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Speaker 1: Are you needing a safe space to learn how you

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Speaker 1: can get your mind right? Tune into Imani State of Mind,

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Speaker 1: a weekly podcast hosted by psychiatrists and TV personality doctor

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Speaker 1: Imani Walker and co host comedian Meg scoop Thomas, two

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Speaker 1: smart and successful women and mothers sharing their personal and

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Speaker 1: professional experiences to help normalize conversations about mental health. This

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Speaker 1: is not your average mental health show. Each week they

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Speaker 1: break down what's happening in news, pop culture, and their

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Speaker 1: very own experiences managing mental health. Together, you will laugh,

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Speaker 1: keep it real, and create a safe space where everyone

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Speaker 1: can get help with their issues. Nothing is off the table.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Imani Walker and Meg scoop Thomas discuss everything from

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Speaker 1: relationships with yourself, with your spouse, your parents, to the

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Speaker 1: realities of postpartum depression and anxiety. Do not forget to

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Speaker 1: take a deep breath, find your calm, and get into

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Speaker 1: Imani's State of Mind. With new episodes shopping every Friday

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Warning, this podcast contains spoilers

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Speaker 1: for Seahelthca episode seven, House of the Dragon episode six,

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Speaker 1: Rings of Power episodes five and six, so be warned

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Speaker 1: and be careful. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion. Welcome

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Speaker 1: ext vision on the Crooked Podcast Where We dived d

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Speaker 1: You've been to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 1: In this episode a pack to the Gills episode, we're

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Speaker 1: going to discuss the latest news Last of Us trailer,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of Marvel news, including some lots of mutant news,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to discuss the super fun She Hulk

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Speaker 1: episode seven. In the airlock, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: House of the Dragon episode six. We've got you're ask

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Speaker 1: the master questions and answers, and then we're going to

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Speaker 1: continue in the air lock with some Lord of the

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Speaker 1: Rings talk, big battle episode, celebrin Bore where you at

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Speaker 1: And of course if you want to jump around, check

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Speaker 1: the show notes for the time stamps ed joy me today.

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Speaker 1: She's the best. She's the number one fact checker of

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Speaker 1: all stuff related to comics. Don't you dare get a

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Speaker 1: comic creator name wrong? She is Rosie Night, Rosie. How

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Speaker 1: are you?

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Speaker 2: I just want people to be credited correctly.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think that's all.

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Speaker 2: We all make mistakes, but yeah, we all.

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Speaker 1: Make mistakes, but credit credit, write the names correct. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it first up in previously on the

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Speaker 1: Last of Us trailer has dropped. It comes to HBO

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Speaker 1: sometime in twenty twenty three, and this, of course is

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Speaker 1: an adaptation of the Naughty Dog Studios hit game The

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Speaker 1: Last of Us. It stars Pedro Pascal as Joel, the

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Speaker 1: grizzled survivor of the fall of mankind, who takes under

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Speaker 1: his wing Ellie played by Bellea Ramsey you know her

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Speaker 1: as Lehana Mormont from Game of Thrones, and together they

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Speaker 1: cross the ruined wasteland laden with clickers and other zombifide creatures,

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Speaker 1: not to mention killers of the human variety. This looks great.

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Speaker 1: We will dive into the Last of Us as a

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Speaker 1: property and as a story deeper in future episodes, but

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Speaker 1: this made me very excited for this show.

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Speaker 2: It looks so good. I think they've done the hardest

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Speaker 2: thing which it doesn't, which is to make it look

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Speaker 2: different to The Walking Dead, which is basically the definitive

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Speaker 2: zombie story of our generation. It looks brilliant. I love

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Speaker 2: the It got the balance right for me of the

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Speaker 2: focus on the scope of the world, the relationship between

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Speaker 2: Joel and Airy, and then the teasers of the clickers

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Speaker 2: and that one kind of final.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, looks really good, looks so good, I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: My one question is ed we were talking about this

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Speaker 1: in preview. For me, the Last of Us has the

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Speaker 1: most devastating ending in terms of a story beat, that

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Speaker 1: I've ever experienced in a video game. Others might disagree,

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Speaker 1: but for me it was it was really a gut

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Speaker 1: punch ending. We again, we'll discuss this more in depth

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Speaker 1: in later episodes. And I wonder how much. I wonder

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Speaker 1: how much the season will queue to the story of

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Speaker 1: the first game, if at all.

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Speaker 2: That I think is the biggest question. In my dream world.

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Speaker 2: That first game is like a perfect one season of

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Speaker 2: long form storytelling. But I think if they know what

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Speaker 2: they're doing, and this team of people making this is

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Speaker 2: like really legit, I would hope that the first season

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Speaker 2: ends the same way as the game. I think that

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Speaker 2: would be like a you're gonna win every emmy. Everyone

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Speaker 2: is gonna be talking about it because really, like millions

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Speaker 2: of people played this game and it was like a

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Speaker 2: cultural smash, but there are still millions and millions of

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Speaker 2: people who don't know how it ends. And I feel

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Speaker 2: like that ending would be like the episode everyone's talking about,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like the world of the Last of

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Speaker 2: Us is so expansive that if you wanted to continue

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Speaker 2: on and do a second season, you could do it

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Speaker 2: in many different ways even following that ending. So I

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Speaker 2: hope fingers crossed and we know people who played the

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Speaker 2: game know what we're talking about. I hope that they

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Speaker 2: they stick to that, and I hope they find a

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Speaker 2: way to land it because the thing that's so hard

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Speaker 2: about adapting video games, and we've had this conversation about

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Speaker 2: video game adaptations. Yeah, in those, especially in games like

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Speaker 2: The Last of Us, you are the one making the choices.

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Speaker 2: You are involved in the terrible things that happening or

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Speaker 2: the hard choices. So I'm really interested to see how

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Speaker 2: they can translate that emotional involvement into a TV show

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Speaker 2: where you're not actively making the characters do this.

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Speaker 1: That's what they have to do. That's gonna be the thing.

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Speaker 1: And to your point about The Walking Dead, a thing

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Speaker 1: that I think in terms of story that really sets

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Speaker 1: potentially sets this series apart from The Walking Dead. An

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Speaker 1: important way is it grapples directly with are we trying

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Speaker 1: to solve the problem of click? Are we trying to

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Speaker 1: cure this disease or not. The Walking dem really never

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Speaker 1: grappled with that. It was just like the secure in

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Speaker 1: That's life, That's reality. Now The Last of Us directly

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Speaker 1: takes on the question of if you could cure this,

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Speaker 1: if you could save the world, should you? Would you?

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Speaker 1: And what is the cost of that? And so I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to see what does it mean? What does

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Speaker 1: it mean? So I'm very excited about that. Okay, big

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Speaker 1: more whole news. Blade director Basimterrik has apparently no longer

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Speaker 1: associated with the project. This is from The Hollywood Reporter.

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Speaker 1: Marvel said in a statement to The Hollywood Reporter, due

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Speaker 1: to continued shift in our production schedule, Basama is no

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Speaker 1: longer moving forward as director of Blade, but we'll remain

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Speaker 1: an executive producer on the film. We appreciate Pasam's talent

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Speaker 1: and all the work he's done getting Blade to where

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Speaker 1: it is. And then Treik said in his own statement,

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Speaker 1: it's been an honor working with the wonderful folks at Marvel.

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Speaker 1: We were all to put together a killer cast and crew,

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Speaker 1: eager to see where the director takes the next film.

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Speaker 1: My takeaway from this is this is just this happens

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Speaker 1: a production shift. People in this industry are usually scheduled

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Speaker 1: back to back to back to back to back, and

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Speaker 1: if one thing moves, it's like a Jenga tower. Other

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Speaker 1: things have to move as well, and clearly they just

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Speaker 1: couldn't get the schedule right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've seen this happen in Marvel movies before.

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Speaker 2: Scott Derekson was supposed to make Yeah, Doctor Strange to

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Speaker 2: end up being Sam Ray and Me. So yeah, I'll

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Speaker 2: be very interested and excited to see what Basam does next.

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Speaker 2: And made a bunch of great off like Mobill Mowgli,

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Speaker 2: and I'll also be excited to see whoever ends up

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Speaker 2: joining this movie.

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Speaker 1: Recent Empire article on Wakanda Forever confirms that exactly what

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Speaker 1: we knew naym War as a mutant, we were right.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying right. I don't think a lot of

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Speaker 2: people didn't want to say name War as a mutant

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Speaker 2: because mutant is like a very heavily weighted word, but

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Speaker 2: we said it. We saw his little cute wings on

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Speaker 2: the back of his legs. And in this Empire article,

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Speaker 2: which by the way, has the most unbelievable cover this,

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Speaker 2: like Teal and purple cover. That's so beautiful. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 2: a mutinet.

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Speaker 1: I love to love it. And by the way, Naymar

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Speaker 1: played by Tenna Kuorta, the character designed the costuming. Oh

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Speaker 1: it's so good. Yeah, it's great. I am very, very

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Speaker 1: excited about this.

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Speaker 2: They also confirmed another thing that we talked about that

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Speaker 2: we thought could be the possibility, which is the reason

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Speaker 2: that Talakan, the space that Name or leads, is so

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Speaker 2: furious at Wakanda, is because by Wakanda announcing their existence

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Speaker 2: to the world, the world has now been made aware

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Speaker 2: that there are multiple secret societies, and that has then

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Speaker 2: put the Talikan in danger, and they are gonna come

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Speaker 2: out to protect themselves as the world tries to re

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Speaker 2: assume find vibranium, find these secret societies. So we were

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Speaker 2: right again, and then I can wait to see that,

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Speaker 2: and I can't wait to Name more. I love Name

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Speaker 2: More so much.

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Speaker 1: He's great, a wonderful, great character. Always comes down well,

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Speaker 1: usually comes down on the right side, but it does

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Speaker 1: it in a way all his own. Meanwhile, speaking of

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Speaker 1: secret places, Savage Land, Krakoa, where are you very excited

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Speaker 1: to I bet you we get another. We've already gotten

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Speaker 1: some Savage Land. I think, I bet you get I get,

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Speaker 1: I bet you we get more. Yeah, that was vibrnium

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Speaker 1: is there? There is exactly the only other places.

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Speaker 2: And I remember there was a there was some kind

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Speaker 2: of leak from a casting notification that said someone was

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Speaker 2: going to Antarctica to look for vibranium. So we can say,

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Speaker 2: I think we can say the Savage Land is probably

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Speaker 2: going to show up, in which case I will just

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Speaker 2: put it out there. That could be an X men's space,

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Speaker 2: that could be we could find a Savage Land rogue

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Speaker 2: or something iconic like that. So and also now that Marvel.

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Speaker 2: The thing that's really interesting about this to me is

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Speaker 2: there is not like a huge Kevin Feige approved quote

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Speaker 2: here about mutants. This is an aside the Empire just

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Speaker 2: includes in the article. Yeah he confirmed he as a mutant.

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Speaker 2: Call that to me says that and we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: this with she Hulk as well. Mutants are now just

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Speaker 2: in the MCU. This is the way they're going to

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Speaker 2: do it. And so I think we could see Wakanda

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Speaker 2: Forever become a sort of lightning rod for mutants in

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Speaker 2: the MCU.

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Speaker 1: It's a soft launch of mutants, which is very interesting.

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Speaker 1: The question is speaking of secret societies, are there if

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Speaker 1: mutants are just around, are there mutant secret societies like

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Speaker 1: a secret school in upstate New York or the hell

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Speaker 1: Fire Club, etc.

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Speaker 2: Or an underground group of morlocks?

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Speaker 1: Yes, you know, speaking of mutants in what is one

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Speaker 1: of the most effective social media lodges in recent revery.

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Speaker 1: It was announced this week that Hugh Jackman as Wolverine

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Speaker 1: is joining Deadpool three, which comes out of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds posted an announcement video on Twitter which is

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Speaker 1: very funny. Doesn't have any movie footage per se, but

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of like a scene in which Ryan

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Speaker 1: not as Deadpool and Hugh Jackman kind of as Wolverine

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Speaker 1: give you an idea of the chemistry that these two

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Speaker 1: characters are going to have in what is apparently a

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Speaker 1: road movie.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's what we think it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: So for a long time Ryan had talked about how

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Speaker 2: angry he was at Fox. In fact, there's a great

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Speaker 2: BBC interview with Ali Plumb where he says, you know,

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Speaker 2: on the poster to Deadpool two, it says from the

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Speaker 2: studio that killed Wolverine, and Ryan was like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: really angry about that because my dream was to do

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Speaker 2: a Deadpool Wolverine team up, you know, and it looks

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Speaker 2: like now that's going to happen. He had done a

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Speaker 2: tweet last year where he'd said, you know, if before

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Speaker 2: Disney bought Fox, Deapel three was going to be a

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Speaker 2: road trip between Deadpool and Logan Rahman style. So like,

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Speaker 2: from all different perspectives, I wouldn't be surprised if that's

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Speaker 2: what we're gonna get. Kevin Fagie knows a good idea

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Speaker 2: when he sees it. That's how the end is huge,

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Speaker 2: and it is going to be r rated and it

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Speaker 2: will be very interesting. You had a great thought in

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Speaker 2: like our just when we were just chatting, which was like, oh, Matt,

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Speaker 2: if we have Cea Logan as old Man logan that

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Speaker 2: leaves the door open for X twenty three and daph nicking.

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Speaker 1: Well, because here's the thing. It's apparent that they're going

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Speaker 1: to have to cart Hugh Jackman off the field. He's

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Speaker 1: going to be playing before he leaves Wolverine. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of talk about what do we

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Speaker 1: recast this, what do we do? A lot of the

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Speaker 1: you know, the you know, Patrick Sewart another one these

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Speaker 1: iconic actors who portrayed various mutants in the Fox versions

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Speaker 1: of these films. Do we recast for a new generation

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Speaker 1: for new movies. I think that there's a lane. If

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Speaker 1: they want to keep Wolverine as Hugh Jackman, you go

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Speaker 1: that route, right, Not well, obviously old man Logan died

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Speaker 1: in whatever timeline that was. But I think you keep

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Speaker 1: that kind of archetype of a character, this grizzled, obviously

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Speaker 1: older character who is more of a mentor figure. You know,

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Speaker 1: think Wolverine in the X Men comic book series, where

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Speaker 1: he's like the headmaster of the school, a more of

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Speaker 1: a teacher figure who's been through the wars. And then

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Speaker 1: for Wolverine proper, you could use you could use Laura

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Speaker 1: Slash x twenty three from the comics. In other words,

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Speaker 1: just take Daphne from the Logan she was so good,

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Speaker 1: she was so good, make her actual Wolverine dealing with

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Speaker 1: the Wolverine stuff of anger issues, what am I like

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Speaker 1: and have? You could have Logan like helping her through

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Speaker 1: all that. And it would make sense too, because, like

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Speaker 1: as we know in the comics, Logan's like two hundred

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Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, it had played a pivotal role in

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Speaker 1: the early Super Soldier program. You could do that, you

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Speaker 1: could still do that.

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Speaker 2: We know that that's going to be a big part

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Speaker 2: of what novels doing next with everyone they're bringing back.

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Speaker 2: I think that would be so cool and like, so

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Speaker 2: they released this second video that pretends it's going to

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Speaker 2: give you answers, but it doesn't. But one thing they

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Speaker 2: do that's really interesting at the beginning is that Ryan

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Speaker 2: has always talked about how he doesn't want to mess

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Speaker 2: with Logan because it's like a perfect movie, which is true.

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Speaker 2: So he basically was saying, oh, that Logan dies in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty nine, that's the year of that movie, and

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Speaker 2: this isn't going to touch that. So I like the

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Speaker 2: idea that it would like technically be set before, which

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Speaker 2: if it's in the MCU timeline, could work. It's like

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. It is some annoying thing that happened before.

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Speaker 2: I will also just put it out there. I had

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Speaker 2: always thought that the smartest thing that they could do

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Speaker 2: when they did dead Pool three, if they were going

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Speaker 2: to do it R rated, was do dead Pool kills

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Speaker 2: the Marvel Universe. I think with this announcement that Logan

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Speaker 2: is going to be in there. I think there's a

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Speaker 2: version of this where this is dead Pool kills the

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Speaker 2: Fox Universe and they go full out meta and it's

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Speaker 2: Deadpool has to kill all the other versions of the

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Speaker 2: X Men before he can join.

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Speaker 1: The RCU or something like that, and he's he's fighting

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Speaker 1: everyone who By the.

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Speaker 2: Way, Negasonic Teenager your head. I love the character in

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Speaker 2: the comics, but that is one of my favorite castings

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Speaker 2: of all time, and I would want them to bring

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Speaker 2: her into the MCU so much. But I then there's

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Speaker 2: a version where we could see something really meta and

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Speaker 2: out there to kind of be like, this is the

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Speaker 2: MCU's first R rated movie. We're going to take from

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Speaker 2: one of the most popular Deadpool tropes, which is also

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Speaker 2: a popular Marvel trope with Punisher kills Marvel Universe. So

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised to see a kind of version

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Speaker 2: of that. But I'm most excited to just see Ryan

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Speaker 2: and Hugh together because that's going to be really fun.

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Speaker 1: Also, Logan, the comic that that is based on the

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Speaker 1: Old Man Logan limited series by Mark Malar Steph mcnivin

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Speaker 1: wonderful art by step En knivin is itself an alternate

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Speaker 1: universe in the MCU, you know, in accordance with you

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Speaker 1: know MCU timeline structure, like it's they created a whole

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Speaker 1: like dystopian like like mini series, you know, Old Man, Hawkeye,

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Speaker 1: other Old Man characters based on that that run. So

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Speaker 1: it would make sense to do it that way. Splinter

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Speaker 1: universe exactly.

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Speaker 2: We're in the multiverse now, which you know, Kevin Faigi

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Speaker 2: was even saying another thing recently talking about how you know,

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Speaker 2: could want to come back. Yeah, anything's possible in the multiverse.

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Speaker 2: Also ill we knew that was happening, but Kevin, thank

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Speaker 2: you for confirming it. But the other thing, I'll say,

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Speaker 2: just when you said it's so funny, I didn't even

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Speaker 2: really remember this just till you brought up the comic

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Speaker 2: but brilliant Steve mcnivnar in Old Man Logan. That Old

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Speaker 2: Man Logan is a road trip comic across this like

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Speaker 2: destroyed version of America. So maybe there's some world where

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Speaker 2: Deadpool has to become a part of that. It would

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Speaker 2: be so fun to have that kind of Ryan Reynolds

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Speaker 2: Deadpool performance against that dark, gritty Old Man Logan world.

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Speaker 2: And it's extra funny because like people our age will

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Speaker 2: remember this, and people who who've seen all the Wolverine movies,

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Speaker 2: but like Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds have been in

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Speaker 2: an X Men movie before. When Ryan Reynolds Deadpool, but

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Speaker 2: who was like, I think credited his weapon X in

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Speaker 2: that movie and his mouth was son shot and it

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Speaker 2: was like everyone was like, how could you do that

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Speaker 2: to Deadpool? He's mark with the mouth. So this is

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Speaker 2: really funny because it's a reunion of sorts, but it's

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Speaker 2: obviously gonna be a kind of rectification of that movie

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Speaker 2: that not a lot of people like. But it's actually

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Speaker 2: very fun if you watch it.

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Speaker 1: Screenplay X Men Origins, Wolverine screenplay by director Gavin Hood

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Speaker 1: and skip Woods and Game of Thrones co show runner

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Speaker 1: David Benioff.

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Speaker 2: It's all connected bits, all coming together, all right.

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Speaker 1: Up next, She Hulk episode seven, She Helped Episode seven,

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Speaker 1: The Retreat, written by the wonderful zeb Wells, directed by

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Speaker 1: Annu Valia. Very very fun story. Jin gets news that

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Speaker 1: her client, Emil Blonski's inhibitors, something's gone wrong with it's

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Speaker 1: fritzed out. So Blonski's prole officer says, I gotta go

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Speaker 1: up and see what's going on. Could you come with

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Speaker 1: because you're a hulk and I'm just a guy. Jen

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Speaker 1: goes up there. While this is happening, she is in

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Speaker 1: the process of getting ghosted by Josh, the man she

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Speaker 1: met and had a wonderful evening and date and interaction,

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Speaker 1: intimate interaction with at the after the wedding, Josh is

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Speaker 1: not texting her back. And this issue is amplified by

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's very very poor sale service at

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Speaker 1: Emil Blonski's beautiful property, gorgeous somewhere in the hills above

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Speaker 1: Malibu or Calabasas Living Life.

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Speaker 2: It's a living retreat, which, by the way, I will say,

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Speaker 2: we were right. We said, we were like, is he

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Speaker 2: gonna make like a meditation retreat for superpowered people? And

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Speaker 2: that is exactly what he made. And this is another

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Speaker 2: great example of what we've loved about she huwk this

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Speaker 2: whole time, Tim Roth give him every award. He's incredible, hilarious,

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Speaker 2: I love But they set up this unexpected, what is

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Speaker 2: essentially almost like a bottle episode, even though we have

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Speaker 2: the connection to Josh in this strange location where you

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Speaker 2: can pull in all these really deep Cup Marvel characters,

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Speaker 2: and it just feels like you're reading a comic book,

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Speaker 2: which makes sense because zeb Wells is behind some of

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Speaker 2: our favorite recent comic books, so it makes sense that

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Speaker 2: he was able to bring that comic book issue energy.

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Speaker 2: But this is just such a fun episode.

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Speaker 1: It's really wonderful. It wonderfully depicts the feeling of getting

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Speaker 1: ghosted and sending the text that you know you shouldn't send. Also,

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Speaker 1: it gives us the on screen appearances of some amazing

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Speaker 1: deep cut characters. So we meet at Blonsky's retreat. At

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Speaker 1: the group's set, Jen is wanderground. She's looking for cell

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Speaker 1: service and she wanders into this big barn where Blonsky

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Speaker 1: is running his group sessions and running them really well

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Speaker 1: and very effectively and with a lot of generosity. Again,

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Speaker 1: Blonsky has learned a lot in his time. Absolutely, we

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Speaker 1: meet the Man Bull, yes who well actually Man Bull

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Speaker 1: and we are are having having a fight before that,

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Speaker 1: and they wrecked Gens Prius, so we meet them previously,

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Speaker 1: but we see them we really get to know them

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Speaker 1: in this group session. Manbol first of all introduces himself

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Speaker 1: as a kind of a lab experiment, El Aguila, who

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Speaker 1: is a kind of deep cut swashbuckler, street level mutant

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Speaker 1: who has some light ability to produce electricity through his body.

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Speaker 1: He is a mutant in the in the books, they

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Speaker 1: call this when he sets off his electricity. Uh. Blonsky

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Speaker 1: refers to it as bioelectricity, which I think is interestingly

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Speaker 1: how they refer to Spider Woman's sting in the comics.

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Speaker 1: So that's something to keep track of. El Aguila, I mean,

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Speaker 1: has tussled with the X Men a little bit with

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Speaker 1: Excalibur a little bit. Like is just a very low

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Speaker 1: level street level guy, very very funny.

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Speaker 2: Also, yeah, so like that's amuse. And also Mamble, I

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Speaker 2: know everyone is waiting for certain Hell's Kitchen hoty to

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Speaker 2: turn up in Sheeholk. Mamble is a Dare Devil villain.

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Speaker 2: Yes originally, so you're getting the teases. You're getting the teasers.

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Speaker 1: Porcupine, now there have been like several different people to

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Speaker 1: wear to use the name Porcupine and to don this

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Speaker 1: kind of porcupine like armor. Uh. And then Saracen, which

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Speaker 1: I was a little mixed up because the Saracen I

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Speaker 1: know is a nineties late eighties punisher villain who was

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Speaker 1: like a mercenary who got killed by the Punisher, But

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Speaker 1: this is a different Saracen.

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Speaker 2: So I would say we never know because we haven't

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Speaker 2: spoken to whoever wrote it. We didn't speak to Zeb,

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Speaker 2: But my guess is I also was like, oh, Saracen, Punisher,

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Speaker 2: he's an assassin. That's like a kind of from one

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Speaker 2: of people's favorite Punisher runs. But my guess is this

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Speaker 2: is a character also called Saracen who in the comics

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Speaker 2: is a vampire. Here they say he thinks he's a vampire.

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Speaker 2: This seems like we're getting to vampire territory after the

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Speaker 2: Baroness Blood Yeah, last week. But Sarason was first introduced

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Speaker 2: in like this nineteen ninety nine Blade reboot, Blade Vampire

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Speaker 2: Hunter and Number one created by Bart Sears, and as

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Speaker 2: is with so many characters that she Hook has introduced,

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Speaker 2: is only in a fewish shoes. So I think it

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Speaker 2: was very understandable for everyone think of Saracen. Hey, maybe

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Speaker 2: this guy's a combo. Maybe he became a vampire while

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Speaker 2: doing some cool assassin stuff after Punisher killed him. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there was a time when Punisher was literally Frankenstein, So

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Speaker 2: there is horror cross over there.

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Speaker 1: Let's here was literally with that. Let's talk about that

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Speaker 1: in depth at some point. Yeah, because this is one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite things about comics is when you start

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Speaker 1: talking the stuff that has happened, it is so insane.

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Speaker 1: It's just insanity. Yes, that's right, you heard right. The

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Speaker 1: punisher was Frankenstein at.

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Speaker 2: One point, and it was a point in time that

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Speaker 2: really that absolutely relaunched the whole Marvel Comics universe to

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Speaker 2: the place where it is now. So that was actually

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Speaker 2: a poor moment that we will definitely talk about for sure. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then of course, uh, the Wrecker. Yeah, also we

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Speaker 1: med him. It was also involved in this in this

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Speaker 1: group therapy session, and we learned that feels very sorry

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Speaker 1: for his actions. He takes responsibility for attacking Jen, and

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Speaker 1: they talk about it, and they helped Jen work through

430
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: her very complicated feelings about Shee Hulk and whether people.

431
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: She puts it in a really interesting way that I

432
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: think was super effective, which is like you know that

433
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: friend from high school who is like hotter than you,

434
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: more athletic, taller, more popular, or more confident. I am

435
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: also that person, like Shee Holk is that person. And

436
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: so Jen is working through these feelings of do they

437
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: like me or do they like shee Hulk, and Josh

438
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: really seemed and in fact stated outright like I'm interested

439
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: in Jen. I like Jen. And this is what is

440
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: so devastating about Josh's ongoing ghosting of Jen is She's

441
00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: really is hurt by this rejection, and in a beautiful fashion,

442
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 1: the group really helps her work through it.

443
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they get mad about it. They are like

444
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: ready to ride aside for Jen. They are like, we're

445
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: gonna be chilling Saracen's like we're gonna drain his blood

446
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: and everyone is just like, please stop saying you're a vampire.

447
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: But I thought this was so fun, and I kind

448
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: of love the idea that we could potentially see these

449
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 2: characters come back as like a ragtag team of people

450
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: backing our tin when when the inevitable battles happen over

451
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: the next couple of.

452
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: The superior foes of she Hulk kind of thing, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

453
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: like and I think that could be really cool.

454
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: And then obviously, you know, Jen gets to have this

455
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: really great, friendly, positive way of getting over it. She

456
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: deletes Josh's number, she heads back, and you're like, oh,

457
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: that was a really good thing that happened, Like, I'm

458
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: so happy for her. Then we get the three days

459
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: earlier flashback at.

460
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: The end we were right again, we were right, We

461
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: were right about this, but this is devastating. So this

462
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: has me thinking, is one number one? Who is Josh

463
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: working for? That's the thing. So we see Josh in

464
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: this flashback. He spends the night with Jen and then

465
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: as she's asleep, he is up and he's cloning her phone.

466
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: He's like downloading her entire phone into his phone. Then

467
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: he takes a picture of her to kind of prove

468
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: that the mission accomplished, and then sends a text to

469
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: whoever the Hult King is saying I did it, so one,

470
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: who is the hul King? Yeah?

471
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: And what is the purpose of the intelligentsia because obviously

472
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: somebody wants she Hawk's blood?

473
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: Right?

474
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: What I'm really interested in, like, what are the two

475
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: sides of the intelligensia Because there's like the MRA like

476
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: website side where everyone talks about how they hate she,

477
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 2: howk and they want to kill her. Then we've in

478
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: the high tech lab side and those are obviously both

479
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: connected by Hulk King. But what does Hult King want

480
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: and who are they? Why do they want the blood?

481
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: Is it the leader? And they're establishing a world where

482
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: people don't care about Gen or they want to hate

483
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: Gen so they won't care if something happens to her. Yeah,

484
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: seems unlikely to me. This seems like it's going to

485
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 2: be up. So there was a quote from Jamila Jamil

486
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: that she did on Instagram a long time ago when

487
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: she was doing the premiere, and she said, you know

488
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: people are going to say this show hates men, and

489
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: and she said, but Titania is the biggest misogynist of all.

490
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: And I wonder if Hulk King is Titania and the

491
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: intelligency is actually being run by Titania because she hates

492
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: she Hulk. She loves Hulk. She always dresses in Hulk colors,

493
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: and she maybe wants to like I have a I

494
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: feel like there's something here where the reason they want

495
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: Jen's blood is to create a cure to take away

496
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: Jen's powers. I used to think it was a about

497
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: spreading this super sol Ja serum, but I feel like

498
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: this is very specifically about only having one Hulk, or

499
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: only having a male Hulk and taking Gen's powers away.

500
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Now I think I don't think it's the Leader. We did,

501
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: we wondered about that. Certainly the lab would seem to

502
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: suggest that, and the kind of funding behind a lab

503
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: of that nature would seem to suggest the Leader. That said,

504
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: because the Leader, I mean, this is cheating again, but like,

505
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: because the Leader is in Captain America for New World Order,

506
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: I just don't It's hard for me to believe that

507
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: they would soft launch him in she Hulk. I love

508
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: the idea that it could be Titania, as Saul, as

509
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: super producer Saul is putting in the chat right now,

510
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: it could be a cosmetics lab. Also, that's really good.

511
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: You know.

512
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: She Hulk very very easily, without any kind of sweat

513
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: at all, beat Titania in episode one, and then of

514
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: course they had their court battle regarding the branding of

515
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: she Hulk. What maybe Titania's thing is, I'm going to

516
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: become Gen, to beat Gen, and then I will be

517
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: the she Hulk. I will take the I'll take the mantle,

518
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: and I'll beat her because then I will be as

519
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: strong as her. I could see a world in life.

520
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: She wants the blood to be as strong as Gen.

521
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: And also, like you know, the Leader is not going

522
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: to hire schmucks like the Record Crew, like this version

523
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: of the Wrecking Crew, the leader would do something real.

524
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: And the cosmetics lab thing is so interesting because like

525
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: this is obviously we're going to the distinguished competition. But

526
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: like one of my favorite things from any Superior movie

527
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: ever is when in Batman, Joker jokeafies all the makeup

528
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: and he makes But what if Titania was doing something

529
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: different where she wanted to take Gen's powers Hulk King.

530
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: She's the top of the Hulk food chain. But also

531
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: if you could make cosmetics that gave people superpowers, even

532
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: for a few minutes, you would probably be making a

533
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: lot of money. Wow, And she has we know that

534
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: she is this kind of millionaire influencer, so that lab

535
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: actually doesn't seem so out of place. I think there's

536
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: a lot of really interesting stuff that's going to kind

537
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: of be revealed in the next two episodes. Like we said,

538
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: there's other options, like it could be a Hulk's sun scar,

539
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: could already be here, could already be on Earth trying

540
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: to find out who he is, how he was born.

541
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: There's all different exciting options. But Jessica, when we spoke

542
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: to Jessica Goal, she said something really interesting about how

543
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: there are these people on Earth who know about these heroes,

544
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: so obviously some of them are trying to like live

545
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: in their image or be like them. So I guess

546
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: the other version is Hulk King is like a Hulk

547
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: Superstan who's just really, really rich. Maybe it's that guy

548
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: who we saw who was one of Jen's dates who

549
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: wanted to know about if her skin was impenetrable, and

550
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: then we saw him with ma Galary book in the offices.

551
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: Maybe he's just a really rich guy who wants to

552
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: be a superhero and so he's trying to get the

553
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: blood to become a Hulk, though we know how that

554
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: ends for people who try and do that badly every time.

555
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, my other question is Josh. Is Josh just a

556
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: character created for this show or is he an amalgam

557
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: or an adaptation of another character, because it feels like

558
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: Josh will be around for a while, and certainly the

559
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: way he's going about his business, seducing Jen, manipulating her,

560
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: getting access to her phone feels like this is a

561
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,479
Speaker 1: trained This is a person who does this. This is

562
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: not the Wrecking Crew level sloppy.

563
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: And this is not just some guy who can pull

564
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: this off like that. I love that thought because it

565
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: feels to me also there's a there's a maliciousness to

566
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: it and a malevolence. He could have got Jen's blood

567
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: when she was drunk at the party eating fries. She

568
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 2: was in gen form, but he went out of his

569
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: way to sleep with her, to be have her in

570
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: the most vulnerable possible position, then take a picture of

571
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: her naked. There's layers to the evilness, and like you said,

572
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: it feels more like a pattern than necessarily they just

573
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: picked some random guy up off the street and gave

574
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: him an enchanted crowbar.

575
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: Thinking about you know, we know Armor Wars is going

576
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: to be spread of technology, and in the comics industrial

577
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: espionage it has always been like a big theme in

578
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: the Iron Man stuff. I wonder if Josh, if Josh

579
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: is indeed a version of some comic book character, it

580
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: would be someone like the Spymaster is, you know, an

581
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 1: industrial espionage person worked for justin Hammer to you know,

582
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: steal Stark tech. Someone like that. I wonder, because again,

583
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: he's too good at this. He's way too good at this.

584
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: Also, the actor who plays him is like so good

585
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 2: and charming and interesting and easy to hate Trevor Salter.

586
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: You really liked him, you really wanted him. I mean

587
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: in our discord, people really wanted him to be a

588
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: good guy. Like that was an ongoing conversation that people

589
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: were having because they didn't want Jen to be in

590
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: that trap of everyone she meets his kind of this

591
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: manipulative piece of shit guy. But he's so watchable and

592
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 2: he's so believable as this like flip on a dime,

593
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: like can be cruel, can be kind, can be charming.

594
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: I think it would surprise me if he turns out

595
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: to just be a character for this series. I think

596
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: we could definitely see him show up again, and that

597
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 2: would be so cool if he was someone like the Spymaster,

598
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: especially this like modern version where it's kind of you're

599
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: kind of a hacker, you're kind of a con man,

600
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: you're kind of a pick up artist. Like that's a

601
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: really interesting way to recontact extualize the character.

602
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: He's also like clearly in too like we're gonna find

603
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: out he's in too good to shape. Also, like I

604
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: just feel like we're gonna find out he's got some

605
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: gymnastic ability to him. Stay tuned, we'll see this is

606
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: we're just guessing again, but we love to do it. Okay,

607
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: up next, let's jump into House of the Dragon Crook

608
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: Crooked Radio. Crooked is bringing you the electric coverage you

609
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: love to hate with Crooked Radio every weekend in October

610
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: on Serious XM Progress and on the Serious XM app.

611
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: Join our lineup of podcast hosts, candidates, experts, and more,

612
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: including pods Save the World to break down all the

613
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: issues that matter this November. Dive into the conversation shaping

614
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: our current political climate and give the only one hundred

615
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: percent correct opinions in politics. You don't want to miss this.

616
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: Subscribe now and get up to four months free of

617
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: Serious XM. See the offer dales at SiriusXM dot com

618
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: slash Crooked. Let's get into episode six, House of the Dragon,

619
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: The Prince and the Queen, written by Sarah Has, directed

620
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: by Miguel Sapotschenko. When you ever see his whenever you

621
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: see his name, uh, you know that something special is

622
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: going to happen. First of all, we open with a

623
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: massive time joke. Ten years have passed and we watch

624
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: Princess Raniera, now grown woman, giving birth to her latest child,

625
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: and then, within moments of the child coming to the world.

626
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: Queen Alison's like, we want to see you. Could you come?

627
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: I understand that you your body has just done the

628
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: most traumatic natural thing that it can do, but if

629
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: you could just totter on over to the Queen's chain,

630
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: we'd love to talk to you.

631
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 2: I think Allison's dream is that the baby without Ranera.

632
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: But Ranera is not silly. This is set This is

633
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 2: such a brilliant one shot that immediately sets up where

634
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: these two characters are. Ranera hasn't even the after birth,

635
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 2: has not been birthed, and Reanera is taking that baby

636
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: because she does not want that baby alone with her

637
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: ex bff tn Nemesis.

638
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: Lenor her her loyal husband is of course accompanying her,

639
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: and we love to see that. We interviewed Michuel Sippachnik

640
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: on the official Game of Thrones House of the Dragon

641
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: Pod and he said something super smart, which is that

642
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: the inspiration for this one shot was that, because of

643
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: the ten year time jump, he just wanted the audience

644
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: to spend time hanging out with these characters, watching them

645
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: interact essentially doing you know, basically nothing, walking around talking

646
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: to each other, and so that they could kind of

647
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: get acclimated and understand who these people are now kind

648
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: of get the measure of their energy and their personalities

649
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: now that ten years has past. I thought that was

650
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: really smart and I thought it really really worked well.

651
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: Word you immediately understand their relationship, and it introduces us

652
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: to the baseline of their relationship, which is respect and loyalty.

653
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: But then the episode does a great job of expanding

654
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: on what the reality of the day to day of

655
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: that is.

656
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: The King is delighted to see his new grandson tentatively

657
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: soft launch on the name Jeoffrey.

658
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: He's like, we're still decide, No, it's Jeoffrey, babe, And

659
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 2: you know what, he is right, it should be Jeoffrey,

660
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: like three babies in. I think let the man have

661
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: a song called Jeoffrey.

662
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, he wanted to go Jeoffrey off that and

663
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: I think it was very wise Verdiero to talk him

664
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: out of that. But you know, you're absolutely at three in.

665
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: Maybe we could uh, maybe we could do jos, although

666
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: I think let's discuss that with your partner before you

667
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: are getting into the room.

668
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 2: You had the very long walk up the stairs. Yes,

669
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: but again, if we want to talk about this relationship

670
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: and the way that they quickly establish stuff in this

671
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: episode that shows you he's there, he's loyal, But there

672
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: is a disconnect between the two of them and the

673
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: way that they see their lives and their legacy and

674
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: the weight of what they both have to do to

675
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 2: keep their family alive that Raniera holds far heavier than

676
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: lay Or, And in that moment, that is a great

677
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 2: bit of foreshadowing of what comes to pass.

678
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: It is it is it's heartening to see Renier a

679
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: kind of grab on to her responsibility in a way

680
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: that makes you feel like she's learned a lot in

681
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: that ten years. The flip side of that coin is

682
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: it is really a gut punch to see how hateful

683
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: Alison has become in the ten years. And Kristen, we'll

684
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: get to him in a second. But the way Alison,

685
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: first of all, that pulls down the swaddling on the baby.

686
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: You gotta check that hair some a lot of questions

687
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: about hair and ask the maser will answer those sees

688
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: that it is appears to be brown stubble, unlike his

689
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: The child's father, Lenor, and certainly the child's mother Raniera,

690
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: and she goes over to Lenor and says, oh, do

691
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: do keep trying. Perhaps one of these days you'll get

692
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: one that looks like you.

693
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: It's like, it is so Olivia Cook and Emma Darcy

694
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: just sell this. We have obviously been the ultimate young Rainer.

695
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: Millicent stands right, and but the way that they sell

696
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: this is just so heartbreaking. Olivia Cook is just shaking.

697
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: It's poison and anger and poison and hatred and the

698
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: saddest thing. As we see in this episode you mentioned

699
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: Kristen Cole, she is only surrounded by snake tongue, poisonous

700
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: like you can understand how that bitterness has grown, and

701
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: once again it is the shadow of Otto and men,

702
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: essentially pitting her against Rania rather than that conversation that

703
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: they always should have been having for many, many years.

704
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: You can tell in the way that Allison and Cole converse.

705
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: So after this meeting the new Babe Alison leaves. She's

706
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 1: walking with Kristen Cole, her sworn shield, and you can

707
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: tell that these two have spent the last ten years

708
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: complaining bitterly about Raniera, who they clearly now absolutely hate.

709
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: Christen Cole, in shocking fashion, calls her a cunt, which

710
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: is I will say Allison.

711
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: I love that because there's some moments here and this

712
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: is the you know, everyone knows. I'm sure you've all

713
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: been waiting because you know how much I love Olivia.

714
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: But like the way that she balances the poison with

715
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: those occasional moments where her common sense and empathy breakthrough.

716
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: And one of them is when he calls Raniera, can't

717
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: you can't do that, and she is like, she stops, yeah,

718
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: and he has to apologize, and she says, like, in

719
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: her mind, what she's fighting for is this idea of

720
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: honor and dignity and truth and honesty because Raniera is lying, which,

721
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,479
Speaker 2: by the way, we'll get to later, so is everyone ever,

722
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: every man who's ever been in charge of any place

723
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: in King's Landing. But there's also a moment where you

724
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: see that those just those little moments of Olivia where

725
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 2: she suddenly Allison suddenly realizes the path that she has

726
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: gone on, and by the end of the episode, she

727
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: realizes very horribly.

728
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like how far she is she has gone down

729
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: this very dark path. So we go back to the

730
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: two nearest chambers. Her children, her sons Jason, Luke, Jasaris

731
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: and Luceris have brought have very charmingly brought an egg

732
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: in the warmer up from the dragon pit. This is

733
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: gonna be Joffrey's new egg. They can't wait to put

734
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: the egg in the cradle. This is delightful kind of

735
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: scene of family life, and and Raniero's good friend, her

736
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: very very good friend, Captain of the city, watched Sir

737
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: Harward Strong, who of course carried her out of the

738
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: scrum on her wedding night lo those years ago. They've

739
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: they've struck up a wonderful friendship and he is here

740
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: to check on her and and check on the new babe.

741
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: And it's a wonderful thing to see that he has

742
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: taken such an interest in and he wants.

743
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: To hold the baby. And there is just this really

744
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 2: great moment. There's so many great character moments this episode,

745
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: but there is this great moment where once again, look,

746
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: the truth is, those ten years are past, right, We

747
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 2: are only gonna we are moving towards the dance. That's

748
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: what this has always been about. But there are these

749
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: moments here that give you so much scope of how

750
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: Raniera and Lenor have survived. And yeah, you know, Lenor

751
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 2: and takes the kids, takes the two boys Jason Luke

752
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 2: and leaves and leaves Harwin and Rinera with the baby.

753
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: The arrangement acceptance, their arrangement, which we saw them hammer

754
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: out in the previous episode is clearly as we see

755
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: over the course of this episode, Rocky, It's imperfect, but

756
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: it's working to an extent that you know, Lenor is

757
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: able to live his life, Rania is able to live

758
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: her life. And in that sense, if you could shut

759
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: out the kind of the whispering from the outside world,

760
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: it is kind of working. We fast forward to the

761
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: dragon pit across town, Ellison's boys Agon and aimond Or

762
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: watching as Jace is introduced to his juvenile dragon, vermax. Uh.

763
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: Jase does well in commanding the dragon in high Valerian,

764
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: and then they with we have to say, at Agon's urging,

765
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: it seems like Agon is the ringleader here. Yeah. They

766
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: then play a prank on a young Amen in which

767
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: they tell him, oh, we got you a dragon. Here

768
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: it is, and they bring up what Amon is thinking

769
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: is going to be a dragon but is actually a pig,

770
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and they say this is the pink drag. This is haha. Now,

771
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: this is very interesting because you know you might be thinking, well,

772
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: why does Aimon not have a dragon? As we've talked

773
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: about before, dragon ends are going to be limited. We

774
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: saw that Joffrey has gotten one. But also we should

775
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: we can surmise through this that they've put aim and

776
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: they put eggs in Amen's cradle clearly when as a child,

777
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: and have probably introduced others to him and they have

778
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: just not hatched. Yes, so, and it's clear that he

779
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 1: is feeling very self conscious about this. And we should

780
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: add that there's a lot of whispering about who about

781
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: Vernier's kids? Are they bastards?

782
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 3: Yeah?

783
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: Right? And they are taking the hair and the looks

784
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: of the children as signals the critics of Arnia that

785
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: they are not from the opposite side. There are going

786
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: to be plenty of people saying, well, look at why

787
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: does Aimon to not have a dragon? The eggs and

788
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: hatch the eggs hatched for Jason Luke and they bonded

789
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: to the dragons just fine.

790
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: So let's talk about we know that there are masters

791
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: who can do things with hand eyes, you know, bleaches, like,

792
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: let's be real, those whispers would be that also this

793
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: this sets up one of my favorite juxtapositions that I

794
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: did not expect in this episode, which is tld Ox's

795
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: talking right, but they men.

796
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 4: Targarian good dad, Like he sets up this juxtaposition between

797
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 4: how Visarahs raises his kids and the dedication that he

798
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 4: has and the interest he has in them, and how Damon,

799
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 4: who we will meet his family, raises them and Aimon

800
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 4: just not.

801
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 2: It's sort of almost like they've given up on aim

802
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: and having a dragon is very interesting in context of

803
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 2: what we see with Damon's kids.

804
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:29,479
Speaker 1: Definitely a better father than I think everybody expected. Amend later,

805
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: because of his obsession with dragons, goes down in the

806
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: dragon pit and is frightened off by a dragon, probably

807
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: c Rex. We meet Princess Helena Bug Queen Allicent and yeah,

808
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: Queen Allisent and King vissaras third child, and it's clear

809
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: that she is very nerdy. She is described in the

810
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: books as being kind of flighty, very different, and we

811
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: can see it here. She's very interested in bugs. Allison

812
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: is clearly confused by this.

813
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 2: Like she's like trying to be a good mom. So

814
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: I have a question for you. We don't see it

815
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 2: in this episode. Historically Helena has she bonded with a dragon.

816
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: Does she have a dragon or did they for some

817
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: reason decide. So she does. We just haven't seen it yet.

818
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: We haven't seen it yet. She has a dragon, she

819
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: probably has it by now, and very interesting. She's talking

820
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: about this centipede and she's saying, you know it has eyes,

821
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: but I don't think it sees through the eyes. And

822
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: then kudos to Alison, who, though is clearly frustrated by

823
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: the way her daughter interacts, is loving and interested and

824
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: she's asking questions, why do you think it doesn't see?

825
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: And she says, well, nature is very strange. And then

826
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: Alison goes off to have another conversation when she gets

827
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: the news that Aimond again has like snuck down to

828
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: the dragon pit and has come back. He's all dirty

829
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: and almost got fried down there, and she Allison is

830
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: getting into Aimened about his obsession with dragons. You'll get one,

831
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: like what you know.

832
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: Elsa maybe hates dragons.

833
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: The way she's very well, it's clear that she's scared.

834
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: She has a healthy respect, probably bordering on fear of them,

835
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: and a thing to watch. So she says that to

836
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: She's hectoring Aimond and about him getting a dragon in

837
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: his obsession with it, and Helena says after Alison says,

838
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, you'll get a dragon one day. Helena says,

839
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: he'll have to close an eye. Now for book readers,

840
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to. For book readers, they will know

841
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: that this feels like a very portentious saying. And I

842
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: think that what this is telling us is, if there

843
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: is currently a Targarian who has the Targarian gift of dreaming,

844
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: it is Helena. It's Helena. Yeah, So going forward, let's

845
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: pay attention, folks to the things that Helena says, because

846
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: I I think they will be important. And I think

847
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: this was important.

848
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 2: I think so too, and I love the way that

849
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: it could be. You could think she's still talking about

850
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: the centipede. So I kind of wonder if that her

851
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: interest in those bugs is going to be kind of

852
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 2: a channel for her to say these potentious things and

853
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,959
Speaker 2: most people are going to ignore them and she'll become

854
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: like a bit of a Cassandra figure. But yeah, it

855
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: was I thought that was a great moment.

856
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: Later we see Alison complain to the King about the

857
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: parentage of the nearest children, and the King basically is

858
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: in the laws like do not We're not questioning the

859
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: parentage of the princes anymore. That's it. Don't speak of

860
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: this again. We go to Agon's room after Allison gets

861
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: the news about the prank plate on Aim and she

862
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: goes to Agon's room. She doesn't knock, which is unfortunate

863
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: for Agon because he is standing in seemingly the window

864
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: that Toman will later jump out of and he is

865
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: jacking off into the city. It just says so much,

866
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: like it says so much about this guy it.

867
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: Does, and it's ty Tenant who plays him, and he

868
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: is just like.

869
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: He's great, so good, like he's good.

870
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: One that just it's so gross and it's really dark

871
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 2: when you think about the Tommin.

872
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 1: Connection, very very dark.

873
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: And then it's like, yeah, so we'll get to it.

874
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: But there's one line delivery in this where I was

875
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: just like, I want to see this kid play egg

876
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: on forever.

877
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: He U he's good. Yeah the way he says. She

878
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: asks him like, was it your idea that's thing with Amon?

879
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: And he's like Amon or your brother and she's like

880
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: he's your brother and he goes he's a twat and

881
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't it in a way that is like, of

882
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: course he's a tweat. Like it's so organic, it's so good.

883
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: It feels so real to the character, it's really good.

884
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 1: And then she just lays into him about listen, don't

885
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: you get it. If Rania comes into power, you could

886
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: be killed, Your brother could be killed. We need to

887
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: bond together, we need to stay united in the face

888
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: of this threat, which Agon clearly does not get. We

889
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: then we go across the Narrow Sea to Pentos, where

890
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: Damon on Craxis and his wife Lena Valarion on Vagar

891
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: folks are flying across the Narrow Seed to Pentos. They're

892
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: staying there in Pentos because Damon just has a wandering spirit,

893
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: clearly doesn't feel at home right now with the current

894
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: political situation in King's Landing, and he's just basically wasting

895
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: time in Pentos, although his Pentoshi host is clearly hoping

896
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: that that Damon and Lena will lend their dragons to

897
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: the current fight against the triarchy, which clearly Damon has

898
00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: absolutely no interest in. Again, he's just there wasting, wasting

899
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: time doing nothing. And Lena, it's very clear, is growing

900
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: increasingly frustrated at this She would like to go home.

901
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: But Lena on Vagar is huge. That's a big deal.

902
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: That's a huge moment, and to see them again. If

903
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: we talk about character moments, how people have been spending

904
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 2: their time, the way that Damon and Lena ride their

905
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: dragons together, there is this level of comfort, of competitiveness,

906
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: of companionship, of understanding of fun like this is what

907
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: they've been doing for ten years. Lena says, we're travelers.

908
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: We go from place to place. That's what we do,

909
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: you know, and she wants to go home. But they

910
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: have clearly found a certain level of happiness and contentment

911
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: in this ten years that basically no one else who

912
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: stayed in Gaines Landing has.

913
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: We get some important news here also that the triarchy

914
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: apparently has a deal with Dorn, with the Martel's of Dorn,

915
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: which is of course something that that the realm in general.

916
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: The King certainly would be very anxious to head off,

917
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: and certainly anybody, you know, any of the lands that

918
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 1: are bordering door in the Stormlands, the Reach, et cetera.

919
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: We go to the Red Keep where the young princes,

920
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: all the princes are training in the courtyard under the

921
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: tutelage of Kristin Cole, and Kristin Cole is definitely giving

922
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot more attention to the sons of Alison and Visas,

923
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: egg On and Ame and than he is to the

924
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: future heirs of both the Red Keep the Iron Throne

925
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: and Driftmark, Jason Luceras and Sir Harmon Strong, who again

926
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: I think, just a sports fan. He just loves to

927
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: watch the He just loves to watch the sports, and

928
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: much as much as yeah, and much as Visaras, Who's like,

929
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: oh this is wonder too. To Lionel Strong is hand,

930
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:06,479
Speaker 1: He's like, isn't this wonderful? Young boys learning together, trading together, life,

931
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: lives long, bond, isn't it great? At Lionel's like, we

932
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: hope that that happens.

933
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe, yeah, so uh.

934
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: Harlan Strong, who again has just taken an interest in

935
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: these young men, complaints to Kristen Cole that hey, could

936
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: you maybe train Jason Luke. Also, you're spending a lot

937
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: of time with Egon and Amond, and Christin Cole says, yeah,

938
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: that's a great idea young oldest boy versus oldest boy,

939
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: Egon versus Jace. Now there is like an eight year

940
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: difference here. Agon is probably fifteen Isch here, and we

941
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: could say that Jase is well, Purchase is probably old.

942
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 1: They're probably like ten or so like the oldest.

943
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 2: There's a significant age gap and an attention deficit because

944
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: Jace has not been trained because Kristin Cole is the

945
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: one who is training them, and he has obviously trained

946
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: Agone to be a bat, which just saying if you're

947
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 2: talking about rumas, look where the attention is.

948
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: So Kristin says when Harowin complains about this, well, you know,

949
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: you would know if you had ever been in a

950
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: real battle that an age advantage doesn't matter. No one's

951
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: asking how old you are, how skilled you are when

952
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: you're on the battlefield, which I guess is a good point,

953
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: but still you get what Cole is going for here.

954
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: He wants to punish these boys, and my extension, punish

955
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: Raniera and Lenor and Harwin. So uh Agon, you know,

956
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: beats basically Molly wops Chase. Chase has a lot of spirit.

957
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: He fights very very hard, he never quits. But Egon's

958
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: just bigger and stronger, and and he takes him down

959
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: and he's about to deliver what is, you know, basically

960
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: a dirty blow as he's already kicked Jase to the ground.

961
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: When Harwin grabs his sword stops him. He puts hands

962
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: on him and throws him and you know, agon In

963
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: Fairness says, how dare you? I'm a prince of the blood,

964
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: which is true. Kristin Cole also is like, you know,

965
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like you fucking psycho. It's weird

966
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: that you have such an interest in these boys. Usually

967
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: just a you know, you don't. Only a family member

968
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: would feel like, you know, like a cousin or maybe

969
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: a brother, or maybe like a son. And then that

970
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: sets Harwin off. He pummels Kristin Cole and it's eventually

971
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: broken up. But this is a shocking scene. A lot

972
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: of people witness this, including the king and Harwin Strong's father,

973
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: the hand of the King, Lionel Strong. This is a

974
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,919
Speaker 1: big deal and it's not good.

975
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: It was nice to see. It was nice to see

976
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: Kristin Cole get his face punched in sad fatality, but

977
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 2: it was cathotic often what.

978
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it because again Cole, in the intervening years,

979
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: has become you can feel It's a wonderful job by

980
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: Fabian Franko, because you can really feel the anger and

981
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: the resentment simmering.

982
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 2: And he is the worst x you could ever have

983
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: the most absorbable, toxic, abusive piece of shit, won't leave

984
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: you alone X and he's just a time and to

985
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: destroy Ranera.

986
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: He is just mean. He's a mean, mean guy. Raniera

987
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: hears about this, and she understands now that the kind

988
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: of rumors that have been going around the Red Keep

989
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: about who the real father of her kids are unsounded.

990
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned to suggest that, she realizes

991
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: this is actually a threat now and with with Harwind

992
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: blowing up like this, people are going to start to talk.

993
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: And when people start to talk, you know, appearances can

994
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: become reality. Lenor comes in with his his companion, Karl,

995
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: who he has been sparring of late with, and the

996
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: Princess is enraged and she lays into him. She's like,

997
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: you gotta get it together. These are your sons. There

998
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: are whispers that are absolutely potentially deadly to us and

999
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: our family going around. Lenor brings up, hey, you know

1000
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: Carl's fighting on he's been fighting in the Stepstones, that

1001
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: the Stepstones is still a hot war zone. I would

1002
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: love to go down there. Clearly, Lenor is very bored,

1003
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: and Rainierra has to pull rank and basically say no,

1004
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: I order you not to go. How would that look?

1005
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: You're these, you're the father of three sons, one a newborn.

1006
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: What would it look like if you flee to the

1007
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: stepstones while the entire realm is ensconced in in rumor

1008
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: mongering about who the real father is. You can't you

1009
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: absolutely can't do that. And very wisely she order him

1010
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: to stay, and I think two to Leanor's credit, he's like, Okay,

1011
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: I'm back, I won't go.

1012
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 2: She does a great job of saying to him, like, look,

1013
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: we made an arrangement. I kept my side of it.

1014
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 2: You get to fuck the lustiest boys, you get to

1015
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: get drunk, drink the best wines, by the best horses.

1016
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 2: And she's like, and now your end of it has

1017
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: to be sticking by us, and he's like yeah. But

1018
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 2: he also says the wise words. He's like the wise

1019
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: sailor flees as the storm gathers interesting waiting around for it.

1020
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: And we will see some interesting impact of that great statement.

1021
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: That I found that metaphor fascinating because it is because

1022
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: it is the It is the polar opposite of Corlis's approach,

1023
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: which is you feel the storm gathering, and you you

1024
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: head for it. You go through it or you make

1025
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: your decision. You either go through it or you go

1026
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: around it, but you make your decision immediately, whereas Lenor

1027
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm not making a judgment over which kind

1028
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: of version of the way.

1029
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 2: It's interesting from where he got it from. That's what's

1030
01:00:58,200 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 2: really intriguing.

1031
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: Well, it's a lot I think about how he feels

1032
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: about himself, about his true nature, and how he feels

1033
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: about conflict. And I also think it's it's it's very

1034
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: telling that this is a he's a warrior, he's a

1035
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: true knight, as he says to Taranira, and because he

1036
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: can't feel accepted in Westraus because he's a gay man,

1037
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: a thing again, a concept that they would not understand

1038
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: and that he probably does not even understand. It is

1039
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: I think, really telling that he feels like I can

1040
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: express myself as a man by going to war, because

1041
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: that's the way I can be accepted as a warrior,

1042
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: as a knight, as a as a person, as a

1043
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: real man, and as a person of royal blood here

1044
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: in this in this society. I'm going to go to war.

1045
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm gona ride my dragon. I'm gonna fight.

1046
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 2: Also as well, likely with the knowledge of the historical

1047
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 2: kind of bent of this show, and that real influence

1048
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 2: is also probably absolutely acceptable in war situations to sleep

1049
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 2: with the men that you fight alongside and not be

1050
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: judged for it. So I think there's like some really

1051
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: interesting stuff about where he feels comfortable to live his life,

1052
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: but he is sadly not in that position right now

1053
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: because of things that are occurring at court.

1054
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: Speaking of court, we go to a small council meeting

1055
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: where we see that Allison is now directly She's now

1056
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: sitting at the small council table along with King Vassaras

1057
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: and the Heir Princess Rania. They are talking about an

1058
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: ongoing incident, the latest in a string of incidents in

1059
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: the in the very very hot Bracken Blackwood feud. You know,

1060
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: Alison is like, we let the Tullies, let the high

1061
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: lords of the riverlands deal with there's a riverland issue.

1062
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: Let the Tullies deal with it. We'll stay out of it. Riniera,

1063
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: it says, you know wisely and understand in the area. Hey,

1064
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: the Bracken and the Blackwoods will go at it over anything,

1065
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: over anything, and it can easily spill out of control.

1066
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk to some of the local people to see

1067
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: what the truth of it is and maybe through that

1068
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: we will come up with a way to figure out

1069
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: how to solve this. Allison rolls her eyes. It's very

1070
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: clear that, like the Allison takes any kind of comment

1071
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: by Rania that seems to countervene something that she has

1072
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: said as a direct attack, like her trying to one

1073
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: up her, even though they're both working at the same thing,

1074
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: which is the stability of the realm.

1075
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 2: And Breniera as well. Everything that she says in the

1076
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 2: small council meeting, everything we see her doing this episode

1077
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: is so logical, so thoughtful, so smart, and in some

1078
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: ways very generous, and I feel like it's really sad

1079
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 2: to kind of see how Allison's fear and bitterness has

1080
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 2: blinded to what often the best bets for that stability.

1081
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: Also, it's it's it's great to see Raniera as really

1082
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: kind of understanding what it takes to rules. She's not

1083
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: just saying, top down, here's what we decree from the heartstone.

1084
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: She's saying, let's talk to the people on the ground.

1085
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: Here's here's how we can kind of like draw people

1086
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: to us. Let's talk to the local people. Well, they're

1087
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: going to know this few better than we can from

1088
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: King's landing. Let's talk to them and see maybe they

1089
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: have some information that could help us make a decision here. Also,

1090
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: it was really I talked about this on the official pod,

1091
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: but they talk about they talk about Lord Grover Tully

1092
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: was the current high Lord of of of the river Lands,

1093
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: you know sitting at river Run. Lord Lord Grover is

1094
01:04:52,680 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: the grandfather of of Elmo Tully and the and his

1095
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: great grandson is Kermit Tully.

1096
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 2: I think George having a little.

1097
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: Fun and I appreciate it having a little Sesame street

1098
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: fun here. It's just a really cute thing that George

1099
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: has done. And then as the council meeting is about

1100
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: to break up, Rania it makes a really huge step.

1101
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: She addresses the council. She says, I have felt the

1102
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: strife between our families. She's talking about Allison's side of

1103
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: the family and her side of the family. She apologizes

1104
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: for any offense that might have come from her side,

1105
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: clearly talking about the incident with the pig and her

1106
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: son's Jason Luke and their their potential role in all

1107
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: of that, and she says, let's let's bind up these wounds.

1108
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: Let's unify right now. How about my son Jason, Mary's Helena.

1109
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: Let them rule together. End to sweeten the deal, we

1110
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: know that that Aimond has been dying for that dragon.

1111
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: When Cyrax, my she dragon, brings forth a clutch of eggs,

1112
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: we will set aside one for Aimond. It is a great,

1113
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: great deal.

1114
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 2: Loves it. It would the kingdom would see it as

1115
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 2: a statement of strength and unity and stability. It is

1116
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: the opposite of the game of whispers instability that is

1117
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 2: going on. It would be a huge moment. And what

1118
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 2: does Alison do?

1119
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: Points out that that Raniera's who has just given birth, uh,

1120
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: that she is leaking mother's milk into her dress a

1121
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: way to call attention to her woman, to the fact

1122
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: that she is a woman, certainly as a way to

1123
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: undermine her legitimacy, because there are so many questions about

1124
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: a woman ruling in this world, and is also a

1125
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: very very useful way to kind of dodge any kind

1126
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: of decision over this very very great gesture that Raniera

1127
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: has said. And then Alison, in another really great telling moment,

1128
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: how does she react to this wonderful gesture of Raniera's.

1129
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: She says, ah, well, that's because Rannia is weak, she's

1130
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: under pressure. She's giving us this now because she feels

1131
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: the hounds closing in on all sides of her, and

1132
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: she's not wrong. But also that's a great deal.

1133
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: It's a great response too. We live in a world

1134
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: of kingslanding, which, as we'll see, is still just as

1135
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 2: brutal as we remember. A lot of people when they

1136
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: feel the sands washing out from under their feet or

1137
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 2: the hounds coming in, they would do what Otto had

1138
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 2: threatened all those years. They would kill. Yeah, they would

1139
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: be match out. They would do something conspiring and dangerous.

1140
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 2: And instead, Raniera reacts to that with an offer of unit,

1141
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 2: with an offer of what I would say is also

1142
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 2: submission where she apologizes and she says we can unite

1143
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 2: our families like I know I've coursed you offense. She

1144
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 2: even says, you know we were once friends, and sadly

1145
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: Allison cannot see what it is and we get this,

1146
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 2: like season great line delivery from Olivia on the steps.

1147
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: You may do as you wish, husband, when I am

1148
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: cold and in my grave, it is actually I was.

1149
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: I was shocked that she would that. She's you know,

1150
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: not to be patriarchal, but like to speak to the

1151
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: king about his daughter in that way was.

1152
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 2: Who's in control? She is now in control. She babies

1153
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 2: Visara's Oh my king, you must rest you know she

1154
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 2: is in control, and she has no qualms about just

1155
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 2: trashing Raniera.

1156
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: And the blame goes to Visaras as well. He's the ruler.

1157
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: He should be in charge, clearly now with children being born,

1158
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 1: his own children, male child, the thing he's always wanted,

1159
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: that male son. He's got two of them now, eggon, enamoned,

1160
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: and with his grandchildren now in the world, Visas has

1161
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: taken his hands off the wheel.

1162
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 2: He is he's given me.

1163
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: He wants to just be a and honestly, I get it.

1164
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: He wants to enjoy now this family that he has

1165
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: waited and hurt for for so long. He lost Emma

1166
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: in this terrible tragic mission to create this family, and

1167
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: now he has it and he just wants to enjoy it.

1168
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: And he has completely taken his eye off the ball completely.

1169
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: When Lionel hand of the King comes to resign because

1170
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: he's embarrassed over the behavior of his son down in

1171
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: the yard, and because he's well aware of the whispers

1172
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 1: that are going on, and he doesn't want to, you know,

1173
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 1: kind of add to those by continuing to keep his

1174
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: family in King's land. The King absolutely does not want

1175
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: to hear it. But Allison is like, no, no, no, no,

1176
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: why do you want to quit? Why no, let's talk

1177
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah language, yeah, be plain, and you're like,

1178
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: let's talk. Let's say what's on your mind please. Lionel understanding,

1179
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: of course, that to actually to even to even like

1180
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: refer to the rumors, just as rumors would be potentially

1181
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,919
Speaker 1: to damn his son to death, would be to potentially

1182
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: damn ra Neira and the children to death, and he

1183
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 1: just won't go there. He's not going to go there.

1184
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: He just wants he just wants to get out of it. Now.

1185
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: The King, i think, wisely, understanding that Lionel has been

1186
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: giving him some great advice over these years, says no, no,

1187
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to let you do it. You're not. No.

1188
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in this moment when many people who were

1189
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 2: the hand would have used that position to try and

1190
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 2: protect Harwin from the rumors by some kind of legitimization

1191
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: or blackmail or whatever. Instead, Lionel's like, I don't want

1192
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 2: this power. I can't do it with integrity. I need

1193
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 2: to leave. That proves once again that he is the

1194
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: best hand that the king could want, and it traps

1195
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 2: Lionel in this terrible position.

1196
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: Lionel says, fine, if you're ordering me to stay, I

1197
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: will stay. Let me at least escort my son, who

1198
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 1: is my heir, to our seat at Heron Hall, so

1199
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: that you know, he can get situated there and get

1200
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: prepared to rule from there. And of course Harwin has

1201
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: been let go from the City Watch for his outbursts.

1202
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: Allison is furious that the king did not allow Lionel

1203
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: to resign, and also furious that the king just will

1204
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: not see what she feels is the truth, that r

1205
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: nearest children or bastards will not see the truth that

1206
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: is right before his eyes. So she goes to see Laris. Laris.

1207
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: It's interesting, right because Laris is Harwin's younger brother and

1208
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 1: Lionel's son. But clearly the Queen feels like that she

1209
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 1: has an ally in this, and she's complaining about, you know,

1210
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 1: about Lionel and about the king, and Laris is saying, well,

1211
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: of course, you know, you know, of course he tried

1212
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: to my father tried to resign you know he's he

1213
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: wears his honor like a millstone around his neck. And

1214
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: they scheme together about, oh, you wouldn't be great if

1215
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: Otto was still a hand to the king. You know,

1216
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 1: that would be wonderful. Although and then Laris says, there

1217
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: something very interesting. He says, although, you know, we have

1218
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: to admit that that Otto wouldn't give unbiased Like he's

1219
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: your father, you couldn't expect him to give unbiased advice also,

1220
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: and then Allison just bursts, yes, but he's biased to

1221
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: it's me, That's what she's looking for. She feels like

1222
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 1: Rania is getting away with fucking murder out here. I

1223
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 1: need allies, my greatest ally, my father has been exiled

1224
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: from the kingdom. I need him back. He would be

1225
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: partial to me, she says. And then Laris, you can

1226
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: see that the wheels start turning and he starts thinking

1227
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: about how can we get Auto back. He goes down

1228
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 1: to the dungeons and does some things down.

1229
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:26,799
Speaker 2: There, does some nasty things. And the thing that's really interesting,

1230
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 2: if we're talking about power balance, establishing where these characters

1231
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 2: have been for ten years, Laris is like eating a

1232
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 2: meal in what must be the Queen's chambers, because the

1233
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 2: queen has a handmaid who comes, who she dismisses, and

1234
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 2: he eats the food without her there. He doesn't wait

1235
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: for her. He makes some excuse about how the pie

1236
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: shouldn't be let to be cold, and she's like, well,

1237
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 2: you drunk the wine too, and he's like, well, meat

1238
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 2: without wine is a sin. But they obviously that is

1239
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 2: someone who feels that he is equal to her, at

1240
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 2: least when it is the two of them, which is

1241
01:13:58,320 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 2: very interesting.

1242
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: He feels very very comfortable. Let me ask you this.

1243
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:10,600
Speaker 1: The Queen's two greatest allies in this moment, Laris the

1244
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: club Foot and Kristen Cole. Kristen, are they in love

1245
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 1: with her?

1246
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 2: Like?

1247
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: What is the what is what binds them? Christen Cole

1248
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,800
Speaker 1: clearly like the queen offered him her protection. You could

1249
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,560
Speaker 1: you would assume that Christen Cole would be a decapitated

1250
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: body if not for her protection and her insistence that

1251
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 1: he'd be fine, and he is absolutely dedicated to her.

1252
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: Laris I think sees weakness and sees an opportunity, But

1253
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 1: it feels like there's also other things beneath the surface,

1254
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: particularly with Kristine.

1255
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 2: I think the saddest thing is I think the top

1256
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 2: priority for both of them. For Kristin, it definitely began,

1257
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: like you said, for protection. It is clear that he

1258
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: has never suffered any punishment for this. He wanders around

1259
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 2: the castle. He's the King's god, He's the one letting

1260
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,759
Speaker 2: people into Allison's rooms. He basically replaced Raniera with Allison.

1261
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 2: Now whether or not that includes romantically is unclear, but

1262
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 2: the truth is his top priority is his hatred for Raniera.

1263
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 2: And I think the saddest thing about Laris, who's for

1264
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: now whose motivations are still very unclear, but his motivations

1265
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 2: are ambition. When we saw him before he was he

1266
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: was in the shadows, he was quite. He was always quite, looking,

1267
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 2: quite run down and a little bit grubby. When we

1268
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 2: see him here, he is in the Queen's chambers, dressed

1269
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 2: in finery, eating the finest food. He is ambitious and ruthless.

1270
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 2: And I just feel so sad for Allison in that moment,

1271
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 2: because I do think they're in love with her, but

1272
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: I think they're in love with the leverage that she

1273
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 2: gives them and like the potential for what she can

1274
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 2: do for them, rather than any We know that Kristen

1275
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 2: Cole is not a loyal person. He is like a

1276
01:15:58,520 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: little bit.

1277
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: I'm such a Christian. Well, he's very, very loyal to Allison.

1278
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, right now, He's loyal to Alison and seemingly has

1279
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 2: been for ten years maybe out of some He's very

1280
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 2: into this, these these ideas of chivalry and loyalty, even

1281
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 2: though he doesn't truly live by them as we saw

1282
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 2: it the way he treated Renier. But I can imagine

1283
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 2: that because she saved his life, he feels like he

1284
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 2: owes it to her. He's loyal to her. But I

1285
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 2: also feel very sad because I feel like, in Rania's case,

1286
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 2: we get to see, and this is a great juxtaposition,

1287
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: we get to see all the people who are truly

1288
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 2: loyal to her Ley or we get to see Harwin, who,

1289
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 2: whatever version their relationship is, is clearly dedicated to her

1290
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 2: and protecting her and her family. Lionel Strong, He is

1291
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 2: not loyal to Reniera specifically, but he is thoughtful about

1292
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: the stability of the crown. There are people around her

1293
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 2: who are giving her a certain amount of structure and

1294
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 2: safety and support that Allison clearly does not have. Because

1295
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 2: everyone around Allison has an agenda, and Allisons.

1296
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 1: And Allison doesn't realize fully she's.

1297
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,440
Speaker 2: So sucked into her own agenda.

1298
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:13,639
Speaker 1: Yes, in fairness to her, she doesn't, I don't. It's

1299
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 1: not until the end of this episode that she comes

1300
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: to understand that Laris has an agenda. Laris brings some

1301
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: criminals from the dungeons and sends them to heron hall

1302
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 1: to do some dirty business. We go back to Pentos

1303
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,679
Speaker 1: where Lena is giving birth and it does not go well.

1304
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: The Pentochi masters can't do anything for her. Somehow, she

1305
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 1: said she had said previously to Damon that she had

1306
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 1: wanted to die a dragon writer's death, and she gets

1307
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: out of the birthing whatever room she is in. She

1308
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: goes to Vagar and orders Vagar to burn her. It

1309
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 1: takes several orders to heartbreaking leave for Vagar to decide

1310
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: to do it, but eventually it and thus perishes Lena

1311
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: Valarion and her unborn child. Back at the Red Keep,

1312
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: Harwin says goodbye to his the young men that he

1313
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: has taken such an interest in, Jason Luke.

1314
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 2: His favorite sportsman who he must see his favorite.

1315
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: Young athletes, and promises to return. Jason heartbreakingly asks Raniera,

1316
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 1: like is that my father? And she's like, no, you

1317
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 1: are a Targaran. You're a targeting. You're a Targaran. You're

1318
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 1: a targeting.

1319
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 2: That's all that is. You are a target.

1320
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:31,679
Speaker 1: And then we see a really kind of heartwarming moment

1321
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: where Raniera in the yard sees Lene or sparring with

1322
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,560
Speaker 1: Carl and she says, listen, we're going to dragons and

1323
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,840
Speaker 1: we're getting out of here. It's getting too hot around here.

1324
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 1: We can talk about whether that's a wise decision or

1325
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 1: not in a second, but she says, we're going to

1326
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: need all the help we can get. You can bring Karl.

1327
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: That's fine. Back in Haron Hall, a fire breaks out

1328
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 1: in the night after this is after Lionel and Harwin

1329
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 1: arrived there, and in that fire, Lord Lionel Strong and

1330
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:03,799
Speaker 1: his firstborn son, Harwin Strong, breakbones, perish. It's interesting because

1331
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 1: in the in the books, the histories say one that

1332
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 1: this fire was mysterious and who knows how it happened?

1333
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 1: No one knows. And they also say of Laris. All

1334
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: the historians that the fictional historians that wrote these books

1335
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 1: say of Laris and the various things that he does

1336
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: throughout this conflict, that no one knows what motivates him

1337
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 1: and that you know, they all write something that like

1338
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 1: historians will be debating for generations what it is that

1339
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 1: is in Laris Strong's heart and why he did the

1340
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: things that he did. And I think it's ambition for one,

1341
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 1: but also we should keep an eye on We should

1342
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 1: just keep an eye on him because he is a

1343
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: dark individual who is just looking for any advantage for himself,

1344
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 1: and at least for now, it does not feel that

1345
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: his motivations are all of that, all that mysterious. He wants.

1346
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: This benefits him. He gets Haron Hall. He is now

1347
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: the lord of Heron Hall. He is very close to

1348
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: the Queen. He has something on her now, you know,

1349
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 1: he's implicated her in this murder of a very very

1350
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,759
Speaker 1: notable figure head of a very notable house of the Riverlands.

1351
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 1: And this is a big deal.

1352
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 2: And this has big I like that thing that you mentioned,

1353
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 2: because there's the motivation aspect of it. We've seen people

1354
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 2: do terrible things on Game of Thrones, but this man

1355
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 2: just ended his family line essentially for his own game,

1356
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 2: and it had big like he has big Ramsey Bolton energy.

1357
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: In the final scene of this where he's kind of

1358
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 2: playing with the Queen and sort of gaslighting her into

1359
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 2: saying like, but you wanted this, like this is what

1360
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 2: you wanted, And he's kind of obviously having a lot

1361
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 2: of fun with the horror is that he's ruled.

1362
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: Yet he says, we get a narration of him. The

1363
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: Queen comes to see him, and she is clearly listen,

1364
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 1: she wanted auto back, she wanted line al out of

1365
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: the way, but not like this. She it was not

1366
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 1: it was unimaginable, and we will actually talk about this

1367
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 1: more and ask the master kin slaying is the worst

1368
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: thing you can do in this way? A cursed is

1369
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: the kinslayer And it would never have it have like

1370
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: come to her mind, the possibility that laras Strong would

1371
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 1: murder his father and brother because she wanted him to

1372
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 1: do it. And it is it's like a scale is

1373
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: falling from her eyes moment, and she is shocked. And

1374
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: he says, as we see scenes of Arnier and her

1375
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:52,919
Speaker 1: family arrived when Dragonstone, you know, we hear Laris say,

1376
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:56,440
Speaker 1: what are children but a weakness, of folly, of futility

1377
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 1: through them? You imagine you cheap the great darkness of

1378
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: death of its victory. And then he continues to say,

1379
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 1: you know, we may know what is the right thing

1380
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 1: to be done. But love stays the hand. Love is

1381
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: a downfall. And this is some scary shit from Laris

1382
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: and you can see that Allison is and that's scared.

1383
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 2: And we join him in that final moment like he

1384
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 2: was saying that to Allison. So he's basically like, look,

1385
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 2: I I killed my family because it's what needed to

1386
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 2: be done. Love is a myth, like I don't feel it,

1387
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 2: I don't need it.

1388
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: And anything else you need, queen, you know, if you

1389
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 1: need anything else like that, I'm here for you.

1390
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's really sad, But I rewatched. I

1391
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 2: made sure to rewatch the scene. He's so compelling in

1392
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 2: that moment that I went back and rewatched the scene

1393
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 2: where they're eating dinner together. And there is just no

1394
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 2: reading of that conversation that could ever be seen that way.

1395
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 2: We've seen many conversations on Game of Thrones that have

1396
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 2: a dual meaning, where someone may have made a slight

1397
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 2: or an implication that then went on to have fatal

1398
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 2: consequences that they wish they hadn't made. That is not

1399
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 2: what happened here. Allison wanted an ally. She loved the

1400
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 2: idea of her father being there she saw the power

1401
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 2: of having a partial person. Who's next, you.

1402
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: Can convince the king to fire, to actually fire at

1403
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 1: something around the lawn.

1404
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 2: Maybe he can stay in Haaren Hall. Maybe there's a

1405
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 2: reason he needs to stay there. And she Olivia sells

1406
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 2: this so hard that she is just absolutely broken and horrified,

1407
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 2: and suddenly in that moment, realizes who she has aligned

1408
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 2: herself with and who has been giving her advice for

1409
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 2: ten years. I wish it would be a scales fall

1410
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 2: off the eyes moment that would put her on a

1411
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 2: different path. But I feel, like sadly said, we know

1412
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,840
Speaker 2: where this is going, you know, and we have just

1413
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:59,520
Speaker 2: seen Raniera leave to Dragonstone, which has its own huge implications.

1414
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 2: So I think that we know that Bactel is going

1415
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:04,839
Speaker 2: to continue, but that moment is so scared.

1416
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 1: I mean, you could say the first, the first shot

1417
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: in the war has been fired.

1418
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 2: Exactly going to Dragonstone.

1419
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: Is Alison has her and I would I would argue

1420
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: that that was actually an unwise decision. I think the

1421
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: king is aging you want to be as close to

1422
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 1: the seat of power as you can. I understand the

1423
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: under the desired to raise your family and safety from Dragonstone,

1424
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: where the Crown Air always sits, so that's, you know,

1425
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: a sign of legitimacy. At the same time, I would

1426
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 1: argue you stay close. But you look at the allies

1427
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 1: that our two major figures have Allison Laris is using

1428
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: her basically as a vehicle for his own power, and

1429
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: Kristin Cole, who is like curdled and poisoned by rage

1430
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: at Rania and has Allison as his ally in this.

1431
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: And then you have Raniera her her great allies Lenor

1432
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 1: who they have a mutual bond built on respect for

1433
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 1: each other's lives, and though it's imperfect, it has worked

1434
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 1: thus far. And then Harwin Strong, who flat out was

1435
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: clearly in love with Renier like they were in love,

1436
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: and who protected the secret in a way that Kristin

1437
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: Cole would not, who was happy to be a partial

1438
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 1: part of his potential children's lives, And and unwittingly or not,

1439
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: Allison's side has made the first move and taken one

1440
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: of Raniera's allies off the board. And it's huge. It's

1441
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,720
Speaker 1: a huge move. Who up next? More House of the

1442
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 1: Dragon and ask the Master Dragons have arrived on HBO Max,

1443
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: the new HBO original series House of the Dragon have

1444
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 1: you guys heard about? This is a prequel set two

1445
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 1: hundred years before the events of Gamer Thrones. House of

1446
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: the Dragon tells the story of House Targari and locked

1447
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: in an epic battle for the Iron Throne and power

1448
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 1: over the Seven Kingdom. The epic series promises more drama

1449
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: and betrayal than ever. Listen to the official Game of

1450
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 1: Thrones podcast House of the Dragon on HBO, Max, the

1451
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 1: Urheart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. And

1452
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: to celebrate, we're back with some Asda Master from the

1453
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 1: Citadel to answer your questions. Let's go.

1454
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 2: Kristin and many many others asked us, can we infer

1455
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 2: that the father is the one who contributes the silver

1456
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 2: Targarian hair gene from the way that we've seen Ranera's

1457
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 2: children be portrayed in the show.

1458
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: Right, Harwin Strong is allegedly no proof, is allegedly the

1459
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 1: father of Verniera's now three children, and of course they

1460
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: all resemble him, certainly in terms of their hair color.

1461
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 1: Brunette hair.

1462
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 2: No.

1463
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: First of all, we have no better example than John Snow,

1464
01:26:56,280 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: whose father is Regar Targarian, whose mother is Leanna Stark,

1465
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 1: and who he himself? You know, very faithfully and honestly

1466
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: luckily for him had the brown hair, because had he

1467
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:13,360
Speaker 1: had the silver hair, Robert Brathian would have wanted him

1468
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 1: dead and would have been would have easily been able

1469
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: to identify him. There are other examples. Now, certainly it

1470
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 1: seems like hair color is more dominant coming from the

1471
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 1: male side of the parentage. That said, it's not always

1472
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: the case. There's other examples throughout history. Agor Rivers, who

1473
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,719
Speaker 1: is one of the bastards of egg On the fourth

1474
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 1: one of the worst targery and kings, had black hair.

1475
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 1: Darren Targarion, whose son of may Gar, had sandy brown

1476
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 1: hair and a blonde beard. Rainey's Targarian, daughter of Regar

1477
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 1: and Elia Martel Base she rested peace brown hair. So

1478
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: it's not always the case. This is just this is

1479
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 1: just luck basically that these three children weren't born with

1480
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: the silver hair. They could have been, but it just

1481
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,840
Speaker 1: didn't happen. It's it's it's not necessarily a coin flip,

1482
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 1: but it seems it does seem more likely again that

1483
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: if the father has the silver hair, they will be

1484
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,799
Speaker 1: likely to have it. But again, it doesn't have to happen.

1485
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 2: Okay, this was a big, recurring, big, big topic read

1486
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 2: to Hania, Pete, to Erika, and many many others wanted

1487
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 2: to know. And I think this is very interesting today

1488
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 2: because we see a scene that made me think of

1489
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 2: this too. Are the Targarian's fireproof denaries survived the fire

1490
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: when she was held captive captive by the death Raki,

1491
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 2: but Lena died by Vega's flames? What gives? I will

1492
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 2: also say, we saw Damon just ride through the dragon

1493
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 2: fire today and come out unscathed, so's what gives.

1494
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,800
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, we need to draw a distinction

1495
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: between regular fire. A lot of people who asked this

1496
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: question said, you know, Denaris walked out of that Dethrai

1497
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: longhouse completely unscathed. She kicked over the braziers, nothing happened,

1498
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 1: And of course we saw her touch a scalding hot

1499
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: dragon's egg earlier in the run of Game Throns at

1500
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,640
Speaker 1: season one. Nothing happened. She was in that. You know,

1501
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 1: she walked into the funeral pyre of marymas Dour and

1502
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 1: then nothing happened, and then her dragon eggs hatched. Well,

1503
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,560
Speaker 1: I should add first of all that Targerian's being fireproof

1504
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:44,439
Speaker 1: in the books is is not really a thing. George

1505
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:51,800
Speaker 1: has said specifically that when Denaris walks out of Marymasdr's

1506
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 1: funeral Pyre unscathed and she has her three baby dragons,

1507
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 1: that was a specific and unique magical event. That is

1508
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 1: not meant to suggest in any way that she has,

1509
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, any kind of resistance to fire, that Tragerians

1510
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 1: in general have a resistance to fire. That was a

1511
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: that was a one off, unique, essentially miracle event. It's

1512
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 1: important to understand that there's a difference between fire and

1513
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: dragon fire. Dragons are magic, right they they how do

1514
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,679
Speaker 1: how do they just understand Valerian speech as they did?

1515
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:29,800
Speaker 1: You know, Denaris is a great example of this, right.

1516
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 1: You know, we're seeing the dragon trainers at work in

1517
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:39,040
Speaker 1: the dragon pit now, But Denaris's dragons, Danny's dragons just

1518
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,839
Speaker 1: new speech. They understood it. They understood the commands immediately.

1519
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: How does a bond between the dragon writer and the

1520
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 1: dragon work. We don't know a lot of these things.

1521
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 1: But the thing we do know is that dragons are

1522
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:53,719
Speaker 1: magical creatures. They are referred to in the books often

1523
01:30:54,000 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 1: as fire made flesh, and the fire they generate is

1524
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: just different than regular fire. First of all, just in

1525
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 1: terms of temperature and intensity. It comes out as a

1526
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 1: constant jet of flame, unlike the other kind of fire

1527
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,719
Speaker 1: that you find in this world that's more like ambient

1528
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 1: heat and smoke. Right, this is a jet of focused

1529
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:27,719
Speaker 1: flame on something and it's been used for magical purposes

1530
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 1: in the past. Valarian steel, we can surmise it's this

1531
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: isn't forced or known, but is heavily suggested that Valarian

1532
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 1: steel was forged using magical spells, some kind of understanding

1533
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: of metallurgy that is advanced and now has been lost,

1534
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 1: and dragonfire as the catalyst for forging this material. And

1535
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: of course Valerian steel along with dragon glass, are the

1536
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: only two substances that can slay White Walkers. And what

1537
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: do they have in common. They they're kind of solidified fire.

1538
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 1: So yeah, yes, Targarians and those with Targarian lineage are

1539
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 1: resistant to fire. But there's a difference between fire resistant

1540
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 1: and fire proof, and there is a difference between dragon

1541
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 1: fire and regular flame. Now we do see Damon and

1542
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 1: Lena playing with the fire. They kind of like roll

1543
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 1: through this kind of like plume of dragon fire up

1544
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 1: in the sky. Again, resists like that's resistant. We're flying

1545
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 1: through a kind of like burst of fire. It is

1546
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: very different than a dragon, and we're talking about Vagar,

1547
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:48,000
Speaker 1: the biggest oldest dragon alive right now, releasing a constant

1548
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:53,439
Speaker 1: and focused jet of dragon flame onto a Targerian person.

1549
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 1: That's gonna incinerate a Targarian, that's gonna incinerate metal, that's

1550
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 1: going to That's how the iron throne was forged. That

1551
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: has taken out armies. That is just a different kind

1552
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 1: of flame.

1553
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 2: Okay, Zachary asks, could King Vssara's have sent Damon to

1554
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,879
Speaker 2: the wall? Was the watch relevant during this time period?

1555
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: So I'm assuming this is for This would be for

1556
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: the crime or the rumor that he had slept with.

1557
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 2: Or just getting him out of, getting rid.

1558
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 1: Of, get him out of the way, get him out.

1559
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 1: He could do that, although to do that would be

1560
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:35,679
Speaker 1: to admit that Rania in this kind of patriarchal society,

1561
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 1: was quote unquote sullied and that who and you know

1562
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 1: we've heard Vesaras say, well, who would want to marry

1563
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: her in a situation like he says this to Damon,

1564
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 1: And to admit that would be to essentially damage any

1565
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,600
Speaker 1: kind of like future marriage hopes for her, And so

1566
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:57,479
Speaker 1: he would never do that. But to answer your other question, yeah,

1567
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: the Watch was was relevant during this time period. Though

1568
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: the Watch has been like steadily losing its importance ever

1569
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: since its formation during the Long Night, when they you know,

1570
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: played a pivotal role in beating back to the White

1571
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 1: Walkers unknown centuries ago, like ten thousand years ago, a

1572
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 1: very very long time ago. They've been steadily losing prestige because,

1573
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: of course, the Walkers don't return until the events of

1574
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones again thousands and thousands of years later,

1575
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: and so the mission had kind of changed from you know,

1576
01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: saving the world to basically wildling management. You know, not

1577
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 1: to underrate some of the severity of these occasional wildling incursions.

1578
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: Sometimes they do. They have seized significant territory and even

1579
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 1: sacked important castles like over the course of history, but

1580
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 1: it is significantly a less prestigious mission than like saving

1581
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: the entire world from ultimate evil. Right that said, though

1582
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 1: the Watch has been kind of like eroding before the

1583
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 1: realm's eyes, it is still it is in much better

1584
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 1: shape than it was when we catch up with it

1585
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: in Game of Thrones. First of all, records indicate that

1586
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,400
Speaker 1: when Agon came ashore, there were ten thousand men in

1587
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: the Watch that doin a little to like less than

1588
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 1: on thy nine hundred something by the time Game of

1589
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 1: Thrones hits and john snow joins the order, So we

1590
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:31,600
Speaker 1: should assume two hundred years prior to the events of

1591
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:34,799
Speaker 1: that show that the Watch is in just better shape

1592
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 1: than it is when we meet it in Game of Thrones.

1593
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:41,799
Speaker 1: And also it had received a kind of a boost

1594
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:46,040
Speaker 1: semi recently fifty years before House of the Dragon, when

1595
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 1: King Jaharis was early in his reign, he was touring

1596
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:51,759
Speaker 1: the realm, kind of like getting to know the realm

1597
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 1: and meeting with his lords and the various people that

1598
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 1: he rules over, and Queen Alison came with him, and

1599
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 1: she took a real interest in the Watch, toured the castles,

1600
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:08,759
Speaker 1: spent time with them, and it was at her urging

1601
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 1: and with consultations with Lord Alaric Stark, who is the

1602
01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,160
Speaker 1: Lord of Winterfeld at the time, that the Watch was

1603
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: given an increased amount of land with which to forage from,

1604
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 1: so called the New Gift. Originally, the Watch was given

1605
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:30,439
Speaker 1: this kind of band of land south directly south of

1606
01:36:30,479 --> 01:36:35,400
Speaker 1: the Wall that was called the Gift, and at Alisand's urging,

1607
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:39,759
Speaker 1: that amount of land was doubled to twenty five another

1608
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: twenty five leagues to fifty leagues south of the wall,

1609
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 1: all of this constant band of land south of the wall,

1610
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:51,560
Speaker 1: so that the Watch could more readily provide for itself.

1611
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 1: And this was this really kind of like up the

1612
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:59,000
Speaker 1: prestige of the Watch in Alison. Queen Alisan was beloved

1613
01:37:00,120 --> 01:37:03,360
Speaker 1: by the Watch for this and this was within living memory.

1614
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:06,679
Speaker 1: So the Watch is relevant at this time, though really

1615
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:10,640
Speaker 1: not an option for King vassaras in to get rid

1616
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:11,639
Speaker 1: of Damon at this time.

1617
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes look I like your reasoning there of

1618
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 2: like the admance of guilt if you punish him, because

1619
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 2: like you said, the Watch is relevant, the Watch is

1620
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 2: relatively prestigious. But you can't send him the because then

1621
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:22,720
Speaker 2: people will know.

1622
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 1: People will be like, yeah, oh no, that's true.

1623
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 2: Okay, Mike asks. And this is another one. I think

1624
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 2: a lot of people are really interested in who can

1625
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:35,160
Speaker 2: ride dragons? Has there ever been someone with no Targarian

1626
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:37,639
Speaker 2: lineage at all who has ever tamed and ridden a dragon?

1627
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:40,519
Speaker 2: Can you explain the concept of dragon seeds?

1628
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:48,640
Speaker 1: Sure? Well, the Targerians are one of the family of

1629
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:53,240
Speaker 1: dragon lords. The Oligarchic kind of rulers of old Valeria.

1630
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 1: There are many families such as it's like thirty or

1631
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 1: so families of which the Targarians were kind of like

1632
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: a not that important member of. So, yeah, there were

1633
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 1: previously many, many, many families that could ride dragons. Only

1634
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: the Targarians survived the Doom of the dragon Writers. There's

1635
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 1: lots of people with Valerian lineage. In fact, a lot

1636
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,720
Speaker 1: of the population of the free cities of Essos, as

1637
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,560
Speaker 1: we've talked about, are people that you know, are Valerian

1638
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 1: colonists and people with Valerian lineage, But the Targerians are

1639
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: the only dragon writers that survived post doom. We don't

1640
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:37,000
Speaker 1: know of anybody who is not Targarian or have some

1641
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 1: amount of Targarian lineage that has ever ridden a dragon.

1642
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,800
Speaker 1: We don't know that that has ever happened. So by

1643
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,760
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, you have to be a Targarian,

1644
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: at least in part to be able to ride a dragon.

1645
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 1: The dragon seeds are Targarian bastards who have again some

1646
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:01,200
Speaker 1: sort of some you know, one quarter half some amount

1647
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 1: of Targerian blood, but are not you know, produced by

1648
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: royal marriage and any kind of authentic, legitimate means who

1649
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:13,400
Speaker 1: potentially could have the ability to ride dragons because they

1650
01:39:13,400 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 1: have that Targarian blood. So basically the only people that

1651
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:20,720
Speaker 1: can ride dragons right now as far as we know,

1652
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:23,439
Speaker 1: are people with Targarian blood.

1653
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is this is like, I love this

1654
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:28,880
Speaker 2: one because I feel like it's a hot theory. This

1655
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 2: episode is really really leans into it with the appearance

1656
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 2: of all the rats and kind of the focus of

1657
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:38,720
Speaker 2: the rats. So there is someone in our discord who

1658
01:39:38,760 --> 01:39:42,120
Speaker 2: had also proposed this theory, but there's so many people

1659
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: in the House of the Dragon discord that I couldn't

1660
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 2: find it. But I want to say that that was

1661
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 2: the first place I saw this theory, like almost straight

1662
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 2: after the episode came out, So I want to shout

1663
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:52,960
Speaker 2: out to them. But we got questions from a lot

1664
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 2: of people about this. Nathan Tony, a bunch of other people.

1665
01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible that anyone we currently know

1666
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:02,920
Speaker 2: in this show is a Green Sea Walk skin changer.

1667
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:07,559
Speaker 2: There is a theory online that credit to Joe Magician, that.

1668
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:10,479
Speaker 1: Great Joe Magician, who is a good friend and a

1669
01:40:10,520 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 1: great a great content creator in the A Song of

1670
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 1: Ice and Fire has the Dragon Game of Thrones community.

1671
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that prediction, which currently feels very likely, is

1672
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 2: that Laris Strong is a walk who is potentially using

1673
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:31,759
Speaker 2: rats as his wisper network.

1674
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:39,120
Speaker 1: In King's Landing, I would say that, of course it's

1675
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:44,280
Speaker 1: possible that Laris is walking into the rats, and that

1676
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:47,400
Speaker 1: is how is he's hearing all these conversations. And we

1677
01:40:47,479 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 1: know from seeing him over the course of this series

1678
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,720
Speaker 1: that he loves to put himself in the middle of

1679
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 1: conversations and just kind of sit there, understanding that because

1680
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:59,560
Speaker 1: of his disability, people are not going to see him

1681
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 1: honestly as a full person, that just see him as

1682
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 1: like an object that is sitting there. Now. That said,

1683
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: I lean against it only because, well, for various reasons,

1684
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 1: but mainly because most of the Wargs the green Seers

1685
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:27,040
Speaker 1: that we know of from the books are Northerners Starks included,

1686
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 1: and folks from North of the Wall wildlings. There are

1687
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:40,320
Speaker 1: a very very few examples of Wargs being born south

1688
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:43,479
Speaker 1: of the Neck, not in the North. Brendan Rivers aka

1689
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,840
Speaker 1: the Three Ied Crow remember him, a famous Targarian bastard,

1690
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:49,560
Speaker 1: was very involved in the Blackfire rebellions and then was

1691
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,800
Speaker 1: sent to the Wall in what after the revelation of

1692
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Agon's prophecy now seems like a very very pointed plan

1693
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 1: hatched by egg On the fifth with his allies to

1694
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 1: kind of prepare for the appearance of the White Walkers.

1695
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:10,639
Speaker 1: Brendan Rivers, the three Eyed Crow had some green seaing ability.

1696
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 1: We know, Okay, there's a Southerner that's basically it. That's

1697
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 1: basically it. There's some other rumors of houses like the

1698
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:31,000
Speaker 1: far Winds, who you know, could take on the forms

1699
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:34,720
Speaker 1: of lions and walruses and stuff like that. That's just

1700
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 1: kind of like rumor and conjecture. And so I lean

1701
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: away from it only for that reason that well, there's

1702
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:49,960
Speaker 1: other reasons, but I lean away for it for that

1703
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 1: reason because it feels like this is a thing that

1704
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 1: we associate with one the blood of the first men

1705
01:42:57,400 --> 01:43:02,360
Speaker 1: Brendan Rivers aside, who knows how that happened, and the North,

1706
01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: the culture and the quote unquote magic of the North,

1707
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:09,679
Speaker 1: and the kind of like bloodlines that seem very strong

1708
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:14,559
Speaker 1: beyond the wall because like all the the preponderance as

1709
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:18,439
Speaker 1: start again Stark family aside, because we think that certainly

1710
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 1: the bonds that the Starks showed that they had with

1711
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:25,360
Speaker 1: their with their dire wolves is very wargy, okay, And

1712
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 1: then Aria in the books, Aria has many dreams where

1713
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:32,719
Speaker 1: she is like running with her with her former dire wolf,

1714
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:35,360
Speaker 1: and that feels very wargy. And certainly John snow does

1715
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:37,760
Speaker 1: things that feel like a wark. But aside from them,

1716
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 1: it's like all wildlings, those are all the all the warks.

1717
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:45,880
Speaker 1: So now the Strongs are a family descended from the

1718
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:48,559
Speaker 1: blood of the first Men. Okay, So I'm gonna say

1719
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,080
Speaker 1: that it's it's possible, but I kind of lean against it.

1720
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:57,000
Speaker 1: And then the kind of cheating reason is it feels

1721
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,439
Speaker 1: like not it story wise, it feels like a thing

1722
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 1: they wouldn't do, but who knows it could it? Certainly

1723
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:06,040
Speaker 1: we are meant to look at those rats and wonder

1724
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:08,240
Speaker 1: where they are coming from. I feel like it's an

1725
01:44:08,280 --> 01:44:11,520
Speaker 1: allusion to the fact that there are these secret passages

1726
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:16,160
Speaker 1: that riddle the castle, and not to do anything spoilery,

1727
01:44:16,280 --> 01:44:20,280
Speaker 1: but those passageways absolutely come into play in a way

1728
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:31,680
Speaker 1: that in a way that deals with rats. So I

1729
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:35,640
Speaker 1: lean know, but you never know. And certainly, again, the

1730
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 1: Strong descend from the blood of the first Man, so

1731
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:43,120
Speaker 1: maybe maybe there's a random warg out there that knows

1732
01:44:43,160 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 1: how to do this, and certainly Laris feels like a

1733
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 1: very ominous figure. But I kind of doubt it, but

1734
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:48,320
Speaker 1: we'll see.

1735
01:44:48,520 --> 01:44:51,280
Speaker 2: I like you, I think you're right. He wouldn't even

1736
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:53,640
Speaker 2: if hypothetically it was a green sea, the way that

1737
01:44:53,720 --> 01:44:56,040
Speaker 2: society is set up in kings Landing, he wouldn't actually

1738
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 2: even need to walk because he is just invisible to everyone. Yes,

1739
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,400
Speaker 2: because of his disability in his standing. Okay, now, this

1740
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 2: is a very interesting one from Emily that I really

1741
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 2: like because it also leads to a question I want

1742
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:11,040
Speaker 2: to ask you that's kind of very related to this.

1743
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:14,639
Speaker 2: Lena was talking to her daughter and she mentioned that

1744
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,360
Speaker 2: Lena herself didn't get a dragon until she was fifteen.

1745
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 2: Does that mean the egg didn't hatch until then, or

1746
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:21,559
Speaker 2: that she got it another way?

1747
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 1: That means, first of all, we should understand that as

1748
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:34,919
Speaker 1: a member of the Valerian family, it's only like recently

1749
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 1: that the Valerians became dragon writers when Rainie married Corliss

1750
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 1: and brought that ability through the through the joining of

1751
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:47,640
Speaker 1: Valerian blood and her own dragon, which you know, and

1752
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:49,439
Speaker 1: the fact that the vegar is out there, you know,

1753
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:51,840
Speaker 1: laying eggs and flying around as a wild dragon, and

1754
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 1: brought that possibility to House Valarian. But no, what this

1755
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:00,360
Speaker 1: means probably is that it may be that it may

1756
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:02,800
Speaker 1: be that Lena was presented with an eggat it didn't hatch.

1757
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:08,200
Speaker 1: But she rides Vagar, which we knew from earlier in

1758
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:11,360
Speaker 1: the from a conversation that she had when she was

1759
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:13,479
Speaker 1: like eleven with the king. Remember that when they were

1760
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:16,040
Speaker 1: walking in the gardens and she said, you know, tell

1761
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 1: me about Valarian. Vagar is still you know, what do

1762
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:21,320
Speaker 1: you remember a Vagar? And then she talks about how

1763
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,920
Speaker 1: the fishermen down in Spicetown, which is a trading town

1764
01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: on drift Mark, which is the seat of House Valerian,

1765
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 1: are always talking about they can hear the dragon song

1766
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:36,840
Speaker 1: of Vagar, and that it sounds sad. That was meant

1767
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:40,320
Speaker 1: to heavily suggest to us that wherever Vagar has been

1768
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:45,240
Speaker 1: since the death of its last rider, bail On the Brave,

1769
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:52,959
Speaker 1: the fourth son of Jaharis, that it's probably been nesting

1770
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:57,800
Speaker 1: around drift Mark. So, while we don't know the circumstances,

1771
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:00,839
Speaker 1: and I'm sad that this happened off screen, my assumption

1772
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:05,920
Speaker 1: is that Lena found where Vegar was nesting, and then

1773
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:10,320
Speaker 1: she has that Targarian lineage through Rainy, so would be

1774
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: able to make that to forge that bond with a dragon.

1775
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:18,680
Speaker 1: And then my friend Disease, who runs the History of

1776
01:47:18,720 --> 01:47:23,320
Speaker 1: West's podcast with his partner Ashaya, tweeted today quote seems

1777
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: like a good time to remind folks that there are none, zero,

1778
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 1: zilch known examples of a Targarian trying to bond with

1779
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,680
Speaker 1: an unbonded dragon and getting hurt or even killed in

1780
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:36,680
Speaker 1: the process, all of which is to say, what we

1781
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:39,640
Speaker 1: know from the books is that when Targarians approach a

1782
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:44,120
Speaker 1: dragon that is free to bond with, they're almost always successful,

1783
01:47:44,120 --> 01:47:47,800
Speaker 1: and certainly always successful like it never fails. So that's

1784
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:51,400
Speaker 1: Lena probably just found where Vagar was nesting, made the approach.

1785
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:52,840
Speaker 1: Clearly it was successful.

1786
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So when one of my firsite moments is Lena

1787
01:47:56,479 --> 01:47:58,880
Speaker 2: says Terina, her daughter, who hasn't you know the egg

1788
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 2: hasn't hatched, she says, you are Targarian. You've just got

1789
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 2: to claim it. That's obviously what Lena did with Vega.

1790
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:07,599
Speaker 2: What do you think the likelihood is that Rayner claims

1791
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:11,320
Speaker 2: Vega now Lena is dead.

1792
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:15,160
Speaker 1: I think that that's the plan. Yeah, right, I think

1793
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:17,920
Speaker 1: that that's the plan, and I think that that is

1794
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: the plan. I'll just say that I think that's the plan.

1795
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:22,840
Speaker 2: That's a good idea that somebody may have. I thought

1796
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:25,000
Speaker 2: that was I really like the way they said that.

1797
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:30,320
Speaker 2: And finally, I mean, this is just I think everyone,

1798
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:32,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to have any necessary

1799
01:48:32,479 --> 01:48:34,400
Speaker 2: insight into this, because I think this is just a

1800
01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 2: question that the show will likely answer at some point.

1801
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 2: But Owen says, it seems like Damon has everything he

1802
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,559
Speaker 2: needed to sees power for himself. True, what has he

1803
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:44,639
Speaker 2: been doing for ten years?

1804
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 1: I understand the feeling and the suspicion even that that

1805
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:56,599
Speaker 1: would be Damon's end goal. First of all, I think

1806
01:48:56,640 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 1: everything that we've seen is that Damon greatly loves his

1807
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:04,320
Speaker 1: brother and honestly just wants attention from his brother. Everything

1808
01:49:04,360 --> 01:49:06,200
Speaker 1: he does is to get attention from his brother, and

1809
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 1: he doesn't get it. That's when he loses his bearings. Next,

1810
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:13,160
Speaker 1: I think that we also need to understand remember Allison's

1811
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 1: shock that Laris would do what he has done, which

1812
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:19,360
Speaker 1: is set that would basically murder his father and his brother.

1813
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:23,680
Speaker 1: Kin slaying is the worst thing that you can do

1814
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 1: in this world. You are cursed even in war. If

1815
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:32,040
Speaker 1: a if a family melmer kills another family member, that

1816
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 1: is a stain that stays with you. Megor, the cruel

1817
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:37,880
Speaker 1: third King of west ros usurped the throne from the

1818
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 1: air of the second King of west ros Anus. When

1819
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:46,040
Speaker 1: he killed yet another Agon, when he killed Crown Prince Agon,

1820
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:50,720
Speaker 1: son of Anus, the stain of the kinslayer was on

1821
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,800
Speaker 1: him and he was seen even from that moment, even

1822
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 1: though it was in the midst of a war technically

1823
01:49:57,439 --> 01:50:00,040
Speaker 1: you know, an illegal war, you have to say. But

1824
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:04,080
Speaker 1: like it was in war that he slayed him, that

1825
01:50:04,160 --> 01:50:06,800
Speaker 1: stain of kin slang stayed with him. So it's it

1826
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 1: is really it's actually unthinkable. Weirdly, it sounds weird to

1827
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 1: say it's unthinkable for everyone in this world, including Damon,

1828
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 1: that Damon would do this. And when the possibility is

1829
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:23,679
Speaker 1: raised earlier in the season by uh, I think it's

1830
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:28,000
Speaker 1: a master of coin Lymon Beesberry, it's a shocking. He

1831
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:29,680
Speaker 1: doesn't come right out it'd say it. He kind of

1832
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 1: suggests it, like, oh, what if plots were out there

1833
01:50:32,360 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 1: against the king or something to that effect. That is

1834
01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:38,960
Speaker 1: even that's a shocking charge to even bring up. And

1835
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:42,840
Speaker 1: it's just a thing that no one would do. They

1836
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:46,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't They actually wouldn't do it. If Damon was actually

1837
01:50:46,720 --> 01:50:50,080
Speaker 1: going to depose his brother, he would do something like

1838
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:53,320
Speaker 1: lock him up in a dungeon forever. He wouldn't actually

1839
01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:58,799
Speaker 1: kill him. Because you know, in this world, your family

1840
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,360
Speaker 1: is the only kind of security that there actually is.

1841
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:06,000
Speaker 1: You know, everybody can turn against you, accept your family,

1842
01:51:06,120 --> 01:51:09,839
Speaker 1: and that is a sacred, sacred, sacred thing to these people.

1843
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:16,680
Speaker 1: And to uphold that, all but the most evil of

1844
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:20,639
Speaker 1: these characters would never strike out at their family members.

1845
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:23,639
Speaker 1: Why do we know that Laris is an evil, cold

1846
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:25,479
Speaker 1: hearted son of a bitch because he went through with it.

1847
01:51:25,560 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, I'll come my I'll kill my dad,

1848
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:30,839
Speaker 1: come my brother, no problem. So yeah, Damon would actually

1849
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 1: not do that. He would never do it. That's it

1850
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:35,000
Speaker 1: for this week's Ask the Master. Don't miss the new

1851
01:51:35,080 --> 01:51:37,080
Speaker 1: HBO original series House of the Dragon. Have you heard

1852
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:40,599
Speaker 1: about this show, folks, streaming now on HBO Max Sundays

1853
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:42,960
Speaker 1: at nine pm. And of course we want to hear

1854
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,559
Speaker 1: from you. Send your questions to Ask the Master at

1855
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Up next, we leave Westros for the

1856
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:53,080
Speaker 1: beautiful South Lens of Middle Earth to discuss Lord of

1857
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:57,599
Speaker 1: the Rings, Rings of Power. The first vote by mail

1858
01:51:57,600 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: ballots are hitting people's mailboxes, and the earliest in person

1859
01:52:01,439 --> 01:52:03,960
Speaker 1: early voting starts this week. Do you know how you're voting?

1860
01:52:04,720 --> 01:52:07,200
Speaker 1: If your answer is it's September, I haven't thought about

1861
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:09,400
Speaker 1: it at all, this is your week to get your

1862
01:52:09,400 --> 01:52:12,600
Speaker 1: shit together. Voter suppression efforts have ramped up following the

1863
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:15,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty election, making it even more critical to ensure

1864
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:19,040
Speaker 1: that every American has access to the ballot box. At

1865
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:21,760
Speaker 1: vote save America, you can find the most up to

1866
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:23,840
Speaker 1: date information on what you need to make sure your

1867
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 1: vote is counted in all fifty states and the District

1868
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:32,160
Speaker 1: of Columbia. Use your Ballot Ready tool to request your ballot,

1869
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:34,240
Speaker 1: find out how you can return it, or get a

1870
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 1: reminder from when in person early voting locations become available

1871
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:40,439
Speaker 1: in your state. To win in November, it's going to

1872
01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:42,320
Speaker 1: take every single one of us making our plan to vote,

1873
01:52:42,360 --> 01:52:45,040
Speaker 1: getting involved in reminding everyone we know to do the

1874
01:52:45,040 --> 01:52:47,960
Speaker 1: same thing. Once you've made your plan to vote, visit

1875
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,880
Speaker 1: vote Saveamerica dot com slash every Last Vote to find

1876
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:54,040
Speaker 1: out what you can do next, including donating to the

1877
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,559
Speaker 1: Every Last Vote Fund to directly support the work of

1878
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:00,480
Speaker 1: community organizations, organizers and volunteers in states that are actively

1879
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:05,560
Speaker 1: working to battle disenfranchisement in communities of color, including in Arizona,

1880
01:53:05,600 --> 01:53:20,080
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, in Michigan, and more. We're stepping out of

1881
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:23,599
Speaker 1: the airlock and into the southlands looking for a king

1882
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:26,439
Speaker 1: right now. It's an open position if anybody wants to

1883
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 1: take the job to discuss Lord of the Rings. Rings

1884
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:31,920
Speaker 1: of Power episodes five and six. First of all, quick

1885
01:53:32,520 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 1: recap of episode five, which is basically the setup episode

1886
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:39,360
Speaker 1: for the battle that we see in episode six. We

1887
01:53:39,400 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 1: see the stranger protecting the Harfoots using some kind of

1888
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:49,519
Speaker 1: magic and certainly some kind of ominously magic that involves cold,

1889
01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:56,120
Speaker 1: leading us to suspect heavily, very heavily. Evily's this fact

1890
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 1: that potentially the stranger is Saron, although a souron who

1891
01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:03,400
Speaker 1: doesn't remember yes.

1892
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:06,760
Speaker 2: Saron, or potentially someone who will become a ring rate

1893
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 2: some kind of deep connection because when Galadriel in the

1894
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:14,479
Speaker 2: first episode is she describes the places that she finds

1895
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:17,719
Speaker 2: Saron's mark is like so cold that they will freeze

1896
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:20,800
Speaker 2: any flame, you know. So this ice magic seems like

1897
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:23,200
Speaker 2: a bad bad times for the stranger.

1898
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:28,559
Speaker 1: Over a Numenor, Galadriel convinces the mysterious Halbrend to join

1899
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:32,680
Speaker 1: the Numenor expedition that is heading for Middle Earth by

1900
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:36,880
Speaker 1: telling by sharing with him her previous experience is going

1901
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:41,800
Speaker 1: to battle against Soaron Kevin, son of the advisor Farizon,

1902
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: attempts to destroy the expedition ships. A Silder catches him

1903
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:48,480
Speaker 1: and saves him when the ships explode, and then a

1904
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:51,040
Speaker 1: sil door manages to kind of sneak into the expedition

1905
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:55,920
Speaker 1: kind of through the back door. Gil Glad reveals that

1906
01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:00,879
Speaker 1: the true motivation for sending Elron to Duran is that, folks,

1907
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:05,839
Speaker 1: the tree is dying. The tree that is the source

1908
01:55:06,040 --> 01:55:10,320
Speaker 1: of life, and the long life of the elves is

1909
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:13,200
Speaker 1: rotting from the inside. There's a darkness inside of it.

1910
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:16,520
Speaker 1: No one knows what to do. They've been keeping this secret,

1911
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:19,760
Speaker 1: which I'm sorry, Gilgilad is a dick. You got you.

1912
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:23,280
Speaker 1: Why are you keeping this to only like the leadership

1913
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 1: you should have everybody, because what's going to help solve

1914
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:35,360
Speaker 1: this is as many elves working on this problem as you.

1915
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:38,440
Speaker 2: Can get the fact they might know some other source

1916
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:39,000
Speaker 2: of mythrill.

1917
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:44,440
Speaker 1: It's absolutely dumb. And so Elrond, who had suspected the

1918
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 1: dwarves had found a kind of a source of liquefied

1919
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:54,040
Speaker 1: light that had dripped into the caves, into their caverns,

1920
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 1: into their minds, has sent Elrond unwittingly there to seek

1921
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 1: out this source of life. And l Ron admits to

1922
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:04,880
Speaker 1: Duran that, yeah, I didn't come here just because I

1923
01:56:04,920 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 1: missed my friend after decades. It's actually because the Elms

1924
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:15,760
Speaker 1: are not going to survive. THEO shows the black sword

1925
01:56:15,840 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 1: hilt to Waldrigg, who then is like, oh, yeah, Sarn, baby,

1926
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:26,280
Speaker 1: this is going to help Saron conquer the Southlands. He

1927
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:29,640
Speaker 1: thinks that Adar is Sarn, and so he brings half

1928
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:32,120
Speaker 1: of the Southland people over to Adar to pledge their

1929
01:56:32,160 --> 01:56:35,400
Speaker 1: allegiance to him, and we're preparing for battle. That brings

1930
01:56:35,480 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 1: us to episode six, Udun, which is another word for Mordor,

1931
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:44,720
Speaker 1: which is directed by Charlotte Branstrom, written by Nicholas Adams,

1932
01:56:45,080 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 1: Justin Doebel, JD. Payne, and Patrick McKay. I immediately thought

1933
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 1: of the very first word spoken in this series, which

1934
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:56,840
Speaker 1: is nothing is evil in the beginning. I think that

1935
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,960
Speaker 1: is the theme of our show. I think that is

1936
01:57:01,160 --> 01:57:03,400
Speaker 1: what we are meant to take away from everything we

1937
01:57:03,400 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 1: are seeing. And I thought of that because the very

1938
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:09,880
Speaker 1: first thing we see in episode six is what we

1939
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:12,760
Speaker 1: think is. I was immediately like, oh shit, it's on.

1940
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: We see this black mailed, armored fist digging in the dirt.

1941
01:57:18,480 --> 01:57:21,600
Speaker 1: Is it Soura, No, it's a Dar, and a Dar

1942
01:57:21,880 --> 01:57:26,200
Speaker 1: is planting seeds and saying in Elvish new life and

1943
01:57:26,240 --> 01:57:29,720
Speaker 1: defiance of death. He then makes like a college football

1944
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:34,560
Speaker 1: speech to the Orcs, saying is saying, hey, Orcs, us

1945
01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:37,760
Speaker 1: and our human allies, we are going to seize these lands.

1946
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,280
Speaker 1: We are going to make a homeland for ourselves. And

1947
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:44,800
Speaker 1: they then enter the fortress of the Elves that had

1948
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:46,960
Speaker 1: been protecting these lands. Of course, they find it empty,

1949
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:50,040
Speaker 1: but Arondier is there. He's been lying in wait, and

1950
01:57:50,080 --> 01:57:54,760
Speaker 1: at at the most heroic possible moment, he fires an

1951
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:58,400
Speaker 1: arrow that severs the cables that are holding up the tower.

1952
01:57:58,560 --> 01:58:00,640
Speaker 1: The tower then crashes down on the or He takes

1953
01:58:00,640 --> 01:58:03,880
Speaker 1: out a bunch of Orcs down in the village, Bronwyn

1954
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:06,879
Speaker 1: and the townsfolks celebrate, and then they go about preparing

1955
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:12,840
Speaker 1: their defenses elves doing elf shit. The fucking elves. Man

1956
01:58:16,600 --> 01:58:21,160
Speaker 1: Adar's motivations are really fascinating over the course of this episode.

1957
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:25,560
Speaker 1: This is like a really I find myself thinking about

1958
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 1: this character of a corrupted elf who you know, one

1959
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:35,120
Speaker 1: of the things we've always wondered about the Orcs is

1960
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 1: like what makes them tick? And here we are seeing

1961
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:45,600
Speaker 1: someone who feel, despite being an Elf, feels a kinship

1962
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:51,000
Speaker 1: with the Urus and wants to build a safe haven

1963
01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:55,480
Speaker 1: for them where you know, I mean to hear him

1964
01:58:55,480 --> 01:58:58,560
Speaker 1: tell it, where they can just be away from everyone

1965
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,520
Speaker 1: and have their own land, you know, away from threat.

1966
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 1: But clearly it is a much more ominous mission than that.

1967
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:10,880
Speaker 2: Yes, and we we learn that there is. We learn

1968
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 2: the reasons why as we get into this episode, and

1969
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:18,040
Speaker 2: there's kind of a massive reveal that again answers a

1970
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 2: question that a lot of had been very contested about

1971
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:24,040
Speaker 2: the origins of the Orcs. So this is just so

1972
01:59:24,160 --> 01:59:30,560
Speaker 2: interesting and to to add a what is essentially humanity

1973
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 2: to the ur who else, who have often been seen

1974
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:36,080
Speaker 2: as like you can just get any any Orc, can

1975
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:37,880
Speaker 2: just get in a fight with another Orc, can kill it,

1976
01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:41,600
Speaker 2: Like there's no loyalty, there's no family, there's no kinship,

1977
01:59:41,640 --> 01:59:44,760
Speaker 2: there's no brotherhood. So to contradict that by introducing a

1978
01:59:44,840 --> 01:59:47,000
Speaker 2: character who you know, they his name means father. They

1979
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:49,680
Speaker 2: call him Father's that's what they call him. He's the

1980
01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:54,520
Speaker 2: father of the Orcs, who has this mission that is

1981
01:59:55,160 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 2: allegedly a selfless one of creating a.

1982
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:02,320
Speaker 1: In a you're twisted evil way.

1983
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's he's not doing it in a good way.

1984
02:00:05,200 --> 02:00:07,960
Speaker 2: But he is so desperate to help the people that

1985
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:10,880
Speaker 2: he sees as his family is following that he is

1986
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 2: willing to create this this land, and as we find

1987
02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:18,120
Speaker 2: out to sub from what we learn this episode, he

1988
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:20,040
Speaker 2: is not doing it in service of Suron. He is

1989
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:24,400
Speaker 2: doing it to subvitons against Sorry he is, he's he

1990
02:00:24,520 --> 02:00:26,640
Speaker 2: is to hear him tell it, and who.

1991
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Knows manifestly opposed to Souron's mission and wants freedom of

1992
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:36,840
Speaker 1: the Uruks from sourn wants them to be able to

1993
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:39,240
Speaker 1: chart their own course. Now, I found it. One thing

1994
02:00:39,240 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 1: I found really fascinating, and I found myself thinking about

1995
02:00:43,320 --> 02:00:47,640
Speaker 1: a lot, is that the elves were stationed here in

1996
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:52,320
Speaker 1: the Southlands for generations and the humans hated it, viewed

1997
02:00:52,360 --> 02:00:57,560
Speaker 1: them essentially as like colonial oppressors. Here come the Uruks,

1998
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 1: who are whose mission is very aggressively to seize this

1999
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:11,560
Speaker 1: land and colonize it for themselves, and yet a non

2000
02:01:11,600 --> 02:01:17,440
Speaker 1: insignificant part of the human population of this area have said, yes, okay,

2001
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:21,480
Speaker 1: we are in if this will better you know, better

2002
02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:26,040
Speaker 1: r station in whatever future paradigm comes to emerge. I

2003
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 1: found that really fascinating that they were so against the

2004
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:33,480
Speaker 1: way the Elves had kind of like haughtily and kind

2005
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:37,320
Speaker 1: of arrogantly run the area, that they were willing to

2006
02:01:38,920 --> 02:01:42,880
Speaker 1: throw in with Saron or Adar or whoever and say, Okay,

2007
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:44,720
Speaker 1: we want to bet we think this is actually a

2008
02:01:44,720 --> 02:01:46,200
Speaker 1: better deal. We're going to do this.

2009
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's really it's this really sad exploration of

2010
02:01:50,360 --> 02:01:53,320
Speaker 2: not learning your lessons because the reason the Southlands were

2011
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 2: under the Elves control and kind of I would say,

2012
02:01:56,680 --> 02:02:00,920
Speaker 2: like purview because it's unclear what the how the Ols

2013
02:02:00,920 --> 02:02:03,080
Speaker 2: were really treating them, but they were being watched. That's

2014
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:06,800
Speaker 2: why Aaron Dere was there is because they sided with

2015
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:09,600
Speaker 2: more Goth in the War of the Rath. That that

2016
02:02:09,800 --> 02:02:13,920
Speaker 2: is the mistake they already made, and some of them

2017
02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:18,760
Speaker 2: are so willing to make that same mistake again. To

2018
02:02:18,880 --> 02:02:22,240
Speaker 2: bow to a dictateor to somebody evil for what they

2019
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:26,320
Speaker 2: perceive as the benefits that they will get from it.

2020
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:30,280
Speaker 2: It's very timeless horror story, agreed.

2021
02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:37,800
Speaker 1: And also an interesting It's an interesting statement about forgiveness

2022
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:41,640
Speaker 1: and moving past something like the fact that they had

2023
02:02:42,360 --> 02:02:45,840
Speaker 1: cast their lot with more Goth is constantly being brought

2024
02:02:45,920 --> 02:02:50,840
Speaker 1: up to them, and they resent it. It's certainly like

2025
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:54,040
Speaker 1: even the people who don't throw in with a dar

2026
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:58,480
Speaker 1: resent that this is constantly being brought up to them,

2027
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:03,560
Speaker 1: and so their decision is basically to double down on

2028
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:07,680
Speaker 1: it and throw in with the dar because this thing

2029
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:10,080
Speaker 1: is constantly being thrown in their face. And at the

2030
02:03:10,120 --> 02:03:14,800
Speaker 1: same time, the way like THEO is treated with this

2031
02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:18,440
Speaker 1: absolute generosity despite the fact that he brought this like

2032
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:24,440
Speaker 1: terrible tragedy down on everybody's heads, is like you almost

2033
02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 1: wish the elves could have treated the people of the

2034
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:30,080
Speaker 1: Southlands with the kind of generosity that Aronder treats Theo,

2035
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:32,800
Speaker 1: because maybe things would have turned out different.

2036
02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really complex character study of

2037
02:03:39,680 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 2: the kind of wreckage of war but thousands of years

2038
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:45,000
Speaker 2: later and kind of how people are still living with

2039
02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:50,200
Speaker 2: the impact of the decisions that people centuries and you know,

2040
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:53,760
Speaker 2: generations before the maid and Aaronder is obviously meant to

2041
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 2: kind of be the best of the elves. And you

2042
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:59,720
Speaker 2: see that in that generosity that he has and the

2043
02:03:59,760 --> 02:04:03,880
Speaker 2: way that even though he is someone who they never accepted,

2044
02:04:03,920 --> 02:04:07,760
Speaker 2: who they never welcomed to, they feared, he has taken

2045
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:11,680
Speaker 2: on this sacrifice to lead them because he believes it's

2046
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:12,440
Speaker 2: the right thing to do.

2047
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:17,680
Speaker 1: I means he believes in the humans of this area,

2048
02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:21,080
Speaker 1: the men of this area, you know, for lack of

2049
02:04:21,120 --> 02:04:23,320
Speaker 1: a more specific term, the people of the south, and

2050
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:25,240
Speaker 1: he believes in them in a way that the elves don't.

2051
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:27,400
Speaker 1: And clearly like he is invested because he's in love

2052
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:31,560
Speaker 1: with Bronwyn. But still, you're absolutely right, he is the

2053
02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:37,560
Speaker 1: best of the elves. Yeah. Around here and the townspeople

2054
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:40,400
Speaker 1: are preparing their defenses. Around here is trying to bang

2055
02:04:40,480 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 1: this key out of shape, hopefully to destroy no Go.

2056
02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:50,560
Speaker 1: They know that the Orcs are coming at certainly by nightfall,

2057
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:53,320
Speaker 1: and so Bronwin and Arounder make their version of the

2058
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:57,080
Speaker 1: college football speech. They say, and they fire up the

2059
02:04:57,080 --> 02:05:01,240
Speaker 1: townspeople around here says, you know, do you believe you know? Essentially,

2060
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:02,880
Speaker 1: do you believe it. Do you believe that we can win?

2061
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:06,920
Speaker 1: A version of the Helm's Deep speech. I kept thinking,

2062
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:08,560
Speaker 1: like this is like Helm's Deep Junior.

2063
02:05:08,720 --> 02:05:11,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're definitely giving a lot of fun for

2064
02:05:11,720 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 2: shattering in this episode.

2065
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:15,840
Speaker 1: And the plan is a trap. We get the Orcs

2066
02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:19,360
Speaker 1: in to the town and that's when we strike, so

2067
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:21,320
Speaker 1: that we can take out as many of them. We

2068
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 1: get them close, we grab them by the belt, and

2069
02:05:23,360 --> 02:05:26,040
Speaker 1: we take out as many of them as we can.

2070
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:30,000
Speaker 1: And then, of course, much like Helm's Deep, we're gonna

2071
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:33,000
Speaker 1: put the vulnerable in this stone house. This is the

2072
02:05:33,040 --> 02:05:35,920
Speaker 1: strong point. We fall back to here and we keep

2073
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:38,640
Speaker 1: the weak, the infirm. The children will be in here

2074
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:43,800
Speaker 1: for hopefully for protection. THEO finally kind of apologizes sort of,

2075
02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:52,680
Speaker 1: and later in a private moment, bron winning around deer

2076
02:05:52,760 --> 02:05:55,480
Speaker 1: Kiss and which is super heartwarming. I gotta say, bron

2077
02:05:55,480 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 1: Win is a I am not one for corporal punishment,

2078
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:05,320
Speaker 1: but got to the gotta get his ass. I'm sorry,

2079
02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:07,240
Speaker 1: like Jesus.

2080
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 2: Like I will make an exception in this case.

2081
02:06:08,960 --> 02:06:11,120
Speaker 1: We will get like we'll get to it. But like

2082
02:06:11,920 --> 02:06:17,320
Speaker 1: people get their thropes cut, people get stabbed brutally by

2083
02:06:17,400 --> 02:06:20,920
Speaker 1: a dar and other orcs. People die, many people die.

2084
02:06:21,280 --> 02:06:25,160
Speaker 1: The end result of this is the entire Southlands gets

2085
02:06:25,400 --> 02:06:29,120
Speaker 1: fucking leveled, and THEO is just like, hey, I'm sorry.

2086
02:06:29,680 --> 02:06:31,120
Speaker 1: I guess I made a bad decision.

2087
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:34,760
Speaker 2: THEO is definitely like a big this is a big curiosity.

2088
02:06:34,760 --> 02:06:38,400
Speaker 2: He killed the cat. Lesson should have been telling him, like,

2089
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:41,080
Speaker 2: don't be digging up. And if you find a weird sword, like,

2090
02:06:41,200 --> 02:06:43,440
Speaker 2: let me know, don't touch it, don't let it cut

2091
02:06:43,480 --> 02:06:46,720
Speaker 2: into you, and do it with le like please. And

2092
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 2: also if we leave, just let leave it. Probably just

2093
02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:51,520
Speaker 2: it and.

2094
02:06:52,040 --> 02:06:54,080
Speaker 1: Talk to someone and say, you know, hey, does anybody

2095
02:06:54,120 --> 02:06:54,560
Speaker 1: know what this is?

2096
02:06:54,720 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 2: Let's let's that's the one guy you shouldn't talk to.

2097
02:06:57,600 --> 02:06:58,920
Speaker 2: And guess what happened.

2098
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:00,840
Speaker 1: Guess who you talked about. We'll get to that. Some

2099
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:05,400
Speaker 1: night falls, the battle begins. It is brutal. Arondier almost dies,

2100
02:07:05,560 --> 02:07:11,360
Speaker 1: many people do die. Bronwin saves him. It seems the

2101
02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:15,000
Speaker 1: plan works. There are losses and it is expensive, but

2102
02:07:15,080 --> 02:07:19,320
Speaker 1: it seems like they've beaten back the threat. At a

2103
02:07:19,320 --> 02:07:24,600
Speaker 1: certain point, the townspeople horrifically realizes that they're fighting against

2104
02:07:24,680 --> 02:07:28,640
Speaker 1: humans too. They're fighting against people of the Southlands who

2105
02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:32,440
Speaker 1: treacherously have thrown their lot in with the Orcs and

2106
02:07:32,520 --> 02:07:36,920
Speaker 1: a dar and then all of a sudden the real attack.

2107
02:07:37,240 --> 02:07:40,120
Speaker 1: The Orcs have flipped the tables right. It was supposed

2108
02:07:40,160 --> 02:07:42,800
Speaker 1: to be a trap in which the Orcs are lured

2109
02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:46,400
Speaker 1: in and in their vulnerable moment, pounced upon, But it's

2110
02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:49,880
Speaker 1: really the Orcs who have done that to the people

2111
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:52,080
Speaker 1: of the South Lends, and they've done it in a

2112
02:07:52,120 --> 02:07:56,520
Speaker 1: way that shows how little they actually care about Orc life,

2113
02:07:56,680 --> 02:08:00,840
Speaker 1: like they are more than willing to just burn one

2114
02:08:00,920 --> 02:08:07,520
Speaker 1: hundred two hundred Orcs so that Arondier, Bronwin and their

2115
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:11,240
Speaker 1: allies can get lulled into this false sense of security.

2116
02:08:11,320 --> 02:08:13,280
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, here come these arrows

2117
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:17,280
Speaker 1: out of the darkness. Bronwin is hit, lots of people die,

2118
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:20,320
Speaker 1: and they fall back to the keep Aroundier in the

2119
02:08:20,560 --> 02:08:24,880
Speaker 1: to do some surgery. And it's a tense moment and

2120
02:08:24,920 --> 02:08:27,320
Speaker 1: you think maybe we're gonna lose Bronwin, but they stabilize

2121
02:08:27,320 --> 02:08:30,840
Speaker 1: her just as the Orcs lay into the stronghold. Meanwhile,

2122
02:08:31,720 --> 02:08:36,400
Speaker 1: in a thrilling slow motion Horses on the Gallop scene,

2123
02:08:36,440 --> 02:08:39,800
Speaker 1: we see that Galadriel and the gang from Newmanor are

2124
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:42,760
Speaker 1: riding hard to the rescue. We hope that they get

2125
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:47,440
Speaker 1: there in time. The Orcs break into the stronghold, THEO

2126
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:50,000
Speaker 1: and Bronwin are taken hostage. A Dar comes in. He's

2127
02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:53,280
Speaker 1: just slaughtering people left and right. He's like, where's the key?

2128
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:58,600
Speaker 1: I want to know where it is. He's basically saying,

2129
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:00,880
Speaker 1: RONDI you're gonna tell me where it is because he's

2130
02:09:01,120 --> 02:09:03,640
Speaker 1: killing everyone. And then he's about to have bron Win

2131
02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:06,960
Speaker 1: put to death when THEO Fucking THEO again.

2132
02:09:08,960 --> 02:09:11,480
Speaker 2: This is d of like this is gonna be the

2133
02:09:12,040 --> 02:09:14,440
Speaker 2: the real you know, like and people like the real

2134
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:16,840
Speaker 2: villain of Star Wars is are too D two. This

2135
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:18,800
Speaker 2: is like a the THEO is gonna be one of

2136
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:20,880
Speaker 2: those like the real villain of Lord of the Rings

2137
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:22,240
Speaker 2: was THEO all along?

2138
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:29,120
Speaker 1: You know, hopefully you know, prayers to the Valor that

2139
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:34,360
Speaker 1: the people of the Southland survive. If they do, THEO

2140
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:37,840
Speaker 1: is an outcast after this, right, I mean you know,

2141
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 1: like if you survived this and THEO survived, wouldn't you

2142
02:09:41,440 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 1: be like fuck honestly, fuck that guy?

2143
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck the guy. I think also, like what they

2144
02:09:46,520 --> 02:09:48,960
Speaker 2: what they do with Theo's character here and throughout is

2145
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:54,400
Speaker 2: like THEO is that he is the personification of always

2146
02:09:54,440 --> 02:09:57,200
Speaker 2: making the choice for yourself and not for the greater good.

2147
02:09:57,280 --> 02:09:59,640
Speaker 2: In this moment, he cracks. He doesn't crack because they

2148
02:09:59,800 --> 02:10:02,200
Speaker 2: kill all of his people. He cracks because it's gonna

2149
02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:04,520
Speaker 2: They're gonna kill his mom. And it's that choice of

2150
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:06,920
Speaker 2: he was more than happy to let happy to let

2151
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:09,360
Speaker 2: other people die, but when it's his mom. So it's

2152
02:10:09,400 --> 02:10:13,760
Speaker 2: this really interesting kind of flip on a dime, like

2153
02:10:14,720 --> 02:10:18,400
Speaker 2: this is the person who is already potentially being corrupted

2154
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:23,240
Speaker 2: just by touching the key slash sword And how far

2155
02:10:23,920 --> 02:10:25,840
Speaker 2: will that continue on into the show?

2156
02:10:25,960 --> 02:10:28,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, hold out for another thirty five

2157
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:36,720
Speaker 1: seconds because the the the the cavalry has fucking literally

2158
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:40,800
Speaker 1: the hoofs are pounding in the distance as he is

2159
02:10:40,920 --> 02:10:46,000
Speaker 1: giving up the fucking key. Deal, what the fuck would

2160
02:10:46,040 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 1: we have lost? Bronwin probably, but like my god, you're.

2161
02:10:50,640 --> 02:10:54,400
Speaker 2: Gonna see the THEO. I hope that THEO has to

2162
02:10:55,440 --> 02:10:59,160
Speaker 2: truly wreckon Sile what he has done, because the key

2163
02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:03,360
Speaker 2: is much more than we could have ever considered it

2164
02:11:04,240 --> 02:11:08,320
Speaker 2: as a magical sword. We thought, yes, it's over, thanks

2165
02:11:08,360 --> 02:11:08,760
Speaker 2: the oh.

2166
02:11:09,200 --> 02:11:14,640
Speaker 1: It's alive and homes and and dwellings of every being

2167
02:11:14,760 --> 02:11:19,360
Speaker 1: that lives in the southlands of the area of the Mounts.

2168
02:11:19,880 --> 02:11:23,960
Speaker 2: And foxes like not even just humans. Everyone's gone twenty

2169
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:28,640
Speaker 2: more seconds. The just hold on, my guy, what.

2170
02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:30,720
Speaker 1: Is that horses? Can you just oh my god?

2171
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:32,920
Speaker 2: He's like, maybe any walks better give it up?

2172
02:11:33,320 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh. And so the battle begins, with the cavalry arriving.

2173
02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:44,080
Speaker 1: A Dar flees with the key. It is a wild fight.

2174
02:11:44,400 --> 02:11:49,120
Speaker 1: Galadiel goes absolutely into a frenzy at the sight of orcs.

2175
02:11:51,080 --> 02:11:57,120
Speaker 1: Halbrand saves Lendial's life. Uh. Galadriel and Halbrand go off

2176
02:11:57,160 --> 02:11:59,680
Speaker 1: in search of a Dar who has galloped off with

2177
02:11:59,720 --> 02:12:04,560
Speaker 1: the key. They catch him, and very interestingly here this

2178
02:12:05,240 --> 02:12:11,120
Speaker 1: was fascinating. Galadriel says, basically genocide shit to to a

2179
02:12:11,200 --> 02:12:14,800
Speaker 1: Dar und, I will I want to wipe you out.

2180
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:18,280
Speaker 1: I want to wipe out all of your Orc children,

2181
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:21,600
Speaker 1: root and stem. I want you to watch as they

2182
02:12:21,640 --> 02:12:24,440
Speaker 1: are killed before you. I want you to know that

2183
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:26,360
Speaker 1: every last one of them has.

2184
02:12:26,320 --> 02:12:28,760
Speaker 2: Been killed before I kill you.

2185
02:12:29,120 --> 02:12:36,880
Speaker 1: Yes, before I kill you. And a Dar honestly, quite

2186
02:12:36,920 --> 02:12:40,320
Speaker 1: fairly says, look, you know I'm paraphrasing now, but look,

2187
02:12:40,680 --> 02:12:44,040
Speaker 1: you have become the mirror image of the thing that

2188
02:12:44,120 --> 02:12:47,240
Speaker 1: you are fighting. Have you met and it's she is

2189
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:50,920
Speaker 1: a holland it's the truth. It's interesting because it is

2190
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:54,160
Speaker 1: she who stopped Halbrand from from from murdering him, and

2191
02:12:54,200 --> 02:12:57,000
Speaker 1: it is the reason that she wants to star. The

2192
02:12:57,200 --> 02:12:59,160
Speaker 1: reason she wants a Dar alive is so that he

2193
02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:03,480
Speaker 1: can witness are wiping out everything that he loves.

2194
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I will say, we learned something really interesting

2195
02:13:08,040 --> 02:13:10,600
Speaker 2: here on a law level. For a long time, there

2196
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:15,160
Speaker 2: has been highly contested law of whether the first Orcs

2197
02:13:15,160 --> 02:13:17,960
Speaker 2: and the Orcs in general the Uruk were in fact

2198
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:22,000
Speaker 2: corrupted elves who had been tortured. This show confirms that

2199
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:26,320
Speaker 2: that at least a Dar and the first Orcs were

2200
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:30,120
Speaker 2: more Goth's creations and they were elves who were tortured, twisted, corrupted,

2201
02:13:30,480 --> 02:13:34,400
Speaker 2: and turned into Orcs. I'm so interested to see how

2202
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:37,120
Speaker 2: that goes down, because that is like one of those

2203
02:13:37,160 --> 02:13:40,680
Speaker 2: really divisive like some academics, Tolkien academics say it's true

2204
02:13:40,680 --> 02:13:43,240
Speaker 2: and some don't. And so now we know in this

2205
02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:47,440
Speaker 2: canon they were elves, and it is this really interesting

2206
02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:54,240
Speaker 2: juxtaposition against just like Ada says, like Galadriel is now

2207
02:13:54,280 --> 02:13:57,520
Speaker 2: corrupt too. Galadriel is wanting to commit a genocide on

2208
02:13:57,600 --> 02:14:02,360
Speaker 2: a group of essentially enslaved but of her own people.

2209
02:14:03,720 --> 02:14:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's one. Here's the thing. I'm not

2210
02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:11,080
Speaker 1: saying that we should live in peace alongside the Orcs,

2211
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:15,400
Speaker 1: the humans and elves and everybody and orcs holding hands together.

2212
02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:19,200
Speaker 1: That's impossible. I think we know that. But it is

2213
02:14:20,840 --> 02:14:25,880
Speaker 1: the obvious glee. Maybe glee is too strong, but is

2214
02:14:25,920 --> 02:14:30,720
Speaker 1: the obvious satisfaction with which Galadriel talks about doing this

2215
02:14:31,320 --> 02:14:36,200
Speaker 1: that really brings you up short, where you're like, whoa Galadriel.

2216
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:37,080
Speaker 2: She's consumed by it.

2217
02:14:37,600 --> 02:14:40,520
Speaker 1: You're yet you're obsessed with this in a way that

2218
02:14:41,320 --> 02:14:43,080
Speaker 1: you need to you need to pull back from this.

2219
02:14:43,480 --> 02:14:45,880
Speaker 2: And what they do with Ada that's really interesting is,

2220
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:48,280
Speaker 2: like you said, no one's like, oh, it's gonna be

2221
02:14:48,320 --> 02:14:50,440
Speaker 2: like animal crossing, but the Orcs live over.

2222
02:14:50,280 --> 02:14:53,600
Speaker 1: Here and across the bridge of the elves. I possibly

2223
02:14:53,640 --> 02:14:56,520
Speaker 1: would love that, obviously, but like, yeah, I think we

2224
02:14:56,600 --> 02:14:57,919
Speaker 1: understand that that we are.

2225
02:14:58,360 --> 02:15:00,400
Speaker 2: Going to happen, right. But what they do here with

2226
02:15:00,440 --> 02:15:03,400
Speaker 2: a Dar is they take the Orcs out of the

2227
02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:06,160
Speaker 2: context that we've tended to see them, especially in on

2228
02:15:06,240 --> 02:15:10,080
Speaker 2: screen adaptations, which are soulless killing machines who will kill

2229
02:15:10,120 --> 02:15:12,720
Speaker 2: each other, who will kill anyone? With a DAR, they

2230
02:15:12,760 --> 02:15:17,520
Speaker 2: add a context and a level of soulfulness and backstory

2231
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:23,320
Speaker 2: and history and connection that makes Galadriel's obsession with wiping

2232
02:15:23,360 --> 02:15:26,920
Speaker 2: them out have a far darker bent to it.

2233
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:33,200
Speaker 1: And then a DAR gives us really some important lore

2234
02:15:34,280 --> 02:15:37,400
Speaker 1: here dun dun duh. He talks about how in the

2235
02:15:37,440 --> 02:15:42,880
Speaker 1: wake of more God's defeat, Souran tried to whatever this

2236
02:15:43,040 --> 02:15:45,920
Speaker 1: meant to sour On heal Middle Earth to bring the

2237
02:15:45,960 --> 02:15:49,080
Speaker 1: world together. Now, I think that there's this is a

2238
02:15:49,880 --> 02:15:53,360
Speaker 1: this is an important point to make, and I think

2239
02:15:53,400 --> 02:15:56,040
Speaker 1: a good place to make it that there is never

2240
02:15:57,040 --> 02:16:01,360
Speaker 1: either in storytelling or in the real world, been a

2241
02:16:01,440 --> 02:16:04,680
Speaker 1: bad person who thought they were doing bad things. They

2242
02:16:04,680 --> 02:16:07,280
Speaker 1: think that they're doing good, never been together.

2243
02:16:07,360 --> 02:16:10,280
Speaker 2: You're doing something important, it's units. Yeah, you've got to

2244
02:16:10,320 --> 02:16:12,520
Speaker 2: seek power to do it, though, You've got to consolidate.

2245
02:16:12,560 --> 02:16:14,280
Speaker 1: We all know what right, and we have to take out,

2246
02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:17,560
Speaker 1: wipe out. We have to wipe out these bad elements

2247
02:16:17,600 --> 02:16:22,040
Speaker 1: that are corrupting this attempt to unify the world. But

2248
02:16:22,120 --> 02:16:24,919
Speaker 1: that's it. We're going to take out these corrupt elements

2249
02:16:24,960 --> 02:16:27,000
Speaker 1: and then the world will be pure. And so I'm

2250
02:16:27,040 --> 02:16:32,360
Speaker 1: sure Sourn's attempt to quote heal Middle Earth is probably

2251
02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:36,240
Speaker 1: let's purge everyone we don't like, and it will just

2252
02:16:36,280 --> 02:16:39,160
Speaker 1: be the people like us. So but that's the way

2253
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:42,080
Speaker 1: Adar frames it. And to do this, he sought the

2254
02:16:42,120 --> 02:16:47,560
Speaker 1: power of the quote unseen world. Did he find it? Unclear?

2255
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:52,480
Speaker 1: But Adar then says something fascinating that he killed Souron

2256
02:16:53,200 --> 02:16:57,000
Speaker 1: in order that his kind, his children, and the Urus

2257
02:16:57,040 --> 02:16:59,920
Speaker 1: the Orcs would be free. And then he says, Michel

2258
02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:03,560
Speaker 1: and have no master. Do you think he's telling the truth.

2259
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:07,160
Speaker 2: This is the biggest question. And I we have had

2260
02:17:07,240 --> 02:17:09,959
Speaker 2: so many great theories in our and theory discussions in

2261
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:13,640
Speaker 2: our Lord of the Rings, like Rings of Power, Discord Space,

2262
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:17,280
Speaker 2: and I'm so interested to see what our listeners think

2263
02:17:17,320 --> 02:17:20,959
Speaker 2: because this could take on so many different meanings. A

2264
02:17:20,959 --> 02:17:24,760
Speaker 2: lot of people thought Ada was Souron. You know, I

2265
02:17:24,800 --> 02:17:26,800
Speaker 2: think you could still. I think that's unlikely. But I

2266
02:17:26,800 --> 02:17:28,640
Speaker 2: think if you're in that camp, you could read this

2267
02:17:28,680 --> 02:17:32,800
Speaker 2: as him talking about how he killed Souron as a personality,

2268
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:38,160
Speaker 2: he killed Souron as a leader and he became part

2269
02:17:38,160 --> 02:17:40,480
Speaker 2: of the Uru. I think that's unlikely. Do I think

2270
02:17:40,480 --> 02:17:42,960
Speaker 2: he really killed Saron? What do I think he thinks

2271
02:17:42,959 --> 02:17:48,160
Speaker 2: he killed Souron possibly like maybe and maybe what we're

2272
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:51,200
Speaker 2: seeing with whoever really is Saron if we've already met

2273
02:17:51,280 --> 02:17:56,720
Speaker 2: him aka Holbrand or you know the stranger maybe resurrected

2274
02:17:56,800 --> 02:18:01,360
Speaker 2: from death there is an amnesia there or you know.

2275
02:18:02,040 --> 02:18:04,840
Speaker 2: How Brand says, this is very tim for a hat,

2276
02:18:04,879 --> 02:18:06,480
Speaker 2: but it is fun if it's if it came out

2277
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:08,199
Speaker 2: to be true, how Brand says.

2278
02:18:08,120 --> 02:18:10,400
Speaker 1: I learn it. Let's go there.

2279
02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:14,280
Speaker 2: He says to Ada that Adar killed his family. He

2280
02:18:14,360 --> 02:18:18,320
Speaker 2: says to Ada that Adar destroyed the things that he loves.

2281
02:18:18,600 --> 02:18:22,080
Speaker 2: Maybe he is there and but maybe he's Sarah come

2282
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:23,959
Speaker 2: back to life and the family that he killed. Was

2283
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:26,959
Speaker 2: this his his legion of orcs by taking them away?

2284
02:18:27,000 --> 02:18:30,760
Speaker 2: You know, I think there's very interesting things. But I

2285
02:18:30,760 --> 02:18:34,640
Speaker 2: I really thought this was very smart twist to the

2286
02:18:34,720 --> 02:18:38,200
Speaker 2: Adar story where it was this he is a he's

2287
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:44,200
Speaker 2: an antagonist to Sarn rather than his new his kind

2288
02:18:44,240 --> 02:18:49,400
Speaker 2: of new like puppet that Saren is controlling. I thought

2289
02:18:49,440 --> 02:18:51,080
Speaker 2: that was very interesting. Is it true?

2290
02:18:51,240 --> 02:18:51,680
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2291
02:18:51,920 --> 02:18:55,360
Speaker 2: This episode is like I was really like thinking a

2292
02:18:55,360 --> 02:18:59,000
Speaker 2: lot about this episode. It has all these I'm putting

2293
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:03,080
Speaker 2: them in their commas confirmations, but really every single confirmation

2294
02:19:03,160 --> 02:19:06,760
Speaker 2: could just be upended. Next episode this.

2295
02:19:07,400 --> 02:19:09,520
Speaker 1: We will talk, Okay, we will dive into this in

2296
02:19:09,560 --> 02:19:13,680
Speaker 1: a second. So, post battle, the people of the Southlands

2297
02:19:13,680 --> 02:19:16,920
Speaker 1: and aronder kind of in a celebratory mood. It's been tough,

2298
02:19:16,959 --> 02:19:19,160
Speaker 1: and of course the forces of a New Minor they're

2299
02:19:19,280 --> 02:19:22,280
Speaker 1: they're they're taking in the fact that they have won.

2300
02:19:22,400 --> 02:19:26,959
Speaker 1: There's like the kind of like satisfaction of a victory

2301
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:32,160
Speaker 1: on everybody's face. People are being introduced to Halbrand and

2302
02:19:32,200 --> 02:19:35,280
Speaker 1: of course he's wearing the the that symbol that he

2303
02:19:35,320 --> 02:19:39,039
Speaker 1: had formerly been wearing around his neck and uh. He

2304
02:19:39,160 --> 02:19:43,760
Speaker 1: is then introduced to the people as the true King

2305
02:19:43,800 --> 02:19:48,240
Speaker 1: of the Southlands and is a very interesting moment where

2306
02:19:48,240 --> 02:19:53,240
Speaker 1: they ask him if it's true and he says he's

2307
02:19:53,280 --> 02:19:55,040
Speaker 1: a blong pause where he kind of looks away, and

2308
02:19:55,040 --> 02:19:57,039
Speaker 1: then he's like, yeah, that's me.

2309
02:19:58,760 --> 02:20:00,200
Speaker 2: I think that's what they call him, like they king

2310
02:20:00,240 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 2: who was promised.

2311
02:20:01,080 --> 02:20:03,360
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's very cheeky, you know,

2312
02:20:03,800 --> 02:20:06,119
Speaker 1: very interesting, And we will get back to that moment.

2313
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:10,360
Speaker 2: Something else that I think it's really interesting here when

2314
02:20:10,480 --> 02:20:13,160
Speaker 2: the new Manorians, we get this really interesting moment where

2315
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:15,959
Speaker 2: one of the side characters from Numenor who is friends

2316
02:20:15,959 --> 02:20:21,120
Speaker 2: with isildaor he's like partves orders trio. He says that

2317
02:20:21,200 --> 02:20:23,440
Speaker 2: he's going to stay in the southlands, He's not going

2318
02:20:23,520 --> 02:20:26,640
Speaker 2: to go and fight. So we're getting these hints of

2319
02:20:26,720 --> 02:20:29,080
Speaker 2: the new Manorians who and the people from Noumenaw who

2320
02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:31,920
Speaker 2: who stayed and who made a home in middle life,

2321
02:20:32,240 --> 02:20:34,240
Speaker 2: which is kind of like a big part of the

2322
02:20:34,480 --> 02:20:36,440
Speaker 2: of the New Minor history. So I thought that was

2323
02:20:36,440 --> 02:20:39,760
Speaker 2: a very interesting, little like quiet moment that they that

2324
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:40,640
Speaker 2: they popped in there.

2325
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:46,320
Speaker 1: Arandi and Theo have that wonderful moment where Arondia is like,

2326
02:20:46,360 --> 02:20:50,800
Speaker 1: don't worry, you know, Theo is Uh is talking about

2327
02:20:50,840 --> 02:20:54,120
Speaker 1: how badly he feels that, you know, he said events

2328
02:20:54,200 --> 02:20:57,000
Speaker 1: in motion that caused unknown amounts of people to die

2329
02:20:57,080 --> 02:21:01,080
Speaker 1: and terrible terror to befall the self lids, etcetera, etcetera,

2330
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:07,040
Speaker 1: the rebirth of the Orcs potentially like and Arondi is like,

2331
02:21:07,080 --> 02:21:10,199
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Here's what we're gonna do. Here's

2332
02:21:10,240 --> 02:21:12,520
Speaker 1: the key. I've wrapped it up nice and neat for

2333
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:17,080
Speaker 1: you in this little brown paper bag. When we when

2334
02:21:17,080 --> 02:21:19,440
Speaker 1: we sail back to New Minir, right, you throw it

2335
02:21:19,440 --> 02:21:21,360
Speaker 1: in the water and be done with it. And when

2336
02:21:21,440 --> 02:21:24,360
Speaker 1: that feel good, won't that feel like you've done something here?

2337
02:21:24,400 --> 02:21:27,800
Speaker 1: It is you take that up? And Theo's like, yeah,

2338
02:21:27,879 --> 02:21:31,440
Speaker 1: let me take one last look at this key one

2339
02:21:31,520 --> 02:21:33,840
Speaker 1: last time and he unwraps it. It's a fucking axe.

2340
02:21:33,959 --> 02:21:37,039
Speaker 1: Uh oh, the key's missing, Arondier. I don't know how

2341
02:21:37,040 --> 02:21:39,480
Speaker 1: you fumbled the bag, but you did terrible.

2342
02:21:39,840 --> 02:21:42,879
Speaker 2: Just like also, I will say, I feel very out

2343
02:21:42,879 --> 02:21:45,880
Speaker 2: of character for a round. I'm gonna put a theory

2344
02:21:45,879 --> 02:21:49,560
Speaker 2: out there, Okay, out there. THEO says in this moment

2345
02:21:49,680 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 2: that he feels like connected, he felt like powerful when

2346
02:21:52,840 --> 02:21:55,280
Speaker 2: he held it. They definitely are leaning into some kind

2347
02:21:55,320 --> 02:21:57,039
Speaker 2: of one ring similarities of like.

2348
02:21:58,680 --> 02:22:00,680
Speaker 1: The corruption of holding it.

2349
02:22:00,879 --> 02:22:06,240
Speaker 2: What if this was another THEO betrayal, Like what if

2350
02:22:06,360 --> 02:22:09,000
Speaker 2: he was somehow involved with swapping it out because Warrig

2351
02:22:09,240 --> 02:22:13,560
Speaker 2: sees him as his companion because they're both marked with

2352
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:17,080
Speaker 2: the map. So I I just wonder. I know, in

2353
02:22:17,120 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 2: that moment, it feels like they're having this this time,

2354
02:22:19,840 --> 02:22:21,320
Speaker 2: but like, why did the only need to look at

2355
02:22:21,320 --> 02:22:24,560
Speaker 2: it if he knew it was there? I feel I

2356
02:22:24,720 --> 02:22:26,480
Speaker 2: just I would love to see if that if that

2357
02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:29,480
Speaker 2: ends up becoming true because otherwise, Aaron, how did you

2358
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:30,199
Speaker 2: mess that up?

2359
02:22:30,840 --> 02:22:33,280
Speaker 1: What is it? What do we say about the what

2360
02:22:33,320 --> 02:22:35,760
Speaker 1: do they say about the ring of power? It wanted

2361
02:22:35,800 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 1: to be found. It wants to be found. I think

2362
02:22:38,520 --> 02:22:41,400
Speaker 1: the key wanted the key wanted to find the lock.

2363
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:46,480
Speaker 1: It just did, and however it managed to outwit these people.

2364
02:22:46,640 --> 02:22:50,600
Speaker 1: It absolutely did. Wal Drake has the key. He puts

2365
02:22:50,640 --> 02:22:52,960
Speaker 1: it in the fucking lock at the top of this,

2366
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, at this level of at the top of

2367
02:22:56,280 --> 02:22:58,800
Speaker 1: a dam that's built into the side of the mountain,

2368
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:07,080
Speaker 1: and it sets powerful forces free that unleash the dam.

2369
02:23:07,160 --> 02:23:11,160
Speaker 1: The waters of the dam, the waters flow down into

2370
02:23:11,360 --> 02:23:14,080
Speaker 1: the caverns of lava.

2371
02:23:13,800 --> 02:23:16,199
Speaker 2: That are under the The orcs had.

2372
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:20,320
Speaker 1: Been tunnels, all of that stuff, all of these roots,

2373
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:25,240
Speaker 1: preparing it for this moment. The waters react with the

2374
02:23:25,360 --> 02:23:30,920
Speaker 1: lava and there is just an intense explosion, and that

2375
02:23:31,200 --> 02:23:34,520
Speaker 1: seemingly wipes out all of our heroes that have been

2376
02:23:34,520 --> 02:23:37,200
Speaker 1: there in the Southlands. And clearly we are witnessing the

2377
02:23:37,280 --> 02:23:42,200
Speaker 1: creation of Mount Doom and the formation of the lands

2378
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:47,880
Speaker 1: of Mordor. Who knows if a Rendeer, if Bronwyn, if

2379
02:23:47,959 --> 02:23:52,119
Speaker 1: theo actually serve, if sil Door and the rest, how

2380
02:23:52,160 --> 02:23:54,360
Speaker 1: they survive this, we don't know or how many of

2381
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:57,360
Speaker 1: them do. Clearly a Sildur must live, but how do

2382
02:23:57,440 --> 02:24:03,240
Speaker 1: the rest of them survive? Tb D. But that was

2383
02:24:04,760 --> 02:24:12,040
Speaker 1: such an O shit moment. And again, if THEO fucking lives, bronwin,

2384
02:24:12,640 --> 02:24:14,480
Speaker 1: you gotta take the belt offense.

2385
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:16,840
Speaker 2: And he's getting thrown into Mount Doom.

2386
02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:20,880
Speaker 1: We gotta have a we gotta have a real serious

2387
02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:25,520
Speaker 1: talk with him, because this is fucking crazy what he

2388
02:24:25,560 --> 02:24:33,920
Speaker 1: has done. Now to the question at hand, where sauran at?

2389
02:24:33,280 --> 02:24:40,080
Speaker 1: Where is he? It seems to me, you now the obvious.

2390
02:24:40,920 --> 02:24:43,240
Speaker 1: It seems to me that the really obvious thing is

2391
02:24:43,280 --> 02:24:47,199
Speaker 1: that Ad is selling telling some form of the truth.

2392
02:24:48,160 --> 02:24:54,720
Speaker 1: He killed Air quotes Saurn, who then fell to earth

2393
02:24:54,840 --> 02:24:59,240
Speaker 1: an knowing without being able to remember who he is.

2394
02:24:59,440 --> 02:25:02,920
Speaker 1: And that is is who the stranger is. This person

2395
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:07,000
Speaker 1: who has this mysterious power, who seemingly is pre verbal,

2396
02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:09,920
Speaker 1: barely verbal, does not seem to have any memory of

2397
02:25:09,959 --> 02:25:12,680
Speaker 1: who they are, and is just kind of like a

2398
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:18,080
Speaker 1: almost existing in a state of nature almost. That said,

2399
02:25:19,440 --> 02:25:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how it would work, but it feels

2400
02:25:22,280 --> 02:25:26,640
Speaker 1: to me like it would be an amazing, amazing like

2401
02:25:26,640 --> 02:25:31,080
Speaker 1: like stomach punching moment. If it is somehow Halbrand.

2402
02:25:30,800 --> 02:25:36,040
Speaker 2: It really would, especially because of the way that Galadriel

2403
02:25:36,120 --> 02:25:38,720
Speaker 2: has taken him back to Mordor. She is the one

2404
02:25:38,760 --> 02:25:41,280
Speaker 2: who encouraged him to go to the Southlands. She is

2405
02:25:41,320 --> 02:25:42,640
Speaker 2: the one who took him back to the place that

2406
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:45,440
Speaker 2: he saw he would never return too. It would be

2407
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:50,160
Speaker 2: absolutely brutal. I also think, look, what do we know

2408
02:25:50,360 --> 02:25:53,800
Speaker 2: about the Anata, which is the name that Saron gave

2409
02:25:53,879 --> 02:25:57,360
Speaker 2: himself when he was manipulating celebrim Bore into forging the

2410
02:25:57,400 --> 02:26:01,680
Speaker 2: rings the giver gifts. He was Celebrimble. We haven't seen him,

2411
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:03,960
Speaker 2: we haven't talked about this episode, but he is involved

2412
02:26:03,959 --> 02:26:09,400
Speaker 2: because I will say so how Brand. He's charming, he

2413
02:26:09,440 --> 02:26:14,959
Speaker 2: is good at forging metal, he is easily accepted into groups.

2414
02:26:15,200 --> 02:26:18,120
Speaker 2: There is a world where he would fit into the

2415
02:26:18,560 --> 02:26:23,240
Speaker 2: the Anatar personality. I will say, though, I and we're

2416
02:26:23,240 --> 02:26:26,000
Speaker 2: going to bring in producer Chris because he also has

2417
02:26:26,040 --> 02:26:27,039
Speaker 2: good theories about this.

2418
02:26:27,240 --> 02:26:29,640
Speaker 1: He has a Chris Chris on this.

2419
02:26:30,200 --> 02:26:32,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Rosie, you hit a lot of what I

2420
02:26:32,760 --> 02:26:35,960
Speaker 3: have been thinking too, which is basically everything that Adar

2421
02:26:36,120 --> 02:26:40,879
Speaker 3: says feels like it could go multiple directions. I agree, Yeah, Like,

2422
02:26:41,320 --> 02:26:45,039
Speaker 3: we know how Brand has a grudge against a Dar,

2423
02:26:45,160 --> 02:26:47,360
Speaker 3: but we don't know. He's like, it's implied that it's

2424
02:26:47,400 --> 02:26:49,360
Speaker 3: like a family than we don't know one hundred percent,

2425
02:26:49,959 --> 02:26:51,360
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's like implied that.

2426
02:26:51,360 --> 02:26:52,640
Speaker 2: It was his family is killed.

2427
02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:56,840
Speaker 5: But like if a Dar seemingly killed him, he'd be

2428
02:26:56,840 --> 02:27:01,720
Speaker 5: pissed and he would want revenge. And your other point

2429
02:27:01,720 --> 02:27:07,600
Speaker 5: about like his relationship Gladriel, she is definitely like turning dark.

2430
02:27:07,800 --> 02:27:11,120
Speaker 5: And I could see hal Brad be like, oh, this

2431
02:27:11,160 --> 02:27:14,080
Speaker 5: could be my new Adar, this my new second in command.

2432
02:27:14,920 --> 02:27:17,800
Speaker 5: Helf that I can corrupt to do what I want.

2433
02:27:18,400 --> 02:27:20,640
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that, and I love the

2434
02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:27,199
Speaker 1: you know, looked at from that perspective, it being Halbrand's

2435
02:27:27,280 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 1: plan kind of that he knows that Gladriel would step

2436
02:27:32,480 --> 02:27:35,480
Speaker 1: in in that moment and then take it further. Even

2437
02:27:35,560 --> 02:27:38,279
Speaker 1: then maybe she was prepared to go and be darker.

2438
02:27:38,680 --> 02:27:41,360
Speaker 1: This could all be a plot to corrupt and elf.

2439
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:46,959
Speaker 1: You get them so obsessed with feelings of revenge and

2440
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:50,240
Speaker 1: justice and goodness that they are doing something good, a

2441
02:27:50,280 --> 02:27:52,600
Speaker 1: good mission, and you push and push and push and

2442
02:27:52,640 --> 02:27:55,119
Speaker 1: push and put them in a position to go too far.

2443
02:27:55,240 --> 02:27:58,800
Speaker 1: I actually love that me too. That's I just don't. Yeah,

2444
02:27:59,000 --> 02:28:01,240
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't know how it could work,

2445
02:28:01,280 --> 02:28:06,360
Speaker 1: but it would be amazing. Why doesn't then question why

2446
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:14,119
Speaker 1: doesn't a dar sense who Halbrand is? Why does he

2447
02:28:14,560 --> 02:28:20,880
Speaker 1: kind of reciprocate that he did somehow murder people. Why

2448
02:28:20,920 --> 02:28:24,000
Speaker 1: does he seem to know that he murdered Halbrand's family?

2449
02:28:24,080 --> 02:28:26,800
Speaker 1: If that is what we are meant to believe, I

2450
02:28:27,200 --> 02:28:30,240
Speaker 1: I to that more. Are they working? Are they actually

2451
02:28:30,280 --> 02:28:30,959
Speaker 1: working together?

2452
02:28:31,840 --> 02:28:33,080
Speaker 2: That would be a huge twist.

2453
02:28:33,360 --> 02:28:33,840
Speaker 1: I love that.

2454
02:28:33,959 --> 02:28:35,800
Speaker 2: No, I took it more as that kind of like

2455
02:28:37,400 --> 02:28:40,000
Speaker 2: in Street Fighter, you know, m Bison, there's this like

2456
02:28:40,080 --> 02:28:42,200
Speaker 2: really famous scene in the movie where he's like, you know,

2457
02:28:42,280 --> 02:28:44,360
Speaker 2: I killed you. It was like the most important day

2458
02:28:44,360 --> 02:28:46,039
Speaker 2: of your life. But me killing your family was just

2459
02:28:46,040 --> 02:28:48,320
Speaker 2: like a Tuesday. My assumption was just like and I

2460
02:28:48,360 --> 02:28:50,080
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I probably did kill your family, Like

2461
02:28:50,080 --> 02:28:51,240
Speaker 2: I killed a lot of family.

2462
02:28:51,240 --> 02:28:54,160
Speaker 1: I killed so many people, yeah yeah, yeah back in

2463
02:28:54,200 --> 02:28:56,600
Speaker 1: the war. Forget about it, Like I wiped out so

2464
02:28:56,800 --> 02:29:00,080
Speaker 1: many people at L's And I actually don't recall.

2465
02:29:00,160 --> 02:29:02,080
Speaker 5: That's just a noble day for him. I'm just gonna

2466
02:29:02,080 --> 02:29:04,200
Speaker 5: go kill some families, No big deal.

2467
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:09,960
Speaker 1: That said, I do wonder if as the master strategist,

2468
02:29:10,560 --> 02:29:14,959
Speaker 1: the ultimate corruptor and manipulator. If Saron and Adar are

2469
02:29:15,000 --> 02:29:18,920
Speaker 1: not running some kind of very very subtle and complex

2470
02:29:19,040 --> 02:29:24,280
Speaker 1: play to then corrupt more elves and powerful elves and

2471
02:29:24,360 --> 02:29:29,440
Speaker 1: take not only take a powerful opponent and Gladriel off

2472
02:29:29,440 --> 02:29:33,560
Speaker 1: the board, who has been pursuing Saarn for untold centuries,

2473
02:29:34,280 --> 02:29:38,320
Speaker 1: but turn her into an ally in some fucked up way.

2474
02:29:38,560 --> 02:29:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I think that this is like, I love

2475
02:29:40,879 --> 02:29:43,120
Speaker 2: that we came to this place with this theory, Chris,

2476
02:29:43,120 --> 02:29:46,160
Speaker 2: because like this also fits in. So the whole thing

2477
02:29:46,200 --> 02:29:50,400
Speaker 2: about the elves getting the myth thrill because they're gonna die,

2478
02:29:50,600 --> 02:29:53,240
Speaker 2: that's that's new. And we never really knew how the

2479
02:29:53,240 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 2: elves got my thrill. We just knew that they did

2480
02:29:55,120 --> 02:29:58,680
Speaker 2: process it. So this is kind of mind blowing because

2481
02:29:58,720 --> 02:30:01,280
Speaker 2: also the elves are in the weakest position they've ever

2482
02:30:01,320 --> 02:30:03,000
Speaker 2: been in. Of course it's going to be easy to

2483
02:30:03,040 --> 02:30:06,520
Speaker 2: manipulate them into forging the rings Celea Brimble because they

2484
02:30:06,560 --> 02:30:09,920
Speaker 2: need them to survive. So this is like very We're

2485
02:30:09,959 --> 02:30:12,640
Speaker 2: in very interesting space here. I think the only thing

2486
02:30:12,680 --> 02:30:16,240
Speaker 2: I would say is if Cela Brimble is already thinking

2487
02:30:16,240 --> 02:30:20,160
Speaker 2: about making the rings, there is a chance that Souron

2488
02:30:20,240 --> 02:30:24,200
Speaker 2: or Anato, whatever version is already their manipulating him. And

2489
02:30:24,240 --> 02:30:27,000
Speaker 2: if that's the case, I'll be very interested to see

2490
02:30:27,400 --> 02:30:29,640
Speaker 2: if we get to see him come up against one

2491
02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:33,280
Speaker 2: of our potential sourn's and realize or if it is

2492
02:30:33,720 --> 02:30:36,280
Speaker 2: that character from the trailer with the bleached hair and

2493
02:30:36,360 --> 02:30:39,879
Speaker 2: the white cloak. I think a lot of people assumed

2494
02:30:40,120 --> 02:30:41,000
Speaker 2: was was Salad.

2495
02:30:41,520 --> 02:30:44,119
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure it's ultimately going to be the Stranger.

2496
02:30:44,200 --> 02:30:45,840
Speaker 5: Like I actually don't know anything about Lord of the Rings.

2497
02:30:45,879 --> 02:30:47,840
Speaker 5: I've just been very invested in this one show.

2498
02:30:48,080 --> 02:30:49,520
Speaker 2: So I'm approaching it.

2499
02:30:50,200 --> 02:30:53,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm approaching it just from like a storytelling perspective,

2500
02:30:53,520 --> 02:30:55,240
Speaker 5: and maybe it's just because of also been watching House

2501
02:30:55,280 --> 02:30:58,040
Speaker 5: the Dragon and so I'm thinking, like Kristen Cole is

2502
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:00,440
Speaker 5: like the handsome charming one becomes a total heel, and

2503
02:31:00,480 --> 02:31:01,960
Speaker 5: I'm in that mindset, and I think that's going to

2504
02:31:02,000 --> 02:31:04,320
Speaker 5: happen Togain with Halbrand. But I don't know, we shall see.

2505
02:31:04,879 --> 02:31:10,960
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know how it would. Yeah, I don't

2506
02:31:11,120 --> 02:31:13,640
Speaker 1: exactly know how it worked, but it would be amazing

2507
02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:18,480
Speaker 1: if he is. If Halbrid is Surron and as a

2508
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:22,760
Speaker 1: super producer, Saul is pointing out in the chat. Remember

2509
02:31:23,600 --> 02:31:27,440
Speaker 1: how Gladriel reacts when she discovers that Froto has the ring,

2510
02:31:27,560 --> 02:31:31,600
Speaker 1: that kind of like explosion of of self regard and

2511
02:31:31,879 --> 02:31:34,880
Speaker 1: arrogance that she has to like very very mightily pull

2512
02:31:35,000 --> 02:31:38,840
Speaker 1: back from. It feels like we are seeing the roots

2513
02:31:38,879 --> 02:31:43,440
Speaker 1: of that now. I can't wait to find out what happens,

2514
02:31:43,440 --> 02:31:46,080
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to find out. I can't wait

2515
02:31:46,120 --> 02:31:50,120
Speaker 1: to watch the next episode, which feels like it's got

2516
02:31:50,120 --> 02:31:51,240
Speaker 1: to be the saar On episode.

2517
02:31:51,280 --> 02:31:54,240
Speaker 2: I feel I feel like there's only two episodes left,

2518
02:31:54,760 --> 02:31:56,520
Speaker 2: and as we know from the way that we watch

2519
02:31:56,520 --> 02:32:00,119
Speaker 2: Presti TV seven, You're lost. Your penultimate episode is usual

2520
02:32:00,200 --> 02:32:02,880
Speaker 2: a big reveal episode, and the finale is the four

2521
02:32:02,959 --> 02:32:07,160
Speaker 2: out episode. So fingers crossed we will find out who

2522
02:32:07,240 --> 02:32:09,720
Speaker 2: Saren is, if not the next week, then the week afterwards.

2523
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:11,520
Speaker 2: But I can't wait. This was so much fun to

2524
02:32:11,520 --> 02:32:13,800
Speaker 2: talk about. Thank you, Chris, thanks for having me.

2525
02:32:15,800 --> 02:32:18,879
Speaker 1: A big thank you Rosie Night for joining us, and

2526
02:32:18,920 --> 02:32:22,720
Speaker 1: of course we're super producer Chris for adding so much

2527
02:32:22,800 --> 02:32:25,880
Speaker 1: to our who is Sorrow and conversation.

2528
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:28,040
Speaker 2: Corrupted.

2529
02:32:29,720 --> 02:32:31,320
Speaker 1: I got chills as we were talking.

2530
02:32:31,400 --> 02:32:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is so good. You can follow me

2531
02:32:35,400 --> 02:32:40,440
Speaker 2: on letterbox and Instagram. Rosie Marx, you can read all

2532
02:32:40,440 --> 02:32:42,720
Speaker 2: my articles. Ign I write about Lord of the Rings.

2533
02:32:42,800 --> 02:32:45,400
Speaker 2: Noticed I write about a bunch of other stuff. Sheehole,

2534
02:32:45,480 --> 02:32:48,200
Speaker 2: all that good stuff. Also at Polygon you can find

2535
02:32:48,240 --> 02:32:51,680
Speaker 2: comic book more comic book specific stuff. But also around

2536
02:32:51,720 --> 02:32:54,640
Speaker 2: all these topics I kind of drift around. I can

2537
02:32:54,720 --> 02:32:58,560
Speaker 2: now confirm I will have exciting comic book news that

2538
02:32:58,600 --> 02:33:03,199
Speaker 2: I can share soon. And yeah, so just and obviously

2539
02:33:03,240 --> 02:33:05,840
Speaker 2: here talking about all this cool stuff every week.

2540
02:33:09,879 --> 02:33:12,879
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode of X ray Vision on October seventh.

2541
02:33:12,879 --> 02:33:15,240
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the show on YouTube, and don't forget to

2542
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:18,720
Speaker 1: follow at XRV pod on Twitter and check out our

2543
02:33:18,760 --> 02:33:21,920
Speaker 1: discord links in the show notes where you can hang

2544
02:33:21,959 --> 02:33:24,879
Speaker 1: out have great conversations with other fans of the show

2545
02:33:24,920 --> 02:33:27,200
Speaker 1: who love talking about the stuff that we love talking about.

2546
02:33:28,360 --> 02:33:30,160
Speaker 1: Rosie and I are active there and we can't read

2547
02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:31,680
Speaker 1: to see you there. Remember you have a House of

2548
02:33:31,720 --> 02:33:34,840
Speaker 1: the Dragon questions. Send them to ask Theemaster at gmail

2549
02:33:34,879 --> 02:33:38,040
Speaker 1: dot com and leave us the five star reviews. Those

2550
02:33:38,040 --> 02:33:39,800
Speaker 1: five star ratings, we love them, we got have them,

2551
02:33:39,840 --> 02:33:44,200
Speaker 1: we need them. We absolutely have to see them, much

2552
02:33:44,320 --> 02:33:46,760
Speaker 1: like a dar has to build a homeland for the orcs.

2553
02:33:46,800 --> 02:33:48,600
Speaker 1: We got to see the five star reviews and here's

2554
02:33:48,640 --> 02:33:52,039
Speaker 1: a great one from Corgy cmh. I love the show,

2555
02:33:52,080 --> 02:33:54,040
Speaker 1: the commentary, the knowledge on the subject matter, and the

2556
02:33:54,080 --> 02:33:56,320
Speaker 1: banter between hosts Jason and Rosie are so full of life.

2557
02:33:56,320 --> 02:34:00,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, and excitement and an amazing chemistry. This wonderful

2558
02:34:00,520 --> 02:34:03,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Corgy cmh. Love to hear that. X ray

2559
02:34:04,000 --> 02:34:05,640
Speaker 1: Vision is a Crooked Media production of the show is

2560
02:34:05,640 --> 02:34:07,440
Speaker 1: produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is

2561
02:34:07,480 --> 02:34:10,400
Speaker 1: executive produced by myself and Sandy Arhard are editing in

2562
02:34:10,440 --> 02:34:14,360
Speaker 1: sound design Who's by Vacillis Fatopoulos. Dilon Villanueva and Matt

2563
02:34:14,480 --> 02:34:18,000
Speaker 1: Group provide video production support. Alex Rella Ford handle social media.

2564
02:34:18,080 --> 02:34:21,840
Speaker 1: Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. Folks, see you

2565
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:22,600
Speaker 1: next time.

2566
02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:27,440
Speaker 6: Bye, Hey Mike is his not for Marine. Yeah, I

2567
02:34:27,520 --> 02:34:29,879
Speaker 6: just want to talk about the events that went down

2568
02:34:29,879 --> 02:34:31,400
Speaker 6: in the Ottic kings landing today.

2569
02:34:31,440 --> 02:34:34,400
Speaker 2: First of all, Yeah, I think.

2570
02:34:33,879 --> 02:34:37,600
Speaker 6: It's bad coaching from Kristin Cole Got. You gotta coach

2571
02:34:37,720 --> 02:34:41,920
Speaker 6: up your young players. You gotta develop them, not just

2572
02:34:42,040 --> 02:34:45,720
Speaker 6: Agon and Amon, you gotta develop Jason Luke also, and

2573
02:34:45,800 --> 02:34:48,400
Speaker 6: I think Harwin strong while he was just a guy,

2574
02:34:48,560 --> 02:34:51,879
Speaker 6: you know there, not part of the coaching staff, not

2575
02:34:52,000 --> 02:34:54,520
Speaker 6: part of officially the coaching staff. He's just a fan.

2576
02:34:55,440 --> 02:34:57,680
Speaker 6: While he did get involved, and I think he overstepped

2577
02:34:57,720 --> 02:35:01,200
Speaker 6: a little bit a little bit, Mike. He's right, Mike,

2578
02:35:01,280 --> 02:35:04,400
Speaker 6: you gotta spread it around. Jace's gonna be the crown prince.

2579
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:07,560
Speaker 6: You gotta make sure that he's trained up also. And

2580
02:35:08,040 --> 02:35:09,760
Speaker 6: about the room is Mike, you know, I heard so

2581
02:35:09,840 --> 02:35:12,160
Speaker 6: much about the rumors. They're tearing up the locker room.

2582
02:35:12,200 --> 02:35:13,640
Speaker 6: Everybody's talking about them.

2583
02:35:13,760 --> 02:35:13,959
Speaker 3: You know.

2584
02:35:14,720 --> 02:35:17,120
Speaker 6: I don't want to get into him because I you

2585
02:35:17,160 --> 02:35:19,320
Speaker 6: know what they are. I know what they are. I

2586
02:35:19,440 --> 02:35:23,280
Speaker 6: just think they're scurless, they're terrible rumors. Harwin Strong is

2587
02:35:23,360 --> 02:35:23,880
Speaker 6: just that guy.

2588
02:35:23,959 --> 02:35:24,199
Speaker 1: Listen.

2589
02:35:24,320 --> 02:35:25,800
Speaker 6: I don't know him, but I know a lot of

2590
02:35:25,840 --> 02:35:27,520
Speaker 6: people who are close with him, and they just say

2591
02:35:27,520 --> 02:35:29,400
Speaker 6: he's a great guy. He takes a lot of interest

2592
02:35:29,520 --> 02:35:32,440
Speaker 6: in the young people and the youth, and he's just

2593
02:35:32,480 --> 02:35:35,280
Speaker 6: a big fan of amateur sports. Mike, So I'll take

2594
02:35:35,320 --> 02:35:36,520
Speaker 6: my answer off the air. Thank you.