Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
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Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts. Let's do this. M Divorce touches everyone.
Speaker 1: My own mother has been divorced three times. Yeah, three
Speaker 1: of divorces. I met Will as he was splitting from
Speaker 1: his first wife, Shari. I love the Tony Braxton. She's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Tony is one of your favorite. Yes,
Speaker 1: this is exciting. Table Talk has become one of my
Speaker 1: favorite shows. Gonna be the Realist, the most honest, superstar
Speaker 1: singer and multiple Grammy winner. Tony Braxton has endured health issues,
Speaker 1: financial struggles, and a painful public breakup from her husband
Speaker 1: of twelve years on I think this thing is a martini.
Speaker 1: That's so is a martini to talk about divorce, the
Speaker 1: D word, surviving divorce. This one he is my book. Yes,
Speaker 1: the Tony Brax and she and I we talk a
Speaker 1: lot about all kinds of stuff. We came across the
Speaker 1: subject of divorce. Yeah, and you know game has been
Speaker 1: divorced three times. You gotta do it. Did you get
Speaker 1: it right? And I'll kill you. I hate it being divorced.
Speaker 1: I hated everything about it. I hated having to surrender
Speaker 1: to the loss. I'm everyone said, you don't even at
Speaker 1: the acceptance stage. I'm like, no, I feel like a loss.
Speaker 1: I'm waving the white flag my husband and not excess.
Speaker 1: I keep saying husband Jesus. My ex husband. Carrie was
Speaker 1: one of the founding members of Mint Condition. Pretty okay,
Speaker 1: So you were waiting for that. Yeah, yeah, that is
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Yeah. So you guys fell in
Speaker 1: love and had two beautiful boys. The part that I
Speaker 1: found really interesting is the idea that you went from
Speaker 1: being divorced from being husband and wife two boyfriend and girls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my husband became my boyfriend and we were attempting to
Speaker 1: salvage the relationship again. We were hopeful and we dated
Speaker 1: for a good year and almost two years after we
Speaker 1: got a divorce. I immediately, I know it sound crazy, right,
Speaker 1: No it doesn't, because actually one of my husbands proposed
Speaker 1: that to me as well. I just didn't think it
Speaker 1: was a good idea. It was cutting the cords slowly,
Speaker 1: like to sign it before we sniffed it. Still hurt badly.
Speaker 1: It sound good. Did the kids know you were dating?
Speaker 1: I don't think the kids knew we were divorced. Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought we were going to get back together, and
Speaker 1: we were clever, at least we thought we were. We'd
Speaker 1: wait to the kids would go to sleep, and then
Speaker 1: he would leave the warning you're just trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how to salvage, because that's the thing. How do
Speaker 1: you salvage? Would still there, which I think it's important
Speaker 1: specifically when you have children, we assume that maybe the
Speaker 1: kids won't notice, and when you get older, you go
Speaker 1: with the kids know everything right. I felt shallow because
Speaker 1: my husband's excessment and I broke up for money issues.
Speaker 1: That's why you guys broke up. I found out had lupas.
Speaker 1: At the time, I couldn't make money because I had
Speaker 1: lupas and had to cancel the show. That was my
Speaker 1: personal contribution to the marriage failing, because who wants to
Speaker 1: take care of person who's sick all the time. He
Speaker 1: never said that, but I felt it. I remember a
Speaker 1: few times being in a hospital ill and he would
Speaker 1: come later in the day or maybe the next day,
Speaker 1: and I would think, oh, he's not coming because I'm sick.
Speaker 1: I never really talked to my excessment about it. I
Speaker 1: probably should have, but if I'm going to be completely honest,
Speaker 1: it was money was just the decoration on the tree.
Speaker 1: The tree itself was I felt because I was sick,
Speaker 1: he left, so it gave me maybe insecure. I always
Speaker 1: felt like if I didn't get sick and I could
Speaker 1: have continued to work, we wouldn't have had that deficit.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have shown his face, I should say, and
Speaker 1: we would probably have still been together. Got it? Yeah, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate. Yeah, you know the Red Table. I love
Speaker 1: the Red Table. But the Red Table makes you emotional
Speaker 1: when you get the talk about it and soothing at
Speaker 1: the end. So did you have to pay alimony? Yes?
Speaker 1: I had to be. I was of those girls. There's
Speaker 1: this a couple of us. It's me that I know
Speaker 1: of as Brittany. Remember it's Hallie mary Is allegedly. I
Speaker 1: was very very angry about that, but it was because
Speaker 1: we had an existing pre nup and postnup. Then what
Speaker 1: made you angry about it? If if it has already
Speaker 1: been in agreement? Because I wanted to Renege. I wanted
Speaker 1: to Renege. I'm going to be honest, I got he
Speaker 1: should say. Now, even though if it were reversed and
Speaker 1: a guy had more, we would expect him to make
Speaker 1: sure the lady's okay, right, we would expect that, And
Speaker 1: so I can't really bitch about it too much. However,
Speaker 1: semiicolon right, whoa tough that's a tough pill. Well, in
Speaker 1: my divorces, I never got nothing from nobody, never asked
Speaker 1: for nothing from nobody. Pose you had to pay somebody
Speaker 1: that that would be mad I was. That's what I
Speaker 1: was angry. I'm not doing that. I mean I went
Speaker 1: through this phase like, oh man, the new bitches through
Speaker 1: the whole phase. That's what I was so angry about,
Speaker 1: like to get out the bed so I can pay
Speaker 1: this debt for me personally, I'm not mature enough to
Speaker 1: have a divorce. I'm just not. I don't think I
Speaker 1: would ever be mature. Not. I don't. Because when when
Speaker 1: you have to start going in breaking up, as said
Speaker 1: right there, when you start having to divide things, separate,
Speaker 1: cut off, let me tell you that's when the red
Speaker 1: table turned upside down, and it won't be read no more.
Speaker 1: This joke will be smashed and shambles like you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I don't know. I actually think it
Speaker 1: takes more maturity to stay together and refined. But that's
Speaker 1: a maturity I do have. You understand, like I know
Speaker 1: what I can do and I know what I can't.
Speaker 1: I actually have more maturity to figure it out within
Speaker 1: and work with what I got. I've seen people try
Speaker 1: to have some of the most friendly divorces and it
Speaker 1: just at some point it's still painful. It's still painful.
Speaker 1: My parents are divorced after thirt four years. That was
Speaker 1: really tough on me and all my sisters and my brother.
Speaker 1: They don't like each other m still, and then sometimes
Speaker 1: the children feel divided. Even at my age, I don't
Speaker 1: want to love my dad too loud in front of
Speaker 1: my mom. That's the toughest part. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm a grown woman. My parents divorced. That for thirty
Speaker 1: four years. I was thirty two and my parents got
Speaker 1: a divorce, and my parents divorce because of infidelity, and
Speaker 1: my mom felt complete the trail the woman and me
Speaker 1: understands what my mother is going through. Can imagine it's
Speaker 1: one thirty four years and they go with someone else.
Speaker 1: That trail you can't get yeah. Even now today, if
Speaker 1: my dad and my mom are in this room, No,
Speaker 1: my dad does little things, little cheap shots, and try to,
Speaker 1: you know, make my mom feel some kind of way
Speaker 1: via us. And then my mom would do little things.
Speaker 1: You talk to your dad today. We don't want to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked to her, because I don't remember my mom's
Speaker 1: you know, that was kind of a trail they be.
Speaker 1: I often think if my think if my kids are
Speaker 1: going through something to school with their grades, I would say,
Speaker 1: my kids are doing this because of the boys. That
Speaker 1: was the hardest part for me. I was blaming myself,
Speaker 1: like I shouldn't have challenged the relationship. I should have
Speaker 1: just stayed in it and made it work and figured
Speaker 1: it out like I always do. How did you get
Speaker 1: past that guilt? Every day? I still struggle because little
Speaker 1: things come up with family with children. You had something
Speaker 1: when You're one of your shows, which I love, is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows, and you said that we
Speaker 1: don't realize when we have children that everyone comes with
Speaker 1: issues from their childhood, right And I said, I'm giving
Speaker 1: my children issues right now. I'm giving it to them
Speaker 1: like here on the plate. Here it is right there
Speaker 1: a deficit in their lives like myself. But this deficit
Speaker 1: I'm giving them, I have to figure I'm adding to
Speaker 1: their pain and I hate that for my children. Did
Speaker 1: I scar my kid? It's this the moment that I
Speaker 1: scarred him. It's a tough thing as a parent, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to figure out your happiness while you have children's
Speaker 1: responsibility you feel towards their happiness. Yeah, okay, what would
Speaker 1: you say you've learned? Because when I look at your divorces,
Speaker 1: But you know what, here's the thing, though, I make
Speaker 1: fun again, I'll make fun of gave me a lot,
Speaker 1: the fact that she's been divorced three times. But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you something. You've actually had evolution. She had
Speaker 1: like and this is why you can never judge people's journeys. Okay,
Speaker 1: but she's had evolution. So my father was abusive and
Speaker 1: they were young, so that wasn't gonna work. That was
Speaker 1: no shock for anybody. I wasn't I was in high
Speaker 1: school then. Yeah, I actually did not want that. You
Speaker 1: didn't want that divorce? Wanted the divorce? Why did you
Speaker 1: fight it? He didn't want it? Like, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to fight to be with someone that doesn't want to
Speaker 1: be with me. We both had issues with drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 1: The marriage would not have lasted anyway. No, and that's
Speaker 1: the thing. And then you got clean, and then Paul
Speaker 1: came into your life, and he was such a stability,
Speaker 1: you know. But as you grew in your sobriety, you
Speaker 1: grow into song and people can't always come with you.
Speaker 1: But doesn't make it bad. You start a relationship in
Speaker 1: one way, these are the things that I want out
Speaker 1: of a relationship. And at that particular point of time,
Speaker 1: two people are in agreement. Then you grow or you
Speaker 1: don't grow. People change, and then people's capacity can't always
Speaker 1: keep up with the change, whatever that might be. I'm
Speaker 1: beginning to see that because I didn't at first, because
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm a whole school. I'm very Disney.
Speaker 1: I love love, I love everything about being in love,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to try. That's because I just not.
Speaker 1: I just didn't give up. And Paul and I we
Speaker 1: hung in there a long time. We went together over
Speaker 1: it's of years. It wasn't easy, but it wasn't a
Speaker 1: nasty divorce. I can remember flying home from somewhere and
Speaker 1: just being angry because just feeling like, we could have
Speaker 1: had such a great life together if you would, just
Speaker 1: if you would, just you know, he always want somebody
Speaker 1: to be something, something other than who you were, and
Speaker 1: I think that was really the issue for him, is
Speaker 1: that you don't really love someone if you're trying to
Speaker 1: constantly change them. I just don't think he really appreciated
Speaker 1: the woman that I was. I did not want to
Speaker 1: go through another divorce. I really didn't know. My sister passed.
Speaker 1: I had a cousin that passed, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this. I can't. Life is too short.
Speaker 1: I have got to be happy, and I was just miserable.
Speaker 1: Partnering is a lot more than romance. It has a
Speaker 1: lot to do with survival resources and just having somebody
Speaker 1: or somebody's buy you that can help you figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody needs that, you know, and it's only for you
Speaker 1: to decide on how you need it and who you needed.
Speaker 1: From Preach, I don't remember you asking me on an
Speaker 1: episode that we did with Will, she was like, well,
Speaker 1: why don't y'all just divorce? One of the ideas for
Speaker 1: me is that we built such a beautiful community, we
Speaker 1: built such a beautiful family, and our survival, we do
Speaker 1: well together, and then breaking that group and community up
Speaker 1: for me, it's just never an option. It's just like
Speaker 1: no subtraction right and for me to add go right ahead.
Speaker 1: But I don't see they I didn't think about that
Speaker 1: idea with my last divorce. I never talked to anybody
Speaker 1: and the family to that speaking of survival and group
Speaker 1: since Paul had been part of this group. I have
Speaker 1: my relationship with Paul and my kids that's the only
Speaker 1: grandfather they've known, whether he's been an ideal one or not,
Speaker 1: because in their mind, here's people. Now, she has her
Speaker 1: ideas about it, but then they have theirs. I have
Speaker 1: appreciation from two because he came into my mother's life
Speaker 1: at a time where I was grateful because I was like,
Speaker 1: she's good. That earns him at the table forever. I
Speaker 1: didn't see the necessity for it. But that's what I
Speaker 1: love about your situation. But that's what I love about
Speaker 1: your situation, Tony, is that even though he he might
Speaker 1: not have been the ideal husband for you, that you
Speaker 1: still worked that family. Definitely, what has been your process
Speaker 1: and that, oh it has caused friction and some of
Speaker 1: my post situations because holidays it's me, the kids and
Speaker 1: their dad. So you guys do do Christmas and Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving holidays? Yeah together. He's an extension of my family,
Speaker 1: not just because he's my kid's dad, but because he
Speaker 1: was a part of my life. So we're we're family now, right,
Speaker 1: And it's kind of tough blending families. Sometimes it gets
Speaker 1: difficult Christmas morning waking up and my baby daddy's there.
Speaker 1: But I find a lot of things I do for them.
Speaker 1: They're boys. I don't know how to raise boys. You know.
Speaker 1: I can teach them how to be a good person,
Speaker 1: but I can't show them how to be a man.
Speaker 1: And then we have your new fiance. A new fiance.
Speaker 1: We are complete opposite. His name is Brian Williams, but
Speaker 1: most people call him Birdman, and we've been friends for
Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen years. A turning point in our relationship was
Speaker 1: when I got ill and I was out on the
Speaker 1: road touring and he came to every date every night.
Speaker 1: He was there on the bus spelling behind me every
Speaker 1: night just to make sure I was okay. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: I felt someone was there with me. What would you
Speaker 1: say that you've learned most out of that whole journey
Speaker 1: with Carrie from the dissolved, the divorce, and then the
Speaker 1: recreation of the relationship. Yeah. Well, I'm still learning. But
Speaker 1: what I think I've learned most just that surrendering doesn't
Speaker 1: always mean defeat. We will always have our children together.
Speaker 1: It was a successful marriage where should lasted twelve years,
Speaker 1: and that's what it was supposed to be. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be infinity. He's in my life for infinity forever.
Speaker 1: But that stage of the relationship does not define who
Speaker 1: will be in the future. I think that's a beautiful
Speaker 1: way to look at it. We're gonna bring the fish
Speaker 1: bowl up. This is the fish bowls, both the fishball
Speaker 1: It's like from our viewers, Monique from Nashville for Tony
Speaker 1: and Gammy, what did you do with your wedding rings
Speaker 1: and dresses after getting divorced? I kept them all everything?
Speaker 1: Good for you? What's that mean what I'm saying? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a gown because the first two times
Speaker 1: I got married in the courthouse and we just had
Speaker 1: a big reception afterwards. But in my third marriage, I
Speaker 1: actually had two sets. Yeah, and he wanted both of
Speaker 1: them back. Did you give them back? I absolutely did. Why.
Speaker 1: That was what we had talked about if we ever
Speaker 1: got divorced. We never assigned a pre nup or anything.
Speaker 1: And he always said he wanted it back, and no,
Speaker 1: he didn't get those backs. He worried if you were
Speaker 1: engaged and broke it off. Let me say they're yours.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's Elizabeth Taylor and me, but I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to give back. No, No, those are mine. Who
Speaker 1: gave them to me was word of the contracts. I
Speaker 1: just like to look at them sometimes. Monica from Washington
Speaker 1: for Tony. What's the most important thing you've learned from
Speaker 1: your past relationships that you know will help you with
Speaker 1: your current one. That's a good one. I will say communication.
Speaker 1: You gotta be honest, I gotta talk. Yeah, you feel yes,
Speaker 1: but you gotta feel free to do that. I didn't
Speaker 1: have that in my third relationship because I don't think
Speaker 1: we were really really friends, and I think that is important.
Speaker 1: I feel like now I'm married to my best friend.
Speaker 1: Katie from Memphis for Tony, you are now engaged at Birdman.
Speaker 1: Did you ever consider a just being in a relationship
Speaker 1: instead of a full legal marriage? Okay, I don't think
Speaker 1: they don't want me to be They don't want me to.
Speaker 1: But I'm used to people saying that because they don't
Speaker 1: get him. They don't know him like I know him.
Speaker 1: I get it, you get it. I do you willing
Speaker 1: to have a bus follow me while I'm on tour
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm good. I can't argue with that commitment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just that's that right of doctor. Yeah, not ride
Speaker 1: with that. Bonnie from Virginia for Tony your sister Tamar's
Speaker 1: divorce as well, what advice did you give her during
Speaker 1: her divorce? Um? Nothing, got it? Just be happy? Yeah,
Speaker 1: be sure because once you pour the divorce card, did
Speaker 1: you say I want a divorce? She can't take it back.
Speaker 1: That's my red table talk. Thank you, Sis, thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you too, gam thank you so much. On our
Speaker 1: next red table talk, Jade and I have the same father,
Speaker 1: different mothers, and he told me I'd rather get high
Speaker 1: than be your father's I asked you, why didn't you
Speaker 1: just toss me to the side when you don't need
Speaker 1: people to be something for you? That was my AHA
Speaker 1: moment of utter forgiveness. Get in their game. You know,
Speaker 1: I got short arms. I'm here with my friend told
Speaker 1: Brat and I shouldn't be seeing next step herb. We
Speaker 1: had a good show with the boys. Hey, red table
Speaker 1: Talk family. Head to our red table Talk Facebook watch
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Speaker 1: to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by
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