Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2: My guest tonight is the best selling author whose new
Speaker 2: book is called Grief Is for People. Please welcome, Sloan Crosley.
Speaker 1: All Right, how you feeling?
Speaker 3: I feel pretty great. How do you feel?
Speaker 4: I feel great. I'm excited to talk with you. This
Speaker 4: book is beautiful and wonderful. You write before this book
Speaker 4: a lot of essays involving humor. This is a memoir
Speaker 4: involving loss and grief with a lot of humor in it.
Speaker 1: I laugh.
Speaker 4: But how do you strike that balance between grief and laughing.
Speaker 3: I know, I believe I'm here talking about the sad book.
Speaker 5: No, I think that the sort of topography of grief
Speaker 5: that everyone experiences. The people you miss, you miss because
Speaker 5: they're so specific. And in this case, the person I
Speaker 5: miss was very dark and very funny, And so you
Speaker 5: have both my cylinder of humor going and his going
Speaker 5: at the same time.
Speaker 4: You mentioned Russell, But really, when you start this book,
Speaker 4: it's about being burglarized.
Speaker 3: I know, so many bad things.
Speaker 4: So many bad things happen. Again, there's a lot of laughing.
Speaker 4: There is a lot of laughing for real, for real,
Speaker 4: I mean. But one of the most interesting parts of
Speaker 4: the book is how it turns, and tell me a
Speaker 4: little bit about how you approach that from being robbed
Speaker 4: to then this next bad thing that happened.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so basically, in June June twenty seventh of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 5: I left my apartment for one hour to get a
Speaker 5: hand X ray.
Speaker 3: So I took all my rings off, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: what are you going to do?
Speaker 5: And came home to find all my jewelry gone, burgerized
Speaker 5: and not particularly flashy, just gone.
Speaker 3: And then a month.
Speaker 5: Later, my dearest friend unfortunately died by suicide. So that
Speaker 5: first loss obviously became the sort of more minor precursor
Speaker 5: to the second loss. But I, as a human being,
Speaker 5: I am deeply unlucky, but as a in this case,
Speaker 5: I am.
Speaker 3: But as a.
Speaker 5: Writer of this book, I knew this is a suspenseful
Speaker 5: story about grief, and it's a funny story about grief,
Speaker 5: and I don't think you get a lot of those.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's easy to grieve at first for these items,
Speaker 4: yeah right, I mean, if you have sucked, it sucks.
Speaker 4: I mean it's you know, we had some winter coats stolen,
Speaker 4: and I'm almost embarrassed.
Speaker 1: Winter coats I am sorry exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: It is humorous in a way, but also you feel violated,
Speaker 4: you feel mad, and then as soon as anything real happens,
Speaker 4: you go that's the important thing.
Speaker 5: Yes, well, it's also the only commonality that these two
Speaker 5: losses have is the sudden nature of them. It just
Speaker 5: felt like a real demarcation of before and after, which
Speaker 5: you don't always get with grief.
Speaker 1: Tell me about Russell.
Speaker 4: You tell a lot of in the book, but a
Speaker 4: national television please share Russell.
Speaker 5: Anyone would about their friend. So I used to work
Speaker 5: in book publishing. He hired me. I worked for him
Speaker 5: for ten years. He was a wildly generous, funny, brilliant,
Speaker 5: brilliant publicist and deeply inappropriate. I'm really hesitant to repeat
Speaker 5: some of the lines in the book, but you know,
Speaker 5: he fits sort of less and less I think in
Speaker 5: a world that he had helped built in a way.
Speaker 5: And part of the challenges challenge of this book was
Speaker 5: how to memorialize and pay tribute to someone like that
Speaker 5: without sounding like a frustrated septagenarian white man who's like,
Speaker 5: it's just not the same.
Speaker 1: Right, right, You know, the world has changed, the world
Speaker 1: has changed.
Speaker 5: But he was just a just a wonderful, well read
Speaker 5: human being who really was almost like, you know, he's
Speaker 5: my partner in crime. Yeah, I felt like that people
Speaker 5: have that with work relationships and friends.
Speaker 4: I love when you talk about some of his quote
Speaker 4: unquote offensive whatever they were, remarks, actions. I mean he
Speaker 4: sent you an email once as your cats or something
Speaker 4: that a whole account, the whole account.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say, like, Mommy, why are you wearing
Speaker 5: the same thing you wore yesterday?
Speaker 3: Mommy won and you come home last night? Right, this
Speaker 3: is my boss.
Speaker 1: Just so that's so awesome.
Speaker 3: I mean also like my dear, wonderful friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what HR doesn't get is won't kill them? Right, Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's when someone is gone.
Speaker 4: It's these hilarious sometimes they cross the line moments that
Speaker 4: we think about and we laugh about.
Speaker 5: Yes, and now, having said that, I'm not trying to
Speaker 5: be permissive over some of the behavior that he exhibited it.
Speaker 5: But also it didn't come those things that we're talking about, didn't.
Speaker 5: They weren't attached to, you know, sort of abuses of
Speaker 5: power or lording sex over people or anything like that.
Speaker 3: He fought for everyone's raises.
Speaker 4: You know, you talk about lack of self help books
Speaker 4: or grieving groups for loss of a friend.
Speaker 1: Yes, why is that?
Speaker 5: Well, I would say, it's not like anyone was trying
Speaker 5: to take my grief away from me.
Speaker 3: You know. Nobody was like, what, you don't get to
Speaker 3: grieve too bad?
Speaker 1: Just a friend, get over to.
Speaker 3: Sit in the corner.
Speaker 5: No, but it just felt like the structure of life,
Speaker 5: of the self help books, of the internet is very
Speaker 5: much loss of a spouse, loss of a child, God forbid,
Speaker 5: you know, loss of a parent. And so, in addition
Speaker 5: to being so confused and hurt by his death, I
Speaker 5: had this sort of extra patina of thinking, do I
Speaker 5: ever write to this how much I'm trying.
Speaker 3: To get purchase? How much of it is mine?
Speaker 5: And it turns out about two hundred pages worth is mine.
Speaker 4: It's it can feel very serious, but there's humor. And
Speaker 4: are you looking for the humor?
Speaker 6: Or?
Speaker 1: Are you a person who writes your truth? The world
Speaker 1: your and humor?
Speaker 3: Is there this whole thing?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that no, I mean it is the truth is
Speaker 3: a ziety.
Speaker 4: I'm asking not for them because I'm curious, because it's like,
Speaker 4: do you try to be funny?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Not for them? Do you try to be funny in
Speaker 1: this serious situation.
Speaker 3: No, no, I don't.
Speaker 5: I think that what I have and what I imagine you
Speaker 5: have as well, in replace of poetry, maybe our analogies
Speaker 5: and observations and sort of this abject exasperation at the world.
Speaker 5: And that's how I see and describe the world. So
Speaker 5: the humor, you know, in my more traditional humor essays,
Speaker 5: there's a better sort of alignment I suppose between the
Speaker 5: topic and how I'm telling the story. With a green book,
Speaker 5: I think it hopefully gives the book more texture and
Speaker 5: or will offend massive amounts of people.
Speaker 1: No, well, it's not as an excellent read.
Speaker 4: Why are why are we afraid to say grief? Why
Speaker 4: are we afraid to talk about it? I find talking
Speaker 4: about death, especially in North American culture.
Speaker 1: It's I keep it down. Why tell me the answer
Speaker 1: to this existential question?
Speaker 5: Oh, that that's why you're doing specifically.
Speaker 1: But you have a good input on you have a good.
Speaker 5: Thought on how to speak to people who are.
Speaker 4: Grieving or so, I why sorry? On why it is
Speaker 4: that we talk about it so little? Why is there
Speaker 4: a little bit of an air right now? Mission Because
Speaker 4: there's grief and there's states.
Speaker 5: Well, especially the kind of the kind of death this
Speaker 5: is is very scary. When we say, we don't necessarily
Speaker 5: say your cancer a cancer. Would you say a suicide
Speaker 5: or your suicide his suicide.
Speaker 3: It's like we give it.
Speaker 5: It's like hot coal, and we give it back to
Speaker 5: the dead and as fast as you possibly can.
Speaker 3: And I think because we're frightened for ourselves, as we
Speaker 3: well should be.
Speaker 5: But I think the only way around that is to
Speaker 5: discuss it more and to talk about it and to
Speaker 5: be asked questions about it. You know, in the wake
Speaker 5: of Russell's death, people would often say did you know
Speaker 5: which I personally don't have the best reaction to you,
Speaker 5: because I don't know if it's for me or for him.
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about what should you say?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, first of all, you should say whatever
Speaker 5: the hell you want to say, as long as it's
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to police people's reaction to grief, as
Speaker 5: long as it's authentic and it's sincere and not just
Speaker 5: sort of rubber necking it a horror story and using
Speaker 5: your grief for this. I think you should just go
Speaker 5: with declarative statements you did in the way, well sort
Speaker 5: of where you said you know you said, tell me
Speaker 5: about him. I wish I knew him. It must have
Speaker 5: been wonderful. What a big life. That's more than this
Speaker 5: one moment.
Speaker 1: That's that's beautiful.
Speaker 4: I've heard you say part of grief is becoming on
Speaker 4: the side of the living.
Speaker 1: Once again, explain that to me.
Speaker 5: Well, if you've ever grieved someone, you know that. Especially
Speaker 5: right away. There's this sort of almost embarrassing thing I felt,
Speaker 5: which is I was receiving all of these wonderful condolences
Speaker 5: and I felt like I was ill equipped or did
Speaker 5: not have the shelving to accept them, because everybody had
Speaker 5: committed the sin of not being able to bring my
Speaker 5: friend back, and I just wanted to do whatever he
Speaker 5: wanted to do.
Speaker 3: So we had a memorial service.
Speaker 5: I turned into what I call in the book a
Speaker 5: funeral zilla, where.
Speaker 3: I was just like, is it hard to shut down
Speaker 3: Fifth Avenue for an hour?
Speaker 5: Maybe we should? Why are these programs not bound with ribbon?
Speaker 5: Where is the gold lead?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 5: And I'm like, Okay, somebody needed to sort of pull
Speaker 5: me aside and say, you know, he's not going to
Speaker 5: be going to the memorial service, And honestly, at that moment, no,
Speaker 5: I did not know that, right.
Speaker 4: So is it like changing that focus to back to
Speaker 4: present tense.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, and also change into what he would want, do
Speaker 5: you know, Because again, even and especially with someone who
Speaker 5: dies by suicide, they are more than their last act
Speaker 5: of free will. And we had an entire friendship and
Speaker 5: an entire life together where I know that he wanted
Speaker 5: more from me than to just focus on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a beautiful book.
Speaker 4: You will laugh, you will think, I promise you, But
Speaker 4: it's also a tribute to your friend Russell.
Speaker 1: Thank you for chatting with us very much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Grief is, Grief is for people, is available now, Sloan Crosley, everybody,
Speaker 4: and we're.
Speaker 1: Gonna take a quick break and then we work back
Speaker 1: after this. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4: My guest Tonight is a University of Kentucky basketball legend
Speaker 4: and an NBA shooting star who has written a memoir
Speaker 4: called It's Hard for Me to Live with Me. Please
Speaker 4: welcome Rex Chatman.
Speaker 1: A right, A right, this book, you lay it out.
Speaker 1: You are.
Speaker 4: I know you from basketball, some people know you from
Speaker 4: social media.
Speaker 1: You have a podcast. In this book.
Speaker 4: You talk about your addiction, your recovery, how difficult was
Speaker 4: it for you to write that?
Speaker 7: People have been telling me I should write a book
Speaker 7: for a long time. I never really understood why. And
Speaker 7: then Seth Davis, the guy who co wrote the author,
Speaker 7: who co wrote the book with me.
Speaker 6: I've known Seth a long time. He called me up.
Speaker 7: I had a level of comfort that I don't know
Speaker 7: that I had with a lot of other people, and
Speaker 7: we started the process. We started it probably I told
Speaker 7: somebody today, I think it was like two years ago.
Speaker 7: It was like four years ago, because about a year
Speaker 7: in set said, hey, man, I've got another project. That's
Speaker 7: kind of time since do you mind? I said, no,
Speaker 7: I don't like talking about this anyway, So take all
Speaker 7: the time you want. I said, sure, what is it?
Speaker 7: He said, well, it's sister Jean who's one hundred and
Speaker 7: four years old.
Speaker 6: And I laughed.
Speaker 7: I said, that's the sweetest thing ever that you think
Speaker 7: I might outlive sister Jeane.
Speaker 6: So anyway, there were.
Speaker 1: Man, I resonated with so much of this. You're incredibly honest.
Speaker 4: One of the things that jumped out at me was
Speaker 4: you broke the rules and oftentimes the law a lot
Speaker 4: before kind of the big bottom.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was cheating in school. There was cheating on.
Speaker 4: Your gunnings at the law you right, There was driving
Speaker 4: with a suspended license. There was breaking tons of curfews.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean every single rule breaker.
Speaker 1: But then it really.
Speaker 4: Seemed like it all crashed in twenty fourteen when you
Speaker 4: get arrested for stealing from an apple store?
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: Not you, okay? But I mean, by the way, I
Speaker 1: didn't just bring you out here. Yeah, I'm asking a
Speaker 1: question that I should get to it.
Speaker 4: The perks of being an athlete and being a successful athlete,
Speaker 4: is that.
Speaker 1: What allowed you to cut?
Speaker 7: I think so just talking about it in the green
Speaker 7: room really with Larry Hughes, my as Simon and Schuster guy.
Speaker 7: My last two years of high school, I have dyslexia,
Speaker 7: and I didn't know any of that though. I just
Speaker 7: knew higher math and science and all that stuff. I
Speaker 7: would sort of check out, like how are you guys
Speaker 7: getting this?
Speaker 6: This is not easy?
Speaker 7: And then I'm being told it's kind of common sense,
Speaker 7: and I just kind of I quit. I'm not going
Speaker 7: to be a math teacher. Why do I need to
Speaker 7: know this? And so that was and then I'd cheat.
Speaker 7: But my last two.
Speaker 6: Years of high school, I just left school early after.
Speaker 7: Lunch, and because I was a good basketball player, like
Speaker 7: even in high school. Well, they can't afford to sit me, right,
Speaker 7: what kind of craziness this is?
Speaker 6: That?
Speaker 7: But I left and the only time I got in trouble,
Speaker 7: assistant principal called me.
Speaker 6: In one day after school. For two years, I've.
Speaker 7: Done this, and I thought I was in trouble, and
Speaker 7: he said, listen, Rex, I don't mind you going home
Speaker 7: after lunch, but don't be washing your car out there
Speaker 7: when the school buses are coming by.
Speaker 1: This also shows.
Speaker 4: How good you were at basketball well, because you know,
Speaker 4: maybe I could put up seven points, but if I
Speaker 4: skipped school, they're like, hey, cost, you're not that good.
Speaker 7: Yeah, listen, man, you played tennis and played at a
Speaker 7: very high level.
Speaker 6: Going and playing you know you did well.
Speaker 1: He really did.
Speaker 7: He went to Illinois and played tennis. And anybody that
Speaker 7: goes to college and plays a sport Division one, Division two, especially,
Speaker 7: that's all your time, That's right. I didn't really have
Speaker 7: the I didn't have that probably the capacity for the
Speaker 7: school part of it, but I was having to go
Speaker 7: every day, and I remember sitting in because it takes
Speaker 7: all your time, and for me, back in the day.
Speaker 7: We can only play basketball like three four hours a
Speaker 7: day by rule. And so I'd be in a Geography
Speaker 7: of Kentucky class sitting there.
Speaker 8: It's such a complicated class, and uh, and I'd be
Speaker 8: sitting there and thinking, well, Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan,
Speaker 8: Ron Harper, all these guys are are working out right now,
Speaker 8: and I'm stuck in this class, and it's my only
Speaker 8: avenue to get where they are, and I have to do.
Speaker 6: What is being told. You know, probably cheating on my.
Speaker 7: Tests weren't the best thing, but I only did that once.
Speaker 1: But as I read this, it, man, you worked hard.
Speaker 4: You know you were you know you were going I
Speaker 4: was a nice buy, Yeah, but you were getting a
Speaker 4: key to the gym at night and having you and
Speaker 4: your buddy and having a rebound for you. I mean
Speaker 4: you you might.
Speaker 7: Have been a rule breaker. That was the only thing
Speaker 7: that I had. That was the only thing I felt
Speaker 7: like I could control. And no, I worked at it.
Speaker 7: I was obsessed by it. I told someone earlier. I
Speaker 7: used to wake up at midnight on the East Coast. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I'd fall asleep, wake up just in a sweat, thinking
Speaker 7: my guy, Gerald Madkins, somebody I know out in La
Speaker 7: my grade.
Speaker 6: It's at the park.
Speaker 7: Right now, it's nine o'clock. I need to do some
Speaker 7: push ups. Let me go run a mile. I'll come
Speaker 7: back and go to bed like obsessed like that. Somebody's
Speaker 7: working harder and I can't allow that.
Speaker 1: So that same.
Speaker 4: Level of commitment, that stubbornness, that anxiety over working, How
Speaker 4: do you does that help you in recovery or in
Speaker 4: a way?
Speaker 1: Is it like, is it hard to go to recovery
Speaker 1: because I'm a bad mother. I can beat this.
Speaker 7: I know I can beat I think that's probably the
Speaker 7: mindset that got me there, right. No, I for sure
Speaker 7: went through, you know, very first, when I started taking
Speaker 7: vic it in or oxy contin. I just remember one day,
Speaker 7: very vividly, thinking, oh can I cuss?
Speaker 1: You can cuss? I think already?
Speaker 6: Can I say say? Okay? I thought to myself, off shit, No,
Speaker 6: I thought you.
Speaker 1: Played against Michael Jordan.
Speaker 6: You've heard I've heard it all.
Speaker 7: But I was thinking, all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 7: I was taking this medicine. It was saying take it
Speaker 7: once every whatever, all this and where I'm making that call.
Speaker 7: All of a sudden one day it just flipped where
Speaker 7: that medicine was telling me when to take it, and
Speaker 7: before I know it, Oh, I was only supposed to
Speaker 7: take three today.
Speaker 6: Now I'm the four, and now I'm the five.
Speaker 7: And then I'd get to seven or eight and I go,
Speaker 7: this is an issue, man, and I'd cut it down
Speaker 7: to four or five and then guess what, maybe an
Speaker 7: argum or whatever and there and then that was from
Speaker 7: the time I was fifteen or sixteen year old, though,
Speaker 7: I started having some depression and whatnot and really started
Speaker 7: coping that way then because I didn't know how to cope,
Speaker 7: I would, well, I would sneak off to the racetrack
Speaker 7: all the time bet horses.
Speaker 6: That was what my dad and I always did. I
Speaker 6: just thought it was normal.
Speaker 4: He talks a lot about in this book, you know,
Speaker 4: not just the pills, but also a horse.
Speaker 6: Ray.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I liked basketball. I love thoroughbred racing.
Speaker 1: So and the only horses these people know are the
Speaker 1: ones in Central park Y. I like those.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about because as you're talking, and you know,
Speaker 4: you discuss before games in high school, you always would
Speaker 4: vomit and yeah as a nerve. And then but then
Speaker 4: you also talked about how your dad, who was a
Speaker 4: basketball coach, would do this as well.
Speaker 7: See this wasn't that, Yes, yes, yeah, he used to
Speaker 7: be a coach and I would be in his locker
Speaker 7: rooms before games.
Speaker 6: He'd give his pep talk and they'd.
Speaker 7: Go in the restroom, stick his fingers down his throat
Speaker 7: and throw up, and a lot of times it was
Speaker 7: dry heaves and I just hear him in there. But
Speaker 7: that was how you got ready for a game. I
Speaker 7: don't know if he did that when he played. I
Speaker 7: just know he did it. We never talked about it,
Speaker 7: but then I started doing it well. I did it
Speaker 7: out of nerves. He brought his whole team to watch,
Speaker 7: like a third.
Speaker 6: Grade game of mine. I didn't know they were coming.
Speaker 7: I went out on the court, puked everywhere at mid court,
Speaker 7: I mean big throw up, and they cleaned it up.
Speaker 6: I felt like Superman. After that.
Speaker 7: I was ready to go. And from that moment, I
Speaker 7: was a regular puker. I puked every single game from
Speaker 7: third grade till my second or third year in the NBA.
Speaker 7: And then I was just like and I would stick
Speaker 7: my fingers down my throat if I was playing bad,
Speaker 7: one of my teammates might be like BRO did you
Speaker 7: stick your fingers on your throat in there.
Speaker 6: And throw up. But I'm reading this and I didn't
Speaker 6: realize that.
Speaker 1: I think it's crazy.
Speaker 4: This is anxiety, man, And it's also your dad had
Speaker 4: a similar situation. And when did you face that when.
Speaker 6: Out of rehab?
Speaker 7: Last time twenty fourteen. I've been cleaned for nine years.
Speaker 7: I'm not the model.
Speaker 6: I smoke marijuana.
Speaker 7: I yeah, but I used medical marijuana. I have cores
Speaker 7: like from time to time. Nine years clean from opioids,
Speaker 7: I think I really started delving.
Speaker 6: I hit. I was broke. I was broken.
Speaker 7: I'd embarrass myself, my family, my kids, my ex wife,
Speaker 7: all of my friends and my friend's kids that looked
Speaker 7: up to me. I felt like, man, if you're going
Speaker 7: to live, you better start tackling some of why you
Speaker 7: do the things you do.
Speaker 1: Dad is in here a lot.
Speaker 6: Yeah, tough on you.
Speaker 4: I mean, one night time you scored forty points, you
Speaker 4: come home.
Speaker 1: Dad's gonna like me.
Speaker 4: And he was mad that he didn't play better defense. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and I played collegiate.
Speaker 1: Tennis my dad.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think, you know, if you would have been
Speaker 4: harder on me, I could have been a better pro.
Speaker 1: Well, And I'm thinking well, which one is.
Speaker 4: I don't want that, but I also wouldn't mind made
Speaker 4: a couple more bucks playing tennis, right, So what's the balance, dude?
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 7: Okay, I don't know because, to be honest, like, I
Speaker 7: never in my life my dad played professional basketball.
Speaker 6: I played college I never in.
Speaker 7: My life, my whole life was on the floor with
Speaker 7: my dad playing basketball. He never rebounded for me. He
Speaker 7: never did any of that stuff. Also, I didn't want
Speaker 7: him to do that.
Speaker 6: I was focused on what I was doing.
Speaker 7: I was watching his teams, watching everything he did, listening
Speaker 7: to everything. I was absorbing it. And I think he
Speaker 7: knew that I was. I honestly think he knew that
Speaker 7: I would be too nice if and maybe fizzle out
Speaker 7: as a college player or whatever. He knew I had
Speaker 7: the talent. The problem is I did very much similar
Speaker 7: things with my own son, and he didn't have the
Speaker 7: same talent.
Speaker 6: He was way tougher than I.
Speaker 7: Was, but I treated him almost like my dad treated me.
Speaker 7: Sometimes I was better, but still I would. I think
Speaker 7: that's what we're all trying to do a little better
Speaker 7: than our parents. But it's a hard balance. And you know,
Speaker 7: I becoming a professional basketball player was a dream come true.
Speaker 7: And it's the one thing my dad like as it's complicated.
Speaker 7: I love him to death. I appreciate everything he's done
Speaker 7: for me. My mom the same way.
Speaker 6: Are there some things I wish we'd have done differently? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Who's not that way?
Speaker 1: I mean my mom's here, you know.
Speaker 9: And yeah, and.
Speaker 6: There's on and on black woman history.
Speaker 1: Now that's right. Yeah, And here's a list of things
Speaker 1: she should have done better. That's a job, that's a joke,
Speaker 1: you know them.
Speaker 4: What do you have to say to people listening who
Speaker 4: might be middle school phenom in a sport, or high
Speaker 4: school phenom and a sport. Everything's in front of them,
Speaker 4: it seems like, and there's a reality.
Speaker 1: Of this that you have lived.
Speaker 4: What do you say to somebody who might be in
Speaker 4: the throes of addiction right now?
Speaker 1: Do you have a message or a thought?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 7: I guess it's really just find somebody to talk to.
Speaker 7: I had so much pride that, you know, I was
Speaker 7: this King Rex type thing, this image, and I had
Speaker 7: so much pride about.
Speaker 6: Not living up to anything.
Speaker 7: I had all these secret, you know, insecurities, and you know,
Speaker 7: your pride can get in the way a lot and
Speaker 7: Once you let that move a little bit, then you
Speaker 7: can start to see a light at the end of
Speaker 7: the tunnel. However, I also recommend therapy. If I would
Speaker 7: have if I'd have been able to have therapy, like
Speaker 7: as a teenager eighteen nineteen years old, I feel like
Speaker 7: I don't know if it would have changed anything, but
Speaker 7: I know it I had a better shot of managing
Speaker 7: the stuff that goes along with being a popular and
Speaker 7: kind of famous athlete.
Speaker 1: That's a great message. Thank you for this book. I
Speaker 1: loved it. Give the Man Next content everybody.
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