1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Hi, it's ukshot. Among the many fights that happened at 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: COP thirty, there was an unusual one between Turkey and 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Australia to host COP thirty one. In this bonus episode 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Australia, managing editors Rebecca Jones and David Stringer 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: tell you how the fight played out and what it 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: means for next YEAR'SCOP zero. Will be back with a 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: fresh episode soon. 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 2: There's been some big climate news and a bit of 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: a plot twist. 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 3: That's sane and disappointed. That's the premiers reaction to Australia's 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: fouls bited hosting next year is COP Climate summat hero 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 3: in Adelaide. It's a major blow to the state and 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 3: its budget. 14 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 4: The Liberal Shadow Ministry has agreed to dump net zero 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 4: by twenty fifty from the party's platform. The group agreed 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 4: to scrap net zero from the Climate Change Acts and 17 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 4: repeal Labour's twenty thirty emissions reduction target. The Liberal Party 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 4: has just taken a huge gamble in a weekenned political position, 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 4: and under pressure from the Nationals, the net zero target 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 4: is now gone. 21 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast, 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: where each week we go behind the biggest stories shaping 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,279 Speaker 2: Australia's place in global business. Well, there was a time 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: not too long ago in Australia that climate was a 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: hot button topic, dominating both politics and business. Not so 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: much lately. So you would be forgiven for thinking the 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: climate question had been somehow quietly resolved. But you would 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: be wrong, and for two reasons. Last week we saw 29 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: the Coalition opposition finally making up its mind about net zero, 30 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: and as that was happening, the Australian government made a 31 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: bid to host the next big Climate cop summit and 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: failed to lassu in these two news events from the 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: headlines and explained to us what they mean for the 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: future of Australia's position on climate and what it might 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: mean for our energy bills. This week, I'm delighted to 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: welcome David Stringer to the podcast. David is the managing 37 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: editor of ESG and Climate Coverage in Asia for Bloomberg News. David, 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to the pod. 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me again, appreciate it. 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: So where do we even start? You know, politicians meet 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: all the livelong day to discuss stuff, right, what was 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: so important to Australia about being the host of this 43 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: COP summit next year. 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, we start with lots and lots 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: of acronyms in the climate space, and the chief among 46 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: them COP. You know what even is COP. Yeah, it's 47 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: the Conference of the Parties, or essentially the decision making 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: body of the United Nations Convention on Climate Change. And 49 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: so what does that mean? Well, in short, it's the 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: process through which almost two hundred countries try and make 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: progress in tackling climate change. And it's perhaps best known 52 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: for these two week long summits each Novem, but certainly 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: in the at the end of the year, the most 54 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 3: famous example of which was in Paris ten years ago 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: this year when nations actually agreed to the Paris Accord, 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 3: that legally binding treaty to take action to limit global warming. So, 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, we just saw the most recent conference 58 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 3: wrap up in the Amazonian city of bellm in Brazil, 59 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 3: you know, and there were lots of big ticket items 60 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 3: on the agenda, pushing nations on more ambitious emissions reduction 61 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: and various other things. But there was this major and 62 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,119 Speaker 3: somewhat unexpected subplot. Who would host the talks this time 63 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: next year in November twenty twenty six. 64 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: And right, and that's not us because we bid, but 65 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: we failed. 66 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: What happened quite I mean, it's important to stress this 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: has been really unusual. This is usually a very dare 68 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: i say, dull, orderly process, but for next year, in 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: for Australia's case, it simply wasn't. 70 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: So. 71 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: We saw shortly after the Labour part government was elected 72 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, they signaled they wanted Australia and 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: the Pacific Island Nations to bid for COP thirty one, 74 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: the thirty first edition of COP the twenty twenty six meeting. 75 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: Why did they do that, Well, the Labor government was 76 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 3: trying to reprioritize climate action, to sort of reassert Australia 77 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: as a positive force in climate diplomacy. You know, this 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: was seen as a big opportunity not only for Australia 79 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: but for the Pacific, you know. And two reasons. They're 80 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 3: really one to highlight the experience of Pacific nations who 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: are really at the front end, you know, they're at 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: the front line of experiencing climate change. They also want 83 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: much more funding to help them mitigate those impacts and 84 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: to build their resilience, and of course the Pacific is 85 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: also a real political battleground. 86 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: You know. 87 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: For Australia, this was an opportunity to win favor with 88 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 3: the Pacific at a time when China is seeking to 89 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 3: build its alliances there. So the process should have been simple. 90 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: Within cop Within the UN convention process, there are regional groupings. 91 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: Typically one country puts themselves forward, they're rubber stamped, and 92 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: they become the host of whatever year's meeting. Very unusually 93 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: this time around, Australia and Turkey, both members of here's 94 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: another acronym, WEOG, the Western European and Others group, both 95 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 3: put themselves forward and they wouldn't compromise. Really, this is 96 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 3: dragged on, not for months, but years, you know, since 97 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: roughly twenty twenty two. We've even seen Australia's Prime Minister Albanesi, 98 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: Turkey's President Urdigan. They've exchanged letters. Every effort made essentially 99 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: to us one side to back down has failed. Why 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: is that important because this needs to be a unanimous decision. 101 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 3: And so it dragged on even into Brazil, even into 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: those two weeks in Belem, we even saw Australia and 103 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 3: Turkey they had rival national pavilions. Imagine a giant trade fair, 104 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: huge trade show, and would you know it, Australia and 105 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: Turkey virtually facing each other, both handing out coffee, Australia 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: with you know, a barista handing out latised Turkey with 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 3: with with good strong Turkish coffee, trying to woo delegates. 108 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 3: They needed essentially one of the countries to pull out, 109 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: to withdraw because the compromise option was going to default 110 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: to bond where the un F Triple C, the decision 111 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: making body is based. Germany said, no way, We're not hosting. 112 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 3: We don't want to have that burden, and essentially it 113 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: was left in the in the final hours really of 114 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: this most recent cop for Australia to back down and 115 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 3: to put forward a pretty unusual arrangement to UH to 116 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 3: settle this issue, which leaves Turkey and in fact the 117 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: Turkish resort town of Antalia, as the host, and it 118 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: leaves Adelaide, which would have hosted it here, as the loser. 119 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: I have so many questions, not least of which is 120 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: how the heck does Australia and Turkey, geographically not close 121 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: to one another, end up in the same bracket. But 122 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: maybe that's more to be filed away with my why 123 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: is Australia a participant in the Eurovision song contest one 124 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: for another day. Australia's Climate Change and Energy Minister, Chris 125 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: Bow and at least another of the Pacific nations is 126 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: going to be taking roles in these upcoming climate talks 127 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: next to you, under this deal that's been struck with Turkey, 128 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: can you tell us how they will be involved in 129 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: this very unusual situation. 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: And it really is unprecedented, And we had this curious 131 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: sight in these sort of early hours on Sunday here 132 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: in Australia, sort of in the afternoon on Saturday in 133 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: belm of Chris Bow and the Australian minister is Turkish counterpart, 134 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: and then three Pacific ministers from there's a whole crowd 135 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: of people on stage, all of whom are supposed to 136 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 3: have a role here. And you know, to any observer 137 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: you couldn't help thinking, well, goodness me, how on earth 138 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: is this going to work? Well, here's how it's going to. 139 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 3: Turkey will host the event. It will you know, physically 140 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 3: have not only a meeting of world leaders, which to 141 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: you know this year took place slightly in advance of 142 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: the negotiations themselves. It will then host the two weeks 143 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: of actual technical negotiations. Chris Bowen, as Australia's representative, will 144 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 3: essentially be in charge of those negotiations. He will be 145 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: the appointee, the person trying to corral nations to decide 146 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: on text, to work out what are they going to 147 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 3: commit to in terms of achieving the objectives they've outlined 148 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: on climate action. You know, the very difficult task of 149 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: wrangling these incredibly long winded, detailed texts that nations eventually adopt, 150 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 3: really difficult, never goes to plan. It always ends up 151 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: in negotiations that last into the very early hours of 152 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: the final day. Happened again last week in Brazil. So 153 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: Chris Bowen Australia will be in charge of the actual 154 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: substance of the meeting. Turkey will host the event. It'll 155 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: get all of the benefit in terms of potential more investment, tourism, 156 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: a focus on Turkey and its own plans for the 157 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: Pacific region as an still to be decided Pacific nation 158 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: will host an additional meeting. Essentially, they'll host an event 159 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: ahead of cop in November where the issues the experience 160 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 3: of the Pacific will be brought to the fore and 161 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: it may well end up being some kind of vehicle 162 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: through which other nations can pledge additional funding. Anthony Albanesi 163 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: has insisted he'll invite other world leaders to attend that event, 164 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: so it raises the prospect that it could be quite 165 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 3: high profile. That seems unlikely, but clearly there's a desire 166 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: within Australia to make this a really serious, a serious 167 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 3: mechanism to highlight the experience of the Pacific. 168 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: And do we have any idea what Pacific nations would 169 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: be in the running for that? And it sounds to 170 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: me like some sort of rehearsal dinner of sorts to 171 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: the main event. 172 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely a great analogy. No we don't. I mean, 173 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: what we do know is the Solomon Islands, Palau, Vanuatu, 174 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: you know, they're all they've all been nations that have 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: been very involved in this process in the past. You know, 176 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: we've seen Fiji not physically host a cop event but 177 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: actors in a way, as Bowen's going to do, act 178 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: as a kind of president of negotiations. But at this 179 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 3: point we don't know where that will take place. 180 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: And you know, even with these concessions. I'm interested in, 181 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: you know, digging a little deeper into what extent this 182 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: is seen as a missed opportunity for Australia, you know, 183 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: both for the efforts to accelerate climate action, but also 184 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: for the great state of South Australia. 185 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 3: No quite, and I think South Australia will be you know, 186 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: bitterly disappointed. You know, they had done their own calculations 187 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 3: and forecast that at a minimum they expected to receive 188 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: about another five hundred million Australian dollars of investment in 189 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: the state. That's through increased trade, through tourism. Having the spotlight, 190 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 3: having the global attention for that two week period on 191 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 3: South Australia would almost inevitably have helped catalyze more investment 192 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: and more investment into the state and into Australia's energy transition. 193 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,479 Speaker 3: And so that is clearly a downside now that opportunity 194 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: has been lost, you know, and there were lots of 195 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: ambitions to help use the event in Australia to push 196 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: for things like a global solar rooftop initiative where the 197 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 3: experience of Australia and as we've talked about on this 198 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: podcast before, one in three rooftops has solar panels in Australia, 199 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: you know, to try and push that and to see 200 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: some benefit from there. There was also going to be 201 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: a focus probably on things like greener supply chains for 202 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 3: critical minerals, something of course Australia could have taken advantage of, 203 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 3: so for South Australia, for Australia more broadly, it will 204 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 3: definitely be seen as a missed opportunity. 205 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: And one of the other things I imagined that it 206 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: would have brought into focused is, you know, a renewal 207 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: of this political divide that we have here as it 208 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: relates to climate. I want to ask you how the 209 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: Albanese government has really been going on its own zero ambitions, because, 210 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 2: as you mentioned earlier, this was the horse they rode 211 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: in on in twenty twenty two. It was touted by 212 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 2: some as the climate election for their party. How have 213 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 2: they performed so far. 214 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 3: In terms of making commitments. They've done what they said 215 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: they would do. You know, they led very soon after 216 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: taking office, the Albanese government legislated and at zero target. 217 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: As recently as September. You know, we've seen Australia pledge 218 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 3: additional action. This was the year when under the cop process, 219 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 3: all of those countries that were signatory to the Paris 220 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: Agreement were supposed to come forward with more ambitious plans 221 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 3: to cut their emissions by twenty thirty five. Australia's pledged 222 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: to do that, to cut green ascasm between sixty two 223 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: percent and seventy percent by twenty thirty five. It's certainly 224 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 3: kind of ambitious, you know, probably better than we might 225 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 3: have seen before, and almost there are thereabout sort of 226 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: in line with what you'd expect to put Australia on 227 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 3: a path to meet its net zero target by mid century. However, 228 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 3: I think, you know, lots of opponents of the actions 229 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: of this government would point to other factors. The Australian 230 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 3: government is one that has continued to approve coal mining projects, 231 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 3: It's approved extensions to fossil fuel projects, you know, and 232 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 3: most notably a big decision that was made just a 233 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: couple of months ago on the Northwest Shelf, the country's 234 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: biggest gas export projects, its life was extended to potentially 235 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 3: as long as twenty seventy. That was a huge disappointment 236 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: for advocates of climate action, for campaigners who have been 237 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: looking to government to limit the future role of fossil 238 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 3: fuels rather than, as they see it, extend the life 239 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 3: of Australia's fossil fuel export industries. 240 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: So, just as Albanese's officials were trying to woo the UN, 241 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party has dropped its commitment to hit net 242 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 2: zero emissions by twenty fifty David, Why do they think 243 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: that is a vote winner? 244 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: As you said, the main opposition Liberal parties sort of 245 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: ditched that commitment to hit net zero. And really the 246 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: fact that we went into the last election in Australia 247 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: with both the two major parties both agree great yeah 248 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 3: on climate policy, was that was the That was the aberration, right, 249 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: you know, rather than this. You know, we've been so 250 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: used to climate, climate policy, energy policy being a point 251 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: of distinction. You know, it's almost unsurprising that we're back 252 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: in the situation where now the main opposition Liberal Party 253 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: you know, don't support net zero. Now why is that 254 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: they do think that this will resonate with voters. The 255 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: argument that they will mounta and I'm sure we'll see 256 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: this argument taken into the next national election, is that 257 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: the commitments to decarbonize involve enormous investment, not only in 258 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: replacing coal fire power punts with solar and wind farms, 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: but huge commitment to upgrade Australia's energy infrastructure, transmission lines, 260 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: power grids, adding giant battery storage farms that can help 261 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: you know, maintain you know, the flow of electricity and 262 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: to mitigate some of the intermittency issues with renewables. So 263 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: their argument is that will show up on household bills 264 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 3: and this will add to existing cost of living pressures 265 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: and that you know, their policy is by not being 266 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: wedded to meet at zero by twenty fifty, by not 267 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 3: having these very firm targets, they'll give themselves, you know, 268 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 3: more ability to be flexible and to try and conduct 269 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: the energy transition in a way that keeps costs lower. 270 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: And does that necessarily translate out to a longer timeline, right, 271 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: because we're almost in twenty twenty six, so that's twenty 272 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: four years to get those things done. Surely, over that 273 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: kind of length of time it's enough to absorb some 274 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: of these financial shocks that will come with the transition 275 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: quite and. 276 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: I think you know what we've seen from from Susan Lay, 277 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: from the opposition leader and the Liberal Party is you know, 278 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 3: they said they don't want to be tied to our 279 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: specific target, specific year. You know, they have said, you know, 280 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 3: it's perfectly conceivable that they achieve net zero within that 281 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: time frame. It's just they think the straight jacket of 282 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 3: meeting a particular target doesn't give them the flexibility to 283 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 3: carry that out in a way that they would argue 284 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: is cheapest. Now, I'm sure yet again, and we will 285 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 3: go into another election where this is a political football 286 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 3: because on one side, you know, we will have the 287 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: argument put forward that keeping inefficient aging coal and you know, 288 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 3: to lesser degree gas infrastructure running is the thing that's 289 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 3: adding to our energy bills. They are less reliable, particularly 290 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 3: the cult plants, and that's the thing that's pressuring prices, 291 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 3: you know, along with the spikes in natural gas and 292 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: coal that we saw that have nothing to do with 293 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 3: Australia but you know, all to do with the impact 294 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. On the other hand, we'll 295 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: have proponents of a looser climate policy who will argue 296 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: that shifting quickly to solar wind batteries an upgraded grid 297 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 3: that's too expensive to voters will be which they you know, 298 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: whether climate or energy bills, you know, are their priority, 299 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: and whether they argue whether they believe an argument that 300 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 3: the cost of faster climate action really will show up 301 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 3: on their bill. 302 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: And just on that, David, let's bring it closer to home. 303 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: What do these renewed climate wars and you know, potential 304 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 2: investment uncertainty that Australia is facing ultimately mean for your 305 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: power bill. 306 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 3: I mean it's a difficult one to answer, you know, 307 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: in truth you mentioned investment. You know what we have 308 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 3: seen and what investors tell us and big offshore global 309 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: investors who put money to work in you know, whether 310 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: it is renewable energy, whether it's grid infrastructure. They want 311 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 3: policy certainty and we've seen that reflect in the numbers. 312 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 3: You know, since the current Labor government have taken office 313 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: and of course subsequently one another election, there has been 314 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: a degree of potaty that has seen a rebound in 315 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: investment into Australia's energy transition. Now it's arguable whether that 316 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 3: is something that has translated through to power bills. Of course, 317 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: advocates would say you have to invest now to reap 318 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 3: the benefits in the medium and longer term. What I 319 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: think we can say with some degree of certainty is 320 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 3: if you delay that investment. If that investment declines because 321 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: of policy tensions arising again, the impact isn't going to 322 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 3: be positive. We're not. It's not going to bring our 323 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 3: power bills down any faster by having less investment rather 324 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 3: than more in Australia's energy transition. 325 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 2: If you found today's conversation insightful, be sure to follow 326 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Australia Podcast wherever you listen, and check for 327 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: more reading on Australia's journey to net zero, including the 328 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: latest from David Stringer and his team at Bloomberg dot Com. 329 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: This episode was recorded on the traditional lands of the 330 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: will Wondery People. It was produced by Marafool Hussain and 331 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: edited by Chris Burke and Ainsley Champer. I'm Rebecca Jones 332 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: and we'll see you next week.