WEBVTT - Chicago Golf Club 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.520 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.600 This week is the US Senior Women's Open, a really 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.600 exciting event being held at the historic Chicago Golf Club. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.920 Chicago Golf Club is one of the best golf courses 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.599 in the country and also one of the most private, 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:22.079 especially with coverage and different things. So really exciting to 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.520 get to talk to both the historian Chicago Golf Club, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:30.480 John Moran and the golf course superintendent Scott Bordner. I 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.000 hope you guys enjoy this podcast. The first thirty minutes 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.600 or so is with John, and then the back half 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.680 of it is with Scott. If you're in the Chicago area, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.440 be sure to come out to Chicago Golf great opportunity 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.040 to walk one of the best golf courses in the country, 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.760 no ropes, right with the players, and see some of 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.400 the greatest architecture in the world. Without further ado, here's 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.680 John Moran and Scott Bordner. I miss a green, for example, 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.240 I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.520 I'm really upset. And when I find my ball. 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.200 In a brid Egg Frida Egg, the dread Frida Egg, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.160 fridaggg bride egg Lie. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:37.240 I'm about ready to run off the golf course. There's 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.399 a lot of confusion I think in the world of 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.640 golf with the first. You know, Shinnacock was the first 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.440 established club. I think there's a course in Charleston that 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.840 says or a place in Charleston that says they had 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.360 the first golf I know Saint Andrews and Yonkers claimed 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.480 something Chicago Golf is the first eighteen hole club. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.280 Right correct. In fact, the first eighteen course was at 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.720 the original Chicago Golf and I have contemporaneous newspaper articles 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.280 about it. It was built at the Belmont Course which 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.000 is now the Downers Grove Park district before we moved 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.880 to Wheaton. So that, in fact was the first eighteen 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.880 old course in the United States. And we have an 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.840 old letter from the USGA getting testament to that. 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.640 So you guys have you're the only one with proof 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.320 that is the first eighteen hall course. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.280 Well, we have a letter. I'm taking that as proof 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:27.040 whether it is or not. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.760 The founder of Chicago Golf Club, Charles Blair MacDonald, among others, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.480 was really instrumental in bringing golf from abroad and the 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.280 first what sparked his interest was around a golf in 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.480 Lake Forest, which is north of city. Right a field 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.600 golf really kind of what today would be called pasture golf. 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:50.200 Right He actually McDonald went to university, and university he 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.560 left when he was sixteen years old, but he went 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.280 to university in Saint Andrews and there he learned the 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.760 game from old Tom Morris and actually competed against young 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.320 time Morris. So when he came back at the Chicago 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.320 fire had just happened, and you couldn't be in business 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.520 in Chicago and have some past time. They would look 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.880 at you like your nuts. So he went twenty years 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.280 without really touching a golf club unless he went overseas 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.280 on a trip. And they had the Colembian Exposition of 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.840 the World's Fair in Chicago in eighteen ninety three I 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.240 think it was, and the had a contingent come over 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:21.639 from the UK and they were going to be there 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.560 for two or three years and they wanted something to do. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.760 And so the organizer of it, Hbart Chattfield Taylor, heard 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.040 about this and knew that McDonald knew something about golf. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.640 So Hobart Chatfield Taylor took them up to his in 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.000 laws state in Lake Forest and McDonald laid out a 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.760 six holl golf course for the guys from the UK 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.280 to play. I think I'm not sure he'll feature later 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.680 in the segment, but one of the guys was actually HJ. Wigham, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.400 who ended up being the third US Amateur Champion in 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.480 the United States, second and third. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:58.160 So McDonald's got he's one of the most interesting characters. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.600 I think him in tilling Hast of the old, you know, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.320 beginnings of American Golf. If you were going to describe 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.440 the way that you would portray McDonald's personality and in 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.080 a few words, how would you kind of describe what 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.400 the character through all your reading, all your research that 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.240 Cebe McDonald was. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:26.560 Strong willed, competitive, feisty, in charge. I'm right, you're wrong. 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:28.840 Did that? Did that capture it? 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:35.120 Yeah? I think so. Famously, he he protested the first 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.200 Amateur Championship. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.040 Actually Andy the first two Amateur championships that he had 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.040 agreed to play in, and he only protested them after 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.840 he finished second, so it actually took one of the 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.200 one of the reasons the USA was formed was because 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.360 he had They had decided they needed a national championship 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.000 and Newport and I think it was St Andrew's we're 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.480 going to stage this, but they're going to stage at 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.839 their own and after if he had won, I'm sure 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.080 he would have recognized that as the first one. But 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.560 since he lost, then then he said, oh, we have 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.320 to form a proper one. And that was actually one 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.680 of the beginnings of the USGA, was the move to 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.960 form formalize something that could anoint an am or champion. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.040 And he couldn't protest it anymore once it was formed, right. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:16.800 Can you imagine the pressure on him the third time 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.560 because he absolutely couldn't positively couldn't protest the third time, 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.000 could he? 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.640 So the original course, they say, was, you know, it 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:31.279 was built around the boundary boundary lined and McDonald famously 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.760 hit a left to right shot and every single hole 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.080 is a hook for out of bounds. So do you 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.359 think there was any credence in him designing a golf 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.680 course that would be really hard for him to hit 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.240 anything out of bounds? Oh? 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.440 Absolutely, I mean he was obviously super competitive and if 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.320 you remember in those days, if it doesn't make sense 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.320 to folks listening why a hook would be bad, Remember 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.320 in those days they were playing in jackets and ties 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.039 and no matter the weather, and so today the propensity 0:05:58.120 --> 0:05:59.919 is to slice the ball. In those days, it was 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.719 hooked the ball unless you were a McDonald. And he 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.240 actually sliced the ball in his bad shots. So he 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.880 certainly would have thought about that, I'm sure, because he 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.359 did that at Belmont too, it's my understanding, and he 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.880 did it here. And the urban legend, I don't know 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.400 how true it is, is that the origination of an 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.520 out of bounds role was actually at Chicago Golf because 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.320 all of the members at that point got tired of 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.880 hitting hooking their balls into the farm fields because he 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:25.440 had rided the golf course that way. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:32.720 Quite a dude. When did you become a member at 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.560 Chicago Golf Club? And I think one of the most 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.119 is one of the most fascinating stories, how you became 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:38.640 a member. 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.320 So it actually begins as a twelve year old caddy. 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.880 So my dad worked for Sears for forty plus years 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.640 and we moved around a bit, and when we moved 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.960 to Wheaton and in the early seventies, we used to 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:52.800 drive past this place and we knew it was a 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.400 golf course and there was one hole, the only hole 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.480 you could really see from the road. I remember my 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.200 dad saying, oh my god, that hole must be six 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.960 hundred year old. Long, Look how long it is? Well, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.119 it was actually our fourteenth hole, our k holes, actually 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.040 the second shortest part four on the course. But anyway, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.080 I had some friends who are older than I was, 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.720 who started caddying. And I was eleven and they were thirteen, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:15.560 and they had caddied and I couldn't caddy. And so 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.120 the next year I was big enough to tell them 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.960 I was thirteen, I was really twelve, And so I 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.480 started caddying here and I caddied here for four years, 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.320 and then I was the caddy master for three years 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.840 after that. And during that time I was not part 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.120 of the history, but I got to be here for 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.040 some of the history. I got to be here when 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.720 Ben Kreueschau shot sixty two, which we may talk about later. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:37.679 I got to caddy in the finals of the seventy 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.880 nine US Senior Amateur for a guy named leu Emmeig, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.200 And so I was here for a long time. And 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.240 interesting enough, my dad called somebody in the club and 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.640 they knew me. I had been around so long, and 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.320 they knew me, I knew them. I was probably the 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.240 safest junior member they ever had who wasn't part of 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.880 the family. And one thing another. My dad called me 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:00.960 and said, if you want to be a member Chicago Golf, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.640 you have to call this person. And I had no 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.200 inkling that this was in my future. So I was 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.800 actually a junior member here when aged twenty one and 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.520 have been. I milt the junior membership for a long time, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.480 but so I've in effect, with a couple of summers 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.080 off for college internships. I've been here since nineteen seventy seven. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.520 So there's a few people left that have been here 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.040 longer than I am, but it's it's getting fewer and fewer. 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:25.000 I'm sorry to say. 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:30.200 If if you were coming out here spectator, never had 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.040 been here before, what would be your advice to that person? 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.080 You mean, like a spectator for the event, for the event. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.200 The coolest thing about the event, well, I'm sorry, not coolest. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.040 One of the cool things about the event is that 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.840 there aren't going to be any fairway ropes, and there's 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.920 not going to be any grand stands. They're going to 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.920 let the They're gonna let the fans walk along with 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.920 the players in the fairway, which if anybody had been 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.320 here for a walker Cup, or has been to a 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.199 walker Cup that's or en amateur too. I think that's 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.040 how they do it. You're actually gonna walk the fairways 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.840 with Joyan Carner and Sally Little and Julie Kster and 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.880 Laura Davies, so that by itself will be super cool. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.760 If somebody asked me, gee, is there one place I 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.959 could go to see a lot of action, what I 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.360 would tell them is that our punch bowl green, the 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.000 twelfth green has has like a hillock that runs around it, 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:21.440 and if you stood at the top of that, you 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.120 could see them play the twelfth hole. You could see 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.920 them play the thirteenth hole, which is the edenhole. You 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.040 could see him tee off there and really play the 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.360 whole hole. You could see him putt on the eighth hole, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.839 and you could see him tee off on the ninth hole. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:38.720 That's probably the one central point I think for architecture nerds, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.080 who who you've turned my son into. Thank you. His 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.079 grades have suffered because of the Friday podcast. But if 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:50.880 for architecture nerds just going along and finding, Okay, where's 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.800 the Redan, where's the Redan? Oh my god, that's the Redan. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.480 Look at that thing that's cool all by itself. And 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.520 then even for people who wouldn't be in that of 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.080 that elk, if you go along and you see you 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.120 see the radean hole, you see the beer ritz hole, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.920 people get a sense that wow, that I've never seen 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.000 anything like that. That's really unique, really and how do 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.400 they build that in nineteen twenty three. I think that 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.720 all by itself will be really cool. Of course, the 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.440 real story or the players, we're just a backdrop for 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.920 the story. So I don't want to overplay the golf course, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.160 but I think for people who are really into it, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.560 the combination of seeing these famous players play our golf 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.160 course will be really, really amazing. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.960 I think another thing that's kind of neat about the 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.040 event that you're hosting the Senior Women's Open. It's the 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.199 first one, the inaugural one, which obviously carries a lot 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.040 of weight. But the other aspect is the game that 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.480 the senior women play versus the game that you know, 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.160 a traditional say traditional US Open would play. The game 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.360 is far closer to the game that this golf course 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:03.520 was built to host. It with a you know, lower trajectory, shots, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:08.000 less spent, you know, a running shot more often than 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.840 you know, a high spinning shot that we see. So 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.320 the golf course and the architecture should actually show better 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:19.080 and more representative of what they intended when they laid 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:20.840 it out. Not it's not going to be perfect because 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.920 I know some of some of these ladies still hit 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.760 the ball, you know, pretty long distance. It should be 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.360 a lot closer and we should see shots using the 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:33.679 contours more so than than in most USGA events. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.400 I'm really excited to see a few things. I'm excited 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.679 to see them play. They're a dan and see if 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.520 anybody's gonna kind of try to run it up around 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.440 the corner of the dan. I'm excited our punch ball 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.079 hole every day every day play is a part four 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.280 and they're just gonna play from a back tee is 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.760 a par five. And the interesting thing is that there's 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.040 there are two cross bunkers that go across the fairway. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.760 And I had a qualifier from Wisconsin, Maggie leaf out 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:02.439 a couple of weeks ago through a friend of a friend, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.200 and I didn't say anything to her, but when we 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.440 got to the twelfth hole, I was watching everything she 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.600 did because I was fascinated to see could she drive 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.400 it past that. How would she take that on? And 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.400 then as a part five, she wouldn't, you know, Laura 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.760 Davies maybe long enough to hit it into We'll see. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.400 But from that back teep, I'm sure she will be 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.880 but I knew Maggie couldn't. And but the layup area 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.400 is pretty complicated because there's a there's a crossbunker in 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.000 the fairway, and then there's there's a central bunker right 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:31.559 in the middle of the fairway, so you've got to 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.480 navigate that, and depending on how you navigate that, you 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.880 could have a blind pitch into the punch bowl green. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.640 I'm really fascinated to watch watch the players take that 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.200 on and see how they do it. I'm also really 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.839 fascinated to see where the USJ puts the pins and 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.760 how the women navigate the greens. From a short game 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.400 perspective and from a putting perspective, it'll be really interesting. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.320 The other cool thing is it's closer not only to 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.360 what Rainer did in twenty three. You know, we had 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.320 the twenty eight Parker Cup, and my guess is they 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.440 might be hitting the ball some of the same relative 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.680 same distances that Bobby Jones and Chick Evans would, but 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.880 it's also probably closer to what I play to what 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.360 the normal MEMBERSHILD play and so seeing that for us 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:15.400 I think will be really cool. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.200 There's a lot of uh, you know, famous pros that 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.000 are into architecture that prefer watching the women's game because 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.680 you get to see so much more of the architectural preatures. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.200 That's what I'm really excited to see is to get 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.440 out here and see how they how they play the 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.640 golf course and see different shots like even the first hole, 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.240 which is a quasi two shot ra Dan playing into 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.199 that green with a with a long iron. It will 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.720 be really fun to watch. And you highlight that punch 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.880 bowl is a great spot to watch from, and you 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.920 could see everything from eagles too. If you don't hit 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:51.640 a good drive all a sudden, that's a tough part, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.920 right for a part five. So when you were a 0:13:55.040 --> 0:14:01.240 kid caddying here, did you know how special this place was? 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.559 No? I knew pretty much immediately I twelve years old. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.000 I wouldn't have verbilized it. I knew pretty much immediately 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.120 that it had taken a special place in my heart. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.400 And really the first inkling I had of how special 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.320 it was when Ben Crenshaw started staying here during the 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.120 Western Open, and we obviously had a cottage, so it 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:25.720 was a convenient place to play and he could come 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.840 out here and practice. But he was here my sense anyway, 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.520 he was here because he wanted to be here and 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.480 because this place held some some uniqueness for him, and 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.560 I knew he was into history. And that's the first 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.880 really inkling of I knew. The members talked about, gee, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:41.720 this is the beer It's hole, that's the red An Hole. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.040 But the linkage to no that actually means something, and 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.080 there's way more than just Chicago golf, and there's an 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.040 important historical linkage. That's the first point at which I 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.800 really got a sense that, holy cow, this is something, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.400 this is something really cool. And so I probably got 0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:59.760 a sense of that in the eighties or something like that. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.160 And we had a significant agronomic upgrade and around two 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.160 thousand when John Jennings came here, and at that point, 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.560 all of a sudden, some of the features really took 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:15.000 on a sharper edge, I'll say, and you could really see, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.520 holy cow, that spine running through the middle of the 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.760 leaven hole or leaven hole, whichever is. That's amazing. You know, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:24.120 I used to hit the ball up there and it 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.880 would just stick. Now it bounces anyway under the sun. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.760 You really get got a greater appreciation of it. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.280 Yeah, that green is unbelievable. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.240 I cherry picked that because I know it's your favorite. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:41.120 Yeah, I just I love that green. It's a source 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.960 of so many bogies, of people hitting it into and 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.440 just shutting on the wrong side. It's fine. So what 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.120 would you say during your time catting? What was your 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.800 most memorable loop? You touched on? Crunshaw sixty two finals 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.960 of the Senior Am. 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.440 Yeah, you know, certainly the sixty two. The crunch out 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.200 came out after a round after a tournament round of 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.040 the of the Western Open, and our pro at the time, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.120 Don Stickney, had played college golf with Nicholas and Weis Goff, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.480 and so they put on a little exhibition, the three 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.240 of them and Ed Snead and I got the kart 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.800 caddy for them, and it was really just me and them, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.120 and there was probably twenty members watching or something like that. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.320 And Ben finished three three three, which is eagle, birdie, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.000 birdie to shoot sixty two. Unfortunately, somebody flipped him a 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.040 second ball at the first tee that he hit. We 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:32.920 didn't play it. We played the original one, but that 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.560 made it not count. But to me, that's the course 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.680 record and I'm standing by it. But just watching him 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.680 go in the zone. But also, you know, he is 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.240 my number one golf idle Chick Evans who was another 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.920 member who was also a member here would probably be 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040 number two. But to be to have that memory of 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.880 my golf title and to see him like right up 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.000 close and personal, that certainly is the most memorable around. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.800 I mean, I other memorable things are helping. You know, 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.480 Missus Brewster had make a whole in one, you know, 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.000 rest in peace, Missus Brewster, But that would certainly be 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.560 the number one. He was like a rock star then, 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.240 you know, he was a rock star. Well in my 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.480 house he still is. My kids aren't quite sure why, 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:15.440 but he still. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:15.840 Is in my house. 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.760 Gentle, then you bet you so? When did you so? 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.160 Now you're you serve the role as a historian at 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:25.040 Chicago Golf. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.760 Yes, so we have a small history committee and it's 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.000 not a new thing necessarily. I mean, the biggest thing 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.399 that had been done is in nineteen ninety two was 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.640 our centennial and one of our members had gotten Ross 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.160 Goodner to write a centennial book, which is a really 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:46.560 fabulous history book. About seven or eight years ago, our 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.480 board decided to take what had been an old ladies 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.359 lounge that hadn't been used in how many decades and 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.160 turned it into a history room, which was a good thing. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.919 What it also did, though, it created a deadline of 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.040 oh my god, we better that thing up with things 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.800 that are compelling, and frankly, we've made a lot of 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.320 progress with saving our history and things, but it's going 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.680 to be you know, it'll keep me occupied and out 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.720 of my wife's here for many years to come. But 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.680 there's a lot of there's a lot of great history 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.000 here that we don't know we have in the building, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.639 and I'm sure we'll touch on that and or we 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.120 need to seek out a newspaper, articles and things like that, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.440 so we really understand our history. And it's part of 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.159 the reason for that is sure, this is a historical club, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.000 but we want Chicago Golf to be Chicago Golf fifty 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.520 years from now, one hundred years from now, and who 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.280 we were in our history and the culture that we've 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.639 had over all that time is an important part of 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:41.680 keeping it that way. 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.480 So You've been diving into all different types of sources 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.679 of information, the stuff around the clubhouse. What's been the 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.200 most rewarding aspect over the years of being in this role. 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.560 Is there a moment or you know, a find. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.120 Well, Actually, the thing that's sticks out is I had 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.040 a mental list of things I wanted to do for many, 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.359 many years, and one of the things I wanted that 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.320 was on my to do list was to create some 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.399 kind of a document or some appreciation for what I 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.840 think of as the architectural lineage of this place and 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.560 the fact that we have the template holes, the fact 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.119 that there are other instances of the templeate holes, and 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.760 here are pictures of the other template holes, and someday 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.520 I was going to do this when I'm retired, and 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.080 this stupid blogger from downtown Chicago beat me to it. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:31.880 He saved me a lot of work, but he beat 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.960 me to it. He took my copyrighted idea and he 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:35.640 made it his own. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.480 It must be a smart guy. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.679 Really sorry. I actually got his autograph on the printed 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:43.880 copy that I made from it. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.239 Yeah, we gotta we gotta get back into those. So 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.280 it's they've taken him backsteat recently, but we gotta I 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.720 mean John cavalieric gotta get in there and a few 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.000 of those. But it's they're so cool. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.159 It's interesting. You know, the members of our history committee, 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.280 like in most club you know, have different interests and 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.960 different available amounts of time. And one of our members, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.640 Jeff Kelly, is really into old clubs, and so we've 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.399 got a lot of old clubs. My passion really is 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.720 the golf course, and I think if you ask the 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.480 typical Chicago golf member, the golf courses what this place 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:19.639 is about and increasing my so I really appreciate the 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.600 chance through Andy, what you've done and other people have 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.880 done to better appreciate our golf course in context has 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.399 been a great thing for me. And you know, not 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.400 every member is into it the way I am, or 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.239