1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff. I've 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: never told you a production of iheartrat You, and today 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: we are bringing back a classic a bit earlier than 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: we normally would. And this is also one that sadly 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: does not have Samantha in it because you had COVID. 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Oh no, yes, so this is when I was doing 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: some solo work. We should come back and revisit this though, 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: because I think you would have a lot to say 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: about it. This is the one I did about women 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: in disaster movies, and I wanted to bring it back 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: because Twister as a sequel that's coming out Twisters right now. 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: And I have watched a lot of disaster movies recently 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: that it have had a bit of a different take 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: on the woman's scientists specifically in disaster movies that is better, 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: but also there's something else interesting that's going on where 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: it's like there's still some other woman that is the 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: person we're rolling our eyes at, you know what I mean. 18 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: This has just been my experience. I have been watching 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: several disaster movies, but I would love to come back 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: and talk about this. We recently had a classic come 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: out about the Mummy, also having a twenty fifth anniversary, 22 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot of posts about that. So 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: it's just been a lot of memories coming back to 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: me from when I was a kid and watching these 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: movies and the characters that stood out to me, and 26 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: some of the characters that were really mistreated in some 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: of these movies. But yeah, in that spirit, we thought 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: we would bring back this classic episode, so please enjoy. Hey, 29 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: this is Annie, and welcome to stuff on ever told 30 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: your production of iHeartRadio And yes, unfortunately I am still 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: by myself. Don't worry, Samantha will be back, but right now, 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: due to scheduling and illness, you just get me, which 33 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: means I feel like I can run rampant, which is 34 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: fitting for the topic we're talking about today. I originally 35 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: mentioned this a few episodes back, where I wanted to 36 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: talk about this idea of who deserves to die, and 37 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: it was based on I've had I mean, I've had 38 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: this in the back of my head for a while, 39 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: but it was based on a recent headline i'd seen 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: about the very bad movie Deep Lucy that I still 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: enjoy but is quite bad, and the original ending for it. 42 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that more at the end. When 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: I was researching this, perhaps it won't surprise you, but 44 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: not too many people are writing about the feminism of 45 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sea. But I did find some other examples 46 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: and it kind of became a bit a bit bigger 47 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: than deserves to die, almost more like deserves redemption. And 48 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: that's a whole other trope of the you get redeemed 49 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: and then you die, but you don't do anything to 50 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: fix all of the harm that you did. Star Wars 51 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: is pretty bad about that one. But I wanted to 52 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: talk about this, and I have been on a bit 53 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: of a disaster movie. I've been watching a lot of them, 54 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: binging a lot of them. They were big parts of 55 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: my childhood. That being said, we have discussed horror movie 56 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: tropes that would fall under I would say the sort 57 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: of quotes deserves to die, like who is the audience like, 58 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 1: oh yeah, they deserve to go in horror movies as 59 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: often the slutty woman, the best friend of the final girl, 60 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: or the person of color, all of which is pretty problematic, 61 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: but that's not really what we're talking about today. We 62 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: have talked about that in several episodes, So if you 63 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: want to go check those out, you can. I wanted 64 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: to talk about more specifically in the disaster film Arena, 65 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: which because I'm by myself today, this one's going to 66 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: be a bit shorter and also not as researched as 67 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: we would normally do. I would love to come back 68 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: to it and get Samantha's thoughts on this, but I 69 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: do have a lot of thoughts about it, and I 70 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: have two, maybe three main examples of what I'm talking about, 71 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: one of them being Deep Lucy, which we will get. 72 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: We'll come back to, don't you worry. But one of 73 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: the big ones I always think of is from Jurassic World. 74 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: And I know I've brought this up before, I am 75 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: gonna have some criticisms of how women are portrayed in 76 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: that movie. If you like that movie, like I enjoyed 77 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: it well enough. But yeah, just just to say, I 78 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: did have a really funny, rousing conversation with me and 79 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of friends about they're critiques of the movie, 80 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: and especially how much of the dinosaurs are going for 81 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: like cost wise. They tell me that was nowhere near enough, 82 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: and I trust them. But yeah, when I saw that movie, 83 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: because I've said I was a huge fan of Drastic 84 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: Park and still am the first one, and then we 85 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: have an episode coming out about doctor Ellie Sadler and 86 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: I have a really funny update about those cards I 87 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: was bragging about. But when I saw this movie, it 88 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: was I think I had been working on the show, 89 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: and I would have I was a feminist for sure, 90 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: but immediately I was like, I don't. I feel like 91 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: these are some tropes that are pretty sexists that are 92 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: happening here. But one of the big things that really 93 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: when I was watching, I was like, this is unnecessary, 94 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: and I really don't like it is when I'm assuming 95 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: I don't have to break down the pot for all 96 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: of you. But yeah, it's a park the dinosaurs. The 97 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: dinosaurs genetically altered, and then they escape and recavoc and 98 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: there's just not a lot of good infrastructure to get 99 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: people out. But it focuses largely on Claire played by 100 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: Bryce Dallas Howard, who we're talking about in a second, 101 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: who is running the park, and then Owen who's played 102 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: by Chris Pratt, who is like the dinosaur whisper dinosaur trainer, 103 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: and the fact that Claire is looked down on because 104 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: she's a businesswoman that doesn't want kids. Again, more on 105 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: that in a second, but things go wrong. Dinahsaurs get out. 106 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: This character named Zara, who is the assistant of Claire, 107 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: is tasked with watching Claire's nephews when they visit, and 108 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: it was sort of an unexpected visit Claire's sisters getting 109 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: a divorce and it's just like not good timing, but 110 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: Claire a great to do it and then was really 111 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: busy and then pass them off to Zara, who is 112 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: played by Katie McGrath, And Katie McGrath's character is definitely 113 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: in the same vein that Claire's character is seen as 114 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: like not a good person because she's always on her phone, 115 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: she's always busy, she's not really paying attention to these kids, 116 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: which again we're passed off on to her, and eventually 117 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: the kids like give her the slip and escape, And 118 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: there is a scene where once the dinosaurs break out, 119 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: she is brutally killed for like a long time, and 120 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: when I was watching the movie, I was like, oh 121 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: my gosh, it's still going. Oh my gosh, it's still going. 122 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: I've read she's the first woman to die on screen 123 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: in Jurassic Park. I don't know if that's true, but 124 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: that's what I read. And it was such a long 125 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: drawn out death and it was kind of played as 126 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: like almost for laughs, or like, see, she should have 127 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: done better at her job and taken better care of 128 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: these kids, and now she's gonna get ripped up. So 129 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: she gets picked up by pterodactyl's terroritive terror something of 130 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: the flying dinosaurs. It has dropped into the grasp of 131 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: another dinosaur, like the sea dinosaur, and then so she's 132 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: like thrown back and forth between them. The flying dinosaurs 133 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: is screaming, and then it is dropped into the mouth 134 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: of this sea dinosaur and it just feels odd. It 135 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: just feels very odd, and it was in the trailer, 136 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: and in fact, it was a big part of the trailer, 137 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: and one of the trailers was titled Jurassic World Trailer 138 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: to starring Katie McGrath. And she's not really in it, 139 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: like she's barely in it, but her death, I guess 140 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: was supposed to be some kind of representation of, oh, 141 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: how gory this could be or and I believe Bryce 142 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: Dallas Howard says, oh, she gets tortured, and the director, 143 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: Colin Chevro says that it's quote one of the all 144 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: time dinosaur deaths in a movie. Wow, Yes, but it 145 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: just felt unnecessary. It didn't feel a lot of people 146 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: have compared it to the Lawyer from the first one, 147 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: the blood sucking Lawyer, but his death, even his death, 148 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: while it was sort of like drawn out, it wasn't 149 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: drawn out like that one. But two he had been 150 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: shown to be not great, Like he abandoned the children, 151 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: he didn't care about the morality of any anything to 152 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: do with the park. He was very much like, I'm 153 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: just going to protect myself. He wasn't sympathetic at all. 154 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: And the difference here is her death scene is much longer. 155 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: But also she does feel bad that these children ran 156 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: away from her when she's doing her work, and she 157 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: expresses that, but that's not seen as sympathetic. She is 158 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: not painted as sympathetic. She's painted as someone we're supposed 159 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: to kind of laugh at when she dies. And her 160 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: sin is she wasn't caring for these kids, who again 161 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: were not her kids. She was not planning to take 162 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: care of who ran away from her, and therefore she 163 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: must be punished. We will revel in her death as 164 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: the audience. She isn't like mean to them. I mean, 165 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: she's not like greatly developed again, she's not in the 166 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: movie that long, but she's not terrible. But still it's 167 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: painted as if, well, she deserved this, she deserved this death. 168 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: That being said, though, I am not the only one 169 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: who felt very jarred and disturbed by this scene. There 170 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: were a couple of quotes correlated by culture war reporters 171 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: from Reddit, because there's a whole thread dedicated to this scene. 172 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,239 Speaker 1: I guess here a few. Yeah, it was pretty horrifying. 173 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: The character didn't even deserve it, so there was zero satisfaction. 174 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: It just left me feeling violated, which I suppose it 175 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: was meant to. Here's another yeah, I guess it logically works, 176 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: but cinematically it was just cruel and unnecessary. I thought 177 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: maybe I was overacting to that scene. It made me 178 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: so uncomfortable. It was just so extended. Most deaths and 179 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: Jurassic Park series are quick in adding to the thrill 180 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: of the scene. This just felt cruel. Glad to see 181 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm not alone in this opinion. I asked my buddy 182 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: what did she do to deserve that death? And some 183 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: people were pointing out, like, you know, the dinosaurs, that's 184 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. But going back to that kind 185 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: of like cinematic, it doesn't make sense, comments of like, well, 186 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: what message are we to take from the fact that 187 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: she's the one that gets this, that she's sort of 188 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: the inexpendable one, that we're supposed to find some kind 189 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: of joy or satisfaction in her death, And it definitely 190 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: made me uncomfortable. I remember watching the scene and clearly 191 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: it stuck with me where I was like, Uh, why 192 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: are we supposed to rejoice at her death? That's just 193 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: what it felt like to me. And I am somebody 194 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: I can admit like, I'm not usually happy when someone dies, 195 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: even if they are not great. But it's just the 196 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: way it was so drawn out. And yeah, she really 197 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: wasn't in the movie that much to really warrant that. 198 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: That being said, I wasn't originally intending to do this, 199 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: but through this research I did find a lot of 200 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: commentary about Claire Rice Dallas Howard's character, who I also 201 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: when I saw this movie, I was like, wait, wait, 202 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: because she is such a trope. She is such like 203 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: an ice queen. She doesn't want kids, which is one 204 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: of the big points of the movie. And I think 205 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: it's meant to be a flip of Alan Grant, but 206 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: it feels super judgy where it didn't feel super judgy 207 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: with Alan Grant. It's like she's the lost sight of 208 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: what matters like. Not wanting to be a mother is 209 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: inherently bad in this movie. From the Mary Sue quote 210 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: from what we see, this woman with an entire park 211 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: to run, has multiple responsibilities across multiple divisions and gets 212 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: very little assistance, but has still agreed to take these 213 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: children as a favor for her sister during a divorce. 214 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: I would tend to agree that if you commit to 215 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: watching your sister's kids, you should put the phone down. 216 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: But it also seems like the weekend was pushed on 217 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: her rather than worked out with her schedule, and frankly, 218 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: Claire is dealing with this forced obligation as best she can. Nonetheless, 219 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: Claire is presented very early on as a bad person 220 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: of questionable morality because she has asked her assistant to 221 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: watch the boys while she goes to work. I certainly 222 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: didn't share Chris Pratt's look of shock and disgust when 223 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: she makes the horrific reveal that she doesn't know her 224 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: own nephew's ages. Yes, I remember that too. I was 225 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: looking around like Oh no, that that means I'm a 226 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: terrible person, because it's very clearly portrayed that way. That's 227 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: the problem. It's like, you can have these storylines of, 228 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, someone who is too focused on their work 229 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: and meets someone who kind of shows them like, oh 230 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: what about this? But if she wants to do her work, 231 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: then yeah, it doesn't mean she's a horrible person because 232 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: she doesn't have kidz or doesn't know her nephew's ages. 233 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: But it is I remember that distinctly watching this, like, wow, 234 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: she is They really want me to think she's bad 235 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: for this. And also it's a problem of writing, which 236 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: we'll talk about a bit more. But she was just 237 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: such a trope. She was such a superficial especially well 238 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that, but in this one, 239 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: which is the one we're focusing on, she was very 240 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: like the ice cream. That was her even in her costuming. 241 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: That was what she was. A quote from the Mary 242 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: Sue continues beyond that, Claire not having children and claring 243 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: she doesn't want children also isn't some sort of fatal 244 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: personality flaw. But Jurassic World clearly sees it this way, 245 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: believing the natural progression of women has them evolving into mothers, 246 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: and those who don't have that desire are somehow deficient 247 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: of humanity. Despite claims to the contrary, Motherhood does not 248 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: equal inherent goodness, and not wanting to be a mother 249 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: does not equal an inherent black thereof for women. What 250 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: about the many women who are unable to have children 251 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: most importantly to the film, and this is where Jurassic 252 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: World is really offensive. Women who choose to put their 253 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: careers first and or foremost are not doing it as 254 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: a coping mechanism for what is really lacking in their lives. 255 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure some are as are many men, but many 256 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: have a passion for their work, which they want to 257 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: put front and center, and that doesn't make them less 258 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: of a woman or less a part of the world 259 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: around her. While Ellie and Grant were discussing where their 260 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: children would be part of their future as an option, 261 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: Claire's being told she wants kids, that there is something 262 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: wrong with her for not feeling that way herself. Claire's 263 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: own sister tells her one day she'll settle down, as 264 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: if the life she has built is temporary, which might 265 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: be the clearest piece of evidence that this movie was 266 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: written by four men. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just 267 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: the the pressure throughout that she must want kids. There's 268 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: a several shots where she's looking at kids with sort 269 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: of a veiled belonging, which is a fine plot point. 270 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: But if you're if you're going to do it, where 271 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 1: in this like moral grounds of like she's bad because 272 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: she doesn't want that or might not want that, that's 273 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: not good. That's that's the issue. And it is very, 274 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: very very heavy handed. And how it paints that she 275 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: is just missing, she is lacking something, she's just not 276 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: complete and doesn't know it. That's one of the most 277 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: galling parts of it, I think, and I've heard that 278 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: as a single person too, of like oh you just 279 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: don't realize, so you just I don't know, and it's 280 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: annoying and incorrect. Here's another quote from The Mary Sue. 281 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: As Marlow Stern wrote in his rather accurate review for 282 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: The Daily Beast, the only character development we get in 283 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: this movie is quote a woman's evolution from an icy, cold, 284 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: selfish corporate shill into a considerate wife and mother, as 285 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: if to say, don't worry, guys, that shrill both lady 286 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: really just wants to find a sexist guy that will 287 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: teach her how to behave and awaken that biological clock. Sure, 288 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: her life's work is destroyed in hundredstead, but she got 289 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: a man who can give her that baby all women 290 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: really want. Yeah, it is. When I was researching this, 291 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: which again wasn't what I really intended when I started 292 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: this episode, but I did find a lot of articles 293 00:19:51,880 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: about that, in particular of in disaster movies, painting women 294 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: as they are this the cold business woman or the 295 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: kind woman who wants a baby, which when I was 296 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: thinking about it was like, yeah, I can think of 297 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: a lot of examples of that. And then I found 298 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: a lot of articles about all the dinosaurs are female 299 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: and men are the only ones who can tame them. 300 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: I think that's a separate episode, but that's interesting. And 301 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: then here is a quote from Media Owen, who's Chris 302 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: Pratt's character, knows no wrong. When a fly is buzzing 303 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: around Claire, Owen can slap it right out of the air. 304 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: While Claire gets nervous even being in a helicopter, Owen 305 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: rides a motorcycle neck and neck with velociraptors. Nothing scares Owen, 306 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: not even violent man eating dinosaurs because he is a 307 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: manly man. There's certainly nothing wrong with Claire's fear in 308 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: the face of a potential death via dinosaur, but her 309 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: fear is not used to create a sense of realism 310 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: or to pull the audience in. It's used to show 311 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: how heroic Owen is. Throughout the film, Claire is mostly 312 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: Owen's foil, and damn he looks good by comparison. In 313 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: one moment of the film, Owen is in need of 314 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: rescuing from a pterodactyl. Claire saves him by shooting said 315 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: flying reptile. We cheer because Claire reversed the roles and 316 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: saved him. However, this empowering moment is short lived, and 317 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean very short lived. After being saved, Owen rises 318 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: to his feet and immediately kisses Claire as she's preparing 319 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: to say something. This move allows him to both assert 320 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: and regain power and control. Claire is reduced to a 321 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,719 Speaker 1: blushing and embarrassed girl. Within seconds, Owen takes back his 322 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: gun and retakes his role as the alpha of the group. 323 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting because in this very 324 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: same article they point out that again this can be 325 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: done well like it can be done where you have, 326 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: in one way or another, kind of the the woman 327 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: who's never been in the jungle and the guy who 328 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: knows everything about the jungle. But the key to it 329 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: is that they're learning from each other, and you're not 330 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: necessarily making one more the butt of the joke than 331 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: the other. She's clear, and this is consistently the butt 332 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: of the joke. We're supposed to mock her, like, oh, 333 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: she's never gotten dirty before, all of these kinds of things. 334 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: And again, that can be funny, like that, that can be. 335 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: But if it's done in sort of this very superficial 336 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: sexist way and meant to make the male character look 337 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: way better, then that's the problem. As I thought this 338 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: was interesting, I hadn't really thought about this, but I 339 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: found this quote from Refinery twenty nine. The original Jurassic 340 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: Park stands out among action films largely because its protagonists 341 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: weren't regular action heroes. They were scientists, cool ones, sure, 342 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: but not the kind of people you would expect to 343 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: be running around to juggle fighting off massive and dangerous creatures. 344 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: And what's more, they didn't so much solve the problem 345 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: with violence as they deduced a creative solution and implemented it. 346 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Goldbloom may have reached peak Internet icon status in 347 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, but can you imagine him holding up an 348 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: action franchise a la Bruce Willis Sam Neil has kind 349 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: of a rugged appeal, but he's not rambo. He's not macho. 350 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: If anything, he's a nerd who's just so excited to 351 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: be around his long lost monsters, and he and Ellie 352 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: were equal and professional partners above anything else. Now fast 353 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: forward to Jurassic World, and our hero looks very different, 354 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: like one hundred pounds of muscle different. Owen Grady is 355 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: a former marine turned dinosaur trainer who, as we see 356 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: in the beginning of Fallen Kingdom, enjoys building himself log 357 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 1: cabins and living out of his car. He's the kind 358 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: of hero who needs a love interest in order to 359 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: shine to redeem him as a hulky man with a 360 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: heart of gold. Every shot of him is meant to 361 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: emphasize how good he looks in his very fitted pants. 362 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: We're supposed to admire his muscular arms, his ability to 363 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: ride motorcycles alongside raptors, his rough stuble, not his intellect. 364 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: I think that's a good point because a lot of 365 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: the things that have really resonated with me when I 366 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: look back, it's not the like I do love a 367 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: superhero movie. You don't get me wrong, you all know that, 368 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: But when it comes to this, I do like when 369 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: it's not your super bulky, traditional stereotypical man who is 370 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: the hero. I like when it's scientists who are thrown 371 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: in this situation, are or whatever it is. And it 372 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: did kind of flip it where he's definitely the hero, 373 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: she is the villain. And when you talk about like 374 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: we briefly discussed John Hammond in the original Jurassic Park, 375 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: who we sympathize with, who is humanized, there has been 376 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: some conversation about whether or not he should have been, 377 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: but he was. And Claire, who's sort of assuming that 378 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: role in this one, is very much not very much 379 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: or not and doesn't have a satisfying redemptive arc. I 380 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: would say she does do in the in the sequels, 381 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: she does do some things, but it doesn't feel This 382 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: could go back to the writing, but it just feels like, well, 383 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: why did you do that? Then? If now we're having 384 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: to solve that's a whole different thing. That's a whole 385 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: different podcasts. But yeah, just the different treatments we got 386 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: in the first of the Jurassic World series versus the 387 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: first of the Jurassic Park series of John Hammond versus 388 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: Claire is quite different. But yes, this brings us to 389 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sea, which I really did not think I 390 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: was going to find anything written about this, but I 391 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: did listeners. So, as I discussed recently in a recent classic, 392 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: I got this headline show up in my feed that 393 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: there was a petition for the original ending of Deep 394 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: Blue Sea to come out. If you haven't seen it, yeah, 395 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: it's not very good, but I enjoy it. It's about 396 00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: a woman named Susan who is trying to cure Alzheimer's 397 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: and for some movie science reason, that means experimenting on 398 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: sharks and their brains in particular, and of course it 399 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: goes wrong, and ultimately it culminates in a lot of 400 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: people dying in their team, and then her sacrificing herself 401 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: and dying. And I always thought the ending was sort 402 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: of off. I was always like, huh, I feels a 403 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: little out of left field. It turns out I was 404 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: onto something, because in the original ending, she survives, she 405 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: has to kill the shark herself, and she does, and 406 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: it's much more of a redemptive like I realized my mistake. 407 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: I will take care of it, as opposed to her 408 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: dying in this way, which was pretty graphic, and she 409 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: doesn't have like I feel, going back to what I 410 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: said at the top, when I'm talking about like get 411 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: redemption and then you die, it's not that because I 412 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: feel like with the men I'm thinking of when I 413 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: think of that had a long time to get that redemption, 414 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: like three movies at least, she did not have that. 415 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: So it was she just kind of died and very unceremoniously. 416 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: No one seemed to care. Uh. But the director said 417 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: the reason they changed the ending was because the audience 418 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: was like, no, that has to die, and that's the 419 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: inspiration of this whole episode. So I do have some 420 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,239 Speaker 1: quotes about this. Here is one from Girl Type. In 421 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: the film, doctor Susan McAllister, played by white British actress 422 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: Saffron Burrows, develops a cure for Alzheimer's disease using the 423 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: chemicals in the brains of genetically altered giant sharks. Burrows 424 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: possesses fashion model looks and seeing the obvious candidate for 425 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: romantic subplot with Carter Blake played by white actor Thomas Jane, 426 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: the shark wrangler with the cowboy attitude and boyish good looks. However, 427 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: she turns down his friendly offer to share beer, saying primly, 428 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,239 Speaker 1: it's all worked for me, Carter. Susan's sexual reluctance has 429 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: been established, and the film goes on to characterize her 430 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: as frigid, cold, and calculating. Welcome to my parlor, she 431 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: says coldly when everyone enters her laboratory. Susan is a 432 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: black widow, a spider woman close to being villainized simply 433 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: because she is an ambitious scientist and isn't attracted to 434 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: the leading man. And this essay was really interesting because 435 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: it broke down a lot of a lot of the 436 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: pieces of this movie. But one of the other things 437 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: was the other woman who's in this group, because the 438 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,239 Speaker 1: main group just had two women, Janis, and Janice. Of 439 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: course blame Susan. So here's a quote, you stupid, she 440 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: cries at Susan, setting up their oppositional relationships within the film. 441 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: These two character represent a dichotomy of femininity, powerful unfeeling 442 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: an over emotional weak victim, which is something we see 443 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: a lot. I often think of alien when I think 444 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: of this psychotomy, but it also goes back to what 445 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, that that seems to be maybe 446 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: not quite the same. But your business woman ice cream 447 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: and your loving mother, like those are your two options, 448 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: which one, so the quote goes on. The next to 449 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: go is Janice, who by this time is a total 450 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: basket case. She falls off a ladder and into the water, 451 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: thinks to weak arm muscles, and splashes around, screaming for 452 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: Carter to save her. She is suddenly jerked under the 453 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: water by a shark, and the rest of the gang 454 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: momentarily mourns her loss. Then she rises up again, arms 455 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: outstretched in a weirdly graceful pose like a synchronized swimmer. 456 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: Her legs are wrapped in an equally posed way around 457 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: the shark's vertical snout, but its jaws are locked over 458 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: her crotch. Janie screams and bleeds and gouts, but stays 459 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: carefully positioned like a ballet dancer as the shark attacks 460 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: her between the legs. Amazingly, the shot of her emerging 461 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: from the water like this is shown twice, but once 462 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: from the side so we can see where she has 463 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: been bitten, and again from above so we can see 464 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: her anguished face, slow mow bobbing breasts, and the shark's 465 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: teeth locked over her pelvic area. Needless to say, I 466 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: was astounded and disturbed by this image. Not only are 467 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: the women's helplessness, weakness, and hysteria treated as normal feminine characteristics, 468 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: but she dies as a prettily posed sex object. The 469 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: shark gruesomely attacks her vagina, her biological difference from men, 470 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: and the film glories in the image with elaborate camera work, 471 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: slow motion, and repeated shots. In a later scene, the 472 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: gang explores janisis quarters, looking for batteries for their flashlight. 473 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: Jan was a healthy girl. Something in here has to 474 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: run on batteries, says secondary white male Scoggins, the goofy 475 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: member of the gang. Where would a girl keep her 476 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: vibrator noise thing? I was outraged that even in death, 477 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: Janie got reduced to a dirty joke, reduced to nothing 478 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: but her vagina yep, yep. And I did want to 479 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: come one day when Samantha's better, I'd want to come 480 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: back to this of the history of in disaster, movies, 481 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: movies and horror movies in general, of women getting consumed 482 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: by monsters while naked or somehow skimpily cloud or are 483 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: sexy or something like that, and what that says. But 484 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: in the meantime, the quote continues, Susan is also degraded sexually. 485 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: She gets trapped by a shark and has to electrocute 486 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: it with a nearby clump of wires. She strips to 487 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: her underwear and stands on her wetsuit to insulate herself 488 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: from the electrical charge. Shivering and pissed off, she cowers 489 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: in her tiny white bra and panties as a flailing 490 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: shark flames and sparks go everywhere. The scene may be 491 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: an homage to Sigourney Weaver's stripp teas at the end 492 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: of Alien, but in this case I was especially angered. 493 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: Susan is forced to strip to survive. It says if 494 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: the movie is punishing her for her earlier denial of 495 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: Carter and gloating while she suffers, wet and miserable, and 496 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: that I will admit, as much as I have had 497 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: my questions of this movie, which I don't know how 498 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: to feel about, I always thought, you know, oh they 499 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: feel like they have to put in this scene, very 500 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: degraded scene of the woman stripping down, But that is 501 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: a good point that she turned down and this offer 502 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: from your hot action hero guy, and now here she 503 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: is almost punishment and then going to the ending. So 504 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: at this point we've got three survivors from the main group. 505 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: We've got ll Cool j the Action hero guy and Susan, 506 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: and the shark is trying to get free, and they're like, 507 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: we cannot let this shark free. And Action Hero Guy 508 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: jumps in the water, but the shark is coming for him. 509 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: He jumps in the water to like, I don't know 510 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: stuff the shark, and Susan decides she is going to 511 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: draw the shark's attention, so she cuts her hand and 512 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: says come to mama and jumps in the water. And 513 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: here is our final quote about that. The shark her 514 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: regards her blankly for a long moment and then gobbles 515 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: her up in three very separate floody bites. The film 516 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: pauses deliberately before picking off Susan, and the subsequent destruction 517 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: of the shark is like an anti climactic afterthought. When 518 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: Preach Cool Jay's character fires a lethal explosive charge, he whispers, 519 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: this is for Scoggins. Scoggins, Susan is the one who 520 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: sacrificed her life to help kill the shark. Scoggins was 521 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: comic relief for Pete's sake. Yet Susan doesn't even get 522 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: a hero's memorial. She's nothing but fish food to the 523 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: sharks and her companions. I felt cheated by Susan's death 524 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: and saddened by how little the surviving characters cared about her. 525 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that speaks to what we've been 526 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: talking about, is she wasn't very fleshed out. She wasn't 527 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: given a lot of moments for sympathy or redemption, where 528 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: as a lot of male characters like John Hammond were are. 529 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: But it also is a very very fair point that 530 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: the shark's death is seemingly lesser than her death, Like 531 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: she deserved to die more than that shark. And you 532 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: can make your arguments about that because she was, you know, 533 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: ethically doing these experiments on sharks that that caused this 534 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: whole thing. But she did want to make amends and 535 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: she was trying to And the fact that we're more 536 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: supposed to be more jubilant that she died rather than 537 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: this shark is not the most it's not the most 538 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: fun thought I and I do again. I say this 539 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: as someone who really doesn't get joy out of death 540 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: in a lot of media, but uh, this is always 541 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: always stuck out to me. And when I read that headline, 542 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: like I said in that classic where I first mentioned this, 543 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: I was like I knew it. I knew it just 544 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: fell off and I, uh, yeah, I had forgotten that 545 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: they that they sort of just immediately forget she died, 546 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: like oh yeah, this is Fris Coggins. So her death 547 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: felt kind of meaningless. All it was was like, yeah, 548 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: she deserved to die, Let's move on. And I do 549 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: think there is a conversation to be had about you know, 550 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: responsibility and her taking responsibility for what she did. But 551 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: I just feel very strongly this was punishing an ambitious 552 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: woman who wasn't into the lead man, and so we 553 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: were supposed to revel in it as opposed to all 554 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: the redemptive arcs we grant men and who are more 555 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 1: fleshed out in terms of character. But yeah, it's also 556 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: I know some of you are probably scratching your red 557 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: and like, why are we talking so much about this 558 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: bad Shark movie. But it matters. The definitely consume matters, 559 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: and I was curious, so I was pretty sure I 560 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 1: knew why, but I was curious why they changed the ending. 561 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: When I read it, I was like, oh, yep, that 562 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: makes total sense that the audience were like, yeah, just 563 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: kill her. We don't want to have to deal with her, 564 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: and you ought to like her. I get a lot 565 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: of parts she wasn't very likable, but that's part of 566 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: the issue. I don't know, maybe I'm talking to myself 567 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: in circles. I do have other episodes coming up about 568 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: Jurassic Park and some other disaster things disaster movies. But 569 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: in the meantime, please let me know if you have 570 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: any thoughts on this. I don't know if I'm the 571 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: only one out there, clearly not. I can't believe I've 572 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: found some great essays about it, but I would love 573 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 1: to hear from all of you. Hopefully, Samantha, we miss you. 574 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: I don't know if y'all ever listen to this. I 575 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: feel again, I feel like I'm a child who's gotten 576 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: free and can do whatever I want. But we hope 577 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: you feel better soon, and yes, listeners, in the meantime, 578 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: you can contact us. Our email is Stephanidia Momsteff at 579 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at 580 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast and on Instagram and TikTok at steffan 581 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: Never Told You. We have a tea public store. You 582 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: can get merchandise there. We have a book you can 583 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: get it at stuff you Should Read Books dot com. 584 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: Thanks is alois to our super producer Christina, our executive 585 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey, And thanks to you 586 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I'll Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. 587 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check 588 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: out the Heart Radio Apple podcast or if you listen 589 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows