like the private den,

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Speaker 2: the man cake, it's all very isolating, and to have

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Speaker 2: time with men is to be with the boys, but

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Speaker 2: that's not necessarily for self care. Once again, and so

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Speaker 2: it's kind of that question of why are we so

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Speaker 2: determined to isolate men as well as to look down

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Speaker 2: on women when they do need support, When everyone needs support.

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Speaker 2: We know this, we know this live, yes.

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Speaker 3: And I do. I didn't want to put in here.

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Speaker 1: America is not the only place, by any means where

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Speaker 1: this ideology exists, and because of the pervasive attitude, there

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Speaker 1: are frequently more crisis resources available to women. Right before

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Speaker 1: we recorded this I found a really fascinating and upsetting

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Speaker 1: article from Australia about a very similar thing of high

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Speaker 1: rates of suicide among men but not a lot of

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Speaker 1: resources dedicated to giving them help. So that's another issue,

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Speaker 1: like on a even a governmental level. And when you

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Speaker 1: think of in the past of men being breadwinners and

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00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: that idea of like the scott the mad Men, you know,

438
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: it's almost sexy that you are alone with your Scotch

439
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: in a dim lighting why your family is like you

440
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: just exactly so if you look at that idea when

441
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: being a man basically meant working all the time and

442
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: not really making time for your family, self care doesn't

443
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: fit into that.

444
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 3: It's anathetical to that whole idea.

445
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: And we've talked about that on the show about particularly

446
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 1: here in the United States, the idea of a workaholic

447
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: and how it's in fact been painted.

448
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: It's such a good thing when it is unhealthy.

449
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: And obviously times have changed from like the mad Men era,

450
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 1: but a lot of that toxic cultural stuff is still

451
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: baked in there. We haven't gotten rid of it. So

452
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: that's a part of this whole conversation. I did see

453
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: when I was researching this some sites calling for men

454
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: to prioritize self care, but.

455
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 3: They did it.

456
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: A lot of them did it by blaming women for

457
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: feminizing the space. Basically that because women and female influencers

458
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: that they got a lot of blame dominate in quote

459
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: self care, they've kept men out and that men need

460
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: to get in and take it over, which is wild

461
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: to me.

462
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: A lot of they can't coexist, like no in any

463
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: way right, so it has to be us versus them,

464
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: and it literally becomes the whole man's playing situation of no, no, no, no,

465
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: let me show you how we're going to do it,

466
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: and this is how we're going to do it, and

467
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: it's our space. Don't touch it. Yeah, how Darius? And

468
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 2: maybe they can talk about that being with like video

469
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 2: gaming or any of that and being like it used

470
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: to be comfortable. Now women are doing it too, and

471
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, I know, where is this divide that

472
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: it has to be one or the other? I don't understand.

473
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: Of course, we also have a lot of pushback with

474
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: the whole We're losing our masculinity, we're losing real men,

475
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: So we have to claim the space in a different

476
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: manner to take back what is out right which is

477
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: any attention. I guess.

478
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

479
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: I mean that whole perceived loss of power and and

480
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: we've talked about that before too, of the kind of

481
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: feminization of the Democratic Party in our country and the

482
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: masculinization of the Republican Party and the Republican Party very

483
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: much being like no snowflakes, while at the same time

484
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: being extremely sensitive, uh, cancel culture.

485
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 3: That's a different thing I did.

486
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: I was reminded of that Gillette commercial where they were like, dudes,

487
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: it's not cool to mistreat women, which you can argue

488
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: back and forth about when companies do that the benefits

489
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: in the town sides.

490
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 3: But people were so upset about, like, how damn you

491
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: tell men we can't mistreat women?

492
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: Ridiculous anyway, that's I don't remember that commercial. Oh God,

493
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: remember this commercial.

494
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 3: It came out I think.

495
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: It's the twenty nineteen Super Bowl, and it was just

496
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: a you know, commercial about like it's not cool to

497
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: make these comments to women or a cat callar you know,

498
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: sexually assault someone not cool, and people freaked out about it.

499
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: God damn, you say I can't assault someone.

500
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: This is very like loose memory.

501
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: So if people are like, actually it was about this

502
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: I just I just remember that what we're talking about

503
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: has tried to been tackled in age let commercial, and

504
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: so that's where we're at.

505
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, speaking of commercials, obviously we see this in

506
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: beauty hygiene projects a lot. Usually a big yeah. It's

507
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: a big muscular dude selling this idea and that he

508
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: uses X y Z product and he is the doodliest

509
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: of dudes, usually in a humorous manner. Of course. I

510
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: think the yoga commercial comes to mind. I'm like, what,

511
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: And then the food. Everything has to be bigger portions

512
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: or bigger sizes for the hungry. Okay, cool, cool cool.

513
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: We talked about the old spice and I'm still trying

514
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: to figure out what's happening there. They're not letting that go,

515
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: and we know AX try to turn it a little bit.

516
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's worked well for them. Has

517
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: it worked well?

518
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 4: I don't.

519
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, but knowing them,

520
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say no. But that's a very acts.

521
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: Try to be all like, I'm a sensitive dude. This

522
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: is the smell I have. I think maybe I'm thinking

523
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: about this wrong. It's been a lot of time since

524
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of commercials. My favorite is want

525
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: there it is. That's my favorite. I like the dessert commercials.

526
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.

527
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: I still bought to that. And then there are some

528
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: areas traditionally viewed as self care that men do tape

529
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: part in, especially when it comes to physical looks. Everybody

530
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: loves a good trim beard. We know this. However, this

531
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: is frequently more to me the standard and less about

532
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: taking care of themselves, you know, maybe being mocked constantly.

533
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: Like the whole level of metrosexual came out and everybody

534
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: was very either into it or not do into it.

535
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: So the lumberjack sexual came in as well, which is

536
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: kind of along those same lines. I just find that funny.

537
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: Do we have that for women?

538
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: What metrosexual level?

539
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

540
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: I don't think we do.

541
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: It might be worth investigating whole episode on. Yeah, I

542
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: don't think we do. I think you are either. It's

543
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: like the flip of I guess being slightly more masculine.

544
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, right.

545
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: I think that's the whole level of needing to identify

546
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: men as manly or not their sexuality, that we have

547
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: to know their sexuality, whether or not is benefits for

548
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: whatever reason. Whether so if he's introsexual, that means he's

549
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: heterosexual but has style right in that sense, So we

550
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: have to know, okay, okay, just because he has style

551
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: doesn't mean he's gay. We must classify this, which is

552
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: a whole level of homophobia in the yeah, that we

553
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: could talk about, which again kind of goes down to

554
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: this whole gender idea that we have to label it

555
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: and make sure we know that something is masculine in

556
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: order to prove manliness. Yep, and at the detriment and

557
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: the health of everyone.

558
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely a layer of homophobia involved in all

559
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: of this.

560
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: Despite all this native stuff, men's self care market it

561
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: is growing. According to Allied Market Research projects, it will

562
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: be worth one hundred and twenty two million dollars by

563
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. That's not necessarily a good thing, but

564
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: I guess it shows that at least companies they're making

565
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: movements in those areas capitalism, capitalism. Indeed, we didn't want

566
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: to talk about self care and women for a little

567
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: bit as well. But first we're going to pause for

568
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,

569
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: and we're back.

570
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor.

571
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: So a lot of people have written and spoken about

572
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: self care when it comes to women, us included, but

573
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: we did want to talk about it a little bit.

574
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: Over at Huffington Post, Lindsay Holmes wrote, self care shouldn't

575
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: be reduced to a fleeting activity or dispensable product. It

576
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: shouldn't even just be considered a wellness phenomenon for women.

577
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: It's a difficult but necessary act that helps us survive

578
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: in a world with work demands, family pressures, duties at home,

579
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: rampant incidents of sexual harassment, a relentless news cycle, financial worries,

580
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: and more. Inner reflection takes time and energy resources we're

581
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: already lacking.

582
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: Self care is hard work.

583
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to include that quote because I think people

584
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: forget when we're thinking, oh, it's this selfish, indulgent woman.

585
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: It is hard work, and it's something that you have

586
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: to prioritize and take the time for, which in itself

587
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: can be difficult when you do have all of these

588
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: things that she listed in more. I think a lot

589
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: of people do view it as sort of a hippie

590
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: dippy wellness phenomenon, and absolutely companies have capitalized on that,

591
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: and some people do treat it that way, But at

592
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: its core, that's not what it is and that's not

593
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: what it should be. Right Religiously, it was a whole command.

594
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: It was a whole day.

595
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: Whether we're looking at traditional Jewish cultures and or just

596
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: Western Christian ideas that Sunday is Sabbath. You know, people

597
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: get very upset about this sometimes, and some people don't

598
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: take it seriously at all, however you want to say it.

599
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: My parents got upset when alcohol sales happen on Sunday

600
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: and they're like, what's the world's going to But it

601
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: was a religious thing and it's somehow changed for a

602
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: lot of the cultures. And not that you have to

603
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: do it. You have to set a date. It shouldn't

604
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: be a command by an overlord, essentially, for the lack

605
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: of better words, But it was there for a reason.

606
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: And yeah, and talking about the fact that most of

607
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: the times, for women, this is the first thing to

608
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: go out the window if you have to take something

609
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 2: off your list, this is it and we know this,

610
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 2: we know this, which again part of that is if

611
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: we're not doing something, then we're not doing it right,

612
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: and that has this level of guilt. It is this

613
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: idea that productivity is the morality of your life, point blank.

614
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: And a lot of us measure success by productivity, whether

615
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: it's how many hustles you got, how many things are doing?

616
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: What are you've gotten by a certain age, Like I

617
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: still have it in my head that I am not successful.

618
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: I am not adulting because I did not hit these

619
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: markers that you and I talked about so many times.

620
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah.

621
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: The other day I think it was very fair somebody

622
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: called me an adult, which I am, but I was.

623
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 2: Like, oh, I mean just listing all the things that

624
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: I haven't done. Yeah, it's one of the first things

625
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: that I do, like, oh no, I haven't done this

626
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: and this and this and that does not and then

627
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: comparing myself to others who are fifteen years younger than me,

628
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: twenty years younger than me, thirty years younger than me

629
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: doing it better, and I'm like, what have I done

630
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: with my life? But I mean that's the kind of

631
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: thing is we define ourselves that way, which is detrimental,

632
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: yes in the end.

633
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: And I you know, back to good old capitalism. I

634
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: think there's a big part of it actually is that

635
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: idea of the workaholic and that that's somehow a good thing,

636
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: and that is what you measure success by. And then

637
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: on top of that this idea, especially in the United States,

638
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: that if you hustle hard enough, you will succeed no

639
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: matter what obstacles, systemic obstacles.

640
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 3: Are in your way.

641
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: And in that way, you're blaming yourself, well whether you

642
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: know it or not, for issues that are really beyond

643
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: your control.

644
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: And others blame others. They can't understand the systemic level

645
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: of why it can't be like this.

646
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: So it's like.

647
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 2: Cautionary tales like early Bird Get the worms. All this

648
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: bs has really been ingrained into our heads that we're

649
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: not successful if we do not follow these things and

650
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: have all of our savings and all of these things

651
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: saved away so that we can enjoy the easy, relaxed life,

652
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: which is very quickly disappearing for a lot of our generations,

653
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: that whole level of social security, we know, that financial

654
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: stability that doesn't exist where we talk about no living wages.

655
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: Starting as a freshly graduated college student with some loans

656
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: under my belt because my parents could not it's not

657
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: one of those that had everything saved away from me,

658
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: so I had to pay everything as best as I

659
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: could and that included some loans, including the fact that

660
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: I had to live on campus, all of those to say,

661
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: and then going to a job that only paid me

662
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand a year to live by myself, to

663
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: take care of myself for the first time ever. And

664
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 2: that doesn't include the fact that they took away money

665
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 2: for insurance. They take away money for all of these

666
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: benefits that I did not understand, you know, like all

667
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: of these things. And to the fact that we are

668
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: supposed to pretend like we know what we're doing. And

669
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 2: then realizing that my loans went from this to twenty

670
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: times that because of something that was out of my controls,

671
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: Like what the hell just happened? This became more than

672
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 2: my tuition for the four years, right, And to say, oh,

673
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: but you should have done it better, you should have

674
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: planned ahead. How do you tell a nineteen twenty two

675
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: year old to plan ahead?

676
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know, we that's a whole separate conversation,

677
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: but we really don't train people for that kind of stuff,

678
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: like young people, and then we're like surprised when they

679
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: don't know what to do, Like, okay, you're expecting this

680
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: eighteen year old to make the wise financial decisions.

681
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: Great, But that's the thing is that that means you

682
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: have failed because you are not to this level. But

683
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: you better not take care of yourself. Yeah, because you

684
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: will never get to that level.

685
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

686
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: And I think part of that too, which we're going

687
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit in a second, is

688
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: self esteem related. Like part of self care is you

689
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: have to say you're worth the self care, right, And

690
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: I think that's hard for a lot of people, and

691
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: I think especially marginalized folks. If you are living in

692
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: a country that has these systems in place, are just

693
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: social events that remind you that you're not valued as

694
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: much as say, straight white guy, it can be hard

695
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: to tell yourself like, no, I am and I deserve

696
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: to take this time. And just because I didn't understand

697
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 1: a very complicated financial system at the age of eighteen

698
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I don't deserve these things.

699
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 2: I still don't understand.

700
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: And Yeah, Since domestic work is still taken on more

701
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: by women, and studies show women have less leisure time

702
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: men by about three times, it can be harder for

703
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: women to carve out this time to take care of themselves,

704
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: and perhaps doing so comes with increased guilts and there

705
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: is a difference, which I do want to say here,

706
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: between meeting basic needs and self care.

707
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 3: So if you're saying.

708
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I've carved out the time to get enough

709
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: sleep tonight, that's great, that's not really self care.

710
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: It can be.

711
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: But like if you're talking about a very that's just

712
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: your norm is you don't get enough sleep, that's not

713
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: really a self care.

714
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: That's a basic need that you're not meeting.

715
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: And around the world, women don't have access to health

716
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: care at the same rates as men, which does impact

717
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: self care.

718
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 3: So that is another part of this conversation.

719
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: Right, and we know the pandemic alone has affected that immensely, immensely.

720
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: Even though again we've talked about the fact that you know,

721
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: we're at home, it's okay, we're we can do this constantly.

722
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: That's not true. We know this. We already talked about

723
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 2: again mentioning how the fact that majority of the household

724
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: work falls on women in general, as well as the

725
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: stress of being quarantined and stress of living in a

726
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 2: pandemic world causes a lot of that. And then when

727
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: you can't escape, so when your usual methods of escaping,

728
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: such as exercising with wherever you go to exercise and

729
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: or traveling, or even just being able to walk out

730
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: the door, that is highly affected as well. Again, we

731
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: talked about the fact that a lot of the money

732
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 2: that was slowly going towards women to help with care

733
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: has disappeared because other issues have come rise and we

734
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: know that when it comes down to it, it's secondary

735
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: for women to get the care that they need. Yes,

736
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: around the world, that's a whole different conversation. And recognizing

737
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: that you, again as any said, that you actually are

738
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: worth that, that you are worth the time to run

739
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: away from your family for two hours. Maybe I don't know. Yeah,

740
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: it's okay, I mean I think for me, and this

741
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: is very very general. We went to your beach house

742
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: and I have not been so excited. And it was

743
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: like six seven, eight months after quarantine began.

744
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we were I think we went. It was

745
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: Dragon Gone weekend, Labor day.

746
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: And it started in Mark and I hadn't left and

747
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: I was losing it. I was losing it. And just

748
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 2: being able to be in a car to drive somewhere

749
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: was such a phenomenon at that moment that the minute

750
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: we got in the car and we started driving and

751
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 2: like realizing we were on a trip, pulled something from

752
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: me that was it so like to me, like stuff

753
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: like that, being like, oh wow, being so scared, and

754
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: you and I talked about this. We are so scared,

755
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: especially as podcasters, as people who are sort of you know, seen.

756
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: I guess this is the best way to put it.

757
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: We're so scared of saying the wrong things, or doing

758
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 2: the wrong things, or being hypocritical and being really cautious

759
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: because of course we don't want to talk about that

760
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: was a privilege. Had I not known you, I would

761
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: have never been able to do that and felt like

762
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: a privilege. It was amazing and doing things like that

763
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: is a privilege. But that's the other part to that

764
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: is like I don't feel like I can because I

765
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: know other people are suffering, So why am I allowed

766
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: to do this? And that again that builds onto that

767
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: self worth and again being a basically the whole different level.

768
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 2: You should be able to have that, and it's absurd

769
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: that we don't. Being able to be on a living wage,

770
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: you should be able to have that, especially when you

771
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: work your ass off trying to provide for your people

772
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 2: that you love. End of story. But things like that

773
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: like the traveling that I got to do for the

774
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 2: first time in eight months was such a glorious moment

775
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: that felt like self care, but felt so guilty that

776
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 2: I was doing it.

777
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

778
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've thought about that a lot lately because I

779
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: think a lot of women do this, a lot of

780
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: marginalized people do this. But I do that a lot

781
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, is it worth I don't have

782
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: it as bad as this person or whoever, so I'm

783
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: just being a big baby.

784
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is like because I don't have it

785
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: as bad.

786
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: And I think that is a part of what holds

787
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: people back when it comes to self care, is that

788
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: guilt around that whole idea. And when we're talking about

789
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: social media as part of this, it has been a

790
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: great space for normalizing self care. But if it becomes

791
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: competitive or performative, that's defeating the purpose, and a lot

792
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: of self care can get caught up in reinforcing tropes

793
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: around beauty and weights that. Going back to what I

794
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: was saying at the beginning about pinterest, to me, that's

795
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: what a lot of pinterest is is people kind of

796
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: showing off that there because they eat this, and they

797
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: exercise this much, these this is how they look in

798
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: these the clothes they can wear, and that can be healthy.

799
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: But if you turn it, it's so like a fine line.

800
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: And that's a problem I have a lot is I

801
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: turn it into something that is not self care anymore.

802
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: It is like a competiti And speaking of that, I

803
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: think there's a hijacking of self care to you in

804
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: this self help productivity workspace that's basically selling it as

805
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: a tool to do more work, which it does help productivity,

806
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: but it's not about that. It's not about doing more

807
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: work necessarily, and it's not some magical way to become

808
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: a CEO.

809
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: If you're like good, if you really crush it when

810
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: it comes to self care, it's not that's not what one.

811
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: Look. I admire and respect the people who are on

812
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: here talking about their fitness and getting these workouts and

813
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: then having the whole why aren't you doing it? That

814
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: makes me want to throw my phone across the room.

815
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: Ye tell you that? Like I see that constantly, and

816
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: I want to be like because I'm depressed and my

817
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 2: anxiety is really high, and all I really want to

818
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: do is curl up in a fetal position under my

819
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 2: blanket while my dog sits on top of me until

820
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: I suffocate. I mean, that's some of the level that

821
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 2: I'm at. But the thing is, if it's for them,

822
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: that's great. But to turn it around and accuse people

823
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: of not being able to hit your mark is really damaging.

824
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: And when you do that as a way of getting

825
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: likes or getting promotions, what promotional benefits from other companies,

826
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 2: that's damaging. And what you're doing is causing more harm

827
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 2: than anything else. And I say you, I'm just saying

828
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: the general in all aspects, because let's be honest, this year,

829
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: it's been a year of collective trauma. I want to

830
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: talk about this later. It could be a whole other

831
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: episode about women in collective trauma, especially in the marginalized communities,

832
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk a little more about the

833
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: intersections of this. But the level of trauma that has

834
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: happened this year, the fact that anyone got up, congratulations.

835
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: There's a debate about drinking water. It's absurd. If you're

836
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 2: doing it, wonderful. If you're not, you do you be healthy? Though?

837
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: Be healthy? And again, we have to recognize how self

838
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 2: care looks different for people of color and for the

839
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: LGBTQ community or any other marginalized groups. Let's be honest. Politically,

840
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: what we've been seeing is horrible, and I think we're

841
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 2: coming through the upswing, but the constant back and forth,

842
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: the constant back and forth, it's traumatizing. I maybe it's

843
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: because I've been so focused and been so isolated that

844
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: that's all I focus on. But these past few years

845
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: feel disgusting, whether it's I've lost friendships, I've lost family members,

846
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: I've lost trust in people, like there's so much that

847
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: we have to talk about, and we have talked about,

848
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: and we continue to talk about, and then we put

849
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: on people's shoulders to explain it's been a hard damn

850
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: year period and self care may just mean I'm not

851
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: going to talk to you today, i might not see

852
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 2: my family for a year. I'm okay. Things like that

853
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: have happened. And then the amount of death and the

854
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 2: amount of heartache that we've seen on a consistent basis,

855
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: and maybe it's just because we're seeing it for the

856
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: first time, also because our administration allowed millions of people

857
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: to die. All of those things way, So when we

858
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: talk about what's happening in the marginalized communities, when we

859
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: look at all of the politics that are happening even

860
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 2: today with the trans community, LGBTQ plus community. I just

861
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: saw a new law allowing for organizations to discriminate against

862
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community to allowing them to be part

863
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: of the group. I see consistently the bills that are

864
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: trying to block that community from adopting, which I have

865
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 2: a lot of feels on. We know this, We consistently

866
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: see the bills, the injustice that has happened on all

867
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: of the levels, MATS shootings, just this freaking week alone

868
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 2: has made me want to vomit. This last month has

869
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 2: been awful. So when we talk about self care, it

870
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 2: may just very well be I don't want to talk

871
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: to anyone in the story and that's okay. So to

872
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 2: try to place this whole line of buy this, do this,

873
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: be this is damaging in itself. I'm done.

874
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

875
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: And when I was researching this, there are a lot

876
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: of resources out there for that are for specific marginalized groups.

877
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 3: And what I was reading from people who.

878
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: Were writing about it, and they were talking about the

879
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: value of community support and camaraderie and finding those things.

880
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: So certainly, if you need those resources there out there

881
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: also much bigger conversation, but the whole mass shooting thing,

882
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: like some of that is what we're talking about here

883
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: with men can't get mental health care.

884
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: Much bigger conversation.

885
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: We also need to talk about accessive and cost here

886
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: because of course, when companies got involved, prices went up

887
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: for things items that have been in this self care space,

888
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: like like skincare, beauty. It can get really pricey, especially

889
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: when celebrities and influencers get involved, which more and more

890
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: male celebrities have been getting involved in this. I noticed

891
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: not an option for everyone and may turn people off

892
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: who otherwise would participate in self care. That's what they're seeing,

893
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: that's what they think it is. Again, beauty does not

894
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: a self care make this in a lot of things,

895
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: but for a lot of people that is I have

896
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: friends or that is their thing of like doing the

897
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: facial and just relaxing, or if we talk about physical

898
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: activities that aren't possible or comfortable for everyone for variety

899
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: of reasons. Just keeping those things in mind too of

900
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: accessibility and yeah, of course there are predatory products out

901
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 1: there marketed as self care that are like guaranteed to.

902
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: Get rid of your eyebags or whatever. It is. That's not.

903
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: My friend calls them baggies.

904
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: I bag these, I bag ease. I love it. Yeah.

905
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: And for those who have been able to be successful

906
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: and maybe publish a book or do some things we kindle, friendships, whatever,

907
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: that's phenomenal too, and you should be allowed to celebrate.

908
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: That's the other part again, is that guilt level. Don't

909
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: point out people and say you're not doing this like me.

910
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: Don't do that. Let's just say that, but celebrate what

911
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: you have been able to do. Celebrate the good things

912
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: in your life. I mean, I do celebrate the fact

913
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: that I am able to do this instead of being

914
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 2: in the world, which for my old co workers who

915
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 2: are continually seeing trauma on the outside and then continually

916
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: dealing with trauma in their workspace, that's a lot. Yeah,

917
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 2: and I'm very grateful that I am in this space

918
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 2: where I can process it in a different manner now.

919
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: But it's not lost on me that people are doing

920
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: these jobs and people are doing these things. People are

921
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: doing this work, and it's important that we allow for

922
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: them to celebrate the things that they have been able

923
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: to accomplish. I just remember one of my biggest things

924
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: being in that field just constantly thing I just need

925
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 2: one small victory, like crying about it and how big

926
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: of a deal it was, whether it's to know that

927
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: I helped a kid rehabilitate and get off of probation

928
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: in general, like I was able to be like, we're

929
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: going to work this out, We're going to do these

930
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: things together in the story or hooking them up and

931
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: able to get them an internship, to be able to

932
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: make money like stuff like that is phenomenal. We're not

933
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: going to talk about the incarceration system, which I have

934
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 2: a lot of guilt about in general. But the thing

935
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: is there's a collective amount of trauma that is happening,

936
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: and we need to be able to celebrate the things

937
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: that can be celebrated and for those who have you know,

938
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: children in their lives who were able to have babies

939
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: and are living in a place of health, and that

940
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: those who are seeing someone for the first time, that's

941
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: that's wonderful. Congratulations and we celeb write.

942
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: That with you. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I'm glad you

943
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: said that, because I do.

944
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: I think that is another aspect of this as people

945
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: feel like they can't share happy things right now. I

946
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: know I don't That's why I'm like not on a

947
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: social media hardly ever anymore. I don't want to post

948
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: some of that stuff, but I can't post it the

949
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: world is on fire.

950
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: I like self deprecating stuff, like when I tripped and

951
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: trusted my ankle in a living room. But for those

952
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: who are asking, how, yeah, how do we even go

953
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: down this road? Or should we even go down this route?

954
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this and thinking I need

955
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: to start doing this, you don't have to. But if

956
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: you want to, or maybe like I need to do better,

957
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: how to go about that? Again, you're better stepping from

958
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: everybody else's just be healthy. So here are some tipsy.

959
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: Choose an activity or activities you enjoy or that relaxes you,

960
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: such as playing fiends and trying to beat your coworkers

961
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: like Lauren who has yet to reply to my banter.

962
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: If that makes you feel better, then do it.

963
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

964
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 4: So yeah, get some activities that you like that are healthy,

965
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 4: and then narrow it down to one at first that

966
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 4: you want to start putting into your daily routine.

967
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 1: So here we're talking more about incorporating it more regularly

968
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: as opposed to that sort of one time event. Then yeah,

969
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: try implementing it every day for a week. After that

970
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: week's done, think about how you feel about it, repeat

971
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: with another activity, switch out activities, or just reflect on

972
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: how you want to go about it and if it

973
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: worked for you and why it did or didn't work

974
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: for you, and if.

975
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: It didn't, it's okay, it is moving on.

976
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 3: It is okay.

977
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: And speaking of I did want to briefly talk about

978
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: this because I, like I said, I'm really bad at it.

979
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: And I was working on this outline the day after

980
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 1: I got my second dose of the vaccine and I

981
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: ended up getting having a pretty severe reaction, i will say.

982
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 3: And I was.

983
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: In bed and I was shaking so hard that the

984
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: bed frame was rattling, and I was sweating.

985
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: It looked like I had gone swimming, and I.

986
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: Was so cold, and I felt so bad, and I

987
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: was typing like women.

988
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: Made to do better itself, not that, but essentially, like

989
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: how can women be better at self care?

990
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: And then I was working away and Lauren, my coworker

991
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: and friend, she texted me and said stop working. And

992
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: then she sent an email out to like everybody I

993
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: was supposed to work with that day to record and

994
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: she said, we're not recording.

995
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 3: She's good, and then you showed up. You were so

996
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 3: kind and you bought me fun. But I felt guilty

997
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: about it because I was.

998
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, I I know you wouldn't let me

999
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 2: like I'm doing it. Damn it fine, I'm fine. This

1000
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: is part of myself here. We've talked about this before,

1001
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 2: like for people like me, I love doing things like that,

1002
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: so I have to do it. So let me do it,

1003
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 2: Let me do it.

1004
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: I kept being like no, no, no, And then I did

1005
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: have the thing where I was like so proud of myself,

1006
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: which is very unhealthy because I was like, wow, I.

1007
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 3: Feel terrible, but look at how much work I'm doing.

1008
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did nothing. I did nothing. We purposely

1009
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 2: didn't record. We changed the date, and I was like,

1010
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 2: you know what, this is going to be a rough

1011
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: one for I don't know, maybe it could be a

1012
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: rough one. I've seen stories, and of course my reaction

1013
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 2: because we ended up getting our shots at the same day,

1014
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: they were very different, like I was nowhere year as

1015
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: bad as you were. We had. I had this little

1016
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: bit of chills and enough fever, but that was quickly gone.

1017
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: But I was like, I'm just going to check in

1018
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: on her, make sure she's alive. But we're not talking

1019
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 2: about work. And I purposely did not ask about work.

1020
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 2: And we did bring some noodles for you, because you know,

1021
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: this is all about getting together. And that's the other

1022
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 2: part to this is you have to recognize when your

1023
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: body is telling you something. Yeah, because it's telling you

1024
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 2: something for a reason. Yeah, And that was, hey, stop it,

1025
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: go to bed, damn it.

1026
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 3: It's surprisingly difficult to do that.

1027
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: I feel like as women, we are especially I can

1028
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: just speak. In my case, I have distanced myself so

1029
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: much from my body that it's I can't basic things

1030
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: like sleepy.

1031
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 3: And hunger, and I don't. I'm working on that. Yeah.

1032
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: I on the other hand, I do recognize it, but

1033
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: it's according to what I have to do. And if

1034
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: there's just like I felt guilty because I have a

1035
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: feeling you were working and so I didn't know what

1036
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: else to do. But I'm like, yeah, but I'm sleepy

1037
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: and i'm tired, and we can do this later. If

1038
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 2: I do things, I don't want to just laid back out.

1039
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm done, I'm good. I will do that.

1040
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: But there are days that I'm like I have to

1041
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: do more. If it came down to helping someone else,

1042
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: then yeah, I will do it. But if it comes

1043
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: down to it's just me, I'm not gonna die.

1044
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,959
Speaker 3: So you and I clearly have work to do as well.

1045
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: Yes, listeners, I have better at it, and like the

1046
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: fan FicT, writing fan fiction is something I do hiking

1047
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: whenever we can go, when I can go back out

1048
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: comfortably because I know I could have always, but I

1049
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: was never comfortable. That is a big one for me.

1050
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: So it is something that I have been mindful of

1051
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: and have been trying to be better at.

1052
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 3: But yes, long ways ago.

1053
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: Still well, listeners, we would love to hear about your

1054
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: self care.

1055
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 3: What do you do or are you any good at it?

1056
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 3: Are you terrible at it?

1057
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: You can email us our emails Stuff Media mom Stuff

1058
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter

1059
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've

1060
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina.

1061
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff

1062
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: I Never Told You. Propection I Heart Radio for more

1063
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visits I Heartrado app Apple podcasts,

1064
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: or I may listen to your favorite show speaking

1065
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah,