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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Speaker 2: Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Well Academy Award winning producer Kathy Shulman has been producing
Speaker 1: and making movies for decades. Among her films, The Woman King,
Speaker 1: Five Feet Apart, Crash, The Edge of Seventeen, a fave
Speaker 1: of our producer elizabeths by the Way, Bad Moms, many
Speaker 1: many more. She's former head of production for STX Entertainment,
Speaker 1: former president of Artist Production Group, where she oversaw multiple films,
Speaker 1: including Martin Scorsese's Gangs of New York. Also former president
Speaker 1: of Mandalay Pictures. Were recently a showrunner, the showrunner and
Speaker 1: executive producer of the Showtime series The First Lady Season one.
Speaker 1: She is present in CEO of Well Entertainment. It's a
Speaker 1: film and TV production company. They focus on producing content
Speaker 1: that appeals to diverse audiences, with an emphasis on women
Speaker 1: and girls. She teaches her latest movie, Idea of You,
Speaker 1: starring Anne Hathaway, made its debut at the south By
Speaker 1: Southwest Film Festival this year, opens widely through Amazon tomorrow
Speaker 1: and the trailer on YouTube. Already eleven million fused tip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, needless to say, she understands the movie industry and
Speaker 2: content creation on so many levels. Kathy Schulman joins us
Speaker 2: now on the phone in Los Angeles, and we're just guessing, Kathy,
Speaker 2: but are you already working on your next thing?
Speaker 3: Of course I am. It takes a long time, such
Speaker 3: a long time to get it done that we always
Speaker 3: have to be like a couple of years ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 3: But it's so exciting to be on the eve of,
Speaker 3: you know, of the idea of you finally, you know,
Speaker 3: dropping out Amazon.
Speaker 2: Well, how long did this take from just idea no
Speaker 2: pun intended there to actually premiering tomorrow?
Speaker 3: You know, it took six years. I first read the
Speaker 3: book in twenty eighteen. And yeah, it's always such a
Speaker 3: long journey. And you know, I think it so important
Speaker 3: when you're picking your projects, you know, as a producer,
Speaker 3: to find those things that you're not going to get
Speaker 3: bored of, because it's quite an epic journey each time.
Speaker 1: Well, tell us a little bit about how it all
Speaker 1: came together. I mean, I'm thinking Heyes Campbell, the actors
Speaker 1: that supposed to be like a Harry Styles. I love
Speaker 1: the Mad December relationship and the flip on that with
Speaker 1: the woman being older, Like, there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: moving pieces to this that make it fun and and
Speaker 1: Hathaway how that all came together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Well, you know, Gabrielle Union, the actress, actually
Speaker 3: handed me the book, which had become you know a
Speaker 3: bit of an internet sensation, you know, during the pandemic.
Speaker 3: And you know, it's very romantic and very sexy, and
Speaker 3: I think that people were probably needing quite a lot
Speaker 3: of that during the pandemic or something. And I read
Speaker 3: and I was taken by it, particularly because I had
Speaker 3: been looking to do a romantic comedy that had a
Speaker 3: new sort of angle and new kind of twist. In
Speaker 3: this particular story, the character name is Celene Marshaun was
Speaker 3: not deciding between two men, which is the norm she
Speaker 3: was deciding about. She was basically deciding between different versions
Speaker 3: of happiness. And I was sort of taken by the
Speaker 3: notion that, you know, either way would have been okay.
Speaker 3: You know, on the one hand, she had been through
Speaker 3: a family, you know, she'd she'd had a husband, she
Speaker 3: had a child, She's successful in her career, and she's
Speaker 3: ready to go, you know, self actualize in a yurt,
Speaker 3: which sounded okay to me. And then the other version
Speaker 3: is she can fall in love with a twenty four
Speaker 3: year old rock store, which also sounded kind of really fun.
Speaker 3: And I just liked the idea that it would be
Speaker 3: her own agency and that she could decide what happiness
Speaker 3: would look like for her. And I developed the script
Speaker 3: in house at my company well, and when we had
Speaker 3: a screenplay that was you know, ready to be seen,
Speaker 3: I sent it to Anne and got really lucky that
Speaker 3: the thing that never happens happened, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: my first idea, my hope was you know, that she
Speaker 3: would do it, and she said yes, and you know
Speaker 3: she would. I was really excited to do a movie.
Speaker 3: I knew this that she had told me that she
Speaker 3: wanted to do a movie in her fortieth year that
Speaker 3: could celebrate loud and you know, loudly, that she was
Speaker 3: forty and that she was still able to light up
Speaker 3: a room, which I think we all like to feel,
Speaker 3: you know. So then then Annie got involved, and from Annie,
Speaker 3: we sold it to Amazon and they became you know,
Speaker 3: our champions and our financiers. And once we were at Amazon,
Speaker 3: we you know, brought the project to Michael Showalter, who
Speaker 3: is a terrifically talented director, and I guess the rest
Speaker 3: is history.
Speaker 1: So cool, And of course you're talking about Anne Hathaway.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you do do a lot of
Speaker 1: rom coms. Is it because you like them? You see
Speaker 1: a gap in the market?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I like this thing. I think I've been calling a
Speaker 3: rom com drama to be honest, nice, I'd like this
Speaker 3: sort of mixture of romance, comedy and drama that sort
Speaker 3: of reminds me of the reality of life, you know,
Speaker 3: And and I just like to try to take it
Speaker 3: from an angle that isn't obvious, whether it's a younger
Speaker 3: woman or an outsider or you know, in this case,
Speaker 3: you know, women trying to figure out what happiness means.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I really like it. It's been really hard
Speaker 3: to get these kinds of movies made in the marketplace.
Speaker 3: There's sort of been this lack of them, you know,
Speaker 3: for a number of years. And I'm I think they
Speaker 3: may be coming back with a vengeance. We're seeing that
Speaker 3: pattern in the marketplace. Now.
Speaker 2: Hey, speaking of the marketplace, I mean a lot has
Speaker 2: changed when it comes to distribution. How how would you
Speaker 2: know twenty years ago you react to selling a movie
Speaker 2: to Amazon. Just even thinking about.
Speaker 3: That, Oh my god, it would have been absolute sacrilege.
Speaker 3: Like it's like I couldn't even believe. Like, you know,
Speaker 3: twenty years ago, there was big, you know, demarcations between
Speaker 3: film and television. You know, there's a big demarcation between
Speaker 3: movies that went theatrical versus straight to video. You know,
Speaker 3: the idea that something would just stream and that people
Speaker 3: would watch it on their phones and on small screens
Speaker 3: complete would have been completely you know, antathetical to what
Speaker 3: we do as filmmakers. So yeah, there's been a huge
Speaker 3: amount of change, you know, some sort of better and
Speaker 3: probably some.
Speaker 2: Who have you accepted it that people might not watch
Speaker 2: this on the biggest screen in their house.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I've accepted this. I wish I could
Speaker 3: say I would. I think I would say that. I
Speaker 3: don't think you that we as filmmakers will ever really
Speaker 3: kind of get over the joy of, you know, having
Speaker 3: our content seen in quiet, in a group experience on
Speaker 3: a big screen in a dark room, and it still
Speaker 3: remains most of our preference and certainly as mine, I'm
Speaker 3: really enjoying this particular journey with Amazon because they're marketing
Speaker 3: the movie in a way broader way and outside their own,
Speaker 3: you know, beyond their own sort of channels, their own
Speaker 3: digital channels. And this may be the wave of the
Speaker 3: future that allows us to feel the sort of sense
Speaker 3: that are happening is happening when versus just what I've
Speaker 3: experienced in the past with other you know, digital distribution
Speaker 3: situations where I'm like, oh, did the movie come out today?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know, you know, that's really terrifying after all
Speaker 3: these years of work. But you know, we're still adjusting
Speaker 3: to this. But I don't think it's going back. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think this is this is the way we're you're
Speaker 3: going to see most of our content now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's different. Well, you know, we were thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, in our setup to you, or thinking about
Speaker 1: our conversation today and our planning meeting this morning. It's
Speaker 1: you know, there are lots of avenues streaming right, which
Speaker 1: has been great for people who create movies and films
Speaker 1: and all kinds of content. There's lots of financial interest,
Speaker 1: there are strikes, there's generative AI like we're still trying
Speaker 1: to figure out kind of what's next. Is it still fun?
Speaker 1: For you, like life on a set and putting something together.
Speaker 1: Is it still fun?
Speaker 3: You know, it really is. The part you just mentioned
Speaker 3: is always fun, which is actually made the content. The
Speaker 3: business is rather harrowing at the moment, so you know,
Speaker 3: there's these long periods where you're sort of trying to
Speaker 3: get the project you know, accepted, trying to get it sold,
Speaker 3: getting somebody to be its champion, you know, being noisier
Speaker 3: than the next you know, eight thousand people with the
Speaker 3: script under their arm, you know, fitting into narrowed slots,
Speaker 3: with conglomeratized companies that are pulling back, not forward on content.
Speaker 3: That whole part is exhausting and particularly tricky, I think
Speaker 3: for producers because you know, it's a very entrepreneurial kind
Speaker 3: of a game and we used to experience long periods
Speaker 3: of lows for momentary periods of highs that were accompanied
Speaker 3: by back end participation and you know, sharing in success,
Speaker 3: and that doesn't exist anymore. So the business aspects of
Speaker 3: it are not particularly good. I think at the moment.
Speaker 3: They're bound to get better when too much content will
Speaker 3: make you know, studios and streamers turned back to the
Speaker 3: thing itself. But the creative process is like always an
Speaker 3: utter joy and like kind of what I live for
Speaker 3: and I guess why I just keep doing this crazy
Speaker 3: thing like banging my head against the wall.
Speaker 2: And we're speaking right now with the Academy Award winning
Speaker 2: producer Kathy Schulman. She's president's CEO of Well Entertainment. It's
Speaker 2: a film and TV production company with a focus to
Speaker 2: produce content that appeals to diverse audiences. Her latest movie,
Speaker 2: Idea of You, stars Anne Hathaway and it made its
Speaker 2: debut at south By Southwest and it opens wide through
Speaker 2: Amazon tomorrow.
Speaker 1: You know, Kathy, one of the things, as you say,
Speaker 1: I feel like that the way with us we walk
Speaker 1: in the studio, and that's the fun part. It's the
Speaker 1: all the other stuff leading up to it that can
Speaker 1: be frustrating and tough. Having said that, you know, you
Speaker 1: produced recently The Woman King Viola Davis Sony TriStar grossed
Speaker 1: over one hundred million globally. I hope I have the
Speaker 1: right amount. The director on the movie talked about having
Speaker 1: a hard time get our movies funded. She's a proven director.
Speaker 1: You are a proven entity in this industry. You've got
Speaker 1: a seat at the table. You're in the room where
Speaker 1: it happens. Why is it still so hard though it
Speaker 1: seems like for women to get funding for their projects
Speaker 1: in Hollywood?
Speaker 3: You know, that's such a good question. And you know,
Speaker 3: having been involved in a lot of research around this,
Speaker 3: you know, through the more film traffic work that I do,
Speaker 3: you know, with women in film and with reframe and
Speaker 3: you know, with Stacy Smith and Annenberg and all this.
Speaker 3: You know, we just continue to see these trends where,
Speaker 3: you know, those people who control purse strings or control
Speaker 3: finances are less likely to put money in the hands
Speaker 3: of women. You know, it seems that you know, research
Speaker 3: has has has revealed this the why it just doesn't
Speaker 3: make any sense. Things along the lines of, you know,
Speaker 3: women are too busy multitasking to take care of the money. Look,
Speaker 3: that's insane. I mean, think about it. If men were
Speaker 3: so good at you know, multitasking, then all their movies
Speaker 3: would be success. You know, do that makes no sense?
Speaker 3: Or you know women, you know women women, you know, uh,
Speaker 3: aren't as good with money. Well, we've been managing money
Speaker 3: and you know, even in the household since the dawn
Speaker 3: of time. Or or you know, women don't know what
Speaker 3: men want. Well, that's ridiculous because the majority marketplace is
Speaker 3: women and women you know, by the majority of film,
Speaker 3: television and streaming, and frankly, women by them buy more
Speaker 3: than men of everything, including cars and technology and everything else.
Speaker 3: In fact, we shop a lot in case anyone hasn't noticed. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I think that the reasons that that that
Speaker 3: that end up being researched are really kind of mythic
Speaker 3: and falls and that we're really dealing with bias. Well
Speaker 3: still has to be you know removed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Well, and you referenced you know, you've
Speaker 1: been in the industry. You've also looked at the industry
Speaker 1: in an advocacy role, as you mentioned your president of
Speaker 1: Women in Film for more than a decade. Just got
Speaker 1: about a minute left here. You know, what are the
Speaker 1: things that you feel like you've done or helped to
Speaker 1: get done to help reduce that disparity between men and
Speaker 1: women in this in this industry? What moves the needle?
Speaker 3: You know, I think that you know, we've been really
Speaker 3: successful in starting to create a pipeline. You know, that's
Speaker 3: important that you know that for these you know, uh,
Speaker 3: decision making jobs or gatekeeper jobs, writer, director, producer, cinematographer, editor, executive,
Speaker 3: you know, pipeline is crucial, and I do think we've
Speaker 3: done that. There's been a huge education campaign and we
Speaker 3: have made progress and we have moved the numbers. Where
Speaker 3: we still have a lot of work to do, you know,
Speaker 3: is probably from the top down. We've made some progress
Speaker 3: in bringing more women around decision making tables, which definitely
Speaker 3: affects GOT content is chosen, right, But yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: there's still a way to go.
Speaker 1: All right, So appreciate it so much. Fun Kathy Schulman,
Speaker 1: President CEO, well entertained meant Academy Award winning producer Idea
Speaker 1: of View opening wide through Amazon on May second. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much,