WEBVTT - Malcolm Breaks Down the Perfect Break Up Song 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:22.996 --> 0:00:24.956 Hey everyone, Welcome to all you lovers out there. 0:00:25.036 --> 0:00:27.436 This is Justin Richmond and I'm Leah Rose. 0:00:27.796 --> 0:00:30.116 We're the host of Broken Record, where we interview your 0:00:30.156 --> 0:00:33.876 favorite musicians and bring to life the stories behind their music, 0:00:34.036 --> 0:00:34.556 behind some. 0:00:34.556 --> 0:00:35.836 Of your favorite recordings. 0:00:36.356 --> 0:00:38.236 If you're listening to this in the Broken Record feed, 0:00:38.476 --> 0:00:41.076 welcome back. But if you're hearing us as a listener 0:00:41.076 --> 0:00:44.956 of another Pushkin show, that's because today we're doing something special. 0:00:45.116 --> 0:00:48.236 That's right. This is our Valentine's Day special, and today 0:00:48.356 --> 0:00:51.156 to celebrate the music we love. Justin and I are 0:00:51.196 --> 0:00:54.636 going to do what we love, which is argue about music. 0:00:54.796 --> 0:00:56.396 Ros's gonna be talking to some of our friends here 0:00:56.396 --> 0:01:00.036 at Pushkin, people who have equally strong opinions about the 0:01:00.076 --> 0:01:01.116 songs they love. 0:01:01.716 --> 0:01:03.436 I'll be talking about Gladwell, who. 0:01:03.396 --> 0:01:06.996 Has a very Gladwelling intake about why he believes country 0:01:07.116 --> 0:01:09.876 is the best genre for love song and I can 0:01:09.916 --> 0:01:12.476 guarantee it's not for the reason you may think. 0:01:12.876 --> 0:01:14.916 It's depressive music. That's what it is. 0:01:15.476 --> 0:01:18.756 Well also hear from Ben nattif Hoffrey, the sometimes host 0:01:18.836 --> 0:01:21.836 of the Last Archive, about a love song he wrote 0:01:21.876 --> 0:01:27.356 that's so good it helped him score his Forever, Valentine. 0:01:26.716 --> 0:01:29.036 I think that folk music does love songs the best. 0:01:29.316 --> 0:01:31.116 But first, justin I'm going to ask you what I 0:01:31.156 --> 0:01:35.756 think is a central question of today's episode. I think 0:01:35.836 --> 0:01:39.356 I know what you're gonna say. But out of every 0:01:39.556 --> 0:01:43.956 genre and subgenre that exists today, which one do you 0:01:44.036 --> 0:01:46.676 think does love songs the best? 0:01:47.156 --> 0:01:47.676 R and B? 0:01:48.476 --> 0:01:48.996 I knew it. 0:01:49.556 --> 0:01:52.796 Look, when you think about it, it's really the shorthand 0:01:53.036 --> 0:01:55.356 in music in an audio for love, Like if you 0:01:55.396 --> 0:01:57.396 were scoring a love scene in a movie for like 0:01:57.476 --> 0:01:59.996 Netflix or like the most amount of people are possible. 0:01:59.636 --> 0:02:01.796 To watch, like, you would probably throw in an R and. 0:02:01.716 --> 0:02:04.396 B song, you know, maybe uh yeah, you know Al Green, 0:02:04.436 --> 0:02:05.156 Let's stay Together. 0:02:13.676 --> 0:02:14.116 I'm so. 0:02:18.036 --> 0:02:18.396 Come on. 0:02:18.476 --> 0:02:20.756 That's that's really Those are the sounds of love right there. 0:02:20.796 --> 0:02:20.996 You know. 0:02:21.396 --> 0:02:24.036 It's very much like what song are you choosing for 0:02:24.116 --> 0:02:25.476 the first dance at your wedding? 0:02:25.916 --> 0:02:29.716 The first right, the first, the first slow dance. It's 0:02:29.756 --> 0:02:33.396 your junior high welcome dance, you know what I'm saying, 0:02:33.556 --> 0:02:35.796 Or you're a senior prompt like, it's gonna be R 0:02:35.796 --> 0:02:38.116 and B. It's kind of the cliche genre that we 0:02:38.236 --> 0:02:40.316 go to, and I don't I think I should give 0:02:40.316 --> 0:02:42.276 a deeper reason in here, because I think R and 0:02:42.316 --> 0:02:45.836 B kind of gets short shrift in the music world, 0:02:45.876 --> 0:02:48.116 like you know, rock and roll and hip hop. I've 0:02:48.156 --> 0:02:51.516 taken up all the air in the room for sixty 0:02:51.596 --> 0:02:53.556 years now, yeah, you know, since since the since the 0:02:53.556 --> 0:02:54.356 British invasion. 0:02:54.796 --> 0:02:57.196 A couple of years were spent on em but yeah. 0:02:57.076 --> 0:02:59.836 A couple of years, yeah, right, scrill X was big 0:02:59.836 --> 0:03:02.276 there for yeah, yeah, Yeah, It's not a sexy topic 0:03:02.316 --> 0:03:05.156 for some reason. I think because it's so ubiquitous, because 0:03:05.196 --> 0:03:08.516 in some ways it's so ever present, and we just 0:03:08.636 --> 0:03:10.556 find it very easy to ignore. But when you think 0:03:10.596 --> 0:03:12.476 about the fact that R and B comes out of 0:03:12.516 --> 0:03:13.596 really like it comes out. 0:03:13.436 --> 0:03:15.116 Of gospel, you know, like. 0:03:15.636 --> 0:03:18.836 Gospel is about love and devotion to a higher being, 0:03:18.996 --> 0:03:22.196 to God. And at some point, all these gospel musicians 0:03:22.236 --> 0:03:24.196 that go out they want to write popular songs or 0:03:24.236 --> 0:03:26.276 sing popular music instead of just singing in the church, 0:03:26.516 --> 0:03:30.316 and they take everything they've learned in gospel music about 0:03:30.316 --> 0:03:32.956 how to sort of create a stir and a fervor 0:03:32.996 --> 0:03:35.516 around God, and they just sort of sent a romantic love. 0:03:35.876 --> 0:03:37.876 So they just take God out and put in a man, 0:03:37.956 --> 0:03:40.756 a woman, a lover, you know, a classic example is 0:03:40.956 --> 0:03:44.436 Sam Cook, who's originally with the gospel group the Soulsters, 0:03:45.436 --> 0:03:47.796 and he releases a song He's so Wonderful, which is, 0:03:48.196 --> 0:03:49.596 you know, it's a gospel. 0:03:49.196 --> 0:03:57.796 Track, wonderful, God, so. 0:03:59.716 --> 0:04:05.556 Wonderful than when Sam Cook wants to cross over, like 0:04:05.596 --> 0:04:08.036 about a year later and wants to just make an 0:04:08.116 --> 0:04:10.596 R and B cut, he reworks that same song and 0:04:10.636 --> 0:04:12.596 instead of wonderful, becomes. 0:04:12.236 --> 0:04:16.676 Lovable, lovable, My. 0:04:19.876 --> 0:04:21.076 She's lovable. 0:04:22.996 --> 0:04:24.516 So then how could you not say that R and 0:04:24.516 --> 0:04:27.076 B isn't like the preeminent genre for love songs. 0:04:27.116 --> 0:04:29.516 It's like it's it has to do with the. 0:04:29.916 --> 0:04:33.916 The ethereal and the theological, down to the romantic and 0:04:33.916 --> 0:04:35.996 the platonic, like it's everything. 0:04:35.716 --> 0:04:38.076 And then it just gets dirtier and dirtier as the 0:04:38.156 --> 0:04:40.996 years go on. And then we landed the song. 0:04:40.876 --> 0:04:44.556 Song Yeah, shout out to I Love Cisco and that's 0:04:44.556 --> 0:04:45.156 a great album. 0:04:45.236 --> 0:04:46.156 I love the song. 0:04:46.836 --> 0:04:49.796 R and B does do love very very well. But 0:04:49.876 --> 0:04:52.796 there's other genres too. I mean, look at Dolly Parton 0:04:52.876 --> 0:04:55.916 on Joelene. She's bagging and she's pleading and she's out 0:04:55.916 --> 0:04:57.796 of her mind. Please don't take my man. 0:04:58.156 --> 0:04:59.756 But then who takes? 0:05:00.716 --> 0:05:02.636 And we love Dolly, But then who takes a Dolly 0:05:02.676 --> 0:05:05.636 song like I'll Always Love You and takes it to 0:05:05.676 --> 0:05:23.196 the next level Whitney Whitney. 0:05:24.956 --> 0:05:28.236 Speaking of Whitney, someone who could sing anyone's song and 0:05:28.276 --> 0:05:31.196 make it sound phenomenal. This makes me think of the 0:05:31.196 --> 0:05:33.636 interview you did with Babyface for a Broken Record back 0:05:33.636 --> 0:05:36.396 in twenty twenty three. And he wrote some of Whitney's 0:05:36.436 --> 0:05:36.996 biggest hits. 0:05:37.316 --> 0:05:40.036 I mean, he wrote some of my favorite Whitney songs. 0:05:40.076 --> 0:05:42.916 Forget about his this is some of my favorites, and 0:05:43.076 --> 0:05:45.716 you know a million other unforgettable songs that you know. Yeah, 0:05:45.756 --> 0:05:48.396 they also happened to be hits. Boys and Men's End 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:51.436 of the Road Mariah carries We Belong Together Breathe Again 0:05:51.516 --> 0:05:52.556 by Tony Braxton. 0:05:53.036 --> 0:05:55.516 Yes, that was such a great interview. 0:05:55.876 --> 0:05:58.596 Yeah, man, I mean I'm sitting there with baby Face 0:05:58.676 --> 0:06:00.516 and I'm watching him play guitar in front of me. 0:06:00.556 --> 0:06:02.876 It was just crazy, you know. And he's he's left handed, 0:06:02.876 --> 0:06:04.836 he plays upside down like Hendrix. I mean, he's not 0:06:04.876 --> 0:06:07.236 as good as a guitar players Hendrix, but I mean 0:06:07.276 --> 0:06:09.716 it was just incredible would be that person up close 0:06:09.716 --> 0:06:13.276 with them and seeing how he wrote these songs, and 0:06:13.396 --> 0:06:16.956 he played for me a song he's never recorded with anyone, 0:06:17.196 --> 0:06:19.276 and it's the very first song he ever wrote about 0:06:19.316 --> 0:06:22.156 an early love of his first his first love actually 0:06:23.196 --> 0:06:23.876 in high school. 0:06:24.036 --> 0:06:24.916 Let's hear some of that. 0:06:26.476 --> 0:06:28.196 Here I go falling in love again. 0:06:28.756 --> 0:06:31.196 That was my first song, and I wrote it for 0:06:31.196 --> 0:06:33.916 a girl because I was like in love and stuff, and. 0:06:35.436 --> 0:06:38.356 So the guitar really was just an instrument. 0:06:37.916 --> 0:06:41.436 For me to get these songs out of me. I 0:06:41.476 --> 0:06:43.876 always like to say, even when I played and learn 0:06:43.956 --> 0:06:45.796 things on the piano, i play, I'm not really a 0:06:45.836 --> 0:06:46.476 piano player. 0:06:46.476 --> 0:06:49.076 I learned things. 0:06:48.996 --> 0:06:52.676 To support my songwriting, and that's what I did. 0:06:53.956 --> 0:06:56.396 Then I turned that into my first song. 0:06:56.636 --> 0:06:59.636 So I was just learning chords to support out my 0:06:59.676 --> 0:07:00.316 little songs. 0:07:00.476 --> 0:07:00.796 Wow. 0:07:01.116 --> 0:07:05.396 And for you, songwriting was about writing songs for the 0:07:05.436 --> 0:07:06.556 girls you were in. 0:07:06.436 --> 0:07:11.196 Love with crush and it was it was purely kind 0:07:11.196 --> 0:07:14.036 of an escape, so to say, Wow, it wasn't anything 0:07:14.476 --> 0:07:16.316 but that. I didn't think they were gonna go anywhere, 0:07:16.956 --> 0:07:19.476 but that was the that was the drive, and. 0:07:19.396 --> 0:07:22.316 You would have been like eleven twelve, ten, eleven twelve, yeah, yeah, 0:07:22.836 --> 0:07:26.076 I can't play a deal song sweet November. 0:07:26.876 --> 0:07:37.916 But mad that time that will read bad. 0:07:39.316 --> 0:07:45.196 That we Wow, man, that's that's a great song. 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:49.796 I wrote that right out of high school. Out of 0:07:49.836 --> 0:07:53.396 high school, yeah, it was. It was because I was 0:07:53.436 --> 0:07:57.076 a man child. So it was second year or something, 0:07:57.156 --> 0:08:00.916 seventy eight or so, seventy eight seventy nine, right in 0:08:00.996 --> 0:08:01.396 that time. 0:08:02.356 --> 0:08:06.996 So it was a girl. It was like this one girl. 0:08:07.036 --> 0:08:07.916 She was like the most. 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:10.116 While we were in highigh school, we were really good 0:08:10.156 --> 0:08:13.316 friends and there's no way I would have ever thought 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:16.396 I would have been with her. But when I got 0:08:16.436 --> 0:08:19.276 out of high school, we we started talking and then 0:08:19.276 --> 0:08:20.396 we actually started dating. 0:08:20.436 --> 0:08:23.716 I remember Daryl was like, how how was this even happening? 0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:24.956 How do you have her? 0:08:25.956 --> 0:08:31.116 And then I remember we went to go see Brookshields 0:08:31.436 --> 0:08:34.876 Endless Love when I saw Endless Love together and then 0:08:35.556 --> 0:08:40.596 something happened, I think before we were going going away 0:08:41.196 --> 0:08:44.276 in Manchild, all of a sudden she stopped calling me 0:08:44.756 --> 0:08:47.516 and I couldn't I couldn't reach her, and I don't 0:08:47.516 --> 0:08:49.956 know what happened, but it was just like we're just 0:08:49.956 --> 0:08:54.236 like broken up. And then there was no cell phones, 0:08:54.236 --> 0:08:55.956 there was no good you couldn't reach our on the phone, 0:08:55.956 --> 0:09:00.276 and no social media. It was just done. And I 0:09:00.356 --> 0:09:03.276 was really messed up about it. And and that's when 0:09:04.076 --> 0:09:06.716 I wrote this, you know, because you know that was 0:09:06.716 --> 0:09:08.316 the time period. It was in the fall, and of 0:09:08.316 --> 0:09:11.156 a sudden, I was thinking maybe maybe when I come back, 0:09:11.196 --> 0:09:14.476 maybe maybe it's November, we'll get back together and find it. 0:09:14.516 --> 0:09:16.956 So that was actually a loss song that was written 0:09:18.076 --> 0:09:18.796 way back then. 0:09:18.996 --> 0:09:22.196 And would you have written the words or would. 0:09:21.956 --> 0:09:23.876 You write the words for piano and wrote it's. 0:09:23.716 --> 0:09:24.396 Like the piano. 0:09:24.596 --> 0:09:27.836 Yeah, wow, So. 0:09:27.196 --> 0:09:30.156 Because it's kind of beautiful even just divorced from the music, 0:09:30.196 --> 0:09:32.876 if you just look at the words like high level. 0:09:33.036 --> 0:09:33.236 You know. 0:09:33.756 --> 0:09:36.236 Yeah, it was when all the first arrived. You with 0:09:36.276 --> 0:09:37.836 my lady, we're dating. 0:09:38.116 --> 0:09:40.276 It was the second reign of Ittom. We shared a feeling. 0:09:40.356 --> 0:09:44.036 Yeah, come on, that's it's like we start dating and 0:09:44.076 --> 0:09:46.116 then all of a sudden we like I remember it 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:50.396 was raining and like it looks like something's gonna happen here. 0:09:50.516 --> 0:09:56.036 So that almost really personal. Yeah, exhale was more from 0:09:56.076 --> 0:09:56.996 watching the movie. 0:09:57.356 --> 0:09:58.236 Watching the movie. 0:09:58.556 --> 0:10:00.956 You don't necessarily have to write from personal experience. You can, 0:10:01.556 --> 0:10:03.356 you can, but you can watch others and. 0:10:03.356 --> 0:10:07.196 No, yeah, it's really about watching others and how they 0:10:07.436 --> 0:10:10.796 how they feel and how they imagining having to go 0:10:10.876 --> 0:10:13.156 through that. I'm always asked, how are you able to 0:10:13.196 --> 0:10:17.156 write for women? Yeah, and said, if you just kind 0:10:17.156 --> 0:10:18.996 of think of it and think of whatever they go 0:10:19.116 --> 0:10:22.796 through and think out how you'd feel, you know, it's 0:10:22.836 --> 0:10:26.196 not that hard to figure out. Damn, that's fucked up. Yeah, 0:10:26.476 --> 0:10:28.756 I feel you know, I think all right about that, 0:10:28.836 --> 0:10:32.716 you know. And as a kid that was always falling 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:34.356 in love and thinking I. 0:10:34.316 --> 0:10:35.356 Was in love, feeling like you. 0:10:37.356 --> 0:10:38.756 Know, that's what it was. 0:10:39.076 --> 0:10:42.156 My very first song was about a girl named round 0:10:42.196 --> 0:10:44.236 the new bould always say her name, and that was 0:10:44.276 --> 0:10:48.276 in here I Go falling in love again. And the 0:10:48.316 --> 0:10:51.516 second song that I wrote that I clearly remember was 0:10:51.556 --> 0:10:54.116 about the same girl, which was two years later, from 0:10:54.156 --> 0:10:56.556 sixth grade to eighth grade, because she broke my heart, 0:10:57.076 --> 0:11:02.196 was called the Better Taste of Life. Oh those are 0:11:02.236 --> 0:11:05.436 feelings that I that I had, and everything was exaggerated. 0:11:05.436 --> 0:11:08.436 I had written a song called so Shy, So there 0:11:08.436 --> 0:11:10.756 were pieces, there were be pieces of things of songs 0:11:10.756 --> 0:11:13.076 that I would write. I wrote a song called Anita, 0:11:13.436 --> 0:11:16.476 wrote a song called Shelley. One of the best songs 0:11:16.476 --> 0:11:19.876 I ever wrote was a song called Last Song Forever, 0:11:20.076 --> 0:11:22.636 which was I wrote that when I was in my 0:11:22.716 --> 0:11:25.596 senior year. Can never recorded, I think so. I think 0:11:25.636 --> 0:11:27.876 I let a group record as they turned into a gospel. 0:11:27.916 --> 0:11:28.916 Do you remember any of it? 0:11:29.196 --> 0:11:30.876 Yeah? Could you play a little of it? I don't 0:11:30.916 --> 0:11:32.236 know what my voice is like right now. 0:11:37.036 --> 0:11:44.916 When I think Spanish, I remember a special feeling sweet se. 0:11:48.876 --> 0:11:50.676 Then I think. 0:11:51.556 --> 0:11:56.356 Spanish show moments. Those were special times. You told me 0:11:56.556 --> 0:11:57.156 you can. 0:12:01.876 --> 0:12:02.396 You know when. 0:12:04.276 --> 0:12:04.796 Blown away? 0:12:06.596 --> 0:12:10.556 I hope you know why now Mark, I will always 0:12:12.796 --> 0:12:24.796 I love you for you know man of thinking Libeta song, 0:12:28.716 --> 0:12:38.716 I God love you then, my dude right now and. 0:12:42.316 --> 0:12:43.876 That's okay. 0:12:45.876 --> 0:12:48.076 You can hear all of my conversation with baby Face 0:12:48.076 --> 0:12:50.236 and the broken record episode that was going to link 0:12:50.316 --> 0:12:52.916 to in the show notes. There's so much more to it, 0:12:52.996 --> 0:12:56.156 including how some of his biggest influences were singer songwriters 0:12:56.196 --> 0:12:59.556 like James Taylor and the Beatles. Coming up after the break, 0:12:59.596 --> 0:13:02.116 Pushing and producer Ben out of Paffrey tells Lea about 0:13:02.116 --> 0:13:03.676 writing his own love song. 0:13:18.716 --> 0:13:21.076 I think that folk music does love songs the best. 0:13:21.356 --> 0:13:24.836 That star Pushkin, producer and sometimes host of the Last Archive, 0:13:25.036 --> 0:13:27.476 Ben Natif Haffrey Folker Country. 0:13:27.716 --> 0:13:31.196 Either one would be my leading contender for the genre 0:13:31.276 --> 0:13:34.396 that is best at love songs. And I think it's 0:13:34.436 --> 0:13:41.276 because on some level, like I think like a breakup 0:13:41.316 --> 0:13:45.076 song or a lost love song is superior to a 0:13:45.076 --> 0:13:49.196 straight up love song. Me too, because I think, like you, 0:13:49.556 --> 0:13:51.796 if you're in love, you don't really need a song 0:13:52.116 --> 0:13:56.676 like you feel this kind of symphonic happiness, Like there's 0:13:56.676 --> 0:14:00.476 something specific that you're experiencing with another person, Like if 0:14:00.476 --> 0:14:05.156 you are experiencing lost love or unrequited love, there's something 0:14:05.596 --> 0:14:10.756 about a particular breakup story or yeah, romance song that 0:14:10.836 --> 0:14:13.596 like creates a community with you when you maybe feel 0:14:13.676 --> 0:14:16.636 otherwise alone or bereft. But I think that there's like 0:14:17.276 --> 0:14:21.756 wistful folk music, wistful country music kind of toes the 0:14:21.796 --> 0:14:23.476 line between these two things. 0:14:23.836 --> 0:14:26.276 To be honest, I also think that sad songs might 0:14:26.316 --> 0:14:28.996 make the best love songs. But the real reason I 0:14:29.036 --> 0:14:31.316 wanted to talk to Ben is because I learned at 0:14:31.356 --> 0:14:34.636 our holiday party that he also has a second life 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:38.436 as a musician and as a songwriter with the band Ruken. 0:14:38.996 --> 0:14:40.956 Yes, and this is part of my long con to 0:14:40.996 --> 0:14:43.316 get interviewed on Broken Record for my music. 0:14:44.596 --> 0:14:45.676 Well you're class. 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:46.476 Yeah, exactly. 0:14:47.116 --> 0:14:49.876 So this is our Valentine's Day special. And I was 0:14:49.956 --> 0:14:54.636 tipped off by our producer Izzy about a love song 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:57.676 that you wrote a couple of years ago, and it 0:14:57.796 --> 0:15:01.956 actually ended up having sort of like a big impact 0:15:02.036 --> 0:15:04.796 on your life. So I wanted to ask you about 0:15:04.836 --> 0:15:07.836 this song if I didn't know you by now, so 0:15:07.876 --> 0:15:10.756 set the stage for us. How did this song come 0:15:10.796 --> 0:15:11.036 to be? 0:15:12.396 --> 0:15:12.756 Well? 0:15:12.916 --> 0:15:14.676 I wrote this song about like a year after I 0:15:14.716 --> 0:15:16.876 first moved to Brooklyn. So I was like just out 0:15:16.876 --> 0:15:19.396 of college and I had moved to Brooklyn and I 0:15:19.436 --> 0:15:21.156 was living with a bunch of friends in what was, 0:15:21.596 --> 0:15:25.036 you know, actually quite a nice apartment. I had not 0:15:25.196 --> 0:15:28.636 made my corner of the apartment particularly nice. I was 0:15:28.636 --> 0:15:33.876 not having the best time that year, and I had, 0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:37.996 I think, as an expression of vague despair, just like 0:15:38.076 --> 0:15:40.876 not really done anything to set it up. I don't 0:15:40.916 --> 0:15:43.316 remember why this is, but I remember I had like 0:15:43.356 --> 0:15:46.116 a tarp in the corner of the room. I had 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:49.196 a tarp in the corner of the room like a mattress, 0:15:50.036 --> 0:15:52.556 and then a saw on the wall. Oh my god, 0:15:52.596 --> 0:15:53.996 I thought it would be like fun to put on 0:15:54.036 --> 0:15:58.236 my wall, but it looked terrifying, And that was like 0:15:58.396 --> 0:16:01.996 pretty much it. And I remember distinctly walking into the 0:16:01.996 --> 0:16:05.636 apartment one time with a good friend of mine from 0:16:06.356 --> 0:16:10.236 high school, and I had like in my pocket and 0:16:10.316 --> 0:16:12.076 I like took the change out of my pocket and 0:16:12.116 --> 0:16:14.356 I threw it in the corner and she was like, 0:16:14.436 --> 0:16:18.436 why did you just throw your change in the corner? 0:16:18.476 --> 0:16:20.236 I was like that that is the corner of the 0:16:20.276 --> 0:16:22.396 apartment where I keep my change. And it was like 0:16:22.516 --> 0:16:24.716 it was indeed like next to the tarp, like a 0:16:24.716 --> 0:16:28.196 pile of change. So there were no shades on the window. 0:16:28.356 --> 0:16:31.636 This is like a crucial thing. I just was like 0:16:32.756 --> 0:16:36.316 not super taking care of myself, Like everything was totally fine, 0:16:36.356 --> 0:16:40.196 but my life was not in order. And then I 0:16:40.236 --> 0:16:43.396 started dating a friend of mine from college. Her name 0:16:43.476 --> 0:16:47.636 was Julia, and she was living in Nashville at the time, 0:16:47.836 --> 0:16:50.116 and we sort of like picked back up talking to 0:16:50.156 --> 0:16:53.036 each other at a distance, and then when she came 0:16:53.116 --> 0:16:56.956 to New York, we would hang out. And I noticed that, like, 0:16:57.476 --> 0:17:00.196 as Julie and I had been talking more and started 0:17:00.236 --> 0:17:02.476 seeing each other in Nashville and also in New York, 0:17:02.956 --> 0:17:07.236 that slowly I had begun to set up my room. 0:17:07.636 --> 0:17:10.236 I got shades through the window. I put like they 0:17:10.236 --> 0:17:12.796 didn't actually fit, but I got like handkerchiefs that extended 0:17:12.796 --> 0:17:14.356 them to the bottom. I got rid of the tarp. 0:17:14.436 --> 0:17:16.236 I did, in fact leave the saw on the wall 0:17:17.116 --> 0:17:19.116 because that was by then a crucial part of the 0:17:19.116 --> 0:17:22.436 decor and my identity and remains. So I don't remember 0:17:22.476 --> 0:17:24.196 what I did with the change corner. There's a good 0:17:24.276 --> 0:17:25.956 chance to change corner sort of remained. 0:17:26.036 --> 0:17:28.156 The growing up process is a slow one. 0:17:28.356 --> 0:17:30.636 The growing up process is a slow one, but it began. 0:17:31.396 --> 0:17:37.076 It began with fixing up that first room. There was 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:41.716 a moment I remember where she came and visited. It 0:17:41.756 --> 0:17:44.956 was early spring, and we had this really wonderful weekend 0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:47.676 together exploring the city, and she'd grown up in New 0:17:47.756 --> 0:17:49.076 York and I was kind of new there, and she 0:17:49.156 --> 0:17:51.516 was shown me around and we went to like a 0:17:51.556 --> 0:17:53.996 Lebanese church, and I'm Lebanese and it was kind of 0:17:53.996 --> 0:17:56.436 like a so they just wandered in because they were 0:17:56.436 --> 0:17:59.156 having like a food festival kind of thing. 0:17:59.196 --> 0:17:59.276 Like. 0:17:59.316 --> 0:18:03.836 There were a lot of wonderful, serendipitous things. Yeah, And 0:18:03.916 --> 0:18:06.156 I remember it was after that visit, I think on 0:18:06.196 --> 0:18:07.756 the day that she had left, but I was hanging 0:18:07.756 --> 0:18:09.796 out in my room and I was playing guitar and 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:22.196 I started writing this song. Like a lot of hack 0:18:22.316 --> 0:18:25.676 guitar players, I use a lot of open tunings, and 0:18:26.116 --> 0:18:29.196 around that time I had been playing the Rain Song 0:18:29.276 --> 0:18:32.716 by led Zeppelin, which is a version of open C tuning, 0:18:32.916 --> 0:18:34.876 and so I just would like keep my guitar in that, 0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:37.996 and I remember figuring out the sort of main guitar 0:18:38.076 --> 0:18:40.876 line and then messing around with the words over it. 0:18:44.476 --> 0:18:45.436 If I didn't know. 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:47.636 You ran. 0:18:50.076 --> 0:18:57.916 Whatever the plans upon the window falling away, back up 0:18:58.596 --> 0:19:07.076 my clean clothes with complain you know. 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:10.636 When I'm not a professional songwriter. This was a song 0:19:10.676 --> 0:19:13.516 that like definitely did not come easily to me, but 0:19:13.596 --> 0:19:17.796 it felt sort of like inspired by that moment and 0:19:17.836 --> 0:19:20.956 that feeling. It was kind of like a reflection of 0:19:20.996 --> 0:19:23.676 the fact that I was noticing that my life was changing, 0:19:25.036 --> 0:19:28.996 and an expression of gratitude to her for bringing me 0:19:29.036 --> 0:19:30.196 to the place where I wanted to do that. 0:19:32.156 --> 0:19:34.756 At what point did you realize I'm writing a love 0:19:34.796 --> 0:19:35.596 song for Julia. 0:19:35.996 --> 0:19:37.956 I think that that is just what it was. I 0:19:37.956 --> 0:19:40.276 think it's just because that was sort of where it 0:19:40.316 --> 0:19:42.676 came from, So I don't think it was a realization ever. 0:19:42.716 --> 0:19:44.316 It was just kind of that was the feeling it 0:19:44.356 --> 0:19:49.876 started from. 0:19:50.356 --> 0:19:51.196 I didn't know you. 0:19:55.716 --> 0:19:58.996 I didn't know, so yeah, I was in a long 0:19:58.996 --> 0:20:02.316 distance relationship, both then with Julia because she was living 0:20:02.356 --> 0:20:04.676 in Nashville, but then also with the lead singer of 0:20:04.716 --> 0:20:07.956 my band, Adam, who he was in like the UK 0:20:08.196 --> 0:20:13.076 getting a masters in medieval literature or something, And we 0:20:13.076 --> 0:20:15.756 were always working on an album in the background, usually 0:20:15.756 --> 0:20:17.596 as like an escape patch from like one or another 0:20:17.676 --> 0:20:19.916 job that we didn't want to do, So we were 0:20:19.916 --> 0:20:23.676 always like kind of trading versions of things. We spent 0:20:23.796 --> 0:20:26.116 a lot of time basically on every song, just like 0:20:26.156 --> 0:20:28.716 trying to get it right, recording and rerecording that kind 0:20:28.756 --> 0:20:31.276 of thing. And I would always share those things with Julia, 0:20:31.356 --> 0:20:34.476 and she like a joke evolved where she sort of 0:20:34.476 --> 0:20:38.476 teasingly would be like, is this song about me a 0:20:38.596 --> 0:20:40.956 thing that I would always like flatly deny. Did she 0:20:41.036 --> 0:20:42.876 come to shows? And she would like We would always 0:20:42.876 --> 0:20:45.276 have these long introductions to our songs about Often we 0:20:45.316 --> 0:20:49.756 wrote historical songs like Mark Twain's brother died in a 0:20:49.796 --> 0:20:53.156 steamship accident, and like there would be a long preamble 0:20:53.236 --> 0:20:56.396 to the the song about you know, Samuel Clemens's brother 0:20:56.396 --> 0:20:58.916 who dies in this horrible way, but there would notably 0:20:58.956 --> 0:21:01.556 be no no preamble or introduction to this song. And 0:21:01.636 --> 0:21:03.876 so this was the thing I was often mocked about. 0:21:03.996 --> 0:21:07.076 And it kind of reached ahead when we were like 0:21:07.556 --> 0:21:11.916 crowdfunding an album that we were doing, which is a 0:21:11.956 --> 0:21:14.916 fancy way of saying like asking our friends for money, 0:21:15.076 --> 0:21:17.796 and there was a thing that we offered that was 0:21:17.876 --> 0:21:21.396 like a handwritten lyrics sheet with the story behind the song. 0:21:22.196 --> 0:21:27.076 And so Julia bought that it requested a lyric sheet 0:21:27.076 --> 0:21:30.276 with the story behind the song for this song, which 0:21:30.436 --> 0:21:32.516 as a way of like cornering me into having to 0:21:33.316 --> 0:21:36.436 admit the provenance of the song. And I did not 0:21:36.716 --> 0:21:42.156 fulfill that lyric sheet for like quite a while, and 0:21:42.196 --> 0:21:45.156