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Speaker 1: Word just in from the Titime County Corner. Gabby Petito

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Speaker 1: was killed a homicide. There's no two ways about it.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Just before five o'clock Tuesday evening,

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Speaker 1: the FBI confirmed the remains found Sunday in Wyoming are

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Speaker 1: indeed that of Gabby Petito. The manner of death was

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Speaker 1: listed as homicide. The FBI said in a statement, the

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Speaker 1: FBI and our partners remained dedicated to ensuring anyone responsible

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Speaker 1: for or complicit end Miss Petito's death is held accountable

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Speaker 1: for their actions. You were just hearing our friends at

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Speaker 1: ABC seven. Cause of death and manner of death are

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Speaker 1: two very different things, But what we know right now

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Speaker 1: is Gabby Petito was killed. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: it all. Deal Carson, high profile lawyer joining us out

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Speaker 1: of Jacksonville. Also former FBI agent Karen start renowned New

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Speaker 1: York psychologists joining us from Manhattan at Karen Stark dot com.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute

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Speaker 1: at Cold Case Tips. Doctor Pria Bannergy joining US board

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Speaker 1: certified anatomic and forensic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology dot

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Speaker 1: com and joining us. They're on the scene. Camped outside

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Speaker 1: Titian County Coroner's office is Fox Senior News correspondent Laura Ingle. Laura,

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Speaker 1: what's happening? Well, right now, we are awaiting word that

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Speaker 1: the county corner here is going to release the remains

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Speaker 1: of Gabby Potito back to the family. But as of

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Speaker 1: this morning, we have been told that they do still

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Speaker 1: have her remains. There is still more testing of that

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Speaker 1: is going to be done. The ID as we know,

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Speaker 1: has been announced. Homicide has been announced, but they are

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Speaker 1: still doing the toxicology and also some other testing on

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Speaker 1: the remains. So until that is completed, that is when

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Speaker 1: they will be releasing the remains back to the family.

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Speaker 1: We know that the stepfather is still here in Jackson

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Speaker 1: and he will be here until it is time as

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Speaker 1: the family has said, to bring Gabby home to Doctor

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Speaker 1: Banerjee joining US board certified Anatomica forensic pathologist an Ama

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Speaker 1: and the medical examiners. Doctor Banerjee, what do they mean

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Speaker 1: They're saying it's homicide, but they're not telling me what's

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Speaker 1: the difference between cause of death and manner of death.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. That's very specific to our field.

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Speaker 1: But the way I explain it, if cause of death

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Speaker 1: is why the person died, and manner is a classification

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Speaker 1: as to how that manner or how that clause happened.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, and so here what they're telling us by

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Speaker 1: labeling it or classifying it as a homicide in the

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Speaker 1: manner it is that she did not die of natural

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Speaker 1: causes or suicide has been alleged. This is definitely a

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Speaker 1: homicide death at the hands of another. Cheryl McCollum joining me,

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Speaker 1: Director and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensics expert.

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Speaker 1: There's a big difference and cause of death and manner

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Speaker 1: of death. What do you think I think they're going

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Speaker 1: to hold that close to their risk because when they

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Speaker 1: get the suspective killer in a interrogation room, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: watch what he says and his manners. So if he's

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden blurts out, hey, I didn't strangle her,

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Speaker 1: nobody say anything about strong elation. Why would he bring

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Speaker 1: that up? That's a really good point. And Delle Carson

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Speaker 1: joining me, a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and

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Speaker 1: former fed with the FBI. Dale Carson, what do you

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Speaker 1: think you and I, Cheryl All, everybody on the panel

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Speaker 1: has seen so many homicide cases. What do you think, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think he's not going to say anything when he

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Speaker 1: is ultimately found and arrested. And of course the Emmys

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Speaker 1: office still has a great deal to do. You know,

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Speaker 1: was her skull fractured? It's not an accident, we know

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Speaker 1: that much now, and we know it's a homicide. How

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Speaker 1: is it a homicide? What actually killed her? And then

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Speaker 1: there are many other tests they have to look at

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Speaker 1: to determine whether or not she had chemicals on board

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Speaker 1: that she wasn't supposed to have, or if he's pregnant. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that. Guys, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our cut one twenty six Kristen Thorne, ABC seven.

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Speaker 1: To be clear about the manner of death and cause

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Speaker 1: of death, that can be very confusing. We now know

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Speaker 1: that the manner of death has been ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 1: The cause of death how Gabby Petito was killed has

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Speaker 1: not yet been determined. We reached out to the Laundry

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Speaker 1: family attorney to get a reaction to all of this.

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Speaker 1: To Gabby Petito's remains to being identified, to the manner

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Speaker 1: of death, being listed as a homicide. In his reaction

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Speaker 1: and statement from the family was five words made Gabby

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Speaker 1: rest in peace? Well, they certainly did not go overboard

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Speaker 1: with that. May Gabby rest in peace this while their

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Speaker 1: son is still on the run. I'm gonna go now

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Speaker 1: back to doctor Priya Banerjee. So what are our choices?

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Speaker 1: We know it was a homicide that much they've told us.

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Speaker 1: You heard Dale Carson out of Jacksonville. Former FBI agent state,

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Speaker 1: did she have a skull fracture? What else are we

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Speaker 1: going to be looking at to determine cause of death?

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Speaker 1: Manner of death? Homicide? Cause of death? Was she bludgeoned?

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Speaker 1: How can we determine that? Was she stabbed? How can

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Speaker 1: we determine that? Was she smothered? How can we determine

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Speaker 1: that drowned? How can we determine that? What are we

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Speaker 1: looking for? What are our choices? And what will the

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Speaker 1: evidence be as it relates to each one of those

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Speaker 1: homicide choices? Yeah? I mean that that's the money right there,

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Speaker 1: That's the entire autopsy. You know, you can't go into

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Speaker 1: it with only one option in your mind. You know,

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Speaker 1: everything has to be out there. And my colleagues definitely

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Speaker 1: have a complicated case on their hands because we know

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Speaker 1: that it's been at least a few weeks that she

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Speaker 1: hasn't been heard from, So now her we you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's safe to assume that there's decomposition changes and

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Speaker 1: other effects of being out there. As you said, bludgeoning,

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Speaker 1: we look for skull fractures, bleeding, stabbing or gunshot wounds.

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Speaker 1: You look for, you know, holes that shouldn't be there

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Speaker 1: and bleeding associated with it, and us like domestic violence

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Speaker 1: type cases, you really want to think about smothering, strangulate,

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Speaker 1: you know, strangulation, anything like that that's very up close

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Speaker 1: and personal, so you know. And the other thing I

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Speaker 1: like to say is it's not just always just one method,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't think that it can't be some blunt force,

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Speaker 1: some strangulation, whatever it may be, you know, to to

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Speaker 1: you know, formally or fully kill someone. It could be

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Speaker 1: with their weekend with one method and then killed with another.

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Speaker 1: So lots going on there. Time stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum, cold case research analysts and expert.

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Speaker 1: Let's just take it one at a time. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about dabbing. I believe she was still clothed. Therefore, I

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Speaker 1: would be looking for tears or puncture wounds in the clothing.

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Speaker 1: Then if there are puncture wounds in the clothing, I

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Speaker 1: would try to match that plane. I'm just a JD,

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Speaker 1: certainly not an MD. I would try to then put

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Speaker 1: the clothes on her body and then see where that

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Speaker 1: puncture wound matched up to a puncture wound on her

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Speaker 1: actual body. Then I would try to determine was the

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Speaker 1: weapon serrated. Was it a dagger, was it an ice pick?

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Speaker 1: What was it? And you can determine that from the

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Speaker 1: wound itself. I would also look for nicks or cuts

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Speaker 1: on the bones under the skin. There, I would look

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Speaker 1: for bleeding internally, if a just say, a kidney was

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Speaker 1: suddenly sliced open and bleeding, That's what I think you

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Speaker 1: would look for if there had been a stabbing. What

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Speaker 1: about if there had been blunt force trauma? And as

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Speaker 1: doctor Pria Banners, she said, we have body decomp because

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Speaker 1: she's been left out in the elements, the rain, the wind,

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Speaker 1: the cold at night, the heat during the day. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna slow things down. But let's talk about blunt force, okay,

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Speaker 1: and smothering. Start with blunt force They are definitely going

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Speaker 1: to look at the injuries to her head or face,

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Speaker 1: anything that was opened. They're going to look to see

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Speaker 1: if there's any dirt or soul in there that would

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Speaker 1: be indicative of the fall versus wasn't opened before. They're

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Speaker 1: going to do that. They're also going to look for

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Speaker 1: defensive wounds on her hands and on her arms. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna look for skin under her fingernails. Maybe she fought

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Speaker 1: the person, if she were strangled, you know, before she

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Speaker 1: was beat or vice versa, if she bought in any way,

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Speaker 1: they're going to look for that. They're also going to

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Speaker 1: look again for tears and her clothing. Was her collar,

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Speaker 1: you know, extended, was some buttons ripped off? Was the

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Speaker 1: shirt itself ripped? Anything that would be indicative of a

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Speaker 1: fight or her being pulled or even strangled with her clothing.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm thinking about, Doctor Pria Banerjee, is

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Speaker 1: has decomp set in to the point that her skin

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Speaker 1: was slipping or decomposing, and you can't see finger marks

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Speaker 1: or bruises around her neck. The decomposition and the discoloration

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Speaker 1: really make it much more challenging. But once you get inside,

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Speaker 1: you're really going to look for bleeding and maybe fractures

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Speaker 1: and the delicate bones of the neck. You mean like

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Speaker 1: the hioid bone, exactly, hioid bone. It's very very delicate.

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Speaker 1: And also if her skin had begun to decompose, you

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Speaker 1: would also look for bruising to the muscles under the skin,

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Speaker 1: which I think would still be in take. I think

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Speaker 1: I hear Dale Carson jumping in jump in deal. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just did a calculation and it's twenty four days

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Speaker 1: she was laying out. Just that's a good estimate, and

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Speaker 1: that allows for time for a great deal of competition

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Speaker 1: or decomposition, and we'll make it really difficult for the

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Speaker 1: coroners to determine precisely when she died. But of course

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Speaker 1: we now have an actual witness seeing him in that

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Speaker 1: specific area before when she went missing. I want to

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Speaker 1: go to Karen Start, New York Psychologists joining us out

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Speaker 1: of Manhattan. Karen, given what we know, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to circle back to Laura Ingle to describe it for you.

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Speaker 1: Of prior domestic incidents, a very disturbing nine one one

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Speaker 1: call emerged after the body cam in moab Utah cops

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Speaker 1: body Kim. You see Gabby and Brian Laundry getting pulled

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Speaker 1: over after they jump to curb and she's crying, she's upset,

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Speaker 1: she's very distraught. He's calm, cool and collected. But just

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Speaker 1: before that there had been a nine one one call

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Speaker 1: where the mail caller says he sees Brian Laundry slapping

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Speaker 1: and hitting a girl, Gabby, as she's running up the

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Speaker 1: sidewalk and she's trying to get into the van. He

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Speaker 1: has gotten into the van, locked her out, and he

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Speaker 1: has a cell phone and apparently it's leaving her and

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Speaker 1: she's trying to desperately to get into the van. Now,

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Speaker 1: given what we know, what would you conclude is the

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Speaker 1: c O d Well. It seems to me, Nancy, that

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Speaker 1: just a set that he locked her out of the

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Speaker 1: van tells you something more is going on between the

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Speaker 1: two of them, and that they reported that he seemed

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Speaker 1: to be slapping her and hitting her. What's most failing

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Speaker 1: to me, even if you look at that the body

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Speaker 1: can and what went on between the two of them

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Speaker 1: when they were talking to the police, it's just what

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Speaker 1: you described. He's very calm, and she's taking total responsibility

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Speaker 1: to the fact they were pulled over, to the fact

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Speaker 1: that they were fighting, it's all her fault because of anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and that to me is very typical of somebody who's

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Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship, the woman who keeps taking responsibility,

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Speaker 1: blaming herself or what's happening, and has lost her sense

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Speaker 1: of self. And so I feel like maybe he did

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Speaker 1: actually lock her out of that van and left her there,

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Speaker 1: or they were fighting and he wound up killing her.

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Speaker 1: But I think that it has to have something to

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Speaker 1: do with him, just because of everything that we're hearing,

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Speaker 1: which reports of the hitting with the police pulling them over,

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Speaker 1: which lease me Cheryl McCollum, a director of coll Case

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Speaker 1: Research Institute, to make a calculated guess that this was

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Speaker 1: blunt force or strangulation because we know he hit her

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Speaker 1: in the face before, so he's already done that. Then

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Speaker 1: you know, is m let us OPERENDI jump in? Well,

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Speaker 1: we also know that there wasn't blood all over the van.

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Speaker 1: We know that there's I were looking to see what

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Speaker 1: was in that van, but also what was missing from

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Speaker 1: the van, such as was a tarp missing, where sheets missing,

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Speaker 1: But again law enforcing already knows that they've already searched

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Speaker 1: that we also know or they know we don't know yet,

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Speaker 1: but they know the state she was left in. So

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Speaker 1: some of these things have already been answered. But I

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Speaker 1: will tell you something that was critical to me. On

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Speaker 1: that tape of them when they were pulled over by

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. The last thing he says to the officer

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Speaker 1: is well, I was just because he says, have no

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Speaker 1: communication with each other. Sty' awave each other for the night.

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Speaker 1: And he says, well, I'm just going to text her

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Speaker 1: that I love her and don't contact me. That is

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Speaker 1: so passive aggressive, That is still so controlling. He's again,

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Speaker 1: even at that juncture in front of four police officers,

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Speaker 1: letting Gabby know I can text you, don't you text me?

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Speaker 1: He's still controlling the situation. Straight back out to Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: standing by at the Teton County Corners offices, Laura Ingles,

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Speaker 1: Senior correspondent for Foxnews joining us. Laura, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. What are your insights based

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Speaker 1: on where she was found? Do we know how she

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Speaker 1: was found? What's she closed? What's she buried? Was she

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Speaker 1: dragged to that location? What's she under a canopy of

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Speaker 1: trees or left out in the open, down a ravine

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Speaker 1: in water? What can we surmise so far, Laura. If anything,

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Speaker 1: so if you go back to looking at that tape

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Speaker 1: of that other camper that went down the road and

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Speaker 1: spotted the white van, that was that critical tip for

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Speaker 1: the FBI of where to pinpoint their search. If you

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Speaker 1: go back and you look at that area, and we

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Speaker 1: took some drone videos, so we go up and over

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Speaker 1: that area and you look at that spread creek. There's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful trickling water and pebbles, and there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of wide open spaces, which is super surprising to

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Speaker 1: me because when we find out in this tape where

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Speaker 1: her body was located, and it does appear from what

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Speaker 1: we've been told, and again the FBI has not said this,

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Speaker 1: the local police are not telling us, but from what

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Speaker 1: we have surmised from the evidence at the scene where

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Speaker 1: she was found where that stone cross was put out

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Speaker 1: by those streams, she was apparently left out in the open,

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Speaker 1: and somebody another reporter that was there yesterday said that

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Speaker 1: there were the orange spray marks of a spray can

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Speaker 1: of where the evidence markers were. So there was a log,

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Speaker 1: there were lots of rocks that were kind of strewn

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Speaker 1: about that had a lot of markings on them. We

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure, you know, we were everything was

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Speaker 1: closed off when they found her, and they put a

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Speaker 1: tent in a tarp over overheads so nobody could watch.

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Speaker 1: But it appears as though she was left out in

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Speaker 1: the elements for quite some time. And some further detail

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Speaker 1: from the Teton County Corner that we got this morning

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Speaker 1: again the autopsy being complete, but forensic testing ongoing. It

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Speaker 1: includes microscopic test and the toxicology. And we've been told

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Speaker 1: now that the samples from the remains were taken yesterday

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Speaker 1: for these tests, and the corner says they don't have

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Speaker 1: a time table on these test results, but it could

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Speaker 1: be coming back in days or weeks. We just don't know.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the thing about when we talk about

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Speaker 1: the relationship and what was noted in that bodycam footage

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Speaker 1: and what we've been talking about here, I also want

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Speaker 1: to add, so there was a nine one one call

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Speaker 1: from the person who witnessed the argument that the two had.

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Speaker 1: There was also a witness statement. It was not a

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Speaker 1: nine one one call, it was a statement given. So

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Speaker 1: there was somebody else that came forward to talk to police.

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Speaker 1: And you got to think, you think about all the

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Speaker 1: times that you've been out in a parking lot or

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Speaker 1: you may have heard something and you didn't call nine

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Speaker 1: one one. I mean, God bless these two people that

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Speaker 1: contacted the police and told them what they saw. And

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Speaker 1: when I read this report of this other witness, he

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Speaker 1: says that, you know, I observed a man and woman

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Speaker 1: appeared to have some sort of a fight. They were

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Speaker 1: talking aggressively with each other, and something seemed off. It

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Speaker 1: was that it was just something about the fight that

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Speaker 1: he saw. And this person I don't believe saw any physical,

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Speaker 1: real physical altercation like the person who called nine one one,

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Speaker 1: But for somebody to have that sense of something seemed off.

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Speaker 1: I need to raise my hand and say something is

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Speaker 1: really incredible and so important moving forward, you know, like

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Speaker 1: all of us to realize that information and think about

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Speaker 1: how you can help in the future Prime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Another thing we are learning and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to throw this to Cheryl McCollum, and I also want

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Speaker 1: to go back to doctor Preyer Banerjee and Dell Carson

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Speaker 1: regarding the quote microscopic tests that they are still conducting

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Speaker 1: on Gabby's body. But this is something else we're learning

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. Can you imagine you're out in the middle

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Speaker 1: of it where I told you that I took the twins,

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Speaker 1: David and I took the twins all the way out

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Speaker 1: there in an RV to the Tetons to Yellowstone across

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Speaker 1: the country. It's a trick. You're out there and you

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Speaker 1: get locked out of your van, which is your home,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have your phone. Because we are now

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Speaker 1: getting reports and I'm quoting wording too. A witness identified

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Speaker 1: as Chris miss Petito was such an ass Laundry way

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Speaker 1: he had to be so mean because Laundry fought quote

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Speaker 1: aggressively over her cell phone during the moab Utah argument.

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Speaker 1: He was fighting to get her cell phone. Why did

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Speaker 1: he need the van the key to the van. She's

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Speaker 1: locked out and he's trying to take her cell phone too.

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Speaker 1: What what was on that cell phone? We know she

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Speaker 1: had been texting her mother about their strained relationship as

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Speaker 1: the trip wore on. He wanted her to have no

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Speaker 1: contact with her family. He didn't want her to post anything,

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Speaker 1: send anything, call anybody that again is abuser one oh

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Speaker 1: one behavior Yeah. Started the domestic violence playbook straight out

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Speaker 1: of it Karen Storry joining me Psycho New York. When

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Speaker 1: I first started working at the Battered Women's Center as

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Speaker 1: a volunteer, we had to go to training, training, training,

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the first thing you hear in

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Speaker 1: every phone call. He tore the phone out of the wall,

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Speaker 1: he took my cell phone. He won't let me contact

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Speaker 1: my family. He gets mad, I want to speak to

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Speaker 1: my mother. Blah blah blah. It's all about not contacting

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Speaker 1: family and control. And here he is in the van.

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Speaker 1: He's got her locked out of the van. She's trying

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Speaker 1: to crawl over him through the driver's window, and they're

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Speaker 1: fineing because he won't give her her phone and it's

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Speaker 1: her van. And I have no doubt, Nancy, that that,

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Speaker 1: as I said before, that that had to have been

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Speaker 1: going on between the two. If you just watch what's happening,

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Speaker 1: what would make this policewoman say to her, maybe you

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Speaker 1: want to stay out of this relationship, maybe you want

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Speaker 1: to rethink this. She was picking up on the fact

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Speaker 1: that something was really wrong. He wants to cut up

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Speaker 1: all communication because he doesn't want her saying what's happened

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Speaker 1: the name. He doesn't want the family to have any

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Speaker 1: kind of control over her because it breaks his power,

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Speaker 1: and his power is to be in charge and to

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Speaker 1: make her feel life. There's something wrong with her. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: back on the East Coast, we've got Laura Angele Fox

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Speaker 1: seeing your news correspondent joining us outside the Teton County

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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, a coroner's office. Take listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at ABC seven. Back on the East Coast, five

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Speaker 1: hundred miles away from the Carlton Reserve, the search for

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Speaker 1: Brian Laundry took police Tuesday into Okaloosa County, Florida. A

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Speaker 1: resident in Baker notified police after capturing an image of

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Speaker 1: a man fitting Laundry's description on his trail camera on

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Speaker 1: September twentieth. The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office says they did

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Speaker 1: an extensive search of the area and found nothing of note.

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Speaker 1: When we asked the department if this could be considered

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Speaker 1: a sighting of Brian Laundry, a spokesperson said, until Brian

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Speaker 1: is located and in custody, the stability hasn't been ruled out.

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Speaker 1: At Brian's parents' home in Northport, Florida, all was quiet

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Speaker 1: Tuesday until the late afternoon, when Brian's father, Christopher Laundry,

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Speaker 1: left the house and returned a short time leader. I've

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Speaker 1: got so many questions. How did Laundry get out of

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Speaker 1: that house undetected by police and the press that have

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Speaker 1: had a ring of cameras, including staking out in the

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Speaker 1: backyard to go on his walk about. Was he ever there?

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt that he did, or I think

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Speaker 1: he did drive the van back okay from where it was,

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Speaker 1: or do one of the parents do it. Anyway, the

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Speaker 1: van edges into town about ten thirty am, coming off

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Speaker 1: I seventy five, and the tag is caught on a

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Speaker 1: tag grabber, so I know that. But once he's at

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Speaker 1: the home, we think September first, nobody's seen him. Did

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Speaker 1: he leave then, because he's got quite the lead on

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Speaker 1: the corps latest thing Dale Carson joining me out of Florida.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the Florida Panhandle where Alabama and Florida

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Speaker 1: curve around. My dad grew up in Hey Cody, which

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Speaker 1: is near Enterprise, which is near op which is near Mobile,

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Speaker 1: and we would spend every summer on the Florida Panhandle. Now,

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Speaker 1: did you know del Carson? I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: seen the shot yet or not. But somebody caught an

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Speaker 1: image on their deer cam, which is out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a forest land early morning around six am.

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Speaker 1: Looks just like Brian Laundry. And if you go to

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Speaker 1: crime online dot com right now, you'll see the comparison. There.

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Speaker 1: You see the backpack I'll call him the deer hunter

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Speaker 1: was wearing. The guy walking in front of the deer

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Speaker 1: cam looks just like Laundry. You see his backpack beside it.

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Speaker 1: You see a pick sure of his Bryan Laundry's backpack

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Speaker 1: sitting in gabbies van. They look the same. This is

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Speaker 1: the first time I think we may have a Laundry signing.

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Speaker 1: I've got to look at it more closely and try

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Speaker 1: to get that image enhanced. But tell me about Okaloosa

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Speaker 1: County Dale Carson. It is far west in Florida, and

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Speaker 1: it's all swamp and hardwoods out that way, which obviously

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Speaker 1: he's familiar with. The oddity is that it's about four

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Speaker 1: hundred and ninety miles from Northport. That's a long trek.

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Speaker 1: You certainly had to have assistance getting there and a

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Speaker 1: good head start. Absolutely he did have, and he could

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Speaker 1: well be in that area. But the odd thing is

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Speaker 1: he's got to have money for food and other purposes.

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Speaker 1: And where is that money coming from? Who's paying for that?

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have a job now, and they certainly didn't

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00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: say that money working as a tech in a pharmacy

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Speaker 1: or in publics. So where is this money coming from?

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Speaker 1: His parents? Let me ask you a question, Jackie. Can

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Speaker 1: you look up how far is it from a Mobile,

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Speaker 1: Alabama to Ocaloosa County, Florida. Okay, let's just I guess

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Speaker 1: what would be a good city spot in Ocaloosa County?

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Speaker 1: Would you say Fort Walton or Destiny Walton. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: go with from Mobile to Fort Walton because there was

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Speaker 1: another siding. Let me let me go back to Laura

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Speaker 1: Ingle Fox Music Senior correspondent, joining us from Teton County

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Speaker 1: Emmy's Office Coroner's office. There's a difference between a corner

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Speaker 1: and an Emmy, Laura. For all I know, he's been

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Speaker 1: one hundred and two miles, Laura. I think it was

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Speaker 1: the day before there was an alleged sighting of Brian

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Speaker 1: Laundry in and around Mobile, Alabama. And now we have

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Speaker 1: an alleged signing on the deer cam in the county

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Speaker 1: that's only one hundred miles. You know, last night we

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Speaker 1: all all of us here, all the reporters and producers,

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Speaker 1: our phones were going off. There was reports of this

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Speaker 1: police scanner possible Brian laundry siting, and everybody was looking

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Speaker 1: into it. We all called the police, reached out to family,

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Speaker 1: and everybody heard the same thing. And it was that

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Speaker 1: glimmer of hope. But then it was discounted, just like

427
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: the other one. And you know, somebody said that they

428
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: need to you know, when we're looking at men who

429
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: have lost their hair and who are of his height,

430
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: who are walking around with a backpack. There's a lot

431
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: of people that fit that description in the United States

432
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: right now, so you know, it's important to call those

433
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: tips in. But it did give everybody a flutter of

434
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 1: hope yesterday, and it is important to note. I mean,

435
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: we've been talking about it that the FBI continues to

436
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: ask people about calling in tips if you were in

437
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: this area, and the one thing I want to mention,

438
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you had RVV here. I have

439
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: never been here. It's the most spectacular, beautiful place you've

440
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: ever seen, and it is packed. All of the hotels,

441
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: no vacancy. It is absolutely swarming with campers and hikers

442
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: and people taking pictures, and that is what they're looking for.

443
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: They're looking for people obviously everywhere, but it's specifically here

444
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: because they want to see if they can follow any

445
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: kind of lead from any kind of siting, and certainly

446
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: before the alleged crime occurred and after so that they

447
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: can find out maybe which way he went. You know,

448
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: when you look at that van video from that YouTuber

449
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: and you can going down the road and you see

450
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: it somebody backed up that. I don't know if you've

451
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: seen this video, but somebody backed it up a few

452
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: seconds before and you can see the van doors closing.

453
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: They were open, you can see them closing, and then

454
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: and then the woman drives by and see spots the van,

455
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: so we you know, it needs to be authenticated. But

456
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: if that's the case, then they somebody was in the

457
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: van and we've seen her flip flops outside of the van.

458
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: You know that that timeline is just all so important.

459
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: But for people just need to continue to call in

460
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: those tips crime stories with Nancy Grace, Laura Angle, I

461
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: find that very critical what you just said. I had

462
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: read a report where the witness saw the back of

463
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: the van door close abruptly, is how it was described.

464
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: Could you repeat that really slowly for me, because I'm

465
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: furiously taking notes on everything you say, everybody, Laura Angle

466
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: joining me there in Wyoming, about what, who where, why? When?

467
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: Who saw it? Where when? And it's significant to me

468
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: because they went when they went by the vein, it

469
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: looked as if it were abandoned. So if the doors

470
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: right shut, then why why are they basically hiding in

471
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: there with all the lights off and no movement? You

472
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: tell it, Laura Angle, really slowly for me. Well, what

473
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: happens is is this woman and we've had her on

474
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: our air and a lot of people have interviewed her.

475
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: You may have too, from the Red, White and Bassoon.

476
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: She's the YouTube insider who provided this critical tip. And

477
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: when you go to the before and after zoomed in

478
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: stills that are seconds apart, it happens really really fast,

479
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: so irv too, and so like you put your you

480
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: put your GoPro on the dash and you you know,

481
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: you take these beautiful pictures of what your trails look

482
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: like in the road to go to your campsite. And

483
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: that's what this woman did. And what we have seen

484
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: repeatedly in the news coverage is that slowed down there's

485
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: the white van if particular campground in the dispersed area, which,

486
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: as we now have all learned, that means that, you know,

487
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: you just pull off. It's not a campsite that you

488
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: go and you sign up for. But when they backed

489
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: up that tape, somebody slowed it down and took some stills.

490
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: The back of the van doors were open, and as

491
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: the vehicles approaching with this YouTube blogger coming down the road,

492
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the back doors quickly shut close.

493
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: Now had anything happened at that point, we don't know,

494
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: but it is an indication that that van wasn't abandoned.

495
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: It was that there was somebody in it. We just

496
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, did a crime occur before during after,

497
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: We just don't know. But I can tell you that

498
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: our cameraman, one of them, went over to the site

499
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: yesterday and we were talking about where the body was

500
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: in proximity to where that van was spotted. So it

501
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: goes Van Brush Creek and then on the other side

502
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: of the creek is where her body was found reportedly

503
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: by a log So the idea that she had had

504
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: been just put on the other side of a log

505
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: is just heartbreaking. And again the activity and the weather

506
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: and the heat and the cold, and now they've they've

507
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: opened up that campsite, and that's the other part that

508
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: still I find. I guess you have to open it

509
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: up at some point, but people are just walking around,

510
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: they know that that's where she was found, and they

511
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: had to open it back up. But getting back to

512
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: the doors, I mean, you see those doors open, and

513
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 1: they're open, then they're shut quickly. You should look at

514
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: the tape because it's it's pretty dramatic. Hold on, hold on,

515
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: Delle Carson. So I got to clarify something Laura Engle

516
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: just told me. So I understand it. So you've got

517
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: Gabby's van, and then to the left of the van

518
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: is the brush, then the creek. Then on the other

519
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: side of the creek you have Gabby's body found by

520
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: a log. Or is it to the right of the man.

521
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that it was to the left. That's

522
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: the photo. I say, that's what I saw from the

523
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: video too, but I wanted to make sure because the

524
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: YouTuber Red White mteen driving along and the vans on

525
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: the left and there's a cree to the left. But

526
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure I didn't have it reverse somehow,

527
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, when it goes on TV days get twisted around. Okay,

528
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: got it. Dell Carson, high profile lawyer, Jacksonville, former FBI

529
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: agent jump in. There's another point here. The van life

530
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: people keep all their doors open, and they spend a

531
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: lot of time with the doors open so they can

532
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: see the view, and they park in areas where they

533
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: can get that view, and that none of that happened here,

534
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: and it's unusual to have people living in a van

535
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: keep it all closed up, particularly when the weather is

536
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: not inclement. So that about is Cheryl McCollum jump in.

537
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: I think it's important to the timing, the date that

538
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: this happened and relationship to where her body was found.

539
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty much a to B what was the date

540
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: Laura Angle. Did we have a range of dates that

541
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: Red White and Bethune made the video or do we

542
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: have it narrowed down to one particular day, not only

543
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: particular day, particular time August twenty seventh, about six pm.

544
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: So that is and that is what helps authorities get

545
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: over to that area and say, okay, here's the campsite,

546
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: here's our bulls eye. You know, the van was gone

547
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: when they got there, but this is where they started.

548
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: And then they spread out and you know, went out

549
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: into a circle and just did a grid search around there.

550
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, August twenty seven, six pm. And that is

551
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: why the FBI continues to say, if you were in

552
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: this area between August twenty seventh August thirtieth, anywhere in

553
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: this timeframe, we want to see your photos. Did you

554
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: take a photo by that pretty creek and what's in

555
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: the background. That's what they're looking for, because you know

556
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: Floura angle. If one person is taking a photo out camping,

557
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, everybody's going to that same spot.

558
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: If I take a photo, I had some great photos

559
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: of us in the Tetons, I don't know where. All

560
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I didn't even see these people on

561
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: a hiking trail. All of sudden they're taking the same

562
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: the same shot, and I do the same thing. I

563
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: see people taking your photo, I'm like, oh, that must

564
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: be a good VISTI I'm running over there, same thing,

565
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: and they're right, anybody there if you took a shot

566
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: along this creek, who knows what could be in the background.

567
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: I broke in on you, shar I'm McCall and what

568
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: were you saying. I'm just saying again, where the van was,

569
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: where her body was. That's a to b as the

570
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: crow files again, they're going to be able to see

571
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: drag marks, They're going to be able to see items

572
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: on her body from foliage and that dirt or soul.

573
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: When was the fake text? Anybody remember the fake text

574
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: about no I believe thank you, Laura, twenty eight or

575
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 1: thirtieth that we get the fake to so and that's

576
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: the one where it says no sales service Yosemite. Yes, right, okay,

577
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: no Carson you want in Yeah, Well that's exactly right.

578
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: That that particular transmission came from full much for the West,

579
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: which doesn't make sense because of course he didn't travel

580
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: that way, or that van did not travel back that way,

581
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: because that would require them to take the phone almost

582
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: to San Francisco. I'm sorry, La, is there any possibility

583
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: someone else drove the van back and not him? Laura Angele, Well, sure,

584
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's what they're looking for. And when

585
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: we're following along the path and you look at the

586
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: areas that somebody would have driven the van. I mean

587
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: those toll cameras, the gas stations, and there's and there's

588
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: all this chatter with the citizen detectives out there on

589
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: on all of these social media platforms, and the pictures

590
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: of his tattoos on his fingers and on his hands,

591
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: everybody's look for people pumping gas that might have this tattoo.

592
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: They'd go back in your in your memory, even your

593
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: pictures there. But hopefully their surveillance pictures of the van

594
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: had had to get gas at some point. And that's

595
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: you know what doctor Michael Boden told us last night

596
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: was in terms of the DNA testing, they got to

597
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: do it at all signs point to Brian, But you know,

598
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: is there a third party DNA? Probably not, but they

599
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: have to look at it. Doctor Trea, what do they mean?

600
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: What did Lord Engleman when she said medical examiners now

601
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: looking for microscopic evidence? What do they mean by that?

602
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: Fibers DNA? They would look for any kind of trace

603
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: evidence on the body. You know, that's just integral to

604
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: the autopsy. And then when I think microscopic, maybe they

605
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: are trying to look better at the tissues under the

606
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: microscope itself. You know, Fancy, I gotta jump in here.

607
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: Good job. The dirt and soul is going to be critical.

608
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: So when you think of a top layer, that top

609
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: layer of full is different than when you get down

610
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: to the subsole. So when that you know part of

611
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: the earth has been cut through that ravine, the dirt

612
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: on top where she would have started and where she

613
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: ended up is different. And they're mighty those samples of

614
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: the different parts of her body to show she didn't

615
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: walk or jump or slip. They've got to determine too,

616
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: whether or not she was sexfully assaulted before she was killed.

617
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: That's another important aspect that we've overlooked altogether. Karen Stark

618
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: final thought, well, I think that if you take a look, Nancy,

619
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: it's just incredible how people are so engaged in this

620
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: case and relate to it and think this could happen

621
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: to me, this could happen to my child. That they

622
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: were chronicling everything that was happening, that Gabby was doing that,

623
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: and in the way, I feel like it's a message

624
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: from Gadby to keep searching to her story for someone

625
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: to figure this out. And it's just incredibly amazing. Wonderful

626
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: that everyone's trying. So many people are trying to figure

627
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: out what happened to her. This is why we know

628
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: now Brian Laundry on the run, multiple sidings. Are they real?

629
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: As Gabby's body remains the Tea Time County Morgue, We

630
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. It's not over yet. If you

631
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: think you have information, dial one eight hundred, call FBI

632
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: one eight hundred, two two five five three two four.

633
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,