WEBVTT - The Joy of Single Life 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.920 Me your Girl Daniel Moody pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.119 I'm very excited to be taking some much needed time 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.400 off from all of my shows. As you know, I 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.160 host three of them, with WOKF being my flagship show. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.040 And I love this show because I get to bring 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:28.080 on guests that may not quite squarely fit inside of politics, 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:33.600 but nonetheless we're able to have conversations that connect politics 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.839 to our daily lives, to our emotions. And I think 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.519 that that is the thing when people say ridiculous comments 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.320 like you know, I'm not into politics, or you know 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.240 I'm not about politics, like I'm not a political person, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.519 it's just like are you breathing? Are you paying attention? 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.320 Because everything in your life is actually controlled by politics 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.560 and by policy, so it would behoove you to pay 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.040 attention to the ways in which you are either treated 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.880 fairly or unfaie justly or unjustly based on those things. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:09.319 And so this conversation fantastic which is coming up with 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:14.400 doctor Bella de Paulo. She is the author of the 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:19.040 book Single at Heart, The Power Freedom and Heart Feeling 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.399 Joy of Single life, and she is a leading expert 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:29.360 on single life and has given a TED talk that 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.480 has garnered over one and a half million views, and 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.200 she speaks to millions of people. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.760 Across the globe who are. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.039 Drawn to the single life, and she has been doing 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.200 case studies on this work for quite some time. In 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.720 my conversation with doctor Depollo, I was shocked to learn 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.040 some things about the way that single people are kind 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.440 of treated and discarded in this country. And you know, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.480 she opened my eyes to so many things. But also 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.320 we had a conversation steeped in the politics of single 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.400 theom right, the decision that a lot of people are 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.400 making younger generations. That one it isn't just about the 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.000 fact that they can't afford to get married, or afford 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.400 to leave home or any of those things. Not looking 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.519 at the choice to be singled through an economic lens, 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.160 but actually looking at it through a political one. And 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.400 there are a lot of great reasons why people are 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.000 choosing not to get married, or maybe get married later 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.480 in life, or stay single, as doctor Depollo has And 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.760 so it was a really interesting conversation about shifting again 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.520 expanding and shifting our perspective to you know, move beyond 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.880 what we've been force fed as like the natural way, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.880 you know, the natural course of life. You're a single, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.480 you go to school or you go into a vocation, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.720 you meet somebody young, you get married, you start having kids, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.320 you buy a car, you buy a house, you go 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.160 into debt. You know, you raise those kids to the 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.480 best of your ability, and the cycle continues, and there's 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.880 a lot of disruption, and I think that that is why, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.000 you know, and we talk about this in this episode, 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:24.400 why the right wing is pushing their forced labor agenda. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.640 Why they are you know, terrified of critical thinking because 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.840 guess what that provides freedom and liberation to think and 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.400 do and move and act differently, and that's absolutely what 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.200 they don't want. So we get into a really incredible 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.680 conversation that I hope all of you will enjoy. And 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.560 whether you were married, you were single, you were divorced 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:54.040 or widowed, I think that this is an extraordinary conversation 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:59.720 about the possibility of what it means to center joy 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:03.040 in our lives in a different way. Again, her book 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.160 is Single at Heart, The Power Freedom and Heart Feeling 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.960 Joy of single Life. Coming up next, my conversation with 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.160 social scientist doctor Bella de Polo. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:19.640 Folks, I am. 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.919 Very excited to welcome to wok F Daily for the 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.640 very first time doctor Bella de Polo, who is the 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.880 author of the book Single at Heart, The Power Freedom 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:36.320 and Heart Feeling Joy of Single Life and is a 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:42.080 renowned speaker whose ted talk has garnered now one point 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:47.240 seven million views in talking about what it means to 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.440 be single. The I guess the I like to say 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:58.919 the lies we've all been told about the benefits of marriage. So, uh, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.640 doctor Depaula, Well, I just want to start off with 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.560 thank you in all honesty. You know, folks that listen 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:14.240 to this show know I was married for god fifteen 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:20.760 years and I'm divorced now and I'm also queer. But 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.440 when I was, you know, reading and listening to your talk, 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:27.960 you know, I was one of those people that was 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.160 on the front line fighting for marriage equality. Why because 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.320 of the fifteen hundred plus rights that you get through 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.280 the federal government if in fact you are married, and 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:43.279 so marriage equality and fighting for marriage for me was 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.640 so important and is still important because I feel that 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.320 you should have the right to love and marry who 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.400 you choose. But when you started to get into the 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.840 economics of it and the politics of it. You realize 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.000 just how advantaged married people were versus single, which is 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.800 why the fight for marriage equality wasn't just about the 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:08.480 recognition of same sex relationships. It was also about government recognition. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.880 Our friends and families if you were, you know, privileged enough, 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.720 had already accepted you, loved you and appreciated you, and 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.919 so did your God. But the government, however, did not. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.560 So I just want to talk about, you know, the thoughts, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:29.440 your thoughts initially around kind of the politics around being 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.120 married versus single in the United States. 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.400 Yes, thank you for having me on and thank you 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.000 for that question. Those benefits and protections that you mentioned, 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:46.919 so many of them, they are available only to people 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.120 who are legally married. So of course that was one 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.880 of the motivations for all the effort that went into 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.160 the legalization of same sex marriage. But where does that 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:04.000 leave single people of any orientation or identity or status. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:09.120 They are still left out of all those benefits and protections. 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.080 And I think that no one should have to get 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:19.760 married to be treated as a full fledged citizen. And 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.360 you know, these benefits are they're really big things. So 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:29.640 thakful I as a lifelong single person, no kids. I 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.200 might pay into Social Security just like a colleague who 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.040 is married and works the same number of hours the 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.920 same number of years, maybe I even do better work. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.800 But when my colleague dies, their benefits go to their spouse, and, 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.800 under certain conditions, to a whole series of ex spouses, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.679 whereas mine go back into the system. I can't give 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.240 my social Security that I contributed to every year my 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.360 working life to anyone, and no one could give their 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:04.160 benefits to me. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:05.680 Wow. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.520 See, so here we go with the bells. I did 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.520 not know that I had. I had no idea that 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.560 you weren't able to dictate. Like when people pass away 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.679 and you have money in a bank account, it goes 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.040 to your next of kin. My assumption was that the 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.440 same was true for your social security. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:29.000 No. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:35.839 Wow, okay, okay, So you know, talk to me about 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:41.079 your decision and wasn't an active decision to be single, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:43.880 to be a lifelong single person. 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.920 Well, you know, I never wanted to be married, but 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.800 it seemed like everyone else did, or they at least 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.320 wanted to be romantically coupled, and so for a long 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.560 time I thought, well, wanting to get married or to coupled, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.800 it was kind of like getting bitten by a bug, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.959 and it was a little slow, and I just hadn't 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.640 gotten bitten yet and I don't have like one clear 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.320 aha moment. But over time, I think really in my 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.880 thirties or late thirties, I started realizing, so, you are 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.240 never going to be bitten, You're going to always love 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:27.560 being single. And once I realized that, it was really 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.439 transformative because then I wasn't holding back in any way, 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.400 thinking well, maybe my life is going to change. So 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.120 I bought a house and I decided to, you know, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.960 do what I wanted with my career and where I lived, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:47.959 and it was just joyful. And I also invested in 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.439 becoming a scholar of single life. I used to have 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:57.079 expertise in the psychology of lying and detecting lives, which is. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.840 Which would also be elpful nowadays, right. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually published something in the Washington 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.240 Post about Trump's lies very early on, which was wildly 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.640 successful or you know, popular, and of course invited lots 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.960 of hate mail from from the MAGA types, so that 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.080 was interesting. But I mean my work on singles I'm 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.400 just passionate about. So it's it's different. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.600 You know, you were in a different generation right where 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.440 I think that and as am I I think that, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.880 you know, older generations were all about get married, have 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.880 a baby, get the house, get the quote unquote American dream. Yes, 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:51.840 my parents are I guess boomers. I guess would be yeah, 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.040 they're they're boomers, so they're that. It is it is 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.320 the same generation. It is you know dictated to you. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.680 There was never you know, you had a couple of 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.720 shows that I can think of that celebrated single women. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.120 You know or you know, Kate Nelly were the divorce 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.719 best friends that lived together in the eighties and were 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.439 raising their kids together. But there were no reinforcements truly 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:22.000 about a single dum being an opportunity. It was always like, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.120 if you're single, there's something wrong, and I'll say there's 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.720 something wrong with you. But if you are divorced, it's like, oh, 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.520 you were chosen at one time, right and some but 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.720 something went something went awry, so you're still okay. There's 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.520 like this skeptic like, why do you like I think 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.520 that it has changed over generations, the skepticism towards people 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.559 who choose single dumb, But what do you make of 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:53.240 how we progressed in this idea or evolved over generations. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.760 Yeah, you know what, I was born in nineteen fifty three. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:03.360 I'm seventy and nineteen fifty was the year of when 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.520 people got married in the US at the youngest rate, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.480 at youngest age going all the way back to eighteen ninety, 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.360 so women were on the average twenty years old when 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.520 they first married, which means just crazy for them, were 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.600 teenagers crazy. Yeah, so that's a whole different thing. And 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.880 of course the divorce rate was low. So back then 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.800 it was like divorce was oh, she's a divorce and 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.240 it was considered shameful. Now it's like you said, you know, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.000 if your divorced, well, at least somebody loved you once. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:41.400 I mean, that's you know what I'm saying. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.679 That's like, that's the psychology around it, right. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.120 Right, And what I'm trying to do is reverse or 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.840 challenge all of that. And I'm trying to say that 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.560 if you're single, especially if you're single at heart. And 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.720 let me just take a second and say what I 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.680 mean that people who are single at heart want to 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.720 be single, They want to stay single. They are flourishing 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:13.040 and happy because they are single, not in spite of it. 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:19.320 And so they are living their most meaningful, fulfilling, psychologically 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:24.440 rich and authentic lives. Okay, where was I before when. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.040 I'm talking about the generation all shift about being single. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.440 Yeah, So what I'm trying to say is that for 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.640 people who are single at heart, single life isn't limiting. 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:43.040 It throws the doors wide open to a big, bigger, 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.800 more expansive life. So for single people, people who are 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.040 single at heart, you know, love can mean romantic love, 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.800 but it's not stuck in that box. I mean love 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.239 can mean the love of your close friends, your mentors, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:01.040 your pets, spiritual figures. It's just a big, wide, open, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.760 open armed concept. Same thing for family. Family can mean 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.280 the way we usually think of it, but it also 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:13.400 can mean the people you choose as family. Intimacy can 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:18.319 mean sexual intimacy, but it can also mean emotional intimacy. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.480 And people who are single at heart. 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:28.520 Have skills and attitudes that serve them well and that 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:35.920 are less often honed by people who are inconventional coupled relationships. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:40.400 So, for example, one of the stereotypes about single people 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.600 is that they're lonely. Well, in fact, people who are 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:51.040 single at heart love their solitude. They want time to themselves. It, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.520 you know, it is something that helps them flourish and 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.000 relax and be more creative and more insightful about themselves. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:07.560 And if you are comfortable with time to yourself, that's 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:13.800 a great protection against loneliness. So rather than being especially 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:21.040 susceptible to it, we are especially protected against it. And 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:22.920 that's not that we all want to spend all of 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.680 our time alone. And I like to say that people 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.240 who are single, instead of having the one, we have 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.400 the ones. So we tend to the people in our 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.920 lives who matter whoever they may be, without needing to 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.200 worry that a romantic partner wants all that time and 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.440 attention to themselves. 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.240 Fair you know, in your Ted talk they did back 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.680 in twenty seventeen that has now garnered over a million views, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.800 you put up a chart, and you'd put up a 0:15:54.880 --> 0:16:02.320 chart where you showed what the perception was from college students, right, yeah, Yeah, 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:07.000 the perception that college students had on what they believed 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.200 their happiness level would be if they remain single versus married, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.520 And you put up their idea first on both levels 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.840 and then the reality. Yeah, and I thought it was 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.120 really funny and I'll you know, I want you to 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.880 tell the listeners like what the difference was, because I 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.680 thought that it was really telling, and I want to 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.520 I want to ask you a question after you do 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.040 you explain the charge? 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:38.720 Yeah? Sure, so my colleague Wendy Morrison, I asked, I 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.960 think it was like seven hundred and sixty college students. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.640 How happy do you think you would be if you 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.560 got married? And how happy do you think you would 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.360 be if you stayed single? Well, the marriage, they rated 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.520 themselves about as happy as they. 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:53.760 Could pressibly be. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.920 And then for the sing if they stayed single, they 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.800 thought they would be miserable. Well, there are studies of 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.960 tens of thousands of people who are followed for more 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.480 than twenty years over the course of their adult life, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.000 so we know who stays sing, who stays happy or not, 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.359 and it turns out that they're very The lines of 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.840 the degrees of happiness are very similar. In fact, if 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.240 you follow people who get married and see how happy 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.919 they were before and after, well, as they approach the 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.560 time of their wedding, you know, the early years they're marriage, 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.880 they get a little bit happier. You know, they get 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.840 this big party and it's all so exciting and then 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.560 they go back to being as happier, as unhappy as 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.920 they were before they got married, and that brief honeymoon 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.400 effect we like to call it, where they know they're 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.960 on their honeymoon and they're really happy. That the only 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.919 people who get that are the people who get married 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:01.400 and stay married. They are average. The people who are 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:06.400 headed toward divorce are already getting a little less happy 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:11.240 as the day of their wedding approaches, rather than getting happier. 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.879 Yeah, I just I thought it was so interesting because again, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:22.320 your perception versus like the reality is all skewed based 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.960 on how you're socialized, right, the kind of films your 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.560 family like, your schooling, your friends, your colleagues, all of 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:36.200 these things that contribute to your perception of what your 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.359 happiness could possibly be like. If we didn't have an 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.200 entire industry, right, and this goes back to the politics 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.119 and the capitalism and greed and the wedding industrial complex 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.560 and all of these things. If we didn't have an 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.919 entire system that was driving people towards this way and 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.440 said you could be happy regardless, and if you had 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.880 the same you know, you saw two sides of the same. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.399 I don't think that their perception would have been so 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.080 down in the dumps. I think it would be like, well, 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.040 I could be equally happy being single and fulfilled, and 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.639 I could also be fulfilled and happy if I got married. 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.720 And so I find it really interesting, and I wonder 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.359 the follow up question that I have for you is 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:29.360 reports are saying that Generation Z right and millennials who 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.159 have just about turn forty and then Generation Z coming 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.200 behind them, are less likely to get married than their 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:38.720 parents and their grandparents. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:39.000 Work. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.359 Now, the lens that people are reporting this through is 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.879 largely through economics. They don't have the money to get married. 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.240 They don't have the money to leave home and start 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.600 off lives like the boomers did at twenty getting married, 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.960 and homes are cheap and cars are cheap and all 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.679 of these things. What do you make of it? 0:19:57.760 --> 0:19:58.000 Though? 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:03.720 Through your lens? Is it that they have seen divorces? 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:08.480 You know, their grandparents divorced, their parents divorced, Like, what 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.320 do you make of the idea that we may have 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.280 you know, I'll talk about the other politics around it. 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.080 A generation of young folks who decide that like, yeah, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:21.040 this is not it for. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:25.040 Me, right, thank you for asking that there are so 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.879 many articles and opinion pieces about this, and it's all 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.399 about the barriers. No, they don't have the money, or 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.719 maybe they're running away from it because because their parents 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.400 were divorced or all that kind of stuff. What's missing 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:50.440 is the attraction of single life, the powerful rewards and 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:56.320 freedom and heart feeling joy of single life. And one 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.240 thing that's happening going back to what I said earlier 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.320 about the age at which people first marry, so now 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.280 it's up to about thirty for men and twenty eight 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.040 for women. So that means that for men, half of 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.879 all men who marry for the first time are older 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:20.200 than thirty. Well, they've had a whole decade almost that 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.920 men in past generations did not have to spend time 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.879 being single, and maybe they, you know, they get a 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:33.239 taste of the freedom of it, the joy of it, 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:38.320 the power of it. And so for me, what I 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:43.240 like to look at are the are what's positive about 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:48.600 single life. And that's a whole different frame than the 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.840 way everything is framed now, which is everyone wants to 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.679 get married, and if they don't, what's standing in their way? 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.199 And I want to change that and say, you know, 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:06.440 some people lived their best, most fulfilling meaningful and psychologically 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.600 rich lives by being single, and if they got me, 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.960 the risk to them is not what they would lose 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.879 if they never put a romantic partner at the center 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:23.000 of their lives, but what they would lose if they did. 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.840 See And that's that's the perspective that I think that 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.240 people are truly afraid to delve into. And I'll take 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.280 a stab and a spin at what I believe the 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.360 politics of this moment that we are seeing and how 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.960 it plays out in what in single, dumb versus married. 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:49.159 You know, you can look at the economic trajectory of 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.000 women after Roe v. 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:51.399 Wade. 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:53.480 Right, the ability to. 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:59.120 Go into the workplace, the ability to decide when and 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.920 if and how you wanted to have a family gave 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:03.760 women the independence that they did. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:05.600 Not have pre ro v. Wade. 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:11.320 Well, when conservatives are now looking at this and they're 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.640 not thinking to themselves, well, how do we make marriage 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.240 and couple them and all of these things more attractive 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.840 so people want to procreate, They're like, no, we'll just 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.360 take the right away altogether, and we'll force it right. 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.040 We'll force you into these situations that then require women 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.000 to stay home, which we saw during COVID right where 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.199 people had to quit their jobs because they had to 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.320 care for their kids. And it's like this kind of 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:41.639 dragging people back to this pre Roe v. Wade error, 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:46.280 which again was never about the celebration of independence. It 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.600 was about restriction, right. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.920 Yes, And I think what you're saying is true of 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.520 lots of other things that are going on politically, And 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:01.000 I think that what when you say, have this very way, 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:06.200 but also you have all this celebration of marriage and 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:08.800 two parent families. There was a book that came out 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:12.439 recently about you know, two parent families are better. You know, 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.760 psuchodop get used to it. And I think a lot 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:21.520 of this it's it's not because we're all so secure 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:26.000 about the place of marriage in our lives. It's because 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:30.720 we're so insecure. And I think what's happening is that 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:35.600 single people have been making progress clearly in their numbers, 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:40.040 and that is threatening to people who don't want that 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:44.240 to happen. And so what we're seeing now is backlash. 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.879 It's just like Susan Faludi famously described in her book 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:53.520 called Backlash, that when women started making progress, that's when 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:58.000 Dyro was all is pushback, and you know, no, women 0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:01.480 can't can't be exact great and they have to stay 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:03.679 in their place. And don't you want to be a 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:06.760 nice housewife and not have ambitions? 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:10.720 And I mean, and I think that what's interesting here 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:15.840 too is that over the past, you know, five decades, 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.320 you know, during the passage of Roll V. Wade, the 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.440 independence of women, women being able to secure their own 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:26.240 financial future. Because what people forget is that women weren't 0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:29.840 able to get credit cards until nineteen seventy four without 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.879 the signage of their fathers or their husbands, right, so 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.000 there was no financial freedom. And I think that when 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:43.639 we look at how now women, people of color, those 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:48.960 that were marginalized can actually flourish without having to bind 0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:52.640 themselves to another person to keep their heads above water. 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.280 And you see these options, I think that that's what's 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.679 driving the numbers. It isn't about the obstacles to marriage. 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.119 But it's just like, wait, you mean that, I don't 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.720 have to have kids, I don't have to be married. 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:10.960 I can have I can be economically stable, I can 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:13.520 do these things. I can travel, I can you know, 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:18.879 take on second, third, fourth careers because I'm not I'm 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.600 not anchored to said person. Said thing or what have you. Like, 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:26.560 My life isn't about compromising so much with another person. 0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:29.560 It's about what do I want right and and like 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:34.880 you said, centering yourself as opposed to centering a spouse right. 0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:37.040 And living authentically because of it. 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:48.280 Yeah, final question for you, what are your hopes for 0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.639 single people in the future? Right like reading your book, 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:55.560