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Speaker 1: I feel like I want to reach out to you

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Speaker 1: and say how courageous it is. And I know I

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Speaker 1: get how profound.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard.

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Speaker 2: I get it, totally get it.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.

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Speaker 4: The TV news and talk formats are funny. There are

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Speaker 4: a number of ways in. You can come in as

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Speaker 4: a celebrity. You can come in as a journalist, you

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Speaker 4: can come in as a specialist. I came into TV

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Speaker 4: news as a journalist, first working in print, then online

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Speaker 4: that I wrote a book and I had to promote

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Speaker 4: it on TV, which started my very unexpected to me

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Speaker 4: television career. But if you think about shows like The

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Speaker 4: View or the late night shows, most of those people

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Speaker 4: come in as celebrities, comedians, etc. Now.

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Speaker 3: I was happy to come in as a journalist because.

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Speaker 4: That's what I did, but I always envied the specialists.

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Speaker 4: I remember during the Somali pirate news cycle. Remember that

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Speaker 4: I was at Fox at the time and we were

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Speaker 4: scrambling for an expert on pirates and I happened to

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Speaker 4: know a maritime law expert from college, so I brought

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Speaker 4: him in and for a while he was our pirate guy.

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Speaker 4: That was his specialty, and specialists get to live in

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Speaker 4: one domain. It's the domain they know the best. So

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Speaker 4: you got your terrorism expert, you got a chef.

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Speaker 3: You got an athlete.

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Speaker 4: For me, as a journalist and a generalist, I didn't

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Speaker 4: just have to weigh in on politics, but everything from Snookie

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Speaker 4: to Tiger Woods to the royals.

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Speaker 3: And it's a lot to keep up with.

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Speaker 4: My next guest has had the supreme ultimate specialist career,

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Speaker 4: and man did he capitalize on it, unlike the pirate

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Speaker 4: guy who probably doesn't have much of a TV career anymore.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Drew Pinsky is a doctor who became a radio star,

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Speaker 4: who became a TV star, and now he talked about

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Speaker 4: anything he wants with his medical background as the foundation

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Speaker 4: from Loveline to celebrity rehab with Doctor Drew. He's been

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Speaker 4: all over media for like forty years, and that is

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Speaker 4: quite a feat to stick around that long in this

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Speaker 4: career because this career is brutal and it's still going.

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Speaker 3: It's still going for him.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to off the cup, Doctor Drew Pinsky.

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Speaker 1: Such a privilege to be here. But man, you made

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Speaker 1: me feel old who for forty years?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do think about that. Sometimes I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what the hell forty years this? And as a result,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I've also all alongside of that, been

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Speaker 1: a workaholic physician. I've been practicing medicine in multiple different arenas,

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Speaker 1: and I now just want.

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Speaker 2: To give it all back.

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Speaker 1: I want to just use everything out of plus. Physicians

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Speaker 1: now don't get to see what I saw in the

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Speaker 1: sense that everything is so silent and ultra specialized.

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Speaker 2: And I was such a workaholic.

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Speaker 1: And I taught medicine, I taught psychiatry, I did intensive

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Speaker 1: care medicine, I did hospital medicine, I did outpitch medicine.

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Speaker 1: He did addiction medicine in a psychiatric hospital. I did

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Speaker 1: medical services in a psychiatric So I got to see

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Speaker 1: the spectrum of the human experience so broadly, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to try to share it. And so I've

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Speaker 1: had this great good fortune of just trying to do

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Speaker 1: good in media this whole time, trying to use media

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Speaker 1: to do something worthwhile.

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Speaker 3: I know, but here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: I've been on TV a long time too, and you know,

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Speaker 4: so we get to know, like your TV doctor, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they don't go on to have this explosive media career

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Speaker 4: outside of a hit a month, you know, when you're

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Speaker 4: coming in to talk about some celebrity who died or

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Speaker 4: health crisis you have. Really, I mean, people who want

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Speaker 4: a career in media need to study your trajectory because

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Speaker 4: the thing that you've managed to do is remain impressively

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Speaker 4: present and relevant. And that's the trick. I did an

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Speaker 4: effort to be on TV. Like I said, I wrote

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Speaker 4: a book and had to promote it. But it helped

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Speaker 4: me promote my writing. So I did it, and I

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Speaker 4: found if I could stay relevant through the news cycles,

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Speaker 4: not just be a one trick pony, well then they

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Speaker 4: keep having me. But it's hard to stay relevant. It's

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Speaker 4: hard to stay relevant to people.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a great point. By the way, there's no

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Speaker 1: blueprint for anything I've done. I did not expect to

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Speaker 1: be doing any of this. It happened by an accident.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden. I was doing radio in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty three, and I thought it was I thought I

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Speaker 1: was doing community service. I didn't think of myself as

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Speaker 1: a broadcast or anything. Yeah, and then all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden that went to five nights a week, and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, some TV guys showed up. But

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Speaker 1: in terms of relevment, it's kind of interesting. Because I've

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Speaker 1: been in media that has kind of a continuous connection

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Speaker 1: with the public at large. I get a sense of

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Speaker 1: what's important in the moment.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 1: So I came to radio really because of something. We

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Speaker 1: just stopped calling grids and started calling aids like that

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Speaker 1: was where that happened. Yeah, and nobody was talking about it,

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Speaker 1: and particularly nobody was talking about it to young people.

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Speaker 2: I was considered.

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Speaker 1: Bizarre to talk about venereal diseases to an eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old because why would they need to know that that

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Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty three. Condoms were behind the counter. You'd

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Speaker 1: have to get the pharmacist to bring the condoms to

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Speaker 1: the cash resire. It was crazy, Yeah, And so I thought, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I just got to keep doing this. And as I

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Speaker 1: listened to those audiences, the next thing I started hearing

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Speaker 1: about was the consequences of childhood trauma, sexual abuse, physical abuse, topanament, neglect.

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Speaker 1: All that was being played out then in the psych

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Speaker 1: hospital where I was working every day, I saw the

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Speaker 1: shift in personality to all cluster b personalities and the

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Speaker 1: importance of the addiction and how addiction was sweeping across

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Speaker 1: the country. Yes, so I started working in that and

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Speaker 1: then I got good at that, and then it then

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Speaker 1: that became celebrity rehab eventually again not my idea, just

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Speaker 1: some guys that showed up and said we want to

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Speaker 1: do this. I thought, well, I'd really live to show

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Speaker 1: how we treat addiction. But you can't do that. It's

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Speaker 1: just yeahm possible, And we figured out how to do it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And then you know COVID and there there's always something

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Speaker 1: that's sort of relevant to people in the moment.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 4: You started appearing on Ask a Surgeon on k Rock

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Speaker 4: as like a med student, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was just fourth year medical students, and I brought

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Speaker 1: up my Kyindecology Infectious Disease textbook and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, these are the most important health issues

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Speaker 1: for fourteen to twenty four year olds and they're bringing

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Speaker 1: it at midnight to FM disc jockeys.

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Speaker 2: That was blew my mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought, and I thought, wow, this thing,

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Speaker 1: the sex, drug and rock and roll that radio has

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Speaker 1: perpetrated on young people has had such a powerful negative

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Speaker 1: medical influence on them and psychiatric influence.

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Speaker 2: Certainly there should be a way to make it good.

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Speaker 1: If I crawled into this thing, it sort of became

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Speaker 1: a part of it, or just became, like you know,

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Speaker 1: it became a philosophy that Corolla and I used it

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Speaker 1: called the you may not be old enough for this,

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Speaker 1: but at the time we call it the Gainsburger and

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Speaker 1: the pill philosophy, which is that if you want a

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Speaker 1: dog to take a pill, you have to roll it

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Speaker 1: in something. Back in the day, it was something called gainsburger,

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Speaker 1: and then they'd eat the pill. I'm the pill. I'm

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Speaker 1: the pill. I would just slip into these environments and

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Speaker 1: give information wouldn't otherwise be heard by the people I

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Speaker 1: wanted to reach, and I would just trust the people

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Speaker 1: that created media that reached them to do so. And

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Speaker 1: it was sometimes very very uncomfortable for me, very uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: In the news business, we call that the meat and

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Speaker 3: the potatoes. So we want it. They're there for the meat,

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Speaker 3: so we give it to them, but we also want

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Speaker 3: to give them some vegetables.

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Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting about something you said in

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Speaker 1: that intro, which was You're like, I'm sorry, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a pirate expert, but we can talk about it anyway.

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Speaker 1: But The experts that we get on television are not

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Speaker 1: the typically not the biggest or most colored or decorated

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Speaker 1: experts on the topic.

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Speaker 2: Across the land.

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Speaker 1: Right there, people who talk right, are available, are reasonably

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Speaker 1: versed in what they talk about, and can show up

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Speaker 1: and we'll do it for nothing.

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Speaker 2: It will show up and be on TV because news.

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Speaker 3: Is no pet Yes, but mainly are intelligenic.

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Speaker 2: Mainly yeah, can you communicate something?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And people think when somebody's on TV that is

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Speaker 1: the expert. No, it is not always. The experts are

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Speaker 1: almost always boring, and they'll show up for one appearance

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Speaker 1: and that's it because the ratings drop as soon as

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Speaker 1: they hit it. Hit this strain, and that's it. And

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Speaker 1: you can't do that again and again. And if it

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Speaker 1: is an expert that does get attention, he or she

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Speaker 1: sometimes has an agenda. Yes, right, People don't understand how

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Speaker 1: news works. It's just it's very different than they imagine.

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Speaker 4: That's so true. And I want to get into I

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Speaker 4: want to talk about your career. I also really want

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Speaker 4: to talk to you about mental health because that's important

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Speaker 4: to me. But first I want to ask about your childhood.

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Speaker 4: What kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 1: I was so I grew up sort of middle upper

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Speaker 1: middle class, became certainly upper middle by time I was

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Speaker 1: a teenager. My dad was depression ey kid. He was

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Speaker 1: severely traumat you know, I'm a He was a first

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Speaker 1: generation you know, from the Ukrainian diaspora, runn away from

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Speaker 1: the holodomo and all this stuff. He and his family

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Speaker 1: got here just in time for the depression, and that

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Speaker 1: traumatized him like crazy. So he he was a great guy.

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Speaker 1: He was a physician. He was ad exquisite judgment. Thank

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Speaker 1: god I got some of his medical judgment. But he

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Speaker 1: was sort of traumatizing about you know, tomorrow's the end

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Speaker 1: of the world. Tomorrow's end of the world, tomorrow the world.

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Speaker 1: My mother was an opera singer who became a screen

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Speaker 1: actress who was severely emotionally abusive, severely.

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Speaker 3: Alm abusive or abused, abusive, abusive.

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Speaker 1: She ran away. I found out when I was fifty.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this, this is awesome. I was doing the

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Speaker 1: book on narcissism, and I was doing with a professor

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Speaker 1: from USC He's a behavioral economist, and he did he goes,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, Oh, I'm such a fan of film noir.

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Speaker 1: I guess your mom was in a film noir. So

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Speaker 1: he goes online and looks and he goes, hey, here's

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Speaker 1: your mom, And I look at it and I go, huh.

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Speaker 1: They describe her the fifth wife of this silent film star.

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Speaker 1: At the age of eighteen, came to Los Angeles. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what she was?

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Speaker 2: She had a previous and I had a previous step son, and.

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Speaker 3: Whole life that you didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Married married to a very famous Western silent film star.

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Speaker 1: She was like eighty years old at the time I

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Speaker 1: found out, and my sister kind of freaked out about it.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I said, look, if this is something

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Speaker 1: she wants to take to her grave, she's made it

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Speaker 1: this far.

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Speaker 2: I want to, I want to respect. Let's let it.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to. I'm gonna let her take it

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Speaker 2: to grade.

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Speaker 3: So you didn't bring it up.

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Speaker 2: Did not bring it up, but I called her steps.

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Speaker 2: I called it called the steps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah who was who was a retired dentist from northern

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Speaker 1: California and uh And he was like, oh, yeah, I was.

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Speaker 1: You know, was like having had a sister. You know,

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Speaker 1: she was eighteen, my dad was sixty and uh. And

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Speaker 1: one day she just left and I thought, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's perfect, that's her.

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Speaker 3: God, that's wild.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so yeah, she had a mixed personality disorder,

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Speaker 1: I would say, very odd stuff going a lot of

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Speaker 1: unregulated hostilities.

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Speaker 3: So what kind of kid did all of that make you?

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Speaker 1: So it made me very anxious and a little bit

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Speaker 1: rebellious quiet.

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Speaker 2: I think it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I found some of my grade school report cards after

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Speaker 1: my parents died. I was going through it, and my

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Speaker 1: second grade teacher, which I thought I was a star

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Speaker 1: student in second grade, me as disruptive, and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: It really was.

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Speaker 4: So most people in media are described that way, and

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Speaker 4: it probably was the trauma.

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Speaker 1: Right when you're a traumatized kid, you're you know. And

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Speaker 1: by the time I was high school, I was I

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Speaker 1: was quite depressed. By the time I hit like adolescents

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Speaker 1: and stuff, I was severely depressed. I was having trouble

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Speaker 1: navigating socially, and I was in a small, you know,

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Speaker 1: liberal arts prep school kind of thing by high school.

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Speaker 1: And I found sports in uh like high school, and

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Speaker 1: football kind of saved me. And I had some overcoming

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Speaker 1: adversity experiences in football that were deeply meaningful for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then around eleventh grade, I found overachieving.

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Speaker 3: That's a drug, right, Oh yeah, yeah, same.

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Speaker 1: And so now it's a theater, it's student government and

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Speaker 1: sports and academics and bla bla bla b and uh

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Speaker 1: and and then by senior year, I'm like the student

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Speaker 1: body president and all these things, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: and that was a drug for sure. Hit college and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have any of that at my disposal. So

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Speaker 1: guess what got depressed again? Yeah, and thought I was

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Speaker 1: going to be a physician. But I was like, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't do this. I'm not up for it, and

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Speaker 1: I think my brain wasn't developed enough to do it.

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Speaker 1: So I just drifted around for about a year and

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Speaker 1: a half. I left college for a while, and when

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Speaker 1: I came back, I was like, maybe maybe that science

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Speaker 1: stuff is what I meant to do.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I came back with full full force of God.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and had a wonderful experience under amazing science training

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Speaker 1: and and killed myself for years to get into medical

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Speaker 1: school and was so so so grateful to get there,

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Speaker 1: and thought I had the most important job in the world.

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Speaker 1: I remember just thinking this is so important we're doing Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so important. Yeah, I think the younger folks have lost

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Speaker 1: track of that a little bit. Yeah, it doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: that way to me anymore. We really, I mean we

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Speaker 1: were I was deep in the AIDS pandemic and we

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Speaker 1: thought this was this was I mean it was dark,

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Speaker 1: like so dark. We only those of us that were

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Speaker 1: there taking care of these men are here to tell

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Speaker 1: you about it. Yeah, it was so sad and so dark.

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Speaker 1: But we were from mind and we never ever worried

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Speaker 1: about exposing ourselves or contagions or anything.

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Speaker 2: We just did our work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so anyway, does that kind of capture my

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Speaker 1: story a little bit?

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Speaker 4: It does, and it resonates so much because I had

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Speaker 4: not a similar upbringing, but I was a similar.

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Speaker 3: Kid, and overachieving became a drug as well. And then

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Speaker 3: I got to.

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Speaker 4: Journalism, which felt very important, right, Like this was a

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Speaker 4: very important this was a public service.

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Speaker 3: This was like a really fun job. I was on

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Speaker 3: the front lines. Yeah, it's definitely lost a little of that.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, and as it pertains to media,

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Speaker 1: you'll appreciate this that when you come to media to

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Speaker 1: make a difference because you want to do something good,

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Speaker 1: it's a different thing. I'm sure when you look around

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Speaker 1: and see people in media, yes, name any names who

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Speaker 1: either a haven't had a day job, haven't really worked,

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Speaker 1: or be they're there because hey.

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Speaker 2: It's me.

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Speaker 3: It's me, and it's money and it's fame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not that they are not happy people. They

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Speaker 1: are not fun people to be around now, and I

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Speaker 1: wish people wouldn't watch them so much because they don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily have your interest in mind.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and there's a lot of that.

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Speaker 4: When I say it's not as it doesn't feel as

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Speaker 4: important and meaningful anymore, it's because it's a lot of

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Speaker 4: those people and the project has has changed, Like anyway,

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Speaker 4: it's not about me, and it is.

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Speaker 1: But listen, it's it's a I saw it happen in

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Speaker 1: real time and I wrote a book about It's the

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Speaker 1: narcissistic shift. Yes, and we're all guilty of but we

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Speaker 1: all have some of it. Yeah, some people really have it.

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Speaker 1: And it's and it's a dangerous thing because they lose empathy,

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Speaker 1: they act out envy and they project, they're aggressive and

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Speaker 1: they don't care when they destroy people.

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Speaker 2: That's very dangerous to have ropping around these days.

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Speaker 4: Well, and it's also it's deeply this affects my mental health.

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Speaker 4: When I'm in this environment, I care deeply. I'm empathetic

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Speaker 4: to a fault, and genuinely I've had to work on that.

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Speaker 2: I think we were separated at birth.

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Speaker 3: I know, seriously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so good news. Here's the good news for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a fan of yours. I always liked you, so

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing for both of us.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm a.

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Speaker 3: Fan of yours too. That is a good thing. And

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Speaker 3: I take it personally like when my of course, when.

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Speaker 4: People in my profession aren't taking it as seriously or

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Speaker 4: responsibly as I think they should, I take it personally.

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Speaker 3: It really bothers me.

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Speaker 2: I say about medicine, same with me. Covid was covid

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Speaker 2: was mind body?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure it was, just I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I still I will never get over it. I'll never

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Speaker 1: go And I keep saying, I thank god my dad

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Speaker 1: had died before because it would have killed him again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right, right, right, So you mentioned Okay, so you

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Speaker 4: do ask a surgeon as a med student.

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Speaker 3: It turns into left line on the radio because.

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Speaker 1: The TV shows Ask a Surgeon was a segment. These

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Speaker 1: guys were doing a show middle of the night midnight

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Speaker 1: to three am on Sunday night, and they were just

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Speaker 1: opening the phone lined up and giving advice to their listeners.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is your buddy giving them advice. Well, that

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Speaker 2: station became.

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Speaker 1: Extremely popular overnight and all of a sudden got all

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Speaker 1: this attention. Their number one radio station, K Rocky was

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Speaker 1: not no one had ever heard of it five minutes before.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And at the same so.

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Speaker 1: The program Judger goes, shit, we got to do our

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Speaker 1: community service hours.

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Speaker 2: So you guys are going to be it.

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Speaker 1: You got to figure out how to make this community

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Speaker 1: service show. I lived like across the street, and so

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Speaker 1: somebody went to piskeys in medical school and he can

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Speaker 1: come up and sort of do something to make this

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 2: I know what it'll be.

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Speaker 1: Ask a surgeon, it'll be funny. I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you're talking about, but I was convinced to

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Speaker 1: kind of go in. It was love Line at that point,

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Speaker 1: it was already love Line.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay, and then that becomes the MTV show

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Speaker 3: that we know with Adam Krolla.

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Speaker 1: Welcome a very live version of love Line on Fabulous

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Speaker 1: New York. I'm Adam Krolla. That is doctor Drew, doctor

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Speaker 1: cruz Aboard, certified physician and medicine specialized.

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Speaker 3: How did you handle having your own big cable TV show?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was.

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Speaker 1: I would say the headline from that show would have

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Speaker 1: been leave me alone, because I was doing two or

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Speaker 1: three simultaneous medical careers at that time. Yeah, And they

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Speaker 1: came along to do a TV when Loveland went to

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Speaker 1: five nights a week, I could barely understand how I

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Speaker 1: would do it.

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Speaker 2: And my poor wife, I don't know how she made

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Speaker 2: it through this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And when they came along to do a TV show,

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Speaker 1: I said, well, look, all I can manage is Friday

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Speaker 1: afternoon after one and Saturday after noon.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: If you can do this show, then well I can

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Speaker 1: do this. And so we would do six shows a week.

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Speaker 2: We would do three. We would do a show.

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Speaker 1: We just we just interviewed for an hour and day calls,

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Speaker 1: change our clothes, do another, do another. And we didn't

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Speaker 1: know that that was unusual. We just thought, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: see me. I guess all right, here we go, and

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Speaker 1: and we did that for like five hundred shows or something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but how did because now you're famous, and how

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Speaker 4: do you process that again?

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Speaker 1: If you've had a day job, I'm not impressed.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was fun.

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Speaker 1: I love people, and so to have people. I remember

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Speaker 1: the first time I was aware something was going on.

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Speaker 1: Somebody came up to you on the street here and

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Speaker 1: past seen and went, oh, I always wonder what you

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Speaker 1: looked like, and it was really great to see you now,

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Speaker 1: and I thought.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm being seen. Also good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well I get to reach more people and do

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Speaker 1: more things. Yeah, and that's about all I was.

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Speaker 2: It was fun. I don't know, it just felt like

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Speaker 2: it felt like growth.

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Speaker 1: To me. It felt like I was doing more things,

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Speaker 1: more things. It didn't feel like much of anything else.

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Speaker 4: Of all of the shows you've done, because you've done

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Speaker 4: so many, what what felt the most fulfilling, the most rewarding,

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Speaker 4: the most closest to your the promise you make yourself right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so so it's hard to answer that.

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Speaker 1: But but oh, my goodness, when you when I really

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Speaker 1: look at all the different things, Yes, the most fun I.

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Speaker 2: Had was Leveline.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that was really really we we would have loved

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Speaker 1: it because I it was my you know, I thought,

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Speaker 1: we have a community here, We're gonna do this forever.

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Speaker 2: I did understand TV gonna you.

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Speaker 1: Come and go.

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Speaker 3: Well exactly, that's the point I'm making about your career.

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Speaker 3: You do come and go in this business.

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Speaker 4: And most of the time you stay, you stay gone,

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Speaker 4: you keep coming, you keep reinventing.

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Speaker 2: Well, but the but the community never reassembles. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's all these people you get so close with, you're

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Speaker 1: working with them, and they just disappear.

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Speaker 2: They're out of your life. That's weird.

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Speaker 1: And h l N was a great experience. The thing

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Speaker 1: I did for the c W Life Changers was a

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Speaker 1: great experience. I love the child challenge of those shows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love the challenge of trying to make content and

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Speaker 1: make a difference.

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Speaker 2: And you know.

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Speaker 3: Addiction, right is that like your heart is an addiction.

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Speaker 2: That That's where I was going.

442
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: But really, the show that I felt was the most

443
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: extraordinary experience with celebrity we have it was. It was

444
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: an extraordinary experience and continues to be and it did

445
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: what we wanted it to do, was to bring really awareness.

446
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: So do you know how that happened? To? Hey, what happened?

447
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: So TV producers showed up and said they want to

448
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: do this thing. At the time, I was doing a

449
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: lot of like Nancy Grace and CNN trying to raise

450
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: awareness about adiction. I could see the homeless thing coming.

451
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 1: I could see what was coming our way, and I

452
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: was like, we got a problem. And so these TV

453
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: producers picked up.

454
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 2: On me doing that. I guess they knew that. At

455
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 2: the time I was running.

456
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: I was running a large addiction freestanding program in a

457
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility, a freestanding psychiatric hospital, and we treated a

458
00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: lot of celebrities.

459
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: I didn't like treating celebrities. I didn't want to treat celebrities.

460
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: It's just we were so circumspect and private and had

461
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: such a high quality program. We got us a few

462
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 1: our way and they came to me and they went,

463
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: we want to put cameras in what you're doing.

464
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: I said, well, you can't do that. I said that

465
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 2: you can't even bring a camera around.

466
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 1: The psychiatric hospital. It's just it's just you can't can't

467
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 1: do that. So oh, let us talk to the hospital

468
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: administrators and I said, okay, here we go. They laughed

469
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: them out of the room, but you gotta be kidding, yeah,

470
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: And then they're like asking me to solve the problem.

471
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, of course you can't do

472
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: this in an acute psychiatric hospital. But there's up the hill,

473
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: there's a residential program that a friend of mine runs.

474
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: I bet we could do it in a residential setting

475
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 1: and just bring my team up there and install my team,

476
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: used their policies and procedures and their licensing, and just

477
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: do what we do there.

478
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 2: And that's what we did.

479
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: We did it up there at this residential facility. And

480
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: there were many, many, many many other hoops I had

481
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: to jump through, like like, for instance, it's not licensed

482
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: for me to work inside the facility. So I so

483
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: the psychiatrist there, I went, how do you handle this?

484
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: He goes, well, I have a trailer in the back

485
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 1: with a semporate address, and that's where I see the patients.

486
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: So we had to build a double wide trailer in

487
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: the middle of the parking lot and get an address

488
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 1: and a license. All the groups you see and all

489
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: the sessions I'm having with the patients that's in a

490
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: trailer out in the parking lot. Wow, so your the

491
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: cameras are blinded to the patients walking across to the

492
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: to the trailer, but you know that's where that all

493
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: went down. They lots of things like that, but but

494
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: in the here's some of the comedies. So when this started,

495
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: I was really concerned. I was really like, oh my god,

496
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: this is I really want these people to do well.

497
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: They need help.

498
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: The first group like was like needed help and I

499
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: And it was really stressful to bring ten people all

500
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: at once into Normally you have people kind of trickling

501
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: in and the people that are there can then help

502
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: enroll the people that are newcomers and stuff. Everybody all

503
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: at once on one day into treatment very challenging and

504
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: every day in group you don't see it to this

505
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff you didn't see on TV. A

506
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: lot of the treatment you don't see on TV because

507
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: it's not TV. It was you know, it was constructed

508
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: as a reality show, not a treatment show. Yeah, and

509
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: so every group, I'd start out, you are you okay?

510
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: Are you okay?

511
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: At the camera's bothering you? Johnny to transfer it to

512
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: the facility. You're right, you're right, You're right right. I

513
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: was very anxious about this. And after about two weeks

514
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: of that, Mary Carey, who's a porn star, she leans

515
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: into group and she goes Drew, I've done just about

516
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: everything in front of a camera. I understand what this is.

517
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought, oh, okay, that's right. These people do

518
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: know what it is to be vulnerable in front of

519
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: a camera. Yet they know what that means.

520
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: Right.

521
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: It was the upside.

522
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing that happened that was stunning

523
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: to me. Eighty percent of those people that came in

524
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: came in wanting to get paid, wanted to make a

525
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: mockery of things, wanted to make fun of us, and

526
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: because we were so serious about the treatment. Within a week,

527
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: they all shifted to, oh my god, this is real treatment.

528
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm getting something out of this. Oh

529
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: my god, I want to be an example for other people.

530
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: That happened to almost every single patient. I want to

531
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: do well in treatment. I want to be an example

532
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: because this is important. I'm getting something out of this.

533
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: I want other people to understand that they can get

534
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: a lot out of this. That was talk about a godsend.

535
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, and it happened to

536
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: every group. It was really interesting. I started anticipating it

537
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: because it kept happening, and that I was very very

538
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: grateful for sure, and you know, and so and also

539
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: the other thing, because they did want to get paid

540
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: and did want to be on TV. I could push

541
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: them much harder than I normally do. Normally, if you

542
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: push somebody early in treatment, they leave this group. But

543
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know they want to stay, so I could

544
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: really really push and it was great. And people that

545
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: followed up did amazing, and people that didn't follow up

546
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: and didn't stay with the program did not do so

547
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: manch and the ones that passed away, almost without exception,

548
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: were killed by my peers. During the prescription drug pandemic,

549
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: people don't understand this. I would get people off drugs.

550
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: They'd be doing great, they no longer have pain, and

551
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: they would go back to their doctors, and their doctors

552
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: would say things like, don't listen to these people. They're

553
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: brainwashing you. I told you you need to be on

554
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: this oxy cont and the rest of your life.

555
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: Take it. Tell that to a drug addict, terrible.

556
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: They'd be gone no time. Mike Starr, the guitarist, he

557
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: was a legendary drug audent.

558
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: We had him.

559
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: We worked on him for months after the TV camera

560
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: stopped rolling, and he was doing so well. After about

561
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: close to a year, he suddenly goes, I'm going to Utah.

562
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: We're like, we're like whenever an addict says something like that,

563
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: you got to what's going on? Why are you going

564
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: to Utah?

565
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: Why?

566
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: Why my band we have to do some stuff. I'm

567
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: going to go with my bandmates. We're going to live

568
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 1: in a sober living. I'm gonna be next to Circlage.

569
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: He had all these plans that sounded good. Yet I'm

570
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: leaving sounded bad. Just that when an addict is making decisions,

571
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: it's like, oh.

572
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: Boy, yeah, So he does leave.

573
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: He calls me after about three weeks because I'm having

574
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: back pain. I said, Mike, please, dear God, whatever you do,

575
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: do not tell a physician that you have back pain.

576
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: Don't do it.

577
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: Goes In dies with OxyContin and soma at his bedside,

578
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: gave him the meds that heartbreaks came hard.

579
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: This heartbringing is just beyond. But anyway, that's that. So

580
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: we I feel like we elevate.

581
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: We ended up getting and seeing lots of people that

582
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: came to treatment because of celebrity rehab, and we wanted

583
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: to sort of throw open the mystery behind treatment. U.

584
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: Lets you understand, you know the the other thing that happened,

585
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: this is really really you remember Bob Forrest, the guy

586
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: with the hat and glasses. They were just He was

587
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: my lead counselor and I worked with them for years

588
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: and years. I actually stole him from that facility that

589
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: we were working at for the celebrity rehab and when

590
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: they were talking to me about doing this, I thought,

591
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: we can't do it. It's just not it's not I

592
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not comfortable with it. And vh one

593
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: showed interest and I was like, oh shit. I just

594
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: kind of went into hiding. And while during a three

595
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: month period where people are like where are you what

596
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: do you want to do, I'm like, I don't know.

597
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: Bob Forrest comes in my office one day and he

598
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: has no idea this has gone on. He comes to

599
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: my office and he goes, you know, I was watching

600
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: you know, No, I don't know pres Hilton Today or

601
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: TMZ or something. He goes, I'm so tired of how

602
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: our patients are being portrayed as so they're using their

603
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: addiction as an excuse, or they're on a vacation when

604
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: they come to treatment. You know what, we need to

605
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,239
Speaker 1: do a TV show where we show how sick they

606
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: get and how hard they worked it well. And I

607
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: was like, oh, my god, Bob, they somebody has approached

608
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: me to do this. And he leaned back and he goes,

609
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it. He smacked his hands in his

610
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: knees and he jumped up and left my office and

611
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: he goes, that's what we got to do. And I

612
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: was like, okay, that's what you think we got to do.

613
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: I'll go back to moving in that direction. It felt

614
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: very scary to me, very very very scary.

615
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 4: Yeah we did it, but so important, you know, just

616
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 4: speaking Yeah, personally, So, I struggle with anxiety.

617
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: Shocking huh, severe right.

618
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: Attack when I was depressed in college, and panic text disabling,

619
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: panic disabling. I suffered for years with that and I

620
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: was mismanaged. It was nineteen seventy eight. No one had

621
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: treatment for that stuff for an adolescent. He told me

622
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: to take long walks in the woods.

623
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: But you finished your story right, well, right, No, this

624
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 4: is because we've come so far, and yet I still

625
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 4: hear from people that they don't really understand what anxiety is.

626
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: Aren't we all worried? Well, of course, it's not just

627
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 3: being worried.

628
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 4: My anxiety is irrational and debilitating and crippling and paralyzing.

629
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: A sometimes existential, existential, but we don't talk about anxiety

630
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: in very graphic and grand other ways. I'm actually writing

631
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: a book about my mental health so that I do that,

632
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 4: so that someone younger than me or a parent can

633
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 4: read it and hear, oh, I'm doing that too, And

634
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: I don't have to or you know, to get help

635
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 4: before I did, because getting help at forty and unlearning

636
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 4: twenty thirty years of terrible habits really hard.

637
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 3: And I mean, we'll just get into it.

638
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 4: Because the addictive part of anxiety, I'm sure you know

639
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: studies about people getting addicted to the anxiety that it

640
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 4: functions like an addiction, and I for sure was addicted.

641
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 4: And the way I'm writing about it now is learning

642
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: to live without anxiety, because I got very good at

643
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: learning to live with it and incorporating it into my

644
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 4: daily life. Of course, the catastrophizing for me was self soothing.

645
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 4: If I thought about the awful thing, it wasn't going

646
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: to happen to me. And if I didn't think about

647
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: the awful thing and anticipate the crazy awful thing, that

648
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 4: definitely wasn't going to happen. If I didn't anticipate it,

649
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: that was inviting it. Yeah, and so this was self

650
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: soothing and I didn't realize.

651
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: Like preparing for that thing that's going to happen made

652
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: me feel.

653
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 4: Bad, and my anxiety actually wasn't over the thing. My

654
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: anxiety had to do with work and my value attached

655
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 4: to my work. And because I couldn't solve that problem,

656
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: my brain would find another problem or invent a problem

657
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 4: to solve it to make me feel better about it.

658
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: So this is a kind of addiction. It feels like

659
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: a kind of addiction. But if that's the case, what's

660
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 4: the gateway drug? How do we get addicted to this?

661
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to push back because because we were

662
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: saying this is my own because we were separated at birth,

663
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: I know we have the same issues, okay, And anxiety

664
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: comes in different flavors.

665
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: We have you and I have the O c D

666
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: flavor rituals.

667
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: Right, And so this is not addiction. This is OCD Okay, yep.

668
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: And that is and the O c D becomes gratifying. Okay,

669
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: it's not addiction because addiction progresses and it takes over

670
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: all other priorities. This is this is a repetitive, gratifying

671
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: circuit that opens up and we can't get out of it,

672
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: and we use it in all kinds of ways to

673
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: soothe and to manage into all these things. But it's

674
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: all ultimately a relative of OCDEA the anxiety.

675
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: Some people anxiety.

676
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: Alcoholics get anxiety, but it's a very different flavor. People

677
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: with depression get anxiety. Can have various flavors to it.

678
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: People are social anxiety.

679
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: That's not what anxiety.

680
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: Well, but it's But again, you're obsessing about how do

681
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: I look, how do I feel? All of our hyperachieving

682
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: can turn on us too. Yes, it's it's all that

683
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: I got it. I'm going to have you interview a

684
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: guy I know that's really good at this kind of

685
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: unraveling this.

686
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: Stuff and there are great treatments for it now.

687
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 4: And I'm in therapy and I talk about it all

688
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: the time now podcast. So I didn't want to do

689
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 4: a mental health podcast. I wanted to do a podcast

690
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: where I talk to interesting people and mental health could

691
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: come up naturally, of course, of course, because I want

692
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 4: to normalize talking about it like you would with your friends,

693
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: with your family.

694
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: Just talk about therapy. What'd you learn?

695
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 4: How you feeling? So I'm in therapy and I love

696
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: talking about it. I've learned so many things about my

697
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 4: own mind. Do you think that everyone should be in therapy?

698
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: I hate to say things like that. I think.

699
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: You know they're they're serious mental illness. This gets complicated, right,

700
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: there's serious mental illness, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia and any

701
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: of course. The fact that people don't seek treatment for

702
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: these things and or life threatening addictions and things.

703
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: That is insane to me.

704
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: That if you had a heart attack, you'd get treatment, right,

705
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: you have a brain disorder, you go to the streets.

706
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: What the right wrong with us?

707
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: Only country in the world that does that, by the way, So, yeah,

708
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: we need to get better at treating brain disorders. Roc

709
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: DA and anxiety is one of these brain conditions. It's

710
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: built on our genetics and then our experiences of trauma

711
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and to the extent that it makes us,

712
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: to the extent that it interferes with functioning.

713
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: That's a pretty broad category. Yes, you should be in treatment.

714
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes people leave out of those functioning sort

715
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: of equations interpersonal functioning, you know, sort of. And and

716
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: by the way, there is optimal functioning too. Now, if

717
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: you're interested in optimal function well, then you should also

718
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: be in treatment for there maybe holding you back. And

719
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: then there's sort of philosophical territory you can get into it,

720
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: you can go into analysis and all these explorations of

721
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: the mind. That's a that's more of a pastime, I

722
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: would argue. I mean, it's it's it can be useful

723
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: on the therapeutic side, but when you're if you're really

724
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: sitting on a couch three or five days a week,

725
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's necessary for many people.

726
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 4: But I think a lot of people think they have

727
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 4: to have suffered a major trauma, no, or have a

728
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 4: disorder or therapy.

729
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: To be helpful.

730
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: No, it's that that is that is in the optimal

731
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: functioning zone. I mean, think about athletes. They always seek

732
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: out for these kinds of they want to be optimally performed,

733
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: and so they always think seek out people that can

734
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: help them for that. And so yeah, so to that extent,

735
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: we can all benefit from it. And there are things

736
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: that come up in our life that we just don't

737
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: you know. Listen, So I was in therapy for long, long, long,

738
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: long time, and I'm back in therapy again. And what

739
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: put me in therapy the first time was my anxiety

740
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: disorder and it got so bad my wife called me

741
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: one day at work and said, you know, you need

742
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: to stay at therapist and I was like, oh, yeah,

743
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: I need to because I'm working in these people and

744
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: I need better blah blah, and she's like, no, you

745
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: need to see someone. The hair stood up in the

746
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: back of my neck. I was like, Okay, I'm putting

747
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: the phone down and I'm gonna call somebody, And thank

748
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: god I did. And I stayed in therapy for a

749
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: very very long period of time, and that therapy was

750
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: more about my trauma, because I discovered my anxiety was

751
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: to a great deal at that time in my life,

752
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: was due to the dissociation and disconnection from my primary

753
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: feeling states that the trauma had caused me.

754
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and so I had to learn how to feel again,

755
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: quite literally.

756
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: So sometimes when you don't feel, you're not connected to

757
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: your feelings, all you feel is anxiety.

758
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

759
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: And it was a great, wonderful experience. I mean, it

760
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: really helped me in a billion billion ways, and it

761
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: just so enriched what I could do with other people.

762
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: I can tune into other people.

763
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: I have a deep because what goes along with our

764
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: OCD or anxiety and our hyperachieving is also codependency.

765
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: So and so the codependency can get away.

766
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 1: From you unless you can have good boundaries and really

767
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: learn to attune to people and hold those boundaries, which

768
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: I was not good at when I started therapy, and

769
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: I became good at.

770
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 4: In my work, there are times where I'm covering war genocide.

771
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 4: I also do work with children and who are victims

772
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 4: of war, mainly in Syria, Lebanon now Ukraine and Gaza,

773
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 4: and so I have to see things that are so

774
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 4: graphic they don't make it to air. And I have

775
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: to process that both in my work and my philanthropic work.

776
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: And is it with kids? Is graphic stuff with kids?

777
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: Yes?

778
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: It is so hard to manage.

779
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 4: Which is so hard And at my worst of my anxiety,

780
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: I did a lot of transference where this was my kid.

781
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 4: They were all my kid of course of course, and

782
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 4: you right, and so it was very hard for me

783
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 4: to not internalize all of this work, which.

784
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: Would be normal.

785
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's impossible now, but this is my job.

786
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 3: This is not for fun, this is something you know,

787
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: I have to do, and so it's been a challenge.

788
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 4: And listen, the political stuff is hard to on my

789
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 4: anxiety but of course when your job this is true

790
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 4: for you too, when your job is something you love deeply,

791
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 4: but it's also a trigger because it's hard and you're

792
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 4: seeing things and doing things as a doctor or a

793
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 4: journalist that are hard to see and do. How do

794
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 4: you create boundaries within your own profession, within your own

795
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 4: your own space.

796
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was a couple answers to that. I

797
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: feel how profound what this is? This is profound. This

798
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: is not something passing. This is profound, right, And on

799
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: one hand, I think I would need some sort of

800
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: management of that. I would have to do EMDR or something.

801
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: So I did not go from a cute trauma to

802
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: chronic trauma, because I would get there. So personally, I

803
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: would do some sort of trauma management something, I'd have

804
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: somebody else. I'd have to upload to somebody else because

805
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't think I could handle it. And I'm sorry

806
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: you're I feel like I want to reach out to

807
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: you and you know, say how courageous it is. And

808
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: I know I get how profound.

809
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: Not everyone it's really hard.

810
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: I get it. I totally get it.

811
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: But do you love it?

812
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 4: And you feel in a way responsible, like if I'm

813
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: not doing it? Who's going to do it, and I

814
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: have to be the person to do it.

815
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so this is the other side that I

816
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: tell myself. It's like being an ambulance driver, Like you

817
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: have a job to do and you do it. Now,

818
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: in medicine, we are highly trained to get into situations

819
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: that are horrific and do our job.

820
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: And so I've done that a million times and I

821
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: made it out. Okay.

822
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

823
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: Part of it is the environment for me, Like when

824
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: I come upon bad stuff out in the world, it

825
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: traumatizes me because I don't have the structure around me

826
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: to do what I need to do to help and

827
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: all the support and all the people and all the

828
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: everything else. So I get very traumatized when I, you know,

829
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: come a kind of car accident or something. Well, if

830
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: that person rolls into the er, I can make it.

831
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: I can help. I can And you don't want and

832
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: you got to get.

833
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: A little I guess the third advice to get a

834
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: philosophical You can't let it destroy you because they need you.

835
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: You know, You've got to do a job and and

836
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: this this can't destroy you.

837
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: It has to you know, it's it's the aftermath that

838
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: you got to worry about and and that's the part

839
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: I would need help with. Particularly, I'm very sensitive to

840
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: the kids stuff, and most people are most people are

841
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: most people need some kind of trauma. I I've I

842
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: think he's talked about this publicly, so you wouldn't mind

843
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: me saying it. You know, I'm blanking as I'm lead

844
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: singer of Korn. Jonathan uh mm hmm or Jonathan's last name.

845
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: But he was a mortician before he became a round wow,

846
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: and his working on kids as a mortician gave him

847
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: horrific PTSD and he had to do all the right right.

848
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: It's like, you get it.

849
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's that's yeah, that sounds.

850
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: The good news is you're not doing what I used

851
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: to do, which is dissociating from all this. You're actually

852
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: feeling the feelings.

853
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 3: I am, and part of me wishes I could dissociate.

854
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 2: I know, I.

855
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: Understand, and and I probably would associate a little bit

856
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: that I distanced myself from it that way, but it's

857
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: not healthy. The chronic, your recurrent association is how you

858
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: get into trouble later because the part of yourself that

859
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: needs attention goes into hiding, but it doesn't go away.

860
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 4: Right right right, Well, listen, this is why I'm in

861
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: therapy talking about it every week. I'm on medication and

862
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 4: that's all helped good, but there's still like, well.

863
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: I see it, I see it, and I feel it,

864
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: I get it, and it feels like I don't know

865
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: what's going on in therapy for you, but but you

866
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: really need somebody to attune to you, like really tune

867
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: into your feelings and be there with you with those feelings. Yes,

868
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: and in a weird way, that's what EMDR is. But

869
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: you may just need some few hours of people just

870
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: being with you because our brain, we can only handle

871
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: so much on our own. Our brain hits its capacity totally.

872
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: It's totally appreciate.

873
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what happened. And it was almost like I

874
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: had like a nervous.

875
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 4: Breakdown one day, very suddenly, and it felt like this

876
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: is how I described it, like I owe.

877
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: Deed on anxiety.

878
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: What it's a panic attack?

879
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 4: Right, it was, But it was like my body told

880
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: me that day, I'm not doing this anymore. We can't

881
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 4: keep doing this. You can't the twenty four to seven

882
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: and it was twenty four seven catastrophizing, which is just

883
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 4: too much adrenaline you can't. You're not meant to be

884
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 4: in fight or flight all day long. And it's like

885
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 4: my body was saying stop and I, you know, everything stopped.

886
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 4: I could in the wake of that attack. I couldn't

887
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 4: see well, I couldn't read, I couldn't make decisions.

888
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: The good news is it was so severe. I got

889
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 3: help right away, like the next day.

890
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: I had that exact thing and stop it.

891
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 4: Uh.

892
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: And I didn't know what was going on. I just

893
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: laid in bed for a couple of days and it

894
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: was so and that's not me. I was like, I

895
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: was like, what is going on?

896
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: And God help? But was mismanished for like a year.

897
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: Oh no, And so I went from these disabling panics

898
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: to sort of chronic severe anxiety.

899
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 4: So anyway, well, finding the right treatment is so crucial,

900
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 4: and I've switched therapists a couple of times, but I

901
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 4: really like my therapists now and I.

902
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: Have learned a lot of I wouldn't call them tricks.

903
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 3: And I fucking hate this doctor Drew. I hate the

904
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 3: TikTok people who go out and are like, I've got

905
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: a way to hack your anxiety to stop the word.

906
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 2: There's no hack.

907
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: There's no hack.

908
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 4: And you haven't met me, you haven't diagnosed me. You

909
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 4: don't know what my anxiety is. You cannot stop it.

910
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna hack a cloud, You're going to hack a

911
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: river or something. Biology is like a very probable, is

912
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: not like a computer. It's very different human experience, very

913
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: very different. I don't like the word hack.

914
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 3: Well, I hate that. And it's not that simple.

915
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 4: You can't diagnose me from TikTok no, And it gives people,

916
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 4: I think, a false impression of anxiety, like it's just

917
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 4: some mind trick that you can like snap your fingers

918
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 4: and crack the code.

919
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: That's not it.

920
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: And everybody's different that way too. And isn't it interesting

921
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: that that TikTok serves that shit up to you? Isn't

922
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: that weird?

923
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: And it's again, it keeps serving to me.

924
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's weird.

925
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 4: I know.

926
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: But I hate that. And I promised myself i'd never

927
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: do that.

928
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 4: When I share the things that have worked for me

929
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: or the things that have not worked for me, I'm

930
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 4: very clear this is what worked for me.

931
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't give advice.

932
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 4: I really made a promise to myself that once I,

933
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 4: you know, got into this space, I wouldn't act like

934
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 4: I knew anything about your mental health.

935
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 3: I barely know anything about my own. That's why I

936
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: go see experts, you know.

937
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 4: So that's really important to me being responsible with the

938
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: way we talk about it.

939
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I'm just I don't know if

940
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: you've had the feedback yet, but when you do talk

941
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: about your mental health, people are always like, what you have?

942
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, everybody like success inoculates you from mental health problems.

943
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: It does not.

944
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 2: No, In fact, you know, you're a little more likely.

945
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: I say, that's what my research shows, you know, because

946
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 1: whenever you excess of any type, you know, working extra hard,

947
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: there's a reason that enginees running. It's usually not healthy. Yeah,

948
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: for sure, just because of health.

949
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: My uncle was very wise, would say, but this is

950
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 4: what made you successful. Yeah, and that's that's the loop

951
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 4: you play in your mind. Well, if I weren't like this,

952
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: I probably wouldn't have been as ambitious. And you know, but.

953
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, that's that's I've been told that a few

954
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: times too, and I'm like, I've suffered a lot because

955
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 1: but I don't know, but I might have been.

956
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: The same, but maybe not.

957
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: Whatever you you have to own, you have to figure

958
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: out ways to own all of it, because you know,

959
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: back back, as you work through all this stuff, you

960
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: have to be grateful for everything you have, including the

961
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: miserable stuff exactly got. And when you find gratitude and humility,

962
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: when you find those things and forgiveness, I always know

963
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: when people are doing well from mental health standpoint because

964
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: they start talking about humility and forgiveness and gratitude those

965
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: and when you're grateful, you start like, the fact that

966
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: my mother was abusive to me is a neutral thing.

967
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: It's just like it happened. She was not a well person.

968
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: How could you It's not okay to do Like, how

969
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: could you do that to a kid? That's not okay.

970
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: But the fact that she did it to me doesn't

971
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: have any big importance. It just is what it was.

972
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 2: And you know, I feel bad for her, right and

973
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for everything I had.

974
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 4: That's a good place to end the mental health portion

975
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 4: of this conversation.

976
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: Going from here you're scaring me.

977
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 4: Now we have a fun, fun turn. It's a fun

978
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 4: lightning round, all right.

979
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 2: Okay, But let me just say something.

980
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: I feel sort of honored to be here with you

981
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: while you spoke so openly about your feelings and your

982
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: experiences and I and I want to just honor that.

983
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so.

984
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 4: Well right back to you, thank you for creating spaces

985
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 4: like this for so many years where people could talk

986
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 4: openly about the hard stuff because paved the way.

987
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: It's about the best thing you can say to me,

988
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: because that's that's what I want to do, is create environments,

989
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: create things that make things better, which God knows this

990
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: country needs that now totally.

991
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: Okay, ready, lightning round all right, here we go.

992
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: At the top of your wiki bio, it says Drew

993
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 4: Pinsky doctor Drew not to be confused with who.

994
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: Geez, doctor Dre correct because because I get his stuff

995
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: on X all the time, and I bet he gets

996
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: my stuff and sometimes it's sometimes it's confusing.

997
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: Like what what what are you talking about? Oh Drey?

998
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: Okay, do you think you're And sometimes they'll put my

999
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: name in they'll get that right, but clearly.

1000
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: It's for Drey.

1001
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: So funny. I loved that.

1002
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 4: Okay, you are in a Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen

1003
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 4: movie New York Minute classic.

1004
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: Who do you play?

1005
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: I play their father?

1006
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: What's his name? And uh, oh you can go with

1007
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 3: doctor blank.

1008
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: Doctor Olsen. Nope, I don't have any idea.

1009
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 3: I remember doctor Ryan.

1010
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 2: Oh, doctor Ryan, Yes, that's right.

1011
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: You know. Uh and and Sagot and I became good

1012
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: friends too, and uh yeah, and his wife and I

1013
00:47:59,120 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: have been friends ever since.

1014
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 4: Wait, wait a sec. Yeah, we've had Kelly on the

1015
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 4: pod because I knew Bob. We did a roast together

1016
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 4: and he was so lovely and almost fatherly and you

1017
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 4: paternal to me and wonderful, and hearing Kelly talk about

1018
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 4: him was really was really wonderful.

1019
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: The reason I know Kelly well now because Bob was

1020
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: always that we got to go to know you got

1021
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: to meet my life. She's a wonderful woe. Yeah, and

1022
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: I ran into him. He did a movie anyway, the

1023
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: long story, but I really got to know her because

1024
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: her agent had we talked to her about going wherever

1025
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: they took her to do the what's the name of

1026
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: the series now called Special Forces?

1027
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: Oh right, last year because I was in the Special.

1028
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: Forces that was in the desert and I ended up

1029
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: in the hospital very quickly. Long story, but I still

1030
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: love the experience. I loved it, loved it, loved it,

1031
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: and so I convinced Kelly to do it too.

1032
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 3: Oh that's great. Oh I love that. Okay, you have

1033
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 3: an asteroid named after you. What's it called?

1034
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: It's me and Adam, isn't it now? No, I don't know.

1035
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: I just saw munch of numbers and letters. I don't know.

1036
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 4: It's asteroid four five three six, Draupinski and Drapinski is

1037
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 4: one word.

1038
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: Okay.

1039
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 4: So I just know that in like two hundred years,

1040
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 4: astronomy students are going to call it Jupinski and someone's

1041
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 4: going to tell them that's named after a real person

1042
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 4: named Drew Pinsky, and that's going to blow their minds.

1043
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 2: I just hope to god it doesn't come near and

1044
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: have a near orbits.

1045
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 3: To the aid famous.

1046
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, but it was.

1047
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: It was given to me by a astronomy professor at

1048
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: I went to Amherst College, and this professor was at

1049
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: UMass Amherst and was a big Love Line fan and

1050
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: came to visit me in Adam and named asteroids after us.

1051
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 4: I'm a big space nerd, so I actually love stuff

1052
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 4: like that. But you know they're just going to think,

1053
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 4: what's a Drapinski.

1054
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: I know it's not gonna have any meeting like they don't.

1055
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 3: Kids today don't know, well, nobody knows. People don't know

1056
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 3: that Taco bell is actually named after its founder, Glenn Bell.

1057
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: I did.

1058
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 4: I did not know that Platts is named after Joe Pillotates,

1059
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 4: the guy who founded it.

1060
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: I did not know that.

1061
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: I love it when people's names become an acrony. You know,

1062
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: just something means something totally different.

1063
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: It's gonna be you, You're gonna.

1064
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: Be jun something else. The name after me.

1065
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: And then what do you and Mike rowe have in common?

1066
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: We had a show on Discovery at the same time,

1067
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: and we used to tour around with that. The upfronts

1068
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: for those shows. Is that what you're talking about?

1069
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: Did we grow up in the same place or something?

1070
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 3: Tell me what it's opera?

1071
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 2: Oh, that's right, he saw, that's right. And I didn't

1072
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: learn that until much later.

1073
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: And and uh, it's a fun fact.

1074
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: I know.

1075
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: It's a great thing about.

1076
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 3: Both of you.

1077
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

1078
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: And let me tell you something. As you get older,

1079
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: the instrument changes. I had a really good instrument when

1080
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: I was younger. Now I I what I did the

1081
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: Masked Singer because I was I was I was like,

1082
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: I should do that I sing and uh. In prep

1083
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: for that, I found out I have some really serious

1084
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: chord problems because I was called the passagio.

1085
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: It just it just my chords wouldn't come together. I

1086
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, something is wrong.

1087
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: Is that because the business how much we do in media.

1088
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't that.

1089
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: It's I have a varisee on there and it's reflux

1090
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: and the only way to repair it is with a

1091
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: with a laser that would require like three to four

1092
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: weeks of vocal rest.

1093
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: What am I going to do that?

1094
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah? Talk right?

1095
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1096
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: Do you have noes?

1097
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 2: No nodes? Yeah?

1098
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: No, no, but this variite And at the time of

1099
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: the mass Singer, because I was prepping and all of

1100
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: a sudden, I lost that mid range I had bled

1101
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: into my chords from one of those core one of

1102
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: those verises.

1103
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's bad, bad, Okay, this is Mary f Kill,

1104
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 4: except I don't like that because it's mean.

1105
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna We're gonna do a different version of

1106
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 3: Mary F Kill.

1107
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 4: I'm going to name three TV doctors and you have

1108
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 4: to tell me which one you'd want to be in

1109
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 4: an emergency, which one you'd want to go to a

1110
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 4: ballgame with, and whose medical license you'd take away.

1111
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: Don't make me do that, okay, license, ballgame? And what

1112
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: was the first secon first?

1113
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 3: Who you'd want to be in with an emergency? Okay,

1114
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 3: doctor Oz, doctor Phil, doctor Terry Dubrow.

1115
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: So there, okay, let me the full disclosure. Then let

1116
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: me tell you that this that is a really interesting

1117
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: group to give me because uh, Terry and Mamett, Oz

1118
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 1: and I are very good friends. Okay, Okay, so you're

1119
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: asking me to do it with my friends here, Oz

1120
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: and Terry. And this is not to diminished Terry at all.

1121
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: He is a really consummate surgeon. He's a he is

1122
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: a star. But Oz was the chairman of the Department

1123
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: of Cardiothoracic Surgery at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. That is one

1124
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: of the highest positions in the land. Okay, whom my

1125
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: med Oz is. So whenever you people diminish him, just go, yes,

1126
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: he did TV. But he is he is that guy

1127
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: and and he is brillieving or talk to him.

1128
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 2: He is that brilliant.

1129
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: So er is where I'm going with my mad and

1130
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: ballgame is where I'm going with Terry. You're a little

1131
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: more friendly than working together, But I would not take

1132
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: Phil's license away. Okay, and let me tell you something Phil.

1133
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: Phil I used to be very frustrated with because what

1134
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: he was doing on TV frustrated me because it wasn't

1135
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: anything it was. I kept going, this, people are getting

1136
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: the wrong idea, this confrontation thing.

1137
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 2: This is not what you do to people.

1138
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 3: You don't do that.

1139
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: And when you close the door that they just put

1140
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: up on their force fields and their defenses and stuff.

1141
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: And I started softening my position and going, oh, he's

1142
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: just doing a talk. He's doing TV. He is a

1143
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: really serious talent for doing talk a certain way, and

1144
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: he uses his knowledge and ability as a psychologists to

1145
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: do talk. It has still giving people the wrong impression.

1146
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: I just last three days ago, I was talking to somebody.

1147
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: I said, No, that's that's not what treatment is. That's

1148
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: what Phil does. That's not what treatment right, right, And

1149
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 1: my esteem and respect to him has ever since I softened.

1150
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: I really have high high esteem for him. I think

1151
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: he does amazing work. He's doing a great job. I

1152
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: fully fully endorse everything he does, and so anything I

1153
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: I this is something. I'm glad we're having this conversation

1154
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: because I am looking I look for every opportunity to

1155
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 1: apologize now in my life where I've gotten something wrong,

1156
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: I misjudged somebody, and I wanted I'm doing this for

1157
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons.

1158
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: One is because we all.

1159
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: Need to have truth and reconciliation everything, and so I

1160
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: want to be a model for that. And so Phil,

1161
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: my deepest apologies for any negativity I felt or experienced.

1162
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: I was wrong.

1163
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: You were doing something exceptional. I didn't appreciate it, and

1164
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: I was absolutely wrong. You know where this started for me?

1165
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: Do you know who Naomi Wolf is?

1166
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 3: Yes?

1167
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: Okay, because become a friend. And she was going on

1168
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: and on and on about the vaccine and women's menstrual periods.

1169
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: And I said the following, and I go, I got

1170
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: NAIOI women's menstrual periods. I mean, come on, they get

1171
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: affected by everything, the wind blows wrong. Let's let's talk

1172
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: about something serious. And and and then I started hearing

1173
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: what that did to women and their fertility and these things.

1174
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: And I thought, God, for God's sakes, what an asshole?

1175
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 2: What an asshole? What a sexist asshole?

1176
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: And I brought, I brought and Naomi into this kind

1177
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 1: of Armisionaomi, I want to follow my sword that was sexist,

1178
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: it was dismissive, it was unforgivable, and I apologize, and

1179
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: every chance I get, I apologize to her again because

1180
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: that was that was so wrong. Uh, and it was

1181
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: so sexist and so disgusting of me. So anyway, that

1182
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: was that was where I started my apology tour. That

1183
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: was one of the things that I apologize about.

1184
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I love a good apology tour.

1185
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's it's empowering. You learn from it,

1186
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 2: you learn you won't do it again.

1187
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 3: Yes, do you watch the show Shrinking?

1188
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 2: No, I heard about it. I do not watch it.

1189
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: I don't love it because I don't love the way

1190
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: it portrays therapy.

1191
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: Well, the therapy does not lend itself to television period.

1192
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 3: No, it's boring. It's not that boring.

1193
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: It's too slow.

1194
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: We're talking about rewiring a brain, which takes months to years,

1195
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: and even when you have a sort of a breakthrough

1196
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: or a moment or a technique, you've got to go

1197
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: practice it in the world a million times, and then

1198
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: you come back in a different context and a different

1199
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: way of thinking about it.

1200
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: It just takes forever.

1201
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: That's right.

1202
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: That's in fact, what I was talking to somebody about

1203
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: when when he was he was wanting to put something

1204
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 1: on TV, and I go that that's not treatment, that's

1205
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: not that's what doctor Phil does. And if you want

1206
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: somebody to do that, go do that it on TV

1207
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: because that does work. But don't think that's treatment. That

1208
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: is not treatment.

1209
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 4: Perfect final question, and it's the most important to me

1210
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 4: culturally and spiritually.

1211
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 3: When is iced coffee season?

1212
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 2: When is ice coffee season for me or for the

1213
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 2: average person? For you? Never?

1214
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew we were going to break us somewhere.

1215
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 4: That's where we break. That's where we break, because the

1216
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 4: answer is your round.

1217
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: But well, but maybe it's interesting I think how extreme

1218
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: that break is. But maybe I'll bring it up and

1219
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: I'll try it in the summer. As an homage to

1220
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: this conversation.

1221
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 4: Well, this was really fun, helpful, informative all the things,

1222
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 4: which is what we aim for here.

1223
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: So thank you well, and it is because of you,

1224
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: and so thank you for that, and thank you for

1225
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: doing this show, and thank you for having me on.

1226
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: Coming up next week on Off the Cup.

1227
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 4: That guy from every TV show and movie you've ever watched,

1228
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 4: it's my friend, Spencer Garrett.

1229
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 3: I got recognized the other day for Once upon a

1230
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 3: time in Hollywood. I sort of joke that my tombstone

1231
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: is going to say, here lies that guy from that thing.

1232
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 3: I'm that guy from that thing.

1233
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: Aren't you that? Aren't you that? Like we got to

1234
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: high school together? No where do I know you from?

1235
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: And then they'll finally kind of piece it together.

1236
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 4: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1237
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 4: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1238
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the.

1239
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 4: Other Reason Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native

1240
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 4: Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I am your host,

1241
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 4: Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our

1242
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 4: executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson.

1243
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 3: And Lindsay Hoffman.

1244
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 4: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or

1245
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 4: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.