WEBVTT - Jenna Fischer Rerun 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.560 I made a grandiose announcement to my management and agents 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.039 that I would be quitting acting. My acting coach yelled 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.639 at me and said, don't be stupid. You're doing great. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.280 This is what an actor's life is. It's a series 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:20.040 of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So this is 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.479 being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, Okay, 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.720 I'll do one more year, and that was the year 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.320 that I got the audition for Pam on the Office. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:44.440 This is Jenna Fisher. I played Pam Beasley. Hi, everybody, 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.559 welcome back. Here we are. We're back baby the Office 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:53.440 Deep Dive. I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today you will 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:59.080 be hearing my conversation with Jenna Fisher. Let me tell 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.920 you something. Jenna and I bonded during the run of 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:06.720 the show. We were both nerds for television, and we 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:12.000 would have long conversations about television and what we were 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.720 doing in television. In a way, those conversations are what 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:20.039 led me to want to do this podcast. Conversations that 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.320 I had over the years with Jenna and recently since 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:28.480 I started this podcast. And she obviously is the grand Puma. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.800 I don't think that's the right phrase of podcast. Her 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.959 and Angela obviously a host and produced Office Ladies. Jenna 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.680 and I, over the last couple of years have been 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:44.800 bonding once again over the office, what the office means 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.040 today in the cultural zeitgeist, and she and I have 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.640 had lengthy conversations about that very subject. And today you're 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.120 going to get to be a fly on the wall. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.440 I can't wait for you to hear it. She is 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:03.880 one of the most insight full, incisive, smart uh women 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.800 that I know, and I'm so excited to talk about 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.080 the thing that we both love, the office. So here 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:19.880 she is, Jenni Fisher, Bubble and squeak, I love it. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:27.440 Bubble and squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie. Every moon lived 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:42.280 over from the nubb before. Oh how are you? What 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:48.680 is this? I don't know? How are you you? Oh 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.760 my gosh, it's happening. You can see I got all 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.960 dressed up. Please in my in my hat and puffy coat. 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.359 I are we beginning? Have we begun? I mean you're ready? Looks? 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.960 Officially have papers and a don't computer? In a computer? 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.520 Do you use a you don't use a computer? During 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.000 my podcast, I use papers and angel uses notes. Note cards. See. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.120 I can scroll here, I can scroll through things, and 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.080 I can skip on interesting things. But you're staring right 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.800 in my eyes while you do it, and jess or yeah, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.359 so I don't have to do this. Yeah, that's so 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.160 loud and messy, and I was very distracted by that. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.639 It's slightly weird to be stared out while someone's hand 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.200 is like scrolling a car. You won't see it, well, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.560 I won't. I won't. I'm not going to scroll through 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:40.440 fifteen pages. Wow, fifteen pages. Listen, there's a lot here. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.320 This is a big day. It's a really big day. Okay. Yeah, 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.080 So two thousand and three, yep, what were you doing 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:53.320 before the office? I had been at this point finally 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.400 making a living as an actor for one year. I'd 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.160 been in Los Angeles over seven years, but I was 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.920 finally all of my living from just acting. I had 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.480 done a pilot. You get paid a lot to do 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.760 a pilot, so that was a big thing. But the 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.680 pilot wasn't picked up. So I made a grandiose announcement 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.160 to my management and agents that I would be quitting acting. 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.760 I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't take the rejection. 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.080 I just was putting my heart out there, and I 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.040 just thought, I'm going to become a vet technician. I 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.760 was very sure this is true, this is true. I 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.360 don't remember this. I looked into it. It's a two 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.920 year program. It's very full time. And my manager, Naomi Odenkirk, 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.720 she said to me, Jenna, will you give us one 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.240 more year? I mean, you're so close, you really are. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.840 You don't understand. This is what it is. My acting 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.640 coach yelled at me and said, don't be stupid. You're 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.360 doing great. This is what an actor's life is. It's 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.520 a series of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.280 this is being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, okay, 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.520 I'll do one more year. And that was the year 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.400 that I got the audition for Pam on the Office. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.520 By the way, I was also starting down my vet 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:17.919 tech you were going. I was working with an animal 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.520 rescue group and I was taking care of cats in 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.360 my own home. I was learning how to do things 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.960 like fluids and all kinds of medical things. I did 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.640 not know this. Yeah, I was trapped neutering and releasing 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.279 cats in the wild. Oh my word. Then Alison Jones 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.839 called and asked me to audition for the Office. Now, 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.359 I had been auditioning for Allison Jones for five years. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.159 So the first thing I went on a general meeting 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.200 with Alison and it was a great meeting. And Allison 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.040 called me in to audition for a one line role 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.080 on Freaks and Geeks. Right, I didn't get it. Then 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.960 Allison called me to audition for Undeclared, which was a 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.200 Jet Apatow show, for one line, and I got it, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.560 and that one line led to a second episode where 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.240 I had two lines. So this was my first recurring role. Yes, 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.680 this is okay, but this is all you know a 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.839 while ago, right, I think I also threw Allison got. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.440 My very first speaking role on television was for Spin 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.000 City the Charlie Sheen Years. Okay, So those were some 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.919 a few of my ways that Allison had been in 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.960 my life and she was great. She also called me 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.240 in for like a Steven Spielberg miniseries that I bombed. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.440 It went nowhere. I was horrible. She said, maybe drama's 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.159 not your thing, and then yeah, she said, you know 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.839 it's You're gonna be fine. Don't worry. I'm still going 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.640 to call you in for other things, but maybe drama's 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.919 not your thing, so very quickly. My Alison Jones story 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.160 was I moved to LA right before The Office started, 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.560 and I knew the British version of the Office very well, 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.440 and I knew they were doing an American version. I 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.640 was like, this is the show that I must be on. 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.920 And so I went to my agent at the time 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.600 and I said, Okay, they're looking for people who are 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.120 not known, and they said, this is a direct quote. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:12.200 They said, they're looking for unknown people, but not like you, unknown, 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.840 not like totally. But my manager he kept calling and 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.360 calling and calling, and I went and I met with Phillis, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.160 then I met with Alison, and then I ended up 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.880 doing that. Well, so here's the thing that little caveat 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.600 in the casting call that said unknown actors only. Yeah, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.040 that was why this was my big break, right, And 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.320 this was also why I had been so frustrated and 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.600 wanted to give up, because I would go through these 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.600 long audition processes for television shows and I would get 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.080 as far as the on camera test part, and then 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.120 they would give it to Alison Hannagan. Alison Hannagan got 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.720 like three parts that I was four. I could not 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.560 break through Alison Hannagan. But I was this unknown actor 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.280 and I had absolutely nothing to offer a bill board 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.080 on Sunset Boulevard. I had, you know, no name recognition, right, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:10.320 So I couldn't get these big lead parts until the office, 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.920 when finally the thing that had been working against me 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.920 was my gift, which was that I was unknown. Right. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.160 And now, what do you remember about the day of 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.760 Did you see anybody else? There any other people that 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.400 you knew at the time or that ended up being cast, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.640 or was there anything specific about that day? Well, I've 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.680 seen those casting sheets that Allison showed us at the 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.040 end of the series, and I saw all the various 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.560 well known now well known people who came in to 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.760 read for the different parts, and none of those people 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.640 were at my casting call that I remember, but I 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:46.400 would neither. I was just very focused on my audition, Right, 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:52.120 can we play that clip? You have a clip? I 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.000 hope they get rid of me because then I might 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.559 actually get off my ass and do something, because I 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.560 don't think it's many little girls dreams to grow up 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.839 and be our receptionist. And I don't know what I'm 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.000 going to do, but whatever it is, it's got to 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.160 be a career move, not just another arbitrary job. And 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.640 Jim's advice was that it's better to be at the 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.800 bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.920 halfway up one you don't. Was that my audition? Yes, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.840 that's insane. Do you remember that? I mean, was that 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.040 was that you? Or was that was that scripted? That 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.199 was scripted? Okay? So I had a monologue that was 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.479 scripted that that talking head, right. I also did a scene. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.040 I did the scene where Michael fires Pam and she 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.839 calls him a jerk, where he fake fires her as 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.240 a joke, and then I had a just improvised interview 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.880 with Greg. Greg Daniels was there at my first audition. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.920 I went, I guess straight to producers as they call it. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.360 So Alison and Greg were there, and I remember Greg 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.880 being very ringing his hands like in a like a 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.079 fun like he couldn't believe he's going to get to 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.920 start this project and he's so excited, and and I 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:06.600 just remember the way he was looking at me. It 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.440 was very curious, kind of like, huh, she's not doing 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:15.920 much as she m interesting. That's so well, So I'm 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.319 going to start talking about myself again because it's ultimately 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.760 everything is about me. My thing was I knew that 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.520 Kevin was the part that I should have, and Alison 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.800 Jones is brilliant, but she had me reading for Stanley, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.319 and so I read Stanley as if it were Kevin. Ah, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.080 And then I left the room thinking, well, I'm not sure, 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.080 and sure enough she ran after me and said, oh, 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.680 we had this other part that we want you to 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.000 look at, and so then that's how that happened. Oh 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:53.720 that's amazing. Yeah, Um, the test process, how is that? Yeah. 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.800 So normally when you test for a show, you just 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.440 perform your scenes live in front of a conference room 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.040 full of executives. But we were told that because the 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.040 camera was such an essential part of our show and 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.199 relating to the camera was so important, that they wanted 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.760 to do an on camera series of test scenes with 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.440 the final four actors for each part. So they called 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.800 us into an actual office building for two days and 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:27.280 they mixed and matched us and they taped us doing scenes. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.240 And it was great because we were able to give 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.640 those looks to camera. We were able to react when 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.040 we noticed the camera was there when we thought it wasn't. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.079 It really was such a huge element of the show. 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.200 Greg's other argument for doing it that way was that 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.360 the show was small in its acting, and the moments 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.920 that played the biggest were small moments, and he didn't 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.760 really feel like auditioning in a conference room was going 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.600 to give the executives the right feel for what he 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.560 was going for what the show was. Yeah, totally genius. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.800 And now, what are some of the things that you 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.720 remember that were different in the way that the pilot 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:10.360 was shot from say, a normal television show. I remember 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.400 on the pilot, everyone in the cast had to be 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.160 hair and makeup ready and at their desks starting at 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.600 seven thirty am, and we would work quote unquote for 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.960 thirty minutes. And Ken would walk around with just a 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.199 camera operator and a boom and record us at our desks. 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.320 Just be roll of us at our desks, right, And 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.040 what did you think of the pilot when you saw it? 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.079 What did I think of the pilot when I saw it? 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.800 I must have watched that pilot a gazillion times. I 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.960 have a very embarrassing story about watching them. Okay, go ahead. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.040 So there was a friend of a friend who was 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.080 this big deal manager and he really wanted to see 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:01.400 the pilot, and I thought, well, I have a DVD 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.960 of the pilot. Maybe I'll take it to his office. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.880 But I was so afraid of it leaking that I 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.640 insisted that he watched it while I sit across from him. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.280 I wouldn't leave the office without the DVD. I was like, well, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:16.600 you can watch it, but you have to watch it 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.640 right now while I wait, what was I doing? I 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:25.840 was nobody. I don't know. Isn't that so weird? That amazing, 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.800 so bizarre. But he really wanted to see it because 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.240 everybody in town wanted to see the pilot. Everyone wanted 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.200 to see it. They were dying to see what this 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.440 American version of the British show was going to be. Now, Brian, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.000 do you remember coming to my house and watching the 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.120 pilot and sitting on my floor and gathering all together? Yes? 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.920 I do. Yeah. Angela was talking to me about it 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.000 recently and she was like, well, I remember you couldn't 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.480 get the sound to work on your sound system And 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.360 I was like really, and she was like yeah. And 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.360 I remember my dog got out and I had to 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.000 chase my dog down the street. That's another story, but 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.360 but that was sort of the beginning of us all 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.640 gathering together. To watch the show every week, which is 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.080 what we did. That's so I totally forgot about that. 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:14.640 So so we're in a real office space and we 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.520 are doing this fake work, b rule stuff, like all 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.560 of these elements to try to create sort of the 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.800 ultimate reality. Yeah, and to me that there's something interesting. Well, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.600 what would you say your training was as an actor? 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.120 As an actor, yeah, I have a Bachelor of Arts 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.160 in theater from a little liberal arts college in rural 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.960 Missouri called Truman State. So this job was a dream 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.120 job for me as a theater geek. To be able 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.600 to do this acting exercise where I'm at my disk 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.280 excuse me very much, but I'm acting, was like, oh, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.240 it was everything my training had prepared me for. That's yeah, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.880 see that's and so that was you and then Rain 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.840 and I knew each other a little bit from theater 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:02.320 as well. And then you've go aunt Angela and Oscar 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.080 and Steve, who are like improv yes, right, and then 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:11.400 we got bj and Craig Robinson that are stand up guys. Primarily, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.120 to me, there was something about the creation of the 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.760 ensemble that there were all of these funny people, but 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.360 they all sort of had a different perspective, and there 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.960 was something about the reality, sort of the ultra reality 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.320 of being stuck in this room and doing this work, yeah, 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.920 and always being there together that that sort of helped 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.520 meld us together in a weird way. Yeah. I think 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.240 if we had all been improv performers, it would have 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.920 been a shit show, right, Or if we were all 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.880 theater people, we would have been taking all of ourselves 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.560 too seriously. The mix was important, like the way all 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.280 of the ingredients came together. And I think you know, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.320 another thing that was really unusual was that we were 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.520 all always at work, because if you weren't in a scene, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.920 you were in the background of a scene. We would 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.040 joke sometimes we'd be like, do none of us go 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.040 to the bathroom? We never leave for lunch, Like we're 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.720 always all at our desks. By season six or seven, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.720 people were going to the bathroom a little bit more 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:18.200 from Time to Die, yes, more often that all right, Well, 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:23.240 Theodore Nerd, how is Pam different from Jenna? Well, it 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.240 would not take me three years to tell Jim that 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.480 I had feelings for him. I mean I would have 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.840 dumped Roy much quicker. I would have been like, who's 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.640 this guy? Because not just that. I mean, when we 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.640 meet Pam and Jim, they've already been working together for 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.520 a couple of years, and then it's still three more 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.880 years after that before they figure some stuff out. I mean, 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:51.560 I'm much more ambitious, much more of an entrepreneurial spirit 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:57.200 than Pam. However, the way that we are very similar 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:02.360 is that it took me a long time like Pam 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.320 to figure out how to speak up for myself. Like Pam, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.879 I spent many years sitting at a reception desk, wishing 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.720 that I was doing something else. I literally sat at 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.440 reception desks and daydreamed about the day that I might 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.040 be an actor. And Pam sits at that desk and 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.600 she daydreams about being artistically expressed. And so I could 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.879 really relate to that, that feeling of I want something 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.399 more than what I'm doing, but I don't know how 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.959 to get it exactly. But I will say that as Jenna, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.080 I was taking much more actions in my life to 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.440 get out of my situation than I think Pam did. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.280 It took Pam a lot longer, but she had a 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.080 lot more forces against her than I did. You know, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.880 I'm not sure Pam's mom was saying things to her, 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.520 or her parents were saying things to her like, honey, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.959 you can do anything you want to do. If you 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.240 want to be an artist, you go be an artist. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.560 I mean, that was the messaging that I was getting 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.280 from my parents. You gotta go for it. Do what 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.440 you love in life. Even if you aren't successful, you'll 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.480 be glad you did it. I mean, I had those 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.480 kind of parents. They didn't support me financially as an actor, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.000 but they supported my spirit and they were always there 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.880 for that pep talk. And I mean, I don't even 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.639 know if I can explain how valuable that was. And 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.719 it was clear to me that Pam didn't have some 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.480 of those tools in her toolbox. Do you think that 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.119 Greg and the writing staff, because in a way they 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:37.080 were masterful about this, right about finding things, finding things 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.840 that were true to you the actor, and incorporating them 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.879 into the story. Do you think that Pam's want and 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.080 desire to be an artist and to be seen in 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.720 that way? Do you think that there's anything that was 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:54.119 taken from you? I'm not sure because if I remember correctly, 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.320 I feel like the character on the British Show had 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.199 some minor desire to be an artist doesn't. Doesn't the 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.480 Tim character give Don some drawing pencils at some point? 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.200 Or am I making that up? And I don't remember. 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.920 I don't know, But I do know that Greg used 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.960 to ask me questions about my thoughts, that that was 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:21.120 so unusual, the fact that several of our writers were 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.760 also actors, so they were down with us, they were 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.000 observing us all the time. I mean, you, Angela and 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.240 Oscar single handedly created that insane dynamic between the three 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.680 of you through I believe improvisation when you were bored 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.720 in the background, and so then you've got Mindy, BJ 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.160 and Paul watching you guys, and then taking that back 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.800 up to the writer's room and flushing it out totally. 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.439 It was genius that Greg did it that way. But 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.560 then more than that, Greg truly believed that no one 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.359 knew our characters more than we did, and he would 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.560 ask us questions all the time. He cared about our opinions. 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.760 He wanted to know all the time, what do you 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.480 think Pam would think of this situation? He was always 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.200 very curious. He also knew that I worked in offices 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.560 and that I had worked as a receptionist, and he 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.280 used to ask me questions, what's the craziest thing one 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.280 of your boss has ever made you do? And I 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.440 can't remember if I told this story to him before 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.400 or after, But there's that episode where Michael is refusing 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:28.520 to sign all of his documents until the end of 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.920 the day. He just keeps putting it off and putting 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.800 it off and putting it off. And I told Greg 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.960 I had this boss once that every month, at the 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:37.480 end of the month, he had to turn in this 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.199 boiler plate report and he would put it off and 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:41.920 put it off. And one time he put it off 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.160 so long I had to drive to lax because that 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.360 was the last FedEx pickup. And I was so pissed. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.080 And Greg was like he loved those stories. He loved 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.160 whenever we told him stories like that, and they would 0:20:55.200 --> 0:21:18.680 get used. Okay, so we shoot the pilot, we eventually air. 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:24.880 It's striking to me that you started like December ish 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.119 right of like two thousand and three into January. We 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.920 shot the pilot in February of two thousand and four. Yeah, 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.920 and it's thirteen months before anything gets on the air. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.480 It's not so I mean, it's well, I've got a 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.560 story about that. We shot the pilot in March of 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.960 two thousand and four, and my thirtieth birthday was March 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.600 seventh of two thousand and four, and I did not 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.720 invite any of you to my thirtieth birthday party because 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.879 I assumed I would never see you again. I was 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.320 so sure that making the pilot was the end of 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.240 our show, that it would never get picked up, not 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:07.120 because it wasn't good, but because it was so good 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.720 and so weird and so special that no one would 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.920 give us a chance. I thought, well, I don't know. 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.880 All the word on the street was just have fun 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.360 making your pilot, that's all it'll be, right, And then similarly, 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.159 have fun making your next five episodes. They'll probably just 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:28.720 be yours to own on a DVD enjoy, right. So yeah, 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:31.320 So then we go back, We make these five episodes 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.960 in a complete bubble, and then it was not until yeah, 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.960 like that following what was it? Was it like April 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.680 of two thousand and five they started March of two 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.320 thousand and five, they finally start airing. Yes, and they 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.600 had to tell us by May if we were picked 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.840 up for the second season, then yes, crazy, yeah, crazy, 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:57.359 And we were a disaster, like a ratings disaster. Well, 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.800 if it were today, we would be a ratings hit 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.440 right off the bat, because right, but yes, we were 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:09.600 a ratings disaster. But then you know what happened, and 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.040 I know exactly why we got picked up. It was 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.239 that forty year old Virgin came out. Yeah, forty year 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:21.280 old Virgin came out and one hundred percent. I can 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.639 hear in my imagination a conference room filled with NBC 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.280 executives all saying, we aren't going to be the assholes 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.600 who let Steve Correll, the number one box office comedy, 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.560 start out of his television contract. Right, we're picking up 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:40.000 this show for six episodes of season two. Again, six 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.080 episodes is all we got for season two. But then 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:47.600 they really did tailor the show more to Steve, more 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:52.720 to what Steve would be as Michael rather than as 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.680 inspired by David Brent. Yeah, so what do you remember? 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.879 What differences do you remember between one and two? Like 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:02.119 artistic changes, artistic changes. I think the biggest thing I 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.280 noticed was when we started season two, Steve had lost 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:07.960 what twenty pounds are more? I don't know. He was 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.080 so fit because he had gotten in shape for forty 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:15.080 year old Virgin, and they started allowing the character of 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.480