1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: all mission control decads. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: want you to know. Ah man, it feels like too 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: many episodes begin somewhere with the pandemic and for the many, 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: many music lovers in the crowd, the four of us included, 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: the pandemic was a bummer if you enjoyed concerts. So 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: many things were canceled, reschedule, postponed, and then postponed again. 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: And uh, not to be too gold bloom about it, 15 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: but life uh found a way. You know, people and 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: artists have slowly returned to juke joints, local venue, stadiums, amphitheaters. 17 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: In an earlier segment, we discussed what happens when these 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: gatherings go wrong, and today's episode dives into one of 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: the most recent crowd disasters. It's a festival called Astro World. 20 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: Here are the facts of First, we had um like 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: a brief clarification or disclaimer, right, I think we mentioned this, 22 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: was it Strange News or was it listener mail? Uh? 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: Was listen to mail? Actually because the listener road ends 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: specifically referring to a video where Travis Scott essentially a 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: sicked a crowd on a a attendant who pulled his 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: shoe off during a crowdsurfing situation. And I think the 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: listener thought, like many folks, that that video was from 28 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: Astro World. In fact, it was from a different concerts, 29 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: one of a few where Travis Scott behaved somewhat, if 30 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: not completely, negligently towards the safety of the crowd. M hmm. 31 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: And when we initially recorded our segment on this incident, 32 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: the most recent incident, we worked with all the credible 33 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: available information at the time, including official statements by Houston 34 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: p D by the Houston Police, and they had claims, 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: both law enforcement and folks on social media, uh that 36 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: people were being non consensually injected with some unknown substance 37 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: or at least that one officer was struck with something 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: and required an NARCAN to be revived. Yeah, and this 39 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: you know. Uh, we were able to go in and 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: record a quick update there because law enforcement changed their 41 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: original story as investigations continued. This was a critical example 42 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: of just how quickly noise and rumors can overtake the facts, 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: especially when a tragedy occurs. But hold the phone, folks. 44 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: For many of our fellow conspiracy realist, the first question 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: might be, what is astro World? Who on earth is 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: this Travis Scott guy? I kept getting mixed up with 47 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: Travis Barker. Yeah, no, not quite the same. Um. Travis 48 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Scott is a massively successful rapper. Um he I guess 49 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: you could kind of categorize him under the sort of 50 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: trap kind of vibes. He's got that like every song 51 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: is auto tuned, kind of like what some people might 52 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: refer to as mumble rap. I guess not really my 53 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: cup of tea. But he is absurdly popular. Um. He 54 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: had a record called Astro World, and that's what the 55 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: tour was called as well, and then it spun off 56 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: into a festival and kind of cultural phenomenon. I think 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: there was even like a like a Travis Scott extra 58 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: value meal at McDonald's for a time. He's a bit 59 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: of a household name. Yeah. Yeah, he's a if you 60 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: know mainstream rap, you've heard of him. He's the guy 61 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: behind hit songs like Sicco Mode and the Sky u. Uh. 62 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: He's a prodigious, controversial musician. We're talking three full studio albums, 63 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: three mixtapes for EPs, two collab albums, um right around 64 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: forty or thirty nine singles, and like you said, his 65 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: music might not be for everyone, but there is no 66 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: denying this guy is massively successful. It's not. His success 67 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: is not limited to hip hop. He's only thirty years 68 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: old and he's already the head of a pretty massive 69 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: financial empire. He's partnered with PlayStation, he partnered with McDonald's. 70 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: To the point about the McDonald's meal, he was actually 71 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: the first person to get one of those themed meals 72 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: since Michael Jordan's Mick Jordan's Burger back in which um, 73 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: I did not I was personally aware of, but I 74 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: understand it's a big deal. I forgot about that entirely. 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: I do remember when that was. And then, of course 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: he created a record label, as you would do. And uh, 77 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: he most infamously now created an annual festival called Astro World. 78 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: It's a huge deal. It's named after his third album, 79 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: Astro World. It's held in Houston, Texas, near the old 80 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: location of a six Flags. Six Flags is a chain 81 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: of amusement parks in the US. They're pretty popular. There's 82 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: one here in Atlanta. Um, I didn't want of you 83 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: guys go a while back to six years. Yeah. Yeah, 84 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: it's got a season. Pove got membership. Me and the 85 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: kid go pretty regularly. We haven't been in a minute, 86 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: but we definitely are planning to go back soon. Yes, 87 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: And this Astro World celebration occurred November. That's when it 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: first was launched because coin signing with that third album. Then, uh, 89 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: it was canceled last year because of the thing we 90 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of this episode, the pandemic Panini. 91 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: I heard someone called it a panini and I thought 92 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: that was you know, Gallows humor. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and 93 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: it came back this year. This November was held on 94 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: November five, or at least that's when this, uh, the 95 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: whole thing took place that we're gonna be talking about today. Uh. 96 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: And you can imagine that people not being able to 97 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: go last year and being pent up quite a bit 98 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: over the course of much of people were very, very 99 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: excited to go to this, and you can also imagine 100 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: that a lot of fans, you know, were able to 101 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: pay the money for a concert like this, but there 102 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: were also some others who maybe didn't have money, who 103 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: also showed up and uh ended up finding their way 104 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: to the concert through one by one means or another. 105 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: And in a weird connection to Atlanta again here the 106 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: Houston Astros had just lost the World Series right before 107 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: Astro World One went on. God have created some tension 108 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: in the year. Yeah, they needed a win, um, and 109 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, look, we're from Atlanta. We understand how disappointing 110 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: sports events can be, even if even even if you 111 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: don't personally, uh find yourself you know, a fan of 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: like football or basketball or what have you. If you 113 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: live in this town, you can feel the collective energy 114 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: any time any team gets close to doing something cool, 115 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: because uh, the stereotype is that they will inevitably at 116 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: the eleventh hour mess it up. So this time broke 117 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: the pattern. Good for Atlanta, Stafford Houston. Uh. People wanted 118 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: that Catharsis psychology plays a very important role in today's episode. 119 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: So tickets for this went on sale in May and 120 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: in the first hour they were sold out completely. A 121 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were gonna be there until the local 122 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: authorities got involved and they said, okay, all right, this 123 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: is not our first rodeo. Only seventy thousand people can go. 124 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: And then as the event got closer, they came back 125 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: and then we've been thinking about it, and only fifty 126 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: thousand people can go because this thing historically will be nuts. Um. 127 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: They were planning for some crazy eventualities. Uh. The mayor 128 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: pointed out that, or the mayor claimed, I should say 129 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: Sylvester Turner, that the city had spent more on security 130 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: for this festival than they had on the security for 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: the entirety of the World Series five officers there, three 132 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: sixty seven for night shift. Hundred sixty one additionally held 133 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: over Live Nation chipped in with almost with like seven 134 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: hundred fifty something security officers. They were planning for things 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: like death, traumatic injury, civil unrest, riots, bad weather, active 136 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: shooters situations. But with all this planning, they did not 137 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: have a contingency for what would happen next. And you 138 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: have to ask at this point, like what why all 139 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: the hubbub bub, Like what made Astro World such a 140 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: potential problem for the city of Houston, Like, why why 141 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: were they so keyed into this? You know, concerts happen 142 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: all the time, right, And I was I was reading 143 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: something pretty interesting in a previous interview with Travis Scott 144 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: where he said he wants his concerts to feel like 145 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: a wrestling match, Like you're going to you know, some 146 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: w w E event where it's just exciting, there's tension 147 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: in the air, there's like, I don't know the best 148 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: way to put it, besides like it's electric, right, So 149 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: when you're there, you feel that energy, and you know, 150 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm I can only assume that he means that for 151 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: the experience of the individual, you just get so hyped, right. 152 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean necessarily that he wants anyone to get 153 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: hurt or for anyone to hurt anyone else. It's just, Uh, 154 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: if you've ever been to a sporting event like that, 155 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: you can understand what he means. Yeah, But I mean, 156 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: like I said at the top, I mean, he does 157 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: have a reputation and there are plenty of examples to this, 158 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: and we'll get into specifics in a bit, and even 159 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: some litigation for amping up the crowd potentially in a 160 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: way that two outsiders would be seen as somewhat tone 161 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: deaf in terms of the overall safety of the folks. 162 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: There UM a little self serving, you know, almost like, hey, 163 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: this is all for me, you know, like you get 164 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: crazy to make me feel good, as supposed to maybe 165 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: being concerned about people's individual safety in this case. I'm 166 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: just mentioning that to say that I think maybe the 167 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: city of Houston was aware because they have done this previously, 168 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: that there would be that level of excitement within the attendees. 169 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you know, honestly think about this, how 170 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: why on earth would somebody at a big concert, uh, 171 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: stop the crowd and like the last thing crowd wants 172 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: to hear is okay, everybody, let's tone it down. Um, 173 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: please consider just quietly clapping. Yeah, or even let's take 174 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: a break, or even let's take a break, Let's take 175 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: a breather, get some granola, some orange slices. That stuff 176 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: doesn't often happen unless something goes terribly terribly wrong at 177 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: the same time. UM. I think it's called now this 178 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: or it's it's one of those um internet kind of 179 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: meme type short news piece websites. UM posted a piece 180 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: um of showing footage of of several quite large artists 181 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: uh noticing themselves that things were going wrong in the crowd, 182 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: that maybe someone had fallen out, or maybe someone had 183 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: gotten hurt, and it was Harry Styles was one. Billie 184 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: Eilish was another. Harry Styles. The crowd was massive, and 185 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: he stopped the concert and very charming Harry styles Ish 186 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: fashion um asked everyone to take a few steps back. 187 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: He said, very cautiously, just take a few steps back, 188 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: make way and always okay, let's take care of each other, guys, 189 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: you know, like make sure this this person needs some water. 190 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: Billie Eilish actually gave her own water to the crowd 191 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: to pass to the individual that had passed out. So 192 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: I'm saying it's not beyond the realm of reason that artists, 193 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, should be keying into this kind of thing. Now. 194 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: Fifth the thousand people not the same as a big 195 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: club concert of like maybe five thousand people. To Matt's 196 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: point in the previous conversation, it's not always easy to 197 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: key on on what's going on, but in this case, 198 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: there were definitely some telltale signs right right, and these 199 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: are professional musicians. Every example that you names Scott included. 200 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: His career had some precedents. Uh. He did have a 201 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: rap sheet. Uh, he had in arguably succeeded to stratospheric 202 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: heights that most most folks in the world of music 203 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: will realistically never attain. Uh. But his controversies propelled his 204 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: career as well. He was arrested in the wake of 205 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: Lollapaluza in because he had encouraged the crowd like, ignore security, 206 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: let's rage bum rush the stage and that could be 207 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: exciting for people in the audience. And then at this 208 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: the same year, Uh, that's in Switzerland at the open 209 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: air festival that's where the shoe attack occurred, and he 210 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: was spitting on the guy who was telling the crowd 211 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: to come up. Uh. And then he was arrested uh 212 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: and for for similar stuff at a concert in Arkansas, 213 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: and he was sued also in seen by a fan 214 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: who was paralyzed after falling from a balcony and being 215 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: dragged on stage a concert in Manhattan. During this concert, 216 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: also he was calling for more people to jump off 217 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: the balcony and uh, saying that the crowd would catch them, 218 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: which is a lot to promise someone it sure is 219 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: in the venue you're talking about in Manhattan. I've never been, 220 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: but I certainly know the types of groups that play there. 221 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: Um it's maybe ten thousand something along those lines, but 222 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: it would be the kind of concert for where an 223 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: artist of that stature would sell out instantly, um, and 224 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: the place would just be absolutely packed to capacity. So 225 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's up to the venue to 226 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: to make sure things are safe for the amount of 227 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: people that are allowable, you know, by law for a 228 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: consort like that. But that also is a situation that 229 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: could lead to this kind of chaos if someone is 230 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: not being responsible. And I know I sound like I'm 231 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: hanging the wrap all on Travis, and that's not the case. 232 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: We're going to get into that too, but I do 233 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: have a bit of a bone to pick, knowing the 234 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: alternative and the way other artists have handled these types 235 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: of situations for sure. Yeah, I think that's and I 236 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: think that's a collective bone to pick there, because again, 237 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: these are these kind of things don't happen because of 238 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: one person, right, Travis Scott has a team. Professional musicians 239 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: have a team, and the venues have a team, and 240 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: production companies have a team. There's it's it's not one 241 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: guy showing up to Houston. It's important to remember that, 242 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: uh November five, just a few weeks ago, Houston's concerns 243 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: would be proven correct. Like you were saying, Matt, on 244 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: the very first night of the festival, November five, disaster struck. 245 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: The aftermath of this chaos would find eight people dead 246 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: that very night, two others dying of injury shortly thereafter. 247 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: More than three people were injured. We don't know exactly 248 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: how many, and at least twenty five of those were hospitalized. 249 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: That sounds like an ending, but that's really where the 250 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: story begins today, because you see, some people are convinced 251 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: this was more than a tragic accident, more than some 252 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: situation spinning out of control. It was, they claim, part 253 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: of a larger, deeper, far more sinister plan. What are 254 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: we talking about. I'll tell you after a word from 255 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy, okay, TikTok conspiracies. 256 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: We have to note that mass casualties are, like everything 257 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: else these days, presented to the public in real time, 258 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: and that's due to the ubiquitous nature of social media. 259 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: Right now, you can find thousands of videos depicting the 260 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: insanity that unfolded during the crowd crush on November five. 261 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: And you know, in some cases they're um mislabeled their 262 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: footage from other concerts, But there's a lot of footage 263 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: of what actually went down at Astra World this year, 264 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: and there's no denying things went very, very, very wrong. 265 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: And if you are the kind of person reads the 266 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: comments on the social media post, whether you're on Instagram 267 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: or YouTube or TikTok, you'll start noticing some strange commentary. 268 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: And because of the way these things are laid out, 269 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: you can see when the comments are posted and how 270 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: popular or unpopular they are. There was an example we 271 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: found in The Guardian that was indicative of the larger 272 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory of play. People are saying, this is in 273 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: a festival, it's a sacrifice. Music industry is demonic and 274 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: collect souls. Paul, can we get a record scratch there? 275 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: It is? Yeah? Wait, so what are people really saying 276 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: This guy Travis Scott is a mainstream musician is secretly 277 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: a devil worshiping high priest working for infernal forces. Well, yeah, 278 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: that's it. That's exactly the claim. And that's um, that's 279 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: a claim that I think people are making in in 280 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: good faith. I don't think people are purposely trying to 281 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: pull the wool over each other's eyes. I don't think 282 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: they're purposely trying to, you know, troll folks or make 283 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: lights of the death of ten people. But it sounds 284 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: pretty out there right when we just say it as 285 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: a sentence, I it does. I would have to say, 286 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: I think I understand where people are coming from, and 287 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: we're going to get into some of the imagery and 288 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: other things that are fueling these theories online. But just 289 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: the cold hard facts of the timeline of what went down, 290 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: and a couple of facts about who actually had control 291 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: of that concert, who could actually shut it down, might 292 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: lead YouTube start to believe this a little bit too, 293 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: even if it is that outlandish, and it doesn't mean 294 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I believe that Travis Scott or the 295 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: people putting on that concert where devil worshippers and trying 296 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: to sacrifice people. But it does mean that there's something 297 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: that went so very wrong. There was a choice essentially 298 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: not to stop that concert by a couple of very 299 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: key people there who are identified by their position, right, 300 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: not by their actual names correct, correct, who represent the 301 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: much larger corporations involved, and you know, we don't have 302 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: to get into the full timeline, but you can go 303 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: to ABC dot com and you can read the timeline 304 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: from nine o two pm when Travis Scott takes the 305 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: stage that night until ten twelve pm when he exits 306 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: the stage. And the reason why we know exactly what 307 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: the that timeline is because Apple Music was live streaming 308 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: this event, so you can actually at the time stamps 309 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: of exactly what was happening from a live stream that 310 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: occurred the entire time he was on stage. And it 311 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: coincides with you know, when that Texas A and M 312 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: student gets on the the camera person's like stand area 313 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: stage area and attempts to get them to stop. The 314 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: first time that Travis Scott stopped the concert early on 315 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: because somebody was passed out in the front, and he 316 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: actually stopped the concert to get that person help. All 317 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: the way down to you know, nine around nine thirty 318 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: when it was declared I think is when it was 319 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: declared an emergency situation, a mass casualty event. Um. So 320 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: like you can really look at all that stuff and 321 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: you can realize that there were two people who were 322 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: who had the authority. Let's let's put it in quotes. 323 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: There to stop the concert, and it was the executive 324 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: producer and the festival director that was It was not 325 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: Travis Scott. It was the people who are actually controlling 326 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: the event. Important point and again not I not identified 327 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: by name, I believe in the case. So, uh, this, 328 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: if you've listened to earlier episodes we've done on things 329 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: like the Satanic panic, you know that mass hysteria can 330 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: compel people to believe any number of things. And when 331 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: this belief occurs, and when belief is contagious, of course 332 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: it's mimetic. Uh, people can fall prey to what's called 333 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: group polarization when she talked about earlier. It's when you 334 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: hang out with people and you you and your confederates 335 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: agree on something, and the more you hang out, the 336 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: more more you agree, and the more extreme your beliefs 337 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: tend to become. So folks began spinning increasingly elaborate stories 338 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: or accusations that can and do have real world consequences. 339 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: Astra World appears to be an example of this. The 340 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: concept of a mass sacrifice exploded across social media. It 341 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: became so prevalent that folks started making compilation videos of 342 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: the juiciest claims. One is one of the most popular 343 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: clips you'll find, and you can this is everywhere. People 344 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: have been sharing this everywhere. It's from someone who says 345 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: they were at Astra World when things went wrong and 346 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: they believed that Scott was doing some what they called 347 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: demonic stuff and continuing his performance as a ritual wild 348 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: people screamed for help and um in in several cases 349 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: passed away. The caption from the poster reads quote, I've 350 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: been so heavily influenced by Travis, but after tonight, God 351 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: really showed me stay away from that. He sacrificed so 352 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: many people's lives tonight it was a living hell. Millions 353 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: of people have watched this and other clips with similar claims. 354 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: This happened within hours and then it got um it 355 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: got much deeper, Like we were seeing collectively a crowdsourced 356 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory growing in real time, much faster than old 357 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: school conspiracy theories where actual conspiracies would would grow an 358 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: evolved like it goes into numerology, like you said, the 359 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: symbols on what the flyer right, Um, that was that's 360 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: a big thing. There's a video about that. Claims about 361 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: that statue that you know, No, I think we all 362 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: talked about this previously too, the really weird looking statue 363 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: with the entrance to the festival. Uh. Someone's like, yeah, 364 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: this looks like a Hieronymous Bosh painting. Um therefore a 365 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: gaping mouth sort of like a bisected uh stylized you know, 366 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: facsimile of Travis Scott's head, Uh, silver and quite large, 367 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: and it does look like the one of the pieces 368 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: from that what's the name of the painting pain Uh, 369 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: It is christ in Limbo and it is essentially a 370 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: depiction of hell type situation where there is a giant, 371 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: gaping mouth that looks like a like a gateway you 372 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: would walk in and out of. And that's very very 373 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: similar to what this Travis Scott piece looks like. Well, 374 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: the stage also featured those looks like mountains almost you 375 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: can imagine that being escape. And people have noted that 376 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: the cylindrical portal from which Travis and other performers enter 377 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: into the like forward facing stage area is like a 378 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: portal to another dimension where perhaps hell. Yeah, and then 379 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: like a numerology example would be the false claim that 380 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: Travis Scott and Drake who appeared uh an unannounced performance. 381 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: Uh were born sixty six months and six days apart. 382 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: And then you'll see other stuff that claims, you know, 383 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: various interpretations or speculation about the use of the number 384 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: six six six. It looks like, if you regard the 385 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: digital landscape, people seemed suddenly convinced that a demons are real. 386 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: Be Travis Scott is either himself a demon or is 387 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: possessed or controlled by them, and see these infernal powers 388 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: compelled him to attempt a ritualistic mass sacrifice for the 389 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: purpose of gathering human souls. That's put bluntly, a pretty 390 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: extraordinary claim, and it needs extraordinary. It's it's similar. It's 391 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: it's very similar to accusations that have been leveled at 392 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: countless musicians who are controversial in their day Metallica, the 393 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, Beyonce, Black Sabbath, jay Z Like. I feel 394 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: like that this is something that happens on a cyclical basis. 395 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 1: There's right now no solid evidence that these accusations against Scott, 396 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: as far as the occult goes, are true. But there's 397 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: something bigger at play here. There are weird things going 398 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: on beyond the curtain, and it should disturb you. This 399 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: is the stuff they don't want you to know. And 400 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: here's the thing. If you pull out with your camera 401 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: from the artists themselves, the ones who would actually take 402 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: a stage like Travis did and look like look at 403 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: the larger music industry as a whole. You can kind 404 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: of see how there are so much money to be 405 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: made within the music industry and not so much any more, 406 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: but there's still a lot of money to be made, 407 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: just it's just not the same kind um but it's 408 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: it kind of goes back to our previous conversation about 409 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: all of the onus not being on Travis Scott himself 410 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: the performer, and then tying that to the ideas of 411 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: devil worship. What if it's not just the performers. What 412 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: if it's the industry itself, the people that control the 413 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: money of it, right, the string pullers of the industry. 414 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: And it made me think about Chuck D's open letter 415 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: that he wrote about this situation. And you can go 416 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: to Instagram look up Chuck D. Of course of Public 417 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: Enemy UH and many other pursuits you can find this 418 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: open letter. You can also find it on Complex and 419 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: a couple other places. But he is just calling out 420 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: the like Live Nation in particular, and Apple and a 421 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: couple of others. I don't know if he specifically calls 422 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: out Apple, but he just mentions that it was not 423 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: on Travis Scott to do the things that were necessary 424 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: to protect people who were there at that con certain 425 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: it was security corners that were cut or something that 426 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: was changed so that Apples cameras could be there to 427 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: live stream the event, which then cut off certain parts 428 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: of the venue and exits so that the flow of 429 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: people was changed at that concert venue. And so if 430 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: you're imagining that, you know, if you believe that this 431 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: was some kind of satanic ritual or sacrifice or whatever 432 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: had demonic forces involved in some way, it wouldn't necessarily 433 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: be the performer on stage, the icon that's up there. 434 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: It may be the people who put the icon on 435 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: stage or created the stage for the icon to perform it, 436 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: right like kind of power behind the throne or power 437 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: behind the microphone here and right now. To be clear, 438 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: there's not any solid evidence that the occult accusations are 439 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: of course, of course, no no, sorry, I don't mean 440 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: to talk about it like that is in it's true. 441 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: I just mean from someone who would believe this kind 442 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: of thing or perhaps does right now listening to this, 443 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: you can see the there are these things that just 444 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: feel weird. Even if you think that's all hogwash, there's 445 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: still something very wrong going on here. Um. And it 446 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: just doesn't need to be completely aimed at the artist. Yeah, 447 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: just from the safety aspect of having so many people 448 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: in one place, uh, and people who came to party. Uh. 449 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: This there is something bigger at play, if not necessarily 450 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: demonic forces. There are, as you said, met, some very 451 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: strange things going on behind the curtain, and that should 452 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: disturb you, folks. This is genuine stuff they don't want 453 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: you to know. So let's do a thought experiment. Imagine 454 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: something like this disaster happened in the nineteen fifties. How 455 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: would we find out about it. Well, if we didn't 456 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: live in Houston, if we didn't have family in the area, 457 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: le'd hear about it through newspapers, the radio, maybe television. 458 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: You would hear it by word of mouth, if you 459 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: had friends and relatives who were connected to the event. 460 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: But this happened in the age of endless media. The 461 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: Internet itself, when you think about it, is a continually 462 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: rushing digital crowd. Everybody is rushing the stage of online 463 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: existence in your mind, all minds exists in a world 464 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: where everyone has a microphone, everyone has a platform. Everyone 465 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: should they so choose, can scream, and these screams can 466 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: race around the world, and they are incentivized. We've talked 467 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: about it in the past. There is a neurochemical high 468 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: for receiving attention, whether we're talking about likes, follows, comments, shares, etcetera. 469 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: It is genuinely addictive. And this is not a ding. 470 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: This is an understandable thing. It can begin to feel 471 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: as if, once enough people like what you say, the 472 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: fact that so many people like it means that somehow 473 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: must be correct, and that gets dangerous pretty quickly. Yeah, 474 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: without sounding to cal As, I think it's time we 475 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: take a look at this theory from a structural angle. UM. 476 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: It's not entirely original, but particularly creative, but it has 477 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: all of the hallmarks of ben you You connected it 478 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: to a remix, you know, kind of a lazy remix perhaps, 479 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: UM or a mad lib. Remember the old pen and 480 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: paper games, not the not the rapper UM who's incredible 481 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: in whose work I need to check out more of 482 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: I've now realized talking to some folks, UM, here here's 483 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: the here's the theory, or here's the the idea that 484 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: there are shadowy forces of control, that they are thirsty 485 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: for blood and sacrifice uh and pain um, and that 486 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: for one reason or another, they have to carry out 487 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: their murderous plans through some collection of rituals or elaborate 488 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: plots employees where any number of small things could uh 489 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: and should go wrong and derail those plans completely. And 490 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: yet somehow they don't. Um, These all powerful caballs could, 491 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: one would think, easily just murder innocent people every single day, 492 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: but instead they have to kind of um cover up 493 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: their their murderous intent through more run of the mill, 494 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: banal kind of events uh, to you know, shield themselves 495 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: from culpability, or to fulfill a ritual of some seraps perhaps. Yeah, 496 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: that's the that's something UM. I cannot remember which episode 497 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: this was. That's something where we hit upon um one 498 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: of the one of the weirdest images which is imagined 499 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: this shadowy cabal is real. And it's like that meme 500 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: of that one guy who suggests a reasonable idea and 501 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: they gets thrown out the window of an office building, 502 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: if you guys remember that one. So like there's a like, 503 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: let's think in terms of that meme, there's a boardroom 504 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: somewhere for the Illuminati or some occults cartel, and they say, Okay, 505 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna murder all these people. What's what's the best 506 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: way to do it? And they get all these rituals 507 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: and these plans, and then someone says, well, we are 508 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: all powerful, we could just you know, blow some stuff up. 509 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: And then the leader whomever that is, turns around. They're like, no, no, 510 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: let's make it weird. Let's make it weird and really complicated. 511 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: That's like, when you think of it that way, it 512 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: seems like it would be It seems counterintuitive that they 513 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: would do this. Astro World bears all the structure of 514 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: a new kind of conspiracy, conspiracy in the age of information. 515 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out a clever um portmanteau 516 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: or something for this, and it was like infospiracies. But 517 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: I think that I think that one stinks. I think 518 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: we can do better. Open to suggestions, but we can 519 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: workshop it. There's here's what happens. Someone post a claim. 520 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: Something extraordinary or terrible happens. Someone post a claim, and 521 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: often it will be speculative. It will be phrased as 522 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: a question, does this look weird to anybody else? Etcetera. 523 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: Or maybe it'll be a comment that's a little just 524 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: further off the map the mainstream conversation. It gets traction, 525 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: it gets attention. The dopamine cycle kicks in. We've all 526 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: experienced it. We have social media. People want that high, 527 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: They want to be part of the conversation. They may 528 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: build on these earlier claims, you know, and all of 529 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: a sudden, it's not just that there was an unnamed 530 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: person seeing at the shortly before the scene of some tragedy. 531 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: It's that there were two. It's that there was something 532 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: else weird that happened with an ambulance on the way 533 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: to blah blah blah. And these claims find support from 534 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: like minded people. Group polarization begins to occur, and they 535 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: become on the same page about increasing bizarre or even 536 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: easily disprovable ideas. This happened in COVID conspiracies. This happened 537 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: most recently, most famously with Q and On. The only 538 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: real difference I would say between Astro World and COVID 539 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: and Q and On is that, in the case of 540 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: COVID and Q and On, we know there are states 541 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: supported propagandists who are spreading the gossip like that's the 542 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: that's the conspiracy there um. It's also crucial note that 543 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: people are these folks were talking about are It's certainly 544 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: not malevolent. You know, nobody woke up and said, I 545 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: can't wait to make something up for more attention. What 546 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: was happening is they were being rewarded on a social 547 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: and chemical level for the behavior. It feels good, it 548 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: feels right. Isn't that close enough to being true? And 549 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: I think another thing here is that it feels so 550 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: wrong the the whole situation, right You, I think, individually 551 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: want to have something to fully blame, a face of 552 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: the tragedy. And while it could be the performer on stage, 553 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: and to a large part, that's what it has become. 554 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: Or it becomes the venue itself and how it looks sinister, 555 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: or you know, the industry itself because it is profiting 556 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: off of this event. No, you know, no matter how 557 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: many people were injured or died, they still made those 558 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: ticket sales. So it's just it's interesting that it then 559 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: turns into one of the most iconic evil things that 560 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: exists the planet, the devil or demons or you know, 561 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: the underworld in some way or another. Yeah, well said, 562 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: people need tragedy to have a face, Causes need to 563 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: have a face. Things have to be relatable in individual 564 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: humanistic terms. And this we're talking about conformity. Really, we're 565 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: talking about um psychological aspects. We're looking at the horizon 566 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: in a very real way. We're looking at the future 567 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories. We're gonna pause for a moment for 568 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we will return to dive 569 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: into some of the troubling science here. Okay, have you 570 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: guys ever heard of the ash conformity experiment or have 571 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: you ever seen the Star Trek episode that I'm pretty 572 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: sure was based on this where it's like there are 573 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: four lights or whatever. Do you remember that? Actually just 574 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: now getting in the next generation and absolutely loving it. 575 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: But I haven't made it to that one yet. But no, 576 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with this study until digging in for 577 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: this episode. Ben. Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a 578 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: weird one, and it's um one that I've thought a 579 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: lot about and still have a hard time believing. So 580 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: way back, there's this guy with a really cool name. 581 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: His name Solomon ash He gathered fifties students to participate 582 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: in what they were told was a vision test. Fine, 583 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They had to look at 584 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: two pictures. One of them is just like a vertical line, 585 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: nothing remarkable, nothing to write home about. The second picture 586 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 1: as a collection of three lines. They're all of varying lengths. 587 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: One of those lines is the same length as the 588 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: one on the first picture. And all you have to 589 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: do for this vision test, if you're the unwary victim 590 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: of this experiment, is you have to stay out loud 591 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: in front of a group which line on the second 592 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: picture matches the line on the first picture. The answer 593 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: is cartoonishly obvious, because you know you can see them 594 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: and if you pull up, if you pull up those 595 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: like slides they use. There's a good article on simple 596 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 1: psychology about this. You're not going to be fooled. You're 597 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: gonna instantly know which line matches. But here's how they 598 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,479 Speaker 1: rigged to the game. They not everybody was coming into 599 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: this blind. As a matter of fact, only a few 600 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: people were. The rest of the people who were taking 601 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: this group vision test had already been told in advance 602 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: that they would unanimously agree that one of the like 603 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: one line it was too short or too long was 604 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: the matching line. So what does a person do when 605 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: they're confronted with that kind of incorrect social consensus. Over 606 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: the course of twelve different trials, two thirds of people said, oh, okay, 607 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: I'll go with the group opinion. Two thirds. Even though 608 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: it's incorrect in the simplest terms, I still like, I 609 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: would want to be in the room for that. You know, 610 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: I wonder what, like I think of all our friends, 611 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: our family, I wonder what they would do. Can we 612 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: apply that number to other populations? Do like, well, two 613 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: thirds of the people you know, just go along with 614 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: something because it's group opinion and it's rewarding to be 615 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: part of a group. Well, it's not necessarily that it's 616 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 1: rewarding to be a part of the group. It's dangerous 617 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: or it could be bad if you've diverged from the group, right. 618 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,959 Speaker 1: I think that was some of the main conclusions, specifically, 619 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: because they placed, like, if you imagine it's a line 620 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: of six people, right, they placed the control person the 621 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: only one who wasn't in on the game right towards 622 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: the end, So they would answer like last or second 623 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: to last, So you have this, you know four people 624 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: before you say the wrong answer, say the wrong answer, 625 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: say the wrong answer, say the wrong answer, and it 626 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: gets to you. If you say the right answer, you're 627 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: the weird one. And and that it's that social pressure 628 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: of like you said, conformity. But it's also at least 629 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: I think from the conclusions that they didn't want to 630 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: be ridiculed or made to be the weird one amongst 631 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: this group of people they are going to be with. 632 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: And we shall also point out the folks who are 633 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: in on the game are saying the wrong answer in 634 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: a really confident way, like they maybe maybe like thoughtful, 635 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: like I'm treating this seriously, but definitely signaling that they 636 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: have come to the correct conclusion. And it's kind of 637 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: silly that this is even a question. So how does 638 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: this apply to astro world? Well, Uh, conformity comes into 639 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: play like Q and on in COVID theories. Uh, there 640 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: there's another important distinction here. The group is a little 641 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: bit different the group of people who are being told 642 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: to decide the length of the line here. Uh, they're 643 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: busting that demographic stereotype of old school conspiracy theory. You know, 644 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: these aren't folks locked away in a basement in their midstick. 645 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: He's obsessed with minute details surrounding JFK's death. These are, 646 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: for the most part, pretty young folks. We're talking about 647 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: the astral world conspiracy theory, the folks that Corporate America 648 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,399 Speaker 1: calls digital natives, the folks who were renowned for having 649 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: expertise of familiarity with all things online. So it would 650 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: seem maybe from that perspective that these would also be 651 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: the people most capable of applying critical thinking, of parsing 652 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 1: the fact and fiction, or at least figuring out what 653 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: was probably not true. So, after all, folks from Generation 654 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: Z who were born after typically um, they share a 655 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: pretty common mistrust in traditional institutions and power structure, which is, 656 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty smart move, um, so good, good, 657 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 1: good on them, Good on you, gen z UM, And no, 658 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: that did not happen. They were first against the wall 659 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: when the conspiracies started flying um. And that's say a 660 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: mistrust if things like mainstream media drove these users to 661 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: dig in themselves and learn about the world entirely from 662 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: social media, which can be a beautiful thing, but it 663 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: also can be a terrible thing because we know how polarizing. 664 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: It can be even for people that are smart, and 665 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: we know how things that are presented as fact often 666 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: have an agenda or are just outright falsehoods um. And 667 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: So while this is not what you would consider traditional media, 668 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: it is something that very much deserves the same level 669 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: of rigor and inherent mistrust as those old forms of media. 670 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: And I think you know, zoomers are kind of just 671 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: now maybe starting to realize that or act accordingly, um, 672 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: but it hasn't fully caught up yet. Yeah, I mean 673 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: it's like this to that excellent point from earlier, Participating 674 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: in these collective stories can feel rewarding, but you're absolutely right, Math, 675 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 1: there's a flip side. It can punish people for standing 676 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: against the narrative and it's very frightening, understandably, so for 677 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: a lot of folks to be that single voice of 678 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: dissent takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot 679 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: of um confidence, and it doesn't always work out. It 680 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: can make you the enemy, it can make you the 681 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: op It can make you the outcast or the next target. Right, 682 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,439 Speaker 1: nobody wants to be the person who doesn't get it. Uh, 683 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: So we know that there are going to be more 684 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,240 Speaker 1: details emerging about what went wrong and how I can't 685 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: recommend that timeline enough. We also know that these were 686 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: real deaths. These people are gone. Did Travis Scott purposely 687 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: court controversy? I mean yes, of course. It is like 688 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: one of the one of the number one things you 689 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: can do for a career in music. Be remarkable, be extraordinary, 690 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: be the thing people talk about. Did he purposely planned 691 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: for people to die? That is so incredibly unlikely, though 692 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: at this point it's it's possible to imagine, or it's 693 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: reasonable to imagine that he and the venue and management 694 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: anticipated some injuries. You know, well there there's just a 695 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: certain amount of callousness that I think goes along with 696 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: that level of like attention seeking where you're you know, 697 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: you could convince yourself, oh, it'll be fine, this is 698 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: punk rock, you know, or like like like maybe sure 699 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: they know what they're getting into and they're getting into 700 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: that mashpit that they might get banged up a little bit, 701 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: but they'll make it home. Everything will be fine. Of course, 702 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: nobody expects anyone to die. Um, but when you get 703 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: into that situation where you were just feeding what is 704 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: already a crowd that's worked up into a frenzy. Um. 705 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: And then you pair that with some circumstances that were 706 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: not optimal. And then as we know, we're less than 707 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: optimal because of other kind of attention seeking reasons like 708 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: streaming on Apple and all of that. Um, it just 709 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: became a perfect storm. Uh. And then you know, so 710 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: what this, what this shows us is the takeaway I 711 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: think here ultimately is that something has to change. There 712 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: has to be more accountability, you know, um, especially given 713 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: where we are with even like concerts coming back. You know, 714 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: this is a privilege to be able to go and 715 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: see your favorite artists. Um. And you know, it's like 716 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: people are requiring vaccine cards and or proof of negative 717 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: COVID tests and things like that. I fully support that, 718 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: even if you're not on the vaccine train. At the 719 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: very least, no one wants to create a mass, super 720 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: spreader event. So I think we should have our eyes 721 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: open by this, paired with you know, the inherent pitfalls 722 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: of returning to life where we're all hanging out in 723 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,280 Speaker 1: big crowds. And you know, I can't speak for you guys, 724 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: but I have a have a pretty strong suspicion that 725 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm not the only one who tries to avoid crowds 726 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: and instantly when forced into a crowd, clocks all possible 727 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: points of egress and ingress, like how do we first 728 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: question in the crowd is like, okay, if this does 729 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: what crowds sometimes do, how do I get out? Um? 730 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: And you know these are enormous operations, but there does 731 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: have to be more safety. You can't put people in 732 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: a box canyon situation. One way out is not good enough. 733 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: And did Travis Scott orchestrate some ritual to appease supernatural 734 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: forces that have not once been clearly proven to exist 735 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: almost certainly not or at least um to be careful 736 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: about how we say that. There's been no evidence showing 737 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: that to be genuinely the case. But the case of 738 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: astral World does show us something that we know is 739 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: real and that we know is dangerous, and it's this. 740 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,879 Speaker 1: Conspiracy theories are evolving, not just in a meta way 741 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: hashtag no Facebook conspiracy. The evolution of conspiracy theories is 742 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: evolving the way in which they come to be, And 743 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: there are going to be more like this, Bigger claims, 744 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: bigger real world consequences, bigger dopamine surges on the way 745 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,280 Speaker 1: and for some of the folks who know what's coming 746 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: down the line. This can present enormous um unclean, unethical 747 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,359 Speaker 1: opportunities like this could be weaponized, you know what I mean? 748 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: You can you know, you can bring the game of 749 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: social media to have posts popping up more often in 750 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: the algorithms. Right, So if someone had the right access 751 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 1: and the right influence, then they could reach and affect 752 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: a lot of minds. I just don't know where it's 753 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: gonna go. Where does it end? Well, it's an interesting 754 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: point you made earlier than about controversy being one of 755 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: the best things you can do as a musician for 756 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: your career. I wonder how that plays for other people 757 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: other things, like a viral post because of some controversy. 758 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: Is that necessarily the most negative thing that could happen? 759 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: Or is that, you know, when a conspiracy forms around 760 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: something now in real time? I wonder what that does 761 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: from a pr perspective, for an event or an individual 762 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: or you know, I don't know, a book, maybe something 763 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: like that. It feels like it could be something beneficial 764 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: for from a money perspective because of cliques and interest. Yeah, 765 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: and unfortunately it's a cold world. Those are conversations that 766 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: people have even if they don't have them in public tragedy. 767 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: I think one of the other important points brought up 768 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: here is the tragedy needs of face. People need someone 769 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 1: to um to blame, someone to heap approprium and consequences on. 770 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: But with this, yes, the one thing we can conclusively 771 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 1: say is right now, we looked at the evidence. We 772 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: did not collectively find like hard credible stuff that this 773 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: musician is deep in the world of the occult. We 774 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,239 Speaker 1: found arguments that are based on interpretation, right. We found 775 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: arguments that are based on um perception of symbols and 776 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: some other stuff, but we didn't as of yet find 777 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: anything indicating infernal motivations. I mean, it's also like those 778 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: kinds of symbols are appropriated all the time because they're cool. 779 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: They're inherently neat looking and vibe. You know. It's like 780 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: I've maybe mentioned it before, Like my daughter likes to 781 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: wear like slipknot T shirts and she has like a 782 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: pentagram uh necklace. Is she a devil worshiper? Absolutely not, 783 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: But she gets, you know, messed with a lot of 784 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: times by bullies at school who accuse her of such things. 785 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: And I mean, I think We know that a lot 786 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: of like death metal bands are black metal bands that 787 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,720 Speaker 1: use this kind of imagery. They don't necessarily go home 788 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: and light a candle and sacrifice a goat to the 789 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,760 Speaker 1: dark lord. It's just like it's all the it's theater, 790 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,399 Speaker 1: you know, and and and what is Travis Scott if 791 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: not a theatrical performer, you know. I think people reading 792 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: into that kind of stuff and pairing it with a 793 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: tragedy like this is is kind of silly, you know. 794 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: It's it's it's missing the point. This is an issue 795 00:47:54,239 --> 00:48:00,359 Speaker 1: of of safety and perhaps um irresponsibility, you know, from 796 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,839 Speaker 1: the perspective of being an artist who is should be 797 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: in some ways the very least in the corner of 798 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: his fans, of their fans, uh, and not doing things 799 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: to actively put them in danger. I don't think it 800 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: requires any kind of nefarious dark intent, you know. Yeah, 801 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: And the people who have been speculating about this stuff, 802 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: posting this stuff, obviously they are not trying to be 803 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: disrespectful to the memory of the victims. Uh, They're not 804 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: trying to hurt other people. Uh. This is just an 805 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 1: example of how quickly beliefs can evolve, unless, of course, 806 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: that is you have evidence that has not made it 807 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: to the public yet and you would like to share 808 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: it with us. We want to know what you think. 809 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: We want to know what this conversation leads to in 810 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: the future, so give us your thoughts. We try to 811 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: be easy to find online. Oh yes, and we are. 812 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,120 Speaker 1: You can find this on the social media channels of 813 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: the day. Facebook, Twitter, Um and YouTube. Particularly pay attention 814 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 1: to that YouTube channel. We put out new videos associated 815 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,919 Speaker 1: with every one of our fresh episodes every week, where 816 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,239 Speaker 1: you can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff on 817 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff Show. I want to give us 818 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,719 Speaker 1: a call, you can do that too, that's write. Our 819 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: number is one eight three three st d w y 820 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,280 Speaker 1: t K. 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