1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: Guess what Mango was that? 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Well? 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: All right, well, I know you're a huge Katy Perry fan, right, 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: Well not really. Well, you're at least familiar with the 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen songs she did with Migos called Bone Appetite, 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 2: right like big One? 9 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: No, real, this is it. 10 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: We may need to do a different episode. That's fine. 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: I know it's no firework. But the whole song is 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: basically this extended metaphor. You didn't know she was into this, right, 13 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: extended metaphors where Katy Perry is describing herself as a 14 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: delicious meal in lots of creative ways, and at one 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: point in the song, she says, I'm a five star Michelin. 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 2: A five star Michelin. 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: Mango five stars is really confident. 18 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: No, it's not confident. It's ridiculous because the Micheline star 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: rating only goes up to three stars. And poor Katy 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: Perry actually didn't realize that sousicians don't fact check their songs. 21 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: I know, it's very, very disappointing. 22 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: So wait, well, why does Michelin only use three stars 23 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: and not like five or ten. 24 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: Well, the Michelin Star system is full of all kinds 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: of arbitrary, opaque, and frankly mystifying rules, and it's kind 26 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: of its whole thing. That's why they do this, and 27 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: that's what we're getting into in this episode. 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: Or in the words of Katy Perry Bonepetite. 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: I knew you were a big fan. Welcome back to 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: Part Time Genius. I'm will and as always, I'm here 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: with my good friend Mango, and somewhere behind that big 32 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: booth is our pal Dylan, who I think is trolling 33 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: us because he's decorated that booth with all these posters 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: of the I see. I think I see the Pillsbury 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: dough Boy, the Staypuff marshmallow Man, even that character from 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: what was it, Big Hero six, Big Hero six? 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: Pretty It is definitely trolling us because he's got every 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: other white puffy character from pop culture except the Michelin Man. Also, 39 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: where did he get so many Pillsburgh doble. 40 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: He's impressive. He's very into like the you know, finding 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: the sales. 42 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably where he really goes all out. 43 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: Well, I'm really excited to be doing this show together, 44 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: but I'm curious what made you think to do this 45 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: episode on Michelin Stars. 46 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: So I watched this Bradley Cooper movie on a flight. 47 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: It's called Burnt, and you've seen it, and there's this 48 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: whole thing where they're talking about how to spot these 49 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: like elite reviewers from Michelin whatever, and they come in 50 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: in pairs and order in specific ways, and I kind 51 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: of want to see how much of that was true. 52 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: So that was part of it. Plus, I know your 53 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: parents are foodies and they used to have all those 54 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: menus on their porch from restaurants. 55 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: I love it. 56 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just thought it'd be a fun topic. 57 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to dive in. So why don't we 58 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: go back to the beginning just to think about where 59 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: the name comes from. So basically, we're going way back 60 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: to eighteen eighty nine and Michelin started out as a 61 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: tire manufacturing company, which I think a lot of people know, 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: but it was the brothers Andre and Eduard Michelin, and 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: they took over their grandfather's struggling manufacturing business and they 64 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: started producing tires and they were really clever, so they 65 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: pat into this removable pneumatic bike tire. They invented the 66 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: first automobile tire, and they even made rubber train. 67 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: Tires, tires for trains. 68 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: That's supposedly why the Paris Metro used to be so quiet. 69 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: I'd never heard of this before, but just then, looking 70 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: to this, it's pretty neat and it doesn't screech like 71 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: New York's. But anyway, in eighteen eighty nine, Michelin debuts 72 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: their puffy mascot, the Michelin Man. Way back in eighteen 73 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: eighty nine. 74 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, as Dylan pointed out, looks a whole lot like 75 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: the stay puffed guy from Ghostbusters. 76 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: Yep, except he's not made of marshmallows. He's actually made 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: of tires. And apparently Michelin tires used to be white. 78 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: And one day Eduard looked at this pile of tires 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: and he was like, hey, Andre, if that pile of 80 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: tires had arms, it would look like a man. So 81 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: that's that's how this stuff comes to life. 82 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess anything's a mascot if you 83 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: put arms on it. 84 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: And they had this kind of funny concept for it. 85 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: They named their tire man Bibindam because that comes from 86 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: the Latin phrase nunc s bibindum, which means now is 87 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: the time to drink. Because then these earliest ads, if 88 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: you look at them, he's actually holding up this goblet 89 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: of nails and broken glass, because the whole concept was 90 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: they wanted to show that michelin tires were unfazed by 91 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: obstacles on the road. 92 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: So in this super weird scenario, he's drinking nails and 93 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: broken glass. 94 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: Yes, the tire man, that's what it does. 95 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: Is okay, So Michelin man is like this well fed, 96 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: indestructible bon Vivonne, the kind of guy who can eatn 97 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: drink all day and night and just keep going. 98 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: It's such as impressive. 99 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a. 100 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: Very French illustration of longevity. So anyway, in nineteen hundred, 101 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Michelin begins publishing these free travel guides to France and 102 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: eventually they make guides for other parts of Europe. And 103 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: it's a pretty smart play because Michelin's basically acting like 104 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: tourism pioneers, so they're encouraging ordinary people to take longer 105 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: and longer road trips. As you know, of course, helps 106 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: boost hire sales, and from the beginning of these tourism 107 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: road trip guys included restaurant recommendations so. 108 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: I guess these early French travelers weren't like eating handfuls 109 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: of Twizzlers or beef jerky on they. 110 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: Really missing out, really really missing out. And Michelin was 111 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: smart about their review system too. The reviews were always 112 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: conducted anonymously, and so this gave Micheline this extra layer 113 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: of credibility with customers. They weren't just handing out good 114 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: reviews to friends. Then you fast forward to nineteen twenty 115 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: six when the stars first began appearing. So this is 116 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: a quarter of a century later, but at that time 117 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: they're all awarded to restaurants in France, and so initially 118 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: they were just starred and non starred restaurants. But then 119 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties, Michelin created the three star system 120 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: that remains in place today. 121 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: So there's no real reason that it's three stars. 122 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: They just kind of decided that. I mean, they're French, 123 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: so they have to do something. It's a little different. 124 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever been to a Michelin 125 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: star restaurant, Mango a one or two or I got 126 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: a three Mango. 127 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Listen, Milo's a three star restaurant. 128 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: The fast food burger joint, I think it was two stars, 129 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 2: and still they started putting that extra nub of meat 130 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: on the paddy. It's a little bonus nub, and then 131 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: that got them to three. No, actually I don't think 132 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: they have any stars mego. 133 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: So I think what's funny about the whole Michelin Star 134 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: thing is how vague the distinctions are between sort of 135 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: the one, two and three star establishments. 136 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? 137 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: So apparently one Michelin Star is award to restaurants using 138 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: top quality ingredients, where dishes with these distinct flavors are 139 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: prepared to a consistently high standard. 140 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds good. 141 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally sounds good. And then two Michelin Stars 142 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: are awarded when the personality and talent of the chef 143 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: are evident in these expertly crafted dishes and their food 144 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: is refined and inspired. 145 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: M hm also sounds good, m H. 146 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: And three Michelin Stars, the highest award, is given for 147 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: the superlative cooking of chefs at the peak of their profession. 148 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: The cooking is to an art form, and some of 149 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: their dishes are destined to become classics. 150 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: That also sounds good. 151 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: Mengo system, that's the things they all sound good, I mean, 152 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: and they also kind of sound the same, right, like 153 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: like one star is good, two stars is more good, 154 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: and three stars is just like more and more good. 155 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: Seriously, it's good. 156 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So how do you eat a meal and decide 157 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: that the food is refined and inspired versus you know, 158 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: a meal that's an art form? Right? How do they 159 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: even make these judgments? 160 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you asked that, mango. 161 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like I set you off. 162 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: So the judging is done by anonymous Michelin inspectors, all 163 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: of whom work full time and have prior restaurant and 164 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: hospitality experience. Multiple inspectors dine at a restaurant under consideration, 165 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: and then they talk about these ratings together, so it's 166 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: not just one person that's passing judgment on a place 167 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: after a single meal. Inspectors visit multiple times for different 168 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: meals with the goal of experiencing the full range of 169 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: the menu. So it's a really thorough process. And Michigan 170 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: claims there is quote no sek mathematical formula and that 171 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: decor degree of formality, type of cuisine, like all of 172 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: that that they really don't matter. Of course, there are 173 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: five specific criteria the judges used to award stars. So 174 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: here they are. The first is quality the ingredients, the 175 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: second is the harmony of flavors. Then you have the 176 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: mastery of culinary techniques. Fourth is the personality of the 177 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: chef is expressed through their cuisine. And then the fifth 178 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: is consistency of the above but across the entire menu 179 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: and over time. And it's worth mentioning. There's also this 180 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: thing called the bib Gourmand designation and it's given to 181 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: the most affordable restaurants that offer high value for the money. 182 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: And I have wondered this before because you'll notice this 183 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: in cities. Sometimes it'll be like a diner or something 184 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: like that that'll end up with a Michelin Star. I 185 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: do think that's pretty cool that thinks they think about 186 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: it this way. But all of this judging has done 187 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: completely anonymously, and that just actually seems crazy to me, Like, 188 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: I don't understand how these inspectors could keep their identity 189 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: a secret if they're hopping around to all the world's 190 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: best restaurants multiple times a year. 191 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's exactly the part I wanted to dig into. 192 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: So why don't we tackle that after. 193 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: A break sounds good. Welcome back to part time Genius, 194 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: where we're talking about Michelin stars and why chefs are 195 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: so darn thirsty for them. So Megel, I think you 196 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: were just about to tell us how the food criticism 197 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: at Michelin works. 198 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: That's right. So in two thousand and nine, The New 199 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: Yorker published this profile of a New York inspector and 200 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: it's super fun and cloak and dagger. The inspector's pseudonym 201 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: was Maxine, and the first really interesting thing is that 202 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: she said most Michelin executives don't even know who the 203 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: inspectors are. 204 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 205 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: In fact, inspectors are told to keep their work secret 206 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: from their friends and even from their parents. 207 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: I have to be honest, I don't think I could 208 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: keep that secret from my parents. 209 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I feel like Bill and Paulett would 210 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: definitely be dining with you and bringing everyone boxes of 211 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: fancy leftovers. But Maxine revealed that she ate restaurant meals 212 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: about two hundred days per year, dinner and lunch, and 213 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: almost always alone, because inspectors really can't risk being identified 214 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: through conversations at the table. 215 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: I love eating out, and I love eating out at 216 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: good restaurants, but two hundred days a year I have 217 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 2: to and especially like by yourself most of the time. 218 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 2: That kind of seems like torture. 219 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: I know. It's almost like work travel, Like as a kid, 220 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: you think it's going to be so exciting, like on 221 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: the road in hotels and stuff, and then you do 222 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: it for a few months and it kind of loses 223 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: the charm. But at Michelin, the system is almost set 224 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: up like this secret service. So Maxine said when she 225 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: was being considered for the job, she had to eat 226 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: several meals under supervision of inspectors who operated like spies. 227 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: And this is her quote. You never know the name 228 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: of the person you're meeting. You never know where their 229 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: meeting until right before, so they call you up and 230 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: say meet me at the corner of XYZ and. 231 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: Xyz, so dramatic, like you kind of forget for a second, 232 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: we're talking about food, Like it seems like a national 233 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: security thing, but it's really like who has the best 234 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: pork belly. 235 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And aspiring inspectors also have to attend a secret 236 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: Michelin training course in France, and then they have to 237 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: complete all this additional still anonymous training in another country, 238 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: and then they do a three to six month still 239 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: very anonymous apprenticeship with a more senior inspector. So another 240 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: anonymous inspector from a twenty seventeen Food and Wine article 241 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: did shed a little bit of light on what happens here. 242 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: He said, we always order three courses, an appetizer and 243 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: entree and dessert, and we try to pick items that 244 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: are the best representation of the menu concept or chef's talents. 245 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: But of course, despite Michelin's best efforts, in December two 246 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: thousand and three, there was this big tell all. 247 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: I was hoping you would get to a tell all. 248 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, you kind of have to hope for it. So 249 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: this book comes out from this inspector in Pascal Remy, 250 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: who was fired after revealing that he'd kept a diary 251 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: of his career, and he planned to publish this book. 252 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: And so the book is called The Inspector Sits Down 253 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: at the Table, and it was published in France in 254 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: April two thousand and four, and it caused a huge stir. 255 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: One journalist from France called it a storm and a 256 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: saucepan A storm. 257 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: I kind of love that. 258 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, right, It's also a good description of Ruby, 259 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: but Remy alleged some pretty wild stuff in this book, 260 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: all of which Michelin disputes. He said that despite publishing 261 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: new guides with updated ratings every year, Michelin didn't actually 262 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: visit or revisit every restaurant annually, which is a huge 263 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: scandal right in part because there aren't enough inspectors. Remy 264 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: wrote that there were only five inspectors in all of 265 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: France as of two thousand and three when he was writing, 266 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: which is not nearly enough to cover the country's ten 267 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: thousand restaurants. He also said there's some three star restaurants 268 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: which were secretly deemed untouchable, so like, under no circumstance 269 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: could they lose their talk rating, even though Remi claimed 270 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: more than a third of the guide's three star rated 271 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: establishments didn't actually meet the three star criteria. 272 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 2: I feel like that's a really bad look for a 273 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: rating system that's supposed to be, you know, super objective 274 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: and impartial for this whole history of its existence. But 275 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 2: when you have something like a Michelin star that sought 276 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: after and means so much to these restaurants, there's definitely 277 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: going to be some fallout from this. 278 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: So what are you thinking about right now. 279 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 2: Well, for example, obviously, getting a Michelin star can catapult 280 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 2: a restaurant into fame in many cases bring these huge profits. 281 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: But losing a star, and I'd not really thought about 282 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: this before, but it can bring just the opposite of 283 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: that effect. So Thornton's at the Fitzwilliam Hotel, a high 284 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: end Dublin restaurant, lost its Michelin star back in twenty fifteen, 285 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: and it maintained this star for two decades, and when 286 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: it did, profits dropped by seventy six percent by the 287 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: end of twenty sixteen. Yeah, and actually the place ended 288 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: up having to close after that. And as the chef, 289 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: Kevin Thornton told The Irish Independent, losing the star felt 290 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: like quote getting stabbed in the heart. I mean, it 291 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: means so much to these people. In fact, one chef, 292 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 2: Bernard Laisseau, was so terrified of losing his three Micheline 293 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: stars that it may have actually contributed to his two 294 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: thousand and three suicide. 295 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: That's really terrible. 296 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. I mean he'd been running this 297 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: Burgundy restaurant called Le Couteur, where he had actually gotten 298 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: a third Michelin star in nineteen ninety one. But in 299 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 2: two thousand and three, this French newspaper Le Figaro published 300 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: this rumor and claimed that he was slated to lose 301 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: his third star, and his widow told The Observer that 302 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: the rumor had a real impact on her husband because 303 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: he feared that losing a star would have these devastating 304 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: financial consequences. But one of the saddest parts of the 305 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: story is after his death, the two thousand and three 306 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: Michelin Guide gave the restaurant its usual three stars. That 307 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: is so sad, it really is. But it's not just 308 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: losing a star that can have negative consequences for a restaurant. 309 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: Even getting a star can throw a place into turmoil. 310 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: So it's an example of that. After being listed in 311 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen Hong Kong Guide, there was this dessert 312 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: shop called Kai Kai Dessert that was forced to move 313 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: because its landlord got greedy and thinking that it would 314 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: bring this new spike in business, he raised the rent 315 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: by one hundred and twenty percent, which is awful. Yeah, 316 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: the owners did get lucky though. There was this loyal 317 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 2: customer that offered them rent in a nearby space at 318 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: a rent that he could afford, but the Michelin Star 319 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: branding can be especially tough on small establishments that don't 320 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: have the capital or the capacity to meet this sudden 321 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: demand that comes with a rating. Like seventy two year 322 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: old Jafi, who earned a Michelin Star in twenty seventeen 323 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: for her cooking at an open air street food restaurant 324 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: in Bangkok. So the award made her this overnight celebrity, 325 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: which is great, but she was one of only seventeen 326 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: chefs in Thailand with a star, and a few months 327 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: later she actually told a reporter she wanted who give 328 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: the star back? 329 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: Can you actually give a starback? 330 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: Not really? But if I explain that her restaurant's vibes 331 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: had been super relaxed before and the star had basically 332 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: turned it into chaos, I actually feel like I've experienced 333 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: this before at restaurants when they seem so good and 334 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: suddenly they gained this notoriety and that experience has just 335 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: changed totally. So the award made her this overnight celebrity. 336 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: She was the only person cooking, so suddenly there was 337 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: this increase in traffic, and it meant she no longer 338 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: had time to take breaks or chat with their diners 339 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: that were there, and her servers were overwhelmed from the 340 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: stress and just worry that neighbors on their street were 341 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: going to get angry because of the crowds and the noise. 342 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: But the worst part was that Jay Fi had all 343 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 2: these tax inspectors that started showing up seemingly because they 344 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: thought she must be making more money than she had reported, 345 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: and they kept trying to look through her books. 346 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: So is jay the only chef who's tried to give 347 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: these stars back? Have you heard more? 348 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: Not even close? So there's this South Korean chef oh 349 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: Ya Kwan got an Italian eatery called Restaurante O, and 350 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 2: it received a Michelin star in twenty seventeen. It was 351 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: a guide to soul dining there and O claims that 352 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: as soon as he learned this, he contacted Michelin and 353 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: asked to be removed, but it unfortunately didn't work for him, 354 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: and his restaurant appeared again in twenty eighteen with a star. 355 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I guess there's another way, right, he 356 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: could just try to lower the quality of the food 357 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: theirs out, But I mean, I guess that's not anything 358 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: any self respecting chef wants to do well. 359 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: In the twenty nineteen edition, oh actually did lose the star, 360 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 2: but he still appeared in the guide, at which point 361 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 2: he actually sued Michelin, not for the demotion, but for 362 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: including his restaurant at all. There was this CNN interview 363 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: that he did and he explained that the guide's methodology 364 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: was part of the problem. It's the cruelest test in 365 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: the world, he says. It forces the chefs to work 366 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: around a year waiting for a test, and they don't 367 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 2: know when and it's coming. 368 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I do love that there's this rating system 369 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: to help guide me as this outsider, especially in cities 370 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: that I don't know. But you can see how it's 371 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: hard on chefs. And also there have been strange stories 372 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: that make you question the objectivity and fairness of the organization, 373 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: like apparently Michelin inspectors are supposed to visit a restaurant 374 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: several times before they raid it, but in two thousand 375 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: and five, for the first time in history, Michelin was 376 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: actually forced to recall one of its guides. The two 377 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: thousand and five guide covering Belgium, the Netherlands in Luxembourg 378 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: was pulled after fifty thousand copies had already been published, 379 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: and the reason was that this Belgian restaurant, the Austin Queen, 380 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: had been given that bib Gorman designation, you know, the 381 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: one for like great cheap food, but the restaurant hadn't 382 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: actually opened yet loops. So you know, there's also this 383 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: issue of investors in the Michelin Guide. The whole thing 384 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: is a really expensive enterprise, and so like you're talking 385 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: about these big tabs from fine dining restaurants plus printing 386 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: up the actual guide. So some Michelin guides are the 387 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: result of investments from the countries themselves. Michelin guides to 388 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: Thailand and Singapore and Hong Kong are actually backed in 389 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: part by payments from the local tourism boards, which totally 390 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: makes sense, but the sums are pretty impressive. Like Thailand 391 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: paid supposedly four point four million dollars to be paid 392 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: out over the course of five years to fund like 393 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: multiple editions of the Michelin Thailand Guide. 394 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: That is a lot of money. 395 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, and corporate sponsors can get involved too, Like to 396 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: launch the Hong Kong Guide in two thousand and eight, 397 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: Michelin got funding from several brands including Evian Espresso, Robert 398 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: Parker Wine Advocate, which Michelin owns a stake in, And 399 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: while the details are kind of scarce, it kind of 400 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: makes it hard to verify if government or corporate money 401 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: is influencing Michelin Stars, and if they are, what extent 402 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: are they actually having their influence? Met? 403 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I have to guess this is not zero. 404 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the website Eater connected some of the 405 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: dots for Michelin Singapore g and so there's this Resorts 406 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: World Sentosa and they acted as a title sponsor the 407 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: guide and hosted this invitation only gala for the launch 408 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: of the twenty sixteen Singapore Stars Guide and after that 409 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: for the resort's restaurants also happened to snag seven of 410 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: those coveted Stars, So, I. 411 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: Mean it could be a coincidence. Probably not. 412 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: There's also been an issue with Michelin and greenwashing. So 413 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, Michelin added a new designation to the 414 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: Stars and the bib Gourmond and they call it the 415 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: Green Star. Supposedly it honors quote restaurants that are role 416 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: models when it comes to sustainable astronomy. 417 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: So what exactly does that mean? 418 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it sounds great, but it's pretty unclear 419 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: what it actually indicates. So there's this chef Chris Polisi 420 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: who wrote in this deleted blog now that the Green 421 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: Star review process consisted of one brief call to his restaurant. 422 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: There wasn't an in person audit or a detailed questionnaire, 423 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: and as he put it, there wasn't even quote a 424 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: critical question of any type. And then there's this other chef, 425 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: Matt Orlando, who agreed, and he told Wired there was 426 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: absolutely no fact checking during his Green Star review. I 427 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: could have said anything and it would have qualified. 428 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: Me for their ward. I'm just shocked by this. 429 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: So Michelin says, our teams rely both on their field work, 430 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: i e. On the experience of eating in that restaurant, 431 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: as well as in depth research and conversations with restaurant 432 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: tours regarding their eco responsible practices. So that's their defense. 433 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 2: I actually didn't think we could get more vague than 434 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: refined and inspired versus elevated to an art form, But 435 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: here we are. Mago. 436 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pattern. But the near total secrecy around 437 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: this review process, especially the process by which stars are 438 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: given and taken away, means it's kind of impossible to 439 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: know if Michelin is being fair or what other factors, 440 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: whether that's money or connections or sponsorship, is actually playing 441 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: a role. And for diners and chefs, you really don't 442 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: know if the reviews are done by people familiar with 443 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: local cuisines. 444 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: Right right, actually on that local cuisine tip. It's worth 445 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: noting that even though in recent years Michelin has expanded 446 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 2: coverage beyond Europe and European cooking, some have definitely criticized 447 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: it for retaining an overly European lens that South Korea 448 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 2: and chef oh Ya Kwan, the guy who wanted to 449 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: give his starback you remember him, said that the entire 450 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: Soul Guide was suspect and quote a sad joke since 451 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 2: it only included one hundred and seventy of the city's restaurants. So, 452 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: writing in Vogue Korea, one food writer explained, the only 453 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: people who really care about having the Michelin Guide in 454 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 2: Seoul are those who are obsessed with Soul's international status, 455 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: like they're obsessed with impressing Western elites. They aren't confident 456 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: that Soul can stand on its own as a restaurant capital. 457 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: So is there Michelin on other continents well. 458 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 2: So far, Michelin's presence in South and Latin America is 459 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 2: pretty new and rather limited, and it doesn't seem aware 460 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 2: that Africa exists just yet. Somebody should tell them about Africa. 461 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: I also noticed that you didn't mention Antarctica. 462 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: It's a real snub, to be honest with you. But 463 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: the research station near this one ice dome supposedly has 464 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 2: just the most amazing papoosas. 465 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: So they're missing out. Well before we sign off, maybe 466 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: we do a quick backup. Absolutely, how would we start 467 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: with the world's most remote Michelin star restaurant? This two 468 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: star restaurant called Cox in Elimanok, a tiny settlement on 469 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: Disco Bay in Greenland. The town has a population of 470 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: fifty six, but the restaurant's staff has brought that up 471 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: to eighty eight now and today. It's accessible by boat 472 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: in the fall and summer, but in the winter and spring, 473 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: when icebergs clogged the bay, you can only get there 474 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: by helicopter. 475 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: Wow, And so what can you get there? 476 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: There's a tasting menu that includes more than twenty courses 477 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: and it costs about four hundred and seventy dollars or 478 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: thirty two hundred Danish kroner, which. 479 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 2: I know you didn't have to do that conversion. Yeah, 480 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 2: I knew. 481 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: The food is all locally sourced, and you get dishes 482 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: like raw whale skin marinated in currant leaf oil, musk 483 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: ox broth, reindeer tartar with moss and fermented mushroom comfort food, 484 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: and ptarmigan with black currant salsa. 485 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well, speaking of one of Michelin's cheapest restaurants. 486 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: Back in two thousand and nine, the dim sum restaurant 487 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: Tim Howan opened in Hong Kong and set the world 488 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: on fire, and within just a year it received a 489 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: Michelin Star, becoming the world's most inexpensive Michelin starred restaurant. 490 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: But almost as quickly it expanded beyond its humble roots, 491 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: and today Tim Howan is a multi national chain with 492 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: locations in twelve countries, including two where you live in 493 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: New York City, which is maybe the best way of 494 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: dealing with the headache of getting a star anyway. Tim 495 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: Howan Hong Kong no longer has a Michelin Star, but 496 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: it does have the bib gourmand as a nation. 497 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually reading about another one of these 498 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: cheap eats. The Michelin twenty sixteen Guide for Singapore, which 499 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: was their inaugural guide there, gave this star to a 500 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: street food hawker for the first time. The person's name 501 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: was Leo Fan and the restaurant is Hong Kong Seya 502 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: Sauce Chicken, rice and Noodle, and it also claimed to 503 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: be the most inexpensive Michelin Star restaurant for a while. 504 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: It's famous sey sauce chicken dish cost about two dollars. 505 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: But just like your chef, Tim Howan quickly used that 506 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: star to open. 507 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: Up a slew of franchises. Yeah, not surprising. So I 508 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 2: know we talked about all these chefs trying to give 509 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: back their stars, but there are plenty who lose stars 510 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: and desperately want them back, including the French chef Mark Verrat. 511 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: So in twenty nineteen, Verat lost this lawsuit he brought 512 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: against Michelin after the guide demoted his restaurant from three 513 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 2: stars down to two. And the thing is he wasn't 514 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: actually asking for the star to be reinstated, but he 515 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: was trying to get Michelin to provide the names and 516 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: resumes of the inspectors who graded him, as well as 517 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: proof that they had in fact eaten at his restaurant. 518 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: And for their part, Michelin refused, saying they had to 519 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 2: protect their inspector's and anonemity, but that the demotion was 520 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: based on one detail. Verat used English Cheddar in his 521 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,719 Speaker 2: soioux flet I means just a big mistake, choose mistake. 522 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: So for his part, Verrot insisted that he had never 523 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: done any such thing, and in fact, he showed the 524 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 2: court a video of the soufflet's preparation. It used two 525 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 2: French cheeses, Beaufort and Roblachan, and Verat told CNN, I'm 526 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: ready to accept losing a star, but they have to 527 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: tell me why. In my opinion, they are incompetent. Do 528 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 2: you realize they mixed up Roeblachan and Cheddar. I mean, 529 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: my god, can you imagine this? So the court ruled 530 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: against Verat, saying there was no proof that he and 531 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 2: his business had suffered any damage from the demotion, and 532 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: to be fair, it does feel like if you've got 533 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: the sophisticated palette of a Michelin chef, it is hard 534 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 2: to mix up cheddar and roblesh On, which is this soft, 535 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: squishy cheese that kind of looks like Brie or Beaufort, 536 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: which is basically a type of griere. And I feel 537 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: like this is probably a conspiracy that we can investigate 538 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: in a different episode cheese controversies. 539 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: Well, I really like that last fact, and I think 540 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you today's trophy. 541 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 2: Oh that's so kind of you. All Right, I'm going 542 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: to place this on Dylan's desk for all of those 543 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: Pillsbury dough boys to admire. That's it for today's Part 544 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: Time Genius. If you like the show, make sure to 545 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: tell every single person you know, seriously, every single person, 546 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: but thank you for listening. 547 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 548 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and Me Mongaish 549 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: hetique and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's 550 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan 551 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. 552 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: The show is. 553 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: Executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvel and Ali Perry, 554 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: with social media support from Sasha Gay trustee Dara Potts 555 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: and Viney Shorey. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 556 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 557 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.