Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 4: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, that's messed up an sv podcast. My name is Lisa,
Speaker 2: I am the host of the show. I am the
Speaker 2: other host of the show, and my name is Kara.
Speaker 2: And you guys should have the GISTs by now. This
Speaker 2: is episode seven thousand. We recap an amazing episode of SVU.
Speaker 1: We talked about the true crimes based on and then
Speaker 1: we talked to some incredible guests who had something to
Speaker 1: do with the show, either acting or in some other capacity.
Speaker 3: And you know, today's no different.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a question outside of a SVU of course.
Speaker 2: Oh oh go I you know, I have some weddings
Speaker 2: this year and I found some dresses that were being
Speaker 2: instagrammed down my throat is a trashy to message the
Speaker 2: company and just be like, am I cool enough?
Speaker 3: Will you give me these dresses or what? Like? I
Speaker 3: have a check mark.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I just kind of want to
Speaker 2: hit them up and be like, I have some events
Speaker 2: coming up. I'm like, do I have enough followers for
Speaker 2: you to hook me up?
Speaker 1: Or what?
Speaker 3: I say, why not? What's the worst?
Speaker 2: They say, no, right, I think I have to because
Speaker 2: you know, they're three hundred and fifty dollars dresses, and
Speaker 2: I feel like I would, I don't want to. I would,
Speaker 2: I will buy them, but I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, just be like I'm going to be
Speaker 1: extensively photographed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are sharing weover. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that you should have no shame, go for
Speaker 1: it and then fill us in, keep us updated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll fill you in. I just like, it's like,
Speaker 2: just give me the dresses. Just give them to me,
Speaker 2: Give me the dresses. That's what I have to say.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, that's so funny. I feel like
Speaker 1: my weddings. I used to go to nine weddings a year,
Speaker 1: and now I'm like it's like trickle trickle, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I had one last year that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be we all watched it on zoom together, like it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be, you know, a live wedding, and
Speaker 1: then now it's like, yeah, I don't even know, Oh
Speaker 1: why am my brother's wedding in the fall?
Speaker 2: But that's it, you know, No, I'm down to one
Speaker 2: or two a year, but I never did it in
Speaker 2: my twenties. Really like I just to sprinkle, and now
Speaker 2: this is my most busy wedding year, so it's pretty firing.
Speaker 2: And then I guess pre pandemic. I went to a couple,
Speaker 2: but I yeah, I'm excited. I think even like when
Speaker 2: I showed up to Noah and Ester's wedding in Denver.
Speaker 2: They were like, wow, you really came, and I was like, yeah, bitch,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what you wanted because Esther goes, oh,
Speaker 2: I checked the ticket prices for planes, and I would
Speaker 2: have never come to this wedding, like she even told
Speaker 2: she even did it in her wedding speech. Thank you,
Speaker 2: was like she was like, thanks everyone, I would have
Speaker 2: never flown to any of your weddings for the prices
Speaker 2: it costs and what's like wild price ticket like plane
Speaker 2: ticket prices.
Speaker 3: But I did it. I don't know when I was
Speaker 3: happy to be there. Yeah. No, I love weddings like
Speaker 3: I really think I shine at a wedding.
Speaker 2: I love them, chats, dancing, snacks, love, sincerity like a bar, yes,
Speaker 2: like open bars, photo boots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. Kids. Not being welcome. I mean
Speaker 3: so many of my favorite things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think children will be at any of
Speaker 1: these weddings I'm a part of. Yeah, my brother just
Speaker 1: had to send a follow up email like, ooh, I
Speaker 1: think some of you got the wrong idea about the
Speaker 1: save the date your kids.
Speaker 3: Are not invited. No, And I was like so young
Speaker 3: at my sister's wedding.
Speaker 2: I was in sixth grade and it was fun obviously,
Speaker 2: but like her husband's brother was teen years and he
Speaker 2: got hammered. I remember him singing Enrique Iglesias at the
Speaker 2: end of the night, just like bumbling through. But I
Speaker 2: think that's where people first get wasted. Family wedding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was this. I didn't really ever try this.
Speaker 3: But did you ever get drunk at a barmetzvah or
Speaker 3: about mitzvah?
Speaker 1: No? No, I feel like some people do that though
Speaker 1: they like go, they figure out ways to get like
Speaker 1: Shirley temples and like get booze into them or something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: I remember drinking in eighth grade.
Speaker 1: No, me neither, but some kids do, and like fucking
Speaker 1: Shirley temples were my obsessions, so I would never want
Speaker 1: to add alcohol to them. Like I was just like
Speaker 1: give me load my like inject those Maraschino cherries into
Speaker 1: my veins, you know.
Speaker 3: But like I bet you some.
Speaker 1: Kids like fucking try to turn up when their parents
Speaker 1: aren't looking at bought Mitzvahs and bar Mitzvah's right.
Speaker 3: Not, I hope not.
Speaker 2: But I guess I knew kids smoking weed and junior high.
Speaker 2: But I don't think they're doing great now, Like I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, you can't. It's not good to be that
Speaker 3: cool that young. Why it just start drinking.
Speaker 2: I mean I did take like a shot in sixth
Speaker 2: grade because I found my sister's like stuff, and like
Speaker 2: we did a thing. But in terms of like, ooh,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go drink, I would say, hi, like junior year,
Speaker 2: junior year.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna yeah.
Speaker 2: I had like a rough, tough swim season, and then
Speaker 2: I decided to go into weed and alcohol.
Speaker 3: I needed a break.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I my A lot of my friends did
Speaker 1: start drinking in eighth grade, and I was like so anti.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, we can't do that. And then
Speaker 1: by the end of ninth grade, I was fully drinking.
Speaker 1: And but I didn't start smoking weed really until like
Speaker 1: summer after sophomore year. Like for some reason, I like
Speaker 1: summer after sophomore year, I spoked weed. I didn't get
Speaker 1: high because you know they used to say like, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't get high your first time. And then I
Speaker 1: think junior year I started smoking weed and getting high,
Speaker 1: but you know I waited a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I love that Yellow Jacket's part when
Speaker 2: like Shaunas revealed that she's pregnant and then one of
Speaker 2: the girls goes, you had sex, And that's how I
Speaker 2: felt that young where you would be like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you're sucking dick and you're twelve, Like it was kind
Speaker 2: of wild.
Speaker 3: I wasn't getting wasted in junior high. I don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe I was a loser, Like I don't
Speaker 2: remember people getting wasted at bar and bat mitzvahs that
Speaker 2: I frequent.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think you're a loser.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I've heard about the Barbomitzvah thing,
Speaker 1: but I do know that like eighth I mean I
Speaker 1: was going to Barbomitzvah, was in the seventh grade, and
Speaker 1: then like in eighth grade, people were starting to dabble,
Speaker 1: and I remember it with some of my good friends,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you guys, like, don't do that.
Speaker 3: That's bad. Like I was really upset.
Speaker 1: And then by the end of ninth grade, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: vodka tastes fine with OJ.
Speaker 2: You know, like, but no, I would like chug it.
Speaker 2: I would get way too wasted. That was the problem.
Speaker 2: We would all just like chug the vodka. Like you
Speaker 2: just don't even know what the fuck you're doing with anything.
Speaker 2: But Shirmy Temple's with vodka are delicious.
Speaker 1: Now I have done, yes, yes, well, probably because we're
Speaker 1: gonna put good vodka in it too, right, Like I
Speaker 1: think that the like the way we used to do
Speaker 1: it in high school or whatever was like, you know,
Speaker 1: pop off like potato vodka for like ten dollars a
Speaker 1: gallon or whatever.
Speaker 3: And it was nasty. They're called dirty Shirley's in case
Speaker 3: you go, yeah, dirty Shirley's. That's wow. Spoke that's what
Speaker 3: got them going.
Speaker 1: My friend sophs partner Annalise loves a dirty Shirley and
Speaker 1: we used to drink them in San Diego.
Speaker 2: Yep, dirty Shirly I like that. That's so exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: cocktails are great. I've do you know that.
Speaker 3: I was looking up Shirley Temple the other day. This
Speaker 3: is weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was looking up Shirley Temple
Speaker 1: other day because I was trying to like write a
Speaker 1: joke that had something about Shirley Temple in it, and
Speaker 1: like she is like the only child star that had
Speaker 1: an okay life, Like Shirley Temple lived until she was
Speaker 1: like eighty five, no alcohol problems, no drug problem, like.
Speaker 2: Just a Do you think it's because she was famous
Speaker 2: for a little bit of time and then disappeared, like
Speaker 2: she didn't continue or what I.
Speaker 1: Think, Well, she didn't keep acting, but I think she
Speaker 1: was still like active, like like publicly, like I saw
Speaker 1: photos of her as an old woman, like out at events,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like I don't think she
Speaker 1: went fully underground, but like most child stars have some
Speaker 1: kind of little problem, you know, and like, yeah, surely
Speaker 1: Temple just skated by, she tapped danced by, And.
Speaker 3: How are your tap classes going? VT? Debs.
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to go last week, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'll be back on the horse sucking at it again
Speaker 1: this week.
Speaker 3: No, it's important to suck at stuff.
Speaker 1: I just like, first of all, it's it's not that
Speaker 1: physically taxing on me for some reason, like I don't
Speaker 1: get super sweaty and it doesn't make me sore or anything.
Speaker 1: But I am also not great at it, so it's
Speaker 1: like it feels like I'm forcing my brain to work
Speaker 1: in a different way.
Speaker 3: And I kind of like that.
Speaker 2: But you know this idea that you have to be
Speaker 2: good at everything, Like sometimes it's just like you could
Speaker 2: just do it.
Speaker 1: Like some people are like, when's the recital, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: there isn't one, and I wouldn't do it if there was.
Speaker 2: One, Like I don't, so it's like I think it's
Speaker 2: just to adults dance recital.
Speaker 3: I mean that would be a.
Speaker 1: Low no exist because when I worked at the USA network,
Speaker 1: my boss, who was like an executive at USA, was
Speaker 1: doing adults haap and was like, my recitals this weekend
Speaker 1: and I was like, whoa, that's like.
Speaker 2: Meg Stalter's character and hacks when she's like, oh, my
Speaker 2: ballet thing. So but I wonder if that's someone who
Speaker 2: also worked at USA, like worked on the show and
Speaker 2: connected at all, or people are just funny funny writers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is funny because it's like they asked I
Speaker 1: go to the same school dance school as my child.
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned that, and so like they're having
Speaker 1: a recital, which I did not sign her up for
Speaker 1: because it's one hundred dollars and Rosie doesn't do anything,
Speaker 1: like she will not follow instructions or do any of
Speaker 1: the moves.
Speaker 3: I'm not like going to pay to like see that.
Speaker 1: So I just didn't even consider that there would be
Speaker 1: one for the adults.
Speaker 2: So I cannot believe you're not paying for the recital.
Speaker 2: I also can't believe you have to pay for a recital.
Speaker 1: One hundred dollars and I will in like a year
Speaker 1: or two years, Like she just needs to be a
Speaker 1: little bit older, Like she just goes and fucks off,
Speaker 1: you know, Like there's no way I'm paying to see
Speaker 1: her like run across the stage and like not do
Speaker 1: the dance.
Speaker 3: You know, but I'm sure it'll be cute now.
Speaker 2: The photo of her with her little friends is cute. Also,
Speaker 2: Rosie on a pony was very cute.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, full horse girl. She fun on it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, elated, And I was worried she was
Speaker 1: going to get nervous because Rosie talks a big game
Speaker 1: and then when something like actually comes up, she gets
Speaker 1: scared and like they strap you to this pony, and
Speaker 1: she felt like sturdy and.
Speaker 3: Was just having the time of her life. It was great.
Speaker 3: I'm very happy for her living a good life. She's
Speaker 3: going to start journaling soon.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: One more thing.
Speaker 1: We are going to be on tour this weekend in
Speaker 1: both Seattle and Portland. We had two shows in Seattle
Speaker 1: on the ninth of April, but they sold out, so
Speaker 1: we did add another show on Friday, April eighth, So
Speaker 1: if you live in the Seattle area, please come see us.
Speaker 3: That Friday show still has tickets available.
Speaker 1: And then on Sunday the tenth, we are in Portland
Speaker 1: at the Aladdin. All of this information is available at
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up live dot com, or you can check
Speaker 1: the link in our Instagram bio or all of our
Speaker 1: Instagram has all flyers for all these places. Contact the
Speaker 1: venues directly. Whatever you guys want to do, just come
Speaker 1: see us live. We'd love to see you. Should we
Speaker 1: get started on today's episode?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Please, Yeah, We've got a really good one this week.
Speaker 1: A classic.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into this episode. I would say
Speaker 2: a classic, a favorite. This is one of the funniest
Speaker 2: episodes of SVU and All History.
Speaker 3: I cannot wait.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's molestation of children, but it's pretty funny,
Speaker 2: not the melestation part. You'll know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: We're doing Sick season five, episode nineteen. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: It opens on two young women with like pop punk
Speaker 2: blaring and one brunette and a blonde and the blonde
Speaker 2: short hair one. She's pissed off. She I miss doing this.
Speaker 2: She like slams closed the flip phone and oh so sad.
Speaker 2: It is so satisfying. And they start talking about like
Speaker 2: like we get that there.
Speaker 3: It's a dorm room.
Speaker 2: They are not really friends, they are put together, and
Speaker 2: it's very Alphaba and Glinda, if you guys are Wicked fans.
Speaker 2: There's a one's a goth, one's a blonde, and they
Speaker 2: are not really getting along. And the goth is always
Speaker 2: online and the blonde needs some action. This is two
Speaker 2: thousand and four and there's only one phone internet line, and.
Speaker 3: So she's like, you're always on it, stop it, blah
Speaker 3: blah blah.
Speaker 2: So they're fighting, and the goth is in a chat
Speaker 2: room called Slasher Fan chat room, and she says this
Speaker 2: is life and death and you're like, shut up, bitch.
Speaker 3: But no.
Speaker 2: So there's a guy in the chat room and he's
Speaker 2: saying that he has a five year old with him
Speaker 2: and he's gonna kill her, and he calls like cops
Speaker 2: pigs and he's gonna slit their throats. There's just like
Speaker 2: a lot of threatening of murdering, and so they get
Speaker 2: scared and call nine one one and.
Speaker 1: On the chat when you see the chat window, like
Speaker 1: the font is in like scary, bloody like font.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is somewhere that your husband would live. I
Speaker 2: would say this was what your husband was doing in
Speaker 2: oh for he was in these slasher movie things, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, four. I think he was moving to Chicago to
Speaker 3: do comedy.
Speaker 1: But yes, this is definitely a place he might hang
Speaker 1: out for sure, just to talk about the slashers, not
Speaker 1: to like talk about killing kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I did not mean to imply, no, that he would
Speaker 2: kill a child. But he does love horror movies. We
Speaker 2: talked yesterday about some so whatever. So this is happening
Speaker 2: in Denver. So we're in So someone at the Denver
Speaker 2: Police starts taking notes. They're taking notes down They for
Speaker 2: some reason think it's happening in Denver and then behind
Speaker 2: the police there's a bunch of random trophies on a
Speaker 2: file cabinet and it's like, were they bowling? I want
Speaker 2: to know what all these cops did to win all
Speaker 2: these little trophies. But he says, hey, this is not
Speaker 2: in our jurisdiction at all. And this young, like uniformed,
Speaker 2: haughty cop is like, wait, where is he? What's going on?
Speaker 2: And the old man says new York City? Where else?
Speaker 2: So classic classic Everyone is so jealous of New York
Speaker 2: they can't get enough of shitting on it. So then
Speaker 2: we cut to New York City. Hello, A swat team
Speaker 2: is spiraling up the stairs of an apartment building. Benson's
Speaker 2: and Stabler are behind them bulletproof vest time. They're entering
Speaker 2: an apartment, you know, but they do remind everyone there
Speaker 2: is a kid in there. There's a kid in there.
Speaker 2: There's a five year old about to get murdered. We
Speaker 2: have to be careful. They enter and they're like, don't move.
Speaker 2: But it's a family chilling. There's a young blonde girl
Speaker 2: mom dad, and the dad has been in another SVU
Speaker 2: episode called Users.
Speaker 3: I think I remember him more from this one.
Speaker 2: He is like a juicier part but you know, an
Speaker 2: sview alum, double alum. And then we get a common
Speaker 2: SVU moment where it's actually a child pretending to be
Speaker 2: someone on the internet and.
Speaker 3: It is not a killer.
Speaker 2: There's not a five year old girl being held hostage
Speaker 2: about to get her slow her throat slit.
Speaker 3: So that is very very good news.
Speaker 2: So Little JJ comes out and he looks like trouble
Speaker 2: and he goes it was just a.
Speaker 3: Joke, and I'm on his side.
Speaker 2: Okay, those goths are dumb, Like, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I do you think he would have called the cops.
Speaker 1: Well, apparently they just kept asking him over and over again,
Speaker 1: are you joking?
Speaker 3: Are you joking? And he would an answer, So I
Speaker 3: guess maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm not on his side.
Speaker 2: Please don't come for me. But I did write I'm
Speaker 2: like I'm with him.
Speaker 1: This kid is so specific to me, like I always
Speaker 1: remember him, his attitude, his little raspy voice, his face
Speaker 1: like he kind of reminds me also of Dicky Stabler
Speaker 1: in later episode.
Speaker 2: In other episodes, yeah, he also reminds me of the
Speaker 2: little boy from the Elizabon, not from the Julie Bowen.
Speaker 3: Darlene from Roseanne episode.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the one who drives the car and that's
Speaker 1: how they at the beginning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's still van and it's just a joke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these kids are just pulling horrific pranks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they all three of them are together.
Speaker 2: We should do a fuck Mary kill, but that would
Speaker 2: be illegal because they're children. Okay, so we're at the credits. Guys,
Speaker 2: we're at the credits. There is you know, we get it.
Speaker 2: The kid is the thing. There's a family that's happening.
Speaker 2: We're back at the station with the dad and son.
Speaker 2: They're at the table with their detectives and the dad
Speaker 2: is like, whatever, he's a kid. It's a prank. Relax.
Speaker 2: Stabler says, you can't just like say you want to
Speaker 2: kill cops and rape women. Like that's not that's not
Speaker 2: going to fly on the internet. Well it does now.
Speaker 2: Standards have changed. Now you can legit just send horrific
Speaker 2: threats to Instagram and they'll be like, actually we're into this.
Speaker 2: Uh we see nothing wrong with this. Stabler says, you
Speaker 2: had hardcore slasher movie fans freaked out, So this isn't
Speaker 2: just a prank. You had like really you know, people
Speaker 2: that love grotesque shit not into it.
Speaker 3: So your kid did something wrong.
Speaker 2: They asked you if you were joking, like Kara said,
Speaker 2: He said no, they believed that you were serious and
Speaker 2: the dad, oh, and so Stabler says, and honestly, reading
Speaker 2: everything that you wrote, I believed you were serious too.
Speaker 2: And the dad says, then you're an idiot. The balls
Speaker 2: on this family, the balls on this family. That's why
Speaker 2: parents are so dangerous to the world. They can't admit
Speaker 2: that their kids have a problem.
Speaker 3: Not me.
Speaker 1: I'll be the first one to turn Rosy in. I've
Speaker 1: said it once and I'll say it again. I know
Speaker 1: I'm always defending Rosie.
Speaker 2: Both of you were addicted to the case Sidia where
Speaker 2: friend's kid had a birthday party and he's like, did
Speaker 2: she have a kid? Kara walked in. The first thing
Speaker 2: she said to me was do Rosie have some of
Speaker 2: the casidia?
Speaker 3: And I was just like no, but she had chips.
Speaker 2: No one cares and they're like uh oh, and Jared
Speaker 2: kept be like, well no, Jared kept being like, don't
Speaker 2: eat the chips. I'm like, chips in a casidia are
Speaker 2: one hundred percent the same thing, but different textures.
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't nutrition wise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny. It was the first thing you
Speaker 1: said when you walked in to the door of the party.
Speaker 1: I said hello, and you were just like, did she
Speaker 1: eat the Casidia?
Speaker 3: And the whole time I was there with.
Speaker 1: Your husband with JAREDY kept being like, eat the case, Sidia,
Speaker 1: just one bite of the case Sidia? Could you have
Speaker 1: the case Cidia? You guys are like, we're always fighting
Speaker 1: with her about eating you know how it is, No,
Speaker 1: she wanted chips.
Speaker 3: I try to give her an orange. She didn't want it.
Speaker 2: Listen, kids are cool, but parents just we'll see it
Speaker 2: throughout this whole episode. I mean, they're gonna be evil,
Speaker 2: you guys. This is such a good episode, but it's
Speaker 2: just this thing of like, why can't you just admit
Speaker 2: that your little child might have gone too far in
Speaker 2: the Internet.
Speaker 3: I would have made this easier too.
Speaker 2: But maybe he's doing the right thing and giving the
Speaker 2: cops no information because you can't trust police.
Speaker 3: I don't really know.
Speaker 2: But it cuts to Benson and she's with the mom
Speaker 2: still at the house as a bunch of people are
Speaker 2: gathering evidence, and then the mom as well, is like
Speaker 2: totally delusional. She says her son is very sensitive. Please
Speaker 2: don't do this to us. Your son is a sick freak.
Speaker 2: And then the mom is also like, what about that
Speaker 2: broken door?
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 2: And Benson says, fill out a form in the NYPD
Speaker 2: while imburse it.
Speaker 5: L O l.
Speaker 3: SV is true a true comedy.
Speaker 2: Benson asks if he's ever heart his sister, and the
Speaker 2: mom says never, while like still clearing the dinner table.
Speaker 2: People are just so committed to finishing errands on this show.
Speaker 2: I will never understand that mentality. Benson also says that
Speaker 2: she needs to talk to the daughter alone, and the
Speaker 2: mom doesn't want it. And I didn't know this before,
Speaker 2: but kid criminals can have an adult with them, but
Speaker 2: kid victims need to be talked to alone, right so,
Speaker 2: And that makes sense because if the parents are involved
Speaker 2: in any way, you don't want to add pressure to
Speaker 2: the child.
Speaker 3: But I didn't remember that until Benson said that.
Speaker 2: The mom doesn't love that, but she says, yeah, fine, whatever,
Speaker 2: and Benson's being very stern. There's no niceness. She's very
Speaker 2: pissed at these parents. Like usually there's some like a
Speaker 2: game of sensitivity, but not this time. She's just like
Speaker 2: pissed at these delusional, absent parents. So it cuts back
Speaker 2: to Stabler with the boys, and he's quoting the things
Speaker 2: the boy wrote about hurting a five year old, and
Speaker 2: he's like, so is this about your sister? What other
Speaker 2: five year olds do you know that pissed you off
Speaker 2: that much? And the kid's facial acting is like really
Speaker 2: really good, and he's stern as hell, and he says
Speaker 2: that his sister cooked his favorite CD in her easy
Speaker 2: bake oven, so maybe both the kids are psychopaths.
Speaker 3: Like where is this? What's happening?
Speaker 2: He then calls Stabler a moron, which I love. I
Speaker 2: want to watch that on repeat over and over, like
Speaker 2: I just I love it so much. Stabler's trying to
Speaker 2: figure out what has made this kid so angry and violent,
Speaker 2: and he says life is very stressful. So then Stabler goes, oh, stress,
Speaker 2: Really you want to know about stress? I'll tell you
Speaker 2: what stress is. And then he's started, which I don't
Speaker 2: I don't think Stabler should. I don't know, but Stabler says,
Speaker 2: did he arrested five men yesterday who gang raped a
Speaker 2: woman and then defecated on her?
Speaker 3: And it's like twenty three seasons of SVU.
Speaker 2: I don't think shit has ever been brought up, and
Speaker 2: I don't understand why I had to be brought up
Speaker 2: with a child, And I'm like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. They've gone everywhere, and I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever seen heard a shit story. There's never
Speaker 1: been a defication ever.
Speaker 2: Amy Smart's character got peed on, which was pretty traumatizing.
Speaker 2: That's one of the like more horrific episodes, and I
Speaker 2: remember crying like that.
Speaker 3: One really always gets me and upsets me.
Speaker 2: But I, yeah, this is the only time someone has
Speaker 2: pooped on someone. But maybe it's because they're talking about
Speaker 2: it and it happens. We don't have that because they can't. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think we could handle someone on the stand
Speaker 2: being like and then they defecated on me.
Speaker 3: I know. Maybe I don't know. Maybe there's the standards
Speaker 3: in practice thing and that goes too far.
Speaker 2: Who knows, Well, this is gonna be gross and maybe
Speaker 2: our listeners will be pissed. But I was listening to
Speaker 2: a podcast with Aiden Starr, who's a porn star Dominate Trix,
Speaker 2: and she was talking about her Dominate Trix stuff and
Speaker 2: some people like, uh, you know, they like to be
Speaker 2: shit on and puked on.
Speaker 3: But she said she.
Speaker 2: Prefers when the people eat it because then the smell
Speaker 2: goes away.
Speaker 3: Oh god, because some of them eat it.
Speaker 2: And you'd think that's worse to watch someone eat shit,
Speaker 2: but she goes, it's actually better for me because then
Speaker 2: the room doesn't smell like they're shit.
Speaker 3: Okay, Finally, his face has never looked so sad. But listen, he's.
Speaker 2: Gonna say defecating and I'm not gonna tell you about this,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was just interesting. You never know what
Speaker 2: different professions really need or want from the world.
Speaker 3: But she's like, please eat your own shit. It'll be
Speaker 3: easier on me.
Speaker 1: So anyways, the dad is like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: to bounce back from that. Okay, So the dad is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2: He's a kid, And Stabler throws the papers of the
Speaker 2: transcripts from the chat at him and goes, your look
Speaker 2: what your son wrote Like he wants to talk like
Speaker 2: a dirt bag.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna treat him like a dirt bag.
Speaker 2: It's an aggressive sea and Stabler is hot, and then
Speaker 2: it cuts to a set Who's the Little Sister And
Speaker 2: you know it's a pink room and it's my bedspread.
Speaker 2: I have this bedspread in Skokie at my parents' house.
Speaker 3: This yeah, it's from I Kia.
Speaker 2: It's like pink and fun shades of pink flowers on
Speaker 2: the outside and then like the other side of it
Speaker 2: is a cool pink and green flannel and I loved
Speaker 2: it and it was like my favorite sheets. So love
Speaker 2: that my sheets were picked by the props department to
Speaker 2: be in.
Speaker 3: This Taste is Taste, you know, Taste is Taste.
Speaker 2: Benson is asking, you know if the brother hurts her,
Speaker 2: and she says that he pulled her hair once and
Speaker 2: she just wants to play. And the girl has lots
Speaker 2: of dolls, like a closet of dolls. I've never seen
Speaker 2: so many toys. I'm like, okay, so it's a full
Speaker 2: family of freaks, Like what is happening in this household?
Speaker 2: Benson asks her to show where he hurt her on
Speaker 2: the dolls, and she pulls the doll's braids but nothing else,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't and she says, he doesn't hurt me
Speaker 2: anywhere else, So she asks who does he hurt and
Speaker 2: then she goes Beverly and Erica he hurt them on
Speaker 2: their crotch region, and so then Lisette starts pointing to
Speaker 2: the dolls crotch and then Benson is like, oh god,
Speaker 2: what this is scary. We have to talk to them.
Speaker 2: Does your mom know where they are? Like what's going on?
Speaker 2: And she goes they're in the hospital. And you're like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is going on? Like where are these girls?
Speaker 2: What hospital? What is being hidden? What's happening in this house?
Speaker 2: Good news everyone, it's a doll hospital. It's a doll hospital.
Speaker 2: Sbu has pulled a giant prank on us. It's a
Speaker 2: giant like lavender trunk from under the bed. I'm sure
Speaker 2: it made Kara think about summer camp, and it's filled
Speaker 2: with dozens and dozens of mangled, fucked up dolls like
Speaker 2: the neighbor boy from Test story Toy Story Boy, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but recently it's like a wicked storyline where that boy
Speaker 2: was just like smart in an inventor and he didn't
Speaker 2: realize the toys were alive, like you know what I.
Speaker 3: Mean, like, how dare you hurt these living things? He
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 1: He was just like trying to be a creative kid,
Speaker 1: and everyone's like, you murdering psycho and yeah, he might.
Speaker 2: Have not been a psychopath. He could just be a
Speaker 2: cool inventor on Shark Tank. Now, but all the dolls
Speaker 2: are mutilated and burned. Wait, have you read the thing
Speaker 2: about toy Story where something happened in the files where
Speaker 2: all of toy Story was deleted from everything, and then
Speaker 2: one woman was on maternity leave and so she had
Speaker 2: the one copy of toy Story.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and that I read about that a long
Speaker 1: time ago. And then it's had like a resurfacing with
Speaker 1: like a meme or something that was about it's I
Speaker 1: think it's like on a lot of mom meme blogs
Speaker 1: and shit, because it's like, yeah, when you're on maternity leave,
Speaker 1: you're awesome and you have files backed up.
Speaker 3: I don't really know what the point.
Speaker 2: Is, like, yes, just like moms saved the day, or
Speaker 2: maybe like a lot more people work home. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: let yes, yes, but I read one this morning that
Speaker 2: was a got like someone fired somebody and then deleted
Speaker 2: like all her email account immediately without realizing that she
Speaker 2: had the whole business's schedule in her account and the
Speaker 2: company lost three years of their schedule.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, But like, why is that system set
Speaker 1: up like that?
Speaker 3: That's that's fucked. Wait. Also, did you.
Speaker 1: See the meme that's been going around where this this
Speaker 1: person goes, I had a coworker who came back from
Speaker 1: eternity leave and I watched them highlight hundreds of emails
Speaker 1: in their inbox and then just delete them. And then
Speaker 1: she goes, if they want to find me, they'll find me.
Speaker 1: And the person goes, I think about that woman all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 3: Love her. Yeah, it's truth.
Speaker 2: Leave us alone, Leave us alone, stop emailing. No you
Speaker 2: email us, email us, email us. But yeah, we will
Speaker 2: read it eventually. Maybe we should. We should do a
Speaker 2: trip and go to a Palm Springs or something and
Speaker 2: rent a house and just answer everything.
Speaker 3: Accounts and excuse to go to Palm Springs. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: basically so listen to this.
Speaker 2: The dolls are mutilated, they're burned as fuck, band aids
Speaker 2: on the crotch.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Craigan now is trying to reason with the father, like
Speaker 2: your needs help and it's not normal. Your son is
Speaker 2: not normal and he needs help and the dad does not,
Speaker 2: and he's just like all boys fuck up their sister's
Speaker 2: doll and it's like wake up. Craigan's like, no, there's
Speaker 2: twenty three dolls. They're all mutilated in the crotch region.
Speaker 2: He is an emotionally disturbed boy. And the dad goes, oh,
Speaker 2: so you're a doctor now, I just I hate this
Speaker 2: fucking dad so much. Craigan says no, but I don't like,
Speaker 2: why don't we get him a psych evaluation, So like,
Speaker 2: sign this form and the dad says no, and Craigan's like,
Speaker 2: so would you rather have him have a criminal record?
Speaker 3: And the dad goes for what?
Speaker 2: And I don't know if he's playing dumb or if
Speaker 2: he is dumb, and I don't understand why he sees
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with what is happening in the world. But
Speaker 2: Craigan says, we're gonna get him for terroristic threat messages,
Speaker 2: and the dad goes on an impassion speech which I
Speaker 2: don't fully disagree with, but he is pissed off that
Speaker 2: will co op nine to eleven for their own agenda.
Speaker 2: What do you Where are you gonna send him Guantanamo Bay?
Speaker 2: So again we're like so in two thousand and four,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, no, I prefer Bellevue. We can send
Speaker 2: him to the kid Ward and get him a psychical
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna send him to jail.
Speaker 3: It's your fucking show.
Speaker 2: And the dad goes, no, I don't want him branded crazy,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, too bad, your kid's crazy. Craigan says, fine,
Speaker 2: but we're not letting him go home to his sister.
Speaker 2: So it's you. It's like, we're not letting him go
Speaker 2: home to the sister. It is a threat. And if
Speaker 2: you're a threat to others or to yourself, you're not
Speaker 2: leaving this fucking station. Whether you're a child or not.
Speaker 2: Bellevue or Juvie your call, Sir, Craigan is not fucking around.
Speaker 2: So after a tense moment, they cut to the bustling
Speaker 2: in the precinct and you know, walking by, everyone's talking
Speaker 2: and they I did not say this, but Munch walks
Speaker 2: by and says I heard they ship JJ off to
Speaker 2: the looney bin, and I like that.
Speaker 3: I love the word.
Speaker 2: Looney and it's a it's a thing of money in Canada,
Speaker 2: mm hmmm, which I yeah, yeah, Looni's in Tunies cute.
Speaker 2: So he's there now for a seventy two hour hold.
Speaker 2: Finn walks in after talking to all the neighbors and
Speaker 2: they hate this kid. He terrorizes all the children in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood. He screams till he's red in the face.
Speaker 2: He's locked kids in utility closets before, and then they
Speaker 2: were crying in there for an hour before he let
Speaker 2: them out. And then the dad sends everyone expensive gifts
Speaker 2: to shut them up, and they're all like, fuck, we
Speaker 2: got to get a handle on him. He's a ticking
Speaker 2: time bomb. Finn says, well, let's call the school and
Speaker 2: see what's up there. He reaches for the phone and
Speaker 2: I noticed there was a magic eight ball on his desk.
Speaker 2: And I love that Finn has a magic eight ball.
Speaker 2: I wonder what he asks, Like it's decidedly so. Like,
Speaker 2: so they head over to Faulkner Preparatory School on Madison Avenue.
Speaker 2: And do you think it's named after William Faulkner, because
Speaker 2: like that's a little adult probably.
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like a lot of these prep
Speaker 1: schools that are on Madison Avenue.
Speaker 3: I used to babysit for a kid that went to like.
Speaker 1: Fieldston, you know, like they all have these like just
Speaker 1: sort of generic y kind of names of I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, but I bet it's after Faulkner.
Speaker 2: I just wanted our listeners to know I know who
Speaker 2: he is, to be honest, I just wanted everyone to know.
Speaker 2: I haven't read in a decade, but I do know
Speaker 2: William Faulkner.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So, and then we hear all of the signs and
Speaker 2: it's like he has trouble paying attention in class, he
Speaker 2: has poor grades, inappropriate behavior, he's drawing pornographic images in
Speaker 2: someone's desk and passing around disturbing stories that he's writing, like,
Speaker 2: these are all signs.
Speaker 3: We know the signs.
Speaker 2: And so the administrator has the story, hands it over
Speaker 2: and says, I warned the parents that he needed help
Speaker 2: and they disagreed. So these parents are on one they
Speaker 2: might be scientologists, like why are they so against getting
Speaker 2: this kid any sort of psychological help and preventing crimes
Speaker 2: in the future. So the school is not allowing him
Speaker 2: back next year, and they want to kick him out,
Speaker 2: but it's so close to the end of the term,
Speaker 2: so they're letting it slide. Munch asks if he's ever
Speaker 2: heard a student, and the lady responds, we thought he did,
Speaker 2: but the student denies it. He pushes to know more,
Speaker 2: and she explains that there was a locker room fight
Speaker 2: and the other boy Mitchell was fully bloody, but JJ
Speaker 2: had nothing on him, which was really strange to her
Speaker 2: because the school bully is Mitchell cut to pe class dodgeball.
Speaker 2: They're in dodgeball. Munch, of course hated dodgeball. Finn loved it. Perfect,
Speaker 2: perfect characterization. I would say, and I miss dodgeball. Should
Speaker 2: we like do a dodgeball party?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: You miss it?
Speaker 1: Having like a ball smacked at your body. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: really good at catching ball. Yeah, so I would catch him.
Speaker 1: I was someone that was like sliding and catching. I
Speaker 1: was good at it. I was like the kid at
Speaker 1: the end. I was the last man standing more than
Speaker 1: one time in my life.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think I have good eyehand coordination, like I can
Speaker 1: catch balls, but I think like the way that guys
Speaker 1: would just like whipping at you so fast. I was
Speaker 1: like scale, like I would just be like, just hit me,
Speaker 1: and I want to get out, Like I would let
Speaker 1: myself get out so you can go to the side.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, do you know I know exactly
Speaker 1: why you wanted to sit on the sideline.
Speaker 2: To fucking talk to people. Yeah, you sat on the
Speaker 2: sideline gossiping.
Speaker 3: You know it, bitch?
Speaker 1: I love now I'm just picturing you in all the
Speaker 1: pictures i've seen you tiny, like sliding on the floor
Speaker 1: to get a toshball, and it's really making me giggle. No,
Speaker 1: I tried hard and be I remember like I would
Speaker 1: because I was never good that good at stuff, but
Speaker 1: I still tried, and I really wanted to get under
Speaker 1: eight minutes or at eight minutes for the mile. And
Speaker 1: I do remember getting made fun of by the cool
Speaker 1: kids that walked it and didn't give a shit because
Speaker 1: I wasn't good at It's not like I was running
Speaker 1: and people are like, look at her. Go.
Speaker 2: I was struggling, red in the face, but trying so hard,
Speaker 2: and for what to say.
Speaker 1: I think my fastest smile ever was eight thirty. I
Speaker 1: think that was that's good ever. And I was like
Speaker 1: so proud of myself because I used to get like ten.
Speaker 3: Yeah I was ten.
Speaker 2: My goal was always to get like around eight minutes,
Speaker 2: like I just wanted to have an eight minute mind.
Speaker 2: And now you know, nothing matters and we might die
Speaker 2: in a new war, but little Liza wanted to run
Speaker 2: the fucking mile. Maybe it's my dad was an athlete.
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever, So Munch says, he was very skinny,
Speaker 2: and people would he he'll break the pencil and he
Speaker 2: was a walking bruise.
Speaker 3: Baby munch, baby munch.
Speaker 2: So they pinpoint Mitchell and he's large and in charge,
Speaker 2: so we know it's him. He's he's gonna be beaten
Speaker 2: down some kids. So Finn bounced it. This is like
Speaker 2: wild to me. But Finn bounces the red ball on
Speaker 2: this kid's head and grabs him by the back of
Speaker 2: the neck to lead him away.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I get that he was a bully, but
Speaker 1: he was the victim. He got beat up, he was bloody.
Speaker 1: He's just paying attention in gym class, like.
Speaker 3: What he also, what is he saying? Goes boom, you're
Speaker 3: out or something like that.
Speaker 1: He says he's like sassy and like like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that.
Speaker 2: You know, a rab by the back of the neck.
Speaker 2: But that's what happens when kids look older, I guess.
Speaker 2: But he hasn't done anything wrong yet. But also, wouldn't
Speaker 2: you want to see to bounce a red ball on
Speaker 2: your head?
Speaker 3: I know I would.
Speaker 2: So they're having a quiet interrogation moment on the stairs
Speaker 2: and Mitchell's explaining what happened. So JJ's someone took JJ's
Speaker 2: towel off in the showers just for something to do,
Speaker 2: and in quote someone, I'm sure it was him and
Speaker 2: he might have gotten snapped by some wet towels or two.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, just good fun, the bully says, and
Speaker 2: Munch goes, ah, Yes, getting pelted by Neanderthals in the
Speaker 2: private sounds like a blast. I'm telling you, this episode
Speaker 2: has so many little gems. JJ went postal, he says,
Speaker 2: wailing on Mitchell. He had bruises, a bloody nose, busted lip,
Speaker 2: and Fin's like, okay, but why didn't you fight back?
Speaker 2: And he says I was freaked out. Munch asks why,
Speaker 2: and this is what happened. The whole time that he
Speaker 2: was beating the shit out of Mitchell, JJ was screaming rape.
Speaker 2: So now you know, the men look at each other
Speaker 2: like a cartoon like. So, now Benson's standing and lecturing
Speaker 2: the rest of the squad like duh, how did we
Speaker 2: miss this? Explosive rage, sexual acting, out sliding grades, behavior
Speaker 2: and personality issues classic signs of being molested. And I
Speaker 2: am disappointed in the squad that they didn't put it
Speaker 2: together earlier.
Speaker 3: And now it's like, well, who fucking molested him.
Speaker 2: Maybe the family since they refused to get him any
Speaker 2: help or or honest about anything. We find out he
Speaker 2: has absolutely no friends, and the dad's running interference the
Speaker 2: whole fucking interview, so obviously you know he's up to
Speaker 2: no good. So they're gonna accuse the dad of molesting
Speaker 2: this kid, and I don't think he's gonna take it well.
Speaker 2: Benson says, I have a feeling the mother knows about it.
Speaker 2: She has major guilt issues, Like we have to get
Speaker 2: to the bottom of this. Stabler kind of admits fault
Speaker 2: for once in his life and says, maybe he was
Speaker 2: too hard on the kid, and yes, you are wrong.
Speaker 2: So now we send in B. D. Wong George Kwang,
Speaker 2: Hello baby. He enters the chat. He's at Bellevue and
Speaker 2: he asks, JJ, how do you feel? And he has
Speaker 2: a great answer, I'm in an insane asylum. How do
Speaker 2: you think I feel? This kid's a genius. Ah, he's
Speaker 2: so funny. He asks if he's angry at someone, and
Speaker 2: he says his parents because they let him end up
Speaker 2: there and they are lame and they don't care about him,
Speaker 2: and bad Wong goes, well, have they let you down? Before,
Speaker 2: and JJ says he can't say. He then gets up
Speaker 2: and slides all the shit off the table, all the toys.
Speaker 2: They're like a kid interrogation and he's like, I'm not
Speaker 2: allowed to talk about it, and Huang goes, well why not?
Speaker 2: And he says he can't talk about anything because there's
Speaker 2: a deal and a contract in place and he can't
Speaker 2: talk about it and the parents signed the contract, and
Speaker 2: but Huang says, legally, there's not a contract that can
Speaker 2: cover up a crime.
Speaker 3: Is that true? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like is that like if there's there's I feel like
Speaker 1: NDAs cover up crimes all the fucking time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm like early because Huang does, like Bedi
Speaker 2: Wong said that most of the stuff is I mean,
Speaker 2: it's real research. This is the Neil barriers. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: but it's possible.
Speaker 1: But I think, well, also, what he's probably trying to
Speaker 1: say is like, you can't sign an NDA, so you
Speaker 1: can tell me anything you want. Like, nothing you tell
Speaker 1: me is like going against an NDA because you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're not old enough to sign these things.
Speaker 2: But if you're an adult and you set a lot
Speaker 2: of core and sign something and then talk about it,
Speaker 2: and a crime was like I want. I'm like very curious,
Speaker 2: So any lawyers, anyone that's in this realm, please hit
Speaker 2: us up. Let us know what you know about NDAs
Speaker 2: and children and contracts not being able to cover up
Speaker 2: a crime. So then Huang is so good. He goes,
Speaker 2: they are not protecting you, Why are you protecting them?
Speaker 2: Tell us JJ, tell us what happens, and JJ says
Speaker 2: he was at a sleepover with a bunch of kids.
Speaker 2: A lot of kids were there, but he was the
Speaker 2: only kid who got to sleep in the treasure room,
Speaker 2: which is whose bedroom? Whose is it? Who's who's Who's
Speaker 2: it's Billy? And Huang asks what did Billy do? And
Speaker 2: he says, well, they were like pajamas laid out for JJ,
Speaker 2: and Billy helped him undress. And then I'm like so sad,
Speaker 2: and then Jaj starts crying, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you just feel so sad for this kid you thought
Speaker 2: was just like a violent asshole. I mean I knew that,
Speaker 2: I knew it the whole time I've seen this, but yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1: Trying to put it does pull out your little heart strings.
Speaker 1: It does because you're like what you are kind of
Speaker 1: like what a little shit, even though he's funny, and
Speaker 1: then this is like sad to see him kind of
Speaker 1: break and.
Speaker 3: It's usually life.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are people that are just assholes, but
Speaker 2: it's like most assholes are sad.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't I cut that, Okay, No, I think
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 3: Most assholes have something going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to just be pure asshole with like, but you've
Speaker 1: had a perfect life.
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's kind of hard to find. Today.
Speaker 2: I went to a block to get some cold brew,
Speaker 2: and I think they could tell I was having a
Speaker 2: rough day and she gave me a free cookie and
Speaker 2: I was like, that's not a good sign. Like I
Speaker 2: gotta put on a braw and brush my hair because
Speaker 2: these people are giving.
Speaker 3: Me I'm getting free shit. Yeah, album, Yeah, there's a problem.
Speaker 2: She's like, I think you need this, and I go, Okay,
Speaker 2: they're not wrong.
Speaker 3: You're not wrong. You're not wrong, honey.
Speaker 2: Huang says, I'm so sorry your parents made you keep
Speaker 2: this secret for so long.
Speaker 3: How is he?
Speaker 2: I love Huang? I mean, what an angel on this planet?
Speaker 2: But you know it's so good that you get it
Speaker 2: out now. And he's crying and he says he touched me,
Speaker 2: he made me touch him, and then he told his parents,
Speaker 2: and then his parents got rich, So what is that?
Speaker 3: So what happened?
Speaker 2: So what we find out is Billy owns a company
Speaker 2: that his dad used to work for, and he paid
Speaker 2: them so much they never have to work again. And
Speaker 2: then there was like a super super long break in
Speaker 2: the Hulu. So I'm assuming this is like where a
Speaker 2: commercial is. And I have to tell you, I was
Speaker 2: watching this and writing in a cafe in DC and
Speaker 2: this woman who was clearly mentally not one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: but the restaurant knew her, everyone knew her, but she
Speaker 2: was past. She brought in little chocolate carrot umbrellas and
Speaker 2: was handing them out to people. And I was sitting
Speaker 2: there being like, if this bitch does not give me
Speaker 2: a little carrot umbrella, I will die.
Speaker 3: And she did. She had. She came up. She goes,
Speaker 3: I see that you're working really hard.
Speaker 2: I have a present for you. And she gave me
Speaker 2: a little carrot umbrella. So just no, while I'm watching this,
Speaker 2: I'm watching this woman and she like out of her purse,
Speaker 2: she brought a stuffed panda and put it on the
Speaker 2: desk and was talking to the panda, and everyone kind
Speaker 2: of knew her at the cafe, and so like I
Speaker 2: was watching her with Yeah, so she was gifting everyone
Speaker 2: little carrot umbrellas, talking to the stuffed animals, ordering a salad,
Speaker 2: and you know, so that's what was happening as I'm
Speaker 2: I was watching this little boy love.
Speaker 3: This sounds like the beginning of an SVU too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she gives a carrot to like a kid
Speaker 1: who's like traumatized and they collapse, you know, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or she's the only witness, but she's not a
Speaker 2: credible enough witness because she talks to a panda.
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're like, did anybody else see the crime?
Speaker 3: She's like, only my little panda. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the other there was like a lot of
Speaker 2: older women sitting alone at this cafe, and then like
Speaker 2: they all had a competition with her. Like it was
Speaker 2: just a really fun dynamic and I was lucky to
Speaker 2: be there. So we're back from the commercial break and
Speaker 2: my break of talking about carrots, and so the commercial
Speaker 2: break comes back to a photo of the dad taped
Speaker 2: onto the workboard at the precinct and Stabler is chatting.
Speaker 2: We find out Billy's last name is Tripley and his
Speaker 2: toy company, Tripley Toys, did one point seven billion dollars
Speaker 2: in sales last year, so this is like obviously a
Speaker 2: very successful company. Billy's full name is William Tripley. He's
Speaker 2: thirty five, never married, clean slate. He's inherited the company
Speaker 2: from Daddy, and he doesn't do any of the work,
Speaker 2: but he takes in most of the profits. And Jeremy
Speaker 2: the dad, got two million dollars when he left, but
Speaker 2: he was only middle management, so it's not like he
Speaker 2: was a CEO and got a severance or a big
Speaker 2: like peace out package.
Speaker 3: He was middle management.
Speaker 2: Then he got another million dollars the next year and
Speaker 2: another million this year, so he's getting lots of millions.
Speaker 2: And this Billy guy gives tens of millions of dollars
Speaker 2: to mostly children's charities, so he has deep, deep pockets
Speaker 2: for kids. So there's just in my notes, it's literally
Speaker 2: like in Lisa's notes, there's just a timeline of what's
Speaker 2: going on with the carrot Panda lady.
Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, I got a carrot.
Speaker 1: Oh, but the lady was like, I love your hair
Speaker 1: and outfit, but I was going to the airport, So
Speaker 1: there's no way. I was wearing my ice I was
Speaker 1: wearing my iced tea sweatshirt in a high bun.
Speaker 2: Like, there's no way. She was like, Wow, you dress amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm like this iced tea sweatshirt and sweatpants.
Speaker 3: Cool. Wait, I'm sorry. I know we have a lot
Speaker 3: more to get going, but I have questions.
Speaker 1: Where does the chocolate factor into the carrot umbrella?
Speaker 3: Theroud? So I think it's an Easter candy.
Speaker 2: So it's like, there's chocolate, and then it's like the
Speaker 2: wrapping is an orange carrot, and then the top is
Speaker 2: a green little hook, so it looks like a carrot umbrella.
Speaker 2: But okay, hazel not chocolate, Okay, okay. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's chocolate. Carrot is dipped in chocolate. I was kidding,
Speaker 2: well because the first time I saw it and heard it,
Speaker 2: because I knew I wanted to pay attention. She went
Speaker 2: up to a woman next to me and goes, guess what,
Speaker 2: I have an umbrella for you, and the.
Speaker 3: Woman looked confused.
Speaker 2: I looked confused because you know, umbrellas are bigger. And
Speaker 2: then she took out the little carrot umbrella and I
Speaker 2: was like, I see what you're doing here?
Speaker 3: I cannot. I know, I have to work out in
Speaker 3: the world more often. It was like you see funny people.
Speaker 3: It's like New York.
Speaker 1: We don't see as much crazy in LA because we're
Speaker 1: not out in the world as much.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Also, this neighborhood is so insular that like if we
Speaker 2: just see the same at eight like a thousand people
Speaker 2: over and over again, like there's just we're always at
Speaker 2: the same place as in this neighborhood. So Benson says,
Speaker 2: there's got to be more victims out there. I mean,
Speaker 2: this rich motherfucker like, there's more out there. So how
Speaker 2: do we weed them out? How wou do we find people?
Speaker 2: And Stabler goes, no, let's pick them up right fucking now,
Speaker 2: and Craigan says, in a twist of events, Craigan goes,
Speaker 2: good idea, I'll get novakker warrant right away.
Speaker 3: Let's let's fucking go.
Speaker 2: So he doesn't have any time to hide anything, and
Speaker 2: they go to visit him at his home at for
Speaker 2: Sutton Place, Stabler is standing next to a little boy
Speaker 2: mannequin wearing a German yodl outfit, and Stabler says, leader
Speaker 2: Hosen guilty, who wrote, that's the funniest line in the
Speaker 2: show history. I like, cannot I want to get that
Speaker 2: might be my tattoo because I really want to get eventually,
Speaker 2: like a heart tattoo traditional with something has to be
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 3: And I was gonna do done, done, but I might
Speaker 3: get Leader Hosen.
Speaker 1: Guilty and have to explain this full episode to everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also feel like Leader Hosen has way too many
Speaker 2: spelling errors hidden in there, like you can't trust someone
Speaker 2: to spell leader Hosen forever. And this house is soda fountains, arcade, games, toys,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't have kid, so and then Finn brings
Speaker 2: up a good point. He goes, well, he does make
Speaker 2: toys at his job, like he could just be working,
Speaker 2: like these could be toys and testing toys. He owns
Speaker 2: a toy company. So then Finn goes animal alert and
Speaker 2: I started laughing so loudly, and a Lemur arrives, like,
Speaker 2: because we're we it's always about Kimba, Kimba and the
Speaker 2: dog and this I mean the dog, it's a gibbon,
Speaker 2: but to see a lemur, and so the lemur starts
Speaker 2: running around and scaring Munch and it's like and then
Speaker 2: a lady in a classic made outfit is running up
Speaker 2: and goes, oh, that's the lemur. Don't scare it. I
Speaker 2: just love animal. I just so fun. And they're like geeesh,
Speaker 2: I wonder what he's doing with this endangered animal. And
Speaker 2: the maid goes, how dare you don't talk shit about
Speaker 2: mister Ripley.
Speaker 3: He is a saint and Stabler.
Speaker 2: Is like, well, has there any ever been anything kind
Speaker 2: of questionable? And she says no, and there are ten
Speaker 2: servants on staff and you can ask them and then servants. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's my next note. She called herself a servant, which
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. It's very Ramona Real Housewives of New York like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's housekeeper lady. Like, I've never heard someone call themselves a.
Speaker 1: Servant, right, so ya like something yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: She said all these servants so Staybler says, well, we've
Speaker 2: heard about a secret treasure room and she says that's
Speaker 2: no secret. That's every child's favorite place. And they enter
Speaker 2: straight up a pirate fantasy and Munch says, pervert ahoy,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: It is really like, do we know who wrote it?
Speaker 1: This episode's too good, the writing.
Speaker 3: It's so funny.
Speaker 2: And so it's a pedophilic pirate motif. Then Finn says,
Speaker 2: what do you gotta do to get booty from his
Speaker 2: treasure chest? And it's just like JJ described where he
Speaker 2: was molested three years ago, and there's a like a
Speaker 2: whole closet folled with themed pajamas and Finn says, back
Speaker 2: them up and hopefully there's some dirty laundry in the
Speaker 2: dirty laundry. I like sayings after sayings after sayings, but
Speaker 2: this one's more sad. It means, you know, seemen on
Speaker 2: children's pajamas. We don't love that. So tons of press
Speaker 2: is going wild. As Stabler's walking and arrested Billy out
Speaker 2: of the Triple E toy business. We hear a lawyer say,
Speaker 2: don't worry, Billy, we'll get you out in a few hours.
Speaker 2: It's Chauncey zir Go, Hello, bro, and he's just talking
Speaker 2: about how people are trying to cash out, and then
Speaker 2: he helps kids and this is outrageous allegations and lines
Speaker 2: and he's gonna sue people for slander. And Stabler says,
Speaker 2: you're not threatening witnesses live on camera, are you? And
Speaker 2: he's like, you're not trying to trample my First Amendment rights?
Speaker 2: Are you We're an interrogation. Billy tells Chauncey tell them
Speaker 2: I would never hurt a child, and Saylor's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could hear you. I'm right here. I did spill
Speaker 2: hear wrong, Kara, I see it, and I'm sorry. They
Speaker 2: do a backup. Well, I'm humiliated. I don't want you
Speaker 2: to think I'm like ignorant. They do a back and
Speaker 2: forth and he goes, I didn't do anything wrong, and
Speaker 2: then it's like, yes you did, No I did, and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. It's an interrogation. We know how it goes.
Speaker 2: And they're like, you've spent like four million dollars giving
Speaker 2: this guy money, Like what are you even doing? He
Speaker 2: says that money wasn't about molestation, it's about business. So
Speaker 2: the detectives asked to see the paperwork and Shauncey says
Speaker 2: they can't show them, but it was a toy patent
Speaker 2: situation and that they bought a toy patent.
Speaker 3: From the father.
Speaker 2: Stabler says, it's a bunch of crap, but it is
Speaker 2: a pretty good lie, and it's like that you know
Speaker 2: it checks out in theory, Yeah, like why you would
Speaker 2: get a lump some yeah. Yeah, like everything that's the thing,
Speaker 2: Like everything kind of makes sense, like, yeah, that's why
Speaker 2: you have toys in the house. You're a toy factory guy.
Speaker 2: Oh you could have paid him for a patent. That
Speaker 2: makes sense, Like you know, this guy does have a
Speaker 2: defense building that is not super out of like the
Speaker 2: realm of possibility. Benson says, you're telling me a nine
Speaker 2: year old boy didn't sleep over at your place, and
Speaker 2: he goes, kids sleep over at my house all the time.
Speaker 2: And then Stabler goes, okay, and how often do you
Speaker 2: sleep in the same bed?
Speaker 3: And he admits it. He's like says the quiet part loud.
Speaker 2: He goes all the time and smiles, and his lips
Speaker 2: have a shet on them that make me really uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: It's like a really shiny lip.
Speaker 2: And he has spiky, weird hair, very thick eyebrows, and
Speaker 2: it seems like they put powder on his face to
Speaker 2: make a Michael Jackson vibe.
Speaker 3: I feel, yes, sure, yeah right, his skin is white,
Speaker 3: it's undeniable. Yeah, And he goes, yeah, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2: And Benson's sternly must remind him like you're a thirty
Speaker 2: five year old man, and he says, I would kill
Speaker 2: myself before I would do anything to hurt a child,
Speaker 2: and Sailor is a very correct rebuttle, and he says,
Speaker 2: pedophiles never think they're hurting children. You're just loving them, right,
Speaker 2: And he goes, yes, but not in the sick way
Speaker 2: you're saying. And he says, there's nothing more natural or
Speaker 2: beautiful than loving a child, and Chauncey goes, okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: I think we're doing here. I think we're not. We're
Speaker 2: done talking, and they say, not so fast. We're booking Billy,
Speaker 2: and we're going to trial, and Sailor says, and if
Speaker 2: you really actually care about kids, you'll settle out of
Speaker 2: court so they don't have to like testify, and done done.
Speaker 3: We're at the judge's office.
Speaker 2: And the judge is played by Philip Bosco. This is
Speaker 2: Judge Joseph Peter Hun. He died in twenty eighteen at
Speaker 2: eighty eight years old. A nice, luscious life and he's
Speaker 2: been in six episodes of SVU. Novak and Chauncey are
Speaker 2: chasing the judge around the office and you know it's
Speaker 2: basically they're like arguing about the case they're doing their job.
Speaker 3: We have enough evidence. No, you don't.
Speaker 2: JJ's crazy. He's crazy because he got molested. What's happening,
Speaker 2: is there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: And then the judge says, we are going to trial.
Speaker 2: There will be a jury, and that is what's happening.
Speaker 2: But then Chauncey, you know, isn't done and he thinks
Speaker 2: that Huang did the interview. Is it's wrong because he
Speaker 2: didn't say he was in the FBI, but he was
Speaker 2: just asked acting as a doctor. You don't have to
Speaker 2: say he's FBI. And the judge goes, I'll look into
Speaker 2: this and I'll get back to you. And Novak also
Speaker 2: has something, and she goes, I can write up a
Speaker 2: motion too, and she says that the defendant made bail
Speaker 2: and is still entertaining children at his home and that's
Speaker 2: fucked up. And the judge does look horrified and is
Speaker 2: like like, stop, get the kids.
Speaker 3: Out of the predator's house. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The defense attorney chance, I love, saying Chauncey. So then
Speaker 2: Chauncey says, well, these were pre organized and planned charity
Speaker 2: events and I don't think that sick kids should have
Speaker 2: to suffer for bad behavior of one. And the judge
Speaker 2: is like, okay, but that's it and let's side on
Speaker 2: the air of caution and no more entertaining children.
Speaker 3: He is being charged for molesting children, like.
Speaker 2: Seems fair, seems fair and you know, supervised only please.
Speaker 2: So we are now at a giant, giant kids party.
Speaker 2: There's another animal. There's a baby lamb. I know it's reductive.
Speaker 2: A lamb is a baby sheep, but it's a baby
Speaker 2: lamb redundant? What did I say reductive? So there's lots
Speaker 2: of presents and balloons and Stabler events and crash the
Speaker 2: pedophile gathering. Billy is wearing a like why did they
Speaker 2: make this episode so funny?
Speaker 1: I don't think that has happened has made Billy rethink
Speaker 1: anything about his life. She is doubling down. He is
Speaker 1: in a pirate hat and he is like, our ladies
Speaker 1: get into the treasure room.
Speaker 2: So basically, some neighbors called in because they were disturbed,
Speaker 2: as they should be with the child molester having a
Speaker 2: child's party there, and Stabler says, what are we celebrating
Speaker 2: they lower the age of consent? I mean, that's so funny,
Speaker 2: and he turns it on them and goes, that's not funny.
Speaker 2: And the detectives turn around to leave and there's not
Speaker 2: really much of a fight and there's nothing anybody can do,
Speaker 2: so they went down just to burn him a little.
Speaker 2: So they just came to asault him and leave, maybe
Speaker 2: grab some candy on the way out. But on the
Speaker 2: way out, an older woman stops them and she says,
Speaker 2: you have to be wrong about him, you're wrong about him,
Speaker 2: And Stabler says, what, he donated a ton of money
Speaker 2: to you, and she says, no, I just met him.
Speaker 2: I wrote him a letter thanking him, and he invited
Speaker 2: us here with my granddaughter, April.
Speaker 3: And we meet April.
Speaker 2: She's a really sick kid, dark circles under the eyes,
Speaker 2: a big bandan on her head.
Speaker 3: You know, it sucks. Her life is sad.
Speaker 2: She is sick and it's the best day of her
Speaker 2: whole life being at this like amazing party. So munches
Speaker 2: back at the squadroom, like what kind of parents would
Speaker 2: let their kids around such a sick freak, And Finn
Speaker 2: goes it seems like they don't give a shit if
Speaker 2: they're getting a handout, or maybe some are naive and
Speaker 2: they are blinded, But what's going on? And no Vak
Speaker 2: runs in with a VHS in her hands, so you
Speaker 2: know something's good. And it's baby JJ and he's in
Speaker 2: front of a bunch of lost style books and there's
Speaker 2: an adult hand in the frame but we don't know
Speaker 2: who it is. And JJ is recanting the whole story.
Speaker 2: He says it was a lie, he was never touched,
Speaker 2: he was kind, and he's so sorry about all the lies.
Speaker 2: And then suddenly there's like a bang bang bang bang,
Speaker 2: and Stabler and Benson are trying to get into JJ's
Speaker 2: family's house and they're like, where is he? What the fuck?
Speaker 2: Like we got to get him. And the mom opens
Speaker 2: the door, like what do you want now? And Benson goes,
Speaker 2: what did they do? Did they threaten you for breaking
Speaker 2: the non disclosure? You have to pay back the money,
Speaker 2: Like what are you doing? And the mom goes, lower
Speaker 2: your voice, people might hear you.
Speaker 1: And that's the mom's vibe the first time too. That's
Speaker 1: why she wants the door fixed so quickly. Is she's like,
Speaker 1: this has to be done by tonight. The neighbors will see.
Speaker 1: Like she's very concerned about appearances.
Speaker 3: This mom.
Speaker 1: They're definitely trying to set that up. I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: waspy wasp vibes. I didn't connect that with the door.
Speaker 1: That's really good because.
Speaker 3: She just keeps saying people are gonna hear you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The dad comes to the door angry as Hall and goes,
Speaker 2: he's not here, He's at a place you will never
Speaker 2: find him and slams the door in their faces. Then
Speaker 2: there's a classic walk and talk with my favorite characters, Benson,
Speaker 2: Stable or Novak. They're talking business. There's no clues, like
Speaker 2: what are we gonna do at trial? Like what happens now?
Speaker 2: Like dismiss the case? And this pedophile runs free, like
Speaker 2: they really need a new plan. Well, basically they tell Novac,
Speaker 2: you better find a way to do this without JJ,
Speaker 2: or we got to get JJ. But Novak gives a
Speaker 2: determined face and they really want to like put this
Speaker 2: guy away. We open on Novak in a fancy restaurant
Speaker 2: with Marlow Thomas aka Judge Mary Clark. Marlow says, without
Speaker 2: a complaining witness, you can't quote a core and Novak
Speaker 2: does know that, but there's witness tamper ring, but you
Speaker 2: can't prove.
Speaker 3: It yet, Like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: And you have to prove that he recanted under duress
Speaker 2: can you do that? And then Novak drops a bomb
Speaker 2: and it's like, why didn't you mention this sooner? But
Speaker 2: Huang said that JJ can identify a birthmark on Billy's penis,
Speaker 2: but she says it way too loud, and then everyone
Speaker 2: around at the restaurant stares at them, and then Marlow
Speaker 2: Thomas has to go, oh, she doesn't get out much,
Speaker 2: which is true.
Speaker 3: We've seen them out of paperwork. She gets more corky,
Speaker 3: more comedy. She doesn't get out much.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I've done this because we forget especially
Speaker 2: as coll like this has happened to me where people
Speaker 2: are like, please stop screaming, cunt out.
Speaker 3: At this restaurant.
Speaker 2: I just looked at my phone and it's eleven eleven.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, everyone make a wish our intuitions on fire?
Speaker 3: Okay, so did I not tell you up top?
Speaker 2: How funny this episode is even though it's about child molestation,
Speaker 2: Like they just cram the comedy. But yeah, Novak's got
Speaker 2: a lot of paperwork in softball.
Speaker 3: She doesn't have time to party.
Speaker 2: Novak is so passionate and pissed though, and is like,
Speaker 2: if any jury heard the boys statement, Billy would be guilty.
Speaker 2: But it's not the case, Casey. Stop, you're wasting all
Speaker 2: of our time, like we need more. Marlowe brings up
Speaker 2: the eighth Amendment, like, you know you have to confront
Speaker 2: you get you have a right to confront your accuser,
Speaker 2: which I don't really love that. It's just like it
Speaker 2: was probably written by criminals, aka the people that started
Speaker 2: our country, because like to force a victim to have
Speaker 2: to confront the person that like did terrible things to them,
Speaker 2: that's only for the criminal. Why aren't we protecting the
Speaker 2: victims as much? Yeah, all the amendments are to protect
Speaker 2: bad people. Pleading the fifth it's like or the ones
Speaker 2: where if you're married you don't have to tell on
Speaker 2: your spouse. Like everything is protecting bad people. It's strange.
Speaker 2: I never kind of put that together. Casey is like, well,
Speaker 2: we can't just let rich people get out of justice
Speaker 2: with fancy da agreements and Marlgo's bingo. Actually, baby girl,
Speaker 2: that's the key in the NDA, Like the parents did
Speaker 2: they use his name? If the boy's name is in it,
Speaker 2: that can give you a clue to get this guy. Legally,
Speaker 2: a minor cannot be in a binding contract. But also
Speaker 2: the guardians have to be acting in his best interests
Speaker 2: and if they weren't, then you know, that's not good.
Speaker 2: And this is a very legally blonde moment. I think like, well,
Speaker 2: why this sperm, why this you know, it's a lot
Speaker 2: of cool stuff. So then mar Lo goes, we need
Speaker 2: to get JJ his own lawyer that's not also working
Speaker 2: with the parents, and she goes, I know just the person.
Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, who's it gonna be.
Speaker 2: And so then we're at corps and Peter herman Ak
Speaker 2: Trevor langham aka mister Hargatea, he is representing the father
Speaker 2: and JJ or whatever, and Novaka is fighting it, going
Speaker 2: we need to get another person, and the judge actually agrees,
Speaker 2: and the judge goes, okay, well, who who's going to
Speaker 2: represent JJ? And Marlo Thomas is in the courtroom and
Speaker 2: gets up and goes, I'll do it, and so she
Speaker 2: volunteers for the job. And she bounces up and she
Speaker 2: looks rich as fuck and the judge in her are
Speaker 2: good friends.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he says Mary.
Speaker 2: And Peter is threatened, like excuse me, what is happening,
Speaker 2: but he is honored and she reps the sun and
Speaker 2: she walks up to the dad and introduces herself and says,
Speaker 2: I'm JJ's lawyer and I'm gonna need that document, thank you.
Speaker 2: And Peter knows what they're up to, you know, all
Speaker 2: these shady as fucking people. But he's not happy, and
Speaker 2: we get a drinking game. If you're drinking right now.
Speaker 2: He is so lucky, and he gets to say, fishing expedition,
Speaker 2: So take a shot. Take a shot, honey, I mean
Speaker 2: I want to take a shot, okay, marlow because you know,
Speaker 2: there's forty five minutes left.
Speaker 3: Of this episode.
Speaker 2: And so then Marlowe like goes at the dad and
Speaker 2: he's like, we want to talk to the kid, like
Speaker 2: we need the kid, and the dad goes, no, the
Speaker 2: kid doesn't trust or like you, and he actually brings
Speaker 2: up a good point. He goes, all of you guys,
Speaker 2: all your ada's and all of you. You broke our doors,
Speaker 2: you arrested him, you threw him in the nuthouse, and
Speaker 2: then he told you what you wanted to hear. That
Speaker 2: confession isn't working, like you guys did all of this
Speaker 2: fucked up shit to get this confession.
Speaker 3: And that is a good point. That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: The defense has like the Bad Team has really good
Speaker 2: points and moves and stuff where, yeah, like he didn't
Speaker 2: want to be he wanted to get out of the nuthouse.
Speaker 2: He'll tell you anything you want to hear.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: But also in this scene, do you see that the
Speaker 1: dad looks like mister Incredible from The Incredibles. I didn't,
Speaker 1: but now I could suck, yes, a large jaw, like
Speaker 1: this man is mister Incredible, but not in a good way.
Speaker 2: You love him And the dad goes and you're never
Speaker 2: gonna find him. He's hidden, he's safe and you will
Speaker 2: never get to him. And Marlow pushes him and goes, well,
Speaker 2: if he recanted on his own volition and he only
Speaker 2: said that nothing happened because we pressured him and he
Speaker 2: felt threatened by all of us, then why are you
Speaker 2: hiding him? And he denies hiding him and goes, he
Speaker 2: just needed to get away and it's just it's just
Speaker 2: sad and it's annoying and it's all jumbled up. And
Speaker 2: the judge says, get the boy and I will talk
Speaker 2: to him alone, and that's how I'll make a decision
Speaker 2: about everything, and the dad says no, and Marlow's like,
Speaker 2: do you want to go to jail or what. And
Speaker 2: so then it's Marlow, Novak and Maloney and they're scheming
Speaker 2: of what to do next, and they put the dad
Speaker 2: in jail. You know, he says he's doing it to
Speaker 2: protect his son, but they know they're doing it to
Speaker 2: protect the money. And if he was protecting his son,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be in this mess. And so the dad
Speaker 2: goes to fucking jail and Marlow says, I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep him in jail until the boy is twenty one,
Speaker 2: so basically like until he materializes the boy he has
Speaker 2: to sit in jail. And I guess he's a kid
Speaker 2: until twenty one in the state of courts. So Stabler goes, oh,
Speaker 2: that's why they call you a hanging judge to Marlowe
Speaker 2: and she goes, wait, who says that? And Novak says,
Speaker 2: fuck the dad and let's find him ourselves.
Speaker 3: And Stable goes, Okay, we're trying.
Speaker 2: We can't a Marlow says, well, I work at a fancy
Speaker 2: law firm and I'll.
Speaker 1: Get you guys pis. We have pis on retainer.
Speaker 2: But I think that's kind of insulting to tell detectives, right,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's kind of like we
Speaker 2: just have like someone that can be dedicated to this. Ostensibly,
Speaker 2: we have to believe that Stable and Benson are working
Speaker 2: on seventeen other cases at the same time, like in reality,
Speaker 2: you know, so I think she's just like we can
Speaker 2: give you guys that this will just be what they're
Speaker 2: working on. So yeah, so we have Pi's now looking
Speaker 2: for JJ, and Munch walks in with the paper and
Speaker 2: the PR machine of Billy Tripley is spinning it like
Speaker 2: JJ is crazy and you know, big bucks equals PR
Speaker 2: equals spin, so nobody can find him, and now everyone
Speaker 2: thinks he's nuts and this guy just has so much
Speaker 2: fucking money. A nondescript white man with gray hair and
Speaker 2: no features that are unique and special in any way
Speaker 2: at all, like I don't even remember what he looks like,
Speaker 2: walks up to Benson and says, I was told to
Speaker 2: find you. And they talk a little bit, and he
Speaker 2: says that he runs a program for terminal patients and
Speaker 2: you know, he gets them ready for death, and he's
Speaker 2: a therapist and he was counseling a nine year old
Speaker 2: girl with leukemia and he thinks that she was molested
Speaker 2: by Billy tripley. So now we rush over to the
Speaker 2: apartment of Nora Hodges and it's the mom from earlier.
Speaker 2: If you guys remember when Benson and Saylor went to
Speaker 2: bully Billy at a party, there was an old woman
Speaker 2: who was calling him a saint with her sick daughter,
Speaker 2: and so that's all right too, yeah, granddaughter, thank you
Speaker 2: so much, and she's drama, drama, drama.
Speaker 3: She's like, of course, like, oh my god, it's all
Speaker 3: my fault.
Speaker 2: I'm so stupid, and Standlor is like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: it is your fault, left if you left your kid
Speaker 2: alone with this man, and she's we find out she's
Speaker 2: seen Billy twice since they bumped into each other at
Speaker 2: that party and were April's pair rance the father was
Speaker 2: never in the picture, and then you know, unfortunately the
Speaker 2: mom got mixed up in drugs and alcohol and abandoned
Speaker 2: April when she was born. So it's just grandma and
Speaker 2: granddaughter and she's at chemo during the day, so now
Speaker 2: she's sleeping, and now Norah's at the precincts with April
Speaker 2: and Olivia and everyone's there, and Olivia gives her a
Speaker 2: jukes box, but she's like, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know if I'll be able to keep the juice down.
Speaker 2: And it's really sad that she can't even but she
Speaker 2: needs to hydrate.
Speaker 3: So the grandma's like.
Speaker 2: Well, you have to hydrate a little, even though you
Speaker 2: might puke it all up. And it's just sad, and
Speaker 2: her bandana is giant over her tiny, tiny, little bald head.
Speaker 2: She starts explaining what happened. She says, there were tons
Speaker 2: of kids there and they played games and it was fun,
Speaker 2: and and the grandma interrupts and says, she got over.
Speaker 3: Excited and she had to nap, and then what did
Speaker 3: he say?
Speaker 2: And she's coaching her a little bit, but since she
Speaker 2: was tired, she said, you know, I would love to
Speaker 2: take a nap, and other kids nap there, and everyone
Speaker 2: was napping, so he took her to the basal room,
Speaker 2: the treasure room to nap, and she picked out a press.
Speaker 2: Everything happened whatever, a molestation went down and she was
Speaker 2: abused and it sucks and it's sad. So Craigan and
Speaker 2: Novak and Huang are spying through all of this, and
Speaker 2: then before we see that, like the little girl's nose
Speaker 2: starts bleeding. So she's like talking about being molested. She
Speaker 2: gets so sad. The grandma's yelling because she's annoying, like, also,
Speaker 2: your granddaughter just got molested, and then the nose is
Speaker 2: bleeding and just all around a really sad situation. And
Speaker 2: it gets worse when when Huang says that kids with
Speaker 2: disabilities are twice as likely to be abused and more
Speaker 2: because they're more likely to comply and less likely to report.
Speaker 1: Like that makes sense, but just a fact I didn't
Speaker 1: need to hear, just so sad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Novak's like, well that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Billy is surrounded by sick kids all the time, like
Speaker 2: we need to fucking get this guy. But then they
Speaker 2: have to discuss pedophiles. They're into boys and girls, and
Speaker 2: Huang sent shivers down my spine saying, well, at that age,
Speaker 2: it's more about the hairlessness.
Speaker 3: Kill me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the innocence and they talk about like, you know,
Speaker 2: he has a Peter Pan vibe. Did you hear about
Speaker 2: the new Peter Pan theory that I saw I read
Speaker 2: on the internet Someone said, what if Captain Hook was
Speaker 2: actually a good guy because he only went after Peter Pan,
Speaker 2: none of the kids ever, and maybe he was trying
Speaker 2: to stop Peter Pan from kidnapping children.
Speaker 3: He was trying to stop him from having all the
Speaker 3: lost boys. Yeah, well I don't know, just just a thought.
Speaker 1: So Captain Hook is Stabler and Peter Pan is a
Speaker 1: child molester.
Speaker 2: So now we jumped to Melinda finally, baby, we missed you,
Speaker 2: and she's with Billy and she's being so mean to
Speaker 2: him and I love it. She's plucking hair out of
Speaker 2: his head from DNA and she needs tons of it
Speaker 2: with the rude and he's screaming police abuse and and
Speaker 2: that this there's another funny moment where Stabler goes, oh,
Speaker 2: if it was police abuse, trust me, you would feel it.
Speaker 2: And Billy goes, has that a threat? Melinda? Did you
Speaker 2: hear that he threatened me? And Melinda goes, nope, now
Speaker 2: open your mouth.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: So she looks stunning in a half up, half down
Speaker 2: situation with her hair, and Maloney's trying to rile Billy up,
Speaker 2: and they have like this back and forth about the
Speaker 2: treasure room and he goes, I haven't even been back
Speaker 2: into the treasure room since you ruined it for me.
Speaker 2: And Melinda has no time for anything. She has dead
Speaker 2: bodies to go examine. She goes, drop your pants I
Speaker 2: need a pubic hair sample, and I'm gonna need ten
Speaker 2: of those, and so now she has to do that,
Speaker 2: but he has no pubic hair, and they're like, I
Speaker 2: guess we have to wait till it grows back, and
Speaker 2: he lasered it off, and so he takes off his
Speaker 2: pants and there's absolutely no pubic hair, and now they're
Speaker 2: just taking photos of his, you know, hairless dick.
Speaker 3: Yikes.
Speaker 2: Now Benson is looking at the picks at the squadroom
Speaker 2: with Maloney and says, Wow, it keeps getting freakier and freakier,
Speaker 2: and I love the way she says freaky. They got
Speaker 2: some info that JJ might be in Maine, so they're
Speaker 2: working on that. But also, April, the sick girl, never
Speaker 2: mentioned the birthmark on Billy's dick, so they're like oh,
Speaker 2: and Benson says it's because the girl had her eyes
Speaker 2: closed the whole time. So the Novak comes in with
Speaker 2: a giant bombshell that Tripoli's legal team hired a PI
Speaker 2: to follow April and Nora and caught Norah stealing on
Speaker 2: a security camera. So now will the newspapers say shoplifting Granny?
Speaker 2: And now Granny is an interrogation. But it's only two
Speaker 2: hundred dollars worth of clothes, so like, who cares?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: It's like they're going too hard on clothing theft.
Speaker 3: You like, yeah, clothing theft doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: You would not be sitting in interrogation for a clothing theft, right,
Speaker 2: But she goes, listen, I need to get April closed.
Speaker 2: We don't have we don't have any money. And if
Speaker 2: Tripley was innocent, why would you go through all these
Speaker 2: lengths and why are you Like they can't like the
Speaker 2: Grandma's sad. She doesn't want, you know, her mistakes to
Speaker 2: punish April. And they're like, well it's happening, so like
Speaker 2: we don't know what to do, Like he has tons
Speaker 2: of money, he's spinning everything. And she goes into this
Speaker 2: huge sob story about April and how tough her life
Speaker 2: is and how her parents were bad and sick and
Speaker 2: now molested, and that's like the worst threesome you can
Speaker 2: have bad parents, sick as fuck and molested.
Speaker 3: I mean that's not a good life. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, Craigan and Novak do a walk and talk, and
Speaker 2: we learned that Melinda's processing a hair found in April's underwear,
Speaker 2: but you know he has no pubes. No one has pubes.
Speaker 2: She doesn't have any hair, so what is it? So
Speaker 2: Novak just says, like, give me the results when you
Speaker 2: have them. Now back to more water. I mean, this scene,
Speaker 2: this episode is so many walking talks, so many walking talks.
Speaker 2: Now the walk and talk is Melinda Benson and Stabler,
Speaker 2: and something with the results just doesn't make sense. She
Speaker 2: drew April's blood just in case Billy gave her any STDs.
Speaker 3: She wanted to check the blood for STDs.
Speaker 2: But the blood is normal, like normal normal, like hello,
Speaker 2: leukemia fucks up your white blood cells.
Speaker 3: But there's nothing. There's no sign of cancer none.
Speaker 2: Fuck, oh my god, her life is getting worse like
Speaker 2: And also, when they diagnose children with cancer and with leukemia,
Speaker 2: the doctors take a bone biopsy to confirm it, and
Speaker 2: it's done by drilling small holes in the pelvic bone
Speaker 2: and those holes never heal and April's X rays to
Speaker 2: her hips do not have the little holes.
Speaker 3: She never had cancer.
Speaker 2: This fucking granny bitch is a what is it swindler?
Speaker 3: Grifter?
Speaker 7: Yeah, well it's it's crazy, like this is truly like
Speaker 7: the fucking Gypsy Rose story ten years before that story
Speaker 7: actually went down, Like it's nuts.
Speaker 3: So we're at the doctor.
Speaker 2: We're at the hospital and it's the hot surfer doctor
Speaker 2: guy and he's this.
Speaker 1: Guy is such like he almost doesn't fit like he
Speaker 1: fits for me as like a doctor on another show,
Speaker 1: but like on SVU, Like I've never seen a doctor
Speaker 1: that looks like this man on SVU.
Speaker 3: He's just so like was a like, I don't know
Speaker 3: he's at he's a beach bum.
Speaker 2: He's like a babatch boy like, yeah, blonde highlights, yeah,
Speaker 2: very not New York.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But he says, thank god you brought her in right now.
Speaker 2: She would have been dead in a few weeks from
Speaker 2: mercury poisoning. And wait what And so Nora was killing
Speaker 2: her own granddaughter for almost a year now. The grandma
Speaker 2: convinced her that they were too poor to go to
Speaker 2: the doctor, and so that's why, like the grandma needed
Speaker 2: to give her the medicine. But she was actually using
Speaker 2: mercury to make the daughter sick because it gives the
Speaker 2: same side effects as leukemia. It stops cell growth, there's nausea,
Speaker 2: hair and weight loss, and she'll be okay, some permanent
Speaker 2: like bone damage, but she's gonna be better. And this
Speaker 2: little girl is so bald, she's in the hospital. Her
Speaker 2: voice is so sweet, and she goes, I heard grand
Speaker 2: is the one making me sick.
Speaker 3: It's like really sad.
Speaker 2: So then they're like, she lied to you and it
Speaker 2: sucks and she lie. You know what else did you
Speaker 2: li about? Did you lie about the billy stuff? And
Speaker 2: she was like yeah. The grandma basically told her to
Speaker 2: become friends with him. Aunt asked to nap, but she
Speaker 2: just napped on the couch and they were like, well,
Speaker 2: how did you know what to say?
Speaker 3: And we get more. So the grandma would snip out.
Speaker 2: All of the story and information from the papers about
Speaker 2: the case and made a scrapbook of articles and that
Speaker 2: April had to study them every single day, and then
Speaker 2: Nora would quiz her on the details of what to
Speaker 2: lie about, and she kept.
Speaker 3: This book by all the cookbooks.
Speaker 2: Grand said it was her only chance to get the
Speaker 2: money to give her the medicine or that she would die,
Speaker 2: so she had to do this to get medicine to
Speaker 2: save her from leukemia. And she goes, but grand said,
Speaker 2: she loved me. How can she make me sick? If
Speaker 2: she loved me. It's sad, but they did stay sick again, if.
Speaker 3: You want to take a shot.
Speaker 2: The granny is finally in jail, thank fucking god, and
Speaker 2: Novak's being tough on her, like she does not give
Speaker 2: a shit.
Speaker 3: She's like, I loved the girl. I knew it was wrong,
Speaker 3: but but something's wrong with me.
Speaker 2: And she does have an amazing defense attorney Cleo Conrad.
Speaker 2: I don't know how she nabbed her, but it's Jill
Speaker 2: Marie Laurence seventeen SVU episodes. And she's like, honey, there
Speaker 2: is something wrong with you. Let me interject munch husands
Speaker 2: by proxy, and it's not your fault.
Speaker 3: And Novak's body language is so fuck you.
Speaker 2: She hates them, and so basically she's like, okay, we
Speaker 2: gotta talk tripley and the grand throws April under the bus.
Speaker 2: She straight up says that it was April's lie and
Speaker 2: that the grandma believed it because April said it at
Speaker 2: the nerve of this woman. And then Novak, without skipping
Speaker 2: a beat, goes, we have the scrap book and.
Speaker 3: It's amazing, and then all of a sudden, you know.
Speaker 2: Cleo Conrad looks nervous, Granny looks nervous, and it's a
Speaker 2: moment and I love it.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I think it's my favorite. I call it the Martin
Speaker 2: Short moment. But I do love that one moment where
Speaker 2: the criminal knows they got got and.
Speaker 3: Their face just switches right away. Yeah, I really like that.
Speaker 3: It's cool acting too.
Speaker 2: Everyone looks worried, like I said that they got got,
Speaker 2: and she turns it again and is like, I'm innocent.
Speaker 2: He's a pedophile. We have to get this pedophile. I
Speaker 2: just yeah, criminals. All movies should just be filled with criminals.
Speaker 2: The best actors in the world. So and then Cleo's
Speaker 2: sorry to say this, but she had like such nice
Speaker 2: gold hoops in this gold necklace with a pearl, and
Speaker 2: I really liked it. Novak does offer a deal to
Speaker 2: Cleo Conrad, but for more information from the grandma, and
Speaker 2: basically they start discussing that the crime lab found a
Speaker 2: hair in the underwear. Granny said that she snuck into
Speaker 2: a room and stole it from his hair brush and
Speaker 2: planted it on her clothing, and she's not gonna admit
Speaker 2: what she did was wrong, and Novak yells at her like, well,
Speaker 2: now in the future, when anyone claims any sexual assault
Speaker 2: or rape. For this guy, he's gonna be able to
Speaker 2: like go back to this case and say how everyone's
Speaker 2: lying and everyone wants money and you just fucked up
Speaker 2: victims forever. And she says I'm sorry, and Novak goes,
Speaker 2: I don't believe you have fun in prison, and Kleio's like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: you set a deal, you set a deal, and Novak says,
Speaker 2: uh uh, that deal was for Tripoli, not the cancer scam.
Speaker 2: And Cleo goes, but munchausends. Munchausends, and Novak doesn't give
Speaker 2: us shit. She goes, bowl she's been working this for
Speaker 2: a year, sixty thousand dollars, she's fucking stolen from people.
Speaker 2: We're taking you to trial. There is no deal, and
Speaker 2: she's like, but think of April, and Novak goes, that's
Speaker 2: really rich, bitch.
Speaker 3: You almost killed her.
Speaker 2: And guess what I'm charging you with attempted murder too,
Speaker 2: and she yells intosperation like I'm.
Speaker 3: Sick too, I'm sick too, sick again.
Speaker 2: So Novak go's, you're just a greedy bitch, and the
Speaker 2: jury's going to see right through that. Back at the squadron,
Speaker 2: Marlowe walks in and they did find JJ.
Speaker 3: He's been at an uncle's house.
Speaker 2: But then they all to Canada and escaped and they
Speaker 2: have no authority to.
Speaker 3: Bring him back.
Speaker 2: So now both cases against Billy have been blown the
Speaker 2: fuck up. But don't forget the Dad is still sitting
Speaker 2: in jail and marlow says he will not leave until
Speaker 2: he produces JJ. So like this, Dad is now sitting
Speaker 2: in jail, which he deserves it. We hate him, but like,
Speaker 2: I wonder what just because of the contract, Like, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna be able to use your millions if you're
Speaker 2: sitting in jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, oh my god, watch this and they turn
Speaker 2: on the TV and Billy is having a giant victory party.
Speaker 2: He invited the media. He's wearing a lot of green
Speaker 2: green suspenders. Hello, Saint Patti's Day, and he says that
Speaker 2: he's been vindicated and the children are the real winners.
Speaker 1: And then Benson goes, it's sick. It's like five times yeah,
Speaker 1: and Stabler says, we will get him. We'll get him
Speaker 1: one of these chances. Like there's gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: more chances, unfortunately, and we're gonna fucking get him and
Speaker 1: then it on him, just like partying hardcore with a
Speaker 1: bunch of children in his pedophile outfits. And it's probably
Speaker 1: one of the more realistic twisted endings of SVU, which
Speaker 1: is rich people get away with their crimes. So yeah, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for taking us through that, you know, depressing
Speaker 1: but very funny episode of Sview.
Speaker 3: Now fill me in, fill me in. Yeah, they'll be
Speaker 3: right back with the real crime. Welcome back.
Speaker 1: So obviously this episode is based on Michael Jackson. Everyone
Speaker 1: calls this the Michael Jackson episode. Billy Tripley clearly has
Speaker 1: been styled to look like Michael Jackson, and he's not
Speaker 1: a huge pop star, but he's you know, got something
Speaker 1: that would appeal to children, which is like this toy company.
Speaker 3: The money, I think the money, yeah, like the money
Speaker 3: is huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Michael jacks The amount of money Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson had was just like out of this world, Like
Speaker 1: I don't even think we can like fully get a
Speaker 1: hold of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no one, Well, I think just like the way
Speaker 2: media is now, like who knows if anyone will be
Speaker 2: able to have that sort of a worldwide appeal. But
Speaker 2: like the Mike, no, Michael Jackson was something that I
Speaker 2: never that's he's on his own thing.
Speaker 1: Yes, like fully known on all continents everywhere you go,
Speaker 1: icon of twentieth century entertainment. I don't think I need
Speaker 1: to get too deep into who Michael Jackson is if
Speaker 1: you're listening and you don't know, Like I mean, he's
Speaker 1: like a singer, dancer, a child star, grew up with
Speaker 1: the Jackson the Jackson family that became the Jackson Five,
Speaker 1: and you know was a.
Speaker 2: Way hold on if you do not know who Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson is until you've listened to this episode of the show,
Speaker 2: please dm us we would like to talk to you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we would like to chat.
Speaker 1: That would be I mean, I think maybe there might
Speaker 1: be some people that are like only in the twenties
Speaker 1: or something like young and might not know like the
Speaker 1: details of this because I grew up with this case
Speaker 1: in the news. For me, so like I've always like
Speaker 1: but even going through this, I was like learning more
Speaker 1: because I've never really done a full deep dive into
Speaker 1: what exactly the allegations weren't, how many there were and
Speaker 1: this and.
Speaker 2: That, and I'm really strong I feel strongly like I
Speaker 2: don't want to hear r Kelly. I don't want to
Speaker 2: like give money to molesters. I don't watch Rede but
Speaker 2: because he's dead, I feel okay listening to his music.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if everyone agrees with that or not.
Speaker 2: But in my had him like the kids are making
Speaker 2: the money now whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's complicated, but yes, this he is
Speaker 1: basically the number one. Him and Woody Allen are probably
Speaker 1: the number one, like a like examples when you have
Speaker 1: the argument of like can you separate the art from
Speaker 1: the artist? You know, like can you listen to someone's music,
Speaker 1: watch appreciate someone's movies when you know something that they've
Speaker 1: done is wrong or whatever. So Michael Jackson was from
Speaker 1: a young age kind of it seemed like emotionally unwell.
Speaker 2: I can't diagnose him, but he was. He had Gary Indiana,
Speaker 2: who's doing well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he famously had, you know, an abusive father who
Speaker 1: pushed them into sow business. He was the star star
Speaker 1: star of the family like fully so, but the father
Speaker 1: was always allegedly abusive, and he I think from age
Speaker 1: like five or six was in the limelight and like
Speaker 1: never really had a childhood. So for a lot of
Speaker 1: his career, his older career. He was dogged by allegations
Speaker 1: of sexual abuse, as he was known to have young
Speaker 1: children at his home at the Neverland Ranch all the
Speaker 1: time and they would often sleep over without parental supervision.
Speaker 1: So the Neverland Ranch is like two and a half
Speaker 1: hours north of LA and Santa Barbara County.
Speaker 3: It's massive.
Speaker 1: I'll go into more detail about it, but the timeline
Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson's you know, sort of issues start as
Speaker 1: early as nineteen eighty six. He met a ten year
Speaker 1: old boy named James Jimmy Safe Chuck or Sepha Chuck.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you say those last name, but
Speaker 1: it's the word safe and the word chuck, who was
Speaker 1: playing a Michael Jackson obsessed kid in a Pepsi commercial
Speaker 1: And I like watched the commercial. It's like he sneaks
Speaker 1: into Michael's dressing room and he's trying on all of
Speaker 1: his stuff and Michael comes in and is like hey,
Speaker 1: and it's like it is indicative of how children felt
Speaker 1: about Michael Jackson throughout the eighties and nineties, Like they
Speaker 1: were really obsessed with him, the way he danced, like
Speaker 1: his worldwide celebrity.
Speaker 3: Everything to do with Michael Jackson. People were obsessed with him.
Speaker 1: So Michael eventually befriended this kid, Jimmy his family. The
Speaker 1: family was given gifts and trips, and then Jimmy went
Speaker 1: on tour with him and they began.
Speaker 3: Sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 1: So that was going on in the eighties, but there
Speaker 1: were never any allegations made, and the first official allegation
Speaker 1: of misconduct happened in nineteen ninety three and was made
Speaker 1: by a thirteen year old boy named Jordan Chandler and
Speaker 1: his father Evan, who accused Jackson of sexual abuse against
Speaker 1: the team. So what happened was in May of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety two, Michael Jackson's car broke down, so he called
Speaker 1: rent arec, which I literally thought was what comedians who
Speaker 1: don't have credit cards would get, like they take debit cards.
Speaker 3: So I just thought rent direct is like the worst
Speaker 3: you can do.
Speaker 1: But apparently in the early nineties it was like what
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair called it, LA's hip car rental agency. So whatever,
Speaker 1: I just thought it was for like loser comedians with
Speaker 1: no credit like my husband used to be because he
Speaker 1: used to do rent Direct. So what happened was the
Speaker 1: owner of rent Direct calls his wife and says get
Speaker 1: over there where to where Michael Jackson's car is stalled,
Speaker 1: so you can introduce him to your son, Jordan. It
Speaker 1: wasn't his son, it was her son from a previous relationship.
Speaker 1: And the father of the kid is actually a Beverly
Speaker 1: Hill dentist and part time screenwriter, which I love. There's
Speaker 1: many people in the story who are one profession and
Speaker 1: part time screenwriters. But this kid, Jordan, is twelve at
Speaker 1: the time, and he's obsessed with Michael Jackson. So the
Speaker 1: guy's like, get over there so he can meet Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1: So after this meeting that happens because of a broke
Speaker 1: down car, Jackson begins calling Jordan every day and he
Speaker 1: was essentially in love with this boy. So and it's
Speaker 1: worth noting also that Jordan, even though he was twelve,
Speaker 1: people often thought he was like nine ten, like that
Speaker 1: he looked younger than he was.
Speaker 2: So but the parent, well, but the parents they didn't
Speaker 2: have like they weren't like Jaj's parents. They just wanted,
Speaker 2: like the kid to meet Michael Jackson because he's the
Speaker 2: most famous person ever.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, but there's more about the mom.
Speaker 1: Like the mom, the mom sort of was into like
Speaker 1: the glitzy life. So so when Michael Jackson first called
Speaker 1: Jordan to invite him to Neverland, it's two days after
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson has done his interview with Oprah Winfrey, and
Speaker 1: like this is coming off of a full, like three
Speaker 1: week media blitz about with Michael Jackson, Like he's just
Speaker 1: done the Clinton inauguration, He's done the Super Bowl, he's
Speaker 1: done the American Music Awards, like he's fully at the
Speaker 1: top of the Zeit guys, like everyone's fucking talking about
Speaker 1: this man, and here he is inviting this twelve year
Speaker 1: old boy come to my ranch at Neverland. So just
Speaker 1: to set the scene, obviously this kid and the family
Speaker 1: are like ecstatic. So on that first visit, Jordan, his sister,
Speaker 1: and his mother sleep in a guest house which is
Speaker 1: apparently very far from the main house where Michael Jackson sleeps.
Speaker 1: And one detail about Michael Jackson about the Neverland ranch
Speaker 1: that was in this long Vanity Fair article I read,
Speaker 1: which will be in the show notes, is that at
Speaker 1: Neverland there was a merry go round that played like
Speaker 1: a virgin I don't know why parents were not fucking
Speaker 1: running for the doors when they walked into this place,
Speaker 1: but because.
Speaker 2: It was like a bit that's just a famous song,
Speaker 2: but it only played like a virgin.
Speaker 1: I guess that's like what it says in the article
Speaker 1: that this Marrygo Round plays like a virgin. Like I
Speaker 1: know you're friends with Madonna, but like, how about like
Speaker 1: a prayer? I don't know, there's other songs we can do.
Speaker 1: How about Lucky Star that's cute for kids, Like let's
Speaker 1: do another Madonna song? Yeah, and so he bought. Obviously,
Speaker 1: he buys Jordan and his sister toys, takes them on
Speaker 1: like toys or US shopping spreeze, and eventually the mom
Speaker 1: started getting gifts too serious jewelry.
Speaker 3: And then he.
Speaker 1: Invites the family back the next weekend, and like most
Speaker 1: guests at the ranch, Jordan had to sign a confidentiality
Speaker 1: agreement that he would not speak to the press or
Speaker 1: write about anything that went on there. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that means Jordan actually signed it or if
Speaker 1: his parents signed it, because yeah, I don't know that
Speaker 1: like a twelve year old kid is allowed to sign
Speaker 1: a document, but that is what I what I found
Speaker 1: in my research. And so on this trip, Michael took
Speaker 1: them in a limo to Disneyland, and they of course
Speaker 1: got like full VIP treatment there, and then they started
Speaker 1: spending every weekend at the Neverland Ranch, and Jordan's mom
Speaker 1: and dad were estranged and Jordan was withdrawn from other kids.
Speaker 1: So obviously, you know, it's like Michael Jackson knew who
Speaker 1: to pick, you know, like he picked specific kids that had, like,
Speaker 1: you know, some family fracturing going on. So in March
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety three, Jordan spent four days at Neverland Ranch,
Speaker 1: and there were other boys there too, including eleven year
Speaker 1: old Brett Barnes ten year old Wade Robes, who were
Speaker 1: also there, as well as the Cassio brothers or Caskio brothers.
Speaker 3: Hey is Wade Rout that's the choreographer.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, huge, huge part of this, but I will
Speaker 1: get to him. So also these Cassio brothers, Eddie and Frank,
Speaker 1: who were nine and thirteen, who had traveled alone with
Speaker 1: Jackson in the fall on his dangerous tour. What is
Speaker 1: happening Like who is letting children go with him while
Speaker 1: they're not even there like that?
Speaker 3: I just don't understand that part of it at all.
Speaker 2: I know, I wonder if it's just I mean, he
Speaker 2: was so iconic like yeah, well yeah, and he was
Speaker 2: childlike I get into it a little bit more.
Speaker 1: But so Brett Barnes, one of the boys who was there,
Speaker 1: like told the TV station like at some point after
Speaker 1: there was when there was investigation later, it's a huge bed.
Speaker 1: We all sleep in the bed. But it's a huge bed,
Speaker 1: you know, Like it was no big deal. We all
Speaker 1: would sleep in it together. And so then at the
Speaker 1: end of that same march, he took the whole family
Speaker 1: in a private jet to Vegas, Jordan's whole family. So
Speaker 1: there was just a lot of time being spent and
Speaker 1: that Jordan and Michael shared a bed while his mother
Speaker 1: and sister slept in another room in the suite in Vegas.
Speaker 1: And when they wanted to sleep together the next night,
Speaker 1: the mother objected and it's like, oh, now you're suddenly
Speaker 1: interested in doing this, like he's already stayed at Neverland
Speaker 1: for four days, like it's just crazy. Like now the
Speaker 1: mom's like, no, actually, I don't think so. And they
Speaker 1: got into like a little like skirmish, her and Michael Jackson,
Speaker 1: and he said to her, this is about being a family,
Speaker 1: not making judgments. Why don't you trust me if we're
Speaker 1: a family You've got to think of me as a brother.
Speaker 1: Why make me feel so bad. This is a bond.
Speaker 1: It's not about sex. This is something special. End of quote.
Speaker 3: And that was like good enough.
Speaker 1: Basically at the end, he said, I'll let Jordan sleep
Speaker 1: wherever Jordan wants to sleep, and Jordan wanted to sleep
Speaker 1: with him, and so she goes, all right, good enough
Speaker 1: for me, and the mom just said, like, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: let my thirteen year old son share a bed with
Speaker 1: a thirty five four year old man, which is what
Speaker 1: happened for the next three months. They shared a bed
Speaker 1: almost every single night for three months, and then Michael
Speaker 1: moved in with their family in their modest little house
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica Canyon, which is kind of like near
Speaker 1: the Palisades, and then he would just chill at their
Speaker 1: house while Jordan went to school all day, like waiting
Speaker 1: for him to come home wild.
Speaker 3: So I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1: Actually, up until this point, the Vegas of it, all
Speaker 1: the four days that the Neverland Ranch, none of the
Speaker 1: touching had started yet with Jordan. In April of that year,
Speaker 1: it starts. It starts at Neverland, and I wonder was
Speaker 1: he trying not to do it? And he was holding
Speaker 1: back the stuff. I think he was working his way
Speaker 1: up to getting him to sleep in the room with him,
Speaker 1: because now that they're at never.
Speaker 3: Look they slept for three months together.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm sorry that this is what happens
Speaker 1: from the end of from April on. But now I'm
Speaker 1: talking about April, like the beginning of April. So I
Speaker 1: think what happened in the order of operations is like
Speaker 1: all of March, he spends whining and dining the family,
Speaker 1: working his way up to letting him sleep in the
Speaker 1: bed with him. And now it's April and this begins
Speaker 1: the three months. And this is also when the sexual,
Speaker 1: well a touching starts.
Speaker 3: Got it in thee at Neverland.
Speaker 2: But can you imagine outside of the molasting, but can
Speaker 2: you imagine, like Michael Jackson is staying at your house?
Speaker 3: I mean, how do you say, I don't like? What
Speaker 3: do you do?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: I That's just such a wild concept to me. I'm
Speaker 2: thinking like if it was someone now, like if Rihanna
Speaker 2: was like, hey, can I crash with you?
Speaker 3: And you're no? And what's Yeah?
Speaker 1: Our wild is like at Neverland, he's got a staff
Speaker 1: of fifty plus people that are waiting on him twenty
Speaker 1: four to seven, like food, chefs, you know, like everything.
Speaker 1: So it's like, why would you even leave all that
Speaker 1: to go? But I think it was like part of
Speaker 1: his grooming and part of the like we're part of
Speaker 1: a family. See I come stay with you like I'm
Speaker 1: on your turf now, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: I think that must be must kind of a part
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: So diabolical because this whole thing about Michael Jackson is
Speaker 2: like he's abused, and he's innocent, and he's.
Speaker 3: Just like a childlike character.
Speaker 2: But then when you get to it, this is like
Speaker 2: a diabolical, evil, planned, fucking pedophile.
Speaker 1: No, and there's parts later where he as kids parents
Speaker 1: like can they come with me or stay with me
Speaker 1: or come on tour with me for a while, And
Speaker 1: the parents will say no, and then Michael will say
Speaker 1: something like well I always get what I want, so
Speaker 1: just so you know, like it's gonna happen. Like so it's, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, like he's we do see him as this
Speaker 1: childlike person, but he is quite diabolical. So whenever they're
Speaker 1: at the ranch now, Jordan stays with Michael and his
Speaker 1: mother and sister are still there, but they're in the
Speaker 1: guest house. But both of those buildings are very far
Speaker 1: apart from each other. They're locked at night, and they're
Speaker 1: heavily patrolled by security, So like, even if the mom
Speaker 1: got like a feeling in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: she couldn't go over and like see what her son
Speaker 1: was up to because he's locked in a building with
Speaker 1: a thirty four year old man and very very the
Speaker 1: Treasure Room, Michael's bedroom is connected by a secret staircase
Speaker 1: to a special guest room called the Shirley Temple Room.
Speaker 3: Yikes.
Speaker 1: Former employees of the ranch said that a lot of
Speaker 1: boys were invited to sleep in the Shirley Temple Room
Speaker 1: and that they would often find the bed untouched when
Speaker 1: they got in there.
Speaker 3: So I don't know that that's like they're just not sleeping.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening, And that he was so
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson was so serious about privacy that the floor
Speaker 1: outside his bedroom was wired so that whenever anyone would
Speaker 1: come within five feet of the entrance, there would be
Speaker 1: like ringing ding dong noises. So very paranoid, but also
Speaker 1: definitely you're doing something wrong. And what I read was
Speaker 1: that what His plan was basically was he would have
Speaker 1: these kids over and he would assault them with like
Speaker 1: loud music, bright lights, like all kinds of shit, and
Speaker 1: then sometimes he would just molest them and hope that
Speaker 1: they would be almost too distracted by the other stuff
Speaker 1: that was going on to even notice that they were
Speaker 1: being molested, because it was like huge, crazy party vibes.
Speaker 3: And all this stuff while he was molesting them.
Speaker 1: But Jordan said that Michael began like it started with
Speaker 1: Michael rubbing up against him and eventually kissing him, and
Speaker 1: that like Michael is now taking Jordan and his family
Speaker 1: on trips all over the world. They're photographed together a ton.
Speaker 1: The kid is so cute too, Jordan, and then the
Speaker 1: kid is dressing just like Michael Jackson, like when they're
Speaker 1: on tour together, he's dressing like Michael Jackson, the hat,
Speaker 1: the glove, like the full thing. On a trip to
Speaker 1: Monaco with the family, shit gets even sketchier. Michael starts
Speaker 1: orally copulating the boy, masturbating him, et cetera. And Jackson
Speaker 1: told Jordan, if you tell anyone, we'll both get in
Speaker 1: trouble and you're gonna go to Juvie so that you
Speaker 1: know was explains why he's like also not telling people.
Speaker 1: But and so the does this family still own the
Speaker 1: Wreckord car Rental? Oh so let me just explain the
Speaker 1: family again. Okay, So to explain the family dynamic really quickly.
Speaker 1: Jordan's mother is named June Chandler. She's like a former model.
Speaker 1: She was married to Evan Chandler, who is his father.
Speaker 1: Jordan's father, the Beverly Hills dentist slash screenwriter.
Speaker 3: They divorced.
Speaker 1: She married the wreck the rent direct guy. They're a
Speaker 1: strange now, Okay. So, so Jordan's dad is the dentist
Speaker 1: screenwriter and he was kind of originally jazzed about this relationship,
Speaker 1: kind of thought it would maybe help him be able
Speaker 1: to like get into movies and get some of his
Speaker 1: movies made. But then he actually seems like one of
Speaker 1: the only parents that has like a fucking piece of
Speaker 1: intuition in his body because he saw his son and
Speaker 1: Jackson together and just like the vibe between them got
Speaker 1: him suspicious, and he could tell that Michael Jackson was
Speaker 1: trying to play the parents off of each other, Like
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson and Jordan would talk shit about the mom
Speaker 1: to him, and he's like, I don't really want to
Speaker 1: destroy the full family dynamic that we have of like
Speaker 1: you know, co parenting, even though we're divorced. And he
Speaker 1: thought if he he thought Michael Jackson was doing that
Speaker 1: so that he could basically have Jordan to himself, like
Speaker 1: break his home so that he can just come with
Speaker 1: me or whatever. So Evan Chandler gets a lawyer and
Speaker 1: demands to see his son, who he starts to see
Speaker 1: less and less of. And then mj gets his lawyers
Speaker 1: to represent the mom, and they're like these huge bulldog lawyers,
Speaker 1: like huge LA attorneys, And it's like, if this is
Speaker 1: such an innocent relationship, why do you need these huge,
Speaker 1: big gun lawyers involved. And then Jordan's dad eventually told
Speaker 1: the lawyers what he wanted, which was twenty million dollars
Speaker 1: from Jackson, but he said he wanted it in a
Speaker 1: trust for Jordan that only Jordan could use.
Speaker 3: So that makes me sort of feel like the dad
Speaker 3: has good intentions if.
Speaker 1: It's like he wants he thinks his son's being molested,
Speaker 1: he wants he doesn't want to put him through a trial.
Speaker 3: He wants Jackson punished and kept away from him.
Speaker 1: So he's like if I can punish him monetarily, maybe
Speaker 1: he'll stop doing this to other kids, and this money
Speaker 1: will just go towards, you know, Jordan's therapy and college
Speaker 1: and whatever the rest of his life.
Speaker 3: The lawyers refuse this offer.
Speaker 1: Then there was all this custody push and pull with
Speaker 1: him and his wife, and Jordan finally admitted the sexual
Speaker 1: abuse to a psychiatrist that his dad brought him to.
Speaker 3: Who like, because before that he was denying it.
Speaker 1: Obviously he thought he was going to go to juvenile
Speaker 1: hall and that everybody would get in trouble.
Speaker 3: And so his dad brought him to this psychiatrist.
Speaker 1: And he disclosed, and so now the psychiatrist legally has
Speaker 1: to report it. So now it becomes a huge media story.
Speaker 1: That's how it hits the fan. And the dad had
Speaker 1: kept threatened to go public, but the lawyers were like,
Speaker 1: we can work this out, and we're like trying to
Speaker 1: make a deal. But they think that the dad just
Speaker 1: bringing him to the psychiatrist was the dad's way of
Speaker 1: going public without throwing his own press conference, because he
Speaker 1: knew that the psychiatrist would have to like report, So
Speaker 1: Jordan at that point did not want to go back
Speaker 1: to his mom, because he realized that his mom was
Speaker 1: in it for the glam of it all, like all
Speaker 1: the gifts and the jet setting and like, oh, Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson's a closed family friend of mine, you know, And
Speaker 1: Jordan was afraid that she would bring him back to Jackson.
Speaker 1: So when the authorities told June what Jordan said about Jackson,
Speaker 1: there's so many jays, she reportedly broke down and said
Speaker 1: she couldn't believe.
Speaker 3: How stupid she had been. So, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 3: it is pretty stupid.
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's lawyer, Anthony Pelicano, is this bulldog like dirty
Speaker 1: fighting lawyer who actually is also a screenwriter on the side,
Speaker 1: of course, because who isn't in this fucking town. And
Speaker 1: he says, quote, if it's a thirty five year old pedophile,
Speaker 1: then it's obvious why he's sleeping with little boys. But
Speaker 1: if it's Michael Jackson, it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 3: You couldn't say.
Speaker 1: It's strange, it's inappropriate, it's weird. You can use all
Speaker 1: the adjectives you want to.
Speaker 3: But is it criminal no? Is it immoral? No? So
Speaker 3: don't worry.
Speaker 1: Like his lawyer is also a complete like delusional psycho, so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like everybody thinks, oh, this is not a big deal.
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson is a child and never had a childhood,
Speaker 1: and so that's why he is just having these friendly
Speaker 1: sleepovers with it. And I have to admit I before
Speaker 1: I saw it leaving Neverland, I was almost a Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson apologist. I was kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think maybe he just sleeps in bed with these
Speaker 1: kids and is weird, but like doesn't actually touch them.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I really kind of thought I think I was trying
Speaker 1: to like excuse how much I like his music.
Speaker 3: But then after I saw Leaving Neverland, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm sold.
Speaker 2: Well because also, all right, let's take the King of
Speaker 2: Pop part of way to permit if you found out
Speaker 2: a thirty five year old was sleeping in a bed
Speaker 2: with a thirteen year old, you would ever be like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're just sleeping together and they're not touching. It's yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a fucked up thing. Whether there's
Speaker 2: like a boundary cruster, you just why do you go
Speaker 2: to therapy or the King of Pop like you don't
Speaker 2: like you don't bring a little child into your.
Speaker 1: Bad Yeah, so obviously as what happens In this episode
Speaker 1: of SVU, the defense paints the father, Evan, as an extortionist,
Speaker 1: just a jealous father trying to get money. And the
Speaker 1: police do do a raid on Neverland Ranch and Jackson's
Speaker 1: La condo. They find no incriminating evidence. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: got a staff of fifty five people. I'm sure like
Speaker 1: everything's getting washed immediately. I don't think there's stray hairs
Speaker 1: and seamen lying around, you know what I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know what. The only evidence I feel like you
Speaker 1: would find in a situation like this would be photographs
Speaker 1: or video.
Speaker 3: But they didn't find anything.
Speaker 1: And Jordan Chandler did give a police description of Jackson's
Speaker 1: genitals and a strip search was made and the jurors
Speaker 1: felt the description was not a match. Don't have any
Speaker 1: more info on that, but they did use this bit
Speaker 1: in the SVU episode as well. And then in January
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety four, Jackson did settle with the Chandler
Speaker 1: family out of court for reported some of twenty three
Speaker 1: million dollars. So I guess I hope Jordan Chandler is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, finding some kind of peace in his life and.
Speaker 2: Well, because I'm also thinking with Neverland ranch, like I'm
Speaker 2: sure there's hidden doors and basements and like a book
Speaker 2: that you press and it opens something else. And I
Speaker 2: wonder what how warrants work? And do you get how
Speaker 2: the house has made architecture plans? Like how do you
Speaker 2: enter secret passages in.
Speaker 3: A home like that?
Speaker 1: And it also seems like it would take days and
Speaker 1: days and days. It's this massive, sprawling ranch like I
Speaker 1: don't even know.
Speaker 2: Or he can have other buildings not in his name
Speaker 2: where he holds stuff like the amount of resources this
Speaker 2: person has to hide any evidences.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could literally have the evidence floating in a
Speaker 1: helicopter above his house twenty four hours a day, like
Speaker 1: he has so much fucking money.
Speaker 3: But that would be the opposite.
Speaker 2: That would be loud and obvious, that would not hide
Speaker 2: the pedophilia.
Speaker 3: That would be like they'd be back. But can you
Speaker 3: get a warrant for a helicopter, Liza? That's the question.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety four, prosecutors announced that they're not
Speaker 1: filing criminal charges against Jackson involving three different boys because
Speaker 1: quote the primary alleged victim end quote declined to testify,
Speaker 1: which is presumably Jordan, and the state closed its investigation
Speaker 1: in September of nineteen ninety four. At that time, Michael's
Speaker 1: sister LaToya, who was estranged from the family at the time,
Speaker 1: said quote, Michael is my brother. I love him a
Speaker 1: great deal, but I cannot and will not be a
Speaker 1: silent collaborator of his crimes against small, innocent children. If
Speaker 1: I remain silent, then it means I fuel the guilt
Speaker 1: and humiliation these children are feeling, and I think it's
Speaker 1: very wrong and end quote. She claims that she saw
Speaker 1: large checks made out to the families of Michael's alleged victims,
Speaker 1: suggesting he was trying to buy silence. She also said
Speaker 1: that she's a victim of sexual abuse and therefore understood
Speaker 1: these children's pain, and later she recanted this entire statement,
Speaker 1: saying that her abusive husband made her say it for
Speaker 1: money because she was getting money for interviews at the time.
Speaker 3: So who fucking knows what this family?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but I forgot where I was watching this
Speaker 2: or what was happening with LaToya, but they it's it
Speaker 2: reminds me of the episode because of the spin thing
Speaker 2: where they made LaToya be like the crazy one, like
Speaker 2: fuck LaToya. But now decades later, LaToya was the one
Speaker 2: that was speaking the truth. Yeah, there's a reason she
Speaker 2: was like this shunned lunatic and.
Speaker 3: She's Rue Paul's favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is the spin that they do, like,
Speaker 1: oh they're crazy, and it's like okay, well time will tell,
Speaker 1: and she wasn't right right, And around this time, Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson also marries Lisa Marie Presley, daughter of Elvis Presley,
Speaker 1: which was a full publicity stunt to draw attention away
Speaker 1: from the allegations and to make him seem like a
Speaker 1: head of a sexual man that likes.
Speaker 3: Women, and you know, even though he really.
Speaker 1: Had like no relationships with women, much like he had
Speaker 1: been on like four dates in his life with women apparently.
Speaker 1: One was Brooke Shields to an award show. One was
Speaker 1: Madonna to an award show. And these were kind of
Speaker 1: publicity stunts. And it's tough because, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of people conflate being gay with being a pedophile, which
Speaker 1: is completely egregious and disgusting because they're completely two separate things.
Speaker 1: And it's just another example of how insidious these cover
Speaker 1: ups can be because people are just like, oh, look,
Speaker 1: he couldn't be a pedophile. He's with a woman, and
Speaker 1: it's like, no, I think history has taught us that
Speaker 1: that's very untrue.
Speaker 2: But they don't say bad things about it. I mean
Speaker 2: Brooks Shields talks about it like they dated. Maybe the
Speaker 2: contract's still enacted.
Speaker 3: Like yah, yeah, who No, I don't know, but I.
Speaker 2: Remember that kissed with Lisa Marie Presley at the VMA's
Speaker 2: Think or Grammys, and it was hard to watch.
Speaker 1: It was hard to watch for sure, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people thought, Oh, Michael Jackson never had a childhood,
Speaker 1: that's why he loves being a child.
Speaker 3: But a woman.
Speaker 1: So this article I read said a woman who observed
Speaker 1: him closely during the early years disagreed. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that means. Someone who somehow was connected to him said, quote.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to be for Halloween. I'm going
Speaker 2: to be a woman who observed him closely during the
Speaker 2: early years.
Speaker 1: Well, this woman said, quote, he loves childhood because he
Speaker 1: was a child star he loves to remember it.
Speaker 3: Michael is a narcissist in the extreme.
Speaker 1: So there's, you know, different ways you can look at it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he just lives in childhood because that's kind of when
Speaker 1: he stopped maturing. But or it could also be like, no,
Speaker 1: that was the best time of my life and I
Speaker 1: just want to like like relive it constantly.
Speaker 2: Well, Also, the stardom to him was a way to
Speaker 2: escape his abusive father too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was getting love from the public that he
Speaker 1: wasn't getting from his family his father, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also his love was contingent on his stardom.
Speaker 1: I'm sure his father hid him less when he was,
Speaker 1: you know, selling albums and killing it on stage.
Speaker 3: So who knows.
Speaker 1: So the scandal hits about ten years later in two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, right after the infamous Martin Basher documentary
Speaker 1: aired called Living with Michael Jackson, which is what triggered
Speaker 1: the next investigation. Now, I watched this when it came on,
Speaker 1: like the night it came on, and was like completely
Speaker 1: shocked by his behavior.
Speaker 3: Did you watch this?
Speaker 1: No, Oh my gosh, Like it was one of those things.
Speaker 1: It was like two thousand and three. I feel like
Speaker 1: everybody was like it was appointment television, like the Martin
Speaker 1: Bascheer documentary.
Speaker 2: Is that when he went to Vegas and when shopping
Speaker 2: and bought a bunch of like sparkly things.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: And he's like up in a tree with Martin Basher,
Speaker 1: Like they're up in a tree talking like it's like
Speaker 1: you're you're I had never realized before what a child
Speaker 1: he was, like, how he was like a child a
Speaker 1: man child like I just never I don't know.
Speaker 3: I liked the music videos.
Speaker 1: I hadn't watched a ton of interviews, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't really know much about his personal shit. But in uh,
Speaker 1: the documentary like was sketchy and showed other kids and
Speaker 1: stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And so Thomas W.
Speaker 1: Snedd and G who was the District attorney of Santa
Speaker 1: Barbara County who also tried to prosecute Jackson in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three, formally charged Jackson with seven counts of child
Speaker 1: molesting involving a boy who was an overnight guest at
Speaker 1: Neverland Ranch, plus two counts of giving the boy, who
Speaker 1: was a former cancer patient aged fourteen, an intoxicating agent
Speaker 1: before molesting him. Now, in this case, Jackson's lawyer is Lisa.
Speaker 3: Why did I just say, Lisa, we're leaving it in.
Speaker 3: Look here mispronounces things too. How could I call you Lisa, Lisa?
Speaker 3: I'm just talking so much.
Speaker 1: In this case, Jackson's lawyer was Mark Garagos, our guy
Speaker 1: who was at the same time representing Scott Peterson. He
Speaker 1: is simultaneously representing the man accused for the murder of
Speaker 1: the century with the pop star accused with child molestation
Speaker 1: for the second time publicly. And this guy has represented
Speaker 1: so many people, as we've talked about, like Winona Ryder,
Speaker 1: the girl who dumped her baby, Holly Ashcraft. Now I'm
Speaker 1: reading more about this guy. I really want to know
Speaker 1: how that girl could afford this man.
Speaker 2: Well, because he does suffer publicity too, right, yeah, like
Speaker 2: he'll take a case for it. But I don't know
Speaker 2: the Holly Ashcroft that.
Speaker 1: She was the girl who dumped her baby. They think
Speaker 1: twice the Skylar Fisk episode.
Speaker 3: Oh whoa, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he was her lawyer and she was just like
Speaker 1: a girl from Montana who was going to USC So
Speaker 1: I have like no idea how she would have afforded
Speaker 1: like one of the hottest lawyers we go.
Speaker 3: Do you think you would talk to us? Do you
Speaker 3: think we could try to book Mark Arragos? Oh gosh,
Speaker 3: I don't know, And I don't know what he'd be
Speaker 3: able to say. I don't know what he'd be able
Speaker 3: to well.
Speaker 2: I would like to ask him, do you think he
Speaker 2: failed as Scott Peterson's attorney because he was too busy
Speaker 2: doing working on Michael Jackson's well.
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson later fires him because he wants somebody that's
Speaker 1: going to work on him full time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he took on too many cases Scott.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was originally represented by Garagos, but then
Speaker 1: he was fired because he was too busy and he
Speaker 1: wanted the lawyers full attention. So after posting three million
Speaker 1: dollar bail the same day and surrendering his passport, Jackson
Speaker 1: is allowed to go free as he awaits trial, much
Speaker 1: like what happens in the episode. He gets bail, he
Speaker 1: goes home, he keeps partying with kids. So he's charged
Speaker 1: in late two thousand and three and it's not until
Speaker 1: February two thousand and five that he stands trial. The
Speaker 1: victim is identified as Gavin r Viso, a young man
Speaker 1: who appeared in the Basher documentary and testifying on behalf
Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson in the trial are Macaulay Culkin and
Speaker 1: Wade Robeson, who is now by now a famous choreographer
Speaker 1: who's had his own MTV show which I think was
Speaker 1: called The Wade Robeson experiment or experience one of those,
Speaker 1: and he'd choreographed for in Sync and Brittany, and there
Speaker 1: were rumors that Brittany cheated on justin Timberlake with Robesin
Speaker 1: and that that's the subject of crimea River.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever read all that, Lisa.
Speaker 3: Of course I did. Oh, okay, of course you have.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to when I get to shock you
Speaker 1: once in a while, it's fun. So I just did
Speaker 1: find out that it is the Wade Robeson project that
Speaker 1: was his. It was like a choreography MTV reality show
Speaker 1: type thing. So our viso fourteen says on the stand
Speaker 1: that Jackson masturbated him. His brother corroborates the story and
Speaker 1: they say they say that Jackson gave them alcohol and
Speaker 1: showed them pornography. The trial is a circus. It lasts
Speaker 1: four months. There's one hundred and forty witnesses. At one point,
Speaker 1: Jackson shows up late in pajamas at some point.
Speaker 3: And then this is going.
Speaker 1: To what you were talking about when you were like,
Speaker 1: why are we following the woman about two hundred dollars
Speaker 1: of shoplifting.
Speaker 3: They were trying to get Gavin's mother too.
Speaker 1: She was apparently a little bit erratic on the stand
Speaker 1: and snapped her fingers at the jury at one point,
Speaker 1: and she was eventually Now that she's in the limelight,
Speaker 1: she gets busted for welfare fraud, where she's getting like
Speaker 1: something like eight thousand dollars in welfare fraud. I don't
Speaker 1: know what that has to do, Like that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that your son is well.
Speaker 2: Welfare fraud is close more closely related, because if you're
Speaker 2: a con artist frauding the government of money, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you fraud Michael Jackson with money?
Speaker 3: Right? I think that's different than stealing clothes, But but
Speaker 3: I think stealing much. She chose a desperation for money,
Speaker 3: got it.
Speaker 1: I guess you know, like you need money, so you
Speaker 1: would do anything, including like having your granddaughter who's sick
Speaker 1: memorize information about a pedophile. Anyway, the mom looked bad, apparently,
Speaker 1: and that's what a lot of people said, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people blamed on the jury were like, what
Speaker 1: mother would let a kid sleep in bed with a
Speaker 1: grown man, And it's like, okay, yes, that's wrong, but
Speaker 1: also he did commit these crimes, so the mother did
Speaker 1: get a lot of blame and in two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson was acquitted.
Speaker 3: Of all charges so terrible.
Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and nine, Michael Jackson dies
Speaker 1: famously doctor Conrad Murray the propofall of it all. And
Speaker 1: then in twenty thirteen, after twenty years of publicly defending
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Wade Robeson tells The Daily Beast that he
Speaker 1: was actually molested by Michael Jackson for seven years, starting
Speaker 1: at age seven. And then two years later, in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: a judge in Los Angeles Superior County Court dismisses robesons
Speaker 1: suit against these states, saying he waited too long to
Speaker 1: file his claim. In twenty seventeen, that sane judge dismisses
Speaker 1: the rest of Robeson's suit filed against Michael's two companies,
Speaker 1: saying that the two companies can't be held liable for
Speaker 1: Jackson's behavior. And none of these judgments address whether Robeson's
Speaker 1: accusations are credible or not. They just say you waited
Speaker 1: too long and these companies can't be held responsible.
Speaker 2: I'm also wondering if, since he testified on behalf of
Speaker 2: Jackson back in the day, if that counts as like perjury.
Speaker 1: Yes, they were like did you perjure yourself back then
Speaker 1: or are you perjuring yourself now? Essentially there was a
Speaker 1: lot of one like you know, back and forth about that.
Speaker 1: And then James safe Chuck, who I mentioned at the
Speaker 1: beginning who went on tour with Michael in the eighties,
Speaker 1: files a similar suit against MJJ Productions in MJJ Ventures
Speaker 1: his two companies in twenty fourteen, alleging that Jackson abused
Speaker 1: him on quote, hundreds of occasions between nineteen eighty eight
Speaker 1: and nineteen ninety two, and the same judge, it's the
Speaker 1: same exact judge as in Robeson's case. He rejects safe
Speaker 1: Chuck's suit in twenty seventeen on the same grounds that
Speaker 1: they gave robesin like you waited too long and these
Speaker 1: companies are not liable for his behavior. So then in
Speaker 1: March of March third, twenty nineteen, the two part four
Speaker 1: hour documentary Leaving Neverland begins airing on HBO. Michael Jackson's
Speaker 1: estate is obviously fuming about this, and they claim that
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. When HBO released his nineteen ninety two Live
Speaker 1: in Bucharest colon The Dangerous Tour concert when they release that,
Speaker 1: they agreed to a contract with Jackson saying that they
Speaker 1: would say nothing disparaging about him. And so essentially what's
Speaker 1: happening is the estate is claiming that that contract is
Speaker 1: still in effect. So now even though it's god ninety
Speaker 1: two to it's like almost twenty years later, they're trying
Speaker 1: to say, you're still not allowed to disparage him, and
Speaker 1: this documentary that you're releasing is disparaging him, even it's posthumous.
Speaker 1: So what they do is they actually his estate releases
Speaker 1: that concert on YouTube as and it's on the same
Speaker 1: night that the documentary premieres as an attempt at counter programming,
Speaker 1: I guess, and they sue HBO for one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 1: And in the latest update that I found from like
Speaker 1: the end of twenty twenty one, they're winning against HBO,
Speaker 1: but HBO can appeal again, So we'll see what happens
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: If they fucking gacker HBO, I will I will go
Speaker 2: after Michael Jackson's sting.
Speaker 1: They cannot bankrupt HBO. Do you think one hundred million
Speaker 1: would bankrupt HBO? I mean, I think it would be
Speaker 1: a hit, but I don't know if it would bankrupt.
Speaker 1: You're right, You're totally right, and maybe it will go down.
Speaker 1: Maybe it will be like an agreement that's like fifty million,
Speaker 1: you know, who.
Speaker 3: Knows, but yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1: And like you you think leaving I thought, and Leaving
Speaker 1: Neverland was this huge bombshell.
Speaker 3: There was all this information in it.
Speaker 1: So let me describe what Leaving Neverland is in case
Speaker 1: you haven't watched it. It's James Safechuck and Wade Robeson
Speaker 1: telling their stories. These are guys who defended Jackson for
Speaker 1: years on various different occasions and now came through and said,
Speaker 1: you know, after years of therapy and kind of processing.
Speaker 3: And they talk about.
Speaker 1: It really in an interesting way in the documentary where
Speaker 1: they're kind of like we were in love, like we
Speaker 1: loved him, you know, yes, he like then he started
Speaker 1: to do these things with us, but like we didn't
Speaker 1: know and it was a very loving relationship. And you know,
Speaker 1: he was promising, at least Wade, he was promising him.
Speaker 3: He lived in Australia at the time.
Speaker 1: He's going to bring him to America, let him blow
Speaker 1: up here, put him in music videos, all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And these kids were like, could not believe that the
Speaker 1: biggest star in the world was paying them this attention,
Speaker 1: like they felt so special and like loved, and then
Speaker 1: I think didn't know how to process the abuse at
Speaker 1: their young ages, and then you know, as adults they
Speaker 1: have started to And that's what the point of this
Speaker 1: doc is. And it just has a lot more like
Speaker 1: information about like I don't know, not that there's a
Speaker 1: difference in these in the different like levels of abuse
Speaker 1: or anything, but it's like Wade Robeson talks about like
Speaker 1: being anally undertreated and like horrible stuff where it's like
Speaker 1: he has pain and you know, it's just like it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like it just seems like it's another level
Speaker 1: of abuse.
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 1: And of course I'm talking about in terms of physical trauma,
Speaker 1: not psychological. Psychological damage is obviously very nuanced and deep
Speaker 1: in all of these cases with him. So you'd think
Speaker 1: that this was all gonna ruin Michael Jackson's legacy, but
Speaker 1: his album sales increased following the documentary, Like.
Speaker 3: I think the same thing happened with r Kelly.
Speaker 1: People are sick, but like you know, his his album
Speaker 1: sales increase. Louis Vauton ended a collaboration with Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: like his imagery, and I think he lost some kind
Speaker 1: of corporate stuff after this came out, but you know,
Speaker 1: he still has.
Speaker 3: A very an estate that's very, very wealthy.
Speaker 1: So in Leaving Neverland, as I said, both of the
Speaker 1: boys describe loving Jackson while and enduring the abuse. They
Speaker 1: give graphic description of masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, which
Speaker 1: they claim took place at Neverland Ranch and other locations.
Speaker 1: Robeson and Safechuck claimed that these acts with Michael were
Speaker 1: regarded as romantic and that they did not realize that
Speaker 1: they were inappropriate until adulthood. And Jackson even took safe
Speaker 1: Chuck one time shopping for an engagement ring, and in
Speaker 1: the documentary he still has it and he's like kept
Speaker 1: it in a box. So it's complicated the ties that
Speaker 1: these guys have to Michael Jackson. And robes And said
Speaker 1: Jackson told him to distrust women, and both men claimed
Speaker 1: that Jackson tried pushing them away from their families and
Speaker 1: quote unquote brainwashing them. So Jackson allegedly sent these boys
Speaker 1: love letters, so it was definitely a grooming thing, but
Speaker 1: it also seemed like a courtship almost in his mind,
Speaker 1: like he seemed to only focus on one boy at
Speaker 1: a time, so even though, but who knows, I mean,
Speaker 1: we really don't know when he's having these parties with
Speaker 1: multiple boys sleeping over what's happening. Yeah, Like the they
Speaker 1: confirmed that there were systems set up at Neverland to
Speaker 1: prevent other people from witnessing these sexual acts, so that
Speaker 1: these guys got their word out in uh, Leaving Neverland.
Speaker 1: But I keep wanting to say finding Neverland, which is
Speaker 1: like a cure, a nightly movie I think. Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people just thought Wade Robeson's career was
Speaker 1: on the fritz and that's why he came out with
Speaker 1: all this and that it's all bullshit, And I.
Speaker 3: Want to you know what I want.
Speaker 2: I would love the people that say that to give
Speaker 2: me one example of someone who lied about being raped
Speaker 2: and then had a great career, Yeah, or did get raped,
Speaker 2: came forward and every went you know what, let's give
Speaker 2: this bitch a show. I'd love to give one example
Speaker 2: of someone's life who's turned better after coming forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's just when you're watching it, there's just
Speaker 1: like a there's just I believe them, Like when I'm
Speaker 1: watching them, I just believe them, like they have the
Speaker 1: details they have, like the emotional gravitas, like it's just
Speaker 1: it's all there, like you totally believe them when you're watching.
Speaker 1: And I think that was like what you talk about
Speaker 1: I when I admit with my tail between my legs
Speaker 1: that I was a Michael Jackson apologist for years. I
Speaker 1: think it's because I never heard a child's voice or
Speaker 1: an adult's voice saying what happened. And then seeing this
Speaker 1: documentary where you see people saying this happened to me,
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I can't How could I have ever
Speaker 1: thought that?
Speaker 3: You know, it really changes your mind.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really shocking how many people, because you know,
Speaker 2: we cover so many crimes where it's like, yeah, there
Speaker 2: was evidence the doctor did it and no one believed it.
Speaker 2: Like people don't believe any of this all the time.
Speaker 2: But it's like, are you fucking dune? Like why aren't
Speaker 2: you concerned a grown man wants to sleep with children?
Speaker 2: Why aren't you concerned about the lead like the lawsuits
Speaker 2: and the settling out of court and so so much
Speaker 2: litigious shit, like why does nothing but.
Speaker 3: A red flag in your face? Like head even if
Speaker 3: you still are like I don't care.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe, but like to completely disregard all of this
Speaker 1: seems like willfully ignorant. It's just the amount of money
Speaker 1: and the amount of celebrity he had, like just a
Speaker 1: lawyer trying to spin it with like, look, I get
Speaker 1: how this would seem wrong if it was a pedophile,
Speaker 1: but it's Michael Jackson, Like it's it's like I don't
Speaker 1: think it's like you said, like I don't even know
Speaker 1: if we have celebrities that are like at this level.
Speaker 1: I mean we do, but they're women, to be honest,
Speaker 1: like Beyonce, Rihanna Gaga, Like, we don't have like a
Speaker 1: celebrity who's at this level where they can just hide
Speaker 1: all this shit or people just overlook it because they're
Speaker 1: they're mesmerized by the fame.
Speaker 3: Like truth.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and like I understand why these kids were
Speaker 2: like holy shit, like yeah, I'll do yeah, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Like we talk about how priests, teachers, doctor, like all
Speaker 2: just regular professions have such impact on children and like
Speaker 2: who they're taught to respect and listen to. And then
Speaker 2: you have the most famous talented man alive on the
Speaker 2: planet wanting choosing you.
Speaker 3: They go into this and leaving Neverland.
Speaker 1: I mean, Wade's mother speaks, his sister speaks, his brother, like,
Speaker 1: you know, he estranged them from their father. Like it's
Speaker 1: like he did a lot of diabolical shit to like
Speaker 1: brainwash and groom these kids. And the mom doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like a bad mom in the docks, She's like she
Speaker 1: says that Michael wanted to leave Wade, wanted her to
Speaker 1: leave Wade with him for a year, and she goes, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. He's my kid, He's
Speaker 1: seven years old. Why would I do that? And Michael goes,
Speaker 1: I always get what I want. And I think they
Speaker 1: figured out. He figured out a way to keep them
Speaker 1: both there, like you stay here too, like and so
Speaker 1: the family all stayed. But it's like, yeah, he just
Speaker 1: was powerful in all the ways. And do we and
Speaker 1: evil is what I'm learning today. I think, I really
Speaker 1: I always I sadly. When I was younger, I said,
Speaker 1: I bet he molested the kids, but I don't care.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's what I was saying.
Speaker 3: If I was like.
Speaker 2: Thinking of high school aged me, like I bet that
Speaker 2: would be my vibe.
Speaker 1: Well, and people were saying he did it because he
Speaker 1: had a hard childhood, or he was probably molested.
Speaker 3: You know, there's excuses all over the place.
Speaker 2: But what I'm learning today is the evil, like the evil, predator,
Speaker 2: predatory nature of him that I think I ignored of, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: he planned this very well. Any updates for Macaulay Culkin,
Speaker 2: Like has he spoken up as an adult?
Speaker 1: He broke his silence apparently around February of twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit after the doc came out,
Speaker 1: and said, and this was in an article that I
Speaker 1: found in the Mirror. Look, I never saw him abuse anyone,
Speaker 1: and he never abused me, he says, especially at this
Speaker 1: flashpoint in time, I'd have no reason to hold anything back.
Speaker 1: If anything, I'm not going to say it would be
Speaker 1: stylish or anything like that, but right now is a
Speaker 1: good time to speak up. And if I had something
Speaker 1: to speak up about, I would totally do it. But no,
Speaker 1: I never saw anything, He never did anything. Part of
Speaker 1: me thought mcaulay Culkin might have too much agency, Like
Speaker 1: he is a child star himself, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like he like that might have been somebody that was
Speaker 1: too public for him, Like none of the other boys
Speaker 1: were super public. You know, they went around with him
Speaker 1: in public, but they weren't famous in their own right,
Speaker 1: you know, so maybe he just thought that's too dangerous
Speaker 1: for me to try to do anything with Macaulay culkin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm happy McCully culan was not molested by
Speaker 2: my art, you know, of course, I'm glad for that update.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I'm going to watch the
Speaker 2: doc but this is it's definitely. Yeah, what a calculating,
Speaker 2: fucking criminal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean hopefully we don't let this kind
Speaker 1: of thing ever happen in the future. Like I don't
Speaker 1: know hopefully if there's ever, but you know, history repeats
Speaker 1: itself all the damn time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I can't think of a celebrity that's just like traveling
Speaker 2: around with kids, and we know that kids sleep over
Speaker 2: at their house. But definitely the molesting of it all
Speaker 2: and abusing is happening, you know. I mean R Kelly
Speaker 2: should be in prison, Chris Brown should be in prison,
Speaker 2: t I should be in prison.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Roman Plansky's up to no good again. There's like
Speaker 2: a fourth VICTI like he was in the recently raped
Speaker 2: another young girl.
Speaker 3: I mean, whatever, let's get to our guest.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty momentous occasion for Kara and I today.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're really excited about today's guests, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1: This week's guest has appeared on so many iconic shows,
Speaker 1: The Sopranos, Law and Order, Original Recipe, House of Cards,
Speaker 1: and she recently appeared on Dash and Lily.
Speaker 3: This woman is working and booked.
Speaker 1: We love her and you guys know her very well
Speaker 1: from her multiple episodes on SVU as defense attorney Cleoconrad.
Speaker 3: Guys are thrilling chat with Jill Marie Lawrence.
Speaker 1: We cannot believe we are with the Cleo Conrad.
Speaker 6: This is.
Speaker 3: A very huge day.
Speaker 2: You're our first defense attorney we've ever had on the podcast.
Speaker 5: So welcome, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I would be calling you if I
Speaker 1: did it, if I committed the murder, I'd be calling you.
Speaker 3: Not that I've done anything, but just you know, in
Speaker 3: the event.
Speaker 2: How much do you think Cleo Konrad charged for her services?
Speaker 5: Probably four hundred and twenty dollars an hour?
Speaker 3: Okay, okay for twenty an hour? Love thaty? Is this
Speaker 3: a clue that she's a pothead? Not quite?
Speaker 5: Not quite?
Speaker 1: Love it, So obviously we want to talk to you
Speaker 1: about like your whole tenure on the show, because you've
Speaker 1: been on a ton of episodes. But this specific episode
Speaker 1: today that your interview is a part of is Sick,
Speaker 1: which is you know, it's commonly referred to as the
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson episode.
Speaker 3: And I was wondering, like when you were on set
Speaker 3: doing it.
Speaker 1: Where people kind of like, oh, yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson episode, Like would people talk about it when
Speaker 1: it was based on something real like that?
Speaker 6: You know, I didn't hear banter or talk about so
Speaker 6: much as Michael Jackson. But you know, I was telling
Speaker 6: an Alisa yesterday that I was having a hard time
Speaker 6: trying to I did so many episodes, so I forgot
Speaker 6: exactly what Sick was about. But when I saw it
Speaker 6: again early early, early, early this morning, that episode was
Speaker 6: appropriately titled. It definitely was. So there was something so
Speaker 6: so twisted and sick about it. Yeah, what what actually
Speaker 6: went down with? You know, the adults involved, particularly Grandma.
Speaker 6: I loved working with the.
Speaker 3: Actress Cindy Williams from Laverna.
Speaker 6: Surely, Yeah, I was so delighted to work with her.
Speaker 6: But she was so that that character she portrayed was
Speaker 6: so sick.
Speaker 3: It was so much twisted.
Speaker 6: It was so twisted, you know, unlike what I what
Speaker 6: we have the world, you know, had seen previously on
Speaker 6: lavernessh Early. So I mean, I'm always I was when
Speaker 6: I was on that show. I was on that show
Speaker 6: nine seasons. That's you know, that's a long time, you know, recurring, recurring.
Speaker 6: But I was always defending some pedophile or some freak
Speaker 6: of some kind.
Speaker 1: Yes, you represented like a murdering child, like a bunch
Speaker 1: of rich kids who won't stop drinking, like all these
Speaker 1: like a guy who was inseminating his own daughter.
Speaker 3: I mean, you had a lot of really.
Speaker 1: Crazy clients, That's what I'm saying. I feel like I
Speaker 1: would hire you if I did something wrong, because like
Speaker 1: you'll take the case, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I mean really from the Yeah, all kinds,
Speaker 6: all kinds, from the router to the tutors, as my
Speaker 6: grandmother would say, from the router to the tutor, all kinds,
Speaker 6: all yeah, all kinds. Well, you know what, when you're litigating,
Speaker 6: you know, the first thirty minutes of the show is
Speaker 6: always detective, we're probing, and then the last thirty minutes
Speaker 6: is always litigating court scenes, interrogation rooms, if you're if
Speaker 6: you're you know, an attorney, you you really need to
Speaker 6: know what you're talking about, what you're defending. And I
Speaker 6: had no idea that I had to take on so
Speaker 6: much medical lingo jargon and like modochondrial DNA or Munchausen
Speaker 6: or familiar familiar DNA.
Speaker 3: And it's so relevant.
Speaker 6: It's so relevant in all of the cases that you
Speaker 6: see on television today, in the media, in the news,
Speaker 6: how people are nailed, how people are found guilty, how
Speaker 6: some people are vindicated. So it was a big learning
Speaker 6: curve for me, not only as an actress, but just
Speaker 6: understanding the dynamics of how the judicial system moves and
Speaker 6: you know, what terms they make and how they have
Speaker 6: to you know, really go into defending somebody.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting because I didn't even think about the
Speaker 1: medical stuff.
Speaker 3: But you do have to know a lot of that.
Speaker 1: Because I was going to ask you, how was learning
Speaker 1: all of the legal jargon, but you probably had to
Speaker 1: learn a bunch of legal stuff and bunch of you know,
Speaker 1: medical stuff too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because it has to make sense, you know, when
Speaker 6: you're when you're trying to fight tooth and nail or
Speaker 6: trying to.
Speaker 3: You're litigating.
Speaker 6: You have to pose your argument, and you got to
Speaker 6: make it make sense, and you gotta believe or make
Speaker 6: them believe what you're saying and what you're talking about.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's it's you know, that's how I learned
Speaker 6: so much about medical terms. I mean, it's been a while,
Speaker 6: so I can't say I retained everything. But when I
Speaker 6: see some, when I see some, when I watch some
Speaker 6: of hey, listen, ladies, when I watch some of the marathons,
Speaker 6: you know, it comes back at you. It comes, it
Speaker 6: comes back to you.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, so you watched Sick this morning to prep but
Speaker 2: are there because you are in some of the more heinous,
Speaker 2: wild episodes. Are there any that have stuck with you
Speaker 2: all of these years that you're like, oh, that one
Speaker 2: was rough?
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of one. One episode was uh rooftop.
Speaker 6: That one was about a bunch of rapes taking place
Speaker 6: on the rooftop of buildings. And every once in a
Speaker 6: while I run into the actor that I defended in
Speaker 6: that episode, and that was a pretty That was a
Speaker 6: pretty hot episode.
Speaker 2: The other one you were in that is really rough
Speaker 2: as Burned, the one with Blair Underwood.
Speaker 1: That was the one where he assaulted his wife and
Speaker 1: then there was all this back and forth. Yeah, she said,
Speaker 1: and then he covered her in lighter fluid and set
Speaker 1: her on bire That's.
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And Blair's so sweet, he's such a nice guy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that would do something doing something so horrible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but some of the guests, Yeah.
Speaker 6: Some of the guest stars when they would come on,
Speaker 6: and I guess it would be a golden opportunity for
Speaker 6: them to kind of sink their teeth into something so
Speaker 6: gory and kind of grimy, because they're like like Cindy
Speaker 6: Williams and Blair Underwood. You see them, and you have
Speaker 6: seen them previously in a in a different light. But
Speaker 6: then when you come on to the show Law and Order,
Speaker 6: and Law and Order, I don't know if you aesthetically
Speaker 6: picked up on it, but even the lighting is kind
Speaker 6: of dungeony, you know, with that show, because they just
Speaker 6: want to make sure that you know, it's not a
Speaker 6: it's not a glamour and you know, glitzy show. It's
Speaker 6: it's a show that's kind of very guttural and very
Speaker 6: grimy almost with this with the cases and the topic
Speaker 6: and the subject matters, and they just really want to
Speaker 6: stay focused on the storyline at hand, and it's not
Speaker 6: about you know, it's not about glamour.
Speaker 3: It's not you know, not trying to be Stolin. You're
Speaker 3: not trying to stylin profile on that show, you know.
Speaker 2: But your character addressed well, she put some looks together
Speaker 2: in the courtroom.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know, and they were they were kind
Speaker 5: of gracious.
Speaker 6: They were gracious with me about about you know, it
Speaker 6: was it was a great It was a great family
Speaker 6: to work with. And you know what, that's what I
Speaker 6: felt like I was coming on board with was a
Speaker 6: family because they treated you as such, you know, and
Speaker 6: that was that was a lot of fun. They let
Speaker 6: me also do funky things with my hair too, and
Speaker 6: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you about that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: they let me give it fun. You have like a
Speaker 3: different cool style every season. And I was going to ask.
Speaker 1: You, like, was that all you like or was hair
Speaker 1: and makeup involved or were you just like, no, this
Speaker 1: is what I'm doing these days, you know what.
Speaker 6: Hair and makeup was involved, more makeup, but my hair
Speaker 6: I changed it up and they they went with it.
Speaker 6: They one year, I think I had a buzz cut.
Speaker 6: The Sick episode is the one that I had the
Speaker 6: buzz cut with, and I was a little paranoid about
Speaker 6: it because I thought that my barber had cut too
Speaker 6: much off.
Speaker 3: But they let me. Yes, they let me.
Speaker 5: Kind of run the gamut with my hair, and that
Speaker 5: was That was fun.
Speaker 3: That was fun.
Speaker 1: That's really nice because we heard from we heard from
Speaker 1: Diane Neial that they like, you know, made her wear
Speaker 1: wigs and like dye her hair and do all this
Speaker 1: other stuff.
Speaker 3: So that's cool that they were letting you. That's interesting.
Speaker 6: Do you yeah, that's interesting. I Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 5: I didn't. Well, the times I worked with her, that
Speaker 5: was I. I don't think she had on anyone.
Speaker 3: I think it was her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was her earlier seasons that she
Speaker 1: wore a wig a little bit right or and then
Speaker 1: later she like or she because she was telling us
Speaker 1: she had like very tight braids on under the wig
Speaker 1: that were like making her brain break.
Speaker 3: But I wanted to ask you a quick question.
Speaker 1: This is specific to the Sick episode, but it's also
Speaker 1: something you do in other episodes in all these scenes
Speaker 1: where like you whisper something to your client, like because
Speaker 1: you whisper something to Cindy when you guys kind of
Speaker 1: realize that she's got got and you do that in
Speaker 1: a couple of other courtroom scenes.
Speaker 3: Because I watched all your episodes recently, are you ever
Speaker 3: saying anything real as an actor? Are you saying anything real?
Speaker 1: Or are you just going like what do you know
Speaker 1: when you're whispering aesthetically?
Speaker 6: I'm just we're just going with the moment of what's
Speaker 6: integral to what's happening. And you know that particular scene
Speaker 6: with her, she you know, she dropped the bombshells. She well,
Speaker 6: she basically was caught, she was busted by what Diane
Speaker 6: Neil said to her. So it just only seemed, you know,
Speaker 6: it was a seamless transition moment to just lean over
Speaker 6: to her and say, listen, I think we need to
Speaker 6: cut a deal here, because yeah, you know, you know, you've.
Speaker 3: Just been busted, my dear, You've just been busting you know.
Speaker 6: So at times, you know, they allow us to go
Speaker 6: into that moment because it's just it seems only logical
Speaker 6: when you know, if the person the purp has done
Speaker 6: something and they've been busted, it's like, well, okay, well
Speaker 6: at this.
Speaker 3: Point, we need to go into negotiating something here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's yes, that that usually kind of just worked.
Speaker 3: It works its way in that moment in Yeah.
Speaker 2: Who were the people where when you saw the script
Speaker 2: and you saw who was coming in or what judge
Speaker 2: it was, or which detectives you were working with, that
Speaker 2: you were like, Oh, tonight's going to be a great day,
Speaker 2: or oh, I can't wait to work with this person.
Speaker 2: Any any particular people you enjoyed working with.
Speaker 6: Well, every every episode was always exciting in some way,
Speaker 6: shape or form. I will say that I have worked
Speaker 6: with a few legends. One of one was I think
Speaker 6: my last episode, my last episode with them was with
Speaker 6: Jerry Lewis, And yeah, Jerry Lewis is goofy and funny
Speaker 6: episode he was.
Speaker 5: He was so so much fun to work with.
Speaker 6: And at one point I want to say that Jerry
Speaker 6: Lewis was probably I want to say he was in
Speaker 6: his mid to late seventies. He was in his mid
Speaker 6: to late seventies in that particular episode, and you know,
Speaker 6: he kept experiencing a hiccup with one particular speech, and
Speaker 6: sometimes that happens as an actor, you know, you're trying
Speaker 6: to establish a flow with your delivery, and he kept
Speaker 6: experiencing hiccups and I think I think even memory was
Speaker 6: maybe even an issue.
Speaker 3: So they said, well, let's pause, and we took maybe.
Speaker 6: About a I want to say we took about a
Speaker 6: sixteen seven maybe twenty minute break and we came back
Speaker 6: and he was sharp as a blade, on point with everything,
Speaker 6: and it was it was kind of like a lengthy speech,
Speaker 6: but you could tell that he had been you know,
Speaker 6: he had been at this game for quite a long time.
Speaker 6: And I think, you know sometimes that the actor, we
Speaker 6: have to work through what we're saying.
Speaker 3: And that's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you got to defend a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of celebs like Titus Welliver, Estella, Warren Britney, snow Blair,
Speaker 1: underwo who we mentioned, Erica Christiansen. You'd had a lot
Speaker 1: of get you got a lot of face time with
Speaker 1: the celebs.
Speaker 6: You are absolutely right. There's so many that I that
Speaker 6: I did work with Titus. Wow, Titus has come a
Speaker 6: long way too.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Karen's a big fan of Titus.
Speaker 5: I like, oh Titus is He's like.
Speaker 3: The real deal.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, and he uh that episode. He's also goofy
Speaker 6: and funny too. He's a lot of fun. He's he's
Speaker 6: as good to know. Like when I when I've walked
Speaker 6: up on the set and I saw Titus, I said, oh,
Speaker 6: this is the tightest okay, we're gonna have We're gonna
Speaker 6: have fun with this episode.
Speaker 5: Because he's a lot of fun and I wish him
Speaker 5: so much. I wish him.
Speaker 2: Well, well, I'm wondering, how do people stop you on
Speaker 2: the street.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I have been stopped on the street at a
Speaker 6: time or two. I've even been stopped on the street
Speaker 6: when I didn't even have on my war paint and.
Speaker 3: They walked and they recognized him, and I was like, wow.
Speaker 6: I was down in the village one day, me and
Speaker 6: my sister, we were hanging out and I didn't have
Speaker 6: any war paint on that day, and oh, I know,
Speaker 6: I know who you are.
Speaker 3: I know who you are.
Speaker 6: I want your autograph, but I'm like, I'm not, I'm
Speaker 6: not like one of the famous ones. I still don't
Speaker 6: want your autograph.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: So that happens, Yeah, that happens. That's so funny. Yeah,
Speaker 6: But my time there was wonderful. It was really great,
Speaker 6: and I learned so much. I learned a great deal.
Speaker 1: You had to go up against the DA the eighty
Speaker 1: as a lot. So like a lot of your episodes,
Speaker 1: you're either going up against Cabot or Novak.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I went up against them, uh quite a bit,
Speaker 6: and both the sharp actresses, and I learned a great
Speaker 6: deal from working with both of them. They were very giving,
Speaker 6: very very you know when I got when I first
Speaker 6: got there.
Speaker 5: They embraced me and they were very very giving actors.
Speaker 5: And that was fun.
Speaker 6: Even if you would go up against them, it was
Speaker 6: it was fun working with them in that fashion.
Speaker 3: It was fun.
Speaker 2: What are there things did you learn? You mentioned you
Speaker 2: learned a lot with your time there.
Speaker 6: Well, I learned how you got to be on point
Speaker 6: when the writing changes. Sometimes the writing can change within
Speaker 6: a rehearsal, you know, because I was fresh out of
Speaker 6: school when I when I got on board with them,
Speaker 6: and I learned a lot more with the medium of
Speaker 6: film and TV because I was I'm conservatory trained, and
Speaker 6: you know, we certainly focused on the craft of acting.
Speaker 6: But when you get actually on the set week to week,
Speaker 6: month to month, you couldn't go to any university or
Speaker 6: any conservatory training program and get the kind of experience
Speaker 6: that you have when you get right there on the set.
Speaker 6: So I learned a lot about the legal and judicial system.
Speaker 6: I learned a lot about, as I said earlier, medical terms,
Speaker 6: medical jargon. I learned a lot about even media, how
Speaker 6: cases are presented, how the news and the media can
Speaker 6: really highlight something that is very disturbing. I learned a
Speaker 6: lot from various different avenues so much. And nine years
Speaker 6: is as I said, nine seasons, that's a long time.
Speaker 6: I cultivated some relationships of working with people, and I
Speaker 6: think the biggest takeaway for me was learning the mechanics
Speaker 6: of the judicial system.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I learned a lot about that from SVU, yeah sad,
Speaker 1: from watching you guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you started out on the show like really pretty early.
Speaker 1: I mean season three, you start out as Cleoconrad, and
Speaker 1: then you're on there through season nine, so kind of
Speaker 1: as the show is gaining in its popularity, did you
Speaker 1: notice anything like different like change as you would come
Speaker 1: back to set, like season overseason, like any differences from
Speaker 1: like three to nine.
Speaker 6: The show definitely was picking up momentum. I would probably
Speaker 6: say that the one main thing I definitely noticed was
Speaker 6: how they decided to extract so much from real newsworthy
Speaker 6: things that I think that really grew over time.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 6: I think that's what's made the Law and Order as franchise,
Speaker 6: you know, last as long as it has is because
Speaker 6: most of these stories, if not all, are really extracted
Speaker 6: from real news stories, and I think that's what keeps
Speaker 6: it so relevant. And I don't think it was like
Speaker 6: that at the very beginning. I think as time went
Speaker 6: on and as they grew, because everybody grew, everybody grew, everybody.
Speaker 3: Blossomed, even the producers.
Speaker 6: They had their own discoveries in the process of producing.
Speaker 6: And I think over time that how it became as
Speaker 6: successful as it has been.
Speaker 2: Speaking of producers, Neil Bar has been a returned guest
Speaker 2: on our podcast. Did you get to work with Neil
Speaker 2: bar and enjoy him as much as we do?
Speaker 3: I did? I learned so much.
Speaker 6: I really did. I learned so much. I consider myself
Speaker 6: one of the lucky ones. I've even had dignitaries come
Speaker 6: to me and say, well, God rest his soul.
Speaker 3: He has passed on.
Speaker 5: But David Dinkins, who was once the Mayor of New
Speaker 5: York City, he said one of his career aspirations and
Speaker 5: dreams was to come on the show and be a judge.
Speaker 6: I said, really, He said yeah, yeah. I mean many
Speaker 6: many people would be enchanted and take the light in
Speaker 6: that opportunity, and I'm just so glad I did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you were to come back to SVU, like
Speaker 1: season twenty four twenty five, would you want to reprise
Speaker 1: your role as Cleoconrad or would you want to come
Speaker 1: back as somebody different?
Speaker 3: I would?
Speaker 6: You know what I would take delight in in in
Speaker 6: the invite period.
Speaker 5: It's a it's a great it's a great show to
Speaker 5: be a part of.
Speaker 6: And I would I would embrace Uh, I would embrace it. Surely,
Speaker 6: I certainly would embrace it. It's they're a family, and
Speaker 6: they were they were great. They were good to me.
Speaker 6: I love them. The pieces and doing doing Cleo Conrad
Speaker 6: or or something there other. You know, I'm an actor,
Speaker 6: so I'm I'm required to do whatever, you know, I'm
Speaker 6: asked to do.
Speaker 5: I tell people I do everything but porn.
Speaker 3: Pretty much.
Speaker 6: You know, that's pretty that's pretty much my situation, you know.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I let me take delight in that. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Do you have any projects coming up that you want
Speaker 1: our audience to sort of look out for or I
Speaker 1: know it's been a rough pandemic.
Speaker 6: I just want the audience to be on the lookout
Speaker 6: for me in general period. I don't have any he set.
Speaker 6: I do not have any set project, you know what.
Speaker 6: The last year and a half, Ladies has been busy
Speaker 6: with Vos voiceovers, animation gigs.
Speaker 3: But I'm ready.
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm ready to you know, take on the
Speaker 6: next project. I'm certainly looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: But look to see me.
Speaker 1: We will be looking out. We will be looking out
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: That was incredible.
Speaker 2: It's always just a level of excitement when we get
Speaker 2: a cast member that like can't be replicated or anything
Speaker 2: like that. It's just like beyond to have someone that's
Speaker 2: and remembers and has so many good stories. I mean,
Speaker 2: that was like a thrill of a lifetime. We've been
Speaker 2: wanting to get her on for a while.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I was so happy she's at the time,
Speaker 1: and just you can tell like that she trained it
Speaker 1: a conservatory, like she has so much like gravitas when
Speaker 1: she talks on the show, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like I just sat down with like a group of
Speaker 2: people and I was like, oh, what have you guys
Speaker 2: been talking about they got a bar and they were like.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're talking about the douche ist schools.
Speaker 2: And I went, oh, like colleges, and then I went, well, Duke, duh,
Speaker 2: And then everyone started laughing. There was someone from the
Speaker 2: Duke Business School. But like you must know, it's the
Speaker 2: number one. That's the number one douche that comes to
Speaker 2: my head.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, what about you?
Speaker 1: I mean I went to a douche school, so it's
Speaker 1: kind of tough. Like I one of the summerhouse guys
Speaker 1: went to my college. Tucker Carlson went to my college.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of douches went to my college.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: But like I would say, you can't talk to somebody
Speaker 1: from Harvard without them letting you know within three minutes
Speaker 1: that they went to Harvard, you know. But I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're talking about like more bro douche culture, I
Speaker 1: don't know Duke is a good one. I mean I
Speaker 1: think of Northeastern schools like more that comes to mind
Speaker 1: more quickly, but like or I guess like University of
Speaker 1: Boulder or whatever, like yeah, like there's some like of
Speaker 1: these or like Arizona I think is probably pretty douchey,
Speaker 1: like University of Arizona. I'm sorry if you went to
Speaker 1: these schools, but I'm sure you're gonna message me some
Speaker 1: of you and say, this is.
Speaker 2: Just a conversation. It doesn't mean everyone's a douche there.
Speaker 2: But what is the douchey play? No, I just fully
Speaker 2: admitted that I went to a douche school. But I'm saying,
Speaker 2: like if you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Like frat boy behavior or entitlement, I mean there's like
Speaker 1: levels of douche you know, Like I wouldn't say all
Speaker 1: the kids that some of the state at like state
Speaker 1: schools are are loaded, but they might be just like misogynists,
Speaker 1: like creeps that are like let's get fuffed.
Speaker 3: Up in roofy girls, you know what I mean. But yeah,
Speaker 3: Duke Scott, Duke's got a lot of problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like if that's your number one dream.
Speaker 2: But I know someone that went to the minister school there.
Speaker 2: I mean every there's different.
Speaker 1: It's like if you went to like the School of
Speaker 1: Education or like even the business school, that might be different.
Speaker 1: Like I mean we're talking undergrad I think you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So this was an amazing episode. Obviously we've learned a
Speaker 1: lot from the whole. I don't think somebody like Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson could get away with what he got away with now,
Speaker 1: Like I think that that case has taught us a lot,
Speaker 1: but I also don't. It's like we said, I don't
Speaker 1: just don't. I don't know if there is a Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson alive right now.
Speaker 3: You know, no, but you can get away with it.
Speaker 2: What just happened in football with Cleveland, Like they got
Speaker 2: someone who had twenty two accusations against him and like
Speaker 2: paying and it was like the biggest football contract ever.
Speaker 3: Like no one actually ends up caring about what people do.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm I just been Pedophilia is a little yeah,
Speaker 1: like in the you know, of course, like there's always
Speaker 1: going to be fucking yeah, gross criminal guys doing shit.
Speaker 1: But I don't think traveling on tour with a child
Speaker 1: unaccompanied would fly now, Like I truly don't think that
Speaker 1: like anyone, Like I think PR people would be like,
Speaker 1: you can't go all Michael Jackson on us, Like I'm
Speaker 1: sure he's like a case study.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's more what's that episode we did with our
Speaker 2: cool Stevie Jones Stevie Jones. Yeah, it's more undercover pool parties.
Speaker 3: Yes, and just riding the edge of legal too.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 3: Riding the edge of legal that is cool and fun.
Speaker 2: No, the world is sick like Munchausens by proxy is scary,
Speaker 2: and rich people who get away with pedophilia suck.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But also this is the funniest I learned that
Speaker 2: a big an oversized pirate hat on a man.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: You know, the new show like Flag of the Dead
Speaker 1: or Flag of our You know, there's like a it's
Speaker 1: about what it's called.
Speaker 3: Our flag's name is death or something like that, something
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: But I guess it's about it's about gay pirates, and
Speaker 2: I guess a bunch of pirates were gay, and that
Speaker 2: makes so much sense. But I never clicked in my head.
Speaker 2: But pirate are all just gay and fucking.
Speaker 3: Everybody's been gay forever.
Speaker 1: I mean, like Greek mythology, everyone was gay, Like I
Speaker 1: just was just been gay and fucking whatever.
Speaker 2: Of course, these pirates looking for treasure are gay, but it.
Speaker 3: Never occurred to me they have. They're looking for rubies
Speaker 3: and shit.
Speaker 2: Come on, But our friends are watching the show, and
Speaker 2: I really like the Nathan, the Nathan guy in it,
Speaker 2: because he was one of my favorite Instagram videos. He
Speaker 2: played the Noah's Ark gay assistant picking the animals that
Speaker 2: got to come on the boat.
Speaker 3: That's right, you sent that to me and that was
Speaker 3: very funny. It was one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2: And now he's on giant billboards in this show and
Speaker 2: my friends are watching. I have to watch because I
Speaker 2: guess it's all about just like gay pirates.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like, you know, we know people.
Speaker 1: We there's people in it that we know also, but
Speaker 1: also Taikowatiti, who made like Jojo Rabbit and a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff that I like, is like a producer of
Speaker 1: it and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I think it's probably very good.
Speaker 2: Do you remember he was He was like threaple kissing.
Speaker 2: That was like a big thing last year.
Speaker 1: Do you remember any dating Rita Aura.
Speaker 3: Yes, they're nodding, they're nodding.
Speaker 1: My fact check is just saying something and looking at
Speaker 1: Onalisa's screen. It was taikaway TV because he's dating Rida Aura,
Speaker 1: and it was Tessa Thompson.
Speaker 3: Oh right, right, we're all canoodling.
Speaker 1: So hot, like too hot, like the like the most
Speaker 1: gorgeous women and he's cute too.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but he not, I mean he is also
Speaker 2: like it seems one of the smartest, funniest people on
Speaker 2: the planet, and that adds for sure to the thing
Speaker 2: Rita Aura. I'm just like, it's like, fetch, It's never
Speaker 2: gonna happen, you.
Speaker 3: Know, dude.
Speaker 1: I listened to this other podcast. I listened to this
Speaker 1: podcast called Who Weekly. I'm sure I've mentioned it to
Speaker 1: you before. It's like about all the celebrities that you
Speaker 1: loved to know, Rita Aura is their queen. Like Rita
Speaker 1: they have a whole segment called what's Rita Aura up to?
Speaker 1: Because she is the ultimate who that will never be
Speaker 1: of them like she is never It is completely fetch.
Speaker 1: She is never going to hit her tipping point. Like
Speaker 1: you know, I know who she is. I could probably
Speaker 1: even sing a song of hers if you really pressed me.
Speaker 1: But my mom will never know who she is, Like
Speaker 1: she will never be household name. You know.
Speaker 2: She can sing a song at the Oscars in perfect pitch,
Speaker 2: in a nice gown, and we the moment she walks
Speaker 2: off stage, it's like amnesia.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I think she comes from wealth.
Speaker 3: I have no idea. She's like a British.
Speaker 1: Wealthy She's part of It's part of like all these
Speaker 1: Albanian pop stars right on Lisa, it's Dualipa, it's Rita Aura,
Speaker 1: it's a I think Ava Max and I think bb Rexa.
Speaker 1: I think they're like all Albanian. I think so, I
Speaker 1: think so clue. Well, I only know all this shit
Speaker 1: because I listened to Who Weekly sometimes and they talk
Speaker 1: about this. But that is so funny that you said that,
Speaker 1: because it's like that is absolutely like the vibe of
Speaker 1: her is it's just not gonna happen. She'll always have
Speaker 1: some level of fame, but it's never gonna be the
Speaker 1: one that she wants.
Speaker 3: But back to.
Speaker 1: Fame, Michael Jackson, all of this shit, I will say,
Speaker 1: I am happy that, like I like came around to
Speaker 1: realizing the scope of these crimes and like what happened
Speaker 1: with him, because I think I was a denier.
Speaker 3: A lot of people have been deniers.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are still deniers of what happened
Speaker 1: with him, and I, well, it's when we.
Speaker 3: Talk about a lot, it's not our own personal thing.
Speaker 2: Like that's why when we discussed it and said, like
Speaker 2: we're all a part of the system, so we're gonna
Speaker 2: believe the things that are fed to us or the
Speaker 2: big stuff, and we're kids and it's happening and you're like,
Speaker 2: no fucking way, fuck these kids, you know, or whatever
Speaker 2: the vibe is, and then you hopefully get perspective on
Speaker 2: the world and how it functions. But it's like we're
Speaker 2: all we're all possible to fall victim to, like having
Speaker 2: dumb opinions that keep up lifted propping this messed up
Speaker 2: where we live in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, that.
Speaker 2: Was like that was a I don't know how I
Speaker 2: got that sentence out. Didn't make sense, did it even
Speaker 2: make sense. It's like I was faking a presentation at
Speaker 2: college where I was just like putting things together that
Speaker 2: are like.
Speaker 1: We are here too, for obviously with the what we've
Speaker 1: seen it. But I will say that I credit the
Speaker 1: Leaving Neverland doc as a big part of my come
Speaker 1: to Jesus moment about Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2: And yes, but you said that even after it came out,
Speaker 2: his sales spiked.
Speaker 1: Of course, yes, because people are like reminded of his
Speaker 1: music and they don't care. But I wanted to lead
Speaker 1: into what would Sister Peg do this week where I
Speaker 1: am highlighting Leaving Neverland.
Speaker 3: I just think people should watch the doc.
Speaker 1: It's like important, even though it's sad and it's only
Speaker 1: you know, it's two parts, that's it, and it's an
Speaker 1: HBO documentary and you know what, HBO might be getting
Speaker 1: sued and have to take it down, so you might
Speaker 1: have to fucking you might not be able to see
Speaker 1: it for that long. So that I'm highlighting it this
Speaker 1: week for what would Sister Peg Do? And as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: two part doc that features the stories of Wade Robeson
Speaker 1: and James Safechuck and it goes into detail describing everything
Speaker 1: that happened with them and their relationship with Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1: It is an intense watch, but it's very eye opening
Speaker 1: if you want to do dive into their stories. So again,
Speaker 1: go to HBO, HBO Max and search Leaving Neverland or
Speaker 1: we will have the link to it in our show
Speaker 1: notes and as always in our Instagram highlight called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: Next week's episode, we're doing Friending Emily Season fourteen, episode six.
Speaker 2: We're really thrilled watch along with us. We're so blessed.
Speaker 3: Bye bye, guys, see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give, us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Analise Nelson.
Speaker 3: And to our mixer John Bradley.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 2: Geen Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, follow and leave us the review on Amazon Music,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget.
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Speaker 4: Don done