1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to it could happen here um

2
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:14,560
Speaker 1: the show where things happen people talk about it, Yes,

3
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,960
Speaker 1: in this present location. That's correct. Last episode we spoke

4
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 1: about the concept of the growth and what it means

5
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: to the growth, how the growth as a movement came about,

6
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 1: what inspired the critique that the growth pushes, and what

7
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 1: the growth means for those of us who live in

8
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 1: the Global South, how we can go about imagining um

9
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: new and different paths to a better life within ecological limits.

10
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: This episode will continue in that conversation talking about what

11
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 1: is essential for the growth. As I discussed in the

12
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 1: previous episode, the growth is about striving for self determined

13
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 1: life and dignity for all. It means an economy in

14
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,919
Speaker 1: a society that can sustain the natural basis of life.

15
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: It means reduction of production and consumption the globe on

16
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: the north and the liberation on the one sided Western

17
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: paradigm of development, so that the Global South can explore

18
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 1: their own, our own, self determined pace of social organization.

19
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: The growth means an extension of democratic decision making to

20
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: allow for real political participation. The growth means that social

21
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 1: changes organized and oriented towards sufficiency and self sufficiency and

22
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: ecological sustainability, rather than the pursuits of a line grew

23
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: up a pursuit of economic growth, regardless of its impact

24
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 1: on people planet. Ad growth, of course, advocates for the

25
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: creation of open, connected, and localized economies. There are several

26
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,959
Speaker 1: steps that need to be taken in order to achieve

27
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 1: a D growth society. Achieve a D growth will to

28
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 1: de grow. For one, I think that, as Jason Hickel

29
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: advocates in his book Less is More, we absolutely need

30
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 1: to put an end to the practice of planned obsolescence,

31
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 1: whether it be in household appliances and tools and furniture

32
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 1: and computers. We need to shift away from this idea

33
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 1: of products being produced to break down in a certain

34
00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 1: timeline and require replacement. Um. I reasonally have witnessed a

35
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,080
Speaker 1: lot of older technologies that continued to last to this

36
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 1: day before because they were invented before this will practice

37
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 1: a planets lessons really keen about. Yeah, but my family

38
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: we have a microwave that is like a decade older

39
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,239
Speaker 1: than I am and it still works fine. Wow. Yeah,

40
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: And I mean in my own lifetime, I've had to

41
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 1: purchase multiple microwaves, so it's it's ridiculous. Yeah, That's always

42
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,079
Speaker 1: one of the things that I always thought like there

43
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: was a real sort of like this is how you

44
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: this is how you appeal to conservative people with this

45
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 1: is just like, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna

46
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 1: bring back like nineteen sixties microwaves where everything is a

47
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: dial and it doesn't break every Yeah, because I think, yeah,

48
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: I think what's what's missing in the conversation about team

49
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 1: growth is a lot of people like that they assume

50
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 1: because they react with now that everybody else will, you know,

51
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: they kind of project their own reaction to others. But

52
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:13,400
Speaker 1: I think political spectrum aside um or political chart or

53
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,039
Speaker 1: how are you gonna um map out the unmappable UM.

54
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: I think that people generally, as I was discussing the

55
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:30,280
Speaker 1: previous episode, want a good life, and that requires qualitative

56
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 1: changes far more than it requires quantitative changes. Of course,

57
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 1: there are places where quantitative changes are needed to make

58
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 1: some things accessible to that population. UM. But we already

59
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 1: overproduce a lot of different things UM, and a lot

60
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: of overproduction is completely necessary because it is based and

61
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 1: planned obs lessons in order to increase profits, and so

62
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,119
Speaker 1: that needs to once that is discarded. I think people

63
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 1: have will will best be able to access that quality

64
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 1: of life because we look at a lot of the

65
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 1: sudden expenses that people have to deal with. You know,

66
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 1: you've fridge suddenly breaking down, your stove suddenly breaking down,

67
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 1: in my careave for your toolster suddenly breaking now, and

68
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 1: or you wash the machine. Um. I think in this

69
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 1: year alone, have had to fix the washing machine three

70
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 1: or four times because it's just constantly breaks down. And

71
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,840
Speaker 1: when instead we can save that those resources, see if

72
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,359
Speaker 1: that time, see that energy, see that money. Um, just

73
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,840
Speaker 1: producing quality for the foodst time, you know, put an

74
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: end to those deliberate manufacturing decisions and developing long lasting

75
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 1: modular products that can reduce our you know, material and

76
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 1: energy use worldwide. I think in a lot of cases,

77
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily need more innovation. You know, I don't

78
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 1: think we really need like a smart fridge. I think

79
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 1: we just need a fridge that works for decades without

80
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 1: breaking down constantly. Yeah, And like so much of the

81
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 1: stuff that's sort of like nominally is informat like it

82
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,600
Speaker 1: is supposed to be. Innovation is just how how how

83
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: can we make this product in such a way that

84
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 1: we can sell consumer data about you from it like

85
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 1: we don't need to do that. We can simply not,

86
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,280
Speaker 1: we can simply not, we can simply not exactly exactly.

87
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 1: And speaking of things that we can simply not, we

88
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 1: can simply not assault our senses constantly with advertisis And

89
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 1: because advertising just continues to see this poopers of generating

90
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: social divisions, highlighting class divisions, and manipulating people into consuming

91
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 1: stuff they don't need. As a card carrying member of

92
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:09,359
Speaker 1: Generations Z, I have not I do not typically watch

93
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: much TV. UM. I used to watch TV because I'm

94
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,119
Speaker 1: the older gen Z contin gent, but with the rise

95
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 1: of streaming services UM, which I do not use, yoho hoo,

96
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 1: is I have to say about that? UM, I have

97
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: not watched much TV. UM. But there's a certain reality

98
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: shoes that I enjoy, like the Amazing Race UM, and

99
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,400
Speaker 1: so those sense to be showing on TV. I like Jeopardy.

100
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: I like to watch Jeopardy and the constant deeply unfunny, irritating, annoying, loud,

101
00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: flashy barrage of commercials quite aggravating. UM. Honestly, the golden

102
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 1: age of crucials being funny. It was a long time

103
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: ago and now it's just suits. One of the things

104
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: that I mentioned that in UM, in the episode that

105
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: we had done on the Commons. One of the things

106
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 1: that I one of the positions I held even before

107
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 1: I was an anarchist, was my opposition to the advertising

108
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 1: industry to advertise it. I can't stand advertising. Everybody walk, everybody,

109
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,320
Speaker 1: screw everything you watch and listen to it's also going

110
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,520
Speaker 1: to sell you something. Um. I would love to be

111
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 1: able to go outside and not see ads all the time.

112
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,959
Speaker 1: I would love to use a screw to the incident

113
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: out seeing ads all the time. UM. And so getting

114
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: really advertising industry, getting rid of all these ads are

115
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,520
Speaker 1: just pushing us to consume one and more um, and

116
00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 1: oftentimes just promoting a lot of really harmful societal ideas,

117
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, um, body images, use and alcoholism and a

118
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,440
Speaker 1: lot of our worst practices and a lot of really

119
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 1: terrible things of being promoted through ads. And so yeah,

120
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: tear it down and watch consumerism perish. When you think

121
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 1: about really history the advertise industry and how it came about.

122
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,559
Speaker 1: As a mass communication student, UM, that's something that I

123
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 1: would have spend some time looking into. Advertising really came

124
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 1: about in response to you know, this need that people had,

125
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 1: really that that that that companies had to get people

126
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,080
Speaker 1: to consume because in a lot of cases, you know,

127
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 1: people would buy something and a newer model would come

128
00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 1: out and they would really pay attention to it because

129
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 1: already have the thing. I don't need to get another thing. Um.

130
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,040
Speaker 1: But you know, you can't run a profitable business that wey.

131
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: So they basically used advertising to push people to consume more,

132
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 1: and so we need to get rid of the advertising industry.

133
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: Another stuff we can take to us the growth is

134
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 1: to shift from ownership to use the fruct um. Use

135
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,079
Speaker 1: of fruct is something that Marie booked Chin Social Ecologists

136
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: talks a lot about um in his book The Ecology

137
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: of Freedom, and it's essentially the freedom of individuals or

138
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,239
Speaker 1: groups in a community to access and use, but not destroy,

139
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,599
Speaker 1: common resources to supply their needs. The term use of

140
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: fruct comes from Roman property law, I believe, which would

141
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: include use us the right to use. Sorry, unfortunately I

142
00:10:54,559 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 1: did not take Latin yeah practice. It's just the right

143
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:06,440
Speaker 1: to enjoy the fruit of one's property and abuse us,

144
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 1: which is the right to destroy one's property. So use

145
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,720
Speaker 1: us fruct us and abuse us um, and so use

146
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 1: of fractice really the combination of the first two principles.

147
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 1: Right to access and use and enjoy the fruit of

148
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 1: um commonly held property without you the right to destroy

149
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 1: it UM so everyone can supply their needs. So instead

150
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 1: of and I mean two libraries already a concept that

151
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,959
Speaker 1: they exists around the world, rather than a hundred people

152
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: in a community each individually order an electric drill, UM,

153
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 1: one person or rather one library can host or three

154
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 1: or four electric drills and effectively serve everyone's need for

155
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,719
Speaker 1: a drill when they need it, because unless they're carpenter

156
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: or really into arts and crafts, you probably don't need

157
00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,040
Speaker 1: an electric drill all the time. Another thing that we're

158
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,679
Speaker 1: really helping or pushed towards the RUTH will be getting

159
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,439
Speaker 1: rid of car dependency, because the consumption of vehicles, the

160
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,439
Speaker 1: mainstendence of vehicles, the maintenance of the infrastructure of vehicles,

161
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 1: use all of those things requires a lot of resources,

162
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, concrete and oil and gas and metals and

163
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,439
Speaker 1: great earth minerals. And rather than forcing everyone to produce

164
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: these things we could consume those things, we can instead

165
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: shift towards walkable model for our urban environments. UM so

166
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 1: that people who do need to use vehicles in rural settings,

167
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,680
Speaker 1: for example, can use them, and you can use them

168
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:45,600
Speaker 1: without causing unnecessarily unnecessary harm contributing to unnecessary harm superfluous

169
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 1: harm on the planet. UM. Getting rid of car dependency

170
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 1: would also mean that fewer people would need vehicles, and

171
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 1: the vehicles that the few vehicles that we do produce

172
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 1: UM can be shaped in common to serve needs that

173
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,160
Speaker 1: cannot be filled by like bikes or you know, probably

174
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,960
Speaker 1: transportation systems. Another element of deep growth would really be

175
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,040
Speaker 1: the reduction of our energy material use through the transformation

176
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: of our agriculture systems. It is true that we currently

177
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 1: produce enough food for I believe ten billion people. A

178
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,840
Speaker 1: lot of that food is wasted. UM. A lot of

179
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 1: food doesn't reach people. UM. It's really an issue of

180
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 1: allocation and not necessary production. But at the same time

181
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,960
Speaker 1: that production is extremely harmful. UM. It relies on a

182
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 1: lot of damaging chemicals, relies on the stripping of our

183
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 1: top soils, relies on the overuse of antibiotics, relies on

184
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 1: the abuse of animals. UM. The way that we currently

185
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 1: feed the world is deeply unequal, extremely inefficient, environmentally degrading,

186
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,959
Speaker 1: and energy wasting we cannot continue to treat our farms

187
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: like factories. We need to find we used to feed

188
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: ourselves densely and compatibly with the amount and the living world.

189
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 1: Scaling down to localized proma culture can help. CHANI based

190
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: agricultural systems, community supported agriculture, urban gardens, aquaponics, cultured meats, aquacultures,

191
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: and exploring other more traditional forms of food raising will

192
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 1: need to be the route that we take. Already, we

193
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 1: are killing our soils, We are running out to the

194
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 1: fossil fuels that UM the agricultural industry relies on. And

195
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 1: if we continue along the trajectory, we have a big

196
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,720
Speaker 1: storm coming. We have probably the greatest famine the plant

197
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 1: has ever seen on its way. If we do not

198
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: aim to build food autonomy, aim to rewild our ecologies

199
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 1: aimed to reconfigure our consumption patterns or food production and

200
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 1: consumption patterns two seequester more carbon to allocate two more people,

201
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 1: to produce healthier foods um and to really to recover

202
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 1: the earth. Another important stuff we can take in the

203
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: growth would be to get rid of what scale down

204
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: to an especially destructive industries. There is, of course, agriculture.

205
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 1: There's um the fossil fuels industry, the arms industry, private

206
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: jet industry, the automobile industry, the airline industries. All of

207
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,600
Speaker 1: these industries must either be slimmed down or gotten rid

208
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 1: of um because as the pandemic has showing, very few

209
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: of the jobs that are currently undertaken around the world

210
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 1: are truly essential to maintain in the bare bones of life.

211
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: And of course we do need to reconfigure the way

212
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 1: that we live. The ways of life you don't have

213
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 1: to reflect ecological limits. But even with that reconfiguration, I

214
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: think we knew what industries needed and what on UM.

215
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 1: I always find it strange, This is, I guess a tangent.

216
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 1: I always find it strange that politicians are celebrated for

217
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: bracken about creating new jobs, when in reality, I believe

218
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: and really the vision was in the twentieth century that

219
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 1: we would reach a point where fewer and fewer people

220
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: needed to work, and that we need to work for

221
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: less time um. And so that really is part of

222
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,159
Speaker 1: the aim of the growth. Reviving that pursuit, reviving that

223
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 1: cool because we have reached the point where we can

224
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 1: um scale on the amount of time each posson has

225
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: to work skill only amounts of jobs and an't necessary. Um.

226
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,640
Speaker 1: If you've read Bullshit Jobs by David Greable, you'll see

227
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 1: that a lot of particularly service economy jobs ah practically worthless. Um.

228
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: And I actually saw kind of funny video talking about

229
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 1: how at this point office culture is more of a religion.

230
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah that's so good. Yeah, so that going and going

231
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,439
Speaker 1: around making the surrounds on Twitter, that was really funny. Um.

232
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, we just move around a bunch of people

233
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: move around and wunt numbers. If you've seen, um, the

234
00:17:53,840 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 1: show Succession, that Succession Severance, do you see the show's sufferance. Um,

235
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty much like an our slash anti work

236
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:13,200
Speaker 1: type show. UM. And so I think one more people

237
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 1: are coming too, the realization that hey, this kind of sucks,

238
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: the fact that we have to work this much, so

239
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,880
Speaker 1: we need to reduce the amount of time we work, um,

240
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: the type of work between to change type of work

241
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 1: we do. So it's a quantitative and qualitative shift and

242
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,240
Speaker 1: something I spoke about in my view on anti work

243
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: or post work, whatever you want to call it. These changes,

244
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: these steps to skal on total energy use, can be

245
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: taken by a broad range of organizations. Groups, mass movements,

246
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: popular assemblies, unions, cooperatives, not waiting for the state, but

247
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: going beyond it. I think we've seen by now. I

248
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: think if you have not seen right now, it needs

249
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: open your eyes. The state is not doing enough or

250
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 1: some cases not doing anything at all, to respond to

251
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 1: these cry sees, and we need to take it into

252
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 1: our own hands to do so. UM. I have a

253
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 1: video in store UM for December that as one of

254
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: my patron's jokes, might have the alphabet agencies after me.

255
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of different actions that we

256
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 1: can take UM to integrate the growth, to move towards

257
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 1: a decro society, to de grow our economies, a combination

258
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:49,919
Speaker 1: of acts of confrontation and non cooperation and prefiguration in

259
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: some degrowth challenges. The dominant growth imperative it's in the

260
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: name it is intentionally servers of in its title because

261
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: it requires us to think about how we can collectively

262
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: organize the restructuring of all economy and the downscale of

263
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: energy and resource use worldwide. The transition back into balance

264
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 1: with the living will in a safe, just an equitable way.

265
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: The growth means striving for a selftitude, life and dignity

266
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: and abundance for all. The growth of mean liberating ourselves

267
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: not just from the ways that the growth imperative has

268
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: shaped our technologies. Education the growth who require that we

269
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: not just liberate ourselves from the ways that the growth

270
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: imperative has shaved our technologies and institutions, but it demands

271
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: that we also reconsider education our cultural norms and values,

272
00:20:53,320 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: or identities or mindsets or relationships. It will be a

273
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: massive shift with anarchists called social revolution um, but it's

274
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: one that is worthwhile. As some de growth advocates would see,

275
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: it's de growth by choice or the growth by force?

276
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: What's the use of de growth here? Has being used

277
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: slightly differently, the growth by choice being like I described,

278
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: collectively organized, democratically managed restructure of the economy to bring

279
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: into bounce the living will in a safe, just nequitable

280
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 1: way um, whereas de growth by force is more so

281
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: a combination of austerity and apocalypse. So up to you,

282
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: all powers, all powers of the people. So there's there's

283
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: a Japanese Marxist named Khe Saito who's been writing like

284
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff recently, who basically like he's been

285
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: probably the biggest voice of the growth in Japan, and

286
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: his book Capital on the Antipascene is finally getting translated

287
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: into English pretty soon, and so yeah, check that out

288
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: when it comes out. His stuff is really good and

289
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: he like basically has revived both Marxism and d growth

290
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: in Japan after Marxism is kind of like enclosure after

291
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: a bunch of weird fairy Wait we we don't need

292
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: to get into the story of the claps of the

293
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 1: Japanese Left. But yeah, that that that's coming. I'll check

294
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: that out. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to that book

295
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: when it comes out. Yeah, me too. If you want

296
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: to check out my videos on this topic and others,

297
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: just go to YouTube dot com slash androidsm. You can

298
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: also follow me on Twitter um while Twitter still exists,

299
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: on discloss and Drew and she could potentially even support

300
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: on Patreon, feature dot com slash st true as it Peace.

301
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

302
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

303
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com, or check us out on

304
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

305
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could

306
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: Happen here updated monthly at cool Zone media dot com

307
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: slash sources, Thanks for listening.