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Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem,

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Speaker 1: the show where we talk to entrepreneurs and engineers about

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Speaker 1: the future they're going to build once they solve a

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Speaker 1: few problems. My guest today is Keenan Wirobek. He's the

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Speaker 1: co founder of the drone delivery company zip Line, and

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Speaker 1: he has a message for the world. The drones are coming.

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Speaker 1: There's going to be more planes and flying cars flying

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Speaker 1: the airspace in twenty years by a factor of one

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Speaker 1: hundred than there are aircraft flying in the air today,

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Speaker 1: flying taxis, aerial pizza delivery. It could all be coming.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Keenan's company, zip Line is already doing hundreds

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Speaker 1: of drone deliveries a day every day in Rwanda and Ghana.

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Speaker 1: But the company has come up against a really interesting,

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Speaker 1: kind of surprising problem as it tries to expand the US.

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Speaker 1: It's not really a technological problem. It's more a problem

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Speaker 1: about the way America thinks about airspace, about the way

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Speaker 1: we regulate the sky itself, and this problem it goes

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Speaker 1: back to the early days of flight, but it also

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Speaker 1: has a huge impact on the present right now. Keenan's

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Speaker 1: a robotics engineer by training, and by the time he

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Speaker 1: co founded zip Line back in twenty fourteen, he'd already

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Speaker 1: worked on a few successful projects. So he was at

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Speaker 1: this moment when he could really think hard about what

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Speaker 1: his next big thing should be. And he told me

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Speaker 1: he went around looking for a problem to solve, kept

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Speaker 1: coming up with ideas, but when he went and asked

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Speaker 1: experts in the real world, is this a problem, they'd

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Speaker 1: be like, actually, no, that is not really a problem

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Speaker 1: for us. Finally, his wife pointed him in a new direction.

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Speaker 1: My wife's an epidemiologist, and she was telling me to

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Speaker 1: see these stories about health campaigns, you know, vaccine campaigns,

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Speaker 1: they just get stuck on logistics, and so of course

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Speaker 1: the wheels are turning. It's like, okay, maybe drones and

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Speaker 1: that actually that that seems like maybe there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a real problem to solve here that people are going

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Speaker 1: to really care about. Um. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I will learn you I'm a very skeptical person, so

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Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, I'm gonna dig into this, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: go learn about this, and I'm just sure there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a thousand reasons why you know, they're never gonna work.

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Speaker 1: We can't ever solve this problem. Uh, And so we

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Speaker 1: spend a bunch of time and intential America, where my

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Speaker 1: wife is from. In Africa, we visited this one medical

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Speaker 1: supply warehouse in Tanzania, and outside the warehouse as far

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Speaker 1: as you could see, you know, football fields of palette stacked,

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Speaker 1: you know, two stories high in places. We're just outside

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Speaker 1: this warehouse. We're like, what's why do you have all

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Speaker 1: these medical supplies you know, vaccines, pharmaceuticals, other things. Why

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Speaker 1: are they outside? And you know, one of the people

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Speaker 1: in the delegation sort of quietly because they were kind

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Speaker 1: of embarrassed about it, they're like, yeah, that's all expired medicine.

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Speaker 1: That was one of those like moments where it clicked

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Speaker 1: of like, Okay, supply is actually not the big problem.

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Speaker 1: There's actually something much more practical around around how to run,

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Speaker 1: you know, how to get this supply from you know,

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Speaker 1: point a these warehouses to these doctors. That was one

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Speaker 1: of the experiences that kind of just like the bit

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Speaker 1: flipped in my head from like this is probably not

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Speaker 1: a problem we can solve to like, holy shit, we

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Speaker 1: have to solve this problem. And it just became really

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Speaker 1: clear you could leap frog over all these factors by

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Speaker 1: doing this with drones in an on demand way. So

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Speaker 1: this is the rare instance where a robot can solve

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Speaker 1: a big important problem in the world that the people

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Speaker 1: dealing with the problem actually agree is a big important

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Speaker 1: problem exactly. And I'd say that that people agreeing it's

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Speaker 1: important problem was another big part of my concern. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like in Silicon Valley, we like to use the word

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Speaker 1: disruption as a good word. Right, you walk into a

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Speaker 1: health system, a national health system of a country and say,

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Speaker 1: let's disrupt this, Like nobody is exciting. Yeah, everybody's like,

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Speaker 1: here's the door. We're busy. You're like, go' disrupt somebody else,

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Speaker 1: Like we have a job to do. I was very

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Speaker 1: worried that there just wasn't going to be an appetite

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Speaker 1: for change in these health systems. But really the opposite happened,

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Speaker 1: where we got started getting to know these health systems

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Speaker 1: and the ministers of health in these countries. And I

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Speaker 1: still remember the first interaction with the Minister of health

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Speaker 1: in Rwanda. She said, Okay, you've got two weeks. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got all the data, like you've been modeling how

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Speaker 1: a drone system, like this could work in a health system.

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Speaker 1: Put together the case, what's the health impact, what's the

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Speaker 1: economic impact, and then we'll go from there, and that

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Speaker 1: was just like amazing. The rest is of course history.

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Speaker 1: The case was really compelling on the health side and

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Speaker 1: the economic side, and they became our first customer. And specifically,

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Speaker 1: what is the ask, what is the job? The job

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Speaker 1: from Rwanda is deliver blood on demand. The obvious answer

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Speaker 1: in the early days like, okay, cool, which drone are

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Speaker 1: we going to buy? So went out to all the

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Speaker 1: drone companies they could make a drone that could do

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Speaker 1: what we wanted. And this was an incredibly frustrating journey

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Speaker 1: because the best quote I got for a drone was

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Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars per drone with a two hundred

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Speaker 1: flight warranty if I didn't fly it in the rain.

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Speaker 1: And it was like and obviously the economics of that

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Speaker 1: are just like don't work at all. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the customers want delivery all the time when it's waning

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Speaker 1: or this was all really clear and it just became

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Speaker 1: this is one of those wake up call moments of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you gotta do this yourself. Um, and getting this first

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Speaker 1: product service off the ground for this customer is going

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Speaker 1: to be a much bigger lift than than you thought.

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Speaker 1: So you realize you're going to have to build your

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Speaker 1: own drones from scratch. And one of the things that's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me about this part of the story is

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Speaker 1: is it right you wind up basically using iPhone parts.

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Speaker 1: So the sensors, many of the sensors that make the

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Speaker 1: drone fly, Um, you know, these are the same sensors

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Speaker 1: that are in your phone. Uh, And that the tech

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Speaker 1: like whether or not you know what orientation your phone

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Speaker 1: is started for your video is like, so your phone

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Speaker 1: knows the videos should be sideways, are playing those which

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Speaker 1: way is up? And how to fly without you know,

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Speaker 1: falling out of the sky. And it's truly the same

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Speaker 1: basically the same sensors. Oh yeah, made by the same companies.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, what if there are others? Can you just

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Speaker 1: like rattle off like, oh, sure, what sensors that are

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Speaker 1: in my iPhone more or less are in your drones? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So GPS, Uh, the cell modems that are in your

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Speaker 1: we have in our drones. Even the basically the processors

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Speaker 1: that are in your phone, we use very similar technology

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Speaker 1: processing cheap more or less similar exactly. That they're so

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Speaker 1: power efficient and they're so capable. It's amazing to me.

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Speaker 1: I guess in part because you know, I've gotten used

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Speaker 1: to thinking about giant businesses like I don't know, Uber

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Speaker 1: or Instagram that like, okay, I guess that those you

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Speaker 1: couldn't have without the iPhone, right, that is intuitive to me.

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Speaker 1: But the idea that, like, you know, a company sending

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Speaker 1: drones across sub Saharan Africa to deliver blood, that that

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Speaker 1: is also built on the iPhone is wild. Like you

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Speaker 1: needed the cell phone the smartphone revolution. You needed the

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Speaker 1: iPhone to have come along and made all these components

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Speaker 1: super cheap, super reliable, super smart exactly. So I want

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Speaker 1: to try. I want to just talk through in some detail,

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Speaker 1: how like one on what do you call it delivery?

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Speaker 1: I guess how one delivery works. So some doctor or

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Speaker 1: nurse needs something in their hospital. What happens? Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: a doctor or nurse needs something, they place their order

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Speaker 1: right And by the way, we're really flexible there. They

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Speaker 1: can use an app, they can use their phone, they

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Speaker 1: can use WhatsApp, they can pick up the phone and

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Speaker 1: call us, whatever's easy for them. So our team they're

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get the unit of blood out of the

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Speaker 1: freezer or fridge. They're gonna get the unit off the shelf,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna pack it up, put it into one of

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Speaker 1: the drones. The drone gets put into a launcher. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pause you there because we have a video

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Speaker 1: and I know we're like watching videos on a podcast

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Speaker 1: is a questionable move, but let's try it, because like

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Speaker 1: I do want to see it. Right, it's a it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cool. So you ready, I'm gonna you push play too, Okay, ready,

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Speaker 1: go all right? Okay, So, so somebody is loading it

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Speaker 1: looks like a plane, a plane about the size of

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Speaker 1: a person, onto some kind of a launcher right onto

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Speaker 1: like a ramp exactly. Well, there's propellers. The propellers are spinning,

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Speaker 1: I like your narration. And then there's a guy. What's

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Speaker 1: the guy there doing? Oh, it just launched. He just

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Speaker 1: launched it. Yeah, wingspans about ten feet so picture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like a big RC plane. Okay, a big remote

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Speaker 1: control plane. And by the way, I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: in fact remote controlled, right, Like what does it is?

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Speaker 1: It actually just flying on its own? Yeah, so it

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Speaker 1: is flying it's flying automatically all the way out to

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Speaker 1: the delivery site. Does that mean there are people whose

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Speaker 1: job is to sit somewhere at the warehouse fan in

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Speaker 1: office and like look at what a camera from to

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Speaker 1: basically do air traffic control, to look at what all

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Speaker 1: the drones are doing and make sure that exactly So

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Speaker 1: we call our drones zips, and we call those people

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Speaker 1: ZIP controllers. Their job is very similar to air traffic control.

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Speaker 1: And do they generally have to do anything or do

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Speaker 1: the drones take care of themselves? The drones take care

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Speaker 1: of themselves. Okay, so here, let's keep watching. So now

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Speaker 1: now that drone is going to make the drop. First

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Speaker 1: of all, you have to picture a package. So picture

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Speaker 1: a cake box, right size package with a paper parachute

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Speaker 1: on it that's in the belly of this drone. And

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Speaker 1: so the drone flies over the delivery site and when

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Speaker 1: it drops it, that paper parachute will inflate and the

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Speaker 1: package drifts to the ground a little bit like a cartoon,

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Speaker 1: is how I That's how I'm watching it right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it worked, It worked. It looks kind of fast, it's

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Speaker 1: coming down kind of fast. Yeah, yeah, it's it does

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Speaker 1: come down fast. It's a This is the fun of

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Speaker 1: the engineering challenge here. If you come down really slowly,

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Speaker 1: that accuracy that basically goes gets worse because the wind

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Speaker 1: can blow it to the side. More basic, exactly exactly

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Speaker 1: if it hit you on the head, it looks like

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Speaker 1: it would hurt. I have been a test subject of

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Speaker 1: this intentionally to make sure someone who has to do

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Speaker 1: it under it. So it hit you on the head.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're telling me? You know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: I live to tell the tale. So okay, I'm more seriously,

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Speaker 1: has anybody ever gotten hurt by one of your drones? No,

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Speaker 1: No one's gotten hurt by one of our drones. But

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of engineering work that goes into really

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Speaker 1: minimizing the chances that you can get hurt by a drone. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell me about the end of the flight. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: land in the way one would think of a little

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Speaker 1: plane landing. It doesn't land it. Yeah, So there's like

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Speaker 1: two arms sticking into the air. There's two poles sticking

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Speaker 1: into the air, and those poles are on motors. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so they move up and down, but basically you know

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Speaker 1: they're on motors. Between those two poles. Is a string, okay,

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Speaker 1: really small string okay. And basically what's happening is our

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Speaker 1: drone flies between these two poles and at the last second,

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Speaker 1: look the last fraction of a second. Yeah, if everything

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Speaker 1: looks good, those poles, the motors on those poles will

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Speaker 1: snap those polls up, so the line flings into the

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Speaker 1: tailhook of the plane, capturing the plane and that's how

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Speaker 1: it lands. That is amazing in a minute, the truly

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Speaker 1: surprising reason that it's harder to build a drone business

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Speaker 1: in the United States than in Rwanda. Now, let's get

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Speaker 1: back to what's your problem. Zipline expanded from Rwanda to

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Speaker 1: Ghana a few years ago and now delivers lots of

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Speaker 1: medical supplies across both countries. It's like a normal routine

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Speaker 1: thing there, hundreds of flights a day every day. But

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Speaker 1: the company is just starting to expand into the United States.

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Speaker 1: So far, ziplanes work in this country is limited to

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Speaker 1: a few pilot projects. They're delivering medical supplies for a

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Speaker 1: hospital system in North Carolina. They're also flying stuff like

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Speaker 1: bandages and over the counter medicine to Walmart customers in

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Speaker 1: rural Arkansas. And in their work in the United States,

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Speaker 1: Zipline is facing one particularly hard problem. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the challenge comes down to the regulatory environment. In the US,

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Speaker 1: our airspace is very old fashioned. We have a philosophy

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Speaker 1: here in the US and the airspace where we kind

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Speaker 1: of grandfather everything in so not absolutely everything, but mostly everything.

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Speaker 1: A lot of things you could do in the forties

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Speaker 1: you can still do in the airspace today, and that

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Speaker 1: makes things very complicated. Most other countries, basically the way

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Speaker 1: they talk about it is, say we have modernized our airspace.

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Speaker 1: We've required things like transponders so all planes can tell

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Speaker 1: by radio where all the other planes are. We don't

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Speaker 1: require that here in So you're telling me there's some

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Speaker 1: device that you can put in a plane that allows

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Speaker 1: all other planes to know that plane is there, and

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Speaker 1: in the US you don't have to have that in

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Speaker 1: your plane. That is correct and as crazy as it sounds.

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Speaker 1: And so in terms of like regulating airspace, like Ghana

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Speaker 1: and Rwanda are doing sort of sensible modern things that

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Speaker 1: the US is not doing. That's exactly right, and that

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Speaker 1: makes their airspace essentially much simpler to integrate drones into

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Speaker 1: versus here in the US. Tell me what other problems

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Speaker 1: are you trying to solve what's a technical one that's

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Speaker 1: interesting when we're working on that that's extraordinarily hard, which is,

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Speaker 1: this comes down to operating in airspaces like the United States,

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Speaker 1: where you have planes flying around that don't have you know,

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Speaker 1: a radio transponder that tells you where they are, and

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Speaker 1: so you have to have sensing on the drone that

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Speaker 1: directly senses where these other aircraft are hard to avoid. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that's very hard to do for

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Speaker 1: a bunch of reasons. We tried radar and radar that

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Speaker 1: can see in all directions. It just you literally need

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Speaker 1: hundreds of pounds of radar equipment to see far enough

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Speaker 1: in all directions, which of course there drones don't weigh

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Speaker 1: hundreds of pounds to begin with. And camera is the

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Speaker 1: same problem. So many cameras with so many lenses and

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Speaker 1: so many you know, pixels if you will see that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that speck in the air, and of course

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Speaker 1: cameras they just don't work when it's cloudy, which is

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Speaker 1: you know, a big deal. So basically you've had to

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Speaker 1: do a sensor technology development from the ground up for this,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's something that's been really challenging and really

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Speaker 1: really exciting because if we can solve this problem, it'll

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Speaker 1: enable scaled operations for drones, you know, around the world.

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Speaker 1: So how do you solve it? Are you getting closer?

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Speaker 1: We're getting a lot closer. And this is I have

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Speaker 1: to tease here because the actual thing I can't talk

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Speaker 1: about quite. It's a secret because of like intellectual property,

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Speaker 1: because you're going to try and plent it, literally because

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Speaker 1: of intellectual property, because we're gonna because we're trying to

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Speaker 1: patent it. So let me ask a question. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't solved this problem yet, how are you able to

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Speaker 1: fly in the US? Yeah? So in the US, and

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Speaker 1: this is true of all drone operators in the US.

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Speaker 1: Even even everybody who flies drones in the US is

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Speaker 1: doing exactly this thing I'm gonna describe, which is not sophisticated.

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Speaker 1: There are people along those routes looking at the sky. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So wherever your drones flood, you have people who are

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Speaker 1: your employees. They are getting paid by the hour to

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Speaker 1: look at the sky and what text or something if

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Speaker 1: they push a button, if they see exactly they have

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Speaker 1: a special app that they can communicate with our controller.

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Speaker 1: If they see something and then there's a whole protocol

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Speaker 1: around what do And just to be clear, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to do this in Rwanda or in Ghana because

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Speaker 1: all of the planes flying there have transponders, so the

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Speaker 1: drones automatically know when there's another plane. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we feed our data there into basically their literal air

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Speaker 1: traffic control, so they have a view of their whole airspace,

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Speaker 1: including all the aircraft with people and all of our drives.

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Speaker 1: So wild to me that we don't have that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm super naive, I guess obviously I am super naive

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Speaker 1: to be surprised by that. Like is there any broader

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Speaker 1: lesson from that, Like, is there anything I can conclude

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Speaker 1: about the way the United States works, the way regulation

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Speaker 1: works here? I don't know. I mean it is some

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Speaker 1: of it is a philosophical thing, right like here we

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Speaker 1: sort of we sort of romanticize and cherish like sort

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Speaker 1: of the old ways of flying, and so we cowboys

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Speaker 1: cowboys in the sky and their little cessna or whatever exactly.

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Speaker 1: They are pilots I've met who have told me to

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Speaker 1: my face, I'm never going to put a transponder because

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Speaker 1: that means people know where I am, and some of

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Speaker 1: it is also just uh, you know, I think this

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Speaker 1: is one of the things I think a lot about

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Speaker 1: with this country, right, where As we kind of mature,

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Speaker 1: if you will, as a country, right, A lot of

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Speaker 1: these countries like Rwanda and Ghana, these are literally young countries.

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Speaker 1: Their whole mindset is around growth and becoming, you know,

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Speaker 1: and becoming the economic power they want to be in

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Speaker 1: the future and things like that, and they're very willing

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Speaker 1: to sort of make decisions that are very future focused.

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Speaker 1: And I think more and more I see, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a as a society right at the balance between

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Speaker 1: clinging to the past and and focusing on the future

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Speaker 1: and how do you do both in the right way?

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Speaker 1: So we so we actually you know, stay who we

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Speaker 1: want to be and become who we need to be.

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Speaker 1: And that's a that's a tricky thing to do. And

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Speaker 1: I see when I sit in a room of the

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Speaker 1: fa leadership and they're literally debating this kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: like in these kind of terms, the FAA has more

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Speaker 1: old as regulations that makes it harder for you to

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Speaker 1: do what you do. You're working closely with the FAA,

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Speaker 1: and like like where does that sort of land like,

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Speaker 1: is there some I know there's no endpoint, but if

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Speaker 1: there's some big like step that's going to happen where

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Speaker 1: they're going to say, Okay, you can delivered hospitals all

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Speaker 1: over the country and like what problems do you have

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Speaker 1: to solve for that to happen. Yeah, So the journey

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Speaker 1: with the FA, Yeah, it's incremental rights. It's all about

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Speaker 1: taking the right next step that leads you to the

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Speaker 1: next step that leads you to the next step, both

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Speaker 1: for them to get comfortable, for them to learn, for

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Speaker 1: us to get to know each other. Literally, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of trust that has to be built between a

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Speaker 1: company like Zipline doing something very new and a regulator

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Speaker 1: like the FA who you know, to their credit, right,

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Speaker 1: the advent of autonomy in the airspace is like the

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Speaker 1: biggest change to the airspace literally since flight began. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: and I mean that in every sense of the word. Right.

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Speaker 1: There's going to be more planes and flying cars flying

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Speaker 1: in the airspace in twenty years by a factor of

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Speaker 1: one hundred than there are aircraft flying the air to

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Speaker 1: It's that big of a change. And you know, to

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Speaker 1: their credit, like they can't you know, they can't be

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Speaker 1: reckless here, this is going to be hard to do,

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Speaker 1: and do it safely in a minute, The Lightning Round,

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Speaker 1: including Keenan's tips for solving hard problems and the biggest

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Speaker 1: misconception most people have about drones. Okay, let's get back

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Speaker 1: to the show. We're gonna close with the Lightning Round.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready? I'm ready. What is one piece of

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Speaker 1: advice you'd give to somebody who is trying to solve

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Speaker 1: a hard problem. If it's a hard business or customer problem,

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Speaker 1: start with real human customers before you do anything else.

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Speaker 1: If it's a technology problem, focus on the hardest part

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Speaker 1: of the technology problem, ignore all the rest, and then

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Speaker 1: go on to the next hardest and then go on

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Speaker 1: the next hardest. What's your favorite app on your phone?

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Speaker 1: My favorite app on my phone. I'm sure I have

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Speaker 1: such a positive relationship with my phone. Actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: recently I I got Nebula. I really like Nebula. I

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Speaker 1: don't know Nebula. What is it? It's basically a bunch

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Speaker 1: of the more wonkier YouTubers got together and made an

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Speaker 1: ad free YouTube for to cheat sidestuff to YouTube algorithm,

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Speaker 1: and they just make some great content. Oh great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good tip. What's the biggest misconception people have

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Speaker 1: about drones? Biggest misconception people have about drones. I have

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Speaker 1: a good friend who's now worked at SpaceX and zip Line,

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Speaker 1: and he likes to joke that rockets are easier than

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Speaker 1: people think, and drones are harder than people think. Good.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people they look at the little you know,

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Speaker 1: they look at a drone that you play with as

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Speaker 1: a hobby, and they're like, what's the big deal. Let's

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Speaker 1: put a package on the bottom and deliver stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I was a little guilty of that

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Speaker 1: too when I started zip Line two, two or three

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Speaker 1: more favorite trait and a co worker, Oh easy, someone

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Speaker 1: who has a lot of fun when ship gets hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's actually this actually the main thing I interview for.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of funny because they're so much fun because

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Speaker 1: startups so just like it's one hard thing to the next, right,

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Speaker 1: and and people who really are going to enjoy that,

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Speaker 1: And are you're gonna have fun with through that? You know?

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Speaker 1: People who love the problem? Yeah, exactly. Um, what would

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Speaker 1: you do if you couldn't do what you do? Oh goodness,

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Speaker 1: I've looked. Yeah, this this is this is interesting if

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Speaker 1: I carbon sequestration, how will you know when it's time

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Speaker 1: to retire that I have? I have no idea, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think the you know, zip Line today is the

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Speaker 1: biggest company I've ever worked at by a lot. How

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Speaker 1: big is it? Going on? Seven hundred folks? Yeah, um

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Speaker 1: and um yeah. You know, if you had asked me

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Speaker 1: eight years ago, if I'd still be here when were

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Speaker 1: seven hundred people, I would have been like, Nope, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like me. So it's a painful growth for sure.

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Speaker 1: I work hard at it, and I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of awesome people around me who don't hesitate to give

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Speaker 1: me feedback, which is, you know, the only way to grow, right. So,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, like it's hard to imagine

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Speaker 1: that I can keep up the zip Line forever. Keenan

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Speaker 1: Wyrobek is the founder of Ziplan. On the next few

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Speaker 1: episodes of What's Your Problem, I'll be talking to people

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Speaker 1: about artificial intelligence. What problems do we have to solve

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Speaker 1: to get to self driving cars and to chatpots that

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Speaker 1: we can actually chat with chatbot's good enough to teach

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Speaker 1: us a new language. Today's show was produced by Edith Russelo.

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Speaker 1: It was edited by Kate Parkinson Morgan and Robert Smith,

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Speaker 1: and it was engineered by Amanda kay Wong. Theme music

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Speaker 1: by Luis Garra. Our development team is Lee, Tom Mulad

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Speaker 1: and Justine Lang. A huge team of people makes What's

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Speaker 1: Your Problem possible. That team includes, but is not limited to,

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Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, Mia Lobell, Heather Fame, John Schnars, Kerrey Brodie,

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Speaker 1: Carli Mcglehory, Christina Sullivan, Jason Gambrell, Brand Hayes, Eric Sandler,

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Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Morgan Ratner, Nicolemrano, Mary Beth Smith, Royston Deserve,

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Speaker 1: Maya Kanig, Danielle Lakhan, Kazia Tan and David Clever. What's

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Speaker 1: Your Problem is a co production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia.

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Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcast listen on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or where I'm Jacob Goldstein and I'll be

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Speaker 1: back next week with another episode of What's Your Problem,