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Speaker 1: I made a grandiose announcement to my management and agents

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Speaker 1: that I would be quitting acting. My acting coach yelled

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Speaker 1: at me and said, don't be stupid. You're doing great.

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Speaker 1: This is what an actor's life is. It's a series

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Speaker 1: of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So this is

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Speaker 1: being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll do one more year, and that was the year

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Speaker 1: that I got the audition for Pam on the Office.

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Speaker 1: This is Jenna Fisher. I played Pam Beasley. Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. Here we are. We're back baby the Office

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Speaker 1: Deep Dive. I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today you will

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Speaker 1: be hearing my conversation with Jenna Fisher. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you something. Jenna and I bonded during the run of

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Speaker 1: the show. We were both nerds for television, and we

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Speaker 1: would have long conversations about television and what we were

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Speaker 1: doing in television. In a way, those conversations are what

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Speaker 1: led me to want to do this podcast. Conversations that

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Speaker 1: I had over the years with Jenna and recently since

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Speaker 1: I started this podcast. And she obviously is the grand Puma.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's the right phrase of podcast. Her

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Speaker 1: and Angela obviously a host and produced Office Ladies. Jenna

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Speaker 1: and I, over the last couple of years have been

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Speaker 1: bonding once again over the office, what the office means

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Speaker 1: today in the cultural zeitgeist, and she and I have

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Speaker 1: had lengthy conversations about that very subject. And today you're

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Speaker 1: going to get to be a fly on the wall.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to hear it. She is

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Speaker 1: one of the most insight full, incisive, smart uh women

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Speaker 1: that I know, and I'm so excited to talk about

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Speaker 1: the thing that we both love, the office. So here

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Speaker 1: she is, Jenni Fisher, Bubble and squeak, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Bubble and squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie. Every moon lived

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Speaker 1: over from the nubb before. Oh how are you? What

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Speaker 1: is this? I don't know? How are you you? Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, it's happening. You can see I got all

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Speaker 1: dressed up. Please in my in my hat and puffy coat.

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Speaker 1: I are we beginning? Have we begun? I mean you're ready? Looks?

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Speaker 1: Officially have papers and a don't computer? In a computer?

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Speaker 1: Do you use a you don't use a computer? During

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Speaker 1: my podcast, I use papers and angel uses notes. Note cards. See.

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Speaker 1: I can scroll here, I can scroll through things, and

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Speaker 1: I can skip on interesting things. But you're staring right

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Speaker 1: in my eyes while you do it, and jess or yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I don't have to do this. Yeah, that's so

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Speaker 1: loud and messy, and I was very distracted by that.

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Speaker 1: It's slightly weird to be stared out while someone's hand

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Speaker 1: is like scrolling a car. You won't see it, well,

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Speaker 1: I won't. I won't. I'm not going to scroll through

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Speaker 1: fifteen pages. Wow, fifteen pages. Listen, there's a lot here.

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Speaker 1: This is a big day. It's a really big day. Okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So two thousand and three, yep, what were you doing

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Speaker 1: before the office? I had been at this point finally

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Speaker 1: making a living as an actor for one year. I'd

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Speaker 1: been in Los Angeles over seven years, but I was

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Speaker 1: finally all of my living from just acting. I had

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Speaker 1: done a pilot. You get paid a lot to do

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Speaker 1: a pilot, so that was a big thing. But the

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Speaker 1: pilot wasn't picked up. So I made a grandiose announcement

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Speaker 1: to my management and agents that I would be quitting acting.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't take the rejection.

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Speaker 1: I just was putting my heart out there, and I

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Speaker 1: just thought, I'm going to become a vet technician. I

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Speaker 1: was very sure this is true, this is true. I

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Speaker 1: don't remember this. I looked into it. It's a two

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Speaker 1: year program. It's very full time. And my manager, Naomi Odenkirk,

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Speaker 1: she said to me, Jenna, will you give us one

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Speaker 1: more year? I mean, you're so close, you really are.

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Speaker 1: You don't understand. This is what it is. My acting

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Speaker 1: coach yelled at me and said, don't be stupid. You're

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Speaker 1: doing great. This is what an actor's life is. It's

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Speaker 1: a series of minor accomplishments and tons of rejection. So

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Speaker 1: this is being an actor. You're doing it. So I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll do one more year. And that was the year

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Speaker 1: that I got the audition for Pam on the Office.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I was also starting down my vet

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Speaker 1: tech you were going. I was working with an animal

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Speaker 1: rescue group and I was taking care of cats in

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Speaker 1: my own home. I was learning how to do things

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Speaker 1: like fluids and all kinds of medical things. I did

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Speaker 1: not know this. Yeah, I was trapped neutering and releasing

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Speaker 1: cats in the wild. Oh my word. Then Alison Jones

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Speaker 1: called and asked me to audition for the Office. Now,

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Speaker 1: I had been auditioning for Allison Jones for five years.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing I went on a general meeting

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Speaker 1: with Alison and it was a great meeting. And Allison

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Speaker 1: called me in to audition for a one line role

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Speaker 1: on Freaks and Geeks. Right, I didn't get it. Then

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Speaker 1: Allison called me to audition for Undeclared, which was a

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Speaker 1: Jet Apatow show, for one line, and I got it,

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Speaker 1: and that one line led to a second episode where

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Speaker 1: I had two lines. So this was my first recurring role. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is okay, but this is all you know a

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Speaker 1: while ago, right, I think I also threw Allison got.

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Speaker 1: My very first speaking role on television was for Spin

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Speaker 1: City the Charlie Sheen Years. Okay, So those were some

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Speaker 1: a few of my ways that Allison had been in

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Speaker 1: my life and she was great. She also called me

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Speaker 1: in for like a Steven Spielberg miniseries that I bombed.

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Speaker 1: It went nowhere. I was horrible. She said, maybe drama's

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Speaker 1: not your thing, and then yeah, she said, you know

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Speaker 1: it's You're gonna be fine. Don't worry. I'm still going

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Speaker 1: to call you in for other things, but maybe drama's

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Speaker 1: not your thing, so very quickly. My Alison Jones story

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Speaker 1: was I moved to LA right before The Office started,

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Speaker 1: and I knew the British version of the Office very well,

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Speaker 1: and I knew they were doing an American version. I

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Speaker 1: was like, this is the show that I must be on.

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Speaker 1: And so I went to my agent at the time

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Speaker 1: and I said, Okay, they're looking for people who are

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Speaker 1: not known, and they said, this is a direct quote.

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Speaker 1: They said, they're looking for unknown people, but not like you, unknown,

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Speaker 1: not like totally. But my manager he kept calling and

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Speaker 1: calling and calling, and I went and I met with Phillis,

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Speaker 1: then I met with Alison, and then I ended up

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Speaker 1: doing that. Well, so here's the thing that little caveat

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Speaker 1: in the casting call that said unknown actors only. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was why this was my big break, right, And

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Speaker 1: this was also why I had been so frustrated and

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Speaker 1: wanted to give up, because I would go through these

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Speaker 1: long audition processes for television shows and I would get

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Speaker 1: as far as the on camera test part, and then

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Speaker 1: they would give it to Alison Hannagan. Alison Hannagan got

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Speaker 1: like three parts that I was four. I could not

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Speaker 1: break through Alison Hannagan. But I was this unknown actor

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Speaker 1: and I had absolutely nothing to offer a bill board

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Speaker 1: on Sunset Boulevard. I had, you know, no name recognition, right,

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Speaker 1: So I couldn't get these big lead parts until the office,

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Speaker 1: when finally the thing that had been working against me

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Speaker 1: was my gift, which was that I was unknown. Right.

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Speaker 1: And now, what do you remember about the day of

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Speaker 1: Did you see anybody else? There any other people that

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Speaker 1: you knew at the time or that ended up being cast,

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Speaker 1: or was there anything specific about that day? Well, I've

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Speaker 1: seen those casting sheets that Allison showed us at the

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Speaker 1: end of the series, and I saw all the various

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Speaker 1: well known now well known people who came in to

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Speaker 1: read for the different parts, and none of those people

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Speaker 1: were at my casting call that I remember, but I

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Speaker 1: would neither. I was just very focused on my audition, Right,

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Speaker 1: can we play that clip? You have a clip? I

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Speaker 1: hope they get rid of me because then I might

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Speaker 1: actually get off my ass and do something, because I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's many little girls dreams to grow up

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Speaker 1: and be our receptionist. And I don't know what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do, but whatever it is, it's got to

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Speaker 1: be a career move, not just another arbitrary job. And

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Speaker 1: Jim's advice was that it's better to be at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of a ladder that you want to climb than

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Speaker 1: halfway up one you don't. Was that my audition? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's insane. Do you remember that? I mean, was that

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Speaker 1: was that you? Or was that was that scripted? That

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Speaker 1: was scripted? Okay? So I had a monologue that was

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Speaker 1: scripted that that talking head, right. I also did a scene.

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Speaker 1: I did the scene where Michael fires Pam and she

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Speaker 1: calls him a jerk, where he fake fires her as

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Speaker 1: a joke, and then I had a just improvised interview

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Speaker 1: with Greg. Greg Daniels was there at my first audition.

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Speaker 1: I went, I guess straight to producers as they call it.

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Speaker 1: So Alison and Greg were there, and I remember Greg

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Speaker 1: being very ringing his hands like in a like a

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Speaker 1: fun like he couldn't believe he's going to get to

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Speaker 1: start this project and he's so excited, and and I

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Speaker 1: just remember the way he was looking at me. It

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Speaker 1: was very curious, kind of like, huh, she's not doing

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Speaker 1: much as she m interesting. That's so well, So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to start talking about myself again because it's ultimately

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Speaker 1: everything is about me. My thing was I knew that

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Speaker 1: Kevin was the part that I should have, and Alison

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Speaker 1: Jones is brilliant, but she had me reading for Stanley,

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Speaker 1: and so I read Stanley as if it were Kevin. Ah,

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Speaker 1: And then I left the room thinking, well, I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: and sure enough she ran after me and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: we had this other part that we want you to

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Speaker 1: look at, and so then that's how that happened. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, Um, the test process, how is that? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So normally when you test for a show, you just

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Speaker 1: perform your scenes live in front of a conference room

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Speaker 1: full of executives. But we were told that because the

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Speaker 1: camera was such an essential part of our show and

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Speaker 1: relating to the camera was so important, that they wanted

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Speaker 1: to do an on camera series of test scenes with

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Speaker 1: the final four actors for each part. So they called

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Speaker 1: us into an actual office building for two days and

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Speaker 1: they mixed and matched us and they taped us doing scenes.

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Speaker 1: And it was great because we were able to give

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Speaker 1: those looks to camera. We were able to react when

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Speaker 1: we noticed the camera was there when we thought it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It really was such a huge element of the show.

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Speaker 1: Greg's other argument for doing it that way was that

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Speaker 1: the show was small in its acting, and the moments

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Speaker 1: that played the biggest were small moments, and he didn't

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Speaker 1: really feel like auditioning in a conference room was going

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Speaker 1: to give the executives the right feel for what he

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Speaker 1: was going for what the show was. Yeah, totally genius.

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Speaker 1: And now, what are some of the things that you

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Speaker 1: remember that were different in the way that the pilot

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Speaker 1: was shot from say, a normal television show. I remember

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Speaker 1: on the pilot, everyone in the cast had to be

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Speaker 1: hair and makeup ready and at their desks starting at

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Speaker 1: seven thirty am, and we would work quote unquote for

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. And Ken would walk around with just a

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Speaker 1: camera operator and a boom and record us at our desks.

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Speaker 1: Just be roll of us at our desks, right, And

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Speaker 1: what did you think of the pilot when you saw it?

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Speaker 1: What did I think of the pilot when I saw it?

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Speaker 1: I must have watched that pilot a gazillion times. I

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Speaker 1: have a very embarrassing story about watching them. Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: So there was a friend of a friend who was

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Speaker 1: this big deal manager and he really wanted to see

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Speaker 1: the pilot, and I thought, well, I have a DVD

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Speaker 1: of the pilot. Maybe I'll take it to his office.

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Speaker 1: But I was so afraid of it leaking that I

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Speaker 1: insisted that he watched it while I sit across from him.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't leave the office without the DVD. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can watch it, but you have to watch it

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Speaker 1: right now while I wait, what was I doing? I

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Speaker 1: was nobody. I don't know. Isn't that so weird? That amazing,

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Speaker 1: so bizarre. But he really wanted to see it because

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Speaker 1: everybody in town wanted to see the pilot. Everyone wanted

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Speaker 1: to see it. They were dying to see what this

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Speaker 1: American version of the British show was going to be. Now, Brian,

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Speaker 1: do you remember coming to my house and watching the

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Speaker 1: pilot and sitting on my floor and gathering all together? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I do. Yeah. Angela was talking to me about it

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Speaker 1: recently and she was like, well, I remember you couldn't

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Speaker 1: get the sound to work on your sound system And

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Speaker 1: I was like really, and she was like yeah. And

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Speaker 1: I remember my dog got out and I had to

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Speaker 1: chase my dog down the street. That's another story, but

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Speaker 1: but that was sort of the beginning of us all

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Speaker 1: gathering together. To watch the show every week, which is

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Speaker 1: what we did. That's so I totally forgot about that.

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Speaker 1: So so we're in a real office space and we

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Speaker 1: are doing this fake work, b rule stuff, like all

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Speaker 1: of these elements to try to create sort of the

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Speaker 1: ultimate reality. Yeah, and to me that there's something interesting. Well,

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Speaker 1: what would you say your training was as an actor?

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Speaker 1: As an actor, yeah, I have a Bachelor of Arts

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Speaker 1: in theater from a little liberal arts college in rural

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Speaker 1: Missouri called Truman State. So this job was a dream

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Speaker 1: job for me as a theater geek. To be able

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Speaker 1: to do this acting exercise where I'm at my disk

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Speaker 1: excuse me very much, but I'm acting, was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was everything my training had prepared me for. That's yeah,

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Speaker 1: see that's and so that was you and then Rain

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Speaker 1: and I knew each other a little bit from theater

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Speaker 1: as well. And then you've go aunt Angela and Oscar

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Speaker 1: and Steve, who are like improv yes, right, and then

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Speaker 1: we got bj and Craig Robinson that are stand up guys. Primarily,

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Speaker 1: to me, there was something about the creation of the

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Speaker 1: ensemble that there were all of these funny people, but

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Speaker 1: they all sort of had a different perspective, and there

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Speaker 1: was something about the reality, sort of the ultra reality

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Speaker 1: of being stuck in this room and doing this work, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and always being there together that that sort of helped

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Speaker 1: meld us together in a weird way. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: if we had all been improv performers, it would have

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Speaker 1: been a shit show, right, Or if we were all

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Speaker 1: theater people, we would have been taking all of ourselves

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Speaker 1: too seriously. The mix was important, like the way all

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Speaker 1: of the ingredients came together. And I think you know,

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Speaker 1: another thing that was really unusual was that we were

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Speaker 1: all always at work, because if you weren't in a scene,

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Speaker 1: you were in the background of a scene. We would

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Speaker 1: joke sometimes we'd be like, do none of us go

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Speaker 1: to the bathroom? We never leave for lunch, Like we're

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Speaker 1: always all at our desks. By season six or seven,

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Speaker 1: people were going to the bathroom a little bit more

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Speaker 1: from Time to Die, yes, more often that all right, Well,

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Speaker 1: Theodore Nerd, how is Pam different from Jenna? Well, it

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Speaker 1: would not take me three years to tell Jim that

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Speaker 1: I had feelings for him. I mean I would have

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Speaker 1: dumped Roy much quicker. I would have been like, who's

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Speaker 1: this guy? Because not just that. I mean, when we

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Speaker 1: meet Pam and Jim, they've already been working together for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then it's still three more

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Speaker 1: years after that before they figure some stuff out. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm much more ambitious, much more of an entrepreneurial spirit

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Speaker 1: than Pam. However, the way that we are very similar

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Speaker 1: is that it took me a long time like Pam

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to speak up for myself. Like Pam,

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Speaker 1: I spent many years sitting at a reception desk, wishing

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Speaker 1: that I was doing something else. I literally sat at

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Speaker 1: reception desks and daydreamed about the day that I might

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Speaker 1: be an actor. And Pam sits at that desk and

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Speaker 1: she daydreams about being artistically expressed. And so I could

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Speaker 1: really relate to that, that feeling of I want something

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Speaker 1: more than what I'm doing, but I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to get it exactly. But I will say that as Jenna,

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Speaker 1: I was taking much more actions in my life to

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Speaker 1: get out of my situation than I think Pam did.

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Speaker 1: It took Pam a lot longer, but she had a

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Speaker 1: lot more forces against her than I did. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure Pam's mom was saying things to her,

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Speaker 1: or her parents were saying things to her like, honey,

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Speaker 1: you can do anything you want to do. If you

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Speaker 1: want to be an artist, you go be an artist.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was the messaging that I was getting

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Speaker 1: from my parents. You gotta go for it. Do what

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Speaker 1: you love in life. Even if you aren't successful, you'll

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Speaker 1: be glad you did it. I mean, I had those

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Speaker 1: kind of parents. They didn't support me financially as an actor,

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Speaker 1: but they supported my spirit and they were always there

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Speaker 1: for that pep talk. And I mean, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if I can explain how valuable that was. And

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Speaker 1: it was clear to me that Pam didn't have some

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Speaker 1: of those tools in her toolbox. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: Greg and the writing staff, because in a way they

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Speaker 1: were masterful about this, right about finding things, finding things

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Speaker 1: that were true to you the actor, and incorporating them

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Speaker 1: into the story. Do you think that Pam's want and

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Speaker 1: desire to be an artist and to be seen in

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Speaker 1: that way? Do you think that there's anything that was

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Speaker 1: taken from you? I'm not sure because if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: I feel like the character on the British Show had

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Speaker 1: some minor desire to be an artist doesn't. Doesn't the

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Speaker 1: Tim character give Don some drawing pencils at some point?

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Speaker 1: Or am I making that up? And I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, But I do know that Greg used

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Speaker 1: to ask me questions about my thoughts, that that was

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Speaker 1: so unusual, the fact that several of our writers were

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Speaker 1: also actors, so they were down with us, they were

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Speaker 1: observing us all the time. I mean, you, Angela and

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Speaker 1: Oscar single handedly created that insane dynamic between the three

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Speaker 1: of you through I believe improvisation when you were bored

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Speaker 1: in the background, and so then you've got Mindy, BJ

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Speaker 1: and Paul watching you guys, and then taking that back

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Speaker 1: up to the writer's room and flushing it out totally.

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Speaker 1: It was genius that Greg did it that way. But

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Speaker 1: then more than that, Greg truly believed that no one

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Speaker 1: knew our characters more than we did, and he would

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Speaker 1: ask us questions all the time. He cared about our opinions.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to know all the time, what do you

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Speaker 1: think Pam would think of this situation? He was always

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Speaker 1: very curious. He also knew that I worked in offices

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Speaker 1: and that I had worked as a receptionist, and he

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Speaker 1: used to ask me questions, what's the craziest thing one

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Speaker 1: of your boss has ever made you do? And I

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Speaker 1: can't remember if I told this story to him before

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Speaker 1: or after, But there's that episode where Michael is refusing

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Speaker 1: to sign all of his documents until the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. He just keeps putting it off and putting

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Speaker 1: it off and putting it off. And I told Greg

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Speaker 1: I had this boss once that every month, at the

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Speaker 1: end of the month, he had to turn in this

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Speaker 1: boiler plate report and he would put it off and

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Speaker 1: put it off. And one time he put it off

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Speaker 1: so long I had to drive to lax because that

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Speaker 1: was the last FedEx pickup. And I was so pissed.

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Speaker 1: And Greg was like he loved those stories. He loved

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Speaker 1: whenever we told him stories like that, and they would

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Speaker 1: get used. Okay, so we shoot the pilot, we eventually air.

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Speaker 1: It's striking to me that you started like December ish

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Speaker 1: right of like two thousand and three into January. We

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Speaker 1: shot the pilot in February of two thousand and four. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's thirteen months before anything gets on the air.

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Speaker 1: It's not so I mean, it's well, I've got a

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Speaker 1: story about that. We shot the pilot in March of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four, and my thirtieth birthday was March

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Speaker 1: seventh of two thousand and four, and I did not

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Speaker 1: invite any of you to my thirtieth birthday party because

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Speaker 1: I assumed I would never see you again. I was

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Speaker 1: so sure that making the pilot was the end of

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Speaker 1: our show, that it would never get picked up, not

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't good, but because it was so good

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Speaker 1: and so weird and so special that no one would

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Speaker 1: give us a chance. I thought, well, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: All the word on the street was just have fun

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Speaker 1: making your pilot, that's all it'll be, right, And then similarly,

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Speaker 1: have fun making your next five episodes. They'll probably just

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Speaker 1: be yours to own on a DVD enjoy, right. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: So then we go back, We make these five episodes

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Speaker 1: in a complete bubble, and then it was not until yeah,

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Speaker 1: like that following what was it? Was it like April

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and five they started March of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, they finally start airing. Yes, and they

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Speaker 1: had to tell us by May if we were picked

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Speaker 1: up for the second season, then yes, crazy, yeah, crazy,

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Speaker 1: And we were a disaster, like a ratings disaster. Well,

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Speaker 1: if it were today, we would be a ratings hit

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Speaker 1: right off the bat, because right, but yes, we were

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Speaker 1: a ratings disaster. But then you know what happened, and

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Speaker 1: I know exactly why we got picked up. It was

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Speaker 1: that forty year old Virgin came out. Yeah, forty year

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Speaker 1: old Virgin came out and one hundred percent. I can

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Speaker 1: hear in my imagination a conference room filled with NBC

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Speaker 1: executives all saying, we aren't going to be the assholes

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Speaker 1: who let Steve Correll, the number one box office comedy,

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Speaker 1: start out of his television contract. Right, we're picking up

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Speaker 1: this show for six episodes of season two. Again, six

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Speaker 1: episodes is all we got for season two. But then

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Speaker 1: they really did tailor the show more to Steve, more

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Speaker 1: to what Steve would be as Michael rather than as

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Speaker 1: inspired by David Brent. Yeah, so what do you remember?

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Speaker 1: What differences do you remember between one and two? Like

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Speaker 1: artistic changes, artistic changes. I think the biggest thing I

397
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Speaker 1: noticed was when we started season two, Steve had lost

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Speaker 1: what twenty pounds are more? I don't know. He was

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Speaker 1: so fit because he had gotten in shape for forty

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Speaker 1: year old Virgin, and they started allowing the character of

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Speaker 1: Michael to be more sympathetic. They would let him break

402
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Speaker 1: our heart a little bit. Even in the Dundees, for example,

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Speaker 1: you see a bunch of people heckel Michael, and then

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Speaker 1: you see the people in the office stand up for Michael.

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Speaker 1: And in the first season none of us ever stood

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Speaker 1: up for Michael. We all just hated Michael. But they

407
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Speaker 1: started to allow Steve to display vulnerability, which he's so

408
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Speaker 1: good at. But then also you have an episode in

409
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Speaker 1: season two, like the Client, where you see Michael start

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Speaker 1: out as what seems like a total buffoon and turn

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Speaker 1: into a masterful salesperson. Right, you see a reason that

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Speaker 1: he actually has this job. Yes, And I think those

413
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: were differences. In the first season, we just really leaned

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Speaker 1: into his mean spirited buffoonery the ways he irritated us.

415
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Speaker 1: But now in season two we were bringing out sprinklings

416
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Speaker 1: of these very redeeming qualities in him. Or even the

417
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Speaker 1: Halloween episode in season two where at the very end,

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Speaker 1: after he's had this horrible day of having to fire someone,

419
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Speaker 1: you see him hand out candy to these little kids.

420
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Speaker 1: It makes me cry every time I watch it every time,

421
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Speaker 1: Or the end of Office Olympics where he's crying because

422
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Speaker 1: everyone is so genuinely applauding for his purchase of a condo.

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Speaker 1: These little moments in each episode. There seemed to be

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Speaker 1: one in each episode that was very different from season one. Right,

425
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Speaker 1: season two, everything everything changed, Right, So we have six episodes,

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Speaker 1: and then we do six episodes and then didn't we

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Speaker 1: get I think four? Four more and then three more

428
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: and then two. Yeah, and then what I remember very

429
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: clearly was sometime after the New Year, they said, okay,

430
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: you can finish twenty two, and then within two weeks

431
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: we had an order for season three, a full order.

432
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: I did not remember that. Yes I do. Do you

433
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: think I'm wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong. I

434
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: always wondered because to me, I did not feel like

435
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: I had job security until Steve won the Golden Globe. Well,

436
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: there was that, and then there was iTunes. Yeah, they

437
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: started doing the video iPods. The Christmas episode went to

438
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: number one like that. Yeah, and the Christmas episode on

439
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: TV was our highest rated show. So it was like,

440
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, from December to January suddenly things changed. Yeah,

441
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: and then after season two we won the Emmy. Yes,

442
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: is there anything specific about that? Night that you remember.

443
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: I remember that Emmy's because at this point now we

444
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: had become a bit of a critical darling. So in

445
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: the beginning, the critics hated us, right, and they only

446
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: compared us to the British show. And then we had

447
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: turned them around now in time for this Emmy Awards,

448
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: and so being at these awards, we were the new

449
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: kids on the block. We were super fresh. The critics

450
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: loved us, but we were still not a front runner

451
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: to win, and so it was a complete surprise when

452
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: we won. Many people there had no idea who we were.

453
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: They didn't recognize us. It's funny. I remember, I remember

454
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: running into the cast of Scrubs and they were like

455
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: the big deal guys, and we were the newbies and

456
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: they were super nice to us, and I was like,

457
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's Scrubs. Cut to like eight years later,

458
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: I remember and being at an awards show and running

459
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: into the next batch, the new freshman class of TV right,

460
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, oh, I'm Scrubs. Now we're Scrubs.

461
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: We're We're like the kids who've been around the block

462
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: a few times. Totally. See mine wasn't mine, was Porsche

463
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: d ROSSI Oh, you ran Intoe at the first Emmy's

464
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: super nice, so great. Yes, and that's what I thought. Um,

465
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: going back a little bit, another thing that I think

466
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: made us really unique and also sort of that ultra

467
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: realism was Scranton. Yeah, and making the decision for it

468
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: to be Scranton. Well, and I know that they did

469
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: a lot of research when it came to just the

470
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: things that were around the office, local radio stations, hers

471
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: potato chips from Pennsylvania, We're in our vending machine, really

472
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: creating this realism, the Lackawanna County coal mine, coal mine,

473
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: things like that, you know, working all that stuff into

474
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: the show. I know it really always broke Greg's heart

475
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: that we never shot an episode in Scranton. Every year

476
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: they would toy with the idea of taking us there,

477
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: and it was just always cost prohibitive. I know Greg's

478
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: dream was that we would shoot the Saint Patrick's Day parade.

479
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: This is so crazy that you're saying this. That was

480
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: literally when asked my biggest regret, that was it? Yeah,

481
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: I would say the same. My biggest regret was that

482
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: we never shot in Scranton. But the city of Scranton.

483
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: I remember one year they were really looking into this

484
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: parade idea, and they agreed to move their parade two

485
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: months earlier, you know, because we would have to shoot

486
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: before Saint Patrick's Day. So they were going to have

487
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: their Saint Patrick's Day parade in January, and they just

488
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out, costwise how to get the entire cast

489
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: and crew there. Right, to me, it's this weird like

490
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: dichotomy thing where even though it was about Scranton where

491
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: very few people had gone right on a national scale,

492
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: like people don't know those places, but having those details

493
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: sprinkled into me somehow translated to making it more universal.

494
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with you. I think as a person

495
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: who grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, me and other

496
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: people who grew up there, we so identify our city

497
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: as part of us, and so it made it more

498
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: universally real that we identified so strongly with the city

499
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: we were in Scranton, and I think that's true of

500
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people where you grow up, right. No, absolutely,

501
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: there's just I love that city and there's something about

502
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: my connection to that city. Do you remember the I

503
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: can't remember the year, but the presidential election right where

504
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: everybody who was running somehow suddenly everybody was from Scranton, right,

505
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: like Joe Biden at this Scranton connection, Hillary Clinton the office. No, totally,

506
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: it was all like, oh yeah in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I

507
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: used to go and visit Grandma and she would you know.

508
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: It was this crazy like became the sort of cultural touchstone,

509
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: like the heart of the nation is located in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

510
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: I love it. We talked about there was an interesting

511
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: thing where, you know, the ultimate question is why the

512
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: show is what it is now, which we'll examine in

513
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: a minute. But it seems like we were writing this

514
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: digital wave right like the show started. We're going to

515
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: do a show about a dying industry. And at the

516
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: same time that we're doing a show about a dying industry,

517
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: the technological advances we ended up this wave. Well, early

518
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: on you might remember a bunch of us were on MySpace.

519
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Yes we're going to discuss Yes, Well, Angela, b J

520
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: and I and you did as well. We had these

521
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: MySpace pages that were on our computers while we were

522
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: in scenes, and we were interacting with people on my Space.

523
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: We were blogging, but we were also I would type

524
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: things to people like an instant message like Hey, when

525
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: you watch the such and such episode, in this scene,

526
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: you'll know I was typing this to you, and we

527
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: just it was like before Twitter, before Instagram, before social media.

528
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: It was really before Facebook. My Space was the place

529
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: that there was this social interaction totally. And then there

530
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: was iTunes that was huge for us. And then there

531
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: were the webisodes, the first show that did that online

532
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: content and obviously sort of culminating in Netflix. How do

533
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: you think that the that those things help to us

534
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: either reach an audience or well, I think it connected

535
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: people deeply to the show. And to have the actors

536
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: of the TV show that you really love interacting with you,

537
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: answering your questions, caring as much as you do, it

538
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: kind of makes you feel like you're part of it

539
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: in a more real, intimate way. And also it was real.

540
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: That connection was real. There would be times when the

541
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: writers and Greg would read some Twitter feedback about an

542
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: episode or a storyline, and it did affect things going forward.

543
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,239
Speaker 1: Give me my Remote I think was a website too,

544
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: where give me my Remote? Yes? Yeah, all of there

545
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: reading this stuff. Yes, the idea of these bloggers. We

546
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: had a bunch of fan sites we had Office Tally

547
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: dot com run by Jenny Tan and this gal Jenny

548
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: did such a good job of running this website that

549
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: she would we would invite her to visit the set

550
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: and give her exclusives and things. And then there was

551
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: Northern Attack that was based on that line from Diversity

552
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: Day as Abraham Lincoln said, I will attack you with

553
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: the North. Yes, Northern Attack. I love Northern, So give

554
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: me my remote Northern Attack. All of these TV websites

555
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: and bloggers people started blogging about us, and we were cool, right, like,

556
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: oh no, totally yeah, And so this all happening for

557
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: the part of something. Yeah, you were part of something.

558
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: You were part of a movement in a way, and

559
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: our show was part of that movement. I think I

560
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: was literally laying in bed last night thinking about this. Like,

561
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: if you think about the off Us as like a

562
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: person or a body or something, Pam was the heart

563
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: and your relationship with so many different people, well with everybody,

564
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: but really those three, you know, Jim and Dwight and Michael. Yeah,

565
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: obviously the relationship with Jim. Why do you think that

566
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: that relationship resonated so much with audiences? Oh, I think

567
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: it's the unrequited love. I think we've all been there.

568
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: We've all been in love with someone who either didn't

569
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: love us or couldn't love us, or because of circumstances

570
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: or distance or whatever these things were were keeping us

571
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: from being able to fully express our feelings. The longing,

572
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: and then I think additionally the clear chemistry between the

573
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: characters that you could see that they were meant to

574
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: be together and you just rooted for them absolutely. But

575
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: I think that there was also something about your performance

576
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: and John's performance. You showed such heart and vulnerability that

577
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: I think people were really rooting for you, whether they

578
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: had found what they wanted to or not. Well. I

579
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: think both Pam and Jim are very good people. They're polite.

580
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why it takes them so long.

581
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: And I think you always want the good guy to win.

582
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: So I think you did want them to find one

583
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: another and be together. It's hopeful, right, Nothing throughout the

584
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: entire history of the show brought production to a screeching

585
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: halt like a big Jim Pam moment. It's true, And

586
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: I say that with love and also with utter frustration. Yeah,

587
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: we really really cared. I mean, John and I would

588
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: fight hard for what we believed, and we were usually

589
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: on the same page with Jim and Pam. Were had

590
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: like a singular mind when it came to Jim and Pam.

591
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: For the most part, there was often one Jim Pam

592
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: moment per episode, and it was either where they're going

593
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: to connect in some super special swoony way, or they're

594
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: gonna misstep in some way, or where one of them

595
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: gets their feelings hurt. And there was this very fine

596
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: line that we had to walk all the time. So

597
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: for example, shooting a scene over and over and over

598
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: again where this time they can touch hands, but then

599
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: we have to do one where they don't touch hands

600
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: because it might be too much. When if their hands

601
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: touch that might be going too far. Or do we

602
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: end it with a hug or should he kiss her cheek?

603
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: Before all of these little ways, how much were they

604
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: allowed to literally touch one another, look in each other's eyes,

605
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: swoon at each other. I mean we would We would

606
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: spend hours debating and shooting alternates of these Jim Pam scenes. Yeah,

607
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: and ours is not an exaggeration. It is not an exaggeration. No.

608
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: But what's amazing is this wasn't like mystical producers in

609
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: another land talking about it. This was you and John

610
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: who are in there indulgent. No, no, not at all. No.

611
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think it speaks to the two of

612
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: you as artists, but I think that there's also the

613
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: camera as a character. And what I recall is you

614
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: and John, specifically with greg Or Ken or one of

615
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: the other directors, you know, sort of two major questions,

616
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: who is seeing this moment? Is the camera seeing this moment?

617
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: And how does that change my behavior in this moment?

618
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: And those were the things that I feel like well

619
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: brought production to a screeching hold. This was one of

620
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: the most fun elements of working on our show was

621
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: this camera as a character because this idea that when

622
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: you know the camera is filming you, it affects your behavior.

623
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: It certainly affects Michael's behavior. When he knows the camera

624
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: is on him, he performs for the camera. He does

625
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: things like makes giant declarations and pledges of money to

626
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: Oscar's nephews Walkathon in front of the camera. But then

627
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: when he doesn't know that the camera is shooting through

628
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: the blinds, he tries to talk his way out of it.

629
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: So that is so fun. To play, and similarly with

630
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam. How do Jim and Pam behave when

631
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: they know they're being watched and observed? And then how

632
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: do they behave with one another when they can't see

633
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: the camera, when the camera is deep in the kitchen

634
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: shooting through the blinds. I absolutely loved those nuances. Those

635
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: were some of the most fun things to play with

636
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: on our show. Yes, well, and when I directed, and

637
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying well when I directed to get

638
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: in the fact that I directed. But there was a

639
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 1: moment later on season eight Kathy lindsay broad Yeah, Kathy

640
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: and Jim goes away to Florida, and Kathy's clearly trying

641
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: to get the moves on him. It's taking place in

642
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: Jim's bedroom and we had to shoot the only way

643
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: to shoot the room was through the windows, because if

644
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: the cameras were in the room, we would not have

645
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: gotten the interaction between Kathy and Jim that we ultimately wanted.

646
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: But then there was a phone call with Pam. You

647
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: with Pam that happened there and I remember sitting you

648
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: weren't Invalencia, you were probably home. Did I not come?

649
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: Because I have a very vivid memory of being there

650
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: when Jim was a smug bedbug? Was that your episode

651
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: Smugbedbug Sug? I have a memory of watching Rain and

652
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: John crack up as John was a smugbedbug. I think

653
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: that you came for the phone call. But we had

654
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: a huge conversation about you were involved in what the

655
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: interaction was between Kathy and Jim, because John wanted you

656
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: involved and you wanted to be involved, and how that interaction,

657
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: what that meant for your relationship with Jim. Yeah, anyway,

658
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: I think it just speaks to everybody wanting to get

659
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: it right. Yeah, we cared on this show very deeply.

660
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 1: Everybody cared very very much. And I think that started

661
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: with Greg. Greg's heart was in this show and you

662
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: could tell and he delighted. He delighted in getting it right.

663
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: And we would shoot something and we would all look

664
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: over at the monitors at Greg and see if he

665
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: was doing his little handclap with his little smile and

666
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: he puts his eyes up in the air. Oh you know,

667
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: because that's when we knew we nailed it. And he

668
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: was such a great barometer for that. When did you

669
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: start realizing or noticing that Jim and Pam's relationship was

670
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: becoming so important to people outside and was it infringing

671
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: on your real life? Well, realizing that my friend John

672
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: and I couldn't go anywhere in public together as friends

673
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: or else people would lose their minds. They didn't know

674
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: how to deal with that. They didn't know how. And

675
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: even today, people don't know how John and I are

676
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: not a couple in real life, right. They don't understand it,

677
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: And I don't know how to explain it because it's

678
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: a little bit like telling kids there's no Santa. It's like,

679
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to break anyone's heart, right, So it's hard,

680
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: It's really hard. You should just explain that he's a

681
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: real pain in the ass in a life. Why would

682
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: you not just say that? But that's weird. I have to.

683
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I have to justify why John and I,

684
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,959
Speaker 1: which you aren't actually in love. And the bottom line

685
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: is we were playing characters. But I know that if

686
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: people think of us as John and Jenna, then it's

687
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: destroying some of the magic of Jim and Pam. But

688
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: I'm not Pam in real life, and he's not Jim

689
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: in real life, and in real life we're mismatched. He

690
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: is perfectly matched with Emily, and I'm perfectly matched with Lee,

691
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: and you know us all both, And in fact, I

692
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: feel like if anyone wants to marry anyone, they want

693
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: to marry Emily or Lee, they don't want to actually

694
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: marry me or John. Is that a good description of

695
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: why John and I are not a matched in real

696
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: life because you know us both. Yes, I think that

697
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: that's a great description. I also think, yeah, you both

698
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: were playing characters, and I think that you and you've

699
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: expressed today how different you are from Pam and John

700
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: is different from Jim. People perceive you to be that

701
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: even you know, if someone has a couple of minute

702
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: interaction with me, they're not going to mistake me for Kevin. Yeah,

703
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: and I think that's so true of like and as well. Yeah,

704
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: Angela is like a bubbly cheerleader. She's your best friend

705
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: in two minutes. She's so not the bitchy Angela Martin

706
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: that she plays on the show. Oh come on, But

707
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: I do see how John and I the line is

708
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: a little more blurred, Like you can have an interaction

709
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: with John and I and think maybe that we really

710
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: are just like Pam or just like yam. Yes, yeah, okay.

711
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite moment or moments between the

712
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: two of you that you got to play together. Yes.

713
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: One of my first favorite moments is when we are

714
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: up on the roof eating the grilled cheese sandwiches and

715
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: you and Rain are doing the fireworks out in the lawn.

716
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: And that was super special because we had this skeleton crew.

717
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: Everyone had gone home for the day and up until

718
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: this point we had mostly only ever been shooting in

719
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: a big group in the office with lots of people,

720
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: and here it was just me and John on some

721
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: lawn chairs. It was a summer evening, like a warm breeze, candlelight.

722
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: Greg is up on the roof, just a couple of

723
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: crew members were up on the roof, and it was

724
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: like so peaceful up there, the five of us, and

725
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: then watching you and Rain, who I believe we had

726
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: no way of communicating with none, Yeah, just setting off fireworks.

727
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: It just all felt really real and lovely. So that

728
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: moment is one of my favorite moments. And what I'm

729
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: gonna do is I'm gonna edit out you're talking about

730
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: Greg and the other two crew members up there, because

731
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: then you just scribing sitting there with John. That's why

732
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: people think you're in love. It's a warm summer breeze.

733
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: We were sitting in lawn chairs on the roof. But

734
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: some of it like it's true. It's like, you know,

735
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: Matt Son is up on the roof and Greg is

736
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: there and we're all just none of us can believe

737
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: or on the roof and we had to take this.

738
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: They had this old, rickety, rusted ladder that was on

739
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: the side of the roof that everybody else climbed up,

740
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: but since John and I were cast members, we weren't allowed.

741
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: So they've like fork lifted us up there on this

742
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: wearing a weird harness. It was very funny. Yes, were

743
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: you worried when Pam and Jim got married that that

744
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: was going to screw things up? I wasn't because we

745
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: had been together now for a couple of seasons, right,

746
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: So I think the question was can they get together

747
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: and be a stable couple and will we still care?

748
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: And and I remember having a conversation with Greg where

749
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: Greg was like, well, you know what's going to lose

750
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: people is if we just keep manufacturing these affairs and

751
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: these you know, weird ways that we keep them apart.

752
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: That's exhausting and it's not realistic. And so what we're

753
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: going to need to do is bring them together and

754
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: then give them obstacles to overcome as a couple. So,

755
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: rather than obstacles that keep them from being a couple,

756
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 1: give them obstacles to break through as a couple, like

757
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: Pam wanting to go to art school, or Jim wanting

758
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: to start his own business, or having their first kid

759
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: or whatever these things were, that they were going to

760
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: have to weather the storm together, that that would be

761
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: more interesting and more realistic, and people loved it. I

762
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: think that's so smart, so smart, because but he said,

763
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: you know what's not going to be satisfying is if

764
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: they get together at the end of season nine after

765
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: multiple affairs and like all this, like everyone's going to

766
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: be like, yay, I guess you know, congrats. I hope

767
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: you enjoy your marriage with all your horrible baggage. Totally right,

768
00:47:50,560 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: that's not a happy ending. I'd never smart. Yeah, Okay,

769
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: So I talked again about sort of that emotional core. Dwight,

770
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about the relationship between

771
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: the two of you and how that changed and evolved.

772
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you were with Jim adversaries and made you

773
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: crazy forever, and then ultimately by the end, he says

774
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: that you're his best friend. Dwight does Dwight does you know?

775
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: I think it's that first episode The Injury, when Pam

776
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: has that line Dwight is kind of my friend, But

777
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: I think there's other things. You know, Jim and Pam

778
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: spends so much time teasing Dwight, and I think even

779
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: go too far. A few times. In my rewatching of

780
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: the show, I think there's a few times when we're like,

781
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: actually a little cruel to him that make me cringe

782
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: and I feel like, oh if that wasn't our best moment.

783
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: But I appreciate because we allow our characters to I mean,

784
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: we don't all every day have perfect moments, right, right,

785
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: But it's so hard for me to think about Pam's

786
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: relationship with Dwight without thinking about my relationship to Rain. Right.

787
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: Rain is a deeply soulful person. He's also like a

788
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: curmudgeonly old man. He's real cranky sometimes and on set

789
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: he would be hilarious. Do you remember the time Do

790
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: you remember the time that he declared, oh my god,

791
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: it was so funny. We were getting ready to shoot,

792
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: and he said, hold on, wait, just hold on, everybody,

793
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: hold on for a second. I have an announcement. Everyone,

794
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: on Mondays, you do not need to ask me how

795
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: my weekend was anymore. All right, every single person asked

796
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: me how my weekend was, just so it was fine.

797
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: We were like, where is this comming from? Right? And

798
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: I talked to him about this and he goes, Jenna,

799
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: that is not true. I said that on a Tuesday.

800
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: I said, only asked me how my weekend was on Mondays.

801
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: No more of this bleeding into Tuesday Mondays. And he

802
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: went crazy because you and I know what he was

803
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: talking about, because it's five o'clock in the morning and

804
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: every single person that you pass is like, hello, good morning,

805
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: how is your weekend? Yes, And he what he was

806
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: saying was like, you don't have to talk to me.

807
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: We just saw each other on Friday night. We're good,

808
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: We're good. Yes, It's so true. So he would be

809
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: like that guy on this set. It was like so funny.

810
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: But then at the same time, in moments of deep crisis,

811
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: I have phoned him. I had a job offer that

812
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: was going to take me out of town and would

813
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: uproot my family for a period of time that I

814
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: really wrestled with the decision. I called him and he

815
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: counseled me. He is he has that in him, a

816
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: type of counselor, and I value him so deeply in

817
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: my life. But then like like he'll call me up

818
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: and he'll be like, do you want to go to lunch?

819
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I mean, because you sound like

820
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: you want to go so bad, Like is it a

821
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: chore or do you want to go? He's like, no,

822
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: I want to lunch with you. Like all right, let's

823
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: go to lunch. And then you go to lunch, and

824
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: I was just sort of like, are you liking our lunch?

825
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: Are we having a good lunch? How are you tell

826
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,479
Speaker 1: me about you? And all yeah? So funny. But then

827
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: like if I were to do you know what I mean?

828
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: So it's like very much like the Pam Dwight where

829
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: Pam will like be like, oh, I love Dwight. I'm

830
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: gonna go say something nice to him, and then he'll

831
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: just be like, Pam something about knives, something about snakes

832
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: or bears, and she's like yeah, okay, right, okay, But

833
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: so I guess M. I feel deeply loved by Ray,

834
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: and I think Pam Fille deeply loved by Dwight as well,

835
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: like they had a real bond, They really cared for

836
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: one another eventually eventually. Yeah. Well, and it's similar to

837
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: your relationship with Michael, right, I mean from where that

838
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: relationship started and him fake firing you to him leaving

839
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: and you having sort of that final moment with him.

840
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: What did he say to you? Well, it wasn't so

841
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: much what he said to me. Paul Fieke directed that

842
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: episode Goodbye Michael, and we were at the airport and

843
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: Paul Fike said, Jenna, I want you to just run

844
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: up and just say goodbye to Steve, your friend Steve.

845
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: This is your last scene with him, so say goodbye.

846
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: We're not going to use the sound, We're just going

847
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: to have a spy shot on you. So I thought, okay.

848
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: So I ran up to Steve and I just told

849
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: him all the ways I was going to miss him

850
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: and how grateful I was for his friendship and the

851
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: privilege of working with him. And I'm sobbing, and he's sobbing,

852
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: and we're hugging, and and I didn't want to let

853
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: him go, and I didn't want the scene to end.

854
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: And then finally Paul fi you know, says cut and

855
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: he was like, Jenna, that was that was brilliant. Can

856
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: you do it again, but just a little faster because

857
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: it had been like five minutes. He was like, we

858
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: just need to tighten it up a little because they

859
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: wanted him to actually walk away and they had one camera. Yeah,

860
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: there was only one shot that they couldn't edit. Yeah,

861
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: that is so great. I was like, just tighten it

862
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: up a little, but sweetie, great job. I guess he

863
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: could tell. I was like sobbing. Yeah, I've in thinking back. Honestly,

864
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: when he Steve leaving to me was almost more emotional

865
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: than the show ending. Well, the thing is is that

866
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't just the character of Michael that we were losing.

867
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: We were losing the captain of our ship, Steve Carrell.

868
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: And I don't think that I can say enough how

869
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: important him as our leader was, because just the kind

870
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: of man he is, his work, ethic, his kindness, his generosity,

871
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: there was no ego, and to be led with that,

872
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: along with Greg's heart, it was very frightening to me

873
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: that we were losing him. He was our compass that

874
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: pointed us north and kept us all in line, and

875
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: I really worried, what's it going to be like on

876
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: set without him? We just all agreed he was the

877
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: most important person on set, and we always wanted the

878
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: day to be easy for him. He had the most lines,

879
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: he had the most work, he had to drive the show,

880
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 1: and we all just collectively we're there to support him.

881
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: And he was so generous. I mean I remember, I

882
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: remember directors would come in who were new and they

883
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to find Steve, but he'd just be

884
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: sitting on the couch. By reception, We'll be like, oh,

885
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: he's right there, because he was so He wasn't like

886
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: a and I'm here kind of guy, you know, he

887
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: was just And I say this because after working on

888
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: the Office, I've worked on many projects where this is

889
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: not the case, and I see how that infects a

890
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: group of people when there is someone who is leading

891
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: the ship, who is insecure and needs a constant ego boost,

892
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: And it makes me even more grateful for how Steve

893
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: was and how he is still. I also remember Will

894
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 1: Farrell coming in and guesting with us, and then I've

895
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: done movies with Will Ferrell and he's the same way,

896
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: and I always thought, Wow, they really have a competition

897
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: for greatest person to work for work with Steve and

898
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: Will just like nicest man in Hollywood. But so my

899
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: biggest fear was even just what is the onset vibe

900
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: going to be like without Steve? Not to mention what

901
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: stories are we going to tell? Who are we without

902
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: this leader? And I'll say it here and this is

903
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: the only time I've ever really publicly said this, but

904
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: It's always disappointed me that we didn't trust in our

905
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 1: core office group enough to continue the show without bringing

906
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: in what I think we thought we needed, which were

907
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: these big guest actors to fill steve shoes. And I

908
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: always felt like fear drove some decisions to that. I

909
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: does that make sense? It does make sense. Yeah. I

910
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: always wondered just what would that season have been like

911
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: like what we then got with season nine, where we said, no,

912
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: we're enough, the bench is deep enough, the talent is there.

913
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: We can keep the ship afloat with what we have, right.

914
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about that season eight, No,

915
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. I think that there was

916
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: fear and what would happen if we didn't have someone

917
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: else helming because being the boss changes the character. Yeah,

918
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: so Dwight as the boss is not Dwight, that's right.

919
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: Dwight is the character who wants to be the boss,

920
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: who's always angling to be the boss, but who does

921
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: not actually have the authority. Right, So if you make

922
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: him the boss, then who is that guy? So it

923
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: does make sense that they felt like they're needed to

924
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: be and that was the question who should be the boss? Well? Right,

925
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: this was the conversation who should be the boss? I

926
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: mean I remember being up in the writer's room and

927
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: people asking me who I thought should be the boss?

928
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, guys, I don't know, I don't know. Right.

929
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: They were still trying to get like anybody's opinion, like

930
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: does anyone have a perspective on this? Well? And I

931
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: think as a character it was Jim. I mean I

932
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: think Jim was the most I mean, he was lazy,

933
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: he was the most well suited to technical levels, should

934
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: be promoted to that job? Correct? Right? Yes, in terms

935
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: of his interaction with people, his ability to lead and

936
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: sort of inspire people. But I think then that messes

937
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: up storylines in a way that for sure. Yeah, So

938
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: I guess you know when you when when we get

939
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: back to this, it is like, okay, when we need

940
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: some other force of nature to come in and be

941
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: the boss of these people so that they can stay

942
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: being them, right, Yeah, I don't know that was That

943
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: was tricky, but we made it through and we got

944
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: some great episodes that season. Yes, and then we went

945
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: into season nine where we sort of just didn't have

946
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: a boss for a while. Remember Andy was our boss,

947
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: but then he got lost on the boat and then

948
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: we just sort of we were like, oh, here's an answer.

949
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: It's an empty office. There's no regional manager anymore. What

950
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: did you think about bringing the sound man, breaking the

951
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: fourth wall and bringing Brian onto the show? Was there

952
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: a conference? There was a major conference, many conferences, conferences.

953
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: So for season nine, John and I were producers. We

954
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: were given those titles because we were brought in to

955
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: really discuss the Jim Pam arc of the final season,

956
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: and so we spent a lot of time up in

957
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: the writer's room talking about all the beats of that

958
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: story and what it would be. I did many on

959
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: camera auditions with various Brian's to be the boom operator,

960
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: and then many discussions about who exactly it should be

961
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: there was this one actor who was just phenomenal, who

962
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: just looked so much like John Krasinski that we had

963
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: a whole discussion about whether or not he should look

964
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: too much like John Krasinski, if that would feel like Pam,

965
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and like all this stuff,

966
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: and so anyway, I liked that storyline. I thought it

967
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: was really interesting because another part of season nine was

968
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: that we were going to release the documentary that you

969
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: were going to see how it affects these people's lives

970
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: for them to see themselves in a documentary, And I

971
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: think that's really great closure for the show as well. Perfect. Yeah,

972
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: I think it was an underrated ending of the show.

973
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: I felt like Greg very clearly had a story that

974
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: he wanted to tell. Yeah, And I think that when

975
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: you're live that your anticipation. There's almost nothing that can

976
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 1: meet your expectations. But I think if you go back

977
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: and you watch it, you see just the brilliance of

978
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: how he tied it all up. Yeah, truly. When did

979
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: you find out that Steve was coming back for the finale?

980
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: Did you know early on? I feel like I almost

981
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: always knew because John and I had been up in

982
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: the writer's room talking about the finale, and we were

983
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: sworn to secrecy. So I feel like I knew for

984
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: a pretty long time, and I knew that there was

985
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of trickery going on that he was not

986
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: written into the final script. At the final table read,

987
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: there was a scene between Dwight and Steve, but it

988
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: was written between Dwhite and Creed, and Creed read the

989
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: lines at the final table read, and that was because

990
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: they did not want anyone at the network to know

991
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: that Steve was coming back. It was a huge secret.

992
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: They didn't want NBCPR to like, yeah, to please it

993
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: yea and to ruin the surprise of Steve being in

994
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: the finale. Yeah. What's your memory from that were? Do

995
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: you more laughy or cry? Like in the table reads? Oh?

996
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: I think I cried a little bit every single day.

997
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: I was a crier at the table read. I was crying.

998
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: That was really emotional that last table read. Chris Workman,

999
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: our camera operator assistant, took a photo of that last

1000
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: table read that Angela has blown up in her house

1001
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: on her wall. That is fantastic of that last moment

1002
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: right after we said the last line, and then I

1003
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: remember that Pam has the last line of the show,

1004
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: and they had originally scheduled it so that that would

1005
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: be the very last thing we shoot, and I think

1006
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: it was John or some other people said, oh, man, well,

1007
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: we don't all want to be wrapped, and then Jenna

1008
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: has this talking head and Greg said something like, oh yeah, yeah,

1009
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: we gotta have the last scene be with everybody. And

1010
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: after I finished my talking head, we shot the b

1011
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: roll of me taking the picture off the wall and

1012
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: all of us walking out the door. And we did it,

1013
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how many times, five or six, but

1014
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,439
Speaker 1: we would take the thing off the wall and all

1015
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: walk out, and then we would all stand off camera

1016
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: by the elevator, all of us, many of us crammed

1017
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: by this elevator, and there would be this moment where

1018
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: we would wait to see if they were going to

1019
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: say cut going again or cut that's a rap. I'm

1020
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: getting choked up just thinking about that, because those seconds

1021
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: of waiting, and every time I just wanted them to

1022
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,479
Speaker 1: say cut going again, because I knew when they said

1023
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:43,439
Speaker 1: that's a rap, that that was a rap. That was it.

1024
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: I'd never shoot the office again. And when they said

1025
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: that's a rap, I just burst into tears and started

1026
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: hugging the closest people that I could find, and it

1027
01:03:54,720 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: was really it was just really, really crazy and emotional. Yeah,

1028
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: will you play that. I thought it was weird when

1029
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 1: you picked us to make a documentary, But all in all,

1030
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: I think an ordinary paper company like dunder Mifflin was

1031
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: a great subject for a documentary. There's a lot of

1032
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point

1033
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: to me? That's that's what Greg thinks it was about.

1034
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: That there's a lot of beauty and ordinary things. What

1035
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: do you think it was about, Oh, Greg Daniels, I

1036
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: think that's what it was about. Yeah, I do. I also,

1037
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: I always thought selfishly, because it was my job to

1038
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: view the show through my character. It's not lost on

1039
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: me that when Pam was ready to break free of

1040
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: dunder Mill when the show ended, So I always kind

1041
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: of thought it was the journey of a girl becoming

1042
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: a woman, finding herself going out into the world. When

1043
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 1: we meet her, she's trapped behind this desk and she

1044
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: sort of slowly moves to sales and then finds the

1045
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: man she loves and starts this family, and then when

1046
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: she's really ready, she really fights against leaving and then

1047
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: when she's ready to go, it's all over because the

1048
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: documentary doesn't stop when Michael leaves, so it's not really

1049
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: a documentary about Michael Scott. You know, they decided to

1050
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: stop making the documentary when Pam leaves. That's so interesting.

1051
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: Do you think The Office could be made today? No,

1052
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it could. Why. Well, I don't know

1053
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: if it could be made today. It's a good question. Well,

1054
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: first of all, something I want to point out, or

1055
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: a question I want to ask you is people always

1056
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: ask us if we're all really friends in real life,

1057
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: and I don't even think saying that we're friends in

1058
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: real life accurately communicates how deeply I feel for you

1059
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: and everybody. It's like a love of family, Like I

1060
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: can't explain it. Do you think if we'd made this

1061
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: show in the age of smartphones and whatnot, that we

1062
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: would be as deeply connected? Like don't you think like

1063
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: the circumstances that's of us being trapped on that set

1064
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: for the first season with no working computers, no phones,

1065
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: no internet, nothing, just a troop of actors and artists

1066
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: trapped in a room for twelve hours a day playing.

1067
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: We ever absorbed ourselves and our phones or emails or

1068
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: other work or anything. And I think that that lent

1069
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: itself to part of the magic. And I just wonder

1070
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: if if you tried to put us all in a

1071
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: room today, I don't know, wouldn't we just have our

1072
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: phones and our desks? I think that maybe, I don't know,

1073
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I think that we for sure. What I think

1074
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: is we were a collective group of people with differing

1075
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: backgrounds and experiences and training. It was like we were

1076
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: an old time theater troupe, yes stuck together. And we

1077
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,919
Speaker 1: weren't all famous. No, we came from a place of

1078
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: just wanting to do good work. Well. When Lee and

1079
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: I got married, I had invited a girlfriend of mine

1080
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 1: that I'd gone to high school with from Saint Louis,

1081
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: and she was so excited to come to the wedding

1082
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: and she said, are they're going to be famous people there?

1083
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 1: You know? And I said, no, not really, We're not

1084
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: really friends with a lot of famous people, you know.

1085
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: And then she's like, well, are the cast members from

1086
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: the office going to be there. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah,

1087
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: there'll be there, and she was like, well they're famous,

1088
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot. But

1089
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: even now today, I don't think of us that way.

1090
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: I still always think of us as the people in

1091
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: the room before anyone cared or anyone knew who we

1092
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: were totally and so being on that journey together as well,

1093
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: I think really bonded us. But I don't know if

1094
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: we could make the show today. It's really hard to say.

1095
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: It was such a moment in time. Can you make

1096
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: a show today with total unknowns? I don't know. Silicon

1097
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: Valley kind of, there's other shows. Well, let me ask,

1098
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: why do you think the show is more popular now

1099
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: than it was when WIT was on. My answer is

1100
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 1: very simple. The show is excellent. It's it is absolutely

1101
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: brilliantly executed, and it holds up because it's just that good. Really.

1102
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: But you know, it's funny. I started this podcast with Angela, Yes,

1103
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: where we watch an episode of the Office. We started

1104
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 1: from the beginning and Office ladies, yes, yes, we break

1105
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: it down. This was not my this is not a

1106
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: plug moment. We were about to go there in a minute,

1107
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 1: but anyway, go ahead. Now. What I was going to

1108
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: say is Angela and I are doing this podcast and

1109
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: we have to watch an episode of the Office, and

1110
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: then we discuss it. So I've been watching the show

1111
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Had you watched the show since

1112
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: they aired? No, you had not. I had seen a

1113
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: few here and there. I had seen the Dinner Party.

1114
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: I had I had been in a trailer on a

1115
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: job and I had a teeny tiny television mounted to

1116
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: the wall of my trailer. It was so small. She's

1117
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: not joking right now. She just held up her fingers

1118
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: and showed three inches. I don't think the tele now,

1119
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: it's more like five inches. It was smaller than a

1120
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 1: laptop screen. It was very tiny, Okay, and it's so

1121
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: I was, So that's what she said. I was so

1122
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: tickled by it that I took a picture and I

1123
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: sent it to Steve and John and Ed and Angela

1124
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: and all of us who had been in that scene

1125
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: where we were laughing so hard at Michael's tiny flat

1126
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: screen TV. And then that made me want to watch

1127
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: that episode. So then I went and watched the Dinner

1128
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: Party episode, and then a few examples of things like

1129
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 1: that where you're flipping through when you an episode comes

1130
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: on or something like that. But no, I have not

1131
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: seen most of these episodes since they aired, right, So

1132
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: it's been really cool for me. And I have to say,

1133
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: I really get why people are so excited about the show. Like,

1134
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: as I watch it again, I'm really watching it almost

1135
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: as a fan. Yes, And it's weird that I'm on

1136
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 1: it in some ways. When I'm watching myself, I've always

1137
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: thought it was oh really, Ran, I always thought it

1138
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: is that a fact. I don't know. But before I

1139
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: started doing that, I was on Greg to do a

1140
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,480
Speaker 1: reunion special or revive the office in some way, selfishly

1141
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: because I just want to work with all you all again,

1142
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: and because I know Steve has a really good idea,

1143
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, let's get Steve's idea going. Come on, Greg,

1144
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: come on, Greg, you got to do it. Well. Now

1145
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: that I've been rewatching the show, I wrote Greg and

1146
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: email recently and I said, Greg, Um, I don't think

1147
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: you should reopen the show. It's it is so perfect

1148
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: just as it is, Like, I don't think we should now.

1149
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: I was such a champion for doing it for so long,

1150
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: and now I'm realizing maybe it's exactly perfect just as

1151
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 1: it is, and you don't want to have this weird

1152
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: extra seven years later episode that we made. Um, I

1153
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: don't know. Well, see here you do have. Here's the

1154
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: beauty is I have the ability to edit out whatever

1155
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 1: I say right now. I have no interest in him

1156
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: in doing it in a reunion episode. Yes, but have

1157
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: you heard Steve's idea. It's a great idea. It is

1158
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,679
Speaker 1: a good idea. What if we did it in Scranton, Brian,

1159
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: what if that's the thing that we come back for,

1160
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: is we shoot an episode finally in Scranton. Steve's idea?

1161
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm tempting you discuss it later. But

1162
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: at the same time, I think the show is just

1163
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,520
Speaker 1: perfect as it is. Although we do have an unproduced

1164
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: episode pet Day. There's one episode of the office called

1165
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 1: pet Day. Well it wasn't shot that we never shot. Yes,

1166
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 1: that's right, I have the script. I have let you do.

1167
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: In fact, I signed scripts, obviously to give away to charities. Yeah,

1168
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 1: I have a gigantic box, yeah, of scripts that because

1169
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 1: we would get multiple per week. It was not great

1170
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: for the environment, but we would get more. And they're

1171
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: in my garage in boxes. And I reached in and

1172
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: grabbed one and it was pet Day, pet Day, And

1173
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: I thought, what if I had signed that? And I mean,

1174
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 1: thank goodness. I looked at what the title was. Yeah,

1175
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: because that could have been true. I could have gotten

1176
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: in trouble for that. Well. I said to Greg, what

1177
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: if we do a special where we just do a

1178
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: staged reading of pet Day and we all come together

1179
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: and we read pet Day. But wasn't there a reason

1180
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: we didn't do Pet Day? Animal cruelty? I believe was

1181
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: the reason we didn't do pet Day Because there's like

1182
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: some avil bird death in it or something. I can't

1183
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: remembered up having a bird death and a porcupine in

1184
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: Dwight's desk. We did, and Angela throws a cat and

1185
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 1: a cat and one gets frozen. And no, there's Greg

1186
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: must not like animals. Is there anything else, anything else

1187
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,839
Speaker 1: that you want covered that you feel like we didn't?

1188
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's so much I know, I know,

1189
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: I don't know you did, you were very good. I

1190
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 1: can't think of anything, really. I think something that's really

1191
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: interesting to talk about too, because you talk about how

1192
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: there were like the theater people and the comedians, and

1193
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: then there were the improv people, but there were also

1194
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: all of these ways that we were weirdly connected like that.

1195
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 1: Phyllis and I both grew up in Saint Louis, as

1196
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: did Ken kuoppas he grew up in Belleville, Illinois, which

1197
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,719
Speaker 1: is basically Saint Louis. And then also our ad Rusty

1198
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: Mahmud grew up in Saint Louis. So there were four

1199
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 1: of us Saint Louis AND's. Then there were a bunch

1200
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 1: of those Boston guys. You've got John and Steve and

1201
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: BJ and Mike scher yep. Then the fact like b

1202
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: J and John went to the same high school, Angela,

1203
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: Ed and I went to the same high school. You

1204
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: and Ed went to the same high school. And Angela

1205
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 1: and Oscar were in an improv group together, and she

1206
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:14,919
Speaker 1: walked on set and was like, oh my god, Oscar,

1207
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: you got cast in this. It was a complete shock

1208
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: to her. She'd done improv with Kate. So there were

1209
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: these ways where we'd all been kind of circling each

1210
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: other in this weird way, and then all finally came together.

1211
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: There were so many coincidences in how we were connected totally. Yes,

1212
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 1: I remember shooting a scene for webisodes and was in

1213
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: the annex camera on me. I was shooting a talking

1214
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 1: head and suddenly I saw Ed Helms walking behind the

1215
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: I was like ed, what what are you? And he

1216
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: was there to meet with Greg and about joining the show.

1217
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 1: This was between season two and three. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

1218
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Yeah, I love you, Oh, Brian,

1219
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming. I hope this has been some fun.

1220
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: I could talk for hours about our show. I love

1221
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: that you're doing this because I want to hear what

1222
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: everybody says. Yeah, well there you go. I love you,

1223
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: I love you. Thank you. That is a rap on

1224
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: Jenna Fisher here at the office deep dive, Jenna, thank

1225
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 1: you so much for sharing your time with us. I mean, look,

1226
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to say this to your face, but

1227
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 1: I think that we all know Kevin was the real

1228
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: emotional core of the office. I mean, you can keep

1229
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 1: thinking Pam, but I say it's keV Dog. But you

1230
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: were so great here. I'm gonna let you have it.

1231
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: I'll even forgive the fact that you're a Cardinals Go

1232
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: Dodgers listeners. Thank you so much for joining us, even

1233
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:08,759
Speaker 1: all your Cardinals fans. And get ready because next week.

1234
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 1: Oh it's the big one, folks. It's the big Khona,

1235
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: the big Cheese, the big guy upstairs, Steve Correll. Have

1236
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: a great week. The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and

1237
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer,

1238
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate

1239
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:43,719
Speaker 1: producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia.

1240
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 1: My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our

1241
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend

1242
01:17:50,960 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth o'lansky