WEBVTT - The Scary World of EVMs, Part One 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:07.680 Get in Tech of Technology with tech Stuff from stuff 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:13.600 works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.640 I am your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm full of them 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.800 and Vigger. And that's because, unlike almost all other episodes 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.720 I'm in, I'm actually joined in the studio by the 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.920 physical being of another human, and it happens to be 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:32.960 a human with whom I get along. It is Ben 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.120 Bowlen from Stuffing I Want you to Know and car 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.279 Stuff joining once again. Thank you Ben for being here. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.199 Hey Jonathan, thanks for having me on this show. And 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.000 hello tech Stuff audience. I was really excited when you 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.720 brought up this topic and asked if I if I 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.960 want to hang out with you on it. However, before 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.040 we go any further, I've got to ask, are you 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.760 okay man that in true is getting a little weird? Um, 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.600 it's been a long week. Then it's been a long week, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.840 and it's been a weird day. This this day did 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.400 not unfold the way we first imagined it would, or 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.839 at least not for me. Uh. And also I figured 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.640 that I needed to be really like up and upbeat 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.279 and excited and happy before we go into this topic, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:23.240 because I guarantee you it cannot sustain itself. As we 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.959 talk about this. Also, you're gonna hear some papers being 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.920 shuffled around, folks, And that's because my computer decided that 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.080 it was no longer going to connect to the wireless 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.440 network once I took it away from my docking station. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.640 I think I figured out what the sequence of events 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.000 was that caused it to do, yeah, which largely involves 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:45.760 being docked, removing the wire WiFi, turning the WiFi adapter 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.880 off because I was getting blips, and then removing it 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.560 from the docking station without enacting you know, without enabling 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.520 the WiFi again. And now it won't do anything. So 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.919 I just turned the computer off and I'm used paper notes, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:06.600 which I understand are a thing and sometimes how apropos, 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:11.720 my friend, because sometimes people will argue that, UH, using 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:17.799 paper based documentation is more efficient or at least less 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.400 prone to error than electronic documentation, such as you know, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.320 notes we might share on a laptop. Well, it's certainly 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.520 UH fixes things in a more permanent form, right, because 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.760 with electronic files. I don't know if you know this, Ben, 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.840 but you can sometimes go in and change stuff. But 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.600 if you've printed something on a piece of paper, it's 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.680 a lot harder to change the thing you print it 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.840 on the piece of paper without it being noticeable. Now 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.520 you can change it in electronic format and print a 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:51.200 new thing. Yeah, I don't wish to bamboos all you. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.640 I am no flim flam man um. So yeah, today 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.800 we're specifically talking and you know from the title of 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.480 the podcast, we're talking about voting machines today, electronic voting 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:08.400 machines specifically, and what it is about electronic voting machines 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:14.360 that have certain people kind of talking about security, transparency, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.520 that kind of stuff. And here in the US we 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:22.400 are hurtling towards an election, uh, kicking and screaming all 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.160 the way, as is typical every few years in the US, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.560 I mean, especially when it's a presidential election, which we 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.160 have every four years. And so I thought it was 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.120 really important for us to kind of talk about this, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.520 and of course ben as a host of stuff they 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.040 don't want you to know. There are a lot of 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.520 conspiracy theories that surround voting in general, not just electronic 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.080 voting machines, but the whole process. Yeah, yeah, it's true. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.280 There are a there are quite a few things that 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.600 would be called conspiracy theories. There are also quite a 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:58.800 few very valid criticisms are observation about the nature of 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.800 the voting system, everything from the nuts and bolts of 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:07.160 the technology, to the way technology disrupts existing legislative systems, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.320 to just the organizational stuff. You know, the question that 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.480 a lot of a lot of you guys probably have 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.040 out their ladies and gentlemen is stuff like why was 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.600 Ross Perro the last third party candidate to make it 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.600 to the you know, the big kids table of debates 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:30.080 right actually and actually getting put onto ballots on most states. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.080 Or another great question that I hear all the time 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.920 is why the heck do we still have an electoral 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.120 college if we've if we've evolved beyond the point where 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.720 a bunch of very wealthy white landowners have decided that 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.880 really we shouldn't give complete control to the HOI ploy 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:49.840 when it comes to picking our leaders. We should have 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:55.040 a protective layer in between the dirty masses and the 0:04:55.200 --> 0:05:01.040 enlightened leaders. The quote Titian can't even appreciate a coup movement, Julie, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:07.520 that's true. Yes, uh, here about recognize the the esteemed 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.640 representative from the state of Virginia. Um, yeah, that's A, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.279 that's okay. So that's a that's a great point. And 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.120 before we get too far into it, one of the 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:26.599 most salient or applicable quote unquote conspiracy theories about elections 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:31.320 revolves around the idea that elections have been fixed retroactively 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:38.039 or miscounted, whether intentionally or accidentally by a machine or 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.800 the people in charge of the software running the machine. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.760 I mean, these are are big questions and we're gonna 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.320 talk about all of those. And in order to really 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.680 get a full understanding of where we are today, I 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.440 think it always helps to have a quick rundown of 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.040 how we got to where we are, right. I love 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.400 to do this on tech stuff, where even if I'm 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.640 going to talk about specific technology, I tend to go 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.280 back and say, well, here's here's how we got there historically. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.839 Um So, voting has been around for a really long time, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.039 whether whether you're talking about like from an official capacity, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.320 like you go back to like the Greeks and they're 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.320 they're voting, or you just talk about you know, small 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.240 groups deciding where they're gonna you know, what animal were 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.120 we going to kill for tonight's meal? We had we 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:27.840 had mastered on last night come on, let's let's branch out. Um. 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:33.159 But well before Survivor ever took to the airwaves, we've 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:38.000 had voting, and for a long time we would tabulate 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.320 these votes manually. You just have someone who would either 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.680 just count up all the votes, if you did some 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:44.880 sort of voting like through stones like the White Stone 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.400 or the Black Stone to vote on something, or very 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.680 often voting was done in public where you didn't there 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.239 was no secret ballot, You declared your vote in front 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.080 of people, which yeah, and that, um, I mean it 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.000 clearly has some manages in the sense that you have 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.360 verifiable votes, right, it has some disadvantages in that if 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.040 you hold an unpopular opinion in your particular region, you 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.160 might find yourself ostracized from the larger community because you've 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.960 voiced that a target. Yes. Yes, I actually had a 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.760 conversation with someone this morning about how uh they they 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.360 had suggested we moved to h a time where we 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.320 would be able to assigned votes to specific people so 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.560 that for verification purposes, and I said, that's a terrible idea. 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.240 And the reason it's terrible is because it favors the 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.320 majority and it punishes the minority. Right, if you are 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.400 in the minority opinion and you vote your conscience. Like 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.160 you you are not going to be cowed into voting 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.080 the majority just because all these other people want you to. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.680 Then you stand, you know, victim. You're you're vulnerable to 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.600 the majority who may punish you for your choice to 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.800 uh to vote your conscience, and or you might just 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.800 feel pressured to change your vote so that you keep 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.240 your you, yourself and your family safe. So secret ballots 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.920 I think are really important. They actually came officially to 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:21.280 the scene pretty late, especially when you're talking about standardized ballots. 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.040 Those didn't become a thing until the mid nineteenth century. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.200 So eighteen fifty six was when we saw the first 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:33.320 standardized ballots, meaning ballots issued by the government with the 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:38.599 candidates arranged in whatever order they had deemed was appropriate. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.600 I don't know if they went alphabetically or how they 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.800 arranged it, but the government had come to a decision 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.400 on here's how we're going to present the ballot. Um 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.360 it's standard for everybody. And that government was Australia, so 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.560 it wasn't the UK. Of course, it wasn't the U 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.960 S which a lot of people would assume. Yeah, now 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.520 there had been secret ballots in both the UK and 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.720 the U s US. But this was a standardized approach, which, yeah, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.199 this is where you're saying everyone's getting the same sheet 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.960 of paper to vote on, as opposed to if you 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:12.640 went into a voting precinct to one part of the 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.200 United States for let's say the presidential election, and then 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.640 went to a voting precinct in a totally different state, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.840 the ballots could look dramatically different from one another and 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:26.200 have a have completely different presentation. Like you could just imagine, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.560 let's say that you're going through a corrupt precinct and 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.280 the candidate that they all want to win is a nice, big, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.320 bold print, and then the other candidates are in teeny 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.720 tiny print and you can barely see them Like that 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.720 would be unfair, obviously, you would say, like, I detect 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.720 a sense of bias. So this was Australia in the 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.480 mid ninete century. I guess then the best way to 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.679 organize the candidates would be by their crime in alphabetical order. 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.720 So sorry, as always, as always we love to poke 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.160 fund at Australia for getting its start as a as 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.800 a as a penal colony. Well, I mean, clearly the 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.880 Aborigines have been there forever. But but you know, from 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.560 the European standpoint, Hey, but before we get too cocky, Ben, 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.480 we live in Georgia, a state that was a penal colony. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.680 Do we get a pass for that because we because 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.160 because Georgia was a debtor's prison essentially. If you've ever 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.800 been in Georgia you can understand how how when Europeans 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.360 got here, they first thought, yeah, this is where we 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.640 want to put bad people. So so the the Australian 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:35.720 state would create these out of I guess taxpayer money. Yep, yeah, 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.800 it was and that was a big deal, right, like 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.040 the decision that because anything the government does, you know, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.000 any product that they're going to make, any anything they produce, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.440 the money for that comes from taxes. That's where governments 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.240 get their money. So you know, you're not going to 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.880 the Australian government gift shop and buying a whole bunch 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.920 of T shirts and that money goes to making making ballots. Uh. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.080 But once this was established, then it quickly caught Uh. 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.040 I was gonna say caught fire, but that's hard to 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.760 talk about when you're talking about paper ballots. It got popular, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.640 um I was adopted throughout the world. And so by 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.280 the late nineteenth century, it's late eighteen hundreds, inventors, yeah, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.360 just a couple of decades later. Inventors were already beginning 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:25.640 to experiment with ways to create machines for voting, things 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.800 like using punch cards so that you could tabulate the 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.440 data really quickly. And you know, because especially as populations 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.560 grow and as you open up the vote to more 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.360 eligible voters, as you make more people eligible, you know, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.560 keep in mind, this is the same period where we 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:48.600 start to see uh, various minority populations end up getting 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.000 the right to vote. That increases your voting population. We 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.080 see women get the right to vote, that increases your 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.800 voting population. Being able to count those votes quickly becomes 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.680 really important because you don't want to hold up like 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.120 you don't want to everyone waiting, Like we voted three 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:05.880 weeks ago. When are we going to find out who won? 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.800 You don't want that to happen. So there were a 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.920 lot of experiments in ways to tabulate votes more quickly, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.880 and also the idea was that this would be more 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.840 reliable than a human like less likely to make an error, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.280 less prone to uh, less prone to a user error 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.120 or or fraud or fraud. You know, you can't bribe 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.680 a tabulation machine to give you incorrect results. You could 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:34.080 program it to do that, but we'll get into that later. Um. Now, 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.800 even though people were working on it in the late 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.440 eighteen hundreds, it would be another half century before you 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.520 actually started to see some of these punch card systems 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.760 make their way into voting booths. Uh, it just wasn't 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.280 ready yet. Um. And then we get into the first 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.160 actual voting machines, and we get to a man by 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.599 the name of Henry W. Sprat. It sounds like a 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.720 like a limi he is or he was. Can I 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.160 say limey on the air? That? Okay? I mean we 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.960 can beep it out. It's just gonna sound like I 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.880 said something works the English Blackguard. Um. He was an 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.600 Englishman and he received a U. S. Patent for a 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.760 push button voting machine back in eighteen seventy five. And 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.439 so imagine that you have a column of buttons, okay, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.560 and each button corresponds to a choice for a vote, 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.880 for a single vote. Now, it's just a column, or 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.120 it could be arranged as a row. It depends on 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.960 how you built it. But it's a single row or 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.320 a single column. And you might have three buttons that 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.040 are activated because you have three choices that you could 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.760 choose from. You would choose and then that's it. You 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.760 only had that one that one option because uh, it 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.679 only had the one row or the one column. So 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:49.920 so you like in other words, like when we go 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.880 in for an election, frequently we have multiple uh positions 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.880 or or issues that we're voting on, not just the 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.720 president or maybe a state rep or as state senator, 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:07.240 but also uh controller uh well, and then and people 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.200 in the actual House of Representatives in the U. S. Senate. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.240 So you've had multiple positions that could be open. Well, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.760 you would need to have multiple rows or multiple columns 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.760 so that you could make that kind of vote. And 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.160 in fact we did see those follow but in eighteen 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.720 seventy five we saw that first push button patent um 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:31.120 that in several variations that follow. We're all purely mechanical devices, 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.560 so no electricity here. These are all working from like 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:41.600 levers and joints and hinges, and so it's actual just 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.000 pure mechanical action, which is great, um, but also problematic 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.400 because things can break down, things can jam. Like if 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.120 you've ever used an old typewriter, sometimes you know the 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.800 keys can jam, same sort of thing could happen. I mean, 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.400 especially with the more complex voting machines, more moving parts 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.440 creates just simply more opportunities for something to go wrong, exactly, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.920 more points of failure. Yeah, and so uh one of 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.600 my favorite inventions that came out fairly early was a 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.040 lever that you would pull in order to close the 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.560 curtain behind you. Know, Ben, I didn't even ask you this, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.480 but uh, have you for all of your voting experiences, 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.800 have you only used the direct recording type the computer 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.320 monitor types, or have you ever used a voting booth 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.800 like I had used a booth very very early in 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.600 my political career. Yeah, which I think voting will count 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:34.760 as my political careers, say, before you burnt all the 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.960 bridges and before I burned the bridges and became an 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.480 inspiration for several characters in the House of Cards. Uh. Yeah, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.680 I I was in the very early days before this 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:51.040 was institute. I did get to experience like the older 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.920 paper based voting I I did. Um, I did the 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.360 old lever machine that used to be that used to 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.720 be in Georgia. But foo, I'll talk about that more 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.480 in a second. But um, the way that they that 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.000 they typically would work because this once this innovation was introduced, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.000 it was adopted pretty much universally. Uh. You would have 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.480 a lever that you would use to close the curtain 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.000 behind you, and only then would the other levers become 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.560 active where you would be able to cast your vote. 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.040 So it was great because it meant that you were 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.280 pretty confident that your vote would be done secretly. No 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.320 one's going to look in on you, because before you 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.200 could even get started, you had to close the curtain. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.200 You didn't have an option to vote with the curtain open. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.840 And Uh, typically the way it would work is that 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.760 there'd be a mechanism that would just lock all the 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.200 other levers in place until that curtain lever was activated. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.880 And yeah, it was really ingenious. Was again pretty simple. 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.280 Even when you get to electro mechanical voting booths later on, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.200 it's still followed the same principle, And I thought that 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.840 was really neat. Now, those voting booths were and incredibly heavy, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.040 uh and complex, and like I said, they would break 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.480 down occasionally, which obviously that's a problem. They sound positively 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.840 steam punk if we're being honest. Yeah, if you were 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.760 to ever like look in the back of one. You 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.600 would be pretty impressed. It would look kind of like 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.320 a piano got in the fight with you know, like 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.159 a copper store or something. It was pretty cool. That 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.680 is such a beautiful description. That might be your best 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:22.280 writing this week. Well, like a piano with a store. Yeah, 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.119 and then you that's you got a lever action voting machine. Uh. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.800 In eighteen eighty one, Anthony C. Baroneck received a U 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:31.919 S patent for a push button voting machine that was 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.560 more suited for American elections. This one had the multiple 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.600 rows and column so it was more advanced than than sprats. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.200 And then in eighteen eighty nine, Jacob H. Myers patented 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.000 the first lever voting machine also known as a direct 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.040 recording vote machine, which use mechanical levers to indicate votes 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.280 and results were counted by the machine itself and then 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.119 what would happen is he would record the results. A 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.679 human being would record the results from each machine for 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:01.440 it to be UH tabulated in the grand totals. Um 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.639 and Myers had said that the approach had major advantages 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.240 over older methods and that it could prevent ballot stuffing 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.520 because each person could only use the machine once before 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.560 it had to be reset, so you couldn't vote and 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.720 then just go ahead and vote again and vote again, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:19.960 and then just keep on creating uh you know, false 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.199 votes for whatever candidate you chose. You can only do 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.639 it the one time and then it would have to 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.159 be reset for the next voter, which meant that, you know, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.159 it was a little labor intensive because you had to 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:31.720 have someone there to reset the machine. But at the 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:36.240 same time, it kept the voting process honest um. And 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.960 then the first time Myers machine was actually used, I 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.760 remember it was made in so it didn't take long. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.000 And again there still was a weak point here. If 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.840 you had someone whose job it was to write down 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.159 the results, they could fudge the results from the machine. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.280 Let's also point out that here in the well eight 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:06.560 nineteen century, yep, post civil war, at least in the US. Yes, 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.240 the late nineteenth century is post civil war even today, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.720 even today, I'm just saying, with with that having occurred 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.840 so recently, corruption was rife and rampant, oh yeah, especially 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.680 like there's certain areas of the United States that have 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:29.280 almost a comical association with election fraud, Chicago, Chicago being 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.600 the big one. Like you'll hear stories about Chicago elections 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:38.400 that are amazing, like like like, how how how many 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.960 people turn out to vote in an election, including ones 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.359 who haven't been alive for like ten years? Um, boss 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.880 tweed kind of stuff. Right, Yeah, yeah, so at any rate, 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:54.040 the the this didn't erase the ability for uh, some 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.160 tampering to happen, right, But again it would be the humans. Ideally, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.679 the machines count all the votes as they were cast, 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.160 but the humans whose job it was to transcribe that 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.440 could fudge if they wanted, if they if they were 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.480 so inclined. Not that they were allowed to, but they 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.760 could have because there's a hierarchy of reporting here. One 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.720 person tabulates each machine. After each vote goes to a precinct. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.720 Precinct tabulates, it goes to a higher authority of a 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.560 regional swort, and then on and on and on up 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.440 to the national level. Yeah. And just like you said earlier, 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.399 the more moving parts we have in a mechanism, whether 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.200 an organization or a machine, the more potential points of 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.040 failure we have. Right. And and this again kind of 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.560 leads into the thinking that would eventually develop into the 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.840 electronic voting machine. The idea of being that hey, if 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.040 we can remove some of these steps, then perhaps we 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.639 can end up having a more accurate reflection of the 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:54.320 public's intent, right which that's a very honorable thing, but 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.480 it gets a little a little muddy and practice. We 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.720 still have a ways to go. Bea we do so 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.040 nineteen thirty lever voting machines have become a common site 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.840 throughout elections in US cities. Most major cities had these 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:12.680 by nineteen thirty. UM In nineteen sixty two, karn City, California, 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.040 would use optical scan ballots for the first time. So 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:18.959 these are like the center dized tests, like the s 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.440 A T. I assume they're still like that. I haven't 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.320 been in high school in a really long time, but 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.680 you know the kind of test where you have to 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.080 fill in the bubble all the way to indicate your choice. 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:32.280 That's what we're talking about. Optical scans. So you've got 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.480 your ballot and you fill in the ballot as directed 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.439 in order to make your choices, and then those are 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.640 later put through a scanning machine. It's essentially like a camera. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.480 It just detects where the dots are and then it 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.639 can tell who you voted for based upon the position 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.159 of the dots. And obviously this means that you have 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.400 to have uh, very standardized papers so that they can 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.439 load in properly, be read by the machine correctly, so 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.159 that you don't get misidentified votes that sort of stuff. 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.480 You have to also have the seemingly unnecessary but in 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:12.560 practice crucial instructions for every voter on what we actually 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.439 mean when we say filling in a bubble. Yes, you know, 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:18.600 no check marks, no X. You have to fill it 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.440 in completely, all the stuff you may remember from your 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.760 S A T S, A C T S or L sets, right, yeah, 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.000 because if you don't fill it in correctly, if you 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:28.879 don't fill in that bubble fully, then it may not 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.080 be counted. And obviously every person who goes to the 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.360 trouble to vote once his or her vote to matter, right, 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.399 I mean, we don't. We don't just stand there just 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:41.840 for the fun of it. Um. Maybe the first time, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.119 but after that you're like, well, I'm doing my civic duty. 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.360 It's not my civic Oh boy, let's go and do this. 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:51.600 Remind me at some point when we get to the 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.240 contemporary area, I have a great voting story for you. Okay, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.640 but but right now we've got the scanners, and then 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.479 we move move into something that's a little bit of 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.040 local history for you and I. Yeah, in nineteen sixty four, 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.119 Fulton and Decab Counties in Georgia use punch cards and 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.680 computer tallely machines for the first time in an election. Uh. 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.160 Fulton and Decab Counties are really the two main counties 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.840 of Atlanta. If you look at Atlanta on a map, 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:20.400 especially if you look up the term metro Atlanta, there 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.440 are a whole bunch of counties that are in that something. 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.480 There's like thirteen or something. It's crazy at this point, 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.680