WEBVTT - FAN FAVORITE: How do Michelin Stars Work?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope

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<v Speaker 1>and iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Guess what Mango was that?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, well, I know you're a huge Katy Perry fan, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Well not really. Well, you're at least familiar with the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen songs she did with Migos called Bone Appetite,

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<v Speaker 2>right like big One?

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<v Speaker 1>No, real, this is it.

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<v Speaker 2>We may need to do a different episode. That's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it's no firework. But the whole song is

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<v Speaker 2>basically this extended metaphor. You didn't know she was into this, right,

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<v Speaker 2>extended metaphors where Katy Perry is describing herself as a

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<v Speaker 2>delicious meal in lots of creative ways, and at one

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<v Speaker 2>point in the song, she says, I'm a five star Michelin.

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<v Speaker 2>A five star Michelin.

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<v Speaker 1>Mango five stars is really confident.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's not confident. It's ridiculous because the Micheline star

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<v Speaker 2>rating only goes up to three stars. And poor Katy

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<v Speaker 2>Perry actually didn't realize that sousicians don't fact check their songs.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, it's very, very disappointing.

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<v Speaker 1>So wait, well, why does Michelin only use three stars

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<v Speaker 1>and not like five or ten.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the Michelin Star system is full of all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of arbitrary, opaque, and frankly mystifying rules, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of its whole thing. That's why they do this, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what we're getting into in this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Or in the words of Katy Perry Bonepetite.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew you were a big fan. Welcome back to

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<v Speaker 2>Part Time Genius. I'm will and as always, I'm here

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<v Speaker 2>with my good friend Mango, and somewhere behind that big

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<v Speaker 2>booth is our pal Dylan, who I think is trolling

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<v Speaker 2>us because he's decorated that booth with all these posters

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<v Speaker 2>of the I see. I think I see the Pillsbury

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<v Speaker 2>dough Boy, the Staypuff marshmallow Man, even that character from

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<v Speaker 2>what was it, Big Hero six, Big Hero six?

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty It is definitely trolling us because he's got every

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<v Speaker 1>other white puffy character from pop culture except the Michelin Man. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>where did he get so many Pillsburgh doble.

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<v Speaker 2>He's impressive. He's very into like the you know, finding

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<v Speaker 2>the sales.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's probably where he really goes all out.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm really excited to be doing this show together,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm curious what made you think to do this

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<v Speaker 2>episode on Michelin Stars.

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<v Speaker 1>So I watched this Bradley Cooper movie on a flight.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called Burnt, and you've seen it, and there's this

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing where they're talking about how to spot these

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<v Speaker 1>like elite reviewers from Michelin whatever, and they come in

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<v Speaker 1>in pairs and order in specific ways, and I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of want to see how much of that was true.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was part of it. Plus, I know your

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<v Speaker 1>parents are foodies and they used to have all those

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<v Speaker 1>menus on their porch from restaurants.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I just thought it'd be a fun topic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm excited to dive in. So why don't we

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<v Speaker 2>go back to the beginning just to think about where

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<v Speaker 2>the name comes from. So basically, we're going way back

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<v Speaker 2>to eighteen eighty nine and Michelin started out as a

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<v Speaker 2>tire manufacturing company, which I think a lot of people know,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was the brothers Andre and Eduard Michelin, and

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<v Speaker 2>they took over their grandfather's struggling manufacturing business and they

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<v Speaker 2>started producing tires and they were really clever, so they

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<v Speaker 2>pat into this removable pneumatic bike tire. They invented the

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<v Speaker 2>first automobile tire, and they even made rubber train.

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<v Speaker 1>Tires, tires for trains.

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<v Speaker 2>That's supposedly why the Paris Metro used to be so quiet.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd never heard of this before, but just then, looking

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<v Speaker 2>to this, it's pretty neat and it doesn't screech like

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<v Speaker 2>New York's. But anyway, in eighteen eighty nine, Michelin debuts

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<v Speaker 2>their puffy mascot, the Michelin Man. Way back in eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as Dylan pointed out, looks a whole lot like

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<v Speaker 1>the stay puffed guy from Ghostbusters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, except he's not made of marshmallows. He's actually made

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<v Speaker 2>of tires. And apparently Michelin tires used to be white.

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<v Speaker 2>And one day Eduard looked at this pile of tires

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<v Speaker 2>and he was like, hey, Andre, if that pile of

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<v Speaker 2>tires had arms, it would look like a man. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's how this stuff comes to life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I guess anything's a mascot if you

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<v Speaker 1>put arms on it.

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<v Speaker 2>And they had this kind of funny concept for it.

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<v Speaker 2>They named their tire man Bibindam because that comes from

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<v Speaker 2>the Latin phrase nunc s bibindum, which means now is

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<v Speaker 2>the time to drink. Because then these earliest ads, if

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<v Speaker 2>you look at them, he's actually holding up this goblet

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<v Speaker 2>of nails and broken glass, because the whole concept was

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to show that michelin tires were unfazed by

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<v Speaker 2>obstacles on the road.

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<v Speaker 1>So in this super weird scenario, he's drinking nails and

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<v Speaker 1>broken glass.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the tire man, that's what it does.

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<v Speaker 1>Is okay, So Michelin man is like this well fed,

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<v Speaker 1>indestructible bon Vivonne, the kind of guy who can eatn

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<v Speaker 1>drink all day and night and just keep going.

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<v Speaker 2>It's such as impressive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a.

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<v Speaker 2>Very French illustration of longevity. So anyway, in nineteen hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>Michelin begins publishing these free travel guides to France and

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<v Speaker 2>eventually they make guides for other parts of Europe. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's a pretty smart play because Michelin's basically acting like

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<v Speaker 2>tourism pioneers, so they're encouraging ordinary people to take longer

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<v Speaker 2>and longer road trips. As you know, of course, helps

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<v Speaker 2>boost hire sales, and from the beginning of these tourism

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<v Speaker 2>road trip guys included restaurant recommendations so.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess these early French travelers weren't like eating handfuls

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<v Speaker 1>of Twizzlers or beef jerky on they.

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<v Speaker 2>Really missing out, really really missing out. And Michelin was

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<v Speaker 2>smart about their review system too. The reviews were always

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<v Speaker 2>conducted anonymously, and so this gave Micheline this extra layer

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<v Speaker 2>of credibility with customers. They weren't just handing out good

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<v Speaker 2>reviews to friends. Then you fast forward to nineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six when the stars first began appearing. So this is

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<v Speaker 2>a quarter of a century later, but at that time

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<v Speaker 2>they're all awarded to restaurants in France, and so initially

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<v Speaker 2>they were just starred and non starred restaurants. But then

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<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen thirties, Michelin created the three star system

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<v Speaker 2>that remains in place today.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's no real reason that it's three stars.

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<v Speaker 2>They just kind of decided that. I mean, they're French,

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<v Speaker 2>so they have to do something. It's a little different.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've ever been to a Michelin

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<v Speaker 2>star restaurant, Mango a one or two or I got

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<v Speaker 2>a three Mango.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, Milo's a three star restaurant.

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<v Speaker 2>The fast food burger joint, I think it was two stars,

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<v Speaker 2>and still they started putting that extra nub of meat

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<v Speaker 2>on the paddy. It's a little bonus nub, and then

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<v Speaker 2>that got them to three. No, actually I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>they have any stars mego.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think what's funny about the whole Michelin Star

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<v Speaker 1>thing is how vague the distinctions are between sort of

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<v Speaker 1>the one, two and three star establishments.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you mean by that?

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<v Speaker 1>So apparently one Michelin Star is award to restaurants using

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<v Speaker 1>top quality ingredients, where dishes with these distinct flavors are

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<v Speaker 1>prepared to a consistently high standard.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah that sounds good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it totally sounds good. And then two Michelin Stars

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<v Speaker 1>are awarded when the personality and talent of the chef

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<v Speaker 1>are evident in these expertly crafted dishes and their food

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<v Speaker 1>is refined and inspired.

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<v Speaker 2>M hm also sounds good, m H.

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<v Speaker 1>And three Michelin Stars, the highest award, is given for

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<v Speaker 1>the superlative cooking of chefs at the peak of their profession.

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<v Speaker 1>The cooking is to an art form, and some of

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<v Speaker 1>their dishes are destined to become classics.

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<v Speaker 2>That also sounds good.

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<v Speaker 1>Mengo system, that's the things they all sound good, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>and they also kind of sound the same, right, like

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<v Speaker 1>like one star is good, two stars is more good,

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<v Speaker 1>and three stars is just like more and more good.

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<v Speaker 2>Seriously, it's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So how do you eat a meal and decide

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<v Speaker 1>that the food is refined and inspired versus you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a meal that's an art form? Right? How do they

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<v Speaker 1>even make these judgments?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm glad you asked that, mango.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's almost like I set you off.

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<v Speaker 2>So the judging is done by anonymous Michelin inspectors, all

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<v Speaker 2>of whom work full time and have prior restaurant and

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<v Speaker 2>hospitality experience. Multiple inspectors dine at a restaurant under consideration,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they talk about these ratings together, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just one person that's passing judgment on a place

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<v Speaker 2>after a single meal. Inspectors visit multiple times for different

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<v Speaker 2>meals with the goal of experiencing the full range of

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<v Speaker 2>the menu. So it's a really thorough process. And Michigan

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<v Speaker 2>claims there is quote no sek mathematical formula and that

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<v Speaker 2>decor degree of formality, type of cuisine, like all of

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<v Speaker 2>that that they really don't matter. Of course, there are

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<v Speaker 2>five specific criteria the judges used to award stars. So

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<v Speaker 2>here they are. The first is quality the ingredients, the

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<v Speaker 2>second is the harmony of flavors. Then you have the

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<v Speaker 2>mastery of culinary techniques. Fourth is the personality of the

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<v Speaker 2>chef is expressed through their cuisine. And then the fifth

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<v Speaker 2>is consistency of the above but across the entire menu

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<v Speaker 2>and over time. And it's worth mentioning. There's also this

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<v Speaker 2>thing called the bib Gourmand designation and it's given to

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<v Speaker 2>the most affordable restaurants that offer high value for the money.

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<v Speaker 2>And I have wondered this before because you'll notice this

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<v Speaker 2>in cities. Sometimes it'll be like a diner or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that that'll end up with a Michelin Star. I

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<v Speaker 2>do think that's pretty cool that thinks they think about

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<v Speaker 2>it this way. But all of this judging has done

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<v Speaker 2>completely anonymously, and that just actually seems crazy to me, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't understand how these inspectors could keep their identity

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<v Speaker 2>a secret if they're hopping around to all the world's

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<v Speaker 2>best restaurants multiple times a year.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's exactly the part I wanted to dig into.

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<v Speaker 1>So why don't we tackle that after.

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<v Speaker 2>A break sounds good. Welcome back to part time Genius,

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<v Speaker 2>where we're talking about Michelin stars and why chefs are

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<v Speaker 2>so darn thirsty for them. So Megel, I think you

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<v Speaker 2>were just about to tell us how the food criticism

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<v Speaker 2>at Michelin works.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So in two thousand and nine, The New

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<v Speaker 1>Yorker published this profile of a New York inspector and

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<v Speaker 1>it's super fun and cloak and dagger. The inspector's pseudonym

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<v Speaker 1>was Maxine, and the first really interesting thing is that

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<v Speaker 1>she said most Michelin executives don't even know who the

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<v Speaker 1>inspectors are.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, inspectors are told to keep their work secret

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<v Speaker 1>from their friends and even from their parents.

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<v Speaker 2>I have to be honest, I don't think I could

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<v Speaker 2>keep that secret from my parents.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know. I feel like Bill and Paulett would

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<v Speaker 1>definitely be dining with you and bringing everyone boxes of

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<v Speaker 1>fancy leftovers. But Maxine revealed that she ate restaurant meals

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<v Speaker 1>about two hundred days per year, dinner and lunch, and

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<v Speaker 1>almost always alone, because inspectors really can't risk being identified

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<v Speaker 1>through conversations at the table.

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<v Speaker 2>I love eating out, and I love eating out at

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<v Speaker 2>good restaurants, but two hundred days a year I have

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<v Speaker 2>to and especially like by yourself most of the time.

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<v Speaker 2>That kind of seems like torture.

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<v Speaker 1>I know. It's almost like work travel, Like as a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>you think it's going to be so exciting, like on

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<v Speaker 1>the road in hotels and stuff, and then you do

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<v Speaker 1>it for a few months and it kind of loses

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<v Speaker 1>the charm. But at Michelin, the system is almost set

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<v Speaker 1>up like this secret service. So Maxine said when she

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<v Speaker 1>was being considered for the job, she had to eat

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<v Speaker 1>several meals under supervision of inspectors who operated like spies.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is her quote. You never know the name

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<v Speaker 1>of the person you're meeting. You never know where their

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<v Speaker 1>meeting until right before, so they call you up and

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<v Speaker 1>say meet me at the corner of XYZ and.

0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Xyz, so dramatic, like you kind of forget for a second,

0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.920
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about food, Like it seems like a national

0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.800
<v Speaker 2>security thing, but it's really like who has the best

0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:15.480
<v Speaker 2>pork belly.

0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And aspiring inspectors also have to attend a secret

0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Michelin training course in France, and then they have to

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.080
<v Speaker 1>complete all this additional still anonymous training in another country,

0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.000
<v Speaker 1>and then they do a three to six month still

0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:32.520
<v Speaker 1>very anonymous apprenticeship with a more senior inspector. So another

0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.880
<v Speaker 1>anonymous inspector from a twenty seventeen Food and Wine article

0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.400
<v Speaker 1>did shed a little bit of light on what happens here.

0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.079
<v Speaker 1>He said, we always order three courses, an appetizer and

0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.320
<v Speaker 1>entree and dessert, and we try to pick items that

0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.920
<v Speaker 1>are the best representation of the menu concept or chef's talents.

0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.160
<v Speaker 1>But of course, despite Michelin's best efforts, in December two

0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.400
<v Speaker 1>thousand and three, there was this big tell all.

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I was hoping you would get to a tell all.

0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you kind of have to hope for it. So

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.320
<v Speaker 1>this book comes out from this inspector in Pascal Remy,

0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.440
<v Speaker 1>who was fired after revealing that he'd kept a diary

0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 1>of his career, and he planned to publish this book.

0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.719
<v Speaker 1>And so the book is called The Inspector Sits Down

0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.120
<v Speaker 1>at the Table, and it was published in France in

0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.520
<v Speaker 1>April two thousand and four, and it caused a huge stir.

0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.520
<v Speaker 1>One journalist from France called it a storm and a

0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 1>saucepan A storm.

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I kind of love that.

0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's great, right, It's also a good description of Ruby,

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.880
<v Speaker 1>but Remy alleged some pretty wild stuff in this book,

0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 1>all of which Michelin disputes. He said that despite publishing

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.240
<v Speaker 1>new guides with updated ratings every year, Michelin didn't actually

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 1>visit or revisit every restaurant annually, which is a huge

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.000
<v Speaker 1>scandal right in part because there aren't enough inspectors. Remy

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 1>wrote that there were only five inspectors in all of

0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 1>France as of two thousand and three when he was writing,

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.719
<v Speaker 1>which is not nearly enough to cover the country's ten

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>thousand restaurants. He also said there's some three star restaurants

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 1>which were secretly deemed untouchable, so like, under no circumstance

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 1>could they lose their talk rating, even though Remi claimed

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.280
<v Speaker 1>more than a third of the guide's three star rated

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 1>establishments didn't actually meet the three star criteria.

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.719
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's a really bad look for a

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.840
<v Speaker 2>rating system that's supposed to be, you know, super objective

0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and impartial for this whole history of its existence. But

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.079
<v Speaker 2>when you have something like a Michelin star that sought

0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>after and means so much to these restaurants, there's definitely

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.080
<v Speaker 2>going to be some fallout from this.

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 1>So what are you thinking about right now.

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, for example, obviously, getting a Michelin star can catapult

0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.559
<v Speaker 2>a restaurant into fame in many cases bring these huge profits.

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.280
<v Speaker 2>But losing a star, and I'd not really thought about

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.960
<v Speaker 2>this before, but it can bring just the opposite of

0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>that effect. So Thornton's at the Fitzwilliam Hotel, a high

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 2>end Dublin restaurant, lost its Michelin star back in twenty fifteen,

0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 2>and it maintained this star for two decades, and when

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.640
<v Speaker 2>it did, profits dropped by seventy six percent by the

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 2>end of twenty sixteen. Yeah, and actually the place ended

0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>up having to close after that. And as the chef,

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Thornton told The Irish Independent, losing the star felt

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.680
<v Speaker 2>like quote getting stabbed in the heart. I mean, it

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>means so much to these people. In fact, one chef,

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:14.319
<v Speaker 2>Bernard Laisseau, was so terrified of losing his three Micheline

0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 2>stars that it may have actually contributed to his two

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 2>thousand and three suicide.

0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>That's really terrible.

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is. I mean he'd been running this

0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Burgundy restaurant called Le Couteur, where he had actually gotten

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.280
<v Speaker 2>a third Michelin star in nineteen ninety one. But in

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three, this French newspaper Le Figaro published

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>this rumor and claimed that he was slated to lose

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 2>his third star, and his widow told The Observer that

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the rumor had a real impact on her husband because

0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 2>he feared that losing a star would have these devastating

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.200
<v Speaker 2>financial consequences. But one of the saddest parts of the

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 2>story is after his death, the two thousand and three

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Michelin Guide gave the restaurant its usual three stars. That

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.320
<v Speaker 2>is so sad, it really is. But it's not just

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 2>losing a star that can have negative consequences for a restaurant.

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Even getting a star can throw a place into turmoil.

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 2>So it's an example of that. After being listed in

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 2>the twenty sixteen Hong Kong Guide, there was this dessert

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.840
<v Speaker 2>shop called Kai Kai Dessert that was forced to move

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>because its landlord got greedy and thinking that it would

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 2>bring this new spike in business, he raised the rent

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>by one hundred and twenty percent, which is awful. Yeah,

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the owners did get lucky though. There was this loyal

0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>customer that offered them rent in a nearby space at

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 2>a rent that he could afford, but the Michelin Star

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.360
<v Speaker 2>branding can be especially tough on small establishments that don't

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 2>have the capital or the capacity to meet this sudden

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>demand that comes with a rating. Like seventy two year

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 2>old Jafi, who earned a Michelin Star in twenty seventeen

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 2>for her cooking at an open air street food restaurant

0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>in Bangkok. So the award made her this overnight celebrity,

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 2>which is great, but she was one of only seventeen

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>chefs in Thailand with a star, and a few months

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 2>later she actually told a reporter she wanted who give

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 2>the star back?

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Can you actually give a starback?

0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Not really? But if I explain that her restaurant's vibes

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>had been super relaxed before and the star had basically

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>turned it into chaos, I actually feel like I've experienced

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>this before at restaurants when they seem so good and

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 2>suddenly they gained this notoriety and that experience has just

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 2>changed totally. So the award made her this overnight celebrity.

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 2>She was the only person cooking, so suddenly there was

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>this increase in traffic, and it meant she no longer

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.080
<v Speaker 2>had time to take breaks or chat with their diners

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 2>that were there, and her servers were overwhelmed from the

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 2>stress and just worry that neighbors on their street were

0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 2>going to get angry because of the crowds and the noise.

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 2>But the worst part was that Jay Fi had all

0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 2>these tax inspectors that started showing up seemingly because they

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>thought she must be making more money than she had reported,

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and they kept trying to look through her books.

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.680
<v Speaker 1>So is jay the only chef who's tried to give

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.200
<v Speaker 1>these stars back? Have you heard more?

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Not even close? So there's this South Korean chef oh

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Ya Kwan got an Italian eatery called Restaurante O, and

0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 2>it received a Michelin star in twenty seventeen. It was

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.600
<v Speaker 2>a guide to soul dining there and O claims that

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 2>as soon as he learned this, he contacted Michelin and

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.640
<v Speaker 2>asked to be removed, but it unfortunately didn't work for him,

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>and his restaurant appeared again in twenty eighteen with a star.

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.600
<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, I guess there's another way, right, he

0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 1>could just try to lower the quality of the food

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 1>theirs out, But I mean, I guess that's not anything

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.399
<v Speaker 1>any self respecting chef wants to do well.

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 2>In the twenty nineteen edition, oh actually did lose the star,

0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.439
<v Speaker 2>but he still appeared in the guide, at which point

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.919
<v Speaker 2>he actually sued Michelin, not for the demotion, but for

0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 2>including his restaurant at all. There was this CNN interview

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 2>that he did and he explained that the guide's methodology

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.720
<v Speaker 2>was part of the problem. It's the cruelest test in

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the world, he says. It forces the chefs to work

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>around a year waiting for a test, and they don't

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:00.679
<v Speaker 2>know when and it's coming.

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I do love that there's this rating system

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.080
<v Speaker 1>to help guide me as this outsider, especially in cities

0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>that I don't know. But you can see how it's

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.400
<v Speaker 1>hard on chefs. And also there have been strange stories

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 1>that make you question the objectivity and fairness of the organization,

0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>like apparently Michelin inspectors are supposed to visit a restaurant

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 1>several times before they raid it, but in two thousand

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.000
<v Speaker 1>and five, for the first time in history, Michelin was

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.200
<v Speaker 1>actually forced to recall one of its guides. The two

0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>thousand and five guide covering Belgium, the Netherlands in Luxembourg

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.880
<v Speaker 1>was pulled after fifty thousand copies had already been published,

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 1>and the reason was that this Belgian restaurant, the Austin Queen,

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.040
<v Speaker 1>had been given that bib Gorman designation, you know, the

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 1>one for like great cheap food, but the restaurant hadn't

0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:50.199
<v Speaker 1>actually opened yet loops. So you know, there's also this

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.280
<v Speaker 1>issue of investors in the Michelin Guide. The whole thing

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.880
<v Speaker 1>is a really expensive enterprise, and so like you're talking

0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>about these big tabs from fine dining restaurants plus printing

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 1>up the actual guide. So some Michelin guides are the

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.639
<v Speaker 1>result of investments from the countries themselves. Michelin guides to

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 1>Thailand and Singapore and Hong Kong are actually backed in

0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.919
<v Speaker 1>part by payments from the local tourism boards, which totally

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>makes sense, but the sums are pretty impressive. Like Thailand

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.720
<v Speaker 1>paid supposedly four point four million dollars to be paid

0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 1>out over the course of five years to fund like

0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.479
<v Speaker 1>multiple editions of the Michelin Thailand Guide.

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 2>That is a lot of money.

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and corporate sponsors can get involved too, Like to

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 1>launch the Hong Kong Guide in two thousand and eight,

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Michelin got funding from several brands including Evian Espresso, Robert

0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Parker Wine Advocate, which Michelin owns a stake in, And

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 1>while the details are kind of scarce, it kind of

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.240
<v Speaker 1>makes it hard to verify if government or corporate money

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.320
<v Speaker 1>is influencing Michelin Stars, and if they are, what extent

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 1>are they actually having their influence? Met?

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I have to guess this is not zero.

0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the website Eater connected some of the

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.440
<v Speaker 1>dots for Michelin Singapore g and so there's this Resorts

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.919
<v Speaker 1>World Sentosa and they acted as a title sponsor the

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.119
<v Speaker 1>guide and hosted this invitation only gala for the launch

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.960
<v Speaker 1>of the twenty sixteen Singapore Stars Guide and after that

0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 1>for the resort's restaurants also happened to snag seven of

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 1>those coveted Stars, So, I.

0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Mean it could be a coincidence. Probably not.

0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.720
<v Speaker 1>There's also been an issue with Michelin and greenwashing. So

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.879
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty, Michelin added a new designation to the

0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.679
<v Speaker 1>Stars and the bib Gourmond and they call it the

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Green Star. Supposedly it honors quote restaurants that are role

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>models when it comes to sustainable astronomy.

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:40.880
<v Speaker 2>So what exactly does that mean?

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it sounds great, but it's pretty unclear

0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.200
<v Speaker 1>what it actually indicates. So there's this chef Chris Polisi

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.120
<v Speaker 1>who wrote in this deleted blog now that the Green

0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Star review process consisted of one brief call to his restaurant.

0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 1>There wasn't an in person audit or a detailed questionnaire,

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.439
<v Speaker 1>and as he put it, there wasn't even quote a

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>critical question of any type. And then there's this other chef,

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Matt Orlando, who agreed, and he told Wired there was

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.359
<v Speaker 1>absolutely no fact checking during his Green Star review. I

0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>could have said anything and it would have qualified.

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Me for their ward. I'm just shocked by this.

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.920
<v Speaker 1>So Michelin says, our teams rely both on their field work,

0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 1>i e. On the experience of eating in that restaurant,

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 1>as well as in depth research and conversations with restaurant

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.600
<v Speaker 1>tours regarding their eco responsible practices. So that's their defense.

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I actually didn't think we could get more vague than

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.879
<v Speaker 2>refined and inspired versus elevated to an art form, But

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>here we are. Mago.

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a pattern. But the near total secrecy around

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>this review process, especially the process by which stars are

0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.000
<v Speaker 1>given and taken away, means it's kind of impossible to

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 1>know if Michelin is being fair or what other factors,

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 1>whether that's money or connections or sponsorship, is actually playing

0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 1>a role. And for diners and chefs, you really don't

0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>know if the reviews are done by people familiar with

0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:00.040
<v Speaker 1>local cuisines.

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Right right, actually on that local cuisine tip. It's worth

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>noting that even though in recent years Michelin has expanded

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.679
<v Speaker 2>coverage beyond Europe and European cooking, some have definitely criticized

0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 2>it for retaining an overly European lens that South Korea

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 2>and chef oh Ya Kwan, the guy who wanted to

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 2>give his starback you remember him, said that the entire

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Soul Guide was suspect and quote a sad joke since

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.719
<v Speaker 2>it only included one hundred and seventy of the city's restaurants. So,

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.639
<v Speaker 2>writing in Vogue Korea, one food writer explained, the only

0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.560
<v Speaker 2>people who really care about having the Michelin Guide in

0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Seoul are those who are obsessed with Soul's international status,

0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.480
<v Speaker 2>like they're obsessed with impressing Western elites. They aren't confident

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 2>that Soul can stand on its own as a restaurant capital.

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 1>So is there Michelin on other continents well.

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 2>So far, Michelin's presence in South and Latin America is

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.679
<v Speaker 2>pretty new and rather limited, and it doesn't seem aware

0:22:55.760 --> 0:23:00.200
<v Speaker 2>that Africa exists just yet. Somebody should tell them about Africa.

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.879
<v Speaker 1>I also noticed that you didn't mention Antarctica.

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a real snub, to be honest with you. But

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the research station near this one ice dome supposedly has

0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:12.880
<v Speaker 2>just the most amazing papoosas.

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.160
<v Speaker 1>So they're missing out. Well before we sign off, maybe

0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>we do a quick backup. Absolutely, how would we start

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>with the world's most remote Michelin star restaurant? This two

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:33.560
<v Speaker 1>star restaurant called Cox in Elimanok, a tiny settlement on

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Disco Bay in Greenland. The town has a population of

0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 1>fifty six, but the restaurant's staff has brought that up

0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.720
<v Speaker 1>to eighty eight now and today. It's accessible by boat

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 1>in the fall and summer, but in the winter and spring,

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 1>when icebergs clogged the bay, you can only get there

0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 1>by helicopter.

0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow, And so what can you get there?

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 1>There's a tasting menu that includes more than twenty courses

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and it costs about four hundred and seventy dollars or

0:23:57.600 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 1>thirty two hundred Danish kroner, which.

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 2>I know you didn't have to do that conversion. Yeah,

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I knew.

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:05.560
<v Speaker 1>The food is all locally sourced, and you get dishes

0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:09.720
<v Speaker 1>like raw whale skin marinated in currant leaf oil, musk

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.920
<v Speaker 1>ox broth, reindeer tartar with moss and fermented mushroom comfort food,

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and ptarmigan with black currant salsa.

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, well, speaking of one of Michelin's cheapest restaurants.

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 2>Back in two thousand and nine, the dim sum restaurant

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Tim Howan opened in Hong Kong and set the world

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.600
<v Speaker 2>on fire, and within just a year it received a

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Michelin Star, becoming the world's most inexpensive Michelin starred restaurant.

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.359
<v Speaker 2>But almost as quickly it expanded beyond its humble roots,

0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and today Tim Howan is a multi national chain with

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.280
<v Speaker 2>locations in twelve countries, including two where you live in

0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.879
<v Speaker 2>New York City, which is maybe the best way of

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>dealing with the headache of getting a star anyway. Tim

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Howan Hong Kong no longer has a Michelin Star, but

0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:00.360
<v Speaker 2>it does have the bib gourmand as a nation.

0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was actually reading about another one of these

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>cheap eats. The Michelin twenty sixteen Guide for Singapore, which

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 1>was their inaugural guide there, gave this star to a

0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:14.600
<v Speaker 1>street food hawker for the first time. The person's name

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 1>was Leo Fan and the restaurant is Hong Kong Seya

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Sauce Chicken, rice and Noodle, and it also claimed to

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 1>be the most inexpensive Michelin Star restaurant for a while.

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:28.440
<v Speaker 1>It's famous sey sauce chicken dish cost about two dollars.

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 1>But just like your chef, Tim Howan quickly used that

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 1>star to open.

0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Up a slew of franchises. Yeah, not surprising. So I

0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 2>know we talked about all these chefs trying to give

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 2>back their stars, but there are plenty who lose stars

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>and desperately want them back, including the French chef Mark Verrat.

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:50.120
<v Speaker 2>So in twenty nineteen, Verat lost this lawsuit he brought

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>against Michelin after the guide demoted his restaurant from three

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:57.159
<v Speaker 2>stars down to two. And the thing is he wasn't

0:25:57.200 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 2>actually asking for the star to be reinstated, but he

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:02.359
<v Speaker 2>was trying to get Michelin to provide the names and

0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 2>resumes of the inspectors who graded him, as well as

0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>proof that they had in fact eaten at his restaurant.

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 2>And for their part, Michelin refused, saying they had to

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:15.800
<v Speaker 2>protect their inspector's and anonemity, but that the demotion was

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:19.760
<v Speaker 2>based on one detail. Verat used English Cheddar in his

0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:24.719
<v Speaker 2>soioux flet I means just a big mistake, choose mistake.

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 2>So for his part, Verrot insisted that he had never

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>done any such thing, and in fact, he showed the

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:34.640
<v Speaker 2>court a video of the soufflet's preparation. It used two

0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>French cheeses, Beaufort and Roblachan, and Verat told CNN, I'm

0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.520
<v Speaker 2>ready to accept losing a star, but they have to

0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 2>tell me why. In my opinion, they are incompetent. Do

0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.160
<v Speaker 2>you realize they mixed up Roeblachan and Cheddar. I mean,

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:52.240
<v Speaker 2>my god, can you imagine this? So the court ruled

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 2>against Verat, saying there was no proof that he and

0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:58.520
<v Speaker 2>his business had suffered any damage from the demotion, and

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.680
<v Speaker 2>to be fair, it does feel like if you've got

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 2>the sophisticated palette of a Michelin chef, it is hard

0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:08.480
<v Speaker 2>to mix up cheddar and roblesh On, which is this soft,

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.960
<v Speaker 2>squishy cheese that kind of looks like Brie or Beaufort,

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:14.880
<v Speaker 2>which is basically a type of griere. And I feel

0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>like this is probably a conspiracy that we can investigate

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>in a different episode cheese controversies.

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, I really like that last fact, and I think

0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you today's trophy.

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's so kind of you. All Right, I'm going

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 2>to place this on Dylan's desk for all of those

0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Pillsbury dough boys to admire. That's it for today's Part

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Time Genius. If you like the show, make sure to

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.199
<v Speaker 2>tell every single person you know, seriously, every single person,

0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:41.359
<v Speaker 2>but thank you for listening.

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio.

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:59.480
<v Speaker 1>This show is hosted by Will Pearson and Me Mongaish

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:04.440
<v Speaker 1>hetique and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's

0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:07.840
<v Speaker 1>episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 1>with support from Tyler Klang.

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:10.560
<v Speaker 2>The show is.

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvel and Ali Perry,

0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>with social media support from Sasha Gay trustee Dara Potts

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and Viney Shorey. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio.

0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:27.240
<v Speaker 1>Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:46.200
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows.