WEBVTT - Venture Capital Trends for Female Founders 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.800 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.960 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.200 Bloomberg Business Week at iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.640 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, a little bit earlier 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.080 in our program, we spoke to Bloomberg news is Hannah 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.360 Levitt and she talked about how Wall Street bonuses are 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.040 poised to plunge following a slowdown of deals. We're also 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.440 seeing a slowdown of deals when it comes to I 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.120 P O s and when it comes to other M 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.839 and A happening. We thought it would be great to 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.440 check in with Amy Noyakis, who's the co founder and 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.120 co c i O at the venture capital firm Anthemus. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.200 We've talked to her before about venture capital, of course, 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.360 and also about supporting women in venture capital. Amy, it's 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.000 good to have you with us. How are you. I'm good, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.839 I'm good. I'm tired. It's been a very crazy busy summer. 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.600 Well what do you mean by that? How crazy busy 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.119 in what sense? Well, you know, I think it's been 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.720 an interesting time for venture capital. Um. You know, we've 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:14.840 heard a lot about this sort of idea that might 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.399 be a silent crash happening in DC, or that we're 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.360 at the beginning of the end of VC as the 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.640 market to dry it up. But you know, I'm telling 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.080 you from my perspective, I'm not seeing it. Um. I mean, 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.160 the current market environment has really put capital location decisions 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:30.720 to the test, and I think people have made some 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.960 big mistakes in the last couple of years. But the 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.560 industry wide correction that we're seeing this year isn't a 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.200 surprise to any of us who have been doing this 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.880 for decades, nor is it affecting all companies are all 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.479 investors in the same way. I think it's just simply 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.080 a needed corrections. Right. For the last ten plush years, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.320 we've seen unprecedented amounts of capital shifting into venture capital, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.840 particularly in the tech sector, inspiring entrepreneurs and would be 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.520 founders to build new digital companies that are challenging the 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.240 old guard and most importantly, or makes a lot of sense. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.160 But the majority of these cases, the markets and the 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.920 employees and the consumers these companies have reached a ton 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.480 of benefits through this evolution. However, there are lots of 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.520 founders and investors alike who have attempted to build companies 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.919 that aren't solving real problems. They're not focusing on business fundamentals, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.399 and they're letting hubrists get the best of them. Right. So, 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.639 while the global funding has slowed, there are still plenty 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.520 of great companies growing, expanding and building, And there are 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.680 still plenty of companies out there, and so I'm kind 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.600 of feeling like, you know, the bigger issue is how 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.760 many of these people that have kind of jumped into 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.799 the game in the last sort of inning, so to speak, 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.840 are really throwing things off right, Like, VC is hard 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.200 and it's supposed to be. It's why the returns are 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.000 so high. There's huge upside for investors that are finding 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.239 and back in great companies. But the problem is, I 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.239 think over the last couple of years, it's looked too 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.200 easy and that's attracted a lot of folks frankly don't 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.079 belong in the game. And now that it's gotten a 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.080 little harder again, you've got to look a little harder 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.320 for the good ideas. You've got to be smarter about 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.360 the way you value these companies. It's the dumb money 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.560 that's disappeared, and it's taken a lot of promising companies 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.960 with it. And tell us give us some good ideas. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.800 Where are there still opportunities? Well, I listen on the 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.520 investor side, I think there's a ton of opportunity in 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.080 the early stage. Um, it's still very much a sweet spot. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.280 A lot of the market contraction that we've seen has 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.160 been in the later stage. I'm personally biased because we're 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.200 at antmestic fans of the of the early stage strategy. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.519 But I think that if you're a quality early stage 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.720 investor and you're in it for the long haul, you'll 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.240 navigate this correction incredibly well. Valuations are getting haircuts if 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.080 they deserve. Deal flow in competition for capital is sort 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.640 of flowing a bit, and investors at the early stage 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:40.520 I think are well positioned. You know, you've got to 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.520 focus on the fundamentals. You've got to stay from the 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.360 away from the fluff Hubrist. A great company is a 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.560 great company, and there's always space for great companies. Um. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.520 I'd say for the companies and the founders, they should 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.080 probably take the advice that they should have heated years ago. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.080 Not all capitals the same. Pay attention to who's backing 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.000 your company, and don't get swindled by a heavy valuation 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.040 that you know you can't back up. I mean, we've 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.360 seen so many examples of that. I don't want to 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.360 say they were, you know, swindled, but we've seen a 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:10.360 lot of down rounds, uh in the past few months. Amy, Yeah, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.760 and listen, that's that's not surprising, right. I Mean, the 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.880 role on the purpose of a good venture capital capital 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.919 investor hasn't changed. It is our job and should be 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.760 our jard to deploy capital responsibly and help grow portfolio companies. 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.240 That doesn't mean that there's a one size fits all 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:27.720 approach to how we do that. And I think the 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.599 biggest issue for me is that so many of these 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.680 players have jumped in eyes closed with little to no 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.160 experience and how to build and support a quality company 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.520 as it grows. And these are the folks that have 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.279 caused a lot of the pain in the market. Um. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.000 You know, I think some of the strategy is driven 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.560 by hubris, and I don't think it's appropriate to write 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.680 the entire sector off just because a large number of 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.320 folks decided to jump into the defense naked before checking 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.840 if there was water in the pool, right right, Hey, uh, 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.360 we just have a minute left with you, Amy, but 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.120 I want to get an update on the female Innovator's 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.800 Lab that you recently launched. And because when we talk 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.520 about venture capital, especially them in venture capital, we're talking 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.400 like single digit percentage of venture capital goes to Winden 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:09.240 each year. Yeah, it's still I'm you know, it's still 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.320 an area that we spent a lot of our time 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:12.839 on an anthemous and I think a big part of 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.480 that is because it was how we were founded. Right. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.920 You know, I'm a woman founder of a company, and 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.559 not only am I investor, but I'm somebody who started 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.840 a company from scratch and watched how hard it was 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.599 and difficult it was to raise capital to grow my company, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.680 and there weren't a lot of supporters around. Um So 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.480 when we looked across the entirety of the fintech sector, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.320 we wanted to make sure, um that we were playing 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.640 a very solid roll in in sort of putting our 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.560 money where our mouth is. And and so we've been 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.520 backing women founders in Europe in the US for a 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.719 couple of years now specifically and what we call the 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.840 earliest venture studio stage, money and ideas coming together at 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.600 the very beginning and helping these women build their company. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.000 And I think it's a really great opportunity not only 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.960 to see some fantastic businesses and help women, you know, 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.760 get a leg up and grow, and also you know, 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.679 as as we've sort of found it's making a huge difference, 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.720 you know, I mean, I know that people say all 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.120 the time that it's really hard to back women and 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.039 people of color and venture and there are never enough. 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:16.360 Reality is it's full right. We have Amy, we gotta 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.720 we gotta leave it there. Amy naukis co foundering co 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.560 c I O at Anthemus, joining us this afternoon on 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.279 the phone from New York City. You're listening to Bloomberg Radio. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.160 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.919 Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We got some 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.720 breaking news the US just now declaring monkey pox a 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.880 public health emergency that allows more funding to fight monkey pox, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.600 the Health and Human Services saying that more than six 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.000 hundred thousand geneos monkey pox doses have been delivered two 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.560 states thus far. We've got a perfect guest joining us 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.279 on this right now. Dr G. G. Granvall, Senior Scholar 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.599 at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security at the 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.880 Bloomberg School of Public Health, the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.240 Public Health. It is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg under 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.599 of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Gronwald, Good to 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.360 have you with us this afternoon, and really perfect timing 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.560 for you to join us, because, as I mentioned just 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.720 moments ago, the US has declared monkeypox a public health emergency. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.640 Apart from allowing more funding to fight this virus, what 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.600 does this actually do? Yeah, this will help the federal 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.280 government get more information from the states. So declaring it 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.200 a public health emergency, the states will have reporting requirements, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.520 so the CDC will have a better idea of just 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.200 how many cases there are, how many tests have been 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.480 delivered or have been taken, and how many of the 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.280 vaccines have been delivered, so it will make it a 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.480 lot easier to get a better picture nationwide of the 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.000 monkey pox epidemic. And what have we learned about monkey 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.360 pox so far in terms of how to protect ourselves 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.320 from getting it, what to do if you do get 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:54.920 monkey pox, because I feel like it took a lot 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.320 of people by surprisers. Absolutely, I think, at least speaking innecdotally, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.120 some COVID fatigue when it comes to sort of managing 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.240 health risks there. Yeah, I mean we're all tired of 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.120 infectious diseases, but um, but there are a lot of them, 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.440 and and unfortunately this is the latest one that we're 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.960 dealing with. UM. We've known about monkey pops being emerging 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.200 disease for some time. UM, how it when it appears 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.040 this is you know, this is a surprise. Um, but 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.120 you know it's not a surprise. Uh. So we know 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.040 that we could have been or should have been better 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.440 prepared for it, and we have to catch up, um 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.920 learning more about it. UM. So we know that it 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.040 has spread very differently than COVID, So you shouldn't be 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:42.040 as concerned about aerosol transmission, so you don't have to 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.120 worry about being in the same room as somebody, um 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.360 who has monkey pops, unless you're maybe delivering care to them, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.280 in which case you should take simplecautions. But um, for 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.320 most transmission is through close contact, and that's how most 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.280 of the transmission has occurred so far. Okay, let's shift 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.920 gears because we got a couple of minutes left, and 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:02.680 I want to get an update from you on how 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.679 we're thinking about COVID right now. Uh, Dr Gronvill. We're 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.360 going to be heading back to school. Wow, already in 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.960 the next few weeks. It's pretty remarkable to see. I know, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.120 time flies, It certainly does. Uh. How are you thinking 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.720 about this when when it comes to kids in school, 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.000 Because we have a tool for kids under five right 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.120 now that we didn't have just a few months ago. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.320 My son was able to get his first shot recently 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.760 of the Maderna vaccine, so I think that means that 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.480 he won't have to wear a mask when he's fully 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.320 vaccinated at school, which is pretty exciting. Yeah. I think 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.320 it's going to really depend on the population. UM. You know, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.040 some schools may decide to have masks for the first 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.840 week or so as UM children are mixing from different places, UM, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.480 and and after maybe one round of testing has occurred. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.760 I'm sure that there will be different policies that have 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.080 put into place in different places. But UM, but I 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.719 think you know, having taking advantage of the vaccine if 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.280 you can, it's really the best way to protect your 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.360 child from UM severe disease. And UM we may not 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.080 be able to escape and encounter with the virus, but um, 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.040 but you can do one big thing to lessen your 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.800 chances of any severe outcome, and that's getting vaccinated. UM. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.760 So when it comes to masks, UM, you know, those 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.240 are very controversial, as we know, but they do work 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.920 and so maybe in limited circumstances people can persuaded to 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.680 use them. And also, portable hair air filters are a 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.719 really good thing to have in classrooms. So you can 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.480 build them yourselves. There's mechanisms to there's ways to build them. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.880 They're called Corsie Rosenthall boxes. It's a d I y 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.200 approach that really is helpful. Or you can use federal 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.640 funds to buy them. Okay, really helpful stuff. Um, Hey, 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.480 we got thirty seconds left. Do we have to worry 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.400 about another search happening in the fall when things start 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.760 to get colder. UM, people have been looking for seasonality 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.080 for a COVID for some time, and it's just been 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.480 a sustained amount of transmission with new variants, so I 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.439 you know, it could be. I'm not gonna second guest Insprus, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.520 except to say that that we have pretty high transmission 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.640 as is and we don't need a search alright. G. G. Grandvall, Dr. G. G. Grandvall, 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.880 Senior Scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.880 at the Bloomberg School of Public Health, joining us on 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.640 the phone from Baltimore, of course, the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.280 School of Public Health that is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:23.120 founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. This is Bloomberg 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.839 Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.640 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Let's turn out to some of 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.000 the crypto news that Tim teas. We've got a great guess. 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.600 Olga Carey, if she's a crypto reporter for Bloomberg News. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.120 She joins us on the phone from Portland, Oregon. Olga, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.320 Let's start with micro strategy, because the big news there, 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:48.040 of course, is Michael Sailor stepping down as chief executive officer. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.200 He's going to remain with the company. Of course, it 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.600 was interesting the market reaction. You actually saw a surge 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.560 in micro Stargy yesterday. Uh. This news, of course was 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.640 coming on Tuesday. Olga, just walk us through on what 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.760 the thinking around this company is right now, because in 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:09.760 addition to its huge bitcoin buys, nominally it's a software maker. Absolutely, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:14.920 so it's interesting, it's a it's a large enterprise software company. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.120 And of course, in the last two years, Michael Saylor 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:23.600 has also created a parallel bitcoin strategy, and supposedly now 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:30.320 he's gonna become executive chairman and focus on strategy and uh, 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.120 focus more on on the company's bitcoin strategy, while the 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:39.160 incoming CEO will focus on the actual enterprise software business. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.679 And I think part of the reason the market like 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.880 the news was because in the Ernies call, the company 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.040 essentially hyped this idea that you know, we are a 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.160 hundred percent behind bitcoin. We will continue with the strategy, 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.360 even even though micro Strategy had an impairment charge of 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.720 almost a million dollars in the second quarter because of 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.680 the decline and the price of its bitcoin holdings. Alright, Olga, 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.319 I gotta get from micro Strategy we had so much 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.200 news to get to. Okay, so bear with me because 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.480 I'm gonna jump around a little bit. Uh. The news 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.800 that I saw this morning that really caught my eye 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.800 was what's happening with coin base today. We saw black 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.959 Rock teaming up with it, We saw platforms Well, look 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.680 what it did to a company's stock. I don't know. 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.240 I mean, Taylor made a good point on our samolcast earlier, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:32.840 which and I want to get your take on this, 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.120 Olga is it seems I think by some sort of 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.720 a legitimization right of this black Rock after all partnering 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.800 with coin base, how do you read into it? Absolutely? 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.240 You know, I talked with some institutional investors today who 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.400 took this as a sort of major step and institutional 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.360 adoption of crypto. And of course black Rock customers will 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.680 now use a coin base to be able to track 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.000 and manage their bitcoin holdings. It's a sort of at 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:06.839 this point a very limited partnership related to only bitcoin. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.720 But you know, a lot of people think that a 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.160 lot of the other firms on Wall Street that maybe 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.600 have been fearful of stepping into crypt crypto will take 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.480 this as a sign that, you know, maybe we should 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.120 venture and now And Olga, I mean, I guess it's 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.240 in terms of, you know, trying to justify the reaction 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.840 that we saw on coin based shares, which was I 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.080 think it was up as much as was this morning. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.280 It was crazy. I don't know if that was before 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.280 the market open. I have to check. I'm gonna go check. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.120 We'll check on the senor. You asked the question terminal. Okay, okay, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.200 back to the question, so, Olga, I mean, it is 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.400 interesting that black Rock didn't choose to sort of build 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.000 its own sort of platform for this. It went with 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:56.520 a crypto native company. Yeah. Absolutely, it's very interesting. And 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.240 you know, back to your point of the coin based stock, Ali, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.200 I think part of it has been that coin Basis 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.440 stock has been down so much. I mean, the company 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.360 went public um a little over a year ago and 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:17.000 pretty much the stock uh it increased a bit. Uh, well, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.960 it dipped and it increased a bit alone with crypto 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.880 prices last full and then it's been basically dropping like 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.080 a rock. So part of the enthusiasm might be due 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.440 to the fact that it's just dropped so so low. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.600 And although we have just about a minute or so 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.160 left left. But I am curious what the heck is 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:46.840 going on with Salana. Yes, so Salana experience. Some of 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.320 the Salana users all of a sudden have seen coins 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.640 drained from the wallets, and I guess the investigation is 0:15:54.680 --> 0:16:00.320 still ongoing. Uh. All signs are pointing to prop jims 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:06.200 with uh some wallets um that users have been using. Uh. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.480 You know, it's it's interesting uh in crypto as as 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.880 as you know. Uh uh, it's just bugs. Oh, kinds 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.920 of bugs abound, and you know, everything is being built 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.760 so quickly that you know, uh, the stuff happens, and 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.920 as a result, hackers are just being very active, and 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.000 it seems like every day we hear of something being drained. 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.840 It's certainly not necessarily good news for the people who 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.840 are being hacked, but it keeps you busy, Olga, and 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.040 we love it when you join us here on Bloomberg 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.080 Business Week. Over career crypto reporter for Bloomberg News, she 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:47.080 joins us on the phone from Portland, Oregon. The journal. Now, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:52.120 but you let me drive, Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please, 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:58.080 I'll do the vels I want to drive. It's the 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:04.320 question that drives This is the drive to the globe 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.399 on Bluebird Radio and it's the drive to the close. 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.679 We got less than ten minutes to go here in 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.640 the US equity market, and we've got a great voice 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.440 joining us to help us understand what's going on with 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.080 the markets, especially is this a bear market rally? Cole 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.239 Smeade is the president and portfolio manager at Smeade at 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.639 Capital Management. He joins us on the phone from Phoenix, Arizona. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.200 Col Cole, how are you this afternoon? Uh, we'll see 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.280 in a lot of red in the oil patch right now, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.399 but knowing that's just part of the game when you 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:36.920 want to own a business for a long time and 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.760 get really wealthy. Okay, well let's start with oil because 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.720 this is an area that you know, last time we spoke, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.439 you were really bullish on You think there's despite the 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.639 fact that we're you know, pretty far from a barrel 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.840 where we saw things just very recently now close to 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:55.760 ninety Um, what's your outlook? Yeah? So I think what? Um? 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:57.439 I think? What kind of is going on just in 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.720 the interim, is you know, those stocks have moved up 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.200 a lot lot um kind of the momentum crowd is 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.119 kind of trying to figure out where to kind of 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.719 you know, go play chips at the casino next, and 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:08.399 so you I just see, I think you're seeing a 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.040 lot of short term momentum disappear. But for people like us, 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.800 what we're paying attention to is how much book value 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.080 per share is growing in those businesses. So, for example, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.760 occidentally reported this week, Uh, we were looking at the numbers. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.199 Book value per share grew eleven point four percent in 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.000 the quarter. Now, what did most that come off of 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.520 was paying down debt inwards. The net worth grew because 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.800 there's less liabilities to call the assets um. But that's 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.840 coming from cash generation. And it's very tough to find 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.960 businesses in the U stock market or in other markets 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.200 like Canada and the oil patch that that produced that 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.159 kind of book value per share growth. And I'm just 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.119 so you know, Tim we I think that's exactly what 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.840 buffets looking at because for years Berrture used to track 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.200 their performance in book value growth against the essences under returns. 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.720 Well cool, let's let's frow it out a little bit 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.560 and talk about the index level and wrap it into 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.200 what we've been hearing from just the parade of FED 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.520 speakers that we've gotten this week, Because it feels like 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.440 the FMC members have pushed back pretty strongly on the 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.920 idea that, you know, perhaps they would slow down the 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:16.560 pace of rate hikes. But then you look at the 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.040 SMP five hundred, you look at the NASAC one hundred. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.920 We've seen a pretty big rally, especially yesterday. Of course 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.640 today it's a little bit that's tepid, you could say, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:30.000 But I'm curious how you you marry those two stats together. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.439 Why does that make sense? It's a great question, and 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.840 I think to your latter point, Katie, I think you're 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.840 getting it something that we that people have to be 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.240 very careful on, because what you're kind of leading to 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.359 say is, well, look what the markets are telling us, okay, 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.919 And you have to remember markets do not instruct you, 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.360 They serve you, okay, As Buffett says, So to use 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.560 that example, anybody it looked late last year, they say, well, 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.159 what's the market telling us? And the answer was, what 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.480 was a bear market? You idiot? Right, That's what the 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.080 markets we're going to tell you in the end. But 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.400 nobody knew that at the time. And so how we 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.240 look at this when it comes to what the Federal 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.119 Reserve is attempting to do, they are going to attempt 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.080 to try to raise rates in a way to get 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.760 real real rates on the short end of the curve 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.040 to zero. Now, where are they gonna have to do that? 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.680 I mean north of four, probably five? Because the question 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.879 is is how is aggregate demand going to react to that, 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.200 which so far aggregate demand has not done what you'd 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.000 have thought, um, you know, compared to most rate rises. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:30.560 I think that has to do with the consumer and 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.399 the household and that kind of stuff. But I just 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.680 pointed out, because what if this is terribly sticky and 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.159 what if it continues to flow through wages? So the 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.639 best wages in America year over year last you know, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.879 looking twelve months back, was the lowest income cortile okay, 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.239 Which means if blue collar America or the lower end 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.400 part of America's winning, who the loser is in fed 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:59.280 rate increases our asset owners a k a. The stock market, okay? 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.280