WEBVTT - Vol. 17: John Amaechi 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Charges. That's created by por Delays and Control Media. It's 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:07.400 produced by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.440 This time a former Son's player who you might remember 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.040 as t Rex. More video in just a moment, but 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.720 this is Rex Chapman's mug Shaun, and we are learning 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.880 a lot more about the charge up. Charging. You're a 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.960 gay man at a time when it's not accepted. Forget 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.040 pro sports, it's not even accepted in daily light in 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.240 most parts of the country. You know, in Utah, people 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.600 knew I was gay in the organization and they did 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.120 not like it at all from the daftings. But basketball 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.199 six years later, I was in the league. Some of 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.960 the sports and the sports league don't deserve a love. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:51.120 Sports over promises and underdelivers. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.520 Rex Chapman. Today on the show we have John Amici. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.840 Some of you guys are going to have to dig 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.520 deep in your mind for why that name rings a bell. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.760 Maybe it's because John was the first person from England 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.080 or the United Kingdom to make it to the NBA. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.160 Or maybe you're a fan of Penn State, where John 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.600 was at two time academic All American, or maybe it's 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.320 because after his professional career ended, John told the world 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.640 his truth. He's gay, and he played basketball at the 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.880 highest level as a gay man in the mid nineties 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.800 in early two thousands. And then John did what so 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.680 many athletes struggled to do. Hell, what I've struggled to do. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.360 He retired, he moved on, he got involved with another passion, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.759 and here he is now a decorated psychologist and one 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.600 of the smartest, most considerate people I've come across. Let 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.640 alone to lace up some sneakers or trainers as they're 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.680 called in England and be a part of the NBA brotherhood. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:56.040 This his charges. John. It's an honor to have you 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.920 on the show today. Thank you for being here. It's 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.240 an absolute pleasure. Um. I'm sure that I'm not the 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.200 first to say this, but sometimes you post the usual 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.400 Dawa stuff that we all need to see. But sometimes 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.880 you post these timeline cleanses that are like, this is 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.919 saving me right now, this is saving me. So thank you. Yeah, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.080 that's amazing, John. Normally on this show, UH, athletes have 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.360 face charges either from the law or court of public opinion. 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.280 What are the charges you've faced from the court of 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:35.000 public opinion? Well, everything from being just intrinsically sinful, uh, 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:44.760 full of myself, uh, pseudo intellectual um uppity. Okay, this 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.760 is this is just my small list of this. Yeah, 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.880 I get it. I get it. You've I don't know 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:51.679 if I want to sit down with you in therapy, 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:56.040 Uh where you're diagnosing me? My goodness, let's start here. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.040 I've seen and heard you say this in other interviews. Uh, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:05.080 you're not a sports fan. No, I really appreciate, so 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.080 I hope people can make this distinction. I really appreciate 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.000 when I see people do remarkable stuff, whether it's Simone 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.480 Biles and you watch her spinning mid air and land. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.639 You know. I don't know about you, but I went 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.200 nowadays walking downstairs. There's a bit of a challenge for me, 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.200 so I went when I see that, but I recognize 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.119 intrinsically something amazing. I've been a part of something called 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.919 the Activity Alliance in the UK, which is a charity 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.200 that works with people with disabilities who participate in sports 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.400 or physical activity. And I remember this has got to 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.680 be nearly twenty years ago, when I uh was still 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.200 in the league, and I was I I think so anyway, 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:48.200 and I watched a young man, severely disabled young man 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.720 in an electric wheelchair with a bean bag, and they 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.200 have a bean bag throw is part of the competition. 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:55.960 And I remember watching and I was still at a 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.960 stage when I was probably stupid enough and young enough 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.200 to I don't know, to not care about people who 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.240 I didn't think we're real sports people. And then suddenly 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.520 I did like a double take on this this kid's face, 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.440 and I realized it's the same face that you see 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:15.280 on court. It's the same face. So I really appreciate 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:21.000 excellence in sport. My problem is that that some of 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.320 the fandom creates a real toxicity, and also some of 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.159 the sports and the sports league don't deserve our love. 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.960 They overpromise and underdeliver in a way that is so 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.239 epic that only weight loss drugs companies are probably ahead 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.719 of them. Yeah yeah, man, tell me how a non 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.279 sports fan who grows up in England becomes the first 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.760 Englishman to ever play in the NBA. I was stopped 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.480 on the street. And I don't think this is an 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.440 uncommon thing. It's an uncommon thing in the United Kingdom 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.479 to be stopped on the street to play basketball. But 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.480 I was stopped on the street by a man whose 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.040 name I do not know, and I don't know who 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.040 it was. And the different in that moment in my 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.600 life is remarkable because if you'd have asked me if 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.560 I wanted to play basketball, I would have laughed at 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.480 him sweating. I was seventeen years old when this happened. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.159 I started playing basketball at seventeen and a half. You 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.040 hadn't picked up a basketball until then, really, no, no, no, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.400 no no. I ate pie and read books. I ate 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.200 pie and read box. That was my So he he 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.719 saw your size you had gotten. How tall were you 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.960 at the time. I was probably six seventh Okay, wow, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:29.880 so I got big real quick, and you know, it's 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.359 pretty much my I'm six nine now. Well I'm getting 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.800 short of now, but I'm as tall as I was, 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.240 almost as tall as I was going to be. And 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.760 he he didn't ask me if I wanted to play, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.000 because I would have said no. He didn't even tell 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.440 me I should play. I always hate it when people 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.680 tell other people what they should do, because what they 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.760 really mean is you know what you're good for. But 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.760 he said he would be great a basketball and I 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.760 remember being absolutely incredulous. On the street in Manchester Market 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.520 street in Manchester, just being incredulous that somebody who was 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.400 a stranger had told me I could be eight. And 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.480 I was like, all right then, I mean such an 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.440 idiot because I ended up in a gym horrible Jim 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.760 in Chorlton with the backboards posted pasted onto the wall. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.440 Something you took upon yourself to do what you heard that. 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.200 Had you played other sports? Had you played no, no, no. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.840 My living was bringing in forged notes. My mom was 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.000 a doctor g P bringing in forged notes, saying John 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:30.840 can't do pe today. That was my life. I hated it. 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:35.000 I hated sweating physical activity. But I got in that 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:40.000 gym and fifteen or so strangers in that gym when 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.159 I walked in, ran towards me, grabbed me by the 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.280 arms and we're fighting over whose team who would get me? 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.760 Even when I was I was terrible. Obviously, you know 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.200 every big who walks in off the street, nobody's got 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.080 that much. I shot my first shot. Somebody told me 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:57.520 to shoot it, and I was like, what shoot it? 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.039 And so is put throw that in there? So I 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.560 threw it up. I missed by about six ft and somebody, 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.800 some kid on the team just just yelled out, that's 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.239 his first shot and he only missed by six ft 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.480 And I was like, who wouldn't want to live as 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.480 I was like at the end of that session, I said, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.680 I'm never leaving this place and that's why I wanted 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.640 to play basketball. And when they told me, I told 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.920 him about the NBA. That day we were sat down 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.160 at the end of training. They started talking about the 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.400 NBA and I was like, what's that say? It's the 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:33.760 best league in the world. They said, well, what does 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.840 it mean? And the National Basketball Association? Cool, and listen, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.520 it's in America. And I immediately thought, if I could 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.600 have this good feeling around people, but do it in 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.200 the sunshine, wouldn't that be great? And that's the start 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.600 of my NBA journey. I want to do what this 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:56.240 feeling but in Los Angeles, I can't even begin to 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.760 express to you all how incredible John of mechs. In 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.200 the history of the NBA, there's only been a little 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.840 over forty players. The odds of making it into the 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.840 league for anyone, let alone someone who picked up the 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.720 game at age seventeen, are right next to impossible. John's 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.080 journey from a young man who didn't play sports to 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.160 an adult who doesn't like sports but was a professional 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.000 basketball player in the NBA fraternity is so marvelous and 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.120 miraculous that it could be a movie. While some see 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.200 sports as an escape, the difference with John was that 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.480 for him it meant acceptance as a young six ft 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:41.320 eight black man amongst boys. So you just you felt 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:46.000 accepted by a group of people for the first time. Yeah, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.680 because mostly when I when you know, when I walked 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.600 down the street even now, I mean I'm fairly regularly 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.200 stopped in searching in the United Kingdom. Um, but even then, 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.800 when I walked down the street, the number one reaction 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.040 to me was terror. Even as a geek key, you know, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.000 thick glasses wearing kid who has usually had a pie 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.240 in his hand and books, people were terrified of me. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.600 And yet in this place, you know, most of the 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.320 people in my school thought I was thick. Assumed if 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.000 I'm a big black kid, the only black kid in 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.240 my school, I must be thick. And so you get 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.800 into this new environment and everybody thinks you've got potential. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:31.000 It's intoxicating. You were a great student, though, right always? 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.000 Or what did you put forth the effort? So I 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.360 was I was very um. Let me see, my mother 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.959 was very dedicated to me being a great student, and 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.360 I love to learn. But what's interesting, and nobody cares 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.760 about this, this is I'm taking a nerd, right, But um, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.599 there's this weird thing where people misunderstand that being thrilled 0:09:53.880 --> 0:10:01.080 by learning is not necessarily measured in education. And so 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.200 I did quite well at the O levels, which is 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.080 the up to sixteen A level. I did catastrophically badly 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.719 because what I'm not good at is regurgitating learned information. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.480 What I'm great at is the integration of ideas to 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.480 come up with a decent solution, or at least contributing 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.280 to a decent solution. So actually, not even undergraduate, but 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.720 graduate school really suited me because that's what it was, 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.000 figuring things out. That's amazing. Tell me more about what 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.480 you remember about your early years with your mom um. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.560 I I she was amazing. I always tell people that 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.640 my mom was better than their mom um. The best 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.040 way I can describe it is that most people have 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.000 had the experience of those lovely, high pressure, cool days 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.880 where the sun shining and it's not so bright, so 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.839 you can kind of close your eyes and look towards 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:58.160 the sun, and it feels like your whole brain is 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:03.040 being illuminated by the lights. That's what talking to my 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.280 mother was like. Everything she talked to you, it was 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:12.000 like your whole brain was being warmed and illuminated by 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:16.120 the sun, even when she was yelling at you. It 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.760 gives me chills. The way you speak, the way it 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.560 appears your mind works. It comes from somewhere. And you 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.120 describing your mother like that, just know that there's some 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:33.360 of that in there. Obviously obviously, Uh you said basketball 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.560 gave you acceptance for being big, for being black, you 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.920 know all of it. How important is that acceptance not 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.679 only for you in your life, but in everyone's life. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.400 I think where you feel at home, where you where 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:53.040 you can find a place where you aren't spending parts 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.560 of your energy to protect yourself is amazing. I know 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.400 that you will understand this, perhaps from a different aspective, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.000 but we've all been in positions where we've had to 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.959 hide or protect parts of our identity and it takes energy. People, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.000 and so there's only a finite amount of energy. People 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.280 love this, especially in sports. We love this stupid idea 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.400 of a hundred and ten percent. It's like, no, sometimes 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.000 there is just a percent of something and not more 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.720 than that. And so if two percent of it is 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.680 being used to kind of protect you from those people 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.280 who say cruel things, and another two percents being used 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.120 because the coach has the wrong style or or treat 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.640 you with disrespect, and another two percent because you're worried 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.240 about your family at home, and another two percent another 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.679 whatever percent because you're gay and nobody knows about it, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.320 whatever it is, you suddenly realize the end. And in 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.559 most workplaces you can get by. But when you're one 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.839 of the you know, supposedly top three odd people in 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.520 the world, it's something you kind of need, like on 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.520 a bad day, and especially as me, because let's face it, 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.320 you were a player. You are a legend, and I 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.319 am a former player, but not a legend, right, I'm not. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.160 This is not humble, This is just practical. Let's just 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.720 be practical. And so I bring other things to the 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.440 table nowadays. And I brought other things to the table 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.400 when I was there, and I had a couple of 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.040 great years, but you know, not my on my best day, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.440 I still needed to bring otherwise I would get squashed. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:31.000 I understand that completely, and Honestly, I bounced around the league. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.600 I wasn't an all star type player every year. I 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.040 understand exactly what you're talking about. And what was weird 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.440 for me is you know, any secret that I had 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.520 or part of my identity that I hid, you know, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.840 over an amount of time over my life. Once I 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.640 started talking and those I let out those parts, you 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:58.760 know what, I felt uneasy, like I didn't know what 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.200 to do with out the secret or I'm sure you've 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:08.120 gone through that, right. It builds a gravity. Secrets have gravity, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.720 and when you start to let go of it, it 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:16.079 feels like you're spiraling away from from something incredibly familiar, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.400 even if that familiar is bad. You know, one of 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.080 the things that people don't realize about why change is 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.240 so hard. It's not actually about the difficulty of going 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.600 from something good to something better. It doesn't. It's not 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.480 even about the difficulty in going through something good to 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.239 something worse. Any change from your status quo will be unwelcome, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:39.080 at least initially until you wrap your finder us. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:45.440 brilliant Dachi take go with a skin absolutely indo. He's 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.280 so big, it's so strong, and he's got such a 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.160 soft shot Michigan shot sent in the first half, John A. 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:57.920 Mici Mrs gets the foot back. Then State with Michigan regroup, 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.480 Michi strong inside or all to part room to AMGI. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.880 He had twenty six and Maji spent two years and 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.560 stadium was tipped for the draft when the end wasn't picked. 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.320 Then just before the started last season, he got a 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.239 call from the Cleveland Cavaliers. The dream had come true. 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.000 Let's talk about becoming a professional athlete for a second 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.600 in the mid nineties in America. How did how did 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.520 you do that? How did you end up in the league? 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:26.600 I wrote three thousand letters to America UM when I 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.680 was seventeen from that day, that day that the man 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.120 approached you and this set you on track and you 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.760 had you had a focus at that point, right. Oh yeah. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.360 I want to be clear. When I left the gym 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.280 after my first hour and fifteen minutes session in basketball, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:49.880 having missed taken and missed one shot zero percent. That 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.320 sitting down in that gym with my new teammates, who 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.920 I already decided with my teammates now they talked about 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.960 the NBA. It was there they said, this is the NBA, 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.240 It's the best place in the world. I said, yeah, 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.000 I'm going to do that. That's what I told them 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:06.960 right there. And then what's interesting is that each of 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.120 them they said, of course you are, but not like 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.360 in a sake sarcasm way, in a legitimate yeah, of 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.680 course you are. So that's what started me off. Then 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:18.240 I had to find a way to get to America. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.600 We went to a bookshop in London that had the 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.360 Fulbright Commission is you might be familiar with it, used 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.720 to do all kinds of exchanges and things like that. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.440 But they had this book with all the high schools 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.640 in America in it. Because don't forget this is I 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.760 don't know eighty something and so it wasn't in an 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.760 internet or email time. And I got this book and 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.480 I simply went through. I knew there were too many 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.520 in that I just went through every couple of pages, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.880 stuck a pen on the page whatever the dot was 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.880 that was. So there was this place in Roanoke, Virginia 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.040 that I wrote of this high school in Roano, Virginia. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.760 I wrote a letter to um Toledo, Ohio. Quite a 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.360 few other places I wrote the same letter high coach. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.440 My name is John M. G. I am six ft nine, 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:07.280 black and English and I want to play on your team, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.639 something along about sirs lines. I expected to be inundated 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.600 and was not. I got three replies, UM, two of 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.000 which were knows. One of them like, why would you 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.240 bother right? But two of them were knows. One of 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.080 them was from a very famous high school in New Jersey, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.480 UM where they said, we're the winning this school in 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.120 New Jersey. We don't need foreign talent. And then one 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.920 of them was from Telit, Ohio, and they said, if 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.760 you're serious, you're willing to work, we'll give you a goal. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.360 So I went to Toledo, Ohio. That, by the way, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.119 I just want to point out that blew my idea 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.400 of America out of the water. Don't don't don't forget that. 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.879 I knew America from night Rider in the eight That 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.959 was that was what I knew. The sun always shines, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.119 but it shines in a really reasonable way. And I 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.200 got to Ohio in the middle of summer and nearly 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.439 died when I off the plane. I couldn't believe how 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.439 hot it was. Then people started talking to me, and 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:09.680 I realized that Americans don't speak English speak Americans, like, 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.720 what do you what do you think? So I spent 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.520 my first three weeks just nodding and smiling at people, 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.080 trying to figure out what the hell is going on 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.119 around But such a generous group of people. Were you? 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.520 Were you any good at this point? No? I mean, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.720 I mean, I mean I thought I was a two 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.560 god X. I thought I was a two god. I 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.160 didn't like contact and I like to shoot threes. But John, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.320 at within a year or two, you're able to compete 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.240 on the college level and not just compete, stand out. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.800 That's where I started watching you. I actually you know, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.560 I'm an SEC guy Kentucky all that. I remembered you 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.760 at Vandy and then did you you sat out a year? Yes, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.720 because you showed back up at Penn State and we're 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.720 killing it. And so I don't understand. You know, it's 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.440 like a guy going from hitting fourteen home runs one 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.840 season to hitting seventy eight the next year. I just 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.119 don't understand how you were able to progress. Was it? 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.320 I'm sure your brain helped obviously, but you had to 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:26.000 fall in love somewhat with getting in shape and staying 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:32.600 in shaping you. No, I I lament most mornings. I 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.479 miss being in shape. You know, you look pretty in 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.280 shape right now, but I am not. And I lament 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.000 those days when you could just be on a you know, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:41.440 when you be on a treadmill next to one of 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.200 your teammates, you just be talking. You're going eighteen miles 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.840 an hour, but you're just chatting. No problem. You get off, 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:48.720 you take one big, deep breath, and your your heart 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.159 rates back to fifty. I missed those days, but I 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.359 remember what it took to get there. Going to high school, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.760 I didn't realize that basketball was a business. And my 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.240 high school coach at High Hull, who just retired last 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.000 year as the head coach there, told me to just 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.120 enjoy this year because remember, this will be the last 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.040 time you play for fun. It won't be the last 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.720 time you have fun playing, but it will be the 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.000 last time you play for fun. Wise words, and I 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.680 was in a wait. They told me about weight rooms. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.320 I was like what, and tracks and running on. So 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.919 that's when I learned that. But also my mother was 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.239 diagnosed with cancer at the same time, and so I 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.439 realized that if I'm going to be here, it is 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:33.679 a sign of abject disrespect to my mother to fail 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.879 in this pursuit. And so That's that's what it was. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.280 Every run, every step, every lift of a weight was 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:47.479 a step towards scholarship security. My mom being proud. Wow, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.560 makes makes a ton of sense now, it really does, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:56.520 so far away from home. Every player's journey to the 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:01.480 NBA is different, some more difficult than others. John's college 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.240 career was special. I remember watching him play a year 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.840 in the SEC for Vanderbilt in nine. I could tell 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.760 he was a problem. Then he transferred to Penn State 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.920 for three years before going undrafted, but did amazingly get 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:18.200 signed in nine by the Cleveland Cavaliers, becoming the first 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.760 undrafted player to start in their first game. John played 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.800 twenty eight games in Cleveland before injury. He then went 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.159 overseas to play in Italy, Greece, and the UK before 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.320 coming back to the NBA in n with the Orlando Magic, 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.680 where he had a breakout season, averaging ten points per 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.680 game over eighty games. He had one more season in Orlando, 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.240 playing in all eighty two games. John then played three 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.920 more seasons as a backup in Utah. Five seasons overall 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.600 in the NBA is a good career, but his biggest 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.800 contributions to the league and the world of sports were 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.119 still ahead of him. We'll be right back after a 0:21:56.160 --> 0:22:08.400 word from our sponsors. A British sportsman is creating a 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:12.360 state side after admitting that he's gay. Why does America care? 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.520 Because John Amici was a professional basketball player, a sport 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.199 with a very macho image, in a sport that has 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.760 been graced by some legendary athletes. John Amici was ordinary, 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.720 but he's creating an extraordinary fuss in the US by 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.720 announcing that he's gay. Those who followed the sport closely 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:37.879 to say the revelation is unprecedented. You know, I know 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:42.880 you've talked about this and written about it in your book. Uh, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.160 you're in the n b A. You're a gay man 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.440 at a time when it's not accepted. Forget pro sports, 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.359 it's not even accepted in daily life in most parts 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.560 of the country. What was that like and what do 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.600 you think when you see the world today where Ellen 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.640 is the most popular TV host for the a's decade. 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:09.239 Um So, I pretty much put my social life in 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:13.200 a box under my bed, And it wasn't just about 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.200 being in the closet. It was that I was never sure. 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:19.879 I don't know if people can relate to this fear, 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.320 but the idea that if I, if I really started 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.440 to enjoy everything, that perhaps it would all come crumbling 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.640