WEBVTT - Jen Palmieri 0:00:00.490 --> 0:00:15.460 Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:15.490 --> 0:00:18.180 back to this week's Work in Progress, friends. Before we 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.900 get started, I have something important I want to share 0:00:20.940 --> 0:00:24.140 with you. September is Hunger Action Month, which means it's 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.270 just wrapped up, but the need certainly hasn't. And that's 0:00:27.310 --> 0:00:30.180 why our friends at Feeding America are encouraging everyone to 0:00:30.210 --> 0:00:33.780 play their part in helping people facing hunger. Addressing hunger 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.180 is one of the most important things that we can 0:00:36.220 --> 0:00:42.060 do in society, friends, because hunger has such implications beyond 0:00:42.140 --> 0:00:45.900 simply an empty dinner table. Hunger affects people's ability to 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.279 pursue their education. It affects whether or not children are 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.000 learning well in school. It affects people's opportunities to succeed 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.200 in their careers, at their sports, and in their lives 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:00.580 in general. Everyone needs and deserves to have access to food, 0:01:01.220 --> 0:01:04.040 but currently rising costs are leading to far too many 0:01:04.100 --> 0:01:07.500 people having to make tough decisions, like choosing between paying 0:01:07.550 --> 0:01:09.230 for utilities or putting food. 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:09.670 On the table. 0:01:10.170 --> 0:01:14.810 And this simply cannot stand. In 2024, nearly 48 million 0:01:14.870 --> 0:01:19.590 people in the United States, including more than 14 million children, 0:01:19.830 --> 0:01:23.830 experienced food insecurity. And today we know that's gotten far 0:01:23.890 --> 0:01:27.130 worse But with the cancellation of so many SNAP benefits 0:01:27.550 --> 0:01:30.850 and with rising food costs and incredible pressure on households, 0:01:31.430 --> 0:01:34.809 it's costing more to be able to provide less. And 0:01:34.890 --> 0:01:37.500 budgets in crisis are making it harder for families to 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.420 afford their food while covering other essentials. Hunger affects communities 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.980 across the country, and it can feel overwhelming. But here's 0:01:46.020 --> 0:01:50.100 the thing. Together, we can make a difference. Every single 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.920 contribution can help provide greater access to the food people need. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.460 So whether it's for Hunger Action Month, or as you 0:01:57.500 --> 0:02:00.120 know that winter is approaching, I'm going to ask each 0:02:00.170 --> 0:02:04.710 of us to play our parts by donating at feedingamerica.org 0:02:05.070 --> 0:02:09.529 slash workinprogress. I really believe that together we can make 0:02:09.570 --> 0:02:12.510 a difference and make sure families have a little bit 0:02:12.550 --> 0:02:16.450 of an easier time tomorrow than they might have had yesterday. Again, 0:02:16.510 --> 0:02:22.670 that's feedingamerica.org slash workinprogress. Now do we have a smarty 0:02:22.710 --> 0:02:25.590 for you, one of the most brilliant political minds I know, 0:02:26.030 --> 0:02:28.630 who happens to be really fun to have a cocktail with. 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.500 A brilliant storyteller, a director, a producer, a mind that 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.419 I just want to pick all the time. Today we're 0:02:35.460 --> 0:02:38.810 joined by Jen Palmieri. Jen has spent more than two 0:02:38.870 --> 0:02:42.840 decades inside some of the biggest moments in our political world, 0:02:42.910 --> 0:02:45.799 working in both the Clinton and Obama White Houses. She 0:02:45.820 --> 0:02:48.100 was at the Center for American Progress. She worked on 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.940 presidential campaigns. She was Secretary Clinton's communications director during 2016. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:52.210 I mean.... 0:02:54.210 --> 0:02:56.190 I'd be here all day reading her resume if I 0:02:56.230 --> 0:03:00.360 didn't decide to paraphrase it. Jen has a collective experience 0:03:00.380 --> 0:03:04.639 that has given her a uniquely close view of American 0:03:04.700 --> 0:03:08.799 politics and, frankly, a vantage point to understand what it's 0:03:08.820 --> 0:03:11.980 going to take for us to throw all this identity 0:03:12.020 --> 0:03:15.639 stuff in the garbage and unite the country and what 0:03:15.660 --> 0:03:20.010 it will take for the Dems to reclaim power and 0:03:20.770 --> 0:03:25.440 hopefully rescue the soul of America. Jen decided to look 0:03:25.500 --> 0:03:29.190 beyond Washington and dip back into her Southern roots. She 0:03:29.230 --> 0:03:32.670 grew up in Mississippi and South Carolina, and she decided 0:03:32.690 --> 0:03:34.530 to go back to the South and has made a 0:03:34.630 --> 0:03:39.390 six-part documentary series called Long Play, Winning the South. And 0:03:39.450 --> 0:03:43.470 it is so good, you guys. It asks questions about 0:03:43.630 --> 0:03:47.790 how progressives can rebuild political power in a region that 0:03:47.810 --> 0:03:51.650 they largely stopped competing in and asks why they did 0:03:51.670 --> 0:03:55.100 that in the first place. She traveled all over the South, 0:03:55.180 --> 0:03:59.420 meeting with voters and communities, engaging in history, and really 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.620 examining the changing demographics that are reshaping our national map. 0:04:04.380 --> 0:04:06.750 I can't think of anybody better to talk to as 0:04:06.790 --> 0:04:11.110 the 2026 midterms are approaching and figure out how we 0:04:11.190 --> 0:04:13.450 answer some of our big questions about where we go 0:04:13.490 --> 0:04:16.810 from here and how are we feeling about the next 0:04:16.870 --> 0:04:19.830 election and what the hell should we be doing to 0:04:19.870 --> 0:04:23.750 get prepared. So let's go dive in with the brilliant 0:04:23.810 --> 0:04:38.550 Jen Palmieri. Jen, I'm so happy you're here today. I'm 0:04:38.730 --> 0:04:40.739 so thrilled to have you on the show. You are 0:04:40.810 --> 0:04:45.000 one of the most dynamic, intelligent women I've ever shared 0:04:45.060 --> 0:04:47.500 space with. I'm so lucky that from time to time 0:04:47.540 --> 0:04:51.250 I get to be your dinner date. And you manage 0:04:51.310 --> 0:04:55.060 to be such a brilliant political brain, but you're also 0:04:55.250 --> 0:04:58.040 really fun. And you remind me that working to build 0:04:58.060 --> 0:05:03.599 a better world is actually really enjoyable. And the stories 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.339 that you tell and the way you bring people in, 0:05:05.380 --> 0:05:09.330 it's all so amazing. But I don't want to start now. 0:05:09.470 --> 0:05:12.270 I actually want to go back. Because when you become 0:05:12.310 --> 0:05:15.750 somebody that people know... They know your work. They know 0:05:16.270 --> 0:05:19.410 the woman you became in the world who holds these positions. 0:05:19.870 --> 0:05:23.750 But I want to know where little Navy brat Jen 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.560 might have been at 10. You know, I know your 0:05:27.580 --> 0:05:29.940 dad was in the Navy. My granddad was in the Navy. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.190 I'm like, I have a real soft spot for it. 0:05:32.779 --> 0:05:35.160 And I know you moved around a lot. So what 0:05:35.180 --> 0:05:37.800 was your life like when you were approaching double digits 0:05:37.860 --> 0:05:38.480 as a child? 0:05:38.500 --> 0:05:42.130 Yeah. I was, I'm the youngest of four girls. 0:05:42.870 --> 0:05:46.090 So I had a lot of role models, you know, 0:05:46.310 --> 0:05:49.870 I watched, I think I grew up really observant because 0:05:49.890 --> 0:05:52.810 we moved around so much. So, you know, if you 0:05:53.130 --> 0:05:55.839 are constantly, you know, I went to like nine different schools. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.839 So if you're, if you, if every 18 months or 0:05:57.860 --> 0:06:02.700 so you're picking up and moving, you become very, I think, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.000 astute at reading a room, understanding what the incentive structures 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.450 are in your grade school or, you know, And kind 0:06:10.490 --> 0:06:12.870 of where people are coming from, which I think helped 0:06:12.910 --> 0:06:13.910 me a lot in politics. 0:06:14.150 --> 0:06:19.410 So I was always a big reader. I had three elders. 0:06:19.870 --> 0:06:22.479 I mean, my family was busy. And so I felt 0:06:22.510 --> 0:06:26.100 like I was a little... I had probably more independence 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.000 than my sisters did. But I watched a lot of 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:31.020 what they did. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:32.500 And I felt. 0:06:32.580 --> 0:06:36.179 I think I felt... I learned a lot by watching. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.750 Them and thinking... they're probably worrying too much than they should. 0:06:39.850 --> 0:06:43.549 They're awesome. They're beautiful. They're smart there. 0:06:43.710 --> 0:06:45.990 And so I think I got a sense at a 0:06:46.050 --> 0:06:49.940 young age of, you know, so I think maybe things 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.440 I was willing to challenge to do more daring things 0:06:54.460 --> 0:06:58.140 or think more things are possible than my sisters might have, 0:06:58.290 --> 0:07:00.630 because I saw how they operate in the world. And 0:07:00.670 --> 0:07:04.150 I saw, I knew they were like endlessly capable of, Yeah. 0:07:04.430 --> 0:07:07.190 And that just made me feel like there was a 0:07:07.230 --> 0:07:10.550 lot that was on the table that you could do. 0:07:12.210 --> 0:07:14.860 I have never heard someone answer a question like that, 0:07:15.420 --> 0:07:18.360 that as a young woman, you had already keyed into 0:07:18.380 --> 0:07:25.190 the amount of worry, the amount of of weight that 0:07:25.250 --> 0:07:27.580 comes with all that invisible labor that women do. And 0:07:27.620 --> 0:07:30.120 you identified that you, your sisters didn't need to do 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.440 it because they were brilliant and capable and you sure 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:33.200 as hell weren't. 0:07:33.020 --> 0:07:33.550 Going to do it. 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.540 Like that is so wise for a child. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.220 Well, I don't think, I think I just intuited that, right. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:40.840 I don't think that I, I don't think I didn't 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:46.420 consciously have that awareness, but I, I definitely felt like. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:47.540 I just moved. 0:07:47.660 --> 0:07:49.200 I think I moved a little easier in the world 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.500 than they did, but I think it is because I 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:56.300 saw that, uh, that they were, how great they were. Um, 0:07:56.620 --> 0:07:58.900 and what they achieved, you know, my one sister who 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:00.420 like blew through high school in three years and then 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.620 blew through college in three years, you know, another high school, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.000 another sister that was very athletic and a cheerleader. And 0:08:06.020 --> 0:08:08.390 then another sister that was a mix of all of 0:08:08.430 --> 0:08:08.810 those things. 0:08:08.950 --> 0:08:11.710 You were steeped in possibility probably before you even had 0:08:11.730 --> 0:08:13.250 the terminology for it. Yeah. 0:08:13.310 --> 0:08:14.850 And they were, and the other thing I think is 0:08:14.890 --> 0:08:17.270 different for my experience is there were no boys in 0:08:17.330 --> 0:08:17.970 our family. 0:08:18.090 --> 0:08:19.530 So, um, There was. 0:08:19.490 --> 0:08:21.250 No, you know, my husband is still like, let me 0:08:21.290 --> 0:08:21.950 help you with that. 0:08:21.990 --> 0:08:23.550 And I'm like, there were no boys in my family. 0:08:23.650 --> 0:08:26.810 We just, we picked every, you know, the couch needed moving. 0:08:26.830 --> 0:08:29.930 My sister and I did it. The trash was emptying. 0:08:29.970 --> 0:08:30.830 We did that, you know. 0:08:30.930 --> 0:08:34.910 Totally. So there was no sense of anyone being treated 0:08:34.950 --> 0:08:37.860 differently than the other. So I think that that probably 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.160 also put me on a certain path in terms of 0:08:40.179 --> 0:08:41.120 thinking what women were. 0:08:41.700 --> 0:08:42.320 Capable of. 0:08:42.380 --> 0:08:43.960 And my father was just, my father. 0:08:43.980 --> 0:08:45.660 Very busy career in the Navy. And he was just 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:46.820 kind of like, I got to, just got to, got 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.200 to get out of the Palmary girls way. 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.079 Cause like the Palmary girls will descend on a situation 0:08:51.540 --> 0:08:54.140 even today, no matter what it is, if it's a 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.610 party or a wedding or a funeral or like whatever 0:08:56.620 --> 0:08:57.420 it is needs gets done. 0:08:57.490 --> 0:08:59.850 And we are going to take care of it. Let's 0:08:59.870 --> 0:09:01.750 just like, yeah. Yeah. 0:09:02.410 --> 0:09:06.430 There is really that beehive energy. Like, let's do it. 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.440 Let's divide. Let's conquer. Let's fix. What do you need? 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.280 Is it a snack? Is it a lawyer? Like, we 0:09:11.300 --> 0:09:14.660 got you. I feel that too. And I think it's 0:09:14.700 --> 0:09:18.840 because I went to an all-girls school. And so when 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.459 you talk about the dynamic in your house with all girls, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.830 I'm like, sister, I know it. And it really does. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:30.829 It hands you a permission slip that you don't even 0:09:30.910 --> 0:09:35.720 realize some other women haven't been handed. until they're shocked 0:09:36.179 --> 0:09:38.540 at how comfortably you give yourself permission. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:40.180 Yeah. Yes. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.780 I think I just didn't know. I just didn't know 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.820 anything else. And it wasn't until like much later as 0:09:45.860 --> 0:09:48.920 an adult that I considered there were no boys in 0:09:48.990 --> 0:09:52.569 our family. You know, there was no. So it just 0:09:52.730 --> 0:09:53.150 I think it. 0:09:53.190 --> 0:09:53.569 Yeah, I think. 0:09:53.710 --> 0:09:55.990 And the other thing that I saw as I was 0:09:56.010 --> 0:09:59.369 approaching my double digits is my mother got involved in politics. 0:09:59.590 --> 0:09:59.970 That was great. 0:10:00.110 --> 0:10:04.560 To be my question. When did your political awakening happen? 0:10:04.580 --> 0:10:04.810 When did? 0:10:07.010 --> 0:10:10.230 That sort of service and line of work go from 0:10:10.290 --> 0:10:13.690 being interesting to a career you knew you wanted? 0:10:14.150 --> 0:10:17.760 Very young. My mother, we lived in Pascagoula, Mississippi a 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.699 couple of times. I was born there. We lived there 0:10:20.580 --> 0:10:21.220 another time. 0:10:21.500 --> 0:10:24.939 And my mother, it was Trent Lott, who ended up 0:10:24.980 --> 0:10:28.210 being a Republican senator. He ended up being the Senate 0:10:28.230 --> 0:10:32.000 Majority Leader. Had a very successful career in politics. And 0:10:32.020 --> 0:10:34.660 one of my mother's close friends' husband was the campaign 0:10:34.700 --> 0:10:38.790 manager for his first congressional race. And my mother was 0:10:38.830 --> 0:10:42.690 the volunteer coordinator. And so she got involved and she 0:10:42.770 --> 0:10:45.490 would put me in a built like a sandwich board, 0:10:45.530 --> 0:10:47.719 like a Trent Lott sandwich board and stick me in 0:10:47.740 --> 0:10:50.720 front of the supermarket or door knock me. And I 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.579 was dressed up as a Trent Lott sandwich board for Halloween. 0:10:54.740 --> 0:10:57.600 There's a picture of me with Trent Lott. I think 0:10:57.620 --> 0:11:02.360 I'm seven. And I just got the bug of, people 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.079 getting together to try and, you know, work as a 0:11:06.140 --> 0:11:08.189 team to have some kind of outcome and you could 0:11:08.210 --> 0:11:08.790 just do it. 0:11:09.490 --> 0:11:11.569 And I think, and that, and it was at that 0:11:11.650 --> 0:11:12.970 moment that, and my. 0:11:12.890 --> 0:11:15.949 Parents were probably mostly voted for Republicans, although my mother 0:11:15.970 --> 0:11:16.990 was very proud that she voted. 0:11:17.030 --> 0:11:19.530 She did not vote for Nixon. She wants everybody to know. 0:11:21.970 --> 0:11:22.930 Okay, Mrs. P. 0:11:24.290 --> 0:11:28.520 Later they, Clinton, they. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.560 Like, with Bill Clinton, they kind of became Democrats. But 0:11:32.179 --> 0:11:34.300 so it wasn't even it wasn't a partisan thing. It 0:11:34.500 --> 0:11:37.370 was just I knew I knew I wanted to work 0:11:37.410 --> 0:11:42.229 in politics from age seven, probably. And then I just 0:11:42.330 --> 0:11:45.050 always had that, you know, and I continued to follow it, 0:11:45.070 --> 0:11:48.829 you know, through my high school years and involved in 0:11:48.850 --> 0:11:51.910 stuff there, too. Yeah, I didn't know what it would be, 0:11:51.950 --> 0:11:54.150 what I would do. Yeah, I knew that that's what 0:11:54.170 --> 0:11:54.790 I wanted to. 0:11:54.820 --> 0:12:00.500 Yeah, the world you wanted to. live inside of. I'm 0:12:00.540 --> 0:12:03.800 really curious, you know, because you talk about growing up 0:12:03.870 --> 0:12:07.110 in Mississippi and you lived so much in the South. 0:12:07.170 --> 0:12:08.870 I know you lived in South Carolina and, you know, 0:12:08.910 --> 0:12:13.430 I did 10 years in North Carolina. I find that moment, 0:12:13.470 --> 0:12:16.819 that sort of inflection point, I think Bill Clinton was 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:23.120 such a fantastic candidate and communicator because in a way 0:12:23.340 --> 0:12:28.550 he made everybody feel seen, traditional Democrats. And also Southern 0:12:28.630 --> 0:12:32.270 folks who have kind of been told they're Republicans, but 0:12:32.330 --> 0:12:35.150 who saw his policies and who realized like, wait, I 0:12:35.190 --> 0:12:37.640 agree with that guy. And he talks like me and 0:12:37.780 --> 0:12:41.660 he's from around here. And I think, you know, we're 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.839 in this crazy moment where identity politics have almost become 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.350 religious and they've lost... I mean, they've lost the plot 0:12:48.570 --> 0:12:52.230 on facts and, you know, what's good for people and 0:12:52.270 --> 0:12:54.929 what government is supposed to do. And, you know, it 0:12:55.309 --> 0:12:59.420 just feels so crazy. I'm curious because I know you 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.120 landed in the Clinton White House eventually. 0:13:02.140 --> 0:13:02.920 Yeah. 0:13:03.580 --> 0:13:07.559 Did you... Do you think, you know, my assessment of 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:08.849 looking at him as a little kid in the 90s 0:13:08.890 --> 0:13:11.740 and being like, I think... I think everybody likes him. 0:13:11.980 --> 0:13:13.800 Was it that? 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.110 Why do you think he was such a good candidate? 0:13:16.690 --> 0:13:18.730 And why do you think he was able to communicate 0:13:18.770 --> 0:13:22.410 to people that in fact, democratic, I'm air quoting for 0:13:22.429 --> 0:13:27.050 the friends at home, like democratic economic policies made sense? 0:13:27.110 --> 0:13:30.990 Because we all know that in the last 45 years, 0:13:31.070 --> 0:13:33.660 every single recession has been caused by a Republican president 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.080 and the Democrats come and clean it up. Like we're 0:13:36.140 --> 0:13:40.740 the better fiscal party and yet people don't believe it, 0:13:41.020 --> 0:13:44.480 even though the facts are non-emotional. The emotions make us 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.500 sort of upside down. Like, so you got to see 0:13:48.580 --> 0:13:51.880 inside of it. I've studied it. Like, give me the 0:13:51.900 --> 0:13:52.580 inside scoop. 0:13:53.260 --> 0:13:58.530 So I think that Southern candidates make the best, I 0:13:58.570 --> 0:14:03.209 think Southern Democrats make the best presidential candidates. So, or just, 0:14:03.350 --> 0:14:05.930 or red state, a red state candidate, you know, Barack 0:14:05.970 --> 0:14:09.210 Obama is an exception, is a very notable exception to that. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.920 But the Midwest is sort of... It's not that it's Southern, 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.319 but it has, I would say, like a similar. 0:14:18.980 --> 0:14:19.320 Thing. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:20.900 There's like a cousin energy. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.010 And, you know, interestingly, Bill Clinton is from Arkansas, which is, 0:14:25.950 --> 0:14:29.470 you know, maybe a third Midwest and two-thirds Southern. Like, 0:14:29.570 --> 0:14:33.650 it is a different place than other Southern states. It 0:14:34.310 --> 0:14:37.140 definitely has a Midwest sensibility. 0:14:37.700 --> 0:14:40.890 It's a little... it's a little less, it's a little. 0:14:40.730 --> 0:14:44.960 More, it's a little more buttoned up than, you know, 0:14:45.010 --> 0:14:48.670 Mississippi maybe, for example. So it's slightly different. And he was, 0:14:48.740 --> 0:14:51.940 and he was both. But I think that, and there 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:56.500 are modern day examples with Senator Warnock, Georgia. 0:14:56.620 --> 0:14:58.300 I love him. Oh, I love him too. 0:14:58.900 --> 0:15:01.900 Senator Ossoff and Georgia. So, and I think, and this 0:15:01.980 --> 0:15:07.859 is why, and I'm doing a YouTube series about changing 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.260 politics in the South. I love it. And this is why, 0:15:10.350 --> 0:15:12.870 because I think, you know, I kind of go back 0:15:12.890 --> 0:15:16.970 to like 98 as the year where for a while, it. 0:15:16.930 --> 0:15:20.010 Seemed like Democrats were on a path. It was called 0:15:20.050 --> 0:15:20.890 the new South. 0:15:21.010 --> 0:15:23.350 I don't know if you remember that from Sophia, like 0:15:23.410 --> 0:15:25.890 it's just like deep recesses up in your young brain, 0:15:26.290 --> 0:15:28.700 but it was, there were a bunch of democratic governors 0:15:28.740 --> 0:15:30.180 that came out of the South at the time, like 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:36.530 Bill Clinton, William Winter in Mississippi, who really was, succeeded 0:15:36.890 --> 0:15:40.190 in like after it was the one that kind of 0:15:40.210 --> 0:15:43.300 really got integration going after it was sort of like 0:15:44.540 --> 0:15:49.060 Governor Roy Hunt in North Carolina, the research triangle, right? 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.640 Like all of these things with UNC and Duke and 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.690 North Carolina State, South Carolina was Carol Campbell, Florida was 0:15:57.750 --> 0:16:01.150 Lawton Childs. So there was a generation of, and they 0:16:01.190 --> 0:16:04.130 were men, that were coming up in the South. 0:16:04.190 --> 0:16:05.890 And I think Bill Clinton typifies the. 0:16:05.850 --> 0:16:10.410 Best that had really were excited about the possibility, economic 0:16:10.450 --> 0:16:14.030 possibilities and opportunities in the sort of traditional democratic sense, 0:16:14.510 --> 0:16:17.050 but also understood the lives of the people. 0:16:16.890 --> 0:16:18.050 That they were representing. 0:16:18.510 --> 0:16:22.030 And I think that, you know, and Ossoff proves this, 0:16:22.130 --> 0:16:24.850 Warnock proves this, back in his day, Bill Clinton. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.990 Proved this, which is, If you think deeply. 0:16:27.590 --> 0:16:31.540 Enough about your argument, you can make it across an 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.930 ideological spectrum I can't emphasize it enough. When we talk 0:16:37.020 --> 0:16:40.180 about like, oh, there's a division in the Democratic Party, 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.140 there's the Democratic Socialists, and then there's the more establishment Democrats. 0:16:44.340 --> 0:16:48.940 It is that there are a lot of that is about. 0:16:48.620 --> 0:16:55.150 Fighting and judgment and just the way families fight. But 0:16:55.190 --> 0:16:57.650 when you step back and look at issues and what's 0:16:57.690 --> 0:17:00.250 important in people's lives, there is a connectivity. 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:01.520 Connectivity. 0:17:01.900 --> 0:17:05.360 But not all politicians work as hard as I think 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.140 those in the red states, southern states, Rocky Mountain states 0:17:10.660 --> 0:17:14.629 do to make that argument. And it is and I 0:17:14.710 --> 0:17:17.630 feel like so that is what I think the thing 0:17:17.670 --> 0:17:21.630 with Clinton with Bill Clinton was, was that he was 0:17:21.650 --> 0:17:25.110 this exciting new generation. And we see that now today, 0:17:25.170 --> 0:17:28.320 there's a lot of exciting, you know, new leadership But 0:17:28.619 --> 0:17:31.700 he had that sensibility of having being raised in a 0:17:31.740 --> 0:17:35.050 place where he knew that, you know, you got to 0:17:35.090 --> 0:17:37.310 talk to everyone. You know, that was a big thing 0:17:37.330 --> 0:17:39.610 that Clinton White House, we were not writing off any 0:17:39.630 --> 0:17:41.389 set of voters because they're never going to. 0:17:41.369 --> 0:17:44.010 Vote for us or we don't need them. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 0:17:44.470 --> 0:17:53.730 And now a word from our sponsors. One of the 0:17:53.770 --> 0:17:58.129 things I love, I'll never forget, you know, him going 0:17:58.170 --> 0:18:02.270 to talk to groups of hunters. And people are like, 0:18:02.310 --> 0:18:04.810 you remember that? I got my first gun for my 0:18:04.830 --> 0:18:07.630 12th birthday. You know, people are like that, you know, 0:18:07.910 --> 0:18:10.540 crazy liberal wants to take our guns away. I'm like, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.920 I'm a sharpshooter, baby. Like, what are you talking about? 0:18:12.940 --> 0:18:14.120 No, I don't. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.379 But I think it's crazy that we don't regulate weapons 0:18:19.460 --> 0:18:22.500 like we regulate cars. Like, what are we talking about? 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:27.500 And I loved that. President Clinton, when he was campaigning, 0:18:27.619 --> 0:18:31.200 went and spoke to people and said, I'm not trying 0:18:31.220 --> 0:18:35.020 to take away your hobby with your family, your Saturday, 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.580 you know, with your son. And I'm not trying to 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.440 take away the way that you, you know, teach your 0:18:40.500 --> 0:18:42.800 sons or your daughters about how to live off the 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.000 land and how to feed your family, if that's part 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.220 of why you do it. But I do want to 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.540 protect people. I do think we need some sanity here. 0:18:52.220 --> 0:18:54.980 And it really brought the temperature down. And when we 0:18:55.040 --> 0:19:00.320 talk about how things are today, you see somebody... I 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.540 love seeing how Senators Warnock and Ossoff are really breaking 0:19:06.580 --> 0:19:09.680 through the noise. And let's be frank, we're two women 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.050 having this conversation. I think people are unfortunately still more 0:19:13.090 --> 0:19:15.030 willing to listen to men. I look at the ways 0:19:15.050 --> 0:19:20.340 they are heard and I look at the ways someone 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.140 like the brilliant AOC is vilified. And I think part 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.619 of it is because she's from New York. And I 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.980 think part of it is because she's a woman. And 0:19:29.020 --> 0:19:31.680 then when you hear her get out and talk to people, 0:19:32.550 --> 0:19:35.870 she has that gift of being able to communicate political 0:19:35.890 --> 0:19:41.110 complexity so well and to personalize it. And yet we 0:19:41.210 --> 0:19:44.070 do seem to be fighting this sort of ideological war 0:19:44.130 --> 0:19:46.990 in these PR campaigns run by, you know, the Heritage 0:19:47.010 --> 0:19:48.290 Foundation and whoever else. 0:19:48.890 --> 0:19:49.010 Yeah. 0:19:49.770 --> 0:19:52.489 Is that part of why you wanted to make The 0:19:52.550 --> 0:19:54.830 Long Play? And for our friends at home, you know, 0:19:55.030 --> 0:19:57.830 Jen's shows are all incredible, as you now know. But 0:19:58.310 --> 0:20:01.290 The Long Play is the new show. It's six episodes. 0:20:01.410 --> 0:20:04.550 The full title is Long Play, Winning the South. you 0:20:04.570 --> 0:20:06.429 can watch it on YouTube. I love, by the way, 0:20:06.450 --> 0:20:08.650 that you democratized this for us. Thank you so much. 0:20:08.670 --> 0:20:11.090 Cause you know, I loved the circus, but not everybody 0:20:11.130 --> 0:20:14.870 has HBO or I'm sorry, Showtime. And so I love 0:20:14.890 --> 0:20:18.389 that anybody can watch this. I'm just so curious, the 0:20:18.450 --> 0:20:21.209 difference between the first Clinton campaign and where we're at 0:20:21.290 --> 0:20:25.950 now and, and this sort of ferocity that feels like 0:20:25.990 --> 0:20:30.350 it's been engineered, especially in the South. Like you're from 0:20:30.390 --> 0:20:32.490 there and you've gone back there for this show and 0:20:32.510 --> 0:20:36.750 you've seen everything that's happened in between. Where do you 0:20:36.790 --> 0:20:39.429 think it comes from? What, what surprised you about the 0:20:39.470 --> 0:20:40.129 South today? 0:20:40.150 --> 0:20:42.350 I think that, I mean, there's, there's so much, we 0:20:42.369 --> 0:20:44.450 should go back and talk about AOC some more. Cause like, 0:20:44.490 --> 0:20:48.200 I feel like she is a monster talent. And like 0:20:48.220 --> 0:20:50.320 the thing that she has in common with Bill Clinton 0:20:50.420 --> 0:20:54.000 is she understands what people's lives are like. And you 0:20:54.060 --> 0:20:56.879 get that when you, You know, when anyone speaks with her, 0:20:57.060 --> 0:20:58.840 they're going to they are going to be able to 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.300 if she can get in front of people. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:00.760 Right. Yeah. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:02.420 She's going to be able to she's going to be 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:03.220 able to translate that. 0:21:03.340 --> 0:21:05.679 But what I I really. 0:21:05.540 --> 0:21:08.439 Wanted to go back to the South because I feel like, 0:21:08.740 --> 0:21:12.100 first of all, it drives politics in America. And I 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:16.280 think people don't appreciate that. Like nothing stays in the South. 0:21:16.850 --> 0:21:19.210 you know, the first right to work legislation, the sort 0:21:19.230 --> 0:21:23.230 of anti-labor legislation passed in Texas in the fifties. And 0:21:23.250 --> 0:21:24.810 then it, you know, then it spread, you know, most 0:21:24.850 --> 0:21:27.940 of the abortion restrictions, they start in the South. Most 0:21:27.980 --> 0:21:31.120 of the, most of the efforts that make it harder 0:21:31.140 --> 0:21:34.060