1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: We can look a journalist in the eyes and tell 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: them we're going to give them all the resources they 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: need to do the best work of their career. 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: In the same way that the early folks on that 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: Bay Area staff said no. Originally most of the investors 6 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 2: that ultimately invested in the Athletic said no, and then 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: we had to circle back persistence in the face of rejection. 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 2: I mean without that, you know, we would have stopped 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: five years ago. 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 3: Here has been an incredibly challenging watch for. 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 4: Common and is all across the country. 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 5: You have a projected there. 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 4: About Welcome back to episode two of Dell Technology's Small 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 4: Business pod Fronts series. I am Jade Hoy, executive producer 15 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 4: of the Athletic podcast network. As you know, these have 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 4: been trying times for small business owners across the world, 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 4: and for the second year in a row, Dell Technologies 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 4: has assembled the best podcasters to tell their stories and 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 4: starting up, scalability and surviving. In this episode, we will 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: continue our conversation with the founders of The Athletic, Adam 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 4: Hansman and Alex Mather, as they detail the athletics rapid 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 4: growth over the last five years, how and why they 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 4: decided on Chicago and Toronto and recruiting the best talent. 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 4: We will also be joined by General Manager of Content, 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 4: Strategy and Analytics, Akiel Joe Nambiar, who was an integral 26 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 4: part of the early years and one of the brains 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 4: behind the athletics early success. Let's start here. 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 6: Why Chicago, by the way, Why Toronto? Everyone who say 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 6: go to New York or LA Obviously there's competition, but 30 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 6: why those by Chicago and Toronto? 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: I think we looked at Philly and that didn't pan out. 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: So we said, well, you know, where do we think 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: there's enough teams that like can get some signal and 34 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: test this idea, hopefully pick a market where the teams 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: were having some success or we thought could have some success. 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: So it was there was a bit of it. It 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: wasn't some like magic formula to say that spit out Chicago. 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: We sort of identified it. We reached out to a 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: couple of people. The first editorial hire that we made, 40 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: John Greenberg, reached out, had a couple of interesting conversations. 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: Alex and I flew to Chicago and got to meet 42 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: a couple of people, and we sort of pulled the trigger. 43 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 7: And it is another edition of hoops adjacent on the 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 7: Aththetic NBA show. 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, what was really fascinating in the early years was 46 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: just how random. You know, Adam mentioned someone answering a 47 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: LinkedIn message. You know, a lot of the market launches 48 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: were serendipitous. And the fact that we got some people 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: to answer our emails. Maybe they were open to a 50 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: new opportunity, maybe they had just been let go and 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: we just launched, and we would just take anyone. We 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: were absolutely at that moment we were like, if you 53 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: want to cover your team, we're here for you. We'll 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: get you an editor, We'll get you all the resources 55 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: you need, we'll get you all the data salary benefits. 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: It was some wild years of one summer we hired 57 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: two hundred plus people. 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: Our second market in one of our biggest, like early markets, 59 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: was Toronto and then the rest of Canada. All those 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: early operational challenges. We were moving at such a such 61 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: an insane pace, and you know, the thing that sticks 62 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: out to me as I reflect on it was just 63 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: when you are a founder, pretty much your number one 64 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: job is to sell. Whether you're selling to an employee, 65 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: whether it's you know, an engineer, designer, a journalist, an investor. 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: You basically spend your entire day. You wake up and 67 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: you're at sort of your peak amount of, like, you know, 68 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: ability to sell. 69 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 5: I'm Akil Nambiar. I am the GM of Content Strategy 70 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 5: and Analytics and I started in January of twenty eighteen. 71 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 5: I think the thing that got everyone hooked on it 72 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 5: was the vision of what they could do here. You know, 73 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 5: you're no longer thinking about making money via ads. It's 74 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 5: a subscription business and at the end of the day, 75 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 5: subscriptions are all about keeping your subscribers happy and providing 76 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 5: them with the best experience. And that marries perfectly with 77 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 5: what our journalists and writers love to do. They want 78 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 5: to tell the best stories. That's what our whole newsroom 79 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 5: wakes up to do. And I think once you start 80 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 5: to show what that looks like, it makes things a 81 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 5: lot easier. And I give a lot of credit to 82 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 5: our earliest writers, you know, folks like you know Scott 83 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 5: Powers and John Greenberg and Myrtle and Customs, because they 84 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 5: showed that this thing could work. And when you had 85 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 5: a writer that was like, is this thing for real? 86 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 5: It sounds too good to be true, you can just 87 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 5: pass them over to them. And they're more than happy 88 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 5: to say, here's the experience I had, you can kind 89 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 5: of have this dream too. 90 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: It's the most rewarding part of this entire story for 91 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: me personally, and I'm sure it's up there for Adam, 92 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: which is we can look a journalist in the eyes 93 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: and tell them we're going to give them all the 94 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: resources they need to do the best work of their career, 95 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: and then when they do that work, it's going to 96 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: have a meaningful impact on our business, and that we're 97 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: going to continue to fuel that over the years. 98 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 8: Certainly was aware that Athletic was being very aggressive about 99 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 8: hiring people. 100 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 4: Yet still the landscape was changing the way people were 101 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 4: and still our consuming media has drastically changed. More than ever. 102 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 4: Content from the sports world was being served in quick purse, 103 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 4: shorter and shorter, faster, faster. 104 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 5: Sam Sharana one of the bed NBA insider in the country. 105 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 7: I'm not surprised that he ended up staying in Milwaukee. 106 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 7: Congratulations to our next guest calling in right now from 107 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 7: the Athletics Bay Area columnist Marcus Thompson. 108 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 2: How are you, Marcus? 109 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 9: What's up? 110 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 6: I'm a little excited today. 111 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 7: So Ethan Strauss writes and covers the NBA for the Athletic. 112 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 7: He writes long columns, digsbury deep, and he always gives 113 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 7: you a story or an anecdote or a nugget. Nugget 114 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 7: that people in his sport miss they have a blind spot. 115 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 7: He finds that kind of stuff and he makes me think. 116 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 7: I like writers that make me think. 117 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: What was it that was integral to the success that 118 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 4: the Athletic that pushed it further throughto relevance. 119 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: Breaking news was surprised, interesting to the overall business, was 120 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: really impactful to our brand, not something that we would 121 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: have guessed early on. We thought of breaking news as 122 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: sort of a commodity. A lot of the ways that 123 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: sports fans interact with a brand is learning new information, 124 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: and so when we can uncover new things, that was 125 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: a fascinating component. 126 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 5: A lot of what we think about here is what 127 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 5: does it mean to be a sports media subscription service? 128 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 5: And I think one of the things we've realized and 129 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 5: something that we're thinking through is that articles are a 130 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 5: great medium for people to consume all the wonderful reporting 131 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 5: and work that's happening across our newsroom. But there's a 132 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 5: lot of other stuff that we could do as well, 133 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 5: like if you're a YouTube person, if you're an audio person, 134 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 5: long form articles like shorter snippets. However you consume sports, 135 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 5: there should be an athletic version for that. And how 136 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 5: do we get that to happen? What are all the 137 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 5: different ways that people want to consume sports and how 138 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 5: do we provide that experience to them so that regardless 139 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 5: like what you want, you can get it within the athletic. 140 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: You know, for us, it came naturally in a subscription model, 141 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: which is your customer is a reader that is a 142 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: sports fan, and we could relate to that, and that 143 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: was you know, that was really powerful. But customer customer centricity. 144 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: The trick of it is customers oftentimes don't know what 145 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: they want. And so if we would have told a 146 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: bunch of Chicago sports fans in twenty fifteen, hey, there's 147 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: going to be this thing. It's going to be called 148 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: the Athletics, going to be the best digital journalism product 149 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: that you've ever experienced. You just have to give us 150 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: sixty dollars, most people would have said they would have 151 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: had the same reaction that an investor would. Just going 152 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: out and proving it to our customers every single day, 153 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: listening to them in the form of just like talking 154 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: to them, or you know, being data driven in terms 155 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: of where your customers are at. I think that's just everything. 156 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: I think for just entrepreneurs, whether it's a tech company 157 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: or a small business being distracted by press or investment rounds, 158 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: even your own you're doing a podcast like like I 159 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: am here. The thing at the end of the day 160 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: that matters is serving serving your customers and hiring exceptionally 161 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: exceptionally well. Problems never go away. Hiring poorly, you know, 162 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: it never sort of like works itself out. You can 163 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: compound success, or you can compound the opposite of that, 164 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: which is just debt. 165 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: More it's okay with him as long as it's a 166 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: good story that gains traction because there is no deadline. 167 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 3: Deadline is just kind of like a word that gets 168 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: thrown around in the difference between print and online. But 169 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: it's like it made my work better and my life 170 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: work better, and my life is a lot easier. 171 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 6: To be honest from an outside observer, as someone who 172 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 6: had been a fan of the athletic before, I sort 173 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 6: are working for you all is the barrier felt like 174 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 6: a sort of a growth like you hired the best, 175 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 6: you have the best talent. It's seemingly in the Bay 176 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 6: Arier almost immediately. Can you kind of take us through 177 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 6: the addition decision, the Bay Area, the people you're trying 178 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 6: to grab, the statement you were trying to make, and 179 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 6: maybe why specifically the Bay Area. 180 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: I think what happened was we talked over over a 181 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: year before the folks joined. It took us a year 182 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: of recruiting, and there was an interesting aspect to that, 183 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: which is, you know, living in the Bay Area, we 184 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: were able to consume the media personally and here from 185 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: people on the ground on a daily basis of who 186 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: are the must haves, who are the folks that you 187 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: read or listen to every single day, and that those 188 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: opinions formed over many years, and you know, our goals 189 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: to hire those folks early on were spurned by them. 190 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: We were turned out one by one. 191 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 9: I wasn't actually sure it was. It was much more 192 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 9: idea when I joined Marcus Thompson, senior collegist, the athletic 193 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 9: lacking due to the athletic how about that, I know 194 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 9: the app looked pretty like. I like the way I looked. 195 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 9: I like the presentation of it. Especially color for a 196 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 9: newspaper where I hated the website. It was so clunky 197 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 9: and all these ads were all over the place. But 198 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 9: it just felt more like an idea or concept or 199 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 9: a dream than actually something real. I knew the newspaper 200 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 9: thing was coming to an end. We were having all 201 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 9: kinds of meanings about, you know, how dire it was 202 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 9: and how we needed to make these moves, et cetera. 203 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 9: So we knew something was coming. I just wasn't sure 204 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 9: that this was it. I approached it with the utmost skepticism. 205 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: As sort of the fall of the following year, everyone 206 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: just like the stars aligned, where everyone's like, let's just 207 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: jump together. And it was really a big moment for 208 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: us in which probably the first time where we were 209 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: able to get enough people at once to have a 210 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: really big. 211 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: Launch, definitely, and that's where we started to kind of 212 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: feel the you know, the sum of the parts was 213 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: greater than the individual, right. So historically we'd hire a 214 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: lot of people kind of one by one, maybe add 215 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: a few people in the market, and then come back 216 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 2: later and fill it up. And definitely that the launch 217 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: of the Bay Area having Tim Marcus Anthony Bags like 218 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: sort of a you know, rapid succession or sort of 219 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: really right there at the beginning told us that having 220 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: a bundle, and so for some fans it is like, 221 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: just give me the best Bay Area coverage. And for others, 222 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: you know, they're you know, they're into college sports, or 223 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: they've adopted a team in the Premier League that they 224 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: want to support, and you know, as we've kind of 225 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: gone market by market getting that footprint going, eventually you 226 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: look back and you're like, Wow, we've created a really 227 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: powerful bundle, and I think that's where we've really hit 228 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: the accelerator. 229 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 8: Anthony Slater, Warriors writer at the Athletic Bay Area. I 230 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 8: knew we had to have some like meaty stories right away. 231 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 8: I remember Marcus. I believe our first story. Marcus was 232 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 8: like out at a golf tournament with Steph Curry and 233 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 8: I believe got an exclusive with him, which was big. 234 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 8: And then Kevin Durant had just returned from India. I 235 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 8: had been trying to get him on the phone. He 236 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 8: had taken a pay cut, which was surprising at the time. 237 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 8: It was between his first and second Warrior seasons, and 238 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 8: the pay cut had allowed the Warriors to keep Andre 239 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 8: Woodall and Sean Livingston. It seemed like he I remember, 240 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 8: it seemed like he wasn't gonna do the interview. I've 241 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 8: been trying to get it for a week, and then 242 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 8: suddenly one morning I just got a call and he 243 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 8: was not only interested in doing the interview, but wanted 244 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 8: to ask me about the Athletic before we even did 245 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 8: the interview, he was like curious about like, okay, so 246 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 8: this story is like going behind a pay wall, blah 247 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 8: blah blah. And then he gave me like some really 248 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 8: good quotes about like why he took a pay cut. 249 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 8: I remember subs, you know, were coming through that being 250 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 8: like okay, yeah, you started to kind of feel a rhythm, 251 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 8: and the idea that we had been talking about for 252 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 8: months was like being executed like numerically in front of me. 253 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 8: And I thought it was cool. 254 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: And I will say, like back to my earlier coming on, 255 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: like just always selling and never like burning bridges, you know, 256 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: in the same way that the early folks on that 257 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: Bay Area staff said no. Originally, most of the investors 258 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: that ultimately invested in the Athletic said no, and then 259 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: we had to circle back and probably with one or 260 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: two exceptions, you know, that's just persistence in the face 261 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: of rejection. I mean, without that, you know, we would 262 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: have stopped five years ago. 263 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 5: I think there's always some challenge anytime you're doing something ambitious. 264 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 5: You know, there are a few writer pitches I did 265 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 5: where the writer then ends up telling me why this 266 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 5: thing won't work. Personally, I get energized by that because 267 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 5: I think if everyone tells you an idea is good, 268 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 5: it's probably not a very good idea. You need a 269 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 5: bunch of people to say it's stupid for it to 270 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 5: be something that's ambitious. So, you know, whenever you're at 271 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 5: a startup, whenever you're doing something that's a bit new, 272 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 5: you know, the default is people kind of doubting you 273 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 5: and thinking that this thing isn't going to work. And 274 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 5: the easiest thing in the world is to go on 275 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 5: Twitter and say, here's thirty reasons why this thing is 276 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 5: going to fail if you get the right people together 277 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 5: and there's enough focus and grit. I know it sounds 278 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 5: very simplistic, but I'm so proud of the way we've 279 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 5: overcome all of these challenges that come all of these. 280 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. 281 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 6: I'm Robert Bays we're back to normal, which is yeah, 282 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 6: I know, that's what's kind of funny. 283 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 2: It's like this is the normal setting. It was so funny, 284 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 2: even like when. 285 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 6: We were sitting there the lives. 286 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: You have to be pretty irrational to believe it it's 287 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: going to work, because no one's going to believe in you, 288 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: and if you're counting on other people to give you validation, 289 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: they're not going to give it to you, no matter 290 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: how much they love you or not. So you kind 291 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: of have to really really believe. And I operate with 292 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: a ton of optimism and it's my version of like 293 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: seeing the future being the future. You really have to 294 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: be intentional with your culture. And that doesn't mean, you know, assimilation. 295 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: It just means, you know, culture helps you hire good people, right, 296 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: people that align with the values that you set forward, 297 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: and be really intentional with the type of values that 298 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: you set forward. You know, in terms of the athletic 299 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: it's like you know, being a pioneer or moving forward fearlessly, 300 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: Like we don't ask for permission to do things here, 301 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: and like that's an important aspect to our culture. If 302 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: you want to do something, I don't want to hear 303 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: about it, just go do it right. 304 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 9: And if you. 305 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: Don't have a company full of the people that you 306 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: want acting the way that you think is in the 307 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: best interest of the company, It's pretty crazy how quickly 308 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: it can go off the round, off the round, round 309 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: off the route. 310 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: Off the round. 311 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 4: This episode is just one of many podcasts included in 312 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 4: the Small Business pod Ference presented by Dell Technologies, a 313 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 4: podcast conference to get inspiration on topics like fundraising, building 314 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 4: teams are managing a business in our current environment from 315 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 4: top podcasts like Mandy Woodriff and Tiffany Eleish Brown Ambition, 316 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 4: gret and Link Ear Biscuits, and Gretchen from Happier with 317 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 4: Gretchen Ruben's Visit Dell Technologies, Hot Freds dot Comnologies. I'm 318 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:04,359 Speaker 4: Jade Hoy for the Athletic Podcast Network.