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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I come to stuff

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Speaker 1: I ever told you production by Heart Radio and Listeners.

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Speaker 2: Just a peak behind the scenes. When we do these classics,

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Speaker 2: we do them in batches, so sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I forgot we recorded that week's ago. But the three

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Speaker 2: that we're recording today are all we're moving into our

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Speaker 2: October kind of fall autumn creepy times. And I didn't

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Speaker 2: really mean to do this, but all of them are.

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Speaker 1: Irrelated to that. They love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, starting with we're bringing back the episode we did

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday Adams, because the new season on Wednesday came

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Speaker 2: out not a sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't a sponsor? Then not a sponsor?

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Speaker 2: Now wish I did watch and enjoyed, and I always

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Speaker 2: you know, and I hear that theme song, I know

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Speaker 2: what's coming.

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Speaker 1: I know Halloween is all the way. Yes, so please

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Speaker 1: enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 1: I'm not good to Steffan never told you a protection

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to another sub sub sub whatever sub segment fictional.

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Speaker 2: When around the world, I will say I'm in a

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Speaker 2: bit of a pickle. I'm in a bit of a pickle.

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Speaker 2: Samantha because I really wanted to do and I continue

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Speaker 2: to want to do a few last of us characters

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Speaker 2: because the show is coming out in January and I'm

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Speaker 2: hyped for this and I want to talk about them.

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Speaker 1: But now it's like a strange spoilery.

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Speaker 2: Zone because the game has been out since twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: But everybody I thought of, I'm like, that's a pretty

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Speaker 2: big spoiler if somebody has somehow managed to avoid getting

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Speaker 2: spoiled from listening to this show.

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Speaker 4: Right to be fair, outside of listening to the show, obviously,

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Speaker 4: but with the show coming on on HBO, had it

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Speaker 4: not been for you, I would not know anything about

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Speaker 4: the show.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: But if I talked about the people I was going

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Speaker 2: to talk about, it would have been a major spoiler.

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Speaker 2: There was four people I thought of, four, and all

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Speaker 2: of them I was like, oh no, I can't.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, Well, I've definitely done spoiler days years before,

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Speaker 4: So I think as long as you do the spoiler

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Speaker 4: alert at the top, yeah, okay, I think we should.

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Speaker 4: I think you should think about it. You don't have

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Speaker 4: to be in that pickle anymore.

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Speaker 2: You're trying to get me out of this pickle. I

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Speaker 2: was you should have seen me deliberate. I know it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't surprise you, but I was like, just couldn't.

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Speaker 3: No, it doesn't you deliberating on things.

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Speaker 2: Does not.

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Speaker 1: No well.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is I actually had another character

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Speaker 2: I was going to talk about today who I really

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Speaker 2: cannot wait to talk about.

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Speaker 1: It is from a cartoon series. I'll give you a

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Speaker 1: little hint.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: I know who wrote you could look at the calendar,

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Speaker 2: but don't. Don't let it be a surprise. No, no,

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Speaker 2: But I bumped it because the internet is on fire

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Speaker 2: with this fictional character, because today we are talking about

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Speaker 2: Wednesday Adams, the deadpan goth character who has ye just

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Speaker 2: taken over the internet. And that's saying something that I

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Speaker 2: know about it because I'm not on TikTok, but things

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Speaker 2: have come my way and.

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Speaker 3: I did watch the show, so I'm excited.

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Speaker 4: But because I am from the original era of Christina Lucci,

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Speaker 4: not Rich, I guess the secondary era of Riti playing

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Speaker 4: the character.

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Speaker 3: Had there been social media like that.

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Speaker 4: I think she would have really owned it because she

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Speaker 4: kind of owned our generation between this character Casper and

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Speaker 4: Now and then those movies.

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Speaker 3: She I think would have been could have been a

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Speaker 3: little more iconic.

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Speaker 4: I mean to the fact that she was in this

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Speaker 4: news edition because she was that iconic.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, I hope you'll talk about that when we

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Speaker 2: get to it, because I've actually never seen.

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Speaker 1: It any of those things.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I spoilers, but very light spoilers, I'll say.

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Speaker 2: For the show, I haven't really had a lot of

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Speaker 2: experience with the Adams family. I vaguely remember watching some

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Speaker 2: of the very old show when I was a kid

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Speaker 2: because my dad liked it in the song the theme

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Speaker 2: song was on the Halloween playlist every year.

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Speaker 1: But that's about that was the extent of my knowledge.

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Speaker 2: I did watch Netflix's Wednesday, which broke the platforms record

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Speaker 2: for most hours streamed. I did always like the character though,

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Speaker 2: even though I hadn't like seen a lot of the

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Speaker 2: material she was in. I always liked her. I liked

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Speaker 2: the look of her. I liked the general vibe of her.

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Speaker 2: I think I wanted to dresses her. I have a

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Speaker 2: Wednesday outfit up here. I never did it, but I

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Speaker 2: have the outfit that's ready to go.

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Speaker 4: That iconic dress, which has always been a part of

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Speaker 4: the character since the beginning. That's still a big fashion

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Speaker 4: trend and it was even before this release. Has been

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Speaker 4: like I remember looking for something for like nice black dresses,

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Speaker 4: and that dress would pop up and I'm like, why

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Speaker 4: would I, as an adult thing, want to go to

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Speaker 4: a wedding wearing that?

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Speaker 1: But no, it would be awesome people. You get people

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Speaker 1: talking true. So here's the quote about the numbers.

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Speaker 2: Tim Burton's Adams Family reboot series has become only the

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Speaker 2: third Netflix show to rack up a billion hours of

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Speaker 2: views in a month, and I believe it's gone up

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Speaker 2: since then. The dance, the Wednesday Dance, which has a

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Speaker 2: lot of issues and back and forth round.

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Speaker 1: It, but it is everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Tim Burton, who directed a bunch of the episodes, is problematic,

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Speaker 2: but we are not talking about that today. That's a

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Speaker 2: different thing. And yeah, we're not really going to go

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Speaker 2: in depth on plot stuff. We're more just talking about

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Speaker 2: the character. So yeah, minor spoilers, but not nothing major. Also,

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Speaker 2: I was born on a Wednesday and the poem Wednesday's

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Speaker 2: Child is full of flow. I loved that poem when

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Speaker 2: I was a kid because I really wanted to be emo.

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Speaker 1: Even young. I was like, ah, yes, yeah, the tragedy

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Speaker 1: of being born on a Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: And there's a series called The Keys to the Kingdom

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Speaker 2: series which I loved when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 2: it had all these kind of like.

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Speaker 1: Every character Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: It represented like one of the seven Sins, and Wednesday

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Speaker 2: was one of my favorites. Okay, so let's talk about

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Speaker 2: this character. So Wednesday Friday Adams is one of the

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Speaker 2: main characters of the Adams Family franchise is depicted in

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Speaker 2: the comics that first debuted in nineteen thirty eight in

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Speaker 2: The New Yorker, and TV shows, films, and a musical.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know, at the core, the Adams family

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Speaker 2: is sort of a wacky, creepy, outcast family of gothy

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Speaker 2: kind of monster adjacent folks. They're sort of like the

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Speaker 2: Halloween version of something like the Brady's. So Wednesday's parents

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Speaker 2: are more Titia and Gomez Adams, and she is the

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Speaker 2: older sister to Pugsley and Pubert Adams, though the ages

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Speaker 2: and order has changed a lot. And yeah, she was

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Speaker 2: named after the nursery rhymeline. Wednesday's child is full of woe.

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Speaker 2: Over the years, she has been played by several people,

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Speaker 2: from Lisa Louring, Christina Valenzuela, Nicole Fuguiere, Khylie Grace Moretz,

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Speaker 2: Christina Ricci, and now Jena Ortega. She's usually depicted as

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Speaker 2: having pale skin, dark hair and braided pigtails, black clothes,

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Speaker 2: and just a general gothy look, although that's not always

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Speaker 2: true but kind of generally right yeah, And this has

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Speaker 2: also sparked conversation about Latina representation because generally, but not always,

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Speaker 2: Gomez has been played by Latino actor, but it was

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Speaker 2: never really a big piece of his identity. And while

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Speaker 2: people were excited for Tega on the new show, the

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Speaker 2: same is true for her character and her very sympathetic

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Speaker 2: ancestor Goodie in the show is a white settler with

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Speaker 2: blonde hair, and many argue should have been a meso

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Speaker 2: American or indigenous person instead. And on top of that,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the bullies, who admittedly were redeemed but

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Speaker 2: still were the few black characters in the show right, so.

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Speaker 3: Including owning a pilgrim world, which is like yes.

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Speaker 1: On the creators and actors.

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Speaker 2: The character has changed in its depiction, but a few

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Speaker 2: things generally remain the same. For instance, when she was

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Speaker 2: first introduced in the nineteen sixties show as a six

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Speaker 2: year old girl. People argue about her age all the time.

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Speaker 2: She was fascinated with the macabre, and that's been a

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Speaker 2: constant theme of her character. However, some iterations of her

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Speaker 2: have been sweeter than what most of us probably would expect.

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Speaker 2: Definitely in the context of the rest of her family.

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Speaker 2: She was the quote nice one in these early versions

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Speaker 2: in the nineties movie series, though she was meaner and

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Speaker 2: you'll have to talk about.

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Speaker 1: This, Savantha.

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Speaker 2: She also typically has a strong protected streak with her family,

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Speaker 2: though she might try to hide or deny it. However,

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Speaker 2: there are plenty of instances where she really really punishes

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Speaker 2: people who disrespect her family. In the twenty nineteen movie,

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Speaker 2: she's nice to those who don't bother her, but not

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Speaker 2: so much to those who do, and she usually has.

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Speaker 1: Some kind of scientist or smooth angle going.

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Speaker 2: On, right.

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Speaker 4: She's always either doing in an experiment or she's always

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Speaker 4: on a case of something. And the ones that I

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Speaker 4: do remember is she does love punishing her brother Slash,

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Speaker 4: playing quote unquote with her brother, but it's typically like

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Speaker 4: trying to dismember him, or trying to electrocute him, or

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Speaker 4: trying to explode him.

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Speaker 3: And he loves it publicly just loves it.

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Speaker 4: However, Yeah, but if he tried to mess with her

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Speaker 4: or try to tease her, She's gonna come at you.

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Speaker 4: The two difference with Ricchie and Ortega, the or take

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Speaker 4: a character is a lot more. I feel like she

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Speaker 4: would be actually on the spectrum character of like being

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Speaker 4: so hyper focused and so like over the top, like

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Speaker 4: unable to excude emotions as where Richie's character just didn't

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Speaker 4: want to. It was kind of like one of those

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Speaker 4: one felt like a choice, one felt like a diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: If you can, if you can go there.

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Speaker 2: Right right, that's a quote, that's the quote of the episode.

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Speaker 2: Well do you remember, like when did you see the

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Speaker 2: nineties movie?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I was definitely younger. It's definitely during the times

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Speaker 4: of was after I want to say Casper, which we

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Speaker 4: all loved everything because Devin Sawa. We loved Devin Sawa

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Speaker 4: and then like fell in love with the ghost.

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Speaker 3: Apparently. I was pretty young.

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Speaker 4: I was eleven, and Christina Ricci would have been eleven

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Speaker 4: as well. I think we were the same age. And

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Speaker 4: by the way, I do love the resurgence of Christina

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Speaker 4: Ricci coming back full swing into the acting world because.

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Speaker 3: She's always been great to me.

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Speaker 4: So the three films that I know her best are

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Speaker 4: The Adam's Family, Casper, and Now and Then. So for me,

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Speaker 4: I think Now and Then was the big one because

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Speaker 4: that was specifically made for I think young girls. But

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Speaker 4: then like, yeah, she was Adam's Family first and then

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Speaker 4: the other two. But what I do remember is like,

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Speaker 4: even though you had big names like in Jelkie Houston,

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Speaker 4: Christopher Lloyd, as in fact, one of the movies were

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Speaker 4: based on Christopher Lloyd coming back to the family, Christina

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Speaker 4: Ricci always always pulled focus, whether it was she was

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Speaker 4: the one I think investigating Christoph Lloyd actually his character

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Speaker 4: who plays Uncle Fester, who loses his memory and comes

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Speaker 4: back to the family. So it's like she was the

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Speaker 4: focus for all the movies even though other big name

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Speaker 4: characters were on it as well, and she was fairly

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Speaker 4: new for that.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I do remember.

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Speaker 4: And her characters were always like pointed, like it was

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Speaker 4: dark and mysterious, but it was her character, those big eyes.

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Speaker 3: It worked for her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I would agree, like again, I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it, but what I felt like when I think

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Speaker 2: of those movies, all the images I remember, all the

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Speaker 2: like random quotes I've heard people say are from Wednesday. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I had to resist just reading a bunch of

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Speaker 2: quotes because that character, it just bangs them out, like yes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, shown a witty one liner, likes things and walks away.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's amazing, Yes it is.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of the thing why people love this

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Speaker 2: character so much, because she has been the source of

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Speaker 2: a lot of feminist articles and so many people over

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Speaker 2: the years have cosplayed her. The second I saw this

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Speaker 2: new show, I was like, oh, yeah, next year at

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Speaker 2: dragon Con, this is it.

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Speaker 1: This is gonna be.

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Speaker 3: Huge, all of them. Yes, yeah, and I mean.

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Speaker 1: There's like iconic looks. I get it.

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Speaker 2: And I do think one of the reasons she really

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Speaker 2: resonated with a lot of people, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: women and girls is that she is the opposite of

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Speaker 2: how young girls are typically portrayed in our media, which

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Speaker 2: we've talked about a lot in the show, Like there

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Speaker 2: are so many juxtapositions with her because pigtails, for instance,

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Speaker 2: are usually associated with innocent young girls. But she does

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Speaker 2: not behave that way. She doesn't beave how you expect.

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Speaker 2: She leans into the strange. She is quote not emotional,

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Speaker 2: which we'll return to in a minute. But she's just

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Speaker 2: kind of like the opposite of what we're used to

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Speaker 2: seeing and much of our media when it comes to

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Speaker 2: that type of character. From Black Girl Nerds, specifically about

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Speaker 2: the nineties version of this character quote, she's not nice,

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Speaker 2: she's not sweet, and she's not sorry. Wednesday Adams is blunt, cynical, sarcastic,

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Speaker 2: and has the most enviable, resting bitch face, none of

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Speaker 2: which she has any intention of apologizing for. That's right,

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Speaker 2: when unsuspecting people dole out the usual garbage of you

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Speaker 2: should smile more, Wednesday asserts herself firmly and defiantly refuses

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Speaker 2: to smile on command, a brilliant example for every young

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Speaker 2: girl told to make herself look friendly and approachable, because

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Speaker 2: God forbid, women appear the least bit intimidating. Although she

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Speaker 2: is white, cis presumably straight female. She doesn't use her

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Speaker 2: privilege as an excuse, but rather as a tool to

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Speaker 2: amplify the voices of those who find it much harder

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Speaker 2: to be heard. And then this is from bitch Flicks,

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Speaker 2: What does it mean to be a little girl? There's

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Speaker 2: so much cultural baggage associated with female childhood. On the

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Speaker 2: one hand, little girls are pure and innocent and needing

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Speaker 2: of protection. They're the emotional backdrop of a thousand action movies.

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Speaker 2: The father must get home and save his darling little girl.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, little girls are threatening, They're creepy,

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Speaker 2: They're the demons of a thousand horror movies. The family

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Speaker 2: union must save itself from the imprecations of a terrifying

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Speaker 2: little girl who wants to destroy them. And then there's

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Speaker 2: Wednesday Adams. She's another thing entirely, and Wednesday is still

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Speaker 2: really really threatening.

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Speaker 1: That's right threatening.

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Speaker 2: Part of why I loved these movies so much as

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Speaker 2: a kid was because Wednesday, far from being a delicate

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Speaker 2: flower or even playing second fiddle to her brother, is

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Speaker 2: arguably the most dangerous character in the whole story. She

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Speaker 2: has a sense of apathy and morbid misery mixed in

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Speaker 2: with a violent streak and superhuman strength. She's very threatening,

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Speaker 2: especially to everyone she views as well.

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Speaker 1: That's threat.

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Speaker 2: I would say that if she fears anything, it's becoming normal,

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Speaker 2: and that's a powerful message, the idea that the biggest

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Speaker 2: thing we had to fear is not abnormality, but the

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Speaker 2: loss of what makes us distinct. It's especially poignant coming

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Speaker 2: from Wednesday, because what makes her distinct is so well distinctive. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: And as we said, she's very, very antisocial, and she

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Speaker 2: has so many great dark, dark at one liners, and

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Speaker 2: it's kind of comical and entertaining to see a young

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Speaker 2: girl reject so much of societal norms to talk about

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Speaker 2: these huge literary figures, to quote them like's.

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Speaker 1: It was funny to see the juxtaposition.

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Speaker 2: Of her and her roommate, who a lot of people ship,

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Speaker 2: by the way, in the new show.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, apparently Ortega doesn't two. I don't know if

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00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 4: she's just like feeding into the frenzy.

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Speaker 3: But uh it made yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: One of the things I think is interesting because in

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Speaker 4: what I remember about the nineteen ninety one movies, and

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Speaker 4: someone can correct me, but there is a really problematic

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Speaker 4: scene nineteen ninety one in which they are playing Native

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Speaker 4: Americans and cowboys essentially, but Wednesday makes this comment about

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Speaker 4: how the pilgrims slaughtered essentially all of the Native Americans

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Speaker 4: and it is their fault that they brought in disease

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Speaker 4: and like they tricked the man.

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Speaker 3: Like she says this, and everybody's like, oh.

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Speaker 4: My god, you know, like making a comitic scene, as

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Speaker 4: well as the fact that in the New Wednesday they

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00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 4: talk about the problematic issues with chocolate and how they

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00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 4: use enslaved peoples and the Germans used in slave peoples

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Speaker 4: to gather all this chocolate and massacred a whole community

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Speaker 4: for chocolate. And I found that funny because like, these

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Speaker 4: are the things that we know Wenesday does. She's going

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Speaker 4: to take what white people, and essentially it is white

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00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 4: people would want as a celebration to be decimated with

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Speaker 4: the truth, like the level of the problematic issues with

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Speaker 4: that subject that people, the white people.

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Speaker 3: Were trying to celebrate. So I did appreciate those things.

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Speaker 4: That was a couple of the things that like poked

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Speaker 4: out of my mind when it comes to the fact that.

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Speaker 3: She was making sure you knew the truth whether you

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Speaker 3: liked it or not. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's kind of one of the things that

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Speaker 2: I think is really interesting about this character. Why I

335
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Speaker 2: think so many people like her is she doesn't so

336
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Speaker 2: many of us for reasons We've talked about, for reasons

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Speaker 2: I totally understand, and I've done, like you do that

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00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 2: thing for safety, Like you're like, oh, I don't want

339
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 2: to speak up because it's not safe for me to do.

340
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Speaker 2: So it's fun to watch a character be like no,

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00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 2: and she's danger like they said, like you don't mess

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00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 2: with her. So it's really like rewarding to kind of

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00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,359
Speaker 2: get to live that moment of oh, I wish I

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00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 2: could do that, like, oh, yeah.

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00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:10,439
Speaker 1: Really live it.

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Speaker 2: And then I do love so many things aimed at

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Speaker 2: teenage girls, and I think this is changing, and it

348
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,160
Speaker 2: has been changing for a while, but for so long

349
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 2: was just like so focused on the romance part and

350
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 2: so focused on like the thing she'd be writing in

351
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 2: her diary is, oh, why won't this guy notice me?

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00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 1: That's like the last thing on her mind.

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00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 2: It's not that she's like if something comes her way,

354
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 2: she's not kind of interested, but that's just not her thing,

355
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 2: Like that's the bet on the back burner she's got

356
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 2: all these other things.

357
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,640
Speaker 3: Are right, that's definitely nineteen ninety one. Wednesday didn't care

358
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 3: about boys boys.

359
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 1: Right, And I appreciate that.

360
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 2: I appreciate I liked seeing the comparison of her like

361
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 2: her in the room mate, where the roommate's like, I

362
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 2: have my blog and I'm writing about.

363
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,359
Speaker 1: This and this and this, and Wednesday's just like let

364
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah, exactly exactly.

365
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: Here is a quote from the Guardian, especially for a

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00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 2: teenager with a kid friendly rating. Wednesday speaks with the

367
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 2: critical self awareness and acumen of your textbook byronic hero,

368
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 2: a literary architect commonly associated with Heathcliff of Emily Bronte's

369
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights, or more recently, Gossip Girls, Chuck Bass and

370
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 2: even Sylvie. They're your clever, morose, condescending types, dangerously blessed

371
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: with irresistible good looks and saddled the baggage of past trauma.

372
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 2: Wednesday's trauma is the death of her pet Scorpion, who

373
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: was murdered when she was six. She's sence bowed to

374
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 2: never cry again.

375
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Speaker 3: That was hard, That was mean.

376
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: It was mean.

377
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 2: I did I want to come back and talk about

378
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 2: this because a lot of articles have come out about

379
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 2: because of the popularity of the show about why we

380
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: love women who hate us?

381
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: So I do want to come.

382
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: Back and talk about Oh lord, no, I think it'll

383
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 2: be interesting.

384
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 1: I think be funny. I would argue in the new show.

385
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 2: She is somewhat of what a mainstream media person would

386
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 2: call Mary Sue. I have a whole lot of thoughts

387
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 2: about this, and you can listen to our past episode

388
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: about that. But like good at everything other than human interaction,

389
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: and everyone loves her. But again I don't think there's

390
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 2: anything wrong with that necessarily, And dudes get away with

391
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: that Scott free without a sexist moniker being attached to them,

392
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 2: So just to put that out there. She also has

393
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 2: like psychic powers, which I think has gone off and

394
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 2: on throughout her her run. She can play the cello,

395
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: can speak multiple languages, convince she's pretty awesome.

396
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 3: And an archer in all of the movies.

397
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,880
Speaker 1: It's the archer. Yeah, you're right.

398
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 2: One thing that they didn't really resolve in this season

399
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: of the show. I haven't seen any of the other things,

400
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 2: and I saw some people kind of complain about this,

401
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: But there was a tense mother daughter relationship in the

402
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: show where Wednesday did not want to be like her mother,

403
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: kind of felt pressure to be like her, very much like.

404
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 1: A teenage pushing away, don't want to do it.

405
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 2: I've heard that that was kind of a departure.

406
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's never a thing.

407
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 4: The mother never really cares and the daughter never really

408
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 4: cares for her mother's approval. Actually, everything she did she

409
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 4: got her mother's approval essentially, And it's true the Wednesday one,

410
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 4: she everything she did. Mother was proud because it was

411
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: all that dark and morose type of conversation and they're

412
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 4: very proud of that. The only thing that the mother,

413
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 4: Catherine Sada Jones, which was I did not realize she

414
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 4: was going to play this until I watched it, is

415
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 4: that she wants her daughter's affections. Yeah, that's not a

416
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 4: thing right in the other movies, I kind of separates

417
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 4: the two of them mistigially.

418
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So we could come back.

419
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 2: And maybe talk about that.

420
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: Later.

421
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 2: I do also think this is an interesting uh in

422
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: that activist around the world where you unfortunately could not

423
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 2: be there where I read listener mail Samantha I did.

424
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 2: I mentioned a quote about I seen from a famous

425
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: author who is saying like, essentially, once you start to

426
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 2: break apart characters for that are intended for children audiences,

427
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: as an adult.

428
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: Everything falls apart.

429
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: And I do think this was a really interesting example

430
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: of where Wednesday's like, well, I've been somebody's trying to

431
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: kill me, and.

432
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: I've been like all this stuff of this stuff, and

433
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: they're like, oh great, it's going well, Like.

434
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: It was a fun flip on that that whole idea and.

435
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: Then going back to something you said earlier.

436
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: There has been discussion about how Wednesday's anti social behaviors

437
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: could be coded as autism or something on the spectrum.

438
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: Here's another quote from The Guardian.

439
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: Only when a conventionally beautiful, non weird person performs weirdness

440
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: is this palatable to quote normal people? According to one commentary,

441
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: the parent of an autistic child actually quote weird people

442
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: get bullied, sidelined or placed outside of the zone of

443
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 2: real friendships, and I agree. I think this is one

444
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: of the reasons the character hits with so many people

445
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: who feel like outcasts in one way or another. But

446
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: realistically it wouldn't play out like this again right.

447
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 4: As an adult to be fair into this series, specifically

448
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 4: the very beginning scene which she's expelled from a regular school.

449
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: They are the outcast there.

450
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 4: She gets expelled, which that's why her brother gets bullied constantly.

451
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 4: She comes to a school for wayward people like people

452
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 4: with powers, so that behavior is not so off putting

453
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 4: in a school like that. I think someone with a

454
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: spectrum that has that typic if she was on the spectrum,

455
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 4: as I was saying, I'm like, if I was watching

456
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 4: this clinically, I would think that she was on the

457
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 4: spectrum with high functioning all of these things and more

458
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: OCD than anything else, because her hyper focus is very obvious,

459
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 4: to the point that she does not care who she

460
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: runs over, which was part of the conversation in that

461
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 4: she's in an environment where she success. She's successful because

462
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: she can do all of these things really really well

463
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: in a school that is an outsider.

464
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: So right would she have been so outsided? I don't know.

465
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: Right, that's a good point. That's a good point.

466
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 2: And another thing is like she's she's a really fun character,

467
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: but she is pretty toxic. Like, Okay, we're putting in

468
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: our real world things, right, it doesn't necessarily need to be.

469
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: But she's definitely a friend I would drop. I would

470
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 2: drop her. Very fun to watch. Christina Ricci said of

471
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: her Wednesday, was allowed to be just who she was.

472
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: She's never asked to change or compromise or hide who

473
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 2: she is.

474
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: And actually there's there was.

475
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 2: A whole piece CNN just released yesterday about why in

476
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: the world did this dance take off so much? And

477
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: that was one of their big points, was like, it's

478
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: because she essentially was she was doing the dance like

479
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: nobody's watching but did not care at all.

480
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: She was being herself.

481
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 4: Absolutely and also retro is coming back in. That was

482
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 4: like a retro interpreted dance.

483
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: It was, it was. It was very unpredictable. That's what

484
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: I would say.

485
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: From Slat. Here's a quote. Sure, there are problems with this.

486
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 2: For one, it assumes that stoicism, a more stereotypically masculine trade,

487
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: is preferred. The feminine position on the emotional gender binary

488
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: leans toward expressiveness and melodrama, and the cliche that women

489
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 2: can't control their emotions and is often weaponized against them.

490
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: How many times have women been deemed too emotional to

491
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: do something like Romona Country mass swooning over deadpan women

492
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: implies that expressive, vivacious women are somehow not in control.

493
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: Quite the opposite.

494
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: There's bravery and merit and being as passionate or allowed

495
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: as you want to be, knowing it could be spit

496
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: back at you in some silly gender debate.

497
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: It means someone has the guts to let you know them.

498
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: And then one final quote from the Guardian, the enduring

499
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: appeal of characters like this an admittedly toxic outcast with

500
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: inherently good intentions is the desire for every weirdo to

501
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: feel seen on TV. Wednesday's formula may be flawed, but

502
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: fantasy is the point in an idealized world where your

503
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: well timed barbes and lack of interest in others' approval

504
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: made you impervious to bullies and the caretaker of your

505
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: fellow misfits. Who wouldn't want to be Wednesday Adams. Yes, yeah, yep,

506
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: that's what we're.

507
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: Kind of talking about.

508
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, in this fantasy world, it'd be great if

509
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: you just say what you want, protect the misfits fantastic.

510
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 3: And can shoot in po and era, yes, and.

511
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: Can shoot a bow and arrow confence.

512
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: Slipping and she lost. Though I did like it.

513
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: I liked that too.

514
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 3: That was unpredicted, that was not what I expected.

515
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked that too, But also yeah, I like

516
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: I like I said, I want to come back and

517
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 2: revisit this deadpan woman thing because I don't think it's wrong.

518
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: I think it's really fun to see a character like

519
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: this who is stoic and all those things. But there

520
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: is we can't ignore that. Yeah, that's typically more of

521
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: a masculine thing, and right, all of this seems like.

522
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 4: It's mel gaze and I speaking of that, I definitely

523
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 4: saw a TikTok. And when men write women being strong,

524
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 4: yes literally like stoic, deadpan and being angry but like

525
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 4: seating but fighting the type of and if you're feminine,

526
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 4: that's not a heroin right.

527
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll have to come back and talk about that.

528
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: I do think that these characters are wonderful and I

529
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: think that should be a a fine thing to.

530
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: Do, but we can't. Yeah, there's so much other stuff,

531
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: so much other stuff in the background. But yeah, this

532
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: is a really fun one to research, and.

533
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 2: I honestly this is a longer one of these episodes,

534
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: and I narrowed it down, like.

535
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 4: A lot of things.

536
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: About this, So maybe we'll come back in one day

537
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 2: revisit it. There's so much out there if you want

538
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: to read more about her. But she's Yeah, she was

539
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: a fun character to research.

540
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: I liked it.

541
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: In the meantime. I do got a lot of character

542
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: just coming up. But if you've got one that's burning

543
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: in the back of your brain, listeners, please let us know.

544
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: You can email us Stephania mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

545
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at most step Podcasts,

546
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: or on Instagram at stuff When Never Told You.

547
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer christ Do you.

548
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 3: Know another incredible woman?

549
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When

550
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: I Ever Told you the production of iHeartRadio. For more

551
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check out the

552
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or regulusen to your favorite

553
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: shows