Speaker 1: Welcome to Chopping It Up.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Michael Halen, senior restaurant and food service
Speaker 2: analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence Listeners. You're in for a treat today.
Speaker 2: I'll be interviewing Chaos Strategists managing partner and co founder
Speaker 2: of Results Through Strategy, Fred Lafranc. Thanks for doing this, Fred.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: So, in my opinion, chaos Strategist is the best title
Speaker 2: in the business. You know, how'd you come up with
Speaker 2: your title and how does it tie into what you
Speaker 2: and your team do at Results through Strategy.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's an interesting question. I years ago I met
Speaker 3: a woman based in New York at a conscious capitalism
Speaker 3: event and she called herself a performance strategist. So I
Speaker 3: got to talking to her and she described the me
Speaker 3: this concept of a zone of genius where you are
Speaker 3: at your best. It's unique skills that nobody else has.
Speaker 3: And I spent time with her. She went through a
Speaker 3: bunch of question mires as and on emails of people
Speaker 3: asking for feedback about who I am, how I work,
Speaker 3: what do I do, what's good, what's bad? And at
Speaker 3: the end of it, she said, Fred, you bring order
Speaker 3: to disorder and you go from surviving to thriving, and
Speaker 3: you are basically a chaos strategist. And the first I'll
Speaker 3: never forget the first time I hit the button to
Speaker 3: make that a U title. I felt so strange, but
Speaker 3: she said, hey, Fred, there's a lot of CEOs out there,
Speaker 3: but there's only one chaos strategist, and that's how the
Speaker 3: name came about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very cool and obviously fits really well with running
Speaker 2: in a restaurant for sure.
Speaker 1: So what do you find more rewarding in your work?
Speaker 1: Do you know it?
Speaker 2: Is it helping struggling mature brands turn things around or
Speaker 2: or is it helping small emerging brands supercharge their growth?
Speaker 3: Wow, that's like asking which is your favorite kid? You know,
Speaker 3: they're both fun for different reasons. We've done a lot
Speaker 3: of turnaround work and that's very satisfying because we've saved
Speaker 3: thousands of jobs. You know that that's you know, it
Speaker 3: really comes down. And I'll talk more about letterand it's
Speaker 3: all about the employees. And I spent a lot of
Speaker 3: time on employees. And you see someone that's been in
Speaker 3: a company for twenty twenty five years has no hope,
Speaker 3: low horizons, and you can help give them a methodology
Speaker 3: or performance that changes how they approach their job and
Speaker 3: it works for the benefit of the company and the
Speaker 3: lines that their needs are the company's goals. That's a
Speaker 3: great feeling. At the same time, the emerging brands are
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. They're you know, they're full of
Speaker 3: piss and vinegar. Right, nothing's nothing's impossible, and with them
Speaker 3: you got to sort of give some guardrails for growths.
Speaker 3: They don't drive off the cliff because everything's possible. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm excited, off we go. And so the enthusiasm is wonderful,
Speaker 3: but sometimes like a puppy dog jumping down on your
Speaker 3: leg while it's pin on your shoe. So they have
Speaker 3: different energy and different vibes, you know. So it's a
Speaker 3: it's a different approach it's been, but they're both. They're
Speaker 3: both really really exciting. And what we have found is cyclical.
Speaker 3: Right you go through the era where all of a
Speaker 3: sudden sales get you know, stunted people who's relevant. So
Speaker 3: get it to that downgrade and people say, oh, I
Speaker 3: need some relevance again, and then you get the ones
Speaker 3: that you know, the new and emerging brands are a
Speaker 3: lot of fun in doing it. And there's different generations.
Speaker 3: You know, the older brands are kind of boomer brands,
Speaker 3: and the newer brands and millennial brands, so it's a
Speaker 3: whole different thing. What I find most interesting, to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, is that the founders are very willing
Speaker 3: to ask for help, where the older CEOs aren't. It's
Speaker 3: like they feel they have to have all the answers,
Speaker 3: Like they go, hey, I'm the president, so I should
Speaker 3: know what to do and everything. And I was a
Speaker 3: president too, you know what, I didn't know everything. And
Speaker 3: the advantage that we bring is that we bring an
Speaker 3: outside perspective and we ask the kind of questions that
Speaker 3: sometimes they don't want to ask internally. And it's very
Speaker 3: funny when we come back with conclusions, they're like, my god,
Speaker 3: where did you get this information? And I go, you,
Speaker 3: it was there, but no one ever asked. I'd say.
Speaker 3: What we bring is the thirty percent we bring to
Speaker 3: the seventy percent they offer is an outside perspective and
Speaker 3: said earlier, a new way of looking at it, and
Speaker 3: maybe an opportunity to sort of not get caught up
Speaker 3: in the reality look at the whirlwind of everyday life
Speaker 3: in this business is crazy you know, I blame no
Speaker 3: one for that, and so it's hard to step out
Speaker 3: of that and really try and be really clear headed
Speaker 3: and clear mind and go oh okay, now I see
Speaker 3: a pad And that's really what we try and do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cool and humility is definitely a good asset to
Speaker 2: have in this business. You know, it's difficult to begin
Speaker 2: with that's constantly changing a lot of variables.
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's very important for a good leader.
Speaker 2: What's your process when you start working with a legacy
Speaker 2: brand that's kind of lost its way?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's what I've done is I have
Speaker 3: a concept that I called the tap root. And in
Speaker 3: a plant, if you ever pull up the root ball,
Speaker 3: you can strip away lots of the roots, but there's
Speaker 3: a tap root that keeps that plant alive. And it's
Speaker 3: generally the one that sprouted when it was a scene.
Speaker 3: And brands are very much that same way. So let's
Speaker 3: go back to some of those great boomer brands, you know,
Speaker 3: the Teacher Fridays or Chili's of the World, or that
Speaker 3: work with Boston Market or Friendlies and Steak and Shake,
Speaker 3: you know, old old brands. And so the question that
Speaker 3: I asked was when that brand first started. Who was
Speaker 3: the audience who came in and supported that brand and
Speaker 3: resonated with the brand? And let's just say doesn't really
Speaker 3: matter as an example, it's a thirty something. It might
Speaker 3: even be someone a little bit younger that's single. And
Speaker 3: you say, okay, what was it about the brand at
Speaker 3: that point in time nineteen eighty two, nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 3: whatever that really click with that demographic, you know, and
Speaker 3: what were the aspects of it? And then to say, god,
Speaker 3: we think we have it. Now, let's ask the question
Speaker 3: for today, if I target that age consumer, what would
Speaker 3: click with them now? And it's very, very different, you know.
Speaker 3: So you know, a millennial that's in this twenty he
Speaker 3: or she's in the twenties through thirties versus a boomer
Speaker 3: in twenties and thirties. Whole different worldview, you know. Just
Speaker 3: the biggest one is technology, of course, you know, that's
Speaker 3: been a big thing. And then other social values that
Speaker 3: have shifted. You know, there's much more concerned about the
Speaker 3: planet and health and nutrition and stuff like that. I
Speaker 3: mean boomers, you know, they were still smoking. It was
Speaker 3: a different thing. And so that so we come back
Speaker 3: with a contemporary interpretation of the brand, and you know,
Speaker 3: and a good example was Boston Market. We did that
Speaker 3: about ten years ago. You know, you walk into a
Speaker 3: Boston Market looked like a nineteen eighty school cafeteria. And
Speaker 3: what we did was take that potcase and turn it
Speaker 3: into a chef's cook top, you know, so it looked
Speaker 3: like someone had been preparing this food for hours, which
Speaker 3: is true, and presented you in a very very attractive way.
Speaker 3: And that just changed the whole relationship they had with
Speaker 3: the brand. We took the cashiers. They were wearing T
Speaker 3: shirts that said Boston a BOST. It was an old
Speaker 3: ticker symbol and they had been a public company for years,
Speaker 3: and I go, really, you're still wearing a T shirt
Speaker 3: that has the old ticker symbol and it sort of
Speaker 3: looked like you couldn't afford the O in the end
Speaker 3: because it was BOST. And we put them at that
Speaker 3: time in you know, kind of a you know, white
Speaker 3: button down shirts, some nice pan slacks and april. And
Speaker 3: instead of the guests carrying the tray with their food,
Speaker 3: like again I got nineteen eighties cafeteria, we brought it
Speaker 3: to your table, and we use melamine and real silverware
Speaker 3: to elevate the plan. So you know, so that was
Speaker 3: the kind of thing we try to do and it
Speaker 3: really worked very very well. I mean, it was an
Speaker 3: incredible turnaround, and we've done that repeatedly. The other thing,
Speaker 3: to be frank with you, and I said this earlier,
Speaker 3: it's really the employees to turn around these brands. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like, I mean, you think about it, we learned
Speaker 3: something really some hard lessons in COVID. There is no
Speaker 3: safety that in the restaurant business for employees. That's why
Speaker 3: we're so struggling with the deficit of employees because I
Speaker 3: realized I have no real benefits, no four one K,
Speaker 3: no fallback, and so what do I do. I'm going
Speaker 3: to go drive for Aneuver, or I'm going to go
Speaker 3: do something different. I'll go work for Amazon, and they
Speaker 3: have those things available in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3: Over's got flexibility of schedule, Amazon has benefits, right. Those
Speaker 3: those are things that occur and we spend a lot
Speaker 3: of time with employees and asking them what they need
Speaker 3: to do. Because if you think about it, if you've
Speaker 3: got kind of a you got a oh, I don't know,
Speaker 3: survival age because it's not they call it living wage,
Speaker 3: but it's not living wage, it's survival wage. Eighteen bucks
Speaker 3: an hour. Who can raise a family in eighteen bucks
Speaker 3: an hour? And a lot of people this is a
Speaker 3: permanent job and live well. They can't live well. They
Speaker 3: just survive. And then you say, oh, we want you
Speaker 3: to smile more, we want you to get engaged with
Speaker 3: the gas, we want you to really care. It's like,
Speaker 3: are you kidding me? How does that work? And so
Speaker 3: what we try and also do culturally is to give
Speaker 3: people hope, give them some dignity, to give them sense
Speaker 3: of pride, and let them know that they can make
Speaker 3: a difference. I ran a Burger King franchise for several years.
Speaker 3: It was one hundred and ten unit burg kinchain that
Speaker 3: was just doing terribly, and we implemented an incentive plan
Speaker 3: for all employees to make an extra fifty bucks a month,
Speaker 3: which was a day's wage because they're all minimum wage.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't just that, it was also clean the
Speaker 3: restaurants up, give resources, things like that, and that business
Speaker 3: turned around once we implemented all the changes we did.
Speaker 3: Within two three month sales had reversed and they had
Speaker 3: three years of double digit sales growth, but the employees
Speaker 3: did that. Management sets the conditions and allows them and
Speaker 3: rewards then, but really get out of the way. Let
Speaker 3: the employee be the best that they can try and
Speaker 3: be cole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in my experience, it seems like restaurant
Speaker 2: level execution, you know, correlates very strongly with sales and margins.
Speaker 2: You know, chains like Darden, Texas Roadhouse or two to
Speaker 2: come to mind, and you know, how are chains like
Speaker 2: that getting their employees to buy in?
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what Darden does. I mean Darden,
Speaker 3: they learned their lesson. There were several you may remember
Speaker 3: better because I know you follow them. There was an
Speaker 3: announcement that they made they were changing I think hours
Speaker 3: or something like that so that people would get over
Speaker 3: time or they'll get less pay or whatever, and there
Speaker 3: was like a big backlash. Guests count just dropped. It's
Speaker 3: like people said, no way, you're mistreating the employees are
Speaker 3: not coming in to see you. And they pivoted very rapidly,
Speaker 3: and during COVID they doubled down on employee engagement and
Speaker 3: education and they in fact they added labor. And I'll
Speaker 3: never forget I was that. I think it was the
Speaker 3: ICR conference. You were probably there as well, where I'm
Speaker 3: not going to name the brain, and there was a
Speaker 3: CEO of a company that said, we're eliminating busters and
Speaker 3: we're liminating hostesses because we'll save labor. And I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, that is a slippery slope. And for
Speaker 3: one quarter they save labor and in the second quarter
Speaker 3: they lost gas. Because it's you just your remove service.
Speaker 3: Darden didn't do that. They made their station size smaller.
Speaker 3: They really made sure that people were getting the best
Speaker 3: kind of service, and it paid off for them. Look
Speaker 3: at the results. It's been incredible and they've got so
Speaker 3: many change you can talk about, well, this one's up,
Speaker 3: this one's not, but on average they really do a
Speaker 3: wonderful job. And that's what it's sort of magical about it.
Speaker 3: This is a people business. But we can't talk out
Speaker 3: of both sides of their mouth and say people are
Speaker 3: most important asset and then not treat them well, not
Speaker 3: give them something that they can allow them to live
Speaker 3: and support your families or have dignity as well. And
Speaker 3: I think that's the key the difference that I really see.
Speaker 3: In fact, i'd say that during COVID, the companies with
Speaker 3: the most toxic cultures did not do well. The companies
Speaker 3: that had a healthy culture have thrived because people knew
Speaker 3: that they care. They still went through the layoffs, they
Speaker 3: went through all the furloughs and so for in all,
Speaker 3: but they might have offered them the ability to come
Speaker 3: into the restaurant and buy food at cost. They might
Speaker 3: have given them food. They organized among the employees and
Speaker 3: they encourage that ways of supporting each other. I mean,
Speaker 3: it shows you care when you when everything's taken away materially,
Speaker 3: what's left is your humanity. And that's the difference that
Speaker 3: we can try and do with our people. Nobody pays
Speaker 3: anyone else generally that much more than the guy down
Speaker 3: the street, But it's what you invest into them that
Speaker 3: makes a difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool, you know. To that point, culture's culture
Speaker 2: is critical, right and so so how do you how
Speaker 2: do you rebuild culture in a chain that's in the cline?
Speaker 3: Uh? Well, one, you have to be honest about what
Speaker 3: the culture is like. Cultures are either conscious or unconscious,
Speaker 3: you know, but they always exist. You know, when you
Speaker 3: work in a company where the leadership doesn't even go
Speaker 3: in their restaurants because it's not sort of the level
Speaker 3: of dining that they prefer, and that happens sadly in
Speaker 3: many brands. There's a problem. It's a big disconnect when
Speaker 3: you walk in. I'll never forget it was one brand
Speaker 3: that we took i think three executives to a restaurant
Speaker 3: close to their headquarters and they walked in and know
Speaker 3: even knew who they were, and they didn't know any employees'
Speaker 3: names because they just hadn't gone there, you know. And
Speaker 3: yet there's other brands that you walk in and it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, bees are on honey going, oh my god,
Speaker 3: look who's here, and they're all happy in the street.
Speaker 3: Like norm Breaker was that way. Norm Breaker walked into
Speaker 3: the restaurant. Everyone knew who he was and he knew
Speaker 3: who they were. And so that's the starting part of culture.
Speaker 3: And my metaphor for culture is pretty straightforward. I'd say
Speaker 3: it's like we're all standing in a swimming pool and
Speaker 3: it's everyone's job to keep the water clean. There is
Speaker 3: no pen section in a swimming pool, and some cultures
Speaker 3: are pretty damn bad. So it's like flossom and you
Speaker 3: got to clean it up. And that's the message you
Speaker 3: have to deliver to leadership is to help them understand
Speaker 3: that and look at it's not about nin or nin
Speaker 3: or niner. Again, I ran restaurant companies, half a dozen
Speaker 3: of them, and there were things that I didn't know,
Speaker 3: I wasn't aware of. I was ignorant to them. So
Speaker 3: it doesn't make me a bad person. Doesn't make these
Speaker 3: people bad, but it does. They're just ignorant or unaware.
Speaker 3: And we hold a mirror up and say, look at
Speaker 3: what this what we see and so and this is
Speaker 3: a reflection of what you can but you can do
Speaker 3: something about it. Right with the leadership team. We generally
Speaker 3: work with a tool from Patrick Lincioni, who wrote that
Speaker 3: great book to five this Functions of a team, and
Speaker 3: we use that tool to sort of, you know, quantify
Speaker 3: culture based on the answers that people give. And we've
Speaker 3: done it where we can slice and dize different levels
Speaker 3: of the organization, different regions, and it's amazing. The cultures
Speaker 3: that are really strong and powerful, they score very well
Speaker 3: as red, yellow, or green, and we use it as
Speaker 3: a benchmark and then take it a year later, take
Speaker 3: it a year after that, and you see these improvements
Speaker 3: and this beautiful. The day you see a score that
Speaker 3: everyone is green. You know, we just did one for
Speaker 3: another company out in California or recently, and I haven't
Speaker 3: even shared the results of me as we're not going
Speaker 3: to name them. But it was mediums all yellow was good.
Speaker 3: It was a great starting point. I mean that gives
Speaker 3: you hope. Now if it's bad, you don't go and
Speaker 3: yell at them. You just say, Okay, this is reality.
Speaker 3: This is what you said, and we're not going to
Speaker 3: try and figure out who answered it what way. It's
Speaker 3: less addressed what those things are because it talks about
Speaker 3: you know, accountability, communication and results, orientation, so far and
Speaker 3: so on, and then we go through the things that
Speaker 3: you have to try and do to achieve it. But
Speaker 3: it can be where we want it to be. An
Speaker 3: intentional culture. Now. Part of that is recognizing that your
Speaker 3: people are the ones who take care of your guests,
Speaker 3: and if you have unhappy people, you're gonna have unhappy guests.
Speaker 3: And we work a lot on guest journeys and employee
Speaker 3: journeys and at the end of the day, and Danny
Speaker 3: Meyer is the one who really did the best job
Speaker 3: of defining that in his book, you know, Setting the Table,
Speaker 3: where he talks about the hospitality being fifty one and
Speaker 3: the service being forty nine. Services mechanics. Hospitality is the
Speaker 3: emotion people experience as a result of that service and
Speaker 3: the engage with the employees. And so we really create
Speaker 3: a guest journey that's based on the emotional outcome of
Speaker 3: the guests. You know, it's not like the quep last questions.
Speaker 3: You know, would you prefer to return? Well, that's kind
Speaker 3: of flat. How about a desire to return an emotional reason.
Speaker 3: You know, I've got I love the team members that
Speaker 3: take care of me, they know my name, the treating respects,
Speaker 3: the old Cheers song, and so you can actually define
Speaker 3: the emotional outcome and the behaviors attached to it. The
Speaker 3: best example is Chick fil A. Chick fil A understands
Speaker 3: the emotional outcome of a guest experience and trains their
Speaker 3: people to create that. And once you give them that understanding,
Speaker 3: when you do this guest journey, and what we do
Speaker 3: is you going to social media. We take the best
Speaker 3: comments of all along the path of the guest experience,
Speaker 3: We take the worst comments of all and say, here's
Speaker 3: the worst experience that people have actually had in your restaurants,
Speaker 3: and here's the best, you know, So they're both possible.
Speaker 3: What's interesting is most is a mixture of both. And
Speaker 3: once you make people aware that, they're like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: So we can make a difference. So we say, what
Speaker 3: are those critical touch points to create for that point
Speaker 3: in time. If it's a sit down restaurant, how you're greeted.
Speaker 3: You know how many times you walk at the front
Speaker 3: desk and the coasts are talking to each other looking
Speaker 3: down at their open table screen. They don't even look
Speaker 3: at you to acknowledge that you're in front of them.
Speaker 3: You know, things like that, And so what's the feeling
Speaker 3: you have out of that? I feel ignored? So therefore
Speaker 3: I feel discussed. Right, I've scorned versus a really warm,
Speaker 3: friendly green How are you today? It's a beautiful day,
Speaker 3: So glad you're here. I hope you hunger Our food's great?
Speaker 3: Oh my god. The same amount of time transpired, but
Speaker 3: the outcome is very different. And you go along that line.
Speaker 3: And once we finish the guest journey, we then look
Speaker 3: at their training material and we point out to them
Speaker 3: that in ninety percent of the case is maybe higher.
Speaker 3: The training material talks about nothing in regards to the
Speaker 3: emotional outcome of the guest. All it is to the mechanics,
Speaker 3: it's just the service. And so then we weave that
Speaker 3: in and we talk about that emotional outcome, and then
Speaker 3: we create the employee journey, because employees are people too,
Speaker 3: and they have to have an emotional outcome. How are
Speaker 3: they recruited, how are they treated when they come in
Speaker 3: for an interview, what's their schedule so for and so on,
Speaker 3: And we go through the whole process of the employee journey,
Speaker 3: including the legacy, the ones that I've worked there before
Speaker 3: no longer work there, the private that they have for
Speaker 3: haven't been there, And off we go and that becomes transformative,
Speaker 3: you know, in everyone gets engaged in it. Before you know,
Speaker 3: everyone's talking about the same thing. Oh, we're here to
Speaker 3: make people feel special and have a desire to return,
Speaker 3: and we're special. Look what they're doing for us. And
Speaker 3: it's not about money. It costs you less money. It's
Speaker 3: about intent and care and empathy. It's really the biggest
Speaker 3: piece of this. And that's where I think Danny Meyer
Speaker 3: Chick fil A great examples and fine dining and casual
Speaker 3: or not casual you qsr that deliver that consistently time
Speaker 3: and time again. It's no mystery why Chick fil A
Speaker 3: is probably the most valuable private company on the planet,
Speaker 3: you know, because we don't know what they really do.
Speaker 3: We know they're average eight million dollars in six days
Speaker 3: a week, but god knows what the profitability is and
Speaker 3: you probably know better than I would. But it's got
Speaker 3: to be amazing with that number of restaurants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in those AUVs.
Speaker 2: Man, it's I don't have that data, but I'm sure
Speaker 2: they have excellent store level margins.
Speaker 1: But you know what, your points were so great. I think.
Speaker 2: You do a great job of explaining what you're doing,
Speaker 2: and it's really giving your employees a per purpose, right,
Speaker 2: and that purposes help help the customer feel good about
Speaker 2: their experience, have a nice night night out with their
Speaker 2: spouse or their kids, or whoever it might be.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's like it's so simple, but it's not. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's easy, right, So I guess who who does this?
Speaker 2: Who outside of Chick fil A, who else does a
Speaker 2: good job of this of you know, getting their staff
Speaker 2: to activate the emotions and all five senses of their customers.
Speaker 3: I think let us entertain your restaurants do a good job.
Speaker 3: Houston's kind of the gold standard, and Houston does it
Speaker 3: frankly and not look at They don't do a lot
Speaker 3: of hugs and kids in Houston. They're like a machine though,
Speaker 3: but they create such an efficient experience that you feel
Speaker 3: good about it, and their people are well trained. They're
Speaker 3: very high standards. I mean companies that I think bart
Speaker 3: Taco does a very good job. Scott. I spoke to
Speaker 3: him recently at a panel that I interviewed him, and
Speaker 3: you know what he did during COVID was to reimagine
Speaker 3: his entire service approach because he recognized I can't get
Speaker 3: all the people I need, so he's got to He
Speaker 3: created a setup now using technology where everyone makes fifty
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars an hour every a year. Everyone fifty
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars a year, dishwashers with benefits, with benefits,
Speaker 3: and the only one who makes more is bartenders because
Speaker 3: they get to keep the tips of the bar, but
Speaker 3: everybody else makes the same amount to do tip pulling.
Speaker 3: They use the technology to have they basically empower the
Speaker 3: guests to place their own order, which everyone's totally qualified
Speaker 3: to do. But they're out there with service captains really
Speaker 3: making sure that the guests experience is smooth and it's
Speaker 3: going well, the food's out on time. It's it's a
Speaker 3: wonderful use of technology and at the same time having
Speaker 3: high touch and high tech side by side.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The last two times I've been to Bartaco, the experience
Speaker 2: was amazing.
Speaker 1: It was very high touch.
Speaker 2: I got more I think I got more attention than
Speaker 2: I do anywhere else, right, Like, it was very impressive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when you're ready to go, hit the button,
Speaker 3: pay your bill and get out and walk out. You know,
Speaker 3: That's the beautiful thing is how many meals are ruling
Speaker 3: the restaurants because you can't get the waiter of waitress
Speaker 3: to come with your check, right, how many a lot?
Speaker 3: That's what we see in social media. That's always the
Speaker 3: last experience is what they remember, and if it's negative,
Speaker 3: it creates and it just you know, canvas is the
Speaker 3: entire experience in a bad way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, recency bias, right, it's one of the two primary biases.
Speaker 2: Primary and recency biases, the two main biases human beings have.
Speaker 2: So yeah, if the experience ends on a low note,
Speaker 2: it's tough. Yeah, absolutely all right, So you mentioned a
Speaker 2: little bit about working with emerging brands and putting guard
Speaker 2: rails on them, whether it be for growth or other reasons.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a.
Speaker 2: Little bit more about what your work with those type
Speaker 2: of chains and tails.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's it's a little different. It's to
Speaker 3: help them have a little bit more discipline, you know,
Speaker 3: and structure you know now, And it's just hard because
Speaker 3: sometimes like having a seventh year old teach them how
Speaker 3: to clean their room, right because like they don't want
Speaker 3: to clean their room. You know that if you say
Speaker 3: pick up your socks, they weigh like one hundred pounds.
Speaker 3: They way they act mo on and grown. So back
Speaker 3: again to what's your purpose? You know, why are you here?
Speaker 3: Who are your guests? You got all this energy around
Speaker 3: your concept, a lot of press and that's the problem.
Speaker 3: You get a lot of press you think, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I walk on water. And but then we start talking
Speaker 3: to employees and find out that, you know, even the
Speaker 3: smaller corpus that they may have, the left hand doesn't
Speaker 3: know what the right hand's doing. They don't have structured
Speaker 3: meetings and communication, they don't have KPIs. They can't define success,
Speaker 3: you know, they if you ask them, you know, what
Speaker 3: they stand for. They can't tell you that, and that's
Speaker 3: really important, you know, don't going back to Danny Meyers,
Speaker 3: you go back to a Chick fil A. They know
Speaker 3: why they're there. Okay, they understand why they're there and
Speaker 3: what direction north is true north is you know, they're
Speaker 3: not guessing. So we put them through the process of
Speaker 3: beginning to develop that and then we start talking about
Speaker 3: their roles and through a combination of like talent development
Speaker 3: and performance management, begin to define the results they're held
Speaker 3: accountable for as an individual and then collectively as a team.
Speaker 3: We do some strategic planning and we take an entrepreneur
Speaker 3: to me, is like a flood plane. There's water everywhere,
Speaker 3: and it's not it can be destructive. Discipline and and
Speaker 3: and proper management and structure is like a river bank.
Speaker 3: It takes that water and channels it with energy. So
Speaker 3: you can have recreation, you can you know, feed, you
Speaker 3: can water crops, you can have the energy you know,
Speaker 3: and we talk. We're teaching that this self discipline allows
Speaker 3: you to get more things done. People who are disciplined
Speaker 3: can be spontaneous. People who are undisciplined, they can do
Speaker 3: whatever they want. But the spontaneities. Really it's just an
Speaker 3: excuse for being disorganized and lack of focus. And once
Speaker 3: you do that, it makes a difference in the organization.
Speaker 3: I'll never forget. One of my favorite people is to
Speaker 3: make Enry from Cooperstock Winery. You know, I met him
Speaker 3: when he hadn't know three four restaurants and we did
Speaker 3: that with him, and boy did he follow it to
Speaker 3: a t. And my god, you know what, nine million
Speaker 3: dollars AUVs. He's very very well. He's got a new brand,
Speaker 3: is brought on forward and he's and he's naturally great
Speaker 3: people person. So he had that quality because he's really
Speaker 3: humble and authentic. But then he brought in that self
Speaker 3: discipline and brought in the correct kind of people to
Speaker 3: do that, and it's just been fantastic to see that
Speaker 3: change develop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's a great story. I remember listening to
Speaker 2: him a few years back at ICR. They've done that
Speaker 2: of a job. It's very cool, all right. So personally,
Speaker 2: I've always been attracted to building something. I went to
Speaker 2: Georgetown to help the football program make a leap from
Speaker 2: Division three to one Double A. I joined Bloomberg Intelligence
Speaker 2: in its early days with the goal of helping it
Speaker 2: become a world class research program. I think that's like,
Speaker 2: I think that's meaningful for a lot of people. So
Speaker 2: for that reason, i'd imagine emerging brands tend to have
Speaker 2: very strong culture. Is that is that always the case?
Speaker 2: Do you still find adjustments need to be made? And
Speaker 2: are there obstacles and improving and already culture that's pretty solid?
Speaker 3: Well, the answer is yes, they have a strong culture.
Speaker 3: Now the question is is the culture sustainable? And so
Speaker 3: I get men and women call me up saying, hey,
Speaker 3: this founder wants me to come in and be their
Speaker 3: first president. You know, should I go big? It's a
Speaker 3: good question, right, and and you know it's not like
Speaker 3: I have you know, some magic wand or crystal ball
Speaker 3: to telling what they shooters shouldn't do. But see, you
Speaker 3: know what once you find out if we will assume
Speaker 3: that the founder is successful and has money, okay, we'll
Speaker 3: find out that the next circle of people beneath them
Speaker 3: is also wealthy. Okay. If the answer is no, don't
Speaker 3: go there because that means that founder doesn't share. If
Speaker 3: the answer is yes, then go because you will also
Speaker 3: benefit from that as well. Again, Norm Brinker, uh, you know,
Speaker 3: look at the women brands without back Stakhouse. How many
Speaker 3: millionaires came out of that a lot, you know. And
Speaker 3: so and the funny thing is that if all your
Speaker 3: managers and directors and vps become millionaires, it means there's
Speaker 3: tens of millions at the top. And that's great. You know,
Speaker 3: it's even more because the more success is there push
Speaker 3: they push everyone up. And so that's part of it
Speaker 3: and the other aspect of it. And this is where
Speaker 3: I worked for Richard Melman, you know, who's one of
Speaker 3: the great restaurant tours out there. And it was fascinating
Speaker 3: to me because he also generated a lot of millionaires
Speaker 3: out of things, and he was like a university for creativity.
Speaker 3: He was fantastic that way. And what I saw with him,
Speaker 3: and I was very young at the time and I
Speaker 3: worked with him, is that initially they were all his ideas, right,
Speaker 3: So that was the genius of an entrepreneur. They can
Speaker 3: see what other people can't see. The thing that I
Speaker 3: found interesting in working with a lot of entrepreneurs in
Speaker 3: my career is there's a transition from the entrepreneur that
Speaker 3: can go from just being an entrepreneur and is held
Speaker 3: back by that because their management skills are weak. They
Speaker 3: don't have the organizational understanding things like that, and they
Speaker 3: don't that they fail, but they just don't go to
Speaker 3: the level that they can. The ones that make this
Speaker 3: profound shift is that they no longer are the originator
Speaker 3: of all ideas. They're the cultivator of ideas and they
Speaker 3: recognize the ide That's what Melman was. He saw and
Speaker 3: I did that someone else presented to him, and he goes, wow,
Speaker 3: that's great, we can do something with it. We not me,
Speaker 3: we can do something with it. Let's do that. And
Speaker 3: he helped, you know, bring that along. And that's the difference,
Speaker 3: you know, that's the difference with an entrepreneur that matures first,
Speaker 3: not for sure that has to be in control of
Speaker 3: every decision that's going on, or no, no, if it
Speaker 3: doesn't come for me, that is not a good idea.
Speaker 3: And you know, you could go look through the back
Speaker 3: pages of Nation's Restaurant and you will figure out which
Speaker 3: ones those were. You just know which ones those were
Speaker 3: versus the ones that made the thing where you know
Speaker 3: Danny Meyer, you know, he's not the one that comes
Speaker 3: up with all the ideas. He's built a huge organization
Speaker 3: that has exceptional because he's a lot of other people
Speaker 3: to come forward and then take credit. He'll still get
Speaker 3: credit for it at some point, which is fine, but
Speaker 3: he's not the sole originator, as the cultivator of ideas
Speaker 3: and therefore other people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes back to the employees, right and giving
Speaker 2: them the freedom and the responsibility to you know, make
Speaker 2: decisions and flourish.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well look at Todd Graves at Raising Kynes. I mean, look,
Speaker 3: watch out that brand is. You know, he's not an
Speaker 3: overnight success, madam and Todd when he was still working
Speaker 3: at oil Rings you know and Tuna Boats. You know,
Speaker 3: he was raising money for his first restaurant and look
Speaker 3: at the great success. But he has singularly focused on
Speaker 3: his culture and I think he calls it one love
Speaker 3: and it's sincere and he's always had his business card,
Speaker 3: you know, chief bottle washer, dishwasher whatever, you know. And
Speaker 3: he doesn't do it out of like, oh let's be cute. No, no,
Speaker 3: this is humility in practice. He sets the example and
Speaker 3: he's achieved tremendous success because of that, and his volumes
Speaker 3: are very high. It's a mono concept like Chick fil
Speaker 3: A and in and out Burger. But lookout, world, he's
Speaker 3: he's on the rise. It's gonna you know, like now
Speaker 3: everyone talks about Chick fil A for them, they started
Speaker 3: when McDonald's was the king. Look at Ben now and
Speaker 3: I think raising Kings and Todd specifically are going to
Speaker 3: show people that culture makes a big difference. It's the
Speaker 3: secret sauce for great brands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great to see, all right, So everybody's trying
Speaker 2: to play catch up here over the last few years
Speaker 2: with technology. You know, I'm sure there's going to be
Speaker 2: a lot of good decisions, a lot of poor decisions.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: How critical is it, uh, you know for the restaurant
Speaker 2: chains importance right like success?
Speaker 1: Right now?
Speaker 2: How important is it to develop the right tech stack
Speaker 2: and bring on the right technology partners.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a must have. I mean there's a price
Speaker 3: of entry now. You can't do a restaurant concept without it.
Speaker 3: And what I love. I'm going to be going to
Speaker 3: the Food and the Man conference in May. I love
Speaker 3: that conference because those are all the millennials who their
Speaker 3: relationship with technology is so different than even you and
Speaker 3: definitely me right, you know, I'm a pioneer. Your generation
Speaker 3: sort of built to stuff. They were born with it.
Speaker 3: You know, they're there. They had an iPad in their
Speaker 3: hand at two years old, and they're they're The way
Speaker 3: they see technology and is applications to the restaurant industry
Speaker 3: is amazing. So it's a must have. Now there's different.
Speaker 3: There's a tremendous amount of technology. We could spend three
Speaker 3: hours talking about technology. But if you break it down
Speaker 3: to say, there's customer facing technology in the front of
Speaker 3: the house, the back door's operational technology, which includes the
Speaker 3: economy and the scheduling and the KDS and so for
Speaker 3: so on, the POS and all that stuff. There is
Speaker 3: also what i'll call sort of that off premise revenue
Speaker 3: generating technology apps, smartphones, all the responsive websites, that technology.
Speaker 3: And the last quadrant that I talk about is where
Speaker 3: the data is, okay, because ultimately that's where the money is.
Speaker 3: All these other technologies generate a lot of data, okay,
Speaker 3: and we're drowning the data over star for knowledge, and
Speaker 3: so the data miningeds where it really gets critical, because
Speaker 3: not only will I be able to understand, you know,
Speaker 3: how to be more fficient with my labor and productivity
Speaker 3: and things like that and my food costs, and then
Speaker 3: I can monitor my refrigerators and freezers and all, but
Speaker 3: I also understand my guests and I understand what their
Speaker 3: preferences are, and I'm able to do it. Now. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of the nonymization that takes place, but you
Speaker 3: can still get some great data out of certain companies
Speaker 3: that pull together. But the key part of it, it all
Speaker 3: has to be integrated. And a lot of people during
Speaker 3: the pandemic just grab whatever they could because all that realized,
Speaker 3: oh my god, if I don't do this, I'm gone,
Speaker 3: right because also had no you know, there's five channels
Speaker 3: right premise, on premise stigning, then take out delivery, catering,
Speaker 3: and drive through if you're a QSR. Well, when I'm
Speaker 3: you know, on premise dning was the bigger earl that
Speaker 3: was gone. All those other channels became important and they stayed.
Speaker 3: You know, the people might have been doing thirty forty
Speaker 3: percent off premise sales during the COVID, but when it
Speaker 3: all came back, they're still doing fifteen percent. That's significant
Speaker 3: and you don't hear so much and that you appreciate
Speaker 3: this before I was you know, what's your what's your
Speaker 3: your guest count? How many you know, what's your football
Speaker 3: if you're in the UK, now it's what's my square footage?
Speaker 3: You know, what are my sales for square feet? Because
Speaker 3: you realize that it's the sales they generated by square
Speaker 3: foot that is the ultimate measure, which includes that off
Speaker 3: premise delivery and catering so far and so on. They
Speaker 3: can add to your bottom line. And so it's important
Speaker 3: to have everything talk to have good integration. We're also
Speaker 3: going through a lot of disruption with POS. You're going
Speaker 3: from the client server model to a cloud based system.
Speaker 3: And the cloud based systems are better, but they're not perfect,
Speaker 3: and you got to be careful and you also tak
Speaker 3: your concept. You know what am I trying to accomplish
Speaker 3: with it? Because I sit down a restaurant versus QSR
Speaker 3: past casual drive through different needs from a technology standpoint,
Speaker 3: and we're seeing more and more you know, changes there.
Speaker 3: If you look at you know, PARS, you know probably
Speaker 3: one of the better cloud based systems. You know, they've
Speaker 3: bought loyalty companies, they bought other organizations that come in
Speaker 3: and do that to try and really you know, not
Speaker 3: to be once stop shopping, but it really show what
Speaker 3: the integration can try and do Others like Rebel have
Speaker 3: always been a little bit on the forefront with the iPad,
Speaker 3: but it keeps on shifting, and the big boys, you know,
Speaker 3: the micros and ncrs have had to adapt very very quickly.
Speaker 3: They've lost a lot of market share to these young upstarts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's been a lot of integration into the
Speaker 2: POS systems.
Speaker 1: They're allowing a lot more. But you know, is that
Speaker 1: enough for you?
Speaker 2: Do you think we'll see some more consolidation and restaurant tech.
Speaker 3: Oh? No, They'll continue to be consolidation. I mean, although
Speaker 3: it has been on a bit of a buying spree
Speaker 3: besides par it's inevitable. I mean, you know, especially if
Speaker 3: you're working on a responsive website and you're going to
Speaker 3: do an admission at the beginning. I remember, we did
Speaker 3: a lot of work with companies when they started using
Speaker 3: apps and your loyalty program in your online ordering program
Speaker 3: had to be dow separate lags, which it made no sense.
Speaker 3: Ultimately there was an API that allowed them to talk
Speaker 3: to another. So there will continue to be consolidation. And frankly,
Speaker 3: some of the tech companies they're not a company their feature.
Speaker 3: You know, we saw that in the days of Microsoft,
Speaker 3: companies would start just to be bought by Microsoft. Then
Speaker 3: it became start something be bought by Apple, and you know,
Speaker 3: like a flashlight app. You know, remember those are a
Speaker 3: flashlight app. Oh wow, that's cool that Then Apple said, hey,
Speaker 3: we're going to turn the flashlight on or off if
Speaker 3: we want to. Stuff like that. And so so your
Speaker 3: your POS system is critical because while in the old days,
Speaker 3: the POS was the sort of the solar system, he
Speaker 3: was the sun of everything rolled around it. There's been
Speaker 3: a lot of disintermediation of POS because now it's on
Speaker 3: your app. You know, I don't go into a Starbucks
Speaker 3: and stand in line. I go into a Starbucks, order
Speaker 3: my coffee off the app and just go pick it
Speaker 3: up because I get a priority. You know a lot
Speaker 3: of people just don't know that. They still, oh I
Speaker 3: gotta go stand in nine million. Don't just place the order.
Speaker 3: It's going to show up in that in that ticket immediately,
Speaker 3: you know. And those are the things that are going
Speaker 3: to continue to change, is how we leverage technology to
Speaker 3: our benefit. And of course that same smartphone lets your order.
Speaker 3: It's the same smartphone that other technologies follow you to
Speaker 3: know where you came from where we're going to to
Speaker 3: have a betteriness how to communicate with you. So it's
Speaker 3: true one to one marketing. That's another part that's really
Speaker 3: changed with the use of technology. Besides all the efficiencies
Speaker 3: to get in the back end with robots, that's really big.
Speaker 3: I mean right now, to pay a cash here in California,
Speaker 3: twenty two bucks an hour not kiosk. Easy decision, you know,
Speaker 3: because the guess once you control their experience anyway, they
Speaker 3: don't complain about that. In line, you just get up
Speaker 3: to the kisk and order what they want and order more.
Speaker 3: You can have leinky lights and pictures and so on
Speaker 3: and so on. So it will continue to change and involved.
Speaker 3: And that's why I enjoy the Food of the Man
Speaker 3: conference because the early all that change is happening with
Speaker 3: those people that show up for that conference.
Speaker 1: Nice it's a good nice plug.
Speaker 2: So are you still the CEO of Engelman's Bakery. What
Speaker 2: have you learned spending some time on the other side
Speaker 2: of the table as a food service provider?
Speaker 3: Yes, I am. It's been a great experience. I started
Speaker 3: that in June of twenty after COVID HIT. I was
Speaker 3: on the board and COVID HIT and sales dropped by
Speaker 3: sixty percent, and they asked, you know, the managing partner
Speaker 3: of the equity firm that owns it, asked me to
Speaker 3: go down and see if I could help them with
Speaker 3: a you know, a sales plan. And when I went down,
Speaker 3: I realized that you know, they did they didn't know
Speaker 3: what to do, and not because anyone knew what to do.
Speaker 3: I mean, June of twenty, who knew what was going
Speaker 3: on though, the world's coming to an end. So what
Speaker 3: we managed to do was they asked me to take
Speaker 3: over the company, and I agreed to it, you know,
Speaker 3: because my consulting practice basically we were working for free.
Speaker 3: We've helped a lot of companies to help them with
Speaker 3: all this, taking their text deck and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: but it's to get into the manufacturing side. Was a
Speaker 3: great experience for me because it takes a two million
Speaker 3: dollars machine to make a thirty cent bun. And then
Speaker 3: we we understood how how can we grow sales? And
Speaker 3: you know, I'm happy with the results that we've more
Speaker 3: than you know, double sales from the original amount that
Speaker 3: we had when we bought it. We've got very high
Speaker 3: profit ability when the process of buying more bakeries and
Speaker 3: all the restaurants stuff still applies. And I always joke
Speaker 3: with people. I said, in my salespeople like servers. Okay,
Speaker 3: my bakers are like cooks. My delivery drivers are like
Speaker 3: food runners, you know. And I and I use that
Speaker 3: as an analogy because it sort of sees you can
Speaker 3: see the levers of the business in terms of how
Speaker 3: it goes. So I've learned a tremendous amount and a
Speaker 3: lot more respect for what manufacturers have to go through
Speaker 3: during COVID trying to get product. Oh my god, supply
Speaker 3: chain was an issue. My you know, my flower price
Speaker 3: is up by sixty percent. My Laver's gone up by
Speaker 3: forty percent. You know, it's a it's a real thing,
Speaker 3: and you gotta and you gotta, you know, you got
Speaker 3: to manage the business profitably. So and also helping restaurants
Speaker 3: as best as we can. That's our ultimate customers, giving
Speaker 3: them a product that they serve to their guests, that
Speaker 3: they put into their body, and to make sure that
Speaker 3: they feel good about that.
Speaker 1: It's very cool.
Speaker 2: And I saw a video you posted on LinkedIn about
Speaker 2: Angleman's and you know, you put your money where your
Speaker 2: mouth is, right there was. It was a highlighting a
Speaker 2: bunch of employees that had been working for the company
Speaker 2: for a super long time. And it wasn't about all
Speaker 2: the accomplishments.
Speaker 1: And what management was able to do.
Speaker 2: It was about, you know, the people that are working
Speaker 2: there on the front lines and busting their butts every
Speaker 2: day making anglements.
Speaker 3: What it is now, that's exactly what it is. I
Speaker 3: had to practice what I preach and guess what it works.
Speaker 3: You take care of those people. It's that stakeholder mentality
Speaker 3: out of conscious capitalism. Everybody matters. It's not just the shareholders,
Speaker 3: it's the stakeholders, the employees, your vendors, your customers, the community.
Speaker 3: And we are working with you know, because it's hard
Speaker 3: to get labored. So I started working with a couple
Speaker 3: of you know companies. They're charities where they help people
Speaker 3: come out of prison and get brought back into normal
Speaker 3: life or out of addiction. We've got quite quite a
Speaker 3: few people who are former drug addicts who are not
Speaker 3: trying to get their feedback on the ground. And let
Speaker 3: me tell you something. When you can take a woman
Speaker 3: in her thirties who has three kids and they've been
Speaker 3: taken away by chold protective services because they're a methatic
Speaker 3: and they're there to get back on their feetback on
Speaker 3: the ground, and we hire them as tempts initially because
Speaker 3: they got to show us that they can come to
Speaker 3: work and be a good worker, and then to offer
Speaker 3: them a permanent job with enough money where they can
Speaker 3: afford an apartment. They get their kids back, and they
Speaker 3: burst into tears when you offer them that job. There
Speaker 3: is something about that that you just can't put into words,
Speaker 3: how rewarding it is and the sense of achievement for them.
Speaker 3: We just had another one that we did it for
Speaker 3: and she had an apartment, but she doesn't have a
Speaker 3: lot of money, and so we all pitched in and
Speaker 3: we got her a bedroom set and sheets and linens
Speaker 3: for her two kids so that they could have a
Speaker 3: bit to sleep in at night. You know. That's really fulfilling,
Speaker 3: you know, And so that's part of that stakeholder mentalent
Speaker 3: I'm talking about. In fact, our purpose had our purpose
Speaker 3: of the bakery is we nourish lives, which had if
Speaker 3: you think about it from a stakeholder standpoint, it addresses
Speaker 3: the food aspect of it as well as the fact
Speaker 3: that we're taking care of our guests we're taking care
Speaker 3: of I'm not. I guess our customers are any taking care
Speaker 3: of our employees.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, conscious capitalism. I know that's been.
Speaker 2: Really meaningful for you for quite some time. How long
Speaker 2: you've been associated with Conscious Capitalism.
Speaker 3: There over ten years And in fact, ironically, the new
Speaker 3: CEO of Conscious Capitalism Karen Salmon, it was the former
Speaker 3: CEO of par Technologies, and I'm the one to drag
Speaker 3: her there and she likes to tell the story because
Speaker 3: she goes, I don't have time, I don't have the
Speaker 3: money to do that. I said, take vacation, pay for
Speaker 3: out of your pocket. You will appreciate it. And she
Speaker 3: went and she just fell in love what they were doing,
Speaker 3: and they hired her as the CEO, which is great
Speaker 3: to see that. So that's also very warrant to see
Speaker 3: that change. And in fact, I was honored this past
Speaker 3: year at the Conscious Captain's CEO Summit. I was selected
Speaker 3: as the High Impact Conscious Capitalist business Person of the Year.
Speaker 3: It was like it was named after a gentleman who
Speaker 3: passed away during COVID from Columbia who was a great
Speaker 3: restaurant tour got who I got to know and that
Speaker 3: was a surprise and a very very big honors. I
Speaker 3: didn't anticipate that. It was just to be recognized.
Speaker 1: For that very cool and well deserved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, since I've known you for quite some time and
Speaker 2: and you've always uh you know, it's always been about
Speaker 2: about for your people and and doing good and having
Speaker 2: a purpose and uh you know, so you definitely.
Speaker 1: Practice what you what you preach there.
Speaker 2: So I recently found out we have something in common. Uh,
Speaker 2: you carry a memento Mory coin. I had a tattooed
Speaker 2: on my chest. Uh you have a yeah, yeah, I had.
Speaker 1: It done last year.
Speaker 2: A big part of that was I felt that a
Speaker 2: lot of time was wasted, uh during the pandemic and lockdowns.
Speaker 2: Not that I was wasn't busy, and not that I
Speaker 2: was uh it wasn't very productive, but uh, just there's
Speaker 2: a lot of things I want to do before the
Speaker 2: end of my life, and I wanted a reminder there
Speaker 2: for myself that life is short and you know, don't
Speaker 2: waste any time.
Speaker 3: Right. So that's that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks man.
Speaker 2: So, so do you have a favorite Stoke philosopher or
Speaker 2: a written or anyone that that speaks to you?
Speaker 3: Well, Ryan Holliday. You know, he's the one that's taken
Speaker 3: you know, Marcus Aurelius and Seneca and all those people
Speaker 3: have brought it forward. And I love his books. They're
Speaker 3: they're fantastic. And I'll be a little bit vulnerable here.
Speaker 3: Part of what drove it. I just passed my third
Speaker 3: anniversary of having my cancer surgery for prostate cancer. And
Speaker 3: the first time I spoke about it publicly it was
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago at Kind Just Capitalism CEO
Speaker 3: summit because they asked me to talk about it. I
Speaker 3: didn't want to talk about it. I'm a private person.
Speaker 3: But it was a gift that I did because I
Speaker 3: showed people that I cared. That'll ment tomorrow, you know,
Speaker 3: remember you'll die. And it was it was, you know,
Speaker 3: because one of the things I realized, because we have
Speaker 3: your you know, someone says you have cancer, it's like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, you know, your humanity is right in your face.
Speaker 3: And what it taught me was that I may not
Speaker 3: know how I'm going to die, specifically, none of us do,
Speaker 3: but I can choose how to live. And and that's
Speaker 3: really what you know, I picked up in the Bay
Speaker 3: the foundation of the Stoic philosophy is not what happens
Speaker 3: to is what you do about what happens and your
Speaker 3: approach to it. And I just said, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to be a victim of this. I'm going to live
Speaker 3: my life to its fullest. I took the job at Engelman's,
Speaker 3: you know, three months after my surgery. My wife and
Speaker 3: I talked about it. I mean, I could have retired,
Speaker 3: and you know, we talked about she goes, look at
Speaker 3: you love doing what you do. Go do it. You
Speaker 3: know you'll sit around here. What are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: You know, count the days. And it's been three years
Speaker 3: and I'm blessed to have an amazing wife who has
Speaker 3: supported me, and it makes a big difference. And every
Speaker 3: day's a gift. Every day's a gift, and that momentumry.
Speaker 3: I travel with that Maury coin and I've given a
Speaker 3: few away to people that I meet that I move
Speaker 3: by their story when they share it with me, because
Speaker 3: I have not that I have a collection at home,
Speaker 3: but I just go buy another one and carry it.
Speaker 3: But I got to talk to Lauren about the tattoo thing.
Speaker 3: I've never had a tattoo, but that's an interesting idea.
Speaker 2: Very cool. Please say hi to Lauren. She's absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2: You're a lucky guy, and thanks again for doing this.
Speaker 2: Thanks for all you've taught me about the rest Trump business,
Speaker 2: all the personal connections you made for me over the years.
Speaker 1: I'm lucky to call you a friend.
Speaker 3: Oh, I appreciate it. I feel the same way. All
Speaker 3: right means a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you, of course.
Speaker 2: And where can our listeners go to find out more
Speaker 2: about results through Strategy.
Speaker 3: Well, just go to our website Results through Strategies THHRU
Speaker 3: in the Middle. And also we have good presence on
Speaker 3: LinkedIn and you can find us there and see what
Speaker 3: we do. We do a lot, we have I've had
Speaker 3: great partners. We do a lot of different work in
Speaker 3: the industry. We post a lot. We're always a resource.
Speaker 3: We're not like attorneys that charge you a lot of
Speaker 3: money for a fifteen minute conversation. We love this industry.
Speaker 3: We want to get back to it, so it's part
Speaker 3: of our philosophy.
Speaker 2: All right, good stuff, Thanks for listening to everybody.