1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: Hi, I'MBLDNA Higher Across Acid Reporter with Bloomberg and Armed 2 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: Romaine Bostic, and this week on the show, well, investors 3 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of worries to deal with inflation, COVID, 4 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine, China's lockdowns, and the fresh supply 5 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: chain was all of that's igniting. The list goes on. 6 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Many Monday managers have by now reduced their expectations for 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: soccer returns this year. But what affears over recession are 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: overblown and the second half of the year turns out 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: better than expected. We're going to get into all of 10 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: that with a well known investment advisor. But first, Romaine, 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining us 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: this week. You're filling in from Mike, who's galvanting in 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: California right now. I believe California. He's on vacation. He is, 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: he's on vacation. Hopefully he's having having a lot of fun. 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if I tell the listeners a secret 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: about you. Wow, Okay, you're starting off strong. Yeah, yeah, 17 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: just kicking kicking, kicking things off really really strongly. You 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: You've been a Bloomberg for something like two decades, right 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: not to aid you. Well, you've just aged me. Yes, 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: and I have been here one years to be exact, 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: last January. Yeah, it's a long time, but you know, 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: I've had a great time here, and you know, you 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: think about all those different market cycles that you cover, 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: the economic cycles, not only in the twenty one years 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: i've been here, but of course, uh in my career 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: before I haven't got here. Yeah, you're a Bloomberg TV veteran. 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: So we're really lucky to have you this week. Um, 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: but I do I do want to introduce our our guest. 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: We're joined by Sylvia Jablonski this week. She's the CEO, 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: c I O and co founder of Defiance E t 31 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: F S. Welcome to the show, Sylvia, I thank you 32 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: so much for having me. Happy to be here today. 33 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: It's great to have you. Maybe just to start out, 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: you can sort of give us an overview of Defiance 35 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: and what you guys are forcused on. I know you're 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: heavily focused on thematics, but just give us a little 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: bit back on on you and the company. Yeah, sure, 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: i'd be happy to um. So, Defiance is a company 39 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: that is focused on thematic ETF investing so we'd like 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: to think of ourselves as an E t F firm 41 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: and an investment company that provides access to some of 42 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 1: the most disruptive and and you know, futuristic themes out there. UM. 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: We have E t F s that that cover different 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: topics like five G quantum computing, hydrogen psychedelics, UM, the 45 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: reopen trade and f t s for example. So we're 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: really focused on that next generation trader UM. You know, 47 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: the trailings involve coming down fromt the baby boomers to 48 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: sort of younger people who are interested in what is technology, 49 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: se semiconductors, communication and and the things things like UM 50 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: that for tomorrow will look like UM. So are our 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: main goals to come out with part of their cost 52 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: efficient and giving access to these different sectors. We're also 53 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: heavily invested in digital assets and and very interested in 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: building out in that space. My role at the company 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: is CEO and c i O, so I do a 56 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: lot of work in terms of providing research, investment ideas, 57 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: investment strategies just generally on you know, the market different 58 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: market insight, and then also UM working on the E 59 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: t F side itself, still helping with things like product 60 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: development and you know, managing, uh, the overall direction of 61 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: the firm. Well, Sylvia, let's start off here and really 62 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: kind of talk a little bit. I think about just 63 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: kind of how the investment landscape has changed. I mean 64 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: down of course, starts off by aging me out real quick. 65 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: So I'll just kind of pick up where she left off. 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: You know, when I, you know, first got out of 67 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: college and I started investing, I literally walked into a 68 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: t row Price office of physical office, and you know, 69 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: got a mutual fund and I had you know, a 70 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: certain percentage of my paycheck taken out every month that 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: then I'll go into that fund. And it was a 72 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: slow slog, but that was investing for the individual investor 73 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: that was investing. And what we look at today is 74 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: so much different now just the options that individual investors have, 75 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: both in terms of the asset classes, but also the 76 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: sophistication that you get now that you have access to 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: now that you didn't necessarily get back then, and obviously 78 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: that gives you the potential for a greater return. And 79 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: I guess to build a nest egg in a more 80 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: layered way and into a certain extent of faster way 81 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: than you could in the past when people come to 82 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: you and talk to you, and not just the individual investors, 83 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: but even some of the institutions here. Are they cognizant 84 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: of that? Are they cognizant of just how much has changed? Yeah? 85 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: And and that's a great, great thought and a great question. 86 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I can probably age myself along with you, 87 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: because that's about when I started in this industry too. 88 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: And you know when I started UM. I started my 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: career Deutsche Bank, working in baqued derivatives, and and you know, 90 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: we're sort of um the younger folks, and the investment 91 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: banking training program revised by the older folks to take 92 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: a percentage of our UM income and put it into 93 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: the SMP five hundred and the bank would match, which 94 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: that never I don't know if that happens at Bloomberg, 95 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,559 Speaker 1: but that never happens anymore anywhere else. The bank would 96 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: match it, and you just kind of leave it there. 97 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: And and twenty years later, lo and behold, got a 98 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: lot of money in there. Right. But UM, which is 99 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: great and actually historically has worked really well. Right, we 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: know that the SMP five hundred analyzed return is UM 101 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: is about you know, twelve percenter, So so that's great. 102 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: But in the last couple of years there have been 103 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: all these awesome themes and and different you know sorts 104 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: of movements and progressions in the market, particularly around UH 105 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: technology and particularly around cryptocurrency in the blockchain, and you 106 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: know a lot of these investments have really been high flyers. 107 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: So for for young people, young traders that you know, 108 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: have risk appetite, have sort of the income to let's say, 109 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: take a chance because there's a lot of risk. You know, 110 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: they have these great options in terms of what they 111 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: can invest in, and and that varies from you know, 112 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: bitcoin to the future of the metaverse to you web 113 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: three point out to some of these concepts that don't 114 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: exist yet. And you know, usually what happens with with 115 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: that is it's really interesting because this is actually how 116 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: how it went at at Defiance, right, we came out 117 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: with the first five g e t F, and and 118 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: this was you know, just just gobbled up by young 119 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: retail investors, so that credit crowd, that um, that Robin 120 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Hood trader. You know, we could just tell by the 121 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: size of the trades that these were not institutional players. 122 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: And then you know, the e t F gets past 123 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: that half a billion dollar mark and now all of 124 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: a sudden, if you look at you know, you look 125 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg and you look at the top holders, they're 126 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: they're now institutions, right, So I think what you know 127 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: to your point, I think, you know, retail traders, um, 128 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: young investors sort of figure out the trends before, before 129 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: their trends, and then you know, when some of them 130 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: really snowball and become bigger and see a lot of it, 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: you I'm going into them. I think it piques the 132 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: interest of advisors. You know, they then do their due 133 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: diligence and they've got that five to tem percent sleeve 134 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: of you know, sort of speculative raids or um, you know, 135 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,119 Speaker 1: disruptive technologies that they're willing to put money into and 136 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: and and they allocate and sylvy just to keep it keep. 137 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Get get some more of your your thoughts on what's 138 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: been going on with markets. I was reading this note 139 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: earlier this week that said the SMP five hundred has 140 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: cross above it's two hundred day moving average more than 141 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: five times so far this year, a cross below it's 142 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: six times so far this year. So, just how are 143 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: you making sense of what's been going on with the 144 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: market and how does it actually feel to be a 145 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 1: part of this or to be invested right now? Uh? 146 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, I think if you ask the average investor, 147 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: my my guess is that they would say it doesn't 148 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: feel super good to be an investment in the market 149 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: this year. It's not it's not as fun as it 150 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: has been for the last decade, let's say, or you know, 151 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: even even sort of like those those few months post 152 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: COVID where everything you started going straight up and you know, 153 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: are are all of our trading accounts look great? We 154 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: all look like geniuses. And you know, now, I think 155 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: the market just just has a lot of headwinds. There's 156 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty in the market right now. You have, 157 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, a FED that wants to raise rates for 158 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: lower inflation, um and not creative recession. You know, hear 159 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: about this like soft length landing. You know, inflation has 160 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: been higher than ever. Um. You have issues with geopolitics. 161 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: You you essentially have have all war Russia Ukraine situation. 162 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: You have a strain on perhaps um you know, major commodities, 163 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: oil gas, you know, and then sort of circling down 164 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: depending on how how long this goes into we and 165 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: different things, UM. And you know you have you have 166 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: a lot of essentially fear that the combination of FED 167 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: hikes and inflation will will create a situation where, um, 168 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're sort of in in stagculation or 169 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: perhaps just don't have don't have great growth in the future. 170 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: But you know, my take on this is, you know, 171 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: so here we are, it makes sense. Um there there 172 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: as we said, a lot of these headwinds to them market. 173 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: But UM, what that means is that you're going to 174 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: have this rangebound volatility. The market is going to trade, 175 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: as you said, you know, in these levels, whether it's 176 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: a sp other industries like NAZAC or sort of in 177 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: a bear market. But what I think is that inflation, 178 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: but geopolitics are likely at this point priced into the market. UM. 179 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: And I think that consumer remains strong. I think that 180 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, historically, tightening monetary policy is followed by solid 181 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: gains SMP rising at about nine percent or so. You know, 182 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: companies have money, consumers are spending. Um, inflation is likely. 183 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: So I actually think that we're going to have a 184 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: pretty decent year. I just think that in the short 185 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: term it's going to be um, not so fun. Everything 186 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: you mentioned there, they seem like economic problems, and in 187 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: the past, when we talk about market downturns, at least 188 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: some of the bigger shocks to that market turned out 189 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: to be more centered around the financial system. And I'm wondering, 190 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: if you see any of the sort of economic weaknesses 191 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: that everyone's pointing to today, whether that has any real 192 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: material carry over into financial markets in the sense that 193 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: it could cause some sort of destabilization in capital markets. 194 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: You know, I think I think that if if a 195 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: lot of the topics I just discussed were to go 196 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: in a different place, For example, if the FED hikes 197 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, more aggressively, um and and sort of doesn't 198 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: doesn't feel satisfied with with inflation falling, and you know, 199 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: you start to see um kind of a harder landing 200 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: than you know, I do think that some of that 201 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: will start feeding into the market. Um. You know, banks 202 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: are in good shape, so this isn't two thousand eight, 203 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: right cutting some pretty good shape. The consumers in good shape. 204 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: The depth servicing ratios are stronger than than they've been 205 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: in decades, So you know, consumers essentially have these two 206 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: shillion in savings. They have lower amounts of death than 207 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: they've ever had before. Um, so I think that I 208 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: think that the market can be more resilient this time. 209 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: And I know famous last words, right, it's it's it's 210 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: different this time. But well, it is different to a 211 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: certain extent because when you look at the past cycles, 212 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: say go back past a decade or two ago, you're 213 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: talking about rates that were coming from a much different baseline. Here. 214 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, to go from near zero to three. Let's 215 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: assume that's the neutral rate here. I mean an economy 216 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: or a capital market that can't withstand but three federal 217 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: funds rate. Yeah, right, and then real rates are still 218 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, hovering, hovering, um, you know, negative levels. Right. 219 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: So so that's another factor, like I just don't I 220 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: think some of this is you know, some of this 221 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: is an actual shaine on the market, right. But in 222 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: the near term where we are today, I mean, this 223 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: is very unlikely to highly impact some of the quality 224 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, megacap companies out there, like the Amazons, the Apples, 225 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: like these companies that have pricing power, um, you know, 226 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: against strong consumer, strong balance sheets, are doing buybacks and 227 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. Like, I don't think it's 228 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: going to impact those companies. A lot of the high 229 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: growth names are you know, with high doubt levels will 230 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: be impacted, but you know they're they're just always sort 231 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: of in that position, right UM, where where they're volatile, 232 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: and rate hikes kind of throw off the performance that 233 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: But I think the broad based economy can withstand um, 234 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: you know, what we're expecting anyway in terms of rate hikes. 235 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: So then if if things are a little bit brighter 236 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: in the second half of the year, or if we 237 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: do have a sort of trade I think you call 238 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: it a tradeable bottom. At this point, what are you recommending? What? 239 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: What are you telling people when they ask you what 240 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: they should be investing in? Yeah, so you know, it's 241 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: it's important to sort of classify what type of trader 242 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: you are too, right, So I think if you're looking for, 243 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, short term returns UM, I think that's trickier. 244 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: You know, I think the machines and high frequency guys 245 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: do a great job with that, but I think you know, 246 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: the average investor that was doing well with UM, you know, 247 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: kind of day trading over the past year, it becomes 248 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: little are dangerous just because you do have so much 249 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: range round volatility. You know, just look at the difference 250 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: in in the NAZAC for example, UM, over the last 251 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: couple of days and the performance there. But I think 252 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: if you have, you know, an appetite to be a 253 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: long term investor and to get really the deal of 254 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: a century, I think, UM, you know, take a step 255 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: back and look at names like Apple, Google, Microsoft Again, 256 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: you've got negative real rates, companies with strong balance sheets, 257 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: pricing power UM, consumers willing to spend money we tell, 258 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, we tell sales rising, and then just the 259 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: theme of cyber security, cloud um, you know, metaverse, web 260 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: three point oh, the future of all technology kind of 261 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: hangs in the balance of these companies. So I just 262 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, and I think even the semi conductors like 263 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: Niviti and m D they're just been absolutely crushed. UM. 264 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: I just think that, you know, the longer term outlook 265 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: for those names, it's going to be what buying Apple 266 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: was ten years ago. You know, that's you're you're going 267 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: to see those compounded returns. I also love the reopen trade. 268 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: You know, we know that spending is going from goods 269 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: to services UM, and it is increasing, but you know, 270 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: lifting the mask mandates UM. You know this this post 271 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: COVID getting out of the house. There I mean, there's 272 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: just so much pent up demand to travel. You know, 273 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: Delta earnings UM call was pretty awesome, Like March is 274 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: the best year that they had ever in terms of 275 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: like business bookings. That's a good trade. Hotels, cruises, you know, caristinos, airlines. 276 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a good place to look in the 277 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: near term. Yeah, I think Mike Reagan would agree, considering 278 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: that he just got on a flight out to California 279 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: and Sylvia. I've done a lot of booking travel myself 280 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: here for personal reasons over the last few months, though, 281 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: But I do wonder are we in a situation, at 282 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: least in the short term, where all of that pent 283 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: up demand sort of overwhelmed supply. I mean, anyone who's 284 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: tried to book a flight knows that prices are considerably 285 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: higher than what you would have paid a couple of 286 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: years ago. Even finding a ticket at all can be 287 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: kind of difficult given some of the capacity constraints that 288 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: some of these airlines that put themselves in. And you're 289 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: seeing that with other services businesses as well, including a cruise, 290 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: ships and some hotels and resorts. Yeah, and that's a 291 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: great you know, that's a great point, and I think 292 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: that that is actually one of the one of the 293 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: major contributing factors to inflation. It's you know, sort of 294 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: similar but also different to the supply chain issues with 295 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: semiconductors and trying to buy a car and things like that. 296 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: But you know, all of that is going to take 297 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: time to to shake out, and it feels like we're 298 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: in the peak of it. I mean, I agree with you. 299 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: I I just booked myself some tickets to Greece and 300 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: um to to go see some family there after a 301 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: couple of years of not going because of COVID, and 302 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, the tickets just looking at them a week 303 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: before you know, the sort of announcement of RuSHA versus Ukraine, 304 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: to to looking at them two weeks after that started happening. 305 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the tickets just absolutely skyrocketed. So I felt 306 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: that pain too. But I think that I think that 307 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: airlines understand that they're going to have to go back 308 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: to UM efficiency, and you know, the news we're getting 309 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: from a lot of them is that it's been better 310 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: in terms of hiring. You know, they're paying more UM, 311 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: They're they're finally sort of like getting a lot of 312 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: the positions filled and whatnot. So it takes some time 313 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: to to you know, settle in with all of this. 314 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: But again, I think we're sort of like at the 315 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: peak of the worst of that romane. If if Mike 316 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: has a hard time booking his return flight back from California, 317 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: you are more than welcome to be the new co host. 318 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: He can just stay there. Yeah, he can just stay there. 319 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: But Sylvia, um, you mentioned the shift uh in spending 320 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: from goods to services, which a lot of people have 321 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: been anticipating for a while now, And actually I was 322 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: reading another note earlier this week that said SMP companies 323 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: are just much more geared towards goods than they are services. 324 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: So as this shift unfolds, we can actually start to 325 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: see small cap companies start to benefit more as people 326 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: start spending more on services, just because there's many more 327 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: restaurants and leisure hotel those types of stocks within the 328 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: rust of two thousands. So I'm wondering if you've been 329 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: thinking about that and whether or not that also makes 330 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: sense to you. Yeah, I mean I think that that's 331 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's a very broad based indexed and you know, 332 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: while some of these names are represented there, I would 333 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: rather just go to the source with this one. You know, 334 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: I'd rather just kind of trade the sector itself, like 335 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: I'd look at airlines, I look at hotels. I'd look 336 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: at you know, cruise ships, and and maybe even some 337 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: single stock names like the entertainment types of names. Um, 338 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: just because I think that you know, a lot of 339 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of the names in the 340 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: small cap index will will definitely have some growth struggles 341 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: in terms of you know, increased wraith and and whatnot. 342 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: I do think that they'll you know, have more of 343 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: an issue and say some of the mega cap stocks 344 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: I'm still in the mega stock camp versus small caps. Well, 345 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: I am curious so too. I mean to Danna's point 346 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: too about the idea of of how the market is structure, 347 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: or at least how we think it's xt you're here, 348 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk here about I guess, 349 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: how you do more fundamental analysis in a world where 350 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: companies are more wedded to not just services, but even 351 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: sort of intangible items. Here, you don't really value a 352 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: company like an alphabet or even an Apple for that matter, 353 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: which sells physical goods, but they don't necessarily have that 354 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: physical footprint that you know, the old school companies that 355 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, we would know like a ge or a 356 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: Boeing or something like that would have And I wonder 357 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: how you have to shift your mindset when you're trying 358 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: to create, uh some sort of model for what value 359 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: really is these days. Yeah, that's a great point. And 360 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: if you think about you know, sort of the the 361 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: number one thing that you know, you learn finance in 362 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: terms of like fundamental analysis, right, you have to understand 363 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: the company, You have to understand what they're intending to 364 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: invest in. Um, you know, what they're doing exactly, who 365 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: their competitors are. And there are definitely some things in 366 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: our world, like metaverse for example, that that most people 367 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: just don't really understand, but replacing super high valuations on right. Um, 368 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: So I think though that you know, the way I 369 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: look at things is in terms of actual analysis, Like 370 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: you continue to study the financial reports of the company, 371 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: You check the debt, you check the cash on hand. 372 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: You know, you sort of take a look and compare, 373 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: you know, what each company is doing to his or 374 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: her competitor. But my big focus is is and you know, 375 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: this is sort of a uh maybe a symptom or 376 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: a benefit of working for thematic um investment firm is 377 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: where is the it's where is the puck going? What 378 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: are the secular um technological trends of the future. You know, 379 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: what are we trying to do while we're trying to 380 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, fight climate change. So then you know that 381 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: that's gonna take a really long time. But if you 382 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: think about what that opens up for, it could be hydrogen, 383 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: it could be green metals, and then you know you 384 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: can kind of do your your fundamental analysis on a 385 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: lot of the companies in that space. You know, if 386 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: I think about again, communication, UM, semiconductors, things like AD 387 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean with Navidia and and D. You know, are 388 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people argue that there are very high 389 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: valuations and this is kind of you know, where they 390 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: should be. And you know, I disagree. I think they're 391 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: they're grossly undervalued because they're they're part of every single 392 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, future secular trend, whether it's electric vehicles, whether 393 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: it's UM you know, powering your your your coffee maker, 394 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: or or you know, missile targeting during a war or 395 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: UM you know everything basically AI A, A g R, 396 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: you know all that stuff. So you mentioned the metaverse. 397 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: You take something like metaverse or augmented reality, and there's 398 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: still a lot of questions as to what's the tangible 399 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: use case for some of that stuff. Yeah, it may 400 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: be fun to play, but is there sort of a 401 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: longer term strato you there that is going to make 402 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: that a necessity in our lives? Yeah, So I think 403 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: I think we could have like a very we could 404 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: probably spend an hour debating, you know, the metaverse. And 405 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: it's funny because I I do spend many years to 406 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: making this with people work at Facebook that are working 407 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: on it. In terms of just like on a basic level, 408 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: I would rather go walking in the park than than 409 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: you know, put on a headset and like maybe be 410 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: in a park but with the head set on and 411 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: like not looking at the birds of the trees around 412 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: me and like you know, playing basketball versus getting a 413 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: cool avatar with you know whatever. But but I think 414 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: web three point oh is more of a tangible reality. 415 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: And I think that you know, the technologies that will 416 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: will power that or things that will also power the metaverse. 417 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: So I think that you know, there is enough of 418 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: a market for that, um but I would rather focus 419 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: on sort of like web web three point or decentralized 420 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: finance appear to appear, you know, transaction, the cryptocurrency, the 421 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: blockchain opportunities. Um you know sort of how that changes 422 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: the world. And I think that that is very very tangible, 423 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: like you don't think about things like, um, you know, 424 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: how how could that impact like shipping? Right? So, so 425 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: smart contracts imagine you know all the build ups that 426 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: we had in ports, for example, once Web three point 427 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: I was sort of powered, and you have this smart contract, 428 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: you can literally build in every single point of efficiency, 429 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: like you know, the ships stay here for this amount 430 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: of days because the port is cloud drops this off here. 431 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: You know that there's just or even on a trading desk, right, 432 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: you have back office mental office, like the twenty five 433 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: functions to settle wound trade. All of that could be 434 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: done with smart contracts. So there are these big you know, 435 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: um uh you know use cases for for Web three 436 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: point on. The stocks that won't make that up, And 437 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: they happen to be the same stocks that are, you know, 438 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: fighting to build the metaverse. So I think they get 439 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: the benefit on the Web three outside. And you you 440 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: mentioned cryptocurrencies, and I wanted to actually ask you what 441 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: what's been behind your bullish call. I think you like 442 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: both bitcoin and ether. I'm not sure what else you 443 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: like in the cryptocurrency space, but what are some of 444 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: the factors behind your call there? Yeah, again, going going 445 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: back to UM, you know, the future of web three, oh, 446 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: and the central finance. You know, all of that will 447 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: be essentially powered by by a blockchain and cryptocurrency and 448 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: you know ethere UM and UM they're going to be 449 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: sort of the building blocks for for that for for 450 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: the next iteration of what we know to we will 451 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: know to be the Internet. UM. And then I think, 452 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, I just I really like the use case, right, 453 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: I think that UM, you have El Salvador adopting it, 454 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: you have UM, you have a lot of these like 455 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: major cities trying to launch digital assets. There's this great 456 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: desire to try to figure out how to make this work. UM. 457 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: And I'm bullish on it because you know, institutions have 458 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: jumped into it, they're buying it up. PTF products have 459 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: been approved. You know, there are trust products out there, 460 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: like gray Scale, bit wise, like through the billions, and 461 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: all of that is you know, essentially through the purchasing 462 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: of bitcoin and some of the other cryptocurrencies out there. 463 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: So I'm just very bullish on the space in terms 464 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: of investment, opportunity, what it's going to do for the future. 465 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: I think people like exchanging um, you know, cryptocurrency for 466 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: goods and services to It's just it's so new for us, 467 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: and we don't really do a day to day but 468 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, there is this huge, um, huge contingent of 469 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: people that actually you know, live their lives that way. Um, 470 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: and I think it's going to spill over and become 471 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: more mainstream. Do you think do you worry at all 472 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: about the potential risk that a major government the US, Europe, China, uh, 473 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: would at some point try to, I guess stand in 474 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: the way of the progress that we've seen with cryptocurrency, 475 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: either with their own digital currency or just some sort 476 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: of stringent regulation. Yeah. I mean I think I think 477 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: like China is really likely to do They've already done it, right. 478 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: But um, in terms of the US, actually I took 479 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: a lot of um, it took a lot of uh, 480 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, sort of positive you in um Jenny Yellin's 481 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: greatest remarks because she was someone who was arguably really 482 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: against this right and and you know, saying that it's 483 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: just going to sort of like destroy the whole the 484 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: whole system and whatnot, and just hearing her come around, 485 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: not that she was you know, blessing it. I mean 486 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: she certainly wasn't, but coming around to saying that, like 487 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: she could see potentially the future use of this, and 488 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: then you know, seeing what came out of the White 489 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: House in terms of like let's let's think about thinking 490 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: about it, and you know, the approval of some of 491 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: these products and funds coming out just makes me think that, 492 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, regulators, yes, are looking to regulate this, but 493 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: they're not looking to necessarily shut it down. And I 494 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: think in some cases it's it's going to be it's 495 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: almost like SPACs in a weird way, like I think 496 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: SPAC regulation. A lot of people are saying like, oh 497 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, you guys freaking out because of you know, 498 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: SPAC regulation of the SPACT. I actually think that that 499 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: will be a good thing, right because people will now 500 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: be confident in the financials that they're viewing and you know, 501 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: the deal flows that they're seeing and you know, kind 502 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: of like making sure that um, they're not you know, 503 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: at a at a disadvantage to the founders of the 504 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: blank check Company and whatnot. So sometimes regulation and need 505 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: spaces can can be good and supportive, and speaking of SPACs, 506 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: the metaverse, crypto, all of these crazy things. I think, Romaine, 507 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that Mike always tells us is 508 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: our listeners are usually tuning in so that they can 509 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: hear some of the craziest things that we saw in 510 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: markets this weekend. I know Sylvia and I we're chatting 511 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: before the podcast, and she said, there's an abundance, there's 512 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: an overabundance of crazy things that have been happening in 513 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: the market. So, Romaine, I hope you came prepared with 514 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: something that you saw that really stuck out to you 515 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: this week. Well, I mean, I honestly it's probably gonna 516 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: sound a little bit boring, but honestly, the move higher 517 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: that we continue to see uh in treasury yields and 518 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: not just treasury yields really around the world here, and 519 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: I think that when you talk about what's the narrative 520 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: going forward for risk assets here, I mean a lot 521 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: of it, of course, is tied to the Fed and 522 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: the Central banks and tied to where benchmark yields go. 523 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: And when you see these types of moves and how 524 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: severe they are and how swift they are. Uh, it 525 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: certainly gives you pause because it makes you wonder what 526 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: are people pricing in. Are they pricing in a stronger 527 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: economy or are they pricing in a weaker economy. You 528 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: can look at it from both sides of the coin, 529 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: and I've talked with traders who are on both sides, 530 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: on either side of that trade. Uh So it's just 531 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: kind of interesting to see how people interpret I guess 532 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: the exact same move right, And Sylvie, I'm wondering actually 533 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: how you how you would interpret that what's been going 534 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: on in the churches market. Yeah, I mean, you know, 535 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: I would echo that sentiment. I'm just sort of surprised 536 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: by the daily move again, going back to you know, 537 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: my common fun inflation and phily chain woes and pricing 538 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: and things like that. I think that we're probably you know, 539 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: at at a top with this, and you know, I 540 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: would expect um, I would expect the tenure, for example, 541 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: to to you know, come down by the end of 542 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: the year UM and and sort of stabilize UM. And 543 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: you know, I think like we saw it preopen today 544 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: right when we when when you see this like this 545 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: global bid for for sort of fond pushing equities up 546 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: and and you know, looking at a green pre market 547 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: and then you know, the whole thing turns around and 548 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: a couple of things it starts moving. It's I think 549 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: it's just all part of the same, you know, fear 550 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: of inflation, fear of FED rate hikes, and people just 551 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: sort of like not knowing what to do with all 552 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: of it. So I think the volatility sort of persist, 553 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: but it's going to it's it's yeah, it's surprising, agreed 554 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: on that, but I think it's going to settle out. 555 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: And what's something crazy you saw in markets? We I mean, honestly, 556 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: it's it's like the I don't even know how much 557 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: it's down now, but the hundred dollar plus UM crash 558 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: of Netflix, right, I mean, I guess we don't. You know, 559 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: that was my craziest thing too. I guess we're done 560 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: with bridget In, right. Um No, I mean, look, I 561 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: think it bodes well for Bothes, well for the reopen trade. Right, 562 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: We're not watching TV anymore. We're gonna get out in 563 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: the world and maybe reduce some of the subscription services 564 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: and streaming and things like that. Um. But you know, 565 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: I think that Netflix is very much a viable company 566 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: that will be you know, that will do interesting things 567 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: in the future. I think they'll have great content. People 568 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: will sign up for it again. You know, once you 569 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: get cold again, you're gonna start watching and and maybe 570 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: like resubscribing and just paying a fee of share and 571 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: whatever it is. But um, you know, I'm not buying 572 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: it um here. But I am just surprised at how 573 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: absolutely crushed that dot overnight. Yeah. That that that also 574 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: was my craziest thing. And how could it not be 575 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: at the gap between what while she was expecting in 576 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: terms of new subscribers and Netflix actually losing two hundred 577 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: thousand customers for the first time I think it was 578 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: in a decade, was just its astounding. Yeah. And I 579 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: mean the thing too, I thought was more iNeST I mean, 580 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: it's good that you bring up sort of the gap 581 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: between what uh they guided for and what they actually 582 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: delivered here. But then you go forward and the tone 583 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: that you heard out of read to Hastings and some 584 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: of the other executives really didn't give you a lot 585 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: of hope that this was going to turn around. But 586 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: this we're still talking about a company that is still 587 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: I think the number of subscribers that it has is 588 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: still well above where it was pre pandemic, so it 589 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: hasn't really lost all of that boom just yet. And 590 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, once they come up with the next uh 591 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 1: you know, bergertain or money heist or whatever, the next 592 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: big show is going to be, I guess people will 593 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: flock back into it. So, Sylvia, since you stole my 594 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: craziest thing, I suppose I have to actually revert back 595 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: to cryptocurrencies, which I very frequently do because there's so 596 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: much crazy stuff happening in that space. But I've actually 597 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: been getting a lot of notes about bitcoin recently that 598 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: I've been calling Bitcoin's recent moves boring, which is like, 599 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: who who would have thought? It's been stuck in sort 600 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: of this very narrow trading range and really hasn't been 601 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: able to break out so far this year, really, and 602 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: so people of started calling the moves in bitcoin boring 603 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: or somebody an analystized book with I said it's been 604 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: as dull as watching grass growth. So that maybe actually 605 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: is you know, the non event in crypto is the 606 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: craziest thing this week as well. Yeah, I would agree, 607 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: and and you know, maybe for me that's another plus 608 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: sign in terms of this is now an investable asset, right, 609 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: because it's become a little more boring and you don't 610 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: see those percent moved in it in a day or 611 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: a week anymore. Um, I think the bitcoin is behaving, 612 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency is behaving like the NASDAC one hundred. I think 613 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: if you take some of the the higher beta stocks 614 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: out there, it would be you know, a perfect hedge 615 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: to it. And I'm not, you know, super surprised by that. 616 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: I think that at some point it's going to start 617 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: just marching upwards and separating from the market a little bit. 618 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: But for now, it looks like investors are you know, 619 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: looking at bitcoin as as a as an equity type 620 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: of play. And also, don't forget we all just paid taxes, right, 621 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: and I think this is the first time where people 622 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: like I mean, hopefully everybody has paid their taxes on 623 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: their cypo over the years, but I don't know that 624 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: that's been the case from what I've heard. You know, 625 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: this was the first year where a lot of people 626 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: got some some some pretty hepthy bills. And we're crypto trading, 627 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: so you know, I think part of that that money 628 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: that will come back into the market, cryptos is is 629 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: taking some time off for for a couple of case 630 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: post April A teams. Yeah, it'll be really interesting to watch. 631 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: I'd heard that reason is one of the reasons that 632 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: I've been selling off the last couple of weeks. Um, 633 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: but I think that does it for us. I want 634 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: to thank both of you for joining us remain I'm 635 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: really sort of hoping Mike gets stuck in California. Maybe 636 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: you can join us again next week. He knows we're 637 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: we love Mike. He's my favorite death exactly. And Sylvia, 638 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us as well. It's been 639 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: great to have you. Yeah, thank you so much for 640 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: having me. Um, hope you hope you're both doing well 641 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: all right? Thanksful Dotta, Thanks Sylvia, what goes up. We'll 642 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: be back next week. Until then, you can find us 643 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever you 644 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Would love it if you took the 645 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: time to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts 646 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: so more listeners can find us. And you can find 647 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 1: us on Twitter follow me at Veldonna Hirick. Romaine Bostick 648 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: is at Romaine Bostick, and you can also follow Bloomberg 649 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: Podcasts at at Podcasts, and thank you to Charlie Pellett 650 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Radio. What Goes Up is produced by Stacy Wong. 651 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: The head of Bloomberg Podcasts is Francesco Levie. Thanks for 652 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: listening and we'll see you next time.