1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,399 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: This week's Thursday Therapy, we have Karina Killcoin. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 3: So. 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: She is a former trial lawyer who specialized in criminal defense, 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: including a complex white collar and civil litigation, but now 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: she passionately shares her own personal story of trauma and healing. 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: She's got a book out called Rise Above, the story 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: Free yourself from past trauma and create the life you want. 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 4: Let's get her on. 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: Hi, Hey, Karna, how are you. I'm good, Thank you, 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: how are you great? We're excited to have you on. 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: We were reading your bio before you came on. I 13 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: was like, oh, like, man, there's just like heavy, heavy, heavy, 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: and then obviously your book. I love what you're doing 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: now using your past trauma to now create the life 16 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: that you want. And you know you wrote this book, 17 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: and so what we'll to start with, can you fill 18 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: in our audience kind of the cliff notes of your upbringing, 19 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: because it's it's a lot. It's heavy, Yeah, it is. 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 3: So when I was about twelve, my father got sentenced 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 3: to the federal penitentiary and he left behind me and 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 3: my two younger siblings and my mother, who suffered some 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: from some mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, and manic episodes. 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 3: And she didn't handle the stress and the pressure very 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 3: well of you know, being left with the kids and responsibility. 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,919 Speaker 3: So she and I shifted roles and I started caring 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: for her. And we lived in a poverty stricken situation 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: after my father was gone, and I really had to 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: do a lot to survive, and that included, you know, 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: scraunging up change to buy food and asking strangers for 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: money to help buy food and pay bills, and we 32 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: would go without hot water and electricity. And I was, 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: you know, hell bent on escape, right to get away 34 00:01:58,440 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: from where I was. And when I was twenty four, 35 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: I graduate law school. Also at that same age, my 36 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: mother died of cancer. And by then she had had 37 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: my last brother, and he was only nine at the time, 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 3: so I adopted him and went on to raise him. 39 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: What kind of cancer did your mom have? Cervical? 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: Were you guys by that time? What was y'all's relationship like? 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't healed or repaired in any stretch 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: of the imagination. And I was really the one left 43 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: to take care of her. So even on you know, 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: her deathbed, it was me caring for her and we had, 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 3: you know, hospice come in. But she passed away in 46 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 3: my childhood bed, and there was a lot of unresolved issues, 47 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: especially on my end, that she wasn't really willing to 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: talk about even then, and it took me a long time, 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: you know, decades after she left for me to really 50 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: find forgiveness for her. 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: Well, you know, we talk a lot on this podcast 52 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: about our parents and we're all in our forties. 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: Well almost, sorry, kat, you got one month. 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna say, we're all in our forties, 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: and it's it's one thing where it's we've had challenging times, 56 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: especially with our moms, where we want them to kind 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: of see us and understand, but it's, I don't know, 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: it's almost like they don't they didn't do the work 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: maybe that or that we've done. So it's hard for 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: us to see and be on the same page. So 61 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: how do you go? Okay, I didn't get to say 62 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: these things to my mom, but I'm gonna do differently, 63 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: Like do you have kids? 64 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 4: You have a fur baby? 65 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: I have a fur baby, I have the brother that 66 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: I raised, and my husband has children. So I've been 67 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: I've known him a long time and I've been involved 68 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: in raising them, so I understand that you know the 69 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: mother component. And I will tell you that I think 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: some of this you know is generational, right. I think 71 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 3: you know, at some point, you know my mother, you know, 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: she was in this generation where you didn't process and 73 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: you didn't talk about and there was a lot of 74 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: shame about things. So I don't think that they knew 75 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: then what we know now, and I don't think that 76 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: they were as in tune to mental health and healing. 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 3: So I think that's one that's one thing. And I 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 3: would also say that my forgiveness for my mother came 79 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 3: with age and perspective, but it also came when I 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: found compassion for her and I understood her story. So 81 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: you know, I write a lot in the book about 82 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: this idea of multi generational transfer of trauma, right, And 83 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 3: so when I understood my mother's story that my mother 84 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: was never mothered. My mother's mother abandoned her and she 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: was a baby, she didn't know her mother, and her 86 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: father was an alcoholic, and she was raised until she 87 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: was twelve by her grandmother, who spoke no English. So 88 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: my mother had her own story and she didn't rise 89 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: above it. So for me to find forgiveness for her, 90 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 3: it took me finding compassion and empathy for her and 91 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 3: understanding that she too had a story. And so for me, 92 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 3: you know where does it stop? Well, I decided to 93 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: stop this multi generational transfer trauma because you know, when 94 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: I understand where I came from and I understand those 95 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: my people's stories, you know, I choose differently. I choose 96 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: self awareness. I choose self compassion. I choose you know, 97 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 3: reasoning and judgment and understanding what I had been through. 98 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: On one hand, rights as these are the facts of 99 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: what I've been through, but then also giving myself some 100 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 3: compassion for how I handled it right and lifting myself 101 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: up out of the shame of you know, what I 102 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: did wasn't shameful as a child asking people for money. 103 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: For a long time, I thought that was so shameful, right, 104 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: And now I have this compassion for myself, and that's 105 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: what really what I tried to teach and be an 106 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 3: example of to the children that I've been blessed to mother. 107 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 5: Do you feel like you kind of default back into 108 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 5: that like survival? I mean, when you're raised with that 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 5: kind of setting, the resilience level that you have is 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 5: like astronomical, and so we I would I share some 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 5: parts of your story a little bit, not nearly to 112 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 5: the degree, but I wasn't able to say my dad 113 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 5: and I never had the reckoning before he passed away. 114 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 5: I don't think that he would ever be able to 115 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 5: on this side hear what I have to say, truly. 116 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 5: But I wonder do you find yourself, I know, the 117 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 5: hard rewiring, like that deep detangling of how you handle 118 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 5: and like at rest, do you still feel that like 119 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 5: in survival flight or fight or do you feel like 120 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: you've kind of gotten that settled into like a piece 121 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 5: of Is there a sense of calmness now or do 122 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 5: you default back to that. 123 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: I definitely feel a sense of calmness now. But it 124 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 3: took me a long time. It took me years and 125 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: years of healing. And I call it a journey of 126 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 3: healing because that's exactly what it was. You know, it 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: was like two steps forward and one step back, or 128 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: one step forward two steps back because of what you're 129 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: talking about right when you're a child of trauma in 130 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: that way. And there's actually a really powerful quote and 131 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: one of the books that I cite in my book 132 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: Rise Above the Story, it's a Bruce Perry quote and 133 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 3: he says that children who are raised in these situations 134 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: are quote incubated in terror. Right. So it's like your 135 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 3: brain when you're that young doesn't understand what's happening. Your 136 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: full brain doesn't develop till you're in your twenties, right, 137 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: your mid twenties. And I talk a lot about the 138 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: science of healing in my book, and I distill a 139 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: lot of this complex brain science into one chapter in 140 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: the book because it was for me where I shifted 141 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: into healing is when I understood how my brain worked. 142 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: So to your question about you know, what do I 143 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 3: do and what is my default? My default is now 144 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 3: it is not fight or flight forever. For a long time, 145 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: for my whole life before this healing, it was for 146 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: sure the default. I even write about that in the book, 147 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: and I called it chicken Little mode, where I would 148 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: go around thinking that everything was bad, something bad was 149 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: going to happen, this guy was going to fall, everything 150 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 3: was not good. And it took me a long time 151 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: to get out of that mode. And that's all about 152 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: resetting and understanding and developing this self awareness of what 153 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: your brain is doing, but also for me, it was 154 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: like an entire physical, spiritual mental healing. And that's you know, 155 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 3: all the things that I include in the book, which 156 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: are you know, all the practices I tried, and the 157 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 3: meditations I did, and the journaling I did, and the 158 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: different modalities of therapy I tried. Right, So it has 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: been a long road, but I want people to know 160 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: this who are listening, Like, it is possible to reset 161 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: your default setting? It absolutely is. 162 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 4: So have you ever heard of Sarah set? 163 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:02,599 Speaker 3: No? 164 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm doing it next week. So I've had 165 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: some past PTSD stuff where it keeps coming up in 166 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: therapy right where my response goes to the fight or flight. 167 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: My therapist, you know, we've done the EMDR, we've done 168 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: all the things, and she's like, I really want you 169 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: to try Sarah set. 170 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 4: So I'm starting. 171 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: It was supposed to be when the whole winter snowstorm 172 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: thing happened, but I had to reschedule to the following week. 173 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: So basically what it is is you go there and 174 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: it's all about resetting your nervous system right in your brain. 175 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: So it's like your brain can't change unless your brain 176 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: sees itself. So it's you go there, it's every day 177 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: for four days and then you go back. I think 178 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: it's like two weeks after that. But you listen to 179 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: these like waves and they put these things on your 180 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: head essentially, and then your brain sees what the brain 181 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: kind of needs to change. And it's this whole like 182 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 2: science for changing your brain and helping you know, anxiety 183 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: or depression or those things that where there's a blockage 184 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: in your in your brain. It's like you can't change 185 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: the brain unless your brain sees what's the problem in 186 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: So interest heard of that, But yeah, I'm like I'm 187 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: at this moment, I'll do anything. 188 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 4: You know what I mean, and like like block me 189 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 4: up in something and. 190 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: Me too, and and thank you for telling me, because 191 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: I do love to go and try all these things. 192 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 4: Sorry. 193 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: Uses brain initiated sound to relax the brain and allow 194 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: it to reset, restore harmony, and free the mind from 195 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: a freeze or fight or flight state. So yeah, anyways, 196 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: go ahead. 197 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean it's interesting. It's kind of kind 198 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 3: of taken like like old school like sound therapy, right 199 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 3: and all this stuff, and like applying in a different way, 200 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: which is what I was, which was what my point 201 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: was going to be is that I love that there's 202 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: this evolution right of trauma therapy that comes from some 203 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: of these old, you know, merited, you know, old school 204 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: kind of modalities, and then they just kind of keep 205 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: adding on and building on and trying them. And that's 206 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 3: one of the things that I really talk about in 207 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 3: the book and I really believe in, is having the 208 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 3: courage to try things. I feel like healing is kind 209 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 3: of like a dim sum menu, right, It doesn't have 210 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 3: to just traditional therapy. It can be a traditional therapy 211 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: for sure has value, but it's also other can be 212 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 3: other things, and I just think that, you know, having 213 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: the courage to sometimes try those other modalities can be 214 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: really helpful. 215 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask, so, now that you 216 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: say that you're essentially in a healed spot, do you 217 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: still deal with the trauma of you know, in therapy 218 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: or do you feel like you're kind of past dealing 219 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: with that trauma, like you've kind of gotten past it? 220 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: Or is that something that you think that you'll always 221 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: have to kind of deal with because I know, Danna, 222 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: like you said, you feel like you can't get past it. 223 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 6: Is it something you ever get past? 224 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Or are you always kind of dealing with that trauma, 225 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: even if you feel like you've gotten to a healed spot. 226 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 6: Does that make sense? 227 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: Oh? 228 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I wouldn't say that I feel that I'm 229 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 3: in a healed spot. I feel like I'm in a 230 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: healing spot. And I and I recognize that because there 231 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: are there are always always You can look at them 232 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: as setbacks or you could look at them as opportunities 233 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: to learn more about yourself and uncover another layer. And 234 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 3: so I would say that for me, there is this 235 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: sense of, you know, most days I feel really good, 236 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 3: and yes, do I think about those past memories. Of 237 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 3: course they still pop up, but I find what happens 238 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 3: for me is is that they don't have the emotional 239 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 3: charge that they used to. But then I do find 240 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: that there are triggers, right, and also this idea of 241 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: again the self awareness of being aware of typically what 242 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: my triggers are. You know, I still have triggers around 243 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 3: the sense of like abandonment, right. That was a huge 244 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: story for me in my youth right and all the 245 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: way up until like my early twenties. So you know, 246 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 3: like when you have these triggers, being aware of what 247 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: they are and backing out of a situation for me 248 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: is kind of what works and processing the feeling and 249 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: understanding where it's coming from, and that yes, I still 250 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 3: I still go to therapy, and when I do, I 251 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: have a log of what's been bothering me. Right, I'm 252 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 3: a big proponent of therapy, and I'm a big proponent 253 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: of working your therapy. Right, there's none of this like 254 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure your experience experiences too. Like you 255 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 3: don't just go in and like then they tell you 256 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: and then you go, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. 257 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 3: I feel good. It's like you are actually healing yourself 258 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: and they are guiding you or offering you something. So 259 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: I'm a big proponent of going into therapy and being 260 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 3: very honest about what has been going on with me 261 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 3: and talking through that and then you know, waiting for maybe. 262 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 6: Like some insight. 263 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 3: But I go in prepared and I leave knowing that 264 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 3: I still have work to do when I leave that office. 265 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: What are some of your biggest tips in the book, 266 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: maybe around abandonment or past trauma that people that are 267 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 2: listening can go, oh, I really want to you know, 268 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: know more about that and dig it more into that 269 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: tip that you give. 270 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: So the book is really a guidebook, right. I wrote 271 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: it because I wrote it in the way I wrote 272 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: it because I felt so overwhelmed at the thought of healing, 273 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: and I didn't know where to start. And I was 274 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 3: a grown adult with a successful career, and I didn't 275 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: know what to do or where to go or how 276 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 3: to start. So what I wanted to do in this 277 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: book was create a guidebook. And I broke down really 278 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: what I think these tips are talking about into like 279 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: a three step formula, and that is really like understanding. 280 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: The first one is acknowledging your trauma and the story 281 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 3: that you've written about yourself because of it. And two 282 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: is the second step is releasing releasing your story. And 283 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 3: this was like so deep for me, this level of healing, 284 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: because it involved so much. It was like all of 285 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 3: my old childhood stuff, all that inner child angst I 286 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: had in rage and resentment and anger that I was 287 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: never allowed to express as a child. So it was 288 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 3: a lot of that. And it was the forgiveness component, right, 289 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: this idea of like forgiving others, which is really really hard, 290 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: but also forgiving myself because if you're a trauma survivor, 291 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: I mean kind of the default of that is, we 292 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: somehow blame ourselves for things that happen. I did that, 293 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: I know for sure, and so I really get into 294 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: some really good ways of how to do that and 295 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: finding you know, connection back with that inner child and 296 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 3: like really understanding We talked about this earlier, this compassion 297 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: idea too, about like who you're trying to forgive. And 298 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: then the last step is releasing the story. And that's 299 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: all about flipping the script on your story, you know, 300 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: finding some kind of gratitude or a silver lining in 301 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: what happened, which then dovetailed so perfectly for me into 302 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 3: finding real self love. I mean, if you come from 303 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 3: a childhood of trauma like I did, and like a 304 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: lot of people out there listening, you're not You're not 305 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 3: incubated and unconditional love. You don't know what that is. 306 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: You're not you're not nurtured in self esteem or self confidence. 307 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 3: So figuring out how to get on that path of 308 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: really understanding how to love yourself and what that means 309 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 3: is you know, a big, a big, a big part 310 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: of healing. 311 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: Can I ask, and I don't know if you talk 312 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: about this in the book or not, but do you 313 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: touch on your relationship with your dad in the book. 314 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: Yes, well, I talk a lot about my reason. 315 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 4: Is he still with us? 316 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: He is? 317 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 4: Is he still in jail? 318 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: No? Okay, have you guys been able to talk or 319 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: is there a relationship there? 320 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: There? We had a moment after my mother died where 321 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: we had some conversation about the past, and I've explained 322 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: how I felt and I saw him. It was interesting, 323 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: I had it was easier for me to find compassion 324 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 3: and forgiveness for my father than it was for my mother. 325 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 3: But there I would say that there is a lot 326 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 3: about him, and a lot about a relationship, and a 327 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: lot about who he is and who I am, and 328 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 3: the toxicity of it all that I choose not to 329 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: have a relationship with him. 330 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 2: There's something about that incarcerated piece, because I had a 331 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: former abuser that was in jail for eight plus years, 332 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 2: and there was that weird like, you know, he's there, 333 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: but you can't have a relationship. It was a very 334 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: strange thing. I remember writing him a letter and then 335 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: going like I have to stop this because now this 336 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: is going to be a weird trauma bonding with him 337 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: now in like prison or something. 338 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 3: So I. 339 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: Never well, I actually I did, but I never saw 340 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: him after he got out, but I did talk to 341 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: him on the phone very briefly. But I just remember 342 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: that being just like awful as well. So I just wondered, 343 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: like how that conversation went. 344 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so, it's so interesting you talk about that, 345 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 3: that kind of thick, emotional, you know, realm of around 346 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 3: the around incarceration. Because I was so ashamed of that, right, 347 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: I would go through my you know, from you know, 348 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: twelve on and I wouldn't tell anybody, right, it was 349 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 3: so embarrassing to me. And you know, it wasn't until 350 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 3: years later that I found out that like one in 351 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: five people has had a parent incarcerated. 352 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 4: But at the real life. 353 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So at the time though, I didn't understand that, right, 354 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: it's child brain stuff and what you're going through. But 355 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 3: this idea around what like incarceration, what that means. And 356 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 3: I remember so many different moments of you know, him 357 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: trying to to call the house, and you know, after 358 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 3: a while, my mom didn't want to hear it, so 359 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 3: she'd take the phone off the hook, right, and I 360 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: would think, oh my gosh, like, who's he going to call? 361 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: If he can't call us? It was like even though 362 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: I understood that he did something wrong right, something wrong 363 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: to the effect of like he broke a lawn and 364 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 3: he had to go to prison, there were still parts 365 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 3: of me, at even at a young age, that felt 366 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 3: so much compassion for him, Like I and my dad 367 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 3: was like, you know, like this strong, physically strong man, 368 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: and and he was, you know, a hard working businessman, 369 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 3: and he did you know, he checked some boxes that 370 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 3: were that were you know, that had value and that 371 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 3: had character and integrity, and then then there were other 372 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: things he did that were so so outrageously wrong. But 373 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 3: this idea of him being in prison, I remember most 374 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 3: physically though, when he got out, and I share this 375 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: in the book, that he showed up at our house 376 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: and we hadn't seen him, you know, in a while, 377 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 3: and my mother was so cold to him, and he 378 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: needed money, like he just needed money, so you know, 379 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: I have nothing, like I just got I have nothing, right, 380 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 3: and she she didn't even really offer him anything. And 381 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 3: I remember looking at him and feeling so sad and 382 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 3: like I wish I had money to give him, because 383 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 3: to see my father in this position or like he 384 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 3: had nothing, was so striking to me because I had 385 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: always known my father as somebody who you know, would 386 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 3: go out in the world, and he was very good 387 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: at making money. He was very shrewd and conniving, and 388 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: I sometimes even called him a hustler. But to see 389 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 3: him in this, like this state of weakness was just 390 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: so overwhelming to me. And I carried that around with 391 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 3: me for a long time and it really affected, like, 392 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 3: as you can imagine my story about money, right, Like, 393 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 3: when you're raised in a house like that, it's kind 394 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 3: of interesting about your perspective on money and poverty and 395 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 3: you know what money gets, and so it's just really 396 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 3: interesting what his incarceration did to me, you know, mentally 397 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 3: and emotionally. 398 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting too how you said you have 399 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: a little bit more forgiveness for your for your dad 400 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: over your mom, and that's just and I sit here 401 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: and I'm like, even though your dad was I know, 402 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: even though your dad had his issues, and you know, 403 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: you have you have a great this is what I know. 404 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: You have a great dad, right, And so at first 405 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: and then I look at mine and I'm kind of 406 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 2: sitting here like all right, yeah, I at first I 407 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: was very angry, but as I got older and my 408 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 2: resentment goes towards my mom, and it you know, same 409 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: with you, where I think maybe it started it with 410 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 2: your dad but then shifted to your mom, and then 411 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 2: I know you have your resentments, and so it's interesting 412 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: how we're I don't I don't know why, but what 413 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 2: is that piece? Is it because we're angry that they're 414 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: not the mother that we wanted or expected or or 415 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: should have had or deserved. 416 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: Or another perspective on that is I always blamed my 417 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: mom growing. 418 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 6: Up because she was obviously. 419 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: As I've gotten older, even though my dad is a 420 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: great man and he's whatever, I can now see where 421 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: he also went wrong. So I don't know if maybe 422 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: it's we just get older and we start to see 423 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: and understand more to where I don't just blame her anymore. 424 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 4: Well, I wondered that I was like my switch with 425 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: my dad. Yeah, I actually don't blame you. 426 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 6: I think they did the obvious. 427 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and so it was just so easy 428 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: to just blame me, yeah, and then blame and then like. 429 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 6: But he was perfect or she was perfect, blah blah blah. 430 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: But then you start seeing, like when you get to 431 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: be an adult, you're like, wait a minute, Like there 432 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: were things. 433 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 6: There's other things. It's not just them. 434 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 4: Well that was gonna be. 435 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 5: My question is is there any insight in this healing 436 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 5: journey that you can share for specifically? I know, like 437 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 5: Janna and I feel that like we're very I I 438 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 5: found my dad once. I can identify that my dad 439 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 5: was a broken kid that just didn't get loved and 440 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 5: heard and seen. And for some reason, I he is 441 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 5: forever like eight years old in my mind now and 442 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 5: that's where he lives. And I was able to move forward, 443 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 5: not easily, but like with a lot less heaviness. 444 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 4: You know, Can we just go back to real fast? 445 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: Remember when my dad came to the wind Down, I 446 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: was like, he will come back in the backstage and 447 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: he will start playing guitar. But he is the eight 448 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: year old little boy that didn't get the love from 449 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: his dad that said, oh, you sound so great on 450 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: the guitar. He literally he will come in after. 451 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 4: He won't say we. 452 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 2: Did good, but he'll come in and he'll pick up 453 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: the guitar and he'll start about the guitar will be 454 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: about him because he needs that eight year old little 455 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: boy needs my grandpa Martin's love. 456 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 4: You know what I mean? 457 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 5: You literally like she she mapped it out and then 458 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 5: and then it was like a scene and he entered 459 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 5: stage right, and I was like, and there he is, okay. 460 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 4: And now he's playing a song. Yeah, you know what 461 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 4: I mean. 462 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 5: Do you think that have you found anything that like 463 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,239 Speaker 5: maybe would be helpful for people that are in all 464 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 5: of our situations where it's like, why do you think 465 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 5: we can can we can find the compassion? Maybe for 466 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 5: the men, say, just because the three of us seem 467 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 5: to have that in common and not for our mothers. 468 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 5: Is it that we are the same gender, we know 469 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 5: the walk, we're doing the work. We feel like, I 470 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 5: don't know what it is, but I am I'm in 471 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 5: that right now. I'm in that season of like trying 472 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 5: to find this deep compassion and like coming up a 473 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 5: little empty sometimes. If I'm really honest with. 474 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: You, Yeah, well, I will say from my perspective that 475 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 3: it was more challenging because to me, I felt that 476 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 3: my mother was supposed to be my protector and I 477 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: put a lot of that on her. And I don't 478 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 3: know necessarily that that's their overall. I mean, I just 479 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: feel like in my situation in my childhood, it was 480 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: that it was very traditional in that my mother stayed 481 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: home and my father went to work, right, So I 482 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 3: felt like, oh, my mother's supposed to be there. So 483 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 3: in my mind as it evolved, I felt like, oh, 484 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: she's supposed to be from what I understand or what 485 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 3: I know, she's my mom. She's supposed to be protecting me, right, 486 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: And then this I had this massive role reversal with 487 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 3: her where I was taking care of her at a 488 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 3: young age and not being cared for or mothered. So 489 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 3: I think that I feel like for me, what happened 490 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: was I felt so betrayed. Is if I had her 491 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 3: on this pedestal of what I expected of her and 492 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 3: she didn't fulfill what I needed of her, And then 493 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: it just evolved into more and more resentment because then 494 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 3: it was, you know, oh, now she's now she's sick, 495 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: and now she's dying, and now she's going to leave 496 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 3: me with all this, you know, with more responsibility, and 497 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 3: I just couldn't find it. I couldn't find any softness 498 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 3: towards her. And so for me, I think that it 499 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 3: was just I was so caught up in being so 500 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 3: angry at her because I really wanted her to protect me. 501 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 3: I wanted her to do more right. I felt like 502 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 3: she could have done more, and so I held her 503 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 3: to a different standard than I held my father. 504 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, the care teaming piece I gain I too too. 505 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 2: For sure, to kind of wrap up someone that's listening 506 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: that obviously we all have traumas, and but what's one 507 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: hopeful thing that you want someone to get from this book. 508 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: I would say that number one thing I want people 509 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 3: to know is that they're not alone in their pain 510 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 3: or they're suffering. I feel like so many of us 511 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 3: kind of take it on the chin and we suppress 512 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: the trauma and our story. We don't talk about it, 513 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 3: we don't want to talk about it. Then we go 514 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: through life distracted, you know, family, this, this, this jobs, 515 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: you know, zoom calls. I feel like I want people 516 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: to know that they're not alone. You know, it's like 517 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: seventy percent of us are going to experience trauma in 518 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: our lifetime. That's a National Council for Mental Well Being statistic. 519 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 3: I bet it's hired, right. So I want people to 520 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: know they're not alone in that. And two, I want 521 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 3: them to know that it is never too late to 522 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: do the work right. Like I think a lot of 523 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: people too feel like, well, yeah, I've been carrying this 524 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 3: around for so long. I really don't know what else 525 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 3: to do about it. Well, the truth is is that 526 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 3: you know, nobody really does. It's overwhelming. So again, what 527 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 3: I really want to do is create take away that 528 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 3: overwhelm and create a safe space where people feel seen 529 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: and heard and a place where they can express what's 530 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 3: happened to them. You know, there's a lot of places 531 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 3: in this book with journal prompts and places to write, 532 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 3: and I feel like that beginning of kind of like 533 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: unearthing that is so important and valuable. And I will 534 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: say that a big, a big thing I've heard a 535 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 3: lot too from people, you know who have already read 536 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 3: the book, is that they do all this stuff and 537 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 3: I think, wow, you know, now I know what I 538 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: want to talk to my therapist about. You know, therapy 539 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 3: is expensive and it's hard to get into and then 540 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 3: you get in there and you're like, I don't know 541 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 3: if I trust this person. I don't know if I 542 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: want to get into it. You dance around it, you 543 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: talk about your relationships, you talk about your job, but 544 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 3: you don't really get into the you know, the deep wounds. Yeah, 545 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 3: I think it's so beautiful that you know, when you 546 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 3: can go into a therapist and say, wow, okay, it 547 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: was really these two things that happened to me, you know, 548 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: when I was twelve and twenty that kind of had 549 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 3: put me in this situation where you know, I'm dating 550 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 3: the same person over and over again, where I'm you know, 551 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 3: afraid to ask for a raise or you follow my dream, 552 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 3: or you know, there's all kinds of limiting stories we 553 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: tell ourselves. So it's like understanding what they are. I 554 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 3: think is so hopeful right to have this self awareness 555 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 3: of what happened and that there's a space for you 556 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 3: to heal it. 557 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 4: Yep, I love that well. 558 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: Karina, thank you so much for coming on everyone, please 559 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: please please go get her. Book is called a Rise 560 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: Above the Story for yourself from past trauma and create 561 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: the life you want because you do not deserve to 562 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: be stuck there. 563 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 4: You deserve to be free from it and heal and 564 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 4: have a beautiful life. And Karina, thank you so much 565 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 4: for sharing your story with us. 566 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.