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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known facts

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Speaker 1: behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows and more. We

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Speaker 1: are your bee hived brethren of British soul diva details. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know we're no good, but you gotta love us anyway.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jordan run Tug. I'm Alex Hegel. Holy buddy,

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Speaker 1: you give me that one. Wow came out, You're coming

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Speaker 1: out swing, coming in hot, you know what. I've got

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Speaker 1: so much love and excitement for this one. We are

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Speaker 1: paying tribute to my favorite album of the twenty one century.

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Speaker 1: And don't just take my word for it. The Guardian proclaimed,

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Speaker 1: it is such a few years back. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: Amy Winehouse's master work Back to Black. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I've said many times on this show that I wasn't

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Speaker 1: really connected to a lot of contemporary pop culture when

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Speaker 1: I was younger, but this, this I led into my

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Speaker 1: heart the moment I heard It's after it was released

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Speaker 1: in two thousand six, and I hold it close to

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Speaker 1: this day. It's an album steeped in heartbreak. After Amy's

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Speaker 1: obsessive five story Fire of a relationship with Blake Fielder.

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Speaker 1: Civil came to an end the first time around, and

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Speaker 1: Amy burned bright for such a short time. She was

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Speaker 1: only a truly global artist for about four years, from

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Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand seven into her death in

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Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand eleven. But her star burns bright.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Heigel, did she affect you in

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Speaker 1: the same way that she affected me? And not deeply emotionally,

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Speaker 1: But I do like her music. I mean, for me,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit more about the dap Kings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, Amy's great, man, what do you

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Speaker 1: say about her? You know, like real She's a real

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Speaker 1: kind talent. Yeah, she was a real one and a

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Speaker 1: very troubled person. And you try not to let the

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Speaker 1: ladder overshadow the fourth you know, but it can be tough.

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Speaker 1: Sorry I was depressing. No, I We're gonna try. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna try not to let that be the the tone

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Speaker 1: of this episode. But I know you're absolutely right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: She will forever be one of my all time favorites,

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Speaker 1: and people far more eloquent than I have praised her

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Speaker 1: as a once in a generation voice for multiple reasons.

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Speaker 1: In terms of her lyrical point of view, which brought

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Speaker 1: a hip hop swagger into vintage American soul and a

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Speaker 1: dose of twenty one century cynicism into songs that really

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Speaker 1: could have otherwise almost been jazz standards. And then, of course,

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Speaker 1: the thing that's so obvious that we haven't even bothered

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Speaker 1: to mention it yet, her singing, which borders on the

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Speaker 1: supernatural as far as I'm concerned. Um. I once had

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Speaker 1: the great privilege of spending an afternoon with another late

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Speaker 1: great Ronnie Specter of the Fabulous Ronetts and Uh. She

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Speaker 1: was a fellow member of the bee Hive sisterhood, ladies

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Speaker 1: with big hair, big voices, and big spirits who were

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Speaker 1: mistreated by small men in their lives. And the topic

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Speaker 1: of Amy Winehouse came up, and Ronnie said that Amy's

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Speaker 1: talent was a pretty strong argument that singing came from

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Speaker 1: the soul, and really Amy had a very old soul.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise there was really no explaining how that sound came

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Speaker 1: out of that body. And I couldn't help but smile

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Speaker 1: then and now to think how Amy would have enjoyed

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Speaker 1: hearing that from one of her idols. She loved Ronnie Specter, Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say, I'm inclined to agree with Ronnie.

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Speaker 1: After Amy's death, she was praised by so many, including

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, who described her in seventeen as quote the

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Speaker 1: last real individualist around which I like Adele thanked her

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Speaker 1: for paving the way for her and other neo soul divas,

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Speaker 1: and Lady Gaga echoed the sentiment of fans all over

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Speaker 1: the world when she tweeted, I remember feeling not alone

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Speaker 1: because of Amy. She lived jazz and she lived the blues,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's the real reason why Amy's legacy

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Speaker 1: would continue to endure. It's more than just her talent.

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Speaker 1: How did you thank someone who got you through so

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Speaker 1: many broken hearts? And that's what she did for me,

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Speaker 1: and I know I'm not alone. The BBC wrote an

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Speaker 1: article a few years back suggesting that Back to Black

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Speaker 1: was the millennials version of I Will Survive, which I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if I totally agree with the comparison, but

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Speaker 1: I see what they were going for. Amy's producer and friend,

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Speaker 1: Mark Ronson probably summed it up best. The pain that

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Speaker 1: she expressed helps so many people get through their pain.

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Speaker 1: She showed us the darkest part of herself and somehow

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Speaker 1: did it in a way that made people smile. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a neat trick. She was so brutally honest

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Speaker 1: and so wickedly funny, especially when it came to her

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Speaker 1: own self assessments. The most enduring description of her, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, came from a Newsweek profile in two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: which described her as quote a perfect storm of sex kitten,

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Speaker 1: raw talent, and poor impulse control. Yeah, curate reading that

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Speaker 1: is like a twenty year old I remember thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 1: dream girl. She was flawed, but there was a strength there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think of the title of her

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Speaker 1: posthumous record, Lioness. That always seemed like the word to

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Speaker 1: describe it. And you know, in a strange way, I

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Speaker 1: think that Amy Winehouse gave hope to the rest of

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Speaker 1: us imperfect people to try to be better, to try

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Speaker 1: to find our own special thing, whatever it may be,

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Speaker 1: that gives us grace even when we're feeling like a

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Speaker 1: mess in every other area of our life. She wore

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Speaker 1: her heart on her sleeve, and you couldn't help but

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Speaker 1: love her. And it's tempting to think of her as

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Speaker 1: a friend because she seemed to trust the audience as

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Speaker 1: one and when she died, I mourned her as a friend.

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Speaker 1: The silly as that sounds, it's probably the only celebrity

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Speaker 1: death that I actually shed a tear over, and not

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Speaker 1: just selfishly for all the music that we never got

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Speaker 1: to hear from her, but because she was someone who

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Speaker 1: seems so vulnerable and sensitive, and you've got the sense

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Speaker 1: that she seemed to know the value of feeling loved

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Speaker 1: and feeling peace, and you hoped against hope that she'd

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Speaker 1: find it. And uh, and I think that her death

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Speaker 1: was a shocking wake up call. I mean, this was

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Speaker 1: the Arrow and Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton and Britney

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Speaker 1: Spears were all struggling publicly, and they were basically just

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Speaker 1: punchlines for late night comedians and tabloids, and everyone just

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Speaker 1: sort of conveniently ignored the fact that these were life

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Speaker 1: or death situations, which is what made Amy's death so

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Speaker 1: much more perversely tragic. It just seems so obvious, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing about it that was a

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Speaker 1: surprise whatsoever. But somehow you didn't actually think it would

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Speaker 1: end that way. I know I didn't, And the cognitive

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Speaker 1: dissonance with that was just so strange. And I think

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Speaker 1: that her death went a long way and ensuring that

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Speaker 1: people struggling in the public eye aren't covered that way

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Speaker 1: by the media. Ever. Again, we really, I mean not we,

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Speaker 1: you and I. We were not part of that infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: But what my first couple of years was, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I didn't write mean things, but I remember that

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Speaker 1: was part of the environment. Yeah, I mean just that

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Speaker 1: whole era. We we really failed a generation of women

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Speaker 1: who obviously and clearly needed help, and we're turned into

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Speaker 1: ongoing punchlines. There's a book called train Wreck The Women

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Speaker 1: We Love to Hate, Mock and Fear and Why by

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Speaker 1: Sadie Doyle, which is really sting and basically is uh

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Speaker 1: a cultural history of how female celebrities are covered in

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Speaker 1: the media. These like the women I mentioned, the Paris Hilton's,

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Speaker 1: the Lindsay Mohan's, the Britney Spears and and Amy Winehouse.

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Speaker 1: And then she also does this really interesting thing, these

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Speaker 1: interstitial chapters where she goes back in time and writes

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Speaker 1: about famous women in history as if they were being

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Speaker 1: covered by a you know, era blogger. Uh. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's a really interesting book. I encourage folks to check

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Speaker 1: it out. It's really interesting. But I mean taking it

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Speaker 1: more personal. My one way bond with Amy was forged

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Speaker 1: in January two thousand nine. Uh, in order to get

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Speaker 1: over a failed relationship situation, I'd enrolled in a six

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Speaker 1: month study abroad program in London in hopes study change

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Speaker 1: of scenery would help me get over my broken heart.

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Speaker 1: But here's a tip. If you're trying to get over

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Speaker 1: a heartbreak, don't go to a place where you know

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Speaker 1: no one in frigid January where there was about five

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Speaker 1: hours of sunlight a day, So yeah, that wasn't great.

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Speaker 1: And I just used to wander London daily, uh, just

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Speaker 1: for hours on end with my iPod playing Back to

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Speaker 1: Black as my soundtrack. And our door was in North London,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that Amy lived a short walk away

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Speaker 1: in Camden, and I had read one of those up

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Speaker 1: All Night with Amy Winehouse rolling Stone Profiles or something where,

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Speaker 1: uh I learned that she had a habit of going

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Speaker 1: outside and welcoming any stray fans in and cooking them

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Speaker 1: burnt toast and tea, and uh, yeah, I just thought

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Speaker 1: that was sweet and sad. I guess she just didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be alone. So I wonder up there during

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Speaker 1: my semester in London and try to find her house

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Speaker 1: and I hope she'd bring me inside. To this day,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you why. I think I just was

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Speaker 1: so bummed out, and her music made it clear that

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Speaker 1: she'd been through something similar, and you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe she could big sister me through it. UM.

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Speaker 1: I also got the sense that maybe she needed friend too.

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Speaker 1: I'm still bummed. I never got to see her then

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Speaker 1: in London, law in concert. Aside from festivals, she really

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Speaker 1: didn't do normal concerts or tours very much after two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven, and even those were spotty just because of

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Speaker 1: her health. One of my treasured possessions is a concert

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Speaker 1: ticket from a show in the fall of two thousand

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Speaker 1: seven that she never got to give UM canceled for

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Speaker 1: some combination of personal and logistical problems. I would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have cashed that ticket in and gone anyway.

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Speaker 1: Enough of my pathetic love note Dammy Winehouse. Let's get

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Speaker 1: into the agony and ecstasy of this wonderful record from

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Speaker 1: the relationship drama and emotional turmoil that inspired it to

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Speaker 1: the renegade band of Brooklyn soul musicians who gave it

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Speaker 1: the groove, the argument that led to her cover of

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Speaker 1: the zoo Toones song Valerie That's on Whips, and how

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Speaker 1: Mark Ronson got any Winehouse to overcome her and the

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Speaker 1: holy hatred of strings. Here's everything you didn't know about

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Speaker 1: Back to Black by Amy Winehouse in two thousand five.

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Speaker 1: Emmy Winehouse was at a cross roads every time. She

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Speaker 1: had released her debut album Frank two years earlier, an

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Speaker 1: album that you could call R and B influenced jazz

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Speaker 1: tunes or jazz influenced R and B tunes. I guess

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of both on there. Have you

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Speaker 1: heard that record? Yeah? It's good. Yeah, I mean Annie was,

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Speaker 1: I mean, no other way to put it. A jazz

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Speaker 1: vocal prodigy. She was singing Sarah Vaughan and Dinah Washington

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Speaker 1: songs in the National Youth Jazz Orchestra as a teenager.

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Speaker 1: And in the Amazing Any documentary by A. Sif Kapaedia,

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Speaker 1: it opens with this amazing home movie of Amy and

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Speaker 1: her tween friends goofing around on her friends fourteenth birthday,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like any other home movie until Amy

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Speaker 1: launches into an impromptu version of Happy Birthday, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like full grown Amy Winehouse, it's crazy again. It

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Speaker 1: gets back to what Ronnie Specter said, this old soul

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Speaker 1: just coming out of this thirteen fourteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: It's insane. And her two thousand three album, Frank, It

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Speaker 1: was a modest hit in the UK and established her

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Speaker 1: as one of the country's most distinctive vocalists and won

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Speaker 1: her quite a few prestigious awards, the Ivor Novello Award,

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Speaker 1: Mercury Music Prize, and was nominated for a brit Award,

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Speaker 1: which is basically the UK Grammys. But Amy, who just

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Speaker 1: turned twenty when it came out, was deeply unhappy with it.

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Speaker 1: She was signed to Simon Fuller's management, and he'd previously

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Speaker 1: overseen The Spice Girls and created the show that American

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Speaker 1: Idol was based on, so he kind of had a

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Speaker 1: whole business of creating cookie cutter pop stars basically, and

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Speaker 1: although he was smart enough not to try to shove

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Speaker 1: into that mold, there was a certain degree of interference

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Speaker 1: in her sound. He hired some songwriters who polished off

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Speaker 1: her really highly personal songs, and Amy was not happy

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Speaker 1: with this, and she was not quite about it. In

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Speaker 1: her interviews speaking about her album Frank, she told The Guardian,

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Speaker 1: I don't have it in my house, before begrudgingly admitting

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Speaker 1: that it isn't. This is gonna be I'm gonna break

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Speaker 1: my my my long held no swearing on this show

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Speaker 1: edict for Amy Winehouse, because otherwise we're not going to

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Speaker 1: be able to get through her interview quotes songs. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in two thousand of our interview with The Observer

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Speaker 1: titled I Love This Charmed and Dangerous, Amy said, something's

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Speaker 1: on this album make me go to a little place

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Speaker 1: that's fing bitter. I've never heard the album from start

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Speaker 1: to finish. That marketing was, the promotion was terrible. Everything

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Speaker 1: was a shambles. It's frustrating because you work with so

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Speaker 1: many idiots, but the nice idiots, so you can't be

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Speaker 1: like you're an idiot and they know they're idiots. Quote

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Speaker 1: machine Amy Winehouse. Uh, there's a priceless interview that you

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Speaker 1: can hear in that Amy documentary I mentioned where this

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Speaker 1: chipper Dutch radio interviewer just toss ues her a softball

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Speaker 1: about you know, hey, how's your new album? What do

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Speaker 1: you think? And Amy just seethes about how pissed she

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Speaker 1: is about the string sounds on the album, especially on

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Speaker 1: the song take the Box, she quote, hey did the

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Speaker 1: guy who did it? And went on and on and

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Speaker 1: on about how she'd never let anyone do that to

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Speaker 1: her songs. Again. We'll talk more about that later. So

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Speaker 1: Frank was a bit flawed in her own eyes, but

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Speaker 1: it did well enough to mean that the public and

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Speaker 1: her label eagerly anticipated her follow up. Hilariously, I think

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Speaker 1: she still might have been working as a journalist actually

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Speaker 1: at this time, at the World Entertainment News Network. We

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Speaker 1: used to get photos from them when I was at

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Speaker 1: VH one back in ten. Yeah, it's funny, for all

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Speaker 1: the years that she was hounded Byzzizzi, that she used

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Speaker 1: to work in the entertainment journalism field. Uh yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: It's so weird. You can kind of hear it in

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Speaker 1: her lyrics though. I mean, she has such a great

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Speaker 1: economy of language that you could almost see being born

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Speaker 1: from her days as a journalist. He was initially considering

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Speaker 1: doing that as a full time career, but by January

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Speaker 1: two five, now that Frank was falling down the charts,

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Speaker 1: she'd quit her day job and was tasked with writing

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Speaker 1: her next album. But it just wasn't happening. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: writer's block was really bad, and by her own admission,

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Speaker 1: she was just hanging out the hub all day, the

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Speaker 1: Holy Arms, which was near her house in the North

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Speaker 1: London neighborhood of Camden, and she just played pool, drank

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Speaker 1: too much and listened to sixties girl groups in motown

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Speaker 1: on the jukebox. And these were the sounds that she

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Speaker 1: loved as a girl, and rediscovering them on the pub

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Speaker 1: juke box pretty much gave her a new direction for

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Speaker 1: her new album. And long before the album Back to

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Speaker 1: Black was released, she was telling the press, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a jazz girl anymore. She's talking to the UK outlet

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Speaker 1: The Sun. She said, these new songs are more accessible

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Speaker 1: than the tracks on frank as jazz is quite elitist.

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Speaker 1: People don't get it. I've been listening to sixties bands

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Speaker 1: and girl groups. There's a lot of bands which are

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Speaker 1: sixties influence at the moment, but I guess I'm the

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Speaker 1: only girl doing it. And then later on she would

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Speaker 1: be followed by the likes of Adele and Duffy, remember

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Speaker 1: Duffy and Joss stone Fill him a Faith and Little Boots.

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Speaker 1: Stuffy was great. Rock Ferry was a great album. Um

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Speaker 1: and of course that's when you start seeing the Ronnie

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Speaker 1: Specter influence coming in for Amy, the beehive hair, the

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra makeup, the mini skirts, and Andy would later say

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Speaker 1: that the bee hive was a pysical manifestation of her insecurities,

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Speaker 1: and whenever she was nervous, she would tell her hairstylist,

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Speaker 1: make a taller, make a taller. I love her so much.

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Speaker 1: So now you have the sound and the style of

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Speaker 1: Back to Black coming to the floor. But she needed

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Speaker 1: the emotional catalyst, and this took the form of one

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Speaker 1: Blake Fielder, civil her boyfriend and frequent drinking buddy during

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Speaker 1: these pub nights out in Camden Town. Black kind of

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Speaker 1: minor role in the music industry is an assistant on

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Speaker 1: music videos and he's generally seen as something of a

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Speaker 1: ne'er do well, a reputation bolstered by the fact that

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Speaker 1: he did prison time for perversion of justice. I was

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Speaker 1: a uniquely UK terminology by misadventure are the two very

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Speaker 1: very uniquely UK terms that unfortunately appear in this episode.

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Speaker 1: I believe he beat up a pub landlord and then

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Speaker 1: tried to pay him to withdraw allegations and leave the country.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, assault and trying to bus we brive a victim.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, anyway, just a real charmer. Yeah yeah. Blake

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Speaker 1: is the man whose name is literally tattooed on Amy's heart,

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Speaker 1: or at least over it. Uh. He's traditionally portrayed as

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Speaker 1: the villain in the Amy Winehouse story, or at least

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Speaker 1: an extremely bad influence. Look. I don't know much about

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Speaker 1: addiction treatment, a relationship, code, dependency, or psychology in general

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Speaker 1: to be able to speak on this in any meaningful

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Speaker 1: or intelligent way, but blaming Amy's troubles squarely on Blake

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Speaker 1: feels like a reductive take in a disservice to both

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Speaker 1: of them. It's like using Mike Love as the scapegoat

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Speaker 1: and the beach Boys from the I'm Happy Went Through. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I worshiped Brian Wilson, but Mike is a

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Speaker 1: less sympathetic character but takes to flowed people, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: The depth of Amy and Blake's codependency was such that,

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Speaker 1: as Amy herself later said, I want to feel what

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Speaker 1: he feels, And when you have two troubled people with

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Speaker 1: addictive personalities, you're basically just magnifying each other's problems. She

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Speaker 1: wanted to feel what he felt, which included crack, cocaine, heroin,

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Speaker 1: and even self harm. They were in the midst of

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Speaker 1: a fight one night when Blake grabbed the bottle and

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Speaker 1: broke it and started cutting his arm, and then Amy

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Speaker 1: grabbed the bottle from him and cut her own arm

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Speaker 1: while looking at him dead in the eye and told

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Speaker 1: him I'll do anything you do, which is chilling. I

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Speaker 1: was a guest on the I Heart podcast Personology a

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Speaker 1: few years back, which was hosted by Dr Gayl Salts,

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Speaker 1: a psychologist, and each episode she would psychoanalyze a historical figure,

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Speaker 1: and we did one on Amy Winehouse together, and her

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Speaker 1: insights were deeply fascinating. If you want to go check

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Speaker 1: that out. There's a great passage from the two thousand

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Speaker 1: seven Rolling Stone profile on Amy that is I think

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Speaker 1: really illustrative of their obsessive love. Wine House has insisted

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of her career that she's a simple girl,

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Speaker 1: crazy in love with her man. Her life, her history,

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Speaker 1: and talent all seemed barely worth talking about when one

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Speaker 1: could talk about Blake, how Fitty is, how perfect for

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Speaker 1: each other they are, We're so in love, We're a team.

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Speaker 1: She Wraps of the Eyes is to me, Blake, Blake, Blake, Blake, Blake, Blake, Blake.

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Speaker 1: It's as if she's putting herself in a trance. A

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Speaker 1: woman named Nicole chimes in, I'm gonna fall in love

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Speaker 1: like Amy. I think I've been in love before. Amy

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Speaker 1: lifts her head. No, No, if you had, you'd be

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Speaker 1: dead because you weren't together right now. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Um I heard that one before. Good Lord, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean again, this is why this album I diet.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that you need to know the backstory

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Speaker 1: to be able to judge the emotional content of a song.

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Speaker 1: I don't, and we talked about that in the Revolver episode.

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Speaker 1: That's the song for No. One on Revolver, which is

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Speaker 1: about the dissolution of a relationship, literally outlines that in

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Speaker 1: the lyrics, and it's devastating. You don't need to know

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Speaker 1: anything about the person who wrote that song in order

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Speaker 1: for that to hit you. In this case with Amy,

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Speaker 1: the lyrics hit you directly. But then when you go

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Speaker 1: a little bit under the surface and you actually learn

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Speaker 1: a little bit about her and her relationships, it just

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Speaker 1: takes on a whole new level. And maybe this is

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Speaker 1: why this is an album that I almost feel protective of.

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Speaker 1: She seems so without skin, just just so raw, just

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Speaker 1: such a raw nerve that went through life that Um

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Speaker 1: what was that Nick Drake documentary solid Are No A

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Speaker 1: Skin Too Few? Which is a documentary on the on

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Speaker 1: the late folk singer songwriter British folks singer songwriter Nick

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Speaker 1: Drake Skin Too Few. It reminds me of of Amy

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Speaker 1: just just I think maybe that's why I and fans

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Speaker 1: I feel such a kinship towards her. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: you want to protect this person in some strange way

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Speaker 1: because the emotions are just so all consuming for her.

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Speaker 1: And uh and you know, as a teenager, late teenager

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Speaker 1: for me, when I discovered her music, that hit home

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Speaker 1: because that's what being a teenagers like. But she never

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Speaker 1: really granted that, I guess, or didn't have a chance to.

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Speaker 1: So this is what we're dealing with. Blake had been

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Speaker 1: dating someone when they met, and at some point in

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Speaker 1: mid two thousand five, he told Amy that he was

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Speaker 1: going back to her, just like the lyrics said, and

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Speaker 1: back to black. Then it got nessie. Amy took revenge

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Speaker 1: by sleeping with his friend and She later explained, I

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Speaker 1: knew it would be the nail in the coffin. I

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Speaker 1: knew that when he found out, he wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. Ever Again, I knew I had

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Speaker 1: to do it because one of us had to finish

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Speaker 1: the other one off, because we just broke each other's

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Speaker 1: hearts repeatedly. When the relationship finished, I went nuts. I

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Speaker 1: was the most reckless ever. I just went mad. I'd

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Speaker 1: look in the fridge and think of him. I'd walk

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Speaker 1: up the stairs and see blood and see him because

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Speaker 1: he used to punch the walls Jesus Christ. As we'll

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Speaker 1: get to later. They would ultimately reunite and get married

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Speaker 1: after the album inspired by their breakup had become a

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Speaker 1: hit all around the world. Coincidence, m well, This emotional

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Speaker 1: trauma had the upside of breaking through Amy's writer's block,

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Speaker 1: and she began writing the bulk of what would be

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Speaker 1: um Back to Black in late two five. She later said,

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Speaker 1: when I sit down and I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: feelings that I can't deal with, that's when I write songs.

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Speaker 1: I've always written songs at points in my life when

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to do except write a song.

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Speaker 1: So I guess that's why they come out kind of traumatized.

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Speaker 1: So she was processing her grief, guilt and heartbreak, and

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Speaker 1: songs that I guess as she was writing them felt romantic,

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Speaker 1: but in retrospect are all kinds of heavy, capturing the

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Speaker 1: full spectrum of that codependent relationship. As Electraspetritis writes in

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Speaker 1: his guardian piece calling Back to Black, the Greatest album

405
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Speaker 1: of the twenty one century, these songs are shot through

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Speaker 1: with references to hedonism that always feel nihilistic, never celebratory.

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Speaker 1: There are umpteen mentions of booze and drugs, but none

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Speaker 1: to partying. Are having a good time only their ability

409
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Speaker 1: to obliterate. Amy told Rolling Stone in two thousands seven,

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Speaker 1: after they've reunited, around the time they got married, all

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Speaker 1: the songs are about the state of my relationship at

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Speaker 1: the time with Blake. I had never felt the way

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Speaker 1: I feel about him about anyone in my life. It

414
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Speaker 1: was very cathartic because I felt terrible about the way

415
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Speaker 1: we treated each other. I thought we'd never see each

416
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Speaker 1: other again. He laughs about it now, He's like, what

417
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Speaker 1: do you mean you thought you'd never see each other again.

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Speaker 1: We love each other. We've always loved each other. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's funny. I wanted to die. Mark Ronson,

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Speaker 1: who produced half the songs I'm Back to Black, would

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Speaker 1: later say that when it came time to record the songs,

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Speaker 1: it seemed very clear that they were writing about an

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Speaker 1: era in Amy's life that she'd move past. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think so. Yeah. I mean, having that, you know,

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Speaker 1: go through all these songs and not only to write them,

426
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: but then also sing them and then sing them on stage,

427
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: you have to wonder if it's talk about them in

428
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: the press. Yeah, I've just had the unintended side effect

429
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: that just re traumatizing her. Yeah. I mean there's that

430
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: whole thing about how child stars are stuck at the

431
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: age with that they become famous at sure. I mean

432
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: it's not a stretch to extend that to the idea

433
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: that you are stuck in the emotional state that you

434
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: create art in while you're having to recreate that art constantly,

435
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: which is a grim thing for any performing artist to

436
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: have to confront. Yeah, that's a that's a beautifulay to

437
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: put it. I mean, she would later say, you know,

438
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: when you write songs, you have to remember everything. You

439
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: have to remember what the wind felt like you have

440
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: to remember what his next smelt like. And we mentioned

441
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: that earlier album Frank had used a lot of co

442
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: writers on her songs, whether she wanted to or not. Uh.

443
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: Seven out of the eleven tracks on Back to Black

444
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: were written solely by Amy without any co writer. Uh.

445
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: So clearly these are much more personal. The writer Laura

446
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: Barton wrote in a piece in The Guardian after Amy's

447
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: death called Amy Winehouse saying of a deeply feminine suffering.

448
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: The piece examined Amy's lyrics, which Barton compares to raw

449
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: honestly of early blues women like Ethel Waters, mol Rainey,

450
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: Big Mama Thornton. She wrote pop music had often cast

451
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: women as sweet, bright creatures, but Winehous's lyrics revealed something mulchier, messier.

452
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: Here was a woman who refused to conform, not in

453
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: the eccentric madwoman in the attic mold of Kate Bush

454
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: or Puork Yeah, but a woman who chose to live

455
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: a little wild, follow her heart and seeing of the

456
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: simple stew of being female. Her songs were filled with

457
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: broad talk, cussing drink and drugs and dicks. Song that

458
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: could hinge on one magnificent, unladylike question. What kind of

459
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: free is this? She's saying openly, a female desire, not

460
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: the squawky, shrill sexuality of sex in the city, but

461
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: something truer, more physical, more serious. She's saying about the

462
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: ache of the body, the need for emotion, the distracting

463
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: a lure of a man's shoulders, shirt underwear when he

464
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: comes to me, I dripped for him tonight, She's sang

465
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: on wake Up Alone, drowned in me, we bathe under

466
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: blue Light. That was actually the first song recorded during

467
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: the sessions for Back to Black, done with producer Paul O'Duffy,

468
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: who is best known for producing Swing Out Sister. What

469
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: the hell is that? Jordan's swing out Sis? So it's

470
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: like a new Jack swing group from No I don't

471
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: That's all I know. I Uh, he's kind of written

472
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: out of Amy's story. Producers Solemn Remy and Mark Ronson

473
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: get most of the attention, but Amy spent a month

474
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: in O'Duffy's North London studio working on songs, and this

475
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: is the only one that wound up on the album

476
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: wake Up Alone. The original idea was inspired by nine

477
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: seventy two song by Sarah Vaughan called Deep in the Night,

478
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: and O'Duffy, who co wrote the song with her, later

479
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: told Mojo she had a book and would be drawing

480
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: pictures of herself with love, hearts and things, and you

481
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: knew she was off in another world. Then she started

482
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: writing lyrics and at a certain point she said, Oh,

483
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: I've got something. In the normal process, a singer might

484
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: share a lyric or melodic idea, but she sang it

485
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: in one take. I was like, Wow, where does this

486
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: come from? Mark Ronson gave this song a bit of

487
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: a retro girl group style revamp, but the original version

488
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: and with Paulo Duffy playing jazzy acoustic guitar, is included

489
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: on the aforementioned posthumous Rarities comp Lioness Yeah, wake Up

490
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: Alone is one of my favorite songs on this album.

491
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: It's just such a great song of longing, and unlike

492
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: most Torch songs out there, which are usually variations of

493
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: why did you leave me? Why did you do this

494
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: to me? You know, think, adele Amy songs were occasionally

495
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 1: pretty self lacerating. One of my favorite songs of her

496
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: as ever, as a song on Frank called I've heard

497
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 1: Love is Blind? Have you heard this song. It's basically

498
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: Amy talking to her boyfriend, and she's justifying why she

499
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: slept with some other guy. And I've tried to pick

500
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: a representative line from the lyrics, but after reading it over,

501
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: it just felt like a sin to break it up

502
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: because it reads like a short story. It's kind of

503
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: a deep cut, just as much as that's possible for

504
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: somebody who has so few songs. But I'd like to

505
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: share the lines from the song with you. I've heard

506
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: love is blind. I couldn't resist him. His eyes were

507
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: like yours. His hair was exactly the shade of brown.

508
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: He's just not as tall, but I couldn't tell. It

509
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: was dark and I was lying down. You are everything.

510
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: He means nothing to me. I can't even remember his name.

511
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: Why are you so upset? Baby? You weren't there, and

512
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: I was thinking of you when I came. What did

513
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: you expect? You left me here alone? I drank so

514
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: much and needed to touch. Don't have a react. I

515
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: pretended he was you. You wouldn't want me to be lonely?

516
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: How can I put it so? You understand? I didn't

517
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: let him hold my hand, but he looked like you.

518
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: I guess he looked like you though he wasn't you.

519
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: But you can still trust me. This ain't infidelity, it's

520
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: not cheating. You were on my mind. Yes he looked

521
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: like you, but I heard love was blind. I just

522
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: think that's an incredible bit of lyric writing for so

523
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: many different reasons. Uh, you almost believe her, You almost

524
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: like you're almost like, okay, I said, get it, which

525
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: is a neat trick. But you also it's it's so

526
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: unflattering to put that out there, but to do it

527
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: so brazenly and so beautifully and so wittily to me,

528
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: I know it's it's kind of a deep cut on

529
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the non hit album, but that, to me is one

530
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: of her finer moments. It's a beautiful vocal performance too.

531
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: Um and I share this because she brings the same

532
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: sensibility to the Back to Black sessions, Uh, specifically on

533
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: you Know I'm No Good, in which she admits in

534
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: pretty graphic detail that she cheated on Blake, and when

535
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: Mojo Magazine's Tom Doyle asked Amy if the lyric was true,

536
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: she admitted, yeah, Blake hates it. He's really proud of me.

537
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: But it's so personal. It must be hard when I'm

538
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: like pen to paper. I'm the most honest. I get

539
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: just a side note, because if there's a bond detour,

540
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it. The song makes reference to Roger Moore.

541
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: You know, by the time I'm out the door, you

542
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: teared men down, like Roger Moore. Roger Moore was actually

543
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: asked about this, and he said that he had no

544
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: idea why Amy chose to include him in the lyrics.

545
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: The best that he could come up with was that

546
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: she either wanted a word that rhymed with door or

547
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: she couldn't find a word that rhymed with Connery. He's

548
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: Cockney Cockney rhyming slang is much easier when it's monosyllabic.

549
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: He's not my favorite bond, but he kind of seems

550
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: like probably the bond that maybe he is the nicest person.

551
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: Have you read that airport story? I don't think so.

552
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, I might cut this, but it's so it's

553
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: so good, So I guess like at some point in

554
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: the eighties, this little kid was at an airport and

555
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: Roger Moore was sitting there and he was freaking out.

556
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: He was so excited, So he got his dad to

557
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: go over and get his autograph, and his dad came

558
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: back and brought the autograph over and handed as the kid, dad,

559
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: what's this that's James Bond. Why does it say who's

560
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: Roger Moore? Why do you write you right? The name

561
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: Roger Moore? What the hell is this? So the dad

562
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: takes whatever he signed, goes back over to Roger Moore

563
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: rogers like um, like he nods, he gets it. He

564
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: waves a little kid over and goes, hey, you know,

565
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: I know I wrote Roger Moore. That's the name I

566
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: have to sign because it's my code name. Blowfeld could

567
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: be anywhere around here, like you're working with me now,

568
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Like you get it, Roger Moore? Okay. So and he

569
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: was the cutest thing. Twenty years go by and this

570
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: kid grows up. He's like a video producer or something,

571
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: and he crosses paths with Roger Moore again, and he

572
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: casually brings up that he'd run into him into this airport,

573
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years earlier, and Roger, you know, it's graceful, bad,

574
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: but you know, he doesn't. Of course he doesn't remember.

575
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: Why would anyone expect them to. Later, after the shoots

576
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: wrapped at the end of the day, they passed each

577
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: other in the hallway, and Roger Moore waves him over

578
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: and goes, of course I remember our rendezvous at the airport,

579
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: but I couldn't sell you there. There are too many witnesses,

580
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: of course, like because I remember, Yeah, it's not great.

581
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: I love that Sean Connery would have just punched him

582
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: in a bad was it? Michael is in Michael Caine

583
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: that tells a story about being in a bar with

584
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: like Sean Connery and someone like talked about him and

585
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: got up and like folded his jacket and like asked

586
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: Michael Caine to hold it and then like beat the

587
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: hell out of all four men like outside of the pub.

588
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh he could. Was in the ex Navy

589
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: and like a former Mr Universe, Mr Scott and Mr.

590
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: Something like, yeah, he was a bodybuilder, which is so

591
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: funny because you look at those old shirtless pictures and

592
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: you're like, that's what buff men used to be. If

593
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: you look at the rock, Who's like, yeah, my human

594
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: growth hormone. As you meditate on that, we'll be right

595
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: back with more too much information. After these messages, at

596
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: the end of two thou five, Winehouse went to Miami

597
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: to meet up with producer Salam Remy, who had worked

598
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: on her debut album, or at least the parts of

599
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: it that she liked. Um he'd worked with famous R

600
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: and B names like the Fugis and Jasmine Sullivan and Miguel,

601
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: but man still remains somewhat under the radar. He's a

602
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: great quote. Most people don't even know I exist, and

603
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: I don't want them to know my name. If you

604
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: got to write it on a check has been my

605
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: motto for a long time. That's one for the ages. Ah.

606
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: He was something of a father figure to Amy and

607
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: a true confidant. She went to his private studio and

608
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: over ten days recorded five songs that would wind up

609
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: on Back to Black Tears, Drying their own, some on

610
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: Holy War. Me and Mr Jones just friends and addicted.

611
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: And these sessions were very intimate, with Amy playing guitar

612
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: and singing, while Salam added instruments that he usually played himself.

613
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: Her engineer Gary Noble later said, like most British people

614
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: who come here, she loved the sun. She loved reggae,

615
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: so Miami having that island vibe was something she was into.

616
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: She often went into Salam's back garden and worked on

617
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: her lyrics, and it was sitting in that back garden

618
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: there in the blue shade. She's saying that she finished

619
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: the lyrics to what became Tears Dry on their Own.

620
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: As she explained to a crowd at Shepherd's Bush in

621
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, this song is about when you're in

622
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: a relationship and you know it is going to end,

623
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: and you know you're going to be upset, but you

624
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: know that you have to do it. She gave a

625
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: little bit more detail about it to the Sun in

626
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: October two thousand six, saying Tears Drying their Own is

627
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: a track about the breakup with Blake, my ex. Most

628
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: of these songs are about him. I shouldn't have been

629
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: in a relationship with him because he was already involved

630
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: with someone else a bit too close to home. The

631
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: song is about when we split up and me saying

632
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: to myself, yes, you're sad, but you'll get over it,

633
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: and I did. I still talked to Blake, and once

634
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: we got over the initial pain, it was fine. I

635
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: believe you can be mates with your ex. I'm still

636
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: really close to him as a friend and nothing more.

637
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: Though Alex, my boyfriend, now doesn't like me seeing him,

638
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: which is understandable. I guess he was correct. She left

639
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: him and been married Blake. Uh. And that song is

640
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: interesting because the backing track to it is basically the

641
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: Marvin Gay Tammy Terrell do it Ain't No Mountain High Enough,

642
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: written by the legendary Motown songwriting team Ashford and Simpson.

643
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Basically it is they have a songwriting credit on that

644
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: is a sample or they just took they just re

645
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: recorded the entire backing track. Oh okay. The original version

646
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: of Tears Dry in their own was done as a ballad,

647
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: which you can hear on the aforementioned Lioness Rarities. Cuts

648
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: very down tempo, and Salam was worried that all the

649
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: tracks that they had done had a similar mid tempo

650
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: groove and was looking to change that up a bit.

651
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: And by coincidence, he happened to come across some online

652
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: leaks of these isolating Motown backing tracks Ain't No Mountain

653
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: High Enough, which I have exact that exact stem package

654
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: that he's talking about. Uh. And as he told Mojo,

655
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: I was sitting there listening to it, and I was

656
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: telling Amy tears Dry, I could work over that, but

657
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: she just could not hear it. I almost had to

658
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: sing it to get her to figure it out, and

659
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: she was so frustrated being one take Amy. That's the

660
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: most swearing I recorded of her ever. He said it

661
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: was the only time he'd ever seen her frustrated in

662
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: the creative process. She just couldn't figure out how to

663
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: shoehorn all those lyrics into the quicker versions. A lot

664
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: of lyrics, But it's a brilliant idea because not only

665
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: does it work from a melodic standpoint, but it's also thematically.

666
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: She's singing a heartbroken song about being alone over the

667
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: backing track for one of the most famous romantic duets

668
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: of all time. As Salam said, the whole idea was

669
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: making her singing very sad lyrics against an encouraging backing track.

670
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: That juxtaposition and also making one of the faster songs

671
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: in the album kind of gave it another spark um.

672
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: That's probably the most famous example of Amy interpolating an

673
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: old R and B soul track on Back to Black,

674
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: but it's not the only one. There's also a bit

675
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,479
Speaker 1: of the backing track of a relatively obscure N six song,

676
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: My Girl She's a Fox by a group called The Iceman,

677
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: which funnily enough, features a pre fame Jimmy Hendrix. Also

678
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: remember the twenty seven Club playing guitar along with Lonnie

679
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: young Blood. Yeah, he's on sax. Do you heard that

680
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: song at the sound? Great song? Oh yeah, that's Jimmy.

681
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: That just sounds like the intro wind cries mar I know, yeah,

682
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: that's great. But that song was it was. It wasn't sampled,

683
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: it was. It was revamped as uh, the song he

684
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: Can Only Hold Her. They really got the whole thing.

685
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: They got the guitar intro, they got the backing vocals

686
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: and everything. Yeah, there's a there's a there's a we'll

687
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: talk about this in a bit, but there's a there's

688
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable whiff of ganking to this whole thing. Say

689
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: what do you will about the dap tone guys, But

690
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: at least they fluted black people. What this is the

691
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: era of like Mayor Hawthorne, where instead of like you

692
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: get people making fake sixties or soul songs or early

693
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: seventies funk cuts that were specifically designed to be sold

694
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: to producers to be chopped up and then sometimes like

695
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: Mayor Hawthorne in particular, with stuff like just Ain't Gonna

696
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: work out those songs would actually be released and get airplay.

697
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: Is such an interesting way to go about it instead

698
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: of just going create diving anyway, salam Remy produced the

699
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: track some Unholy War, which not one of MY favorite

700
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: songs on the album, both because it's downbeat and also

701
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: it's kind of an uncomfortable listen. Uh. Perhaps more than

702
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: any song on this album, it's the one that I

703
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: think best encapsulates the codependent tendencies between Blake and Amy.

704
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: It's an obsessive song. It's about someone that she would

705
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: die for. If my man was fighting someone holy war,

706
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: I would be beside him. And the title came from

707
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: a news radio broadcast about the war in Afghanistan which

708
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: used the term holy war, and Amy heard this and

709
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: twisted it to kind of fit the themes of her

710
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: relationship issues with Blake. I would imagine that she thought

711
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: the whole song was very romantic. You know right or wrong,

712
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: stand by your Man. It's basically an updated version of

713
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: the Tammy Wynette song. It reminds me when I was

714
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: a teenager. I really loved the book Low Leader by

715
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: Vladimir Nabakov because to me, as a fifteen year old,

716
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: it seemed like the first book I'd ever read that

717
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: perfectly encapsulated the obsessive insanity of new love, which it's

718
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: a very teenage phenomenon, you know, I said that earlier,

719
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: at the time I was a teen. I obviously knew

720
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: that the relationship in the book was wrong on every level,

721
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: but there was something about it that almost seemed romantic

722
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: to me in my emotional maturity, You and Nick cave

723
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: and then the older I got, I realized just how

724
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: disturbing that kind of obsession and code dependency actually is.

725
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: And it's not romantic, it's just upsetting. That's kind of

726
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: how I feel about this track Someone Holy War. It's

727
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: also something a bit uh quintessentially British about using a

728
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: war in the Middle East as a metaphorical dating life,

729
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: like that's the first pass idea. This brings us to

730
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: my favorite track to come from the salam Remy sessions

731
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: at the end of two thousand five, Me and Mr Jones.

732
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: The title is a play on Billy Paul's soul ballad

733
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: Me and Mrs Johns, but the Mr Jones and Amy's

734
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: version it's the robber nas born Nasir Jones. Amy was

735
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: a huge fan of nas and even sampled his instrumental

736
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: made you look on the Frank track in My bed

737
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: and you know. For all that's been written about Amy's

738
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 1: love of jazz, hip hop was a major influence for her.

739
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: As a child. She started a short lived salt and

740
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: pepper style rap group called Sweet and Sour with her

741
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: childhood friend. Guess which one Amy was Sweeter Sour. The

742
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: lyrics to me and Mr Jones are so great. It is,

743
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: to my knowledge, the first long that mentions both eighties

744
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: MC slick Rick and Sammy Javis Jr. So it's got

745
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: that going for it, which is nice. It kicks off

746
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: with one of the greatest opening lines of all time,

747
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: again breaking my no no f bomb edict on this show.

748
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: What kind of theory is this? What a all time

749
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: opening lyric? Right there? Slam said that Amy had gotten

750
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: that off of West Indians slang, which I guess is

751
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with anyway. She really wanted to call

752
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: the song Fury, but the label panicked. It's thinking that

753
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: she would never get it on the radio with a

754
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: title like that, because as I'm discovering right now, it's

755
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: very hard to censor that word. Of course, this pissed

756
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: Amy off to no end. Well you know, why can't

757
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: I But they changed the title to Me and Mr Jones,

758
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: which is kind of a better title. The song itself

759
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: is about a guy she used to casually date who

760
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: worked in the record industry and she used to get

761
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: free tickets off him, but for whatever reason, jealousy or incompetence,

762
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: he couldn't come through with seats for a Slick Rick concert,

763
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: hence the you maybe missed the Slick gig. You thought

764
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: I didn't love you when I did. Can't believe you

765
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: played me out like that. It sounds like it was jealousy.

766
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: He was holding out on her, but she refused to

767
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: miss the gig for Nas, who she really admired and

768
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: reportedly kind of had a crush on. Hence, nobody stands

769
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: between Me and my man, Me and Mr Jones Nazier Jones,

770
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: Nas And there are a lot of little hints in

771
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: the song. She named checks Naz's daughter Destiny, and also

772
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: his birthday September four, which coincidentally was also Amy's birthday,

773
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: and Nas years later confirmed the song was about him,

774
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: and in October interview with XXL, three months after Amy died,

775
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: saying that they were actually planning a joint birthday celebration together.

776
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: To be a fly on that wall. Yeah, NAS told

777
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: Genius that he only met her once in person. I

778
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to really know her that much.

779
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: I knew her through music, I knew her through Skype,

780
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: I knew her through texting, I knew her through telephone.

781
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: I knew her through hanging out one time in London.

782
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: The greatest thing, and the thing that's sad, is that

783
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: I met someone who shared my same birthday and we

784
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: had no competition, We had no beef, we had no tension,

785
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: nothing like that. It was like we always knew we

786
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: were supposed to be cool. And that's as far as

787
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: it goes. She was like a sister to me, and

788
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: the actually collaborated twice, I imagine, just you know, through

789
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: email on the songs like Smoke and Cherry Wine, which

790
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: were released after Amy's death. But now the question that

791
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure is on all of your minds did she

792
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: make it to the NAS concert? The short answer is

793
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but Google Slewice have determined that there

794
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 1: was indeed a NAS gig at the Brixton Academy, which

795
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: she sings about on March twenty one, two thousand five,

796
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: a show that was notable because it was interrupted by

797
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: a shooting that took place a half hour into it

798
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: that injured one concert car. So let's hope that maybe

799
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: she did miss the naz gig after all. One funny

800
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: thing about the song Me and Mr Jones that you

801
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: can hear a little bit of Amy's englishness coming through.

802
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: She put on the tea kettle while they were taping

803
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: the instrumental track, because the studio where Salam Remy was working,

804
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: I think was in his home in Miami, and so

805
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: you had the kettle on in the kitchen nearby, and

806
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: it started going off midway through the recording. Salam said

807
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: that they were recording and they just see Amy run

808
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: off and they didn't know why. And he was listening

809
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: to the track later and you heard this high frequency

810
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: and he realized it was the tea kettle, and he

811
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: left it on there, I guess because he can barely

812
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: hear it. But if you listen to the end of

813
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: the song, you can kind of hear this high frequency.

814
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: It's like the phone ringing in the ocean by Zeppelin

815
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 1: studio off about halfway through that, uh and is really cute.

816
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: She used to love to use salam Remy's kitchen and

817
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: enjoyed cooking big meals for all the musicians thereafter sessions

818
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: and those who knew Amy said she knew how to

819
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: make a mean chicken soup, like like a good Jewish mother.

820
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: I know. But Back to Black had two producers, not

821
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: just Salam Remy, but perhaps most famously Mark Ronson. They

822
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: had very different styles, with Amy as the lynchpin. Salam

823
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: described his contributions as being in the same town as Ronson's,

824
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: but in a slightly seedier neighborhood, which is great. Um.

825
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: Ronson came at his role as producer from an interesting

826
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: position because he was a DJ, which you know, good

827
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 1: background because you quickly discover an InSync for what works

828
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: and what doesn't in respect to the dance floor. UH.

829
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: He grew up in New York, attended n y U

830
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: like Rick Rubin UH, and he was fascinated by the

831
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: link between hip hop and the old soul records that

832
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: they sampled. Even before he was globally famous for his

833
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: work with Amy Winehouse. Ronsos Djaying album released parties for

834
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: people like Jay z Uh. He was apparently the first

835
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: DJ ever to pay big. He's hypnotize on a dance floor. Yeah.

836
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: I verify this with him when I interviewed him for

837
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: VH one a bunch of years ago, and I'm to

838
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 1: this day really proud at how shocked he looked when

839
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: I dropped that fact on him. He was so surprised. Yeah,

840
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: he'd say. His DJ sets during this era were six

841
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: hip hop, funk and disco reggae and ten percent rock

842
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: and roll, which is a good blend. His early production

843
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: work in the two thousand was very sample based um,

844
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: and he came into the same orbit as Puffy Farrell

845
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: Busta Rhymes UM, so not far from the hip hop

846
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: background that salam Remy head. Ronson and Amy were first

847
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: put in contact because they shared a publishing company, and

848
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: she paid him a visit at his New York rehearsal

849
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: studio in March of two thousand and six. Before she

850
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: met him, she apparently thought he was going to be

851
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: some old dude with a beard a la Rick Rubin uh,

852
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: And she thought he was an engineer for the first

853
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: few minutes because he was just barely thirty years old

854
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: at the time. So they initially bonded on the superficial

855
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: level at first, roughly the same age, Jewish and English,

856
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: and initially he wanted to get just a sense of

857
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: what she liked, and her response was specific and evocative.

858
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: Talking to Mojo, he said, she said she liked to

859
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: go out to bars and clubs and play snooker with

860
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: her boyfriend and listened to the Shangra laws. So she

861
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: played me some of those records, which turned into a

862
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: crash course in girl group productions. And the thing that

863
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: struck him first about those tracks was the drama. He

864
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: later said in the two eighteen Classic Albums documentary about

865
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: Back to Black, that those really sixties pop songs were

866
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: selling heartbreak on this giant scale, like the world is

867
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: going to end if my boyfriend doesn't take me back.

868
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: It's so annoying to me that that Walking in the

869
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: Sand has become a tiktop meme because that song is

870
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: like do metal like when that kicks in, And that's

871
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: the song that she played him that stuck in his head,

872
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: that became back the piano part to Back to Black.

873
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to punch that in later whatever happens to

874
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: ah Amy said something similar in an interview in the

875
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: lead up to the Grammys in two thous So many

876
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: songs today are like you don't know me, I don't

877
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: need you, But back then it was more like I

878
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: don't care if you don't love me. I will lie

879
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: down in the road, I will pull pull out my

880
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: heart and show it to you. So that was the

881
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: stuff that she was into. How this should not surprise anyone.

882
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: H After she left, Mark spent the night in his

883
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: studio trying to come up with some sort of instrumental

884
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: track to play for her. And that's when he came

885
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: up with the piano figure that will become the verse

886
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: to back to Black. That piano part feels very shamer

887
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: Laws walking in the sand, as you mentioned. Uh. And

888
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: then he added a drum pattern that is sort of

889
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: reminiscent of be My Baby, the how Blaine, the most

890
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: iconic drum intro of all time. Maybe that'll give me

891
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: some angry comments. Uh. He was not coordinated enough to

892
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: do the bass and snare at the same time. Uh,

893
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: So he took the mallet off the foot pedal and

894
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: just played it with his hands, um, which is you know,

895
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 1: it worked. And then he built it up some more

896
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: over percussion, uh, tambourine with caked in reverb word. Yeah, well,

897
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's part of those Motown stems. You know.

898
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: You forget how those like an indispensable part of those

899
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: Motown tracks with the auxiliary percussion. You had all those

900
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: guys who grew up playing tambourine and church. There's you know,

901
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: the chimes, bells on it, shakers and uh, you know

902
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: probably what did he probably throw on there, like probably

903
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: a mid filter and some tape emulator plug ins and

904
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: the piano. There's a great if you care, which I

905
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: can't imagine you do, but he did something for the BBC.

906
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: I think it's called Maestro and it was like a

907
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: ten minute YouTube clip of it where he actually like

908
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: literally just sits down with the stems on pro tools

909
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: and goes through each filter that he used and like

910
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 1: how he assembled it. It's it's interesting even if you don't,

911
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, care so much about the specific final product.

912
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: It's just to see how he manipulates these sounds that

913
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: he really just made like in his a little crappy

914
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: studio and made it sound like these wall of sound

915
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: style U Wagnerian. You know Seth who recorded the theme

916
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: song for for this po. This very podcast. Uh, same,

917
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: same mold. I mean that kings dude, like, there's you know,

918
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: welcome to the plug in portion of this program. Well,

919
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: I just want to say because it's it's funny, like

920
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: some of that gear stuff is interesting because it is

921
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: these sounds that become highly sought after that are intrinsically Yeah. Yeah.

922
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: Blake Mills, who is like a really sought after guitarist

923
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: producer right now, buys these old movie projectors. He rewires

924
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: them to use them as amps and preamps because of

925
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: the guts of them cover your tone in such a

926
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: way that people like, it's just so fascinating to me. Man,

927
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: it's just people reverse engineering old junkie stuff to get

928
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: that vibe to it. And as we will mention as

929
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: the DAP tones later on, we're like, no, we will

930
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: not do that. We will record directly to tape anyway.

931
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: Thus concludes the plug in portions. Um so Amy arrives

932
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: back at the studio the following day and he plays

933
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: it for her, and Ronson told Fader she really didn't

934
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: get animated about anything ever. She just had this dead stare.

935
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: So I thought what I did didn't work, and then

936
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: she just looked at me. And said, I love it.

937
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: That's what I want my whole album to sound like.

938
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: So she stayed for another five days, just me and her,

939
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: and in that time they worked on the song's rehab,

940
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: back to Black. You know, I'm no good. Love is

941
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: a losing game. Wake up alone and he can only

942
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: hold her. He said. It would usually start with her

943
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 1: playing him songs on her nylon string guitar, and then

944
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: he would get the chords from that, and then she

945
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: would leave for the night and he would quote go

946
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: nuts with the arrangements. But the whole process was done

947
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: in just a few days, and Mark would say it

948
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: was the quickest he'd worked on any record. He later

949
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: told an Emmy, I always think, damn, I wish it

950
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: did take longer because I would have more memories. It

951
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: was just so quick. That is sad and an he

952
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: made Uptown Funk my least favorite song of all time

953
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: except for American Pie. Oh, I actually like I'm town fun. Obviously,

954
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: back to Black was the crucial song of the session.

955
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's the title track that provided something of

956
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: a mission statement to the cathartic proceedings. The backing track

957
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: is like an updated version of Phil spector's wall of Sounds,

958
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: complete with funeral bells tolling at the end. In the video,

959
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: she stands over a grave marked by a tombstone that

960
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: reads R I P. The Heart of Amy Winehouse, which

961
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: was subsequently edited out after her death for obvious reasons.

962
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: After Mark Ronson played her that rough verse section that

963
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: he put together, which if you listen to it, it's

964
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: really just loops throughout the entire song. That's only dynamics

965
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: that really signify the shift of the chorus. Amy burned

966
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: it to a CD and went to the back room

967
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: at the studio and spent an hour writing lyrics. And

968
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: the Amy documentary has a shot of the lyric sheet

969
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: and it's just covered with hearts like a teenage girl's notebook.

970
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: It just kills me. Originally, when she came in to

971
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: sing what she into Mark, She's sang the bit we

972
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: only said goodbye with words I died a hundred deaths,

973
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: which you later changed that I died a hundred times.

974
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: Mark offered a little bit of producer lee direction. He said,

975
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: I was like producer one on one. The words rhyme

976
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: and the chorus they have to her won't be a hit.

977
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: Amy was so serious about her words, though, and she

978
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: just looked at me like I was crazy, Like why

979
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: would I fix that? That's what came out, that's honestly

980
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: on paper, and uh so it stayed, and he later

981
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: observed that song back to Black has some of the

982
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: most unlikely lyrics you could ever imagine in a massive

983
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: pop single. And there's footage of Amy recording I think

984
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: it's the final take actually in the Amy documentary from

985
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: and it's a mind blowing not only that it exists,

986
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: but just to watch. It's just so funny to hear

987
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: her sing the phrase kept his dick wet in that

988
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: perfect Billie Holiday voice. Just great. Ronnie Specter, after Amy died,

989
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: recorded a version of back to Black in tribute to her,

990
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: and she she couldn't bring herself to sign that line.

991
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: I think she changed to kept his thing wet. I

992
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: believe justn't much better, but I guess it's okay. Now

993
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: we got to talk about Rehab, which is my least

994
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: favorite track on the album. So it's admittedly the one

995
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: that made her a commercial artist in a household name,

996
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: which ultimately you could actually argue is part of her downfall.

997
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: So one of her more poignant quotes in the Amy

998
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: documentary is when she's asked earlier in her career if

999
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: she thinks she'll ever be famous, and she says, no,

1000
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: my music is not on that scale. I don't think

1001
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: i'll be famous. I couldn't handle it. I'll go mad.

1002
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: This is very sad to hear in retrospect. So maybe

1003
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: the song rehabits her undoing um actually came from a

1004
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: conversation that Amy had with Mark ronson what e were

1005
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: taking a break from these early sessions and going for

1006
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: a walk. I guess they were walking around downtown looking

1007
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: for a present for Amy's new boyfriend, this guy Alex Claire,

1008
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 1: who wasn't in the picture for long, and she started

1009
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: filling Mark in on her ex Blake. You know, the

1010
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: guy inspired all these songs. It was kind of natural

1011
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 1: that the topic would come up, and she specifically talked

1012
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: about the extremely rough period after their breakup in two

1013
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: thousand five, when she spiraled into a deep depression and

1014
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: her friends went to her house after I think she

1015
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: fell over and hit her head after drinking, and they

1016
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: said it was like a squatter lived there. It was

1017
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 1: just clear that she had a serious problem. Her parents

1018
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: didn't really want to know or get involved. So her

1019
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: manager essentially kidnapped her and drove her to the middle

1020
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: of nowhere I think, like literally in the woods and

1021
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: begged her to go to rehab. And eventually, just like

1022
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: the song says, she said she'd go if her dad

1023
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: thinks she should, and they had a famous meeting with

1024
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: her father where he declared her fine and that she

1025
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: didn't need to go to rehab. Her father, Mitch, who's

1026
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: kind of a kind of a character in the I

1027
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: was gonna say, he's like the other big male villain

1028
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: in her life, right, Yeah, kind of shamefully indulged in.

1029
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: He was a cabby, but he had singing aspirations of

1030
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: his own. And there, of course some who kind of

1031
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: felt that, I mean a lot of he was the

1032
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: guy who kind of turned her onto all the stuff

1033
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: she loved, all the jazz stuff, Sarah Van Dinah Washington

1034
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: and all the great Motown stuff. But yeah, there's some

1035
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: who feel that he kind of tried to ride her

1036
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: coat tails to get something of his own off the ground. Um, yeah,

1037
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: no position to judge, I'm not a father, but yeah,

1038
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: there there's seemed to have have been some questionable choices made

1039
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,280
Speaker 1: by by this man, and one of them was declaring

1040
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: that Amy was fine. I didn't need to go to rehab.

1041
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: She said that she was drinking too much because she

1042
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: was young and because she was love sick and you

1043
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: quote can't go into rehab for that. Um and as

1044
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: her manager that wanted kidnapped her and tried to help

1045
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: later said this was the moment we lost a very

1046
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: key opportunity. She wasn't a star, she wasn't sworn by paparazzi,

1047
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: and she might have been able to work on herself,

1048
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, alone before a world wanted a piece of her.

1049
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 1: But alas it was not to be. So apparently Amy's

1050
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: draw ping this whole story on Mark Ronson as they're

1051
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: out for a walk, and to hear Amy tell it,

1052
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: she sang the hook out loud, just on the spot

1053
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: as a joke. You know, no, no, no at all,

1054
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,479
Speaker 1: and she told this is her talking to the Daily

1055
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: Mail in two thousand and seven. It was quite silly, really,

1056
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 1: I sang the whole line exactly as it turned out

1057
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: on the record. Mark laughed and asked me who wrote it,

1058
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: because he liked it. I told him I just made

1059
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: it up, and that it was true, and he encouraged

1060
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: me to turn it into a song, which took me

1061
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: five minutes. It wasn't hard, it was about what my

1062
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: old management company wanted me to do. Mark Mark does

1063
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 1: the chuck chuck. It's your cousin, Marvin Winehouse. His face

1064
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: lights up when he hears this, you know, this hook

1065
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: that she sings, and he admittedly feels bad about it.

1066
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: Later he's talking to Zane Low. He said, She's telling

1067
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: me all this horrible stuff and I'm supposed to be like, Wow,

1068
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: how was that for you? And instead I'm like, we've

1069
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: got to go back to the studio. Yeah, that's there's

1070
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: so many thorny conversations about like what's like what do

1071
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: you do? I mean, it's always trickier with ours because like, nominally,

1072
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: that's their entire existence is mezing their life into the

1073
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: thing that you are there to support them in, you know,

1074
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: the thing that like you exist in an infrastructure, if

1075
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: you're a manager, if you're a label, if you're a producer,

1076
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: to help them create that stuff, and if they are

1077
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: using their deep well of sadness and pain to create

1078
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: that stuff. There's always the ongoing dialogue with everyone around it,

1079
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: like well, should we be enabling this? But like if

1080
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: we don't, are we out of a job? Because like

1081
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, they talk about that with I mean, this

1082
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: is a out of left field comparison, but like they

1083
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: talk about with like that with a grateful debt, like

1084
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: so many people whose livelihoods were tied up in getting

1085
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: Jerry back out on the road when he was deeply

1086
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: unhealthy and didn't want to do it anymore and was

1087
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: really in no shape to do it, and it was

1088
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: it was this unhealthy lifestyle. But they were like, dude,

1089
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: there's like thirty people who feed their families off Elvis

1090
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: being out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, same deal. I

1091
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: mean they would like he would be barely coherent. And

1092
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: a story that somebody is an entourage tells of like

1093
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: Elvis is horizontal basically in his hotel room before he

1094
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: has to go to a show, and Colonel Tom Parker

1095
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: comes up there and with the tour doctor, and the

1096
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: guy's thinking, oh great, like the old man's here, he'll

1097
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: see what's really going on. He'll be able to put

1098
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: a stop to this and see what rough shape Elvis

1099
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: is in. And then he goes into the room and

1100
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: sees that they're dunking Elvis's head in like a champagne

1101
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: thing of ice, and Jesus, Colonel Tom Parker just says,

1102
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: the only thing that matters is that that man gets

1103
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: out on the stage tonight. Nothing else matters. And that

1104
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: was the environment. I mean, that's something that's yeah. I mean,

1105
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: it could still be going on for all I know,

1106
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: but I think that, you know, Amy's death might have

1107
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: had a hand in sort of dismantling or at least

1108
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: taking a chunk out of that kind of insidious is

1109
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: them fingers cross? But yeah, they after they're going for

1110
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: their walk, they went back to the studio and they

1111
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: turned their conversation into a song and it was initially

1112
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: an acoustic twelve bar blues kind of thing. Done it

1113
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: a really slow tempo, and Mark put on his producer's

1114
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: cap and said, yeah, that's cool, but how about we

1115
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: put a beat behind it and speed it up. And

1116
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: Mark Rotson had a radio show on East Village Radio,

1117
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: which in college I desperately wanted to join, Oh my God,

1118
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: and he played demos of Rehab and you know, I'm

1119
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: no good on these shows, making him the first DJ

1120
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: to play both Biggie's Hypnotize and Dammy Winehouse's rehab, I

1121
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: guess um and she used to accompany them to these

1122
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: shows when she was in town. And Mark told this

1123
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: great anecdote to The Fader a few years back. We

1124
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: got on so well. She would come with me to

1125
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: the East Village Radio on Fridays to do my show.

1126
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: She would hang out for ten minutes to get bored,

1127
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: and then go next door to the tattoo parlor and

1128
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: get a tattoo. I thought maybe I should stop inviting her,

1129
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: because I would feel guilty if she got a tattoo

1130
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: that she didn't really love one day. She was overtly

1131
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: sexual and playful, but there was never a notion that

1132
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: something was really going to happen. One time, I must

1133
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: have fallen asleep. We had this little bench and I

1134
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: woke up and my head was in her lap, and

1135
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: she was just stroking my hair as if I were

1136
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: her little boy. Their friendship is very sweet. I do

1137
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, despite the very hooky chorus, neither

1138
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: Amy or Mark that the song was an obvious hit.

1139
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: And Ronson recalls playing it for the Island Records and

1140
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: our management for the first time, and he said, about

1141
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds in they all said rewind rewind, but I

1142
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: didn't think they were going to be dollar signs lighting up.

1143
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: It's it's good to give an artist the story. I

1144
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: think that that gave Amy a narrative, you know, as

1145
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: opposed to just like a cool hit song, it happens

1146
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: with a dell too. I think it's always better to

1147
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: have a hit with a song that's not only catchy

1148
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: and also displays a tremendous amount of vocal virtuosity, but

1149
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: also gives you a background into whatever is happening. And

1150
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: I mean Rumor has got a great example. If you've

1151
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: got the element of a compelling story in there as

1152
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: well as a catchy chorus, you're gonna have a monster.

1153
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: As a sad aside, About a year after the song

1154
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: was released, Amy actually did go to rehab. It was

1155
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: in August two seven. She entered the Causeway Retreat with

1156
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: her new husband and fellow addict, Blake Fidler and addition,

1157
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: specialists know that admitting a couple to rehab together is

1158
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: a bad idea, but the Causeway, for whatever reason, let

1159
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: it happen. And perhaps not coincidentally, the Causeway facility was

1160
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: shut down following numerous ethical violations in and in the

1161
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: Amy documentary, Blake has shown at the facility just badgering Amy,

1162
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: shoving a video camera interface while they're in rehab, asking

1163
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: her to sing the new updated version of rehab as

1164
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: a joke, and she refuses. I know we're going to

1165
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with

1166
01:01:49,920 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: more too much information in just a moment. Enter the

1167
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: Dap Kings from somewhere Sunny. After Amy recorded these rough cuts,

1168
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: Ronson was using, by his own admission, every computer trick

1169
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: in the book to get that vintage sound. And that's

1170
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: when he realized that the answer wasn't a computer at all.

1171
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: The real vintage sound was the free made along the

1172
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: way the Dap Kings. I said earlier on Twitter to

1173
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: you that that I would cut off my left pink,

1174
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: no right pinky, the one I don't need to go

1175
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: back in time and be in the Dap Kings. Man,

1176
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean they are monsters, every single

1177
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: one of them players, but they are also just I

1178
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: don't know, do they're like archivists of a lot of

1179
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: overlooked figures in soul. I mean they started with Lee Fields.

1180
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:57,439
Speaker 1: They found Sharon Jones, who was a prison guard and

1181
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: did you ever see that documentary about Charles brad Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1182
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: Oh he found a monster and they found him when

1183
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: he was singing James Brown covers and they would just

1184
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: find anyway. I'm getting sorry that I saw Charles Bradley,

1185
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: not knowing who he was. He was at some festival

1186
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: and he just came. I was covering the vestil for work,

1187
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: and I didn't really want to be there. It was

1188
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: all like, you know, there's no name. I could say

1189
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: it right now, that wouldn't be offensive, so I'm just

1190
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: not gonna say anything, just all acts I didn't really

1191
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: care about. And then he comes on and I thought

1192
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: James Brown had risen from the dead. It was unbelievable.

1193
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: It's like sixties something year old. Man. Have I showed

1194
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: you that my Sharon Jones video. You've never showed it

1195
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: to me. You've told it to me, and I never will.

1196
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: It's just for me. Um. I saw her at a

1197
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: book signing right, yes, well it was a book event.

1198
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: I was like front row and she pulled me up

1199
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: on stage and she was like, you've been uh, get

1200
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: up here, man. She was an institution anyway, So these guys,

1201
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 1: they basically we're all just sold fiends and they got

1202
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: together and they were recording. As I mentioned, Lee Fields

1203
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: and we're just like analog dorks man. They recorded out

1204
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: in Bushwick when bush Wick was still like not a

1205
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: place that you went in a basement to tape analog boards.

1206
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: Their basis. Gabe Roth said, show me a computer that

1207
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: sounds as good as a tape machine, and I'll use it.

1208
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: They recorded this studio that they called the House of Soul.

1209
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: All the rhythm tracks, drums, piano, guitar based all in

1210
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: one room. The drums were recorded on one microphone. It's

1211
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: so good. I mean, do you ever visit there? No, No,

1212
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: I never knew any of them, I mean, or cross

1213
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: paths with any because they were already like celebrities by

1214
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: the time I've got to you know, I got to

1215
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: New York. But well we'll get again. Cart ahead of

1216
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: the horse. Um Mark Ronson had heard a Sharon Jones

1217
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,439
Speaker 1: track and he played it to Amy, who said, it's

1218
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: the Nuts, which was not of British Ism. I was familiar,

1219
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's the dogs, Bullocks. It's the same, it's

1220
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: I think it's sure, but yeah, there was a home run.

1221
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: They were the perfect band and Amy wasn't even at

1222
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: the sessions with them, which is kind of sad because

1223
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure she would have loved that, and because she

1224
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: was already back in London, and the guys in the

1225
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: DAP Kings just they had no idea that they were

1226
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: working on a record of this scope. Um the fact

1227
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: that she was already a known quantity in the UK

1228
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: didn't mean anything to them. The older names are so

1229
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: damn funny to me. Band leader Blinky grip Tite later said,

1230
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: we didn't have a clue about her already being a star.

1231
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: She probably told us that, but we were like, whatever,

1232
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: her name ain't Marva Whitney. So we did it and

1233
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: it was done. And this is the thing that gets

1234
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: into this whole conversation about any artists, any white person

1235
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: making black music. And a lot of music in the

1236
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: United States is black music, and I include myself in that,

1237
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: and you know, you try to have reverence for it,

1238
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: and you try to recognize where you're getting the stuff from.

1239
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: But there is an element of chair picking when it

1240
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: comes to what happened with this band, and and Sharon

1241
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: Jones in particular. That was the good thing, the cool

1242
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: thing about the DAP Kings a bunch of the white

1243
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: guys who were making period accurate funk music. Is that

1244
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: they use their resources to put these older artists on

1245
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: and in Sharon and Charles Bradley and Lee Fields, these

1246
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: guys case give them a second act that they richly deserved,

1247
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, a second chance. Really they never had a

1248
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: first act and a professional yeah, and so you get

1249
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 1: this rich compared to them, at least rich white girl

1250
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: from the UK literally flying in and taking their band

1251
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: and their sound, making a whole bunch more money on

1252
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: it than they ever did. H Sharon Jones was not

1253
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: thrilled initially, at least, she told The New York Times

1254
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, we were just sitting here minding

1255
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: our own business, doing not a little forty fives and albums,

1256
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they were like, I want

1257
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: your sound. And then Amy would call on the DAP

1258
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: Kings for live gigs when they were touring the US,

1259
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: and that came at the expense of them being available

1260
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: for Sharon the other artists on DAP Tomb and Uh.

1261
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: Sharon admitted as much. I mean, she told The Times, first,

1262
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: I feel kind of angry about it, but if it

1263
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: took Amy to get the Dap Kings heard. Then it's

1264
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: a good thing. I say, it's great. Thank you. Back

1265
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: to Black put dap tone on the map is one

1266
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: of the most important labels, soul or otherwise, and it

1267
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: brought that kind of retro leaning soul into the mainstream

1268
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: in a big way. But as author Jessica Lipsky note

1269
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: in her book about the label, it ain't retro Daptone

1270
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: Records and the twenty one century soul Revolution, it did

1271
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: not trickle down to people like Sharon Jones, Charles Bradley

1272
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: Leefield's um Naomi Shelton and the Gospel Queens or another

1273
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: great band on that on that label, uh Blinky Grip Tight,

1274
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: and some of the other players appreciated that Back to

1275
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: Black was, in his words, a flying que two pop trends,

1276
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: and also admired Amy for being unapologetically herself. She was

1277
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: on that zero given before that term was coined, and

1278
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: there's a passage from her book that we will quote here.

1279
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: But Sharon Jones had also been on the zero given

1280
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: tip for years as an older frontwoman competing for audiences

1281
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: with singers half her age, only to have one of

1282
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: those singers swoop her support system right from under her nose.

1283
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: Amy made a ten million selling record, and we were

1284
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: just trying to sell like a hundred thousand with Sharon.

1285
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: Dap King guitarist Tom Brannick notes his frustrated acceptance still audible.

1286
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: During the Back to Black sessions, Jones looked at wine

1287
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: House and the Dap Kings with a sense of impending

1288
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: doom and lapsed loyalty. Was she going to lose her

1289
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 1: band to an artist with broader appeal, deeper pockets, and

1290
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: a producer who recognized the canned magic of the Dap Kings.

1291
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: Jones was angry and early on indignant. I'm old enough

1292
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: to be Amy Winehouse's mother. How am I supposed to

1293
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: take a backseat to that child? She questioned? Eventually, Yeah, Eventually,

1294
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: and with significant reassurance from her fellow musicians, Jones recognized

1295
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: the boon wine, the success, and a relationship with Mark

1296
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: Ronson could be for Dap Tones wider appeal. With a

1297
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: little prodding, she regularly thanked both for recognizing the Dapkins

1298
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: soul power during interviews. Jones also understood the need to

1299
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: put her own album on pause while the wine House

1300
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: business ran its course. But Tom Brennett concedes that Sharon

1301
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: Jones and the Dap Kings attempt to ride wine houses

1302
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: coattails only worked indirectly. How could you tap into a

1303
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: young audience with forty nine year old Sharon Jones? Well,

1304
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,639
Speaker 1: if they have years, you could. Wine House and Sharon

1305
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: Jones meant during a two thousand eight Dap Kings and

1306
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: Sharon Jones performance at the Jazz Cafe in London, and

1307
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: they spent close to an hour talking jones dressing room.

1308
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 1: In an interview with The New Yorker, Jones accounted, I

1309
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: don't even want to talk about it. Instead of people

1310
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: laughing at her, pray for her. Drugs are so horrible.

1311
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: The Dap King's attitude at their sudden and somewhat controversial

1312
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: notoriety can be summed up in this anecdote. When they

1313
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: received a framed platinum record for their work on Back

1314
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:00,600
Speaker 1: to Black, which signifies over a million sales in the US,

1315
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: they hung it above the toilet in the upstairs bathroom

1316
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: of their studio. Bassist Gabriel Roth said, it was the

1317
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: only free space we had. Take that how you will,

1318
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: but there was a very nice code of the adapt

1319
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: tone story. We mentioned earlier than Amy wasn't actually present

1320
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: for the sessions with adapt Kings, and she didn't actually

1321
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: meet them until after Back to Black came out in

1322
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: the fall of two thousand and six, when she came

1323
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: to the US to make promotional appearances. The deap Kings

1324
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: stood in for her English band, and she hit it

1325
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: off with the guys immediately, and she even went out

1326
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: to Bushwick to visit them at the House of Seoul

1327
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,759
Speaker 1: or studio, which is just crazy for me now because

1328
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: it's a pretty nondescript building in a pretty nondescript area

1329
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 1: that just happens to be like a ten minute walk

1330
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,799
Speaker 1: from my apartment. So the thought of like Amy Winehouse

1331
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 1: walking around my neighborhood is really weird to me. Mark

1332
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: Ronson later told The Village Voice it was one of

1333
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: the last times I remember her just being unencumbered by

1334
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 1: any threat of drama or press or Papa Razzi. And

1335
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: it was later that day when she visited them at

1336
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: the House of Soul that they recorded her version of

1337
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: Valerie by the British fan the Zutons and Mark Ronson

1338
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: was doing an album of covers of contemporary songs, which

1339
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: was a cool idea because mostly you have albums of

1340
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: covers of old school songs that were you know, revamped,

1341
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,799
Speaker 1: So this was just fresh takes on stuff like Britney Spears,

1342
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 1: Toxic and a cold Play songs on there that the

1343
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: Dap Tones did as an mental version. Uh God, put

1344
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: a smile on your face. I think that album is

1345
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: great version. It's called um and he wanted Amy to contribute,

1346
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: which she said was a struggle for her because she

1347
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: didn't listen to anything after nineteen seven A Woman after

1348
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: My Old Heart. But eventually she suggested Valerie, which had

1349
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: been a hit in the UK in the summer of

1350
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: two thousands six. Apparently she had a bit of a

1351
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 1: pub spat with the guy and the Zutons, and before

1352
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: things escalated, she let it go when she realized who

1353
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: this guy was and that he had written the song

1354
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 1: that she actually liked. He told the enemy recently that

1355
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: moment was very personal. I like to think it's what

1356
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: pushed to record the song herself. Maybe something good camp

1357
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 1: of that stupid argument, and the Dap King spent an

1358
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: entire day working up kind of a slow version of

1359
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: that song, sort of like a Curtis Mayfield cut, which

1360
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: again I keep mentioning it surfaced on the posthumous Lioness album,

1361
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: which is a bunch of rarities, but at the end

1362
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 1: of the session, Mark Ronson suggested that they pick it

1363
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: up a bit and try a version of was a

1364
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 1: little bit more upbeat, more motowning, with a rhythm section

1365
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: part that was reminiscent of the Jams song A Town

1366
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 1: called Malice Boo Boo Boo boo. But it's got the

1367
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: same tempo, the same like bass thump the a Dap

1368
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: King's drummer Homer Steinweiss later said, somewhat tartly, that type

1369
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 1: of beat is not something we ever did. That tempo

1370
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 1: is more like the Strokes or something. So they did

1371
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: one final up tempo take, seemingly just as an afterthought,

1372
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: and that became the one. It was released in two

1373
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: thousand seven, and that was I think one of Amy's

1374
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: biggest charting hits, at least in the States. That's my favorite. Yeah,

1375
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: that's a good one. The Dap Kings played a few

1376
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 1: gigs with Amy in the States as part of the

1377
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: Back to Black launch, but sadly, I don't think they

1378
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: ever worked it through again after this, I know, considering

1379
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: his master stroke of getting the Dap Kings to play

1380
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: on her record. You would have thought that Amy would

1381
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: have trusted Mark Ronson when he said that he wanted

1382
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: to add some strings, but you'd be wrong. You may

1383
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: recall four hours ago earlier in this episode that Amy hated, hated,

1384
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:44,759
Speaker 1: hated the strings that were added to her debut album, Frank,

1385
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: and she immediately shut down the conversation every time Mark

1386
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: suggested strings for Back to Black. He later told The Fader,

1387
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: I said, Amy, the Shangri Laws, the Phil Specter stuff

1388
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: you love. It's the orchestra that's doing a lot of

1389
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: the work. And she was like, no, I think hate it.

1390
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 1: It's Disney bullsh I wish I could do an Amy

1391
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 1: Winehouse voice. He even offered to pay for the strings

1392
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: out of his own pocket, promising to remove them from

1393
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 1: the tracks if she hated them, but to no avail.

1394
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: So he had to get sneaky, and he likes to

1395
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: joke in interviews. I didn't really do them behind her back.

1396
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: I just thought, let's add strings behind her back. And

1397
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 1: the first song that they mixed back in London was

1398
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,719
Speaker 1: Love is a Losing Game, one of my favorite songs

1399
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: in the album, and torch song if there ever was

1400
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 1: one which was adorned with very tasteful moody strings. And

1401
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: Mark Ronson recalled and mojo. She had her head down

1402
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 1: on the mixing board, so I couldn't gauge your reaction.

1403
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm freaking out thinking if she doesn't like it, We're

1404
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 1: pretty At the end of this, she looks up and

1405
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: walks over, extends her arms and gives me a big hug.

1406
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: I love it. Just take the harp off the second verse.

1407
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: It sounds like some Mariah carry bull. It's emblematic of

1408
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: this thing about Amy. She can cut you down the

1409
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,799
Speaker 1: size and two seconds flat. You know. Amy was initially

1410
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: asked to do the Bond theme to a Quantum of

1411
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: soulis the Bond movie, and and I guess Mark Ronson

1412
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: said that they had recorded um some demos for it.

1413
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 1: He'd written a song for it. I think he wrote

1414
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 1: it by himself, and they've done some demos for it.

1415
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: But she this was really when she was in a

1416
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: dark period and she kind of just stopped showing up

1417
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: and it was abandoned and they got Jack White and

1418
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: Alicia Keys to do another Way to Die. You know.

1419
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: It's just I know, and Jack White took advantage of

1420
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: it because he knew that they were like hard Press,

1421
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 1: they needed a song like fairly immediately, and so he

1422
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like, they're not gonna get somebody else,

1423
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna put in some stuff that's really

1424
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: like unusual for a Bond theme, and they're not gonna

1425
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 1: have time to really like make me go back and

1426
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: redo it. So that's why it's such a kind of

1427
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: a weird Bomb theme. It's a pretty I think it's

1428
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 1: been called like the most divisive Bond theme that there is.

1429
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: I like it. A lot of people hate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1430
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: I like it. It's no it's no Skyfall, it's no

1431
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: Living Let Die, it's no Goldfinger. There's so many other

1432
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 1: good pun You Only Live Twice is my favorite. I

1433
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: don't really know where else to fit this, but I

1434
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: love that Amy always did the final listens of her

1435
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: songs to the speakers and her father, Mitch's cab, you

1436
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 1: know he said earlier as a cabby, And she always

1437
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: had the engineers or whoever burned what they've done to

1438
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,639
Speaker 1: a CD so she could play it in this car,

1439
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: because she knew that was how most people would be

1440
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,679
Speaker 1: listening to her music. Brian Wilson used to do that too. Yeah,

1441
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I wonder if she got that

1442
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: from Motown because that was what Barry Gordy had A

1443
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: had a like car speaker set up in his office

1444
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: so he could listen everything on that way. That's such

1445
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 1: a smart idea. I love that. Back to Black was

1446
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,799
Speaker 1: released on October two thousand six. It quickly went multi

1447
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 1: platinum uh most places. It was the best selling album

1448
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: of two thousand seven in the UK, is currently the

1449
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: second best selling album of the twenty one century in Britain,

1450
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,839
Speaker 1: just behind of Course, Adele, and the twelve best selling

1451
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 1: album of all time over there. The title track was

1452
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: peeking in the charts in the spring of two thousand seven,

1453
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: about the same time that Amy reunited with Blake married

1454
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: him in a small ceremony in Miami. The song would

1455
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,639
Speaker 1: re enter the charts at its highest position of number

1456
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: eight after her death in two thousand eleven. In the US,

1457
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: the album debut at number seven on Billboard, becoming the

1458
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,879
Speaker 1: highest debut chart entry for an album by British female

1459
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: solo album if I record broken a week later by

1460
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: Joss Stone, but so Yeah, Back to Back was launched

1461
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: in the US in January two thou seven with a

1462
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 1: performance at Joe's Pub in the East Village backed by

1463
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 1: the dap Kings, attended by Dr John, Most Deaf and

1464
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 1: jay Z. My door was like right around the corner.

1465
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: I don't know why, I do know why I didn't go.

1466
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 1: I had no idea what was happening, but oh that hurts.

1467
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 1: I would love to have been there. One of my

1468
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: worst didn't spend the money gigs was Dr John at

1469
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: Bam when he read or he did that record with

1470
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 1: Dan Auerbach that record smokes and then he yeah. Her

1471
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 1: debut single over here was you Know I'm No Good

1472
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: with a guest feature by ghost Face Killer. E W

1473
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 1: named it the second best song of the year under

1474
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: Brihanna's umbrella Yeah Uh. In the US, Rehab had a

1475
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 1: remix with jay Z, and presumably the label thought that

1476
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: her whole jazz soul girl group retro thing wasn't going

1477
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: to play well over here, and they were positioning her

1478
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: to be a kind of chorus hook singing artist. The

1479
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,480
Speaker 1: interesting thing about that is that in the Amy documentary,

1480
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: she leaves a voicemail on salam Remy's phone talking about

1481
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: coming up with battle raps. Those are her words, and

1482
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 1: considering that as a future direction. Possibly probably she was kidding,

1483
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: but you know still, uh, we just talked about the

1484
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: bomb theme. I would love to hear whatever demos of

1485
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: that exists, but Mark Ronson has said that it would

1486
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:01,959
Speaker 1: take quote a miracle of science to finish it, so sadly,

1487
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 1: it seems like we're not gonna hear that anytime soon.

1488
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: And Bruce Willis was notably such a fan that he

1489
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: insisted on introducing her when she performed Rehab at the

1490
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: two thousand seven MTV Movie Awards. That is a two

1491
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: thousand seven sentence ghost face killer Bruce Willis, Bruno Toffy.

1492
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 1: Remember Bruce Willis's record was called The Return and he

1493
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 1: did a song with the Temptations and they're like backing him,

1494
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 1: and you could see on all their faces they're just like,

1495
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:35,600
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? Like, we're back in this guy.

1496
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,919
Speaker 1: Amy Winehouse was nominated for six Grammys at the fiftieth

1497
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 1: Annual Grammys in two thousand eight, including the Big Four

1498
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,799
Speaker 1: Album of the Year, Song of the Year for Rehab,

1499
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,599
Speaker 1: Record of the Year for Rehab, and Best New Artist,

1500
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: as well as the Best Pop Vocal Album and Best

1501
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 1: Female Vocal Performance. She won five, tying her for the

1502
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: record at the time for most Grammys one in a

1503
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: single night by a female. Would that have been Nora Jones?

1504
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: H a bunch? I think Lauren Hill quite a few

1505
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 1: at one five before? Shockingly, the only Grammy she lost

1506
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: was Album of the Year. What was it? This one's

1507
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: for all the marbles. That's a great question. I are

1508
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: you pulling it up? Um? Okay, so wait a minute.

1509
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: This would have been two thousand. It's it's not what

1510
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: you think it is. Sounds Nope, give me the smallest

1511
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: hint you can. Clive Davis bait. Oh is it some

1512
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: kind of Alicia Keys album? Close? I don't know. It

1513
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: was Rivers the Joni Letters by Herbie Hancock that one

1514
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 1: Album of the Year. Sure did No. I don't believe you.

1515
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: I don't believe you. It's terrible looking at it in retrospect.

1516
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: The other nominees were Foo Fighters and Vince Gill and

1517
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: then Graduation so In by Kanye So in retrospect we

1518
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: would have thought it would be Back to Black or Graduation,

1519
01:20:56,400 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: But that is correct. Herbie Hancock's album of cover of

1520
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:06,479
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell songs featuring Leonard Cohen and Nora Jones. But

1521
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: that's the Karn Bailey Ray record was a great album

1522
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. That Karinn Bailey Ray that's the least indicative

1523
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 1: album of two thousand eight or seven or whatever year

1524
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: was that I could possibly imagine? Yeah, how about that? Okay?

1525
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: I I didn't think this would hit me so deep.

1526
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: Um Famously, Amy was barred from entering the United States

1527
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 1: due to legal issues surrounding her drug use, so for

1528
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: the first time, the Grammys had a performance beamed in

1529
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 1: via satellite, which gives an indication of how important she

1530
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 1: was at the time. The look of genuine shock on

1531
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 1: her face in the clip where she wins Record of

1532
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: the Year by her idol Tony Bennett. It's it's a

1533
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 1: lot to take in. Have you seen it? I think

1534
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 1: you sent it to me at one point, and yeah,

1535
01:21:54,360 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 1: I watched it. It's it's it's hard. Yeah, it's so sweet. Yeah. Yeah.

1536
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: If this anecdote is too hard, free, I can take

1537
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, you gotta do it. That's a that's

1538
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: a that is a literary gut punch. Yeah, you think

1539
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,080
Speaker 1: that this would be the best night of her life.

1540
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: She's made Grammy history without even having to leave London.

1541
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: She's being honored by her hero, Tony Bennett. Her parents

1542
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 1: are right there in front of her breakup album as

1543
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 1: a hit all over the world, and she even reunited

1544
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:29,759
Speaker 1: with the guy who inspired it and they are now married.

1545
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: But one of her childhood best friends had a different

1546
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: view of the night. Just after winning these awards, Amy

1547
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: waved her over and she expected Amy to gush with happiness,

1548
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: but instead she just said, this is so boring without drugs,

1549
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: And to me, that might just be the saddest anecdote

1550
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 1: in this entire story. Nothing fills that hole, Yeah, exactly.

1551
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,600
Speaker 1: There is a that's a continue with the emotional pile on.

1552
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: There is a bone chilling title card at the end

1553
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 1: of the two thousand eighteen classic Albums documentary on Back

1554
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: to Black to Meet. It's up there with Hemingway's six

1555
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 1: words short story baby Shoes in terms of succinct devastation.

1556
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: You know, for sale, baby shoes never worn. This is

1557
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:20,759
Speaker 1: just as much of a of a very succinct gut punch.

1558
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 1: Back to Black has sold sixteen million albums. Amy and

1559
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 1: Blake got back together in two thousand seven. Amy never

1560
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: made another album. She died in two thousand eleven. What

1561
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: a it's on an epitaph, but what a cold hard

1562
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: facts are unusually cold and hard. We can't go out

1563
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: on such a downer. Uh. In addition to giving renewed

1564
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:48,719
Speaker 1: commercial viability to soulful singers like a Dale, Florence Welch,

1565
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:52,599
Speaker 1: Sam Smith, Little Boots, Duffy Pluma, Faith and you Can't

1566
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 1: Even Know You Lana del Rey, Amy songs inspired a

1567
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: host of covers across the genre. Beyonce and Andre three

1568
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 1: thousand covered to Black for bos Lerman's Great Gatsby Remake,

1569
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 1: a cover that Amy's father, Mitch aided, saying that Beyonce

1570
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: didn't bring anything to it, that's his quote, and grumbled

1571
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: that he wasn't asked permission. Prince used to sing love

1572
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 1: as a losing game during his gigs, and uh Amy

1573
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: once joined him on stage to perform it together, which

1574
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: I think is cool. And the great rockabilly pioneer Wanda

1575
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 1: Jackson did you know I'm no good? That song rips?

1576
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: You should hear that. That one's great. And Ronnie Specter

1577
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 1: recorded a version of back to Black subbing in a

1578
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 1: new Word for Dick in the verse, which I love. Um.

1579
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 1: I think that's a beautiful bee Hive to bee Hive

1580
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: tribute to a young woman who looked up to her

1581
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: very much. After all this, I feel like we should

1582
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 1: give Amy the final word. She once said, I wrote

1583
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: an album that I'm really proud of about a bad

1584
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 1: situation that I got through, And that's pretty much where

1585
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 1: it begins and ends for me, taking something ugly and

1586
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: making something beautiful that gives hope to others. I uh,

1587
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better way to use art.

1588
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:10,800
Speaker 1: Well said, do a wellness check on everybody listening right now.

1589
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: It's really no sunny face to put on this episode.

1590
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 1: That's usually our job here, but just go listen to

1591
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: the music. Yeah, oh my god, Yeah, that's why it's there. Well, folks,

1592
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This has been too much information.

1593
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan Runtalk. We'll catch you

1594
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 1: next time. Too Much Information was a production of I

1595
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and

1596
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: Jordan run Talk. The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder. June.

1597
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 1: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan run

1598
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 1: Talk and Alex Hegel, with original music by Seth Applebaum

1599
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,719
Speaker 1: and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard,

1600
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts

1601
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: on iHeart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

1602
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite show. And as

1603
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 1: atent that that nan at black Fast int