WEBVTT - Climate Week 2024: Finally Tackling the Mad Men of Big Oil 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.840 Hello, and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. This 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 week I'm at Climate Week in New York. It strangely 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.360 the first time I've ever been to Climate Week. Will 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:22.079 have been covering climate for twenty plus years now. It's 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.520 been an interesting mix so far. But last night we 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:30.600 did a live event version of our mad Men season. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.239 And there's been a lot of talk this week at 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.400 Climate Week about the mad Men of Big Oil because 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:42.680 UN Secretary General Antonio Guterrez has been calling for these 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.640 mad men to be held to account. So I figured 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.559 it was a good time to reprise our season on 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.239 this subject. This season initially debuted in twenty and it 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.640 came about because we had done this initial season on 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.800 the history of climate denial. And the more I looked 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.240 into it, the more I realized that there had to 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:07.120 be something else going on, that this could not have 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.640 worked as well as it did and as quickly as 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:14.319 it did if there wasn't something else there. The strategy 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.720 of climate denial is not that brilliant, and as I 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.280 started looking for answers, I talked to a lot of 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:24.920 scholars like doctor Robert Brule at Brown, Melissa Aronchick at Rutgers, 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.680 lots of folks, and the more I learned about the 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.479 way that pro fossil fuel propaganda had been shaped, the 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.800 more it all made sense. That season focused on key 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.000 figures in the pr industry, but the fossil fuel industry 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.480 has worked to shape information in general from all sides. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.920 You heard our episode last week on university research. That's 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:50.240 one way. You heard us talk to Maddie Stone earlier 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.000 in the year about management consultancies. That's another way. There 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.840 all these ways that the industry really warps the information 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.560 that we're getting, and even the structure of the information ecosystem. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.960 That's why I often talk about information pollution instead of disinformation, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.280 because we're dealing with something more than just a couple 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.240 of misleading statements. If you've never listened to this season, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.480 it's a good time to listen to it now. If 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.639 you did listen to it when it came out, it's 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.480 a good time to re listen to it now. Here 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.160 is episode one as a refresher, and I hope you'll 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.200 listen to the rest. We'll be back with a new 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.840 episode next week. Thanks for listening. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.080 Some farms grow food. This one gross fuel. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.160 Natural gas and oil companies are successfully meeting the demand 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:53.320 for greater energy. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.920 Cutting greenhouse gas emissions to their lowest levels and a generation. 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.720 And should there weather change yet again, on. 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.040 That sor gas can step in to keep the power 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.519 flowing and the light shining, no matter. 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.120 The forecast, innovating to meet the energy demands of today 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:08.200 and tomorrow. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:18.280 If you watch TV, or listen to the radio or podcasts, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.079 or use social media, or read newsletters or get your 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:23.200 news online. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:24.480 In other words, if you are. 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:29.160 A human in America today consuming media in any form, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.560 you've probably heard or seen some variation of these ads. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.280 They are everywhere, which makes sense. The oil industry is 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.600 embroiled in lawsuits over its role in delaying action on 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:41.520 climate change. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:43.120 Teenagers all over. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.160 The world are striking for climate policy, and every Democrat 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.160 running for president has both a climate plan and a 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.440 position on the Green New Deal. So companies like Exon Mobile, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.120 Chevron BP, they're worried about their image. They want consumers 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.560 to think of them as green companies, not polluters. And 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.520 the American Petroleum Institute their trade organization. They want everyone 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.240 to remember that natural gas is a clean energy. But 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.279 oil propaganda is nothing new. In fact, it's been a 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.560 part of the industry almost since it began, The American 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.120 Petroleum Institute. You know the guys you hear in all 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.920 the news podcasts like The New York Times, The Daily 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:26.720 are Voxes, the Weeds. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.279 Today, the US is leading the world and producing natural 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.479 gas and oil while reducing emissions at the same time. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.719 They've been around for more than one hundred years, and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.040 their strategy hasn't actually changed all that much in those years. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.960 According to environmental sociologist Bob Brule, who you might remember 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.000 from season one. 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.560 The American Way of Life and everything good about America. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.320 You know, apple Pie Mom, the flag fossil fuels, and 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.840 so by implication, what they do is basically say, any 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.000 attack on fossil fuels is an attack on our way 0:04:59.000 --> 0:04:59.400 of life. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.359 Part of what has enabled the fossil fuel industry to 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.200 operate the way it does is exactly this sort of propaganda. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.479 It has given the industry social license. It's created the 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.560 conditions for science denial to thrive, and it works in 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.920 really subtle ways too. It's the reason you'll hear even 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.839 those who want to act on climate say things about 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.960 protecting oil companies while you do it. So that's the 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.359 story we're going to tell this season, the creation of 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.440 big Oil's big propaganda machine and why it's still so 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:35.159 effective today. I'm Ami Westervelt, and this is Drilled, Season three, 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.520 The mad Men of Climate Denial. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.440 The important thing that we thought we had discovered in 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.560 our research, the thing we taught people need to understand, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.719 was that actually the roots of the story are not 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.360 found in the fossil fuel industry. 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.520 They're found in the tobacco industry. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.920 That's Naomi Eurescu's Harvard science historian and Merchant Doubt author. 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.000 Since Orescas first uncovered the link between big tobacco and 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.440 climate denial, it's been sort of accepted wisdom that big 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.159 oil copied big tobacco, and that's that. But that's not 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.440 quite the whole story. Big oil definitely copied science denial 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.400 from the tobacco industry's playbook. Aurescus has proven that thoroughly. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.039 Just like tobacco funded studies about all the other causes 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.159 of lung cancer to create doubt about its product really 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.440 being so bad, the oil guys funded research on all 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.800 the other potential causes of global warming, long after they 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.440 knew the primary culprit was fossil fuels. But there's more 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.960 to Big Oil's strategy than science denial, a lot more. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.840 Big oil started trying to influence the public a long 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.960 time before it got into the scientific spin game. In fact, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.760 the oil industry wrote the playbook on American propaganda in general, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.480 a lot of the techniques that we still see today, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:07:00.000 fake news, disinformation campaigns, even changing the vocabulary we used 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.440 to talk about, things like how we went from the 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.000 greenhouse effect to global warming to climate change. All of 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.600 that and more was created for the benefit of the 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.679 oil industry. Science denial is one front in Big Oil's 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.440 idea war, and it's an important one, but it's not 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:16.480 the only one. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:18.200 Here's Bob Brule again. 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.640 Well, why and share of the effort that these guys 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:26.480 are spending money on. It's not on science denial. Yes, 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.840 they spend this much on science denial, and I'm not 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.440 saying that that isn't important and doesn't count. But they're 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.200 spending probably five or ten times more on all this 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.640 corporate promotion advertising. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.560 When oil companies and trade groups like the American Petroleum 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.960 Institute pay public relations firms, it's not just for advertising 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.760 or even for dealing with the media. It's also for 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.480 less obvious tactics that aim to create a generally positive 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.960 view of the industry. If that sounds like some sort 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:00.280 of psychological warfare, it is. There's a long history of 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.200 military intelligence experts getting into the pr business, many of 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.480 them on behalf of Big Oil. Over the past century, 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.880 multiple generations of these guys have built an extensive, you 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.320 could say, well oiled publicity machine. That machine has shaped 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.000 American opinions on the environmental impacts of oil and the 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.720 importance of the fossil fuel industry. It's that apparatus that 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.480 the courts are starting to call into question today and 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.240 that the public is finally starting to see too. And 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.080 it all started more than one hundred years ago with 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.360 the first oil tycoon, John D. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:37.240 Rockefeller. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.840 No, on this my birthday, I desire to reaffirm my 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:47.360 belief in the fundamental principles upon which this country was founded, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:54.079 their birthday, unselfish emotions of the common good, and believe 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:54.679 in God. 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.200 There he is, on his ninety third birthday with his 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:03.719 brown little glasses, sounding like a true American patriotism. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:09.000 Morality, the common good. Now, John D. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.960 Rockefeller was a very religious guy, but this image here 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.800 is really the result of decades worth of grooming and 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.480 management from the world's first pr guy. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.160 The foundations of modern pr in general, and the fossil 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.240 fuel propaganda machine in particular, were built around rehabilitating the 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.640 Rockefeller family's image back in the early nineteen hundreds, and 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.319 specifically to counter the work of one woman, an investigative journalist, 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.400 one of the first muckrakers, a woman named Ida Tarbell. 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.760 This is supreme wrongdoing cloaked by religion. There is but 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.000 one name for it, hypocrisy. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.319 So Ida Tarbell starts digging into Standard Oil at the 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.400 dawn of the century. She was a pretty established journalist 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.000 and a biographer at this point. So she said about 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.680 writing what she thought was going to be a biography 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.800 of John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil. And she was 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.240 really determined and dogged in her pursuit of information. She 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.920 would track down these archives of documents and then go 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:08.680 to pick up a box and find that all the 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.560 documents had been destroyed. But she kept out at and 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.160 she found people inside the company that would talk to her, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.280 and she did find some documentary evidence eventually too. 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:18.520 And what she ends up. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.320 Pulling together with all of that is a nineteen part 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.280 series on Standard Oil and basically how John D. Rockefeller 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.560 had scammed his way into a monopoly. At the time, 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.760 he controlled everything about oil, from drilling to refining, pipelines 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:33.560 to railroads. 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.079 Rockefeller and his associates did not build the Standard Oil 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.080 Company in the boardrooms of Wall Street banks. They fought 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.120 their way to control by rebates and drawback, bribe and 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.640 blackmailt espionage, and price cutting. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.040 Rockefeller had put hundreds of hard working independent producers out 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.839 of business. He'd been given an unfair competitive advantage, and 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:55.200 the public was outraged. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.640 So was President Theodore Roosevelt. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.680 By nineteen oh six, the Department of just As filed 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.440 an anti trust claim against Rockefeller. Five years later, the 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.440 US Supreme Court ruled that Standard Oil had in fact 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.679 violated anti trust laws and needed to be broken up. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:11.760 And just a few. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.320 Years after that, Rockefeller's son was in the news, also 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.160 getting bad press, this time at the company's mine in Colorado. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:24.480 Mineers out of doors, out from the houses that the 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:25.320 company own. 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.640 May have heard that very famous Wooden Gustrie song. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.040 It was written about a massive strike at Rockefeller's coal 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:36.040 mine in Ludlow, Colorado, in the summer of nineteen thirteen, 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:40.040 United Mine workers began to organize the eleven thousand coal 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:45.559 miners employed by the Rockefeller owned Colorado Fuel and Iron Company. Initially, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.520 workers asked to meet with management to air their grievances 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.520 low pay, long and unregulated hours, and the fact that 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.080 they were only allowed to live and trade in the 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.640 company town. That meant everything they bought was just paying 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.680 money back to the company they were worked for, and 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.800 it gave the company an enormous amount of control over 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.800 their lives, even though those rights had already been legally. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:08.480 Granted to workers. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.280 Management wasn't having it, so a month later, eight thousand 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.280 Colorado mine workers went on strike. Of course, first Rockefeller 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.840 evicted them from their company owned homes, which was the 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.040 entire point of why company towns aren't great for workers 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.680 on strike and homeless. The miners and their families set 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.520 up a tent setting near the mine. By nineteen fourteen, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.600 about twelve hundred people were living in that camp. It 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.200 was a huge protest, but that wasn't necessarily new at 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.479 this point in history. What made the Ludlow strike infamous 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.320 was what Rockefeller did to bust it. Private security guards 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.079 and the National Guard showed up at the protest camp 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.080 with machine guns. They lit tents on fire and sprayed 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.360 the camp with bullets, killing twenty two protesters, including women 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.480 and children. A riot broke out, including more guns on 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.640 both sides, and by the end of it, more than 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.280 sixty people had died. Wasn't long before every paper was 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.280 painting Rockefeller as the villain. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.199 First the Trust thing. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.800 And now this he was everything Americans were coming to 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.160 hate about their bosses. In desperate need of some good 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.040 pr Rockefeller hired this guy. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:24.280 Rockefeller listen to me patiently, pleasantly and calmly until I'd 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.600 finished mile Upon presentation. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.760 IV Ledbetter Lead is widely considered the father of public relations. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.120 Rockefeller initially hired him to help handle the fallout from 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:39.079 what journalists including Ida Tarbell, had started calling the Ludlow massacre, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.920 and Leaded such a good job they wound up working 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.040 together for the rest of his life and his handling 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.760 of Ludlow. The first thing Lee did was create an 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.760 entirely fake story. He claimed the strikers weren't even really workers, 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.600 they were plants from the labor unions. In Lee's story, 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.319 labor organizer Mother Jones had orchestrated the whole thing, and 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.280 for some reason he threw in that Jones was running 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.160 a nearby brothel. She was eighty two at the time, 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.160 so not likely. When he was asked about this story 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.280 decades later, Lee said, quote, what are facts anyway, but 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:18.280 my interpretation of what happened. Lee's approach worked. He coached 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.040 Rockefeller on how to talk, how to behave in public, 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.680 to make himself likable, how to seem like one of 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.560 the people, even which charitable projects to take on. The 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.880 press never knew what hit him, and when Rockefeller died, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:35.680 he was remembered as a kindly philanthropist, a hard working industrialist, 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:40.480 and a true blue American. Standard Oil's progeny, of course, 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.640 became today's oil giants Exon now Exon Mobil, Conico, Phillips, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.520 and Chevron. And just like you can draw a straight 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.200 line from Standard Oil to Chevron and Exon Mobile, today 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.920 you can see Ivy Ledbetter Lee's fingerprints all over the 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.440 oil industry's disinformation campaigns. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:14:59.680 It's the same. 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.280 Tactic Lee used to rehabilitate Rockefeller's image way back then. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.520 Fake news crisis actors corporate philanthropy as a PR move, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.040 all to shift the public's focus away from a company's 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.600 bad behavior, the company that's working to bring affordable, scalable 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.440 carbon capture to industries around the world. So who exactly 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.960 was Ivy led Better Lee, What did he end up 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.320 doing for Rockefeller and Standard Oil in the years following 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.720 the Ludlow massacre, Why did he love Russia so much? 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.040 And what exactly made him so good at propaganda that 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.840 a certain German dictator came calling just a few years later. 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.960 We'll get into all of that and more next time. 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.680 The oil companies, especially Standard Oil and then later on 0:15:54.760 --> 0:16:01.840 through API, were really the beginners and probably the greatest 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:08.400 institutionalized effort at developing corporate propaganda to support their industry. 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.040 Drilled is part of the Critical Frequency podcast Network. The 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.400 show is reported, written, and produced by me Amy Westervelt. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.520 Julia Richie is our editor. Our managing producer is Katie Ross. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.880 She also created this season's incredible artwork, sound design, scoring 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.520 and mixing by b Emon. Riga Murphy is our editorial advisor. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.960 Meamula Schaance is our fact checker. Special thanks to Richard 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.600 Wiles and to our First Amendment Attorney, James Wheaton and 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.120 the First Amendment Project, Drilled is made possible in part 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.840 by a generous grant from the Institute for Governance and 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.120 Sustainable Development. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.560 We appreciate their support. You can find Drilled on. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.880 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.200 Don't forget to leave us a rating, a review. It 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.000 really helps the show. And you can follow us on 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.200 Twitter now at we are Drilled, and visit our new 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:06.240 website drillednews dot com for climate accountability, reporting, newsletters, and 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.679 behind the scenes stories from this season. Thanks for listening 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:10.800 and we'll see you next time.