1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 2 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right, 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: and enjoy the episode. This is Wintertime, a song off 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: Nora Jones's album that came out this past spring. Begin Again, 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell and Bruce had them of absolutely fallen in 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: love with this tune. Wilco's frontman, Jeff Tweety started writing 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: it some time ago before discarding it somewhere along the way. 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: During a recording session with Nora Jones. The two of 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: them picked it back up and brushed it off together 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: to make this In case you don't remember, Nora Jones 14 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: had a massive hit seventeen years ago with her debut 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: single Don't Know Why, which has basically become a standard 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: in the American songbook thanks to her minimalist performance. After that, 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: she did a run of solo albums, but also did 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: a lot of collaborating a song with Ray Charles, the 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: song with Willie Nelson, whole albums with producer Danger Mouse, 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: but recently, Nora's discovered a new way of collaborating. She 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: talks with Malcolm and Bruce about why this new way 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: feels so good. She also takes a seat at the 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: piano and plays through some of the new songs on 24 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: her record, and also talks about some of the ways 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: she coped with her son and fame in two thousand 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: and two. This is Broken Record Season three, liner notes 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here is Malcolm 28 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: and Bruce's conversation with Nora Jones from Bridge Studio in Brooklyn. 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Bruce and I are mildly obsessed with wintertime, and we 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: thought we would start there, not the season, the song, 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: not the season. We want to go as deep as 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: you want to go on that and where it comes 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: from and how you went about writing it, and well, 34 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to disappoint you too much on that one. 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: But I went to record with Jeff Tweetie in Chicago 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: and which was really amazing and fun. We wrote several 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: songs together and this was one that he sort of 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: had the scraps already, yeah, lying around, so we picked 39 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: it up and dusted it off and tweaked it and 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: put some clothes on it and changed it around, and 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: then it sort of came even there. I have another questions, 42 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: when did you first meet Jeff Tweetie. It must be 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: at least ten or fifteen years ago, probably no more, 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: because I think I met him for the first time 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: on my first record when I did the Jewels Holland Show, 46 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: so that must have been two thousand and two. Gosh. Yeah, 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: it's been a long time. And Wilco did it as well. 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: And I was already a fan because that was right 49 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: when Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was out, and over the years, 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: I've just sort of seen him around a lot. We 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: worked with a lot of the same people and we've 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: always been really friendly. Wilco had me and my band 53 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: put some boots come hang out with them when they 54 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: open up for Neil. They let us sit in on 55 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: Jesus et cetera, which was really fine. That must have 56 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: been fun, yeah, which you've done too, which we covered. Yeah, 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: So we covered Jesus et Cetera in this band a 58 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: man called Puss and Boots, Sasha top Set and Katherine 59 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: Popper and myself and we did the Bridge School with 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: them one year and and Cat and Sasha are pretty saucy, 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: and Cat goes up to Tweety and says, hey, dude, 62 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: are you going to do Jesus et cetera in your set? 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, no, no, we might do that. 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: And she's like, well, we're pooting in in our set 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: and we're going first. So so we literally just like 66 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: went ahead and play their song before they went on. 67 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: We just enjoyed each other's like kind of rimming each 68 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: other after that. Yeah, no, is that? So there's two 69 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: categories here. There are categories of people that you're fans 70 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: of and categories of people that you want to work with. 71 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: Are they the same or are they different? Well, I 72 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: think in making lists of collaborating with people, because this 73 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to do right now is just 74 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: do these singles and work with different people and with 75 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: low pressure stakes, you know, like just one song. It's 76 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: the only goal. And I figured out that, yes, they 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: are different. I can be a fan of someone and 78 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: have no idea how to insert myself into their world 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: or them into mine. Yeah, that doesn't mean it can't 80 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: happen once you get in the room. It might be 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: totally magical, But unless I have some kind of an 82 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: idea of something I want to try. Then I'm not 83 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: going to just reach out somebody and said let's go 84 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: get in a room and just stare at each other. 85 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's easier. I can imagine. It's not hard 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: for me to understand that you would listen to Will 87 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: go and meet Jeff Tweety and say, oh, that makes sense. Yeah, 88 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we should probably do a record 89 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: together at some point. And it was so fun and 90 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, we both play enough of enough instruments to 91 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: sort of just have the two of us with the drummer. 92 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: His son, Spencer Tweety was playing drums, and we did 93 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: all the stuff with just the three of us, and 94 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: that kind of recording is really fun. So you have 95 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: this idea now that you want to do these kind 96 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: of one offs with people that are where did that? 97 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: How did you come to that? It's really it sounds 98 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 1: like a really really but I'm surprised that more people 99 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: don't do that. But I'm well, I think a lot 100 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: of people do do it, but they don't like call 101 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: it what it is. Maybe, But it was actually my 102 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: husband's idea. He was saying, you have all these resources 103 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: to do something easy like this, why don't you do it? 104 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: It's like, gosh, why don't I that's a great idea 105 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: and what a fun way to just make music. I 106 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: have little kids, you know, I don't want to My 107 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: attention span is very short, just like everybody's nowadays. But 108 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really fun to be musical and 109 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: be doing things and have it come out quicker than 110 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: if you do a full album, you know, and that's 111 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: why is sort of the nature of the internet and everything. 112 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's good. But now you've questioned, why 113 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: is it easier to work with someone who you may 114 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: know as a friend but haven't actually worked before than 115 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: it is to work with someone who you've been writing 116 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: songs with the making music with for ten years. Well, 117 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: for me, I mean I don't like to take a 118 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: long time to record music or write songs or I 119 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: mean I'll think about a song if it's not done. 120 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: You know it's not done and you want to tweak it. 121 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: But you know, some people go in and they take 122 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: three years to make an album. That's not how. I 123 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: get bored and I want to move on to something else. 124 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: So for me, I mean, it's fun three days in 125 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: a studio with someone, it's plenty to get one song, 126 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: and in all these cases we've gotten three to seven 127 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: songs each session, which has been great, and maybe not 128 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: all of them are amazing, but it's really fun. It's 129 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: just a fun way to work. It's low pressure to 130 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: get somebody to commit to something, somebody who maybe I 131 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: don't know that well or is very busy, I don't know. 132 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: For me, it's not scary so much as it is 133 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: it has been a little bit stressful because there have 134 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: been many of these sessions where I've gone in and 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: I'm so underprepared. I'm like, Okay, I don't really have 136 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: a full song at all in case we can't come 137 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: up with anything, because I try to have something in case, 138 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, we're drawing blanks in there. What is what 139 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: is another day? Dumb question? What is something? I have 140 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: all these voice memos on my phone, you know that 141 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: I make in the batstub because that's the only piece 142 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: in quiet I get. And you know, some of them 143 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: are just like a small snippet of a melody. It's 144 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: like na da da da da da, whatever it is. 145 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: And sometimes those little somethings stick in my head for 146 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: months or years and I'll go back to them. And 147 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: that's like when I worked with Thomas Bartlett, that's all 148 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: I had was I had a few lyrics and I 149 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: had a few melodies, and we just turned them into 150 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: songs in the studio. And I guess my point is, like, 151 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm a little stressed and underprepared when I'm going 152 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: into these sessions, but I know and I have faith 153 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: in the process and that when I get into the 154 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: studio and I can focus and like all the noise 155 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: isn't surrounding me and I'm with somebody who inspires me 156 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: and hopefully they are the same, then it happens and 157 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, we haven't gotten nothing yet. Yeah, I'll 158 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: say that how many how many ideas would you have 159 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: on your phone right now? Right now, I'm pretty dry, 160 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: but I have a lot of old ideas. Yeah, so 161 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: you can't change phones because you're well, yeah, exactly, you're 162 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: locked in. I'm locked in. Yeah, I missed my own 163 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: voice recorder. Sometimes what's the longest time that's a lapse 164 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: between a stippet of an idea and a song It 165 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: actually appeared on an album. There's a song I wrote 166 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: with this friend Ilhan Risanna used to be in a 167 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: band called wax Poetic when I first moved to New 168 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: York in like nineteen ninety nine, and we wrote this 169 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: song together and that band didn't make another album and 170 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: it kind of petered out and it continued without me. 171 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: I wasn't in it anymore. But then I kind of 172 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: dug up that song and put it on my third 173 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: out about So that's how many years I have you beat? 174 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: Because I just did that podcast episode that was inspired 175 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: by an interview that I did in nineteen ninety two. Wow, 176 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: And I thought about it for that long, For twenty 177 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: five years, I always wanted to do something and finally 178 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: did it. So I love other words. My point is, 179 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: you know you can revisit the stuff when you're as 180 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: old as I am. Yeah, these ideas don't really leave 181 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: your sort of being until they become something. But I 182 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: think for a lot of people listening to old ideas, 183 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: it would make them intensely uncomfortable because they would hear 184 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: the mistakes, the things that aren't so good. Are you 185 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: like that at all? Can you can you turn off 186 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: whatever critical voice you have that? Yeah, I'm not too 187 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: critical of myself because I learned when I. When I 188 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: first my first record came out, I had just started 189 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: writing songs because that voice I could not turn off 190 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: until then. I wrote songs in high school and they 191 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: were so horrible. I was so embarrassed and I never 192 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: wanted to do it again. Did you perform them? Well, Like, 193 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: I went to this performing arts high school, which was amazing, 194 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: and so we were all very encouraged. So like it 195 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: ended up on the you know, the high school tape. 196 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: So yeah, I you know, it was out there and 197 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: I was like, I want to put it back in. 198 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: I don't like it, but yeah, when you're young, that 199 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: stuff can be a little embarrassing, and so I definitely 200 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: shut down. And then I got into songwriting. When I 201 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: moved to New York. I only had two two and 202 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: a half songs on my first album because I was 203 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: really new at it. And then after that, after a 204 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: couple of albums, I got more and more into it. 205 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: And then I got really kind of down on myself 206 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: and frustrated. And then I had this whole thing with songwriting, 207 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: and I finally realized I don't have to show anybody anything. 208 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: Just finish the damn song, do as much as you 209 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: want to and make it as cheesy as it is 210 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: or whatever, and then in the end you can discard it. 211 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to show the world if you don't 212 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: like it, but see it through. That's a good lesson 213 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: for It's a good lesson for a lot of things, 214 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: but especial. But that's what kind of freed you up to, 215 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: kind of freed me up. Yeah, because you did start 216 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: writing after you became famous. I started writing more, yeah, yeah. 217 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: And you learned the guitar yeah, after you became famous. 218 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: So that takes a nerve. I mean for me, I 219 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: was just trying to stay inspired. The fame and the 220 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: kind of crazy whirlwind that was my first record. It 221 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: took a lot of took a lot away from like 222 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: the point, which was staying inspired and making music I 223 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: really loved. You know, were you working with somebody in 224 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: the kind of pairings that you're describing now, how often 225 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: do they make you realize you may have been wrong 226 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: about something, like you're talking about how you have these 227 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: old things and sometimes they don't work. How often does 228 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: the second voice in a room say, wait a minute, 229 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: that does work. I love it when that happens. That's 230 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: my favorite thing. It does happen. Yeah, it happens sometimes. 231 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: You know, when you get in a room with somebody 232 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: you're like, well, I have this idea. It might be stupid, 233 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: or like it's your nature to be self mine anyway, 234 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: to be self deprecating, and I be like checking out 235 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: this awesome idea. But you know, like, oh, I don't know, 236 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: is this dumb? Check this out? No, that's not dumb. 237 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: That's like what you want to hear for sure. Yeah, 238 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: or their particular collaborators who are just good at that, 239 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: at hearing things that you don't hear. Brian Burton, I 240 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: mean Danger Mouse is he's really good at that. He's 241 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: amazing at it. And not only musically he has hooks 242 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: for days, but also lyrically, he's really good at it. 243 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: He was someone I was really self conscious, Like, I 244 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: wasn't nervous about the project, but when it came down 245 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: to lyrics sometimes I was sort of nervous to show 246 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: him my lyrics sometimes because it was very it was 247 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: all very personal. Lyrics are very different than showing a 248 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: musical idea. They're way more exposed, I think, and naked, 249 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: especially for some one who's a little late to the 250 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: lyric party. You know, so I was definitely more self 251 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: conscious showing him my lyrics, and I don't know that 252 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: he was, but his lyrics were really great. The more 253 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: we wrote together, the more self conscious like out because 254 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: I realized his lyrics were so great. But I was 255 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: also very comfortable with him, so I thought, well, he's 256 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: like my big brother. Let's let's just do this. But 257 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: he's really good at that. Is there a song that 258 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: comes to mind from your collaboration with him that you 259 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: think is so the best example of the two of 260 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: you rook and you get. The whole album was super collaborative. Yeah, 261 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of like scraps that were brought 262 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: to the table as much as you know some other things, 263 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: but lyrically, like, I've been going back and I love 264 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: playing songs from that album. Sometimes there's songs from old 265 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: albums that I just that I still like but I 266 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: don't really connect with at this moment in time. Doesn't 267 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: mean I won't again, it doesn't mean I never have. 268 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: But that's how playing live, that's kind of how it goes. 269 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: Pick songs that you're connecting with in the moment, and 270 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: some of the songs when I throw them into the 271 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: set from that record. It's like, whoa, these lyrics are 272 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: so great. I'm so happy, you know. Yeah, We've been 273 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: doing a song called stay Goodbye and the lyrics are 274 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: really good. I think, do you try and do it 275 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: in thee because I had that album had such a 276 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: great sounds. It's his sound, that's him, Yeah, And I 277 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: don't mean that like he makes the same sound over. No, 278 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: he's a little like Brian Eno. He's sort of it's 279 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: like he's created a little universe somewhere that you kind 280 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: of flowed into. Do you try and kind of reproduce 281 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: that on stage or do you do it in a 282 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: different setting? I did more and when we toured that album, 283 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: and we had a great band who could do it 284 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: without it being contrived, you know, like we only had 285 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: it was a five piece band. It was me, a keyboard, 286 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: organ player, guitar, bass, and drums. It wasn't like it 287 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: wasn't like we were obsessed with recreating the album sound, 288 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: but we did a good job of doing it. Now, however, 289 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm really into stripping it back a little bit and 290 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: not trying to recreate it. And I'm into rearranging some things, 291 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: and especially with that album because the soundscape was so specific. 292 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: Unless it's a natural thing for me to recreate live, 293 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: I'd rather not try to be married to the sounds 294 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: and just serve the song, because they're great songs even 295 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: without all that. And that's the great thing about that album. 296 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: When we come back, Malcolm and Bruce picked back up 297 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: with their obsession with the song winter Time that Noah 298 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: wrote with Wilco's Jeff Tweety. We're back with more from 299 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: Nora Jones. So, Jeff Tweety, do you call him upet 300 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: hey tweet? Calm tweet? No, you're just kidding. How did you? Who? 301 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: How did you? I want to? I want, I want, 302 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: I want the absolute details on this. You just call 303 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: him out of the blue and said, hey, let's work together. Well, 304 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Tweety, I used to have his phone number, but 305 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: he stopped returning my my text and then I got 306 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: this text once from him, like I hadn't heard from 307 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: him in two years. He's like, hey, I just got 308 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: all your texts. I'm sorry. I didn't really check my 309 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: phone much. I was like, dude, that's fine, but that 310 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: was like a long time ago. But so I didn't 311 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: know if I had his inphone anymore. But yeah, Tom 312 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: Shick is a great engineer who I used to work 313 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: with in New York a lot, and he moved to 314 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: Chicago to be Jeff's house engineer at his studio and 315 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: he so Tom's an old friend of mine. So I 316 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: had just told Tom, I said, Hey, here's what I'm 317 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: trying to do. See if Tweety's into it. I would 318 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: love to do this with you and him, because that 319 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: would be a dream to go to Chicago, check out 320 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: the studio, finally work with Tom again and work with Jeff. 321 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: Let's keep going on this narrative. Show up, you're you 322 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: walk in? Do you what do you have with you 323 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: when you enter the studio to work with Jeff Tweety. 324 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: I had a couple of scraps. I was very underprepared, 325 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: but I had I had a couple little tiny ideas. 326 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: One of them was completely written santaneously on the couch, 327 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: and that's the version that's recorded pretty much. It's called 328 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: song with No Name, and we were just sitting I 329 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: think that's the first thing we did the first day. 330 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: We were both kind of shy, even though we knew 331 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be. I think he was a little shy 332 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: and I was a little shy about just jumping in 333 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: and giving all our ideas. You know, we're sensitive people, 334 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: we're artists, right, So we're just sitting on the couch. 335 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: He has a collection in sane collection of guitars, so 336 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: I just picked one up and it was tuned really weird, 337 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: and so we both just started playing. I'm not a 338 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: great guitar player, but like, it's just a little acoustic part, 339 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: and he and I just both started playing this part together. 340 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: And Tom is such an amazing person to work with 341 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: because he just had a mic set up and he 342 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: just breast record and so we just started playing it 343 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: and then I started like and then I started singing, 344 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: and I was just singing gibberish words that were just 345 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: coming to me, and it was cool. And then, you know, 346 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: three days later we went back to listen to that 347 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: because we kind of moved on and started doing the 348 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: real stuff. And then Tom was like, checked this out 349 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: from the first day and it was awesome, and we 350 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: both really loved it, and we added a bunch of 351 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: other instruments to it, and we just kept exactly what 352 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: we had done on the couch. There was one lyric 353 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: I remember thinking I was like, Tom, I wish I 354 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: could change that lyric. He's like, well, you can't really 355 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: change it unless it sounds really similar, and we double 356 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: your vocal and you could kind of flub it. But 357 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: because it was just we were on the cauch, we 358 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: were all singing, and we was singing with the guitars 359 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: and everything, so I just left it. But how much 360 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: when you first start was everything made up in the 361 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: room on the couch of that song? Yes, melody and 362 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: lyrics and the main guitar party, yes, yeah. And when 363 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: you start that process of improvisation the very first iteration, 364 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: how much do you have? Do you have? Like ten seconds? 365 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: Do you have twenty seconds? When you first said it? 366 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: When it first comes to you. Well, we started doing it. 367 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how much he recorded before 368 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: we sort of had the take, but probably we were 369 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: playing like five minutes, maybe you just playing the part 370 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: and I was humming along. And then he's like, all right, 371 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: well let's just try one with what you have. And 372 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: then and then it started and what's he what's Jeff 373 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: Tweedy doing when you're you're humming and playing on the couch. 374 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: So he's playing on the couch thing as well. Yeah, yeah, 375 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: he's a beautiful guitar player. So yeah, well that's the 376 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: thing about these collaborations, like I might have nothing and 377 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: be kind of panic what if we get nothing, But 378 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: then you sit with somebody who's inspiring, and it's just 379 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: it's beautiful. I mean, I guess he's so and he's 380 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: so incredibly prolific and it has been so that way 381 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: for so long that I guess there's no anxieties about 382 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: him drawing up blank No. And it was interesting because 383 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: I had this one idea because the way I work 384 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: in the studio, the way I worked with Brian, and 385 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: the way I have worked recently is sort of just like, 386 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: let's write it all down. Okay, what about this idea? 387 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: What about this? And I had this one idea and 388 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: we started this other song that again has not been released, 389 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: but he really wanted to take it home. He said, 390 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: I do my best lyrics tweaking when I'm like at 391 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: four in the morning. I'll go to bed and then 392 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: he says, he wakes up and he does it and 393 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: then he goes back to bed. Really, and I was like, okay, 394 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: but I'm dying to do it now. I want to 395 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: do it right now, you know, I was kind of like, ah, 396 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: but I was super happy to have him do it. 397 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: I didn't. It wasn't that I needed to be part 398 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: of it or control it. I was just impatient, you know. 399 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: Did he show up the next day, showed up the 400 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: having done that. I think it was on wintertime. He 401 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: tweaked some stuff. But yeah, and then there was this 402 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: other song where I actually did that because I think 403 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: he kind of inspired me a little bit, and so 404 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: and then this other song I had done it. I 405 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: didn't wake up before I am, but I did it 406 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: before I came here. Now do you Typically, once you've 407 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: got a melody, your melody, and then words later, not 408 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: really no, Usually melody words come together, at least some words, 409 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: and then those words are so cemented in the melody 410 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: it's impossible to remove them. It's like really hard to 411 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: change the lyrics. But sometimes there's a melody that has 412 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: no words, and sometimes more recently and not in the 413 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: past for me, but more recently, I've had a lot 414 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: of words with no melodies. But usually it's both and 415 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: then they kind of you kind of I don't know. 416 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: It's easier to kind of morph morph from a lyric 417 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: melody that's already married, is it hard? Once you've got 418 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: the words to come up with a melody, then it's 419 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: really fun to find a melody for like a poem 420 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: or a lyric, because I've done that with other people's 421 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: words before and it is very freeing. It seems more free. 422 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: But when you have a melody and you're trying to 423 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: fit lyrics to those nooks and crannies, that is definitely hard, 424 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: harder unless it's just already kind of inspired with it. 425 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: We did an interview with Linda Perry, who worked with 426 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: Dolly Partner. I don't know who you've worked with Dolly Parton, 427 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: and she told this amazing story. They did I guess 428 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: six songs for the Dumpling soundtrack and they worked all 429 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: these songs then, and Dolly partner the whole time as well. 430 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: I don't write much anymore really, so anyway, she went back. 431 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: She wrote the lyrics to all six songs in one day. 432 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Who did Linda did, no, No, she just went ahead 433 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: and she's like, all right, I'm Dolly, I got this. Yeah, 434 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: And they were I don't know they were. They're fabulous. 435 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: Of course, she's an amazing songwriter writing is a weird thing. 436 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: I used to get freaked out because they didn't have 437 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: any ideas or wasn't inspired, and I didn't have anything happening. 438 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: And I have a lot of really close friends who 439 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: are songwriters, and sometimes I see them go this through 440 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: the same thing. But I've seen myself go in and 441 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: out of it, and it's like something always happens. Eventually. 442 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: You go through phases. You go through phases where you're 443 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: not writing, and then you go through phases where you're 444 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: writing a lot. And sometimes I wasn't in between, but 445 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: it's nice to not freak out when you're not because 446 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: you know it'll eventually come again. Did you listen to 447 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: a lot of country music growing up? Yeah, I mean 448 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: my mom is from Oklahoma, so my grandparents and my 449 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: mom absolutely I grew up on Willie Nelson and Bob 450 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: Wills and men, Linda Ronstadt and a lot of great music. 451 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I moved to New York when 452 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: I was twenty that I kind of realized, oh, yeah, 453 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: I love that music. I didn't really think about myself 454 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: as ever singing that kind of music. And then I 455 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: moved to New York and I was like I'm from Texas. 456 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: People give me some, give me some three chord songs. 457 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: And then when I started writing songs, I started writing 458 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: on guitar because I lived in a tiny shoe box 459 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: in the East Village. I didn't have a piano, and 460 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: all those jazz chords that I had learned in high 461 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: school and college that I love so much, I sure 462 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: didn't know how to play those on guitar. I knew 463 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: like five chords on guitar. So the first song I 464 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: wrote when I moved to New York and I finally 465 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: got out of my head and it was probably four 466 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: in the morning, and I wrote come Away with Me, 467 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: which is really just a few chords, and it's really 468 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: kind of a country song. I mean, that's sort of 469 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: what it is. And I wrote it on guitar and 470 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: I can barely play it. So it would have happened 471 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: if you'd moved to Nashville and not New York. No, right, 472 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: I don't know. I probably would have gone full like 473 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: anti country. I don't know. I don't know, or I 474 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: would have gone full country. You were born in New York, yeah, 475 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: and then your mother moved to We moved to Dallas 476 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: when I was four because she was from Oklahoma and 477 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: her dad sick. I don't know why we moved, actually, 478 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: but I feel very from Texas. But yeah, I was 479 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: born in New York and I moved back here when 480 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: I was twenty. She's something of a character. She was 481 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: in the music business. Did she just have a lot 482 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: of records that you could listen to? She was a 483 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: music fan. I mean, yeah, she did. I grew up 484 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: listening to Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin and old country music, 485 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: Judy Garland and Brazilian music. She lived in Brazil when 486 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 1: she was in her early twenties, and she had all 487 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: these great Brazilian records. Do you remember a first record 488 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: or two that kind of from her? Whatever got you 489 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: interested in being a musician? Well, she she was always 490 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: playing Aretha Franklin and at Christmas she would always play 491 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: like Luciano Pavarotti. And we went to church. We would 492 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: when we moved to I mean, I don't remember much 493 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: about New York because I was three or four when 494 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: we left. But when we moved to Texas, we started 495 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: going to this Methodist church and I joined the church choir, 496 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: and the choir teacher was a former Catholic so we 497 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: were singing all these Latin hymns, which was very funny 498 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: for this text as a Methodist church. But so that's 499 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: kind of where I got my start, and I think 500 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: she recognized my joy in music, and she got a 501 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: piano and got me piano lessons and stuff. I want 502 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: to go back to Jeff Tweedy into wintertime. I still 503 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: want to know about So you said something at the 504 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: very beginning that he had a few discarded scraps. Yeah, 505 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: and you guys brushed them off. So how much of 506 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: a scrap did he have? Do you remember? It was 507 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: a pretty big one. I mean the song was definitely 508 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: sort of a shell of itself. And he played me 509 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of we got and got stuck one day, 510 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: like the second day, we were a little stuck, and 511 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I showed you mine, now 512 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: show me your scraps. Basically, do you have anything? And 513 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean he is prolific and he records constantly. Yeah, 514 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: and he has his own studio. So yes, he's got 515 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: a lot of scraps. And they're fully like some of 516 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: them are recorded with a full band, but they're not 517 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: necessarily finished or the way that they end up and 518 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: you play me a bunch of stuff, and it was 519 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: all really cool. But there's this thing that's happened to 520 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: me over the last ten years where it's it's become 521 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: harder and harder for me to cover other people's songs 522 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: because I'm I'm enjoying making my own songs now and 523 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: so for me, you know, to connect with someone else's 524 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: words and music enough to sing them. And it's not 525 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: that I don't want to sing them, but to be 526 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: able to own it, you have to own it. To 527 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: cover a song, I have to basically sing it like 528 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: it's mine. So nothing was completely catching me in that way. 529 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: And then and then Wintertime came on. I was I 530 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: love this. What was it in Wintertime that you did 531 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: react to? Do you know? Was it the lyric or 532 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: the feeling of it? I liked the feeling of it. 533 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: The lyrics were kind of half there, and yeah, I 534 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: just it just felt good. I liked the tempo. I 535 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: liked the vibe. It's funny when you write with somebody else, 536 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: everybody has a chord structure that they tend towards, and 537 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: his is specific to him and it sounds like Jeff, 538 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: you know, And what is that there's like a lot 539 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: of minor twos and instead of four chords, and I 540 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: liked it, but I liked it had a real flavor, 541 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: had a real hymn flavor. You know. When we come back, 542 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: Nora Jones sings, she breaks down her song Wintertime and 543 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: explains how the minor two chord is part of the 544 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: Wilco sound. We're back with Nora Jones breaking down the 545 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: song she co wrote with Jeff Tweedy, Wintertime. So that's 546 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: our favorite song on the album. What's your favorite song? 547 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: I really like, I mean, I like them all, but 548 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: I really like just a little bit. I really liked 549 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: that one because we've been playing it live and it's 550 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: really fun to play live. I also really like My 551 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: Heart is Full because live it's taken on a whole 552 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: new life. And that's sort of like, you know what 553 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm saying about these songs being alive, staying a lot, 554 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: keeping them alive. It's a whole other things changed when 555 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: you're playing that one live. Well, my Heart is Full 556 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: I did in the in the studio with Thomas Bartlett 557 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: and he's got all these cool electronics and it's amazing, 558 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: but live is just bass, drums, piano and organ, and 559 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: sonically we can take it to an intense place, but 560 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: it's not the same exact sonics, you know what I mean. 561 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: Can you give us a taste of that one so 562 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: it gets like more primal, you know, than electronic, which 563 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: is sort of how it is on the album. Anyway, 564 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: what's the relationship in your mind between the live version 565 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: and the and the album version? I mean, do you 566 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: do you do you start to favor one over the other? Yeah? 567 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: I think I usually start to favor the live version 568 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: because it becomes its own thing and it's hard to 569 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, you can't go back in time and change it. 570 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: But but that doesn't mean that I always do. It's 571 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: just when you're in the middle of a tour and 572 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: you're starting to feel something differently. It's It's a funny 573 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: thing because song's morph and usually they start in the studio. 574 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: You're not playing them live a bunch before you go 575 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: into record, though I've done that before too. Yeah, and 576 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: that is a whole other thing. You find an arrangement 577 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: that really works live and then you go in and 578 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: try to capture it, but it never quite has the 579 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: magic of singing a song for the first time. Kind 580 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: of and capturing it for the first time. For me, 581 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: it just depends. So when you're sitting down, is that 582 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: song I don't think? Did that have a lot of 583 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: piano on the No, there's no piano on the recorded version, 584 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: but on live it's instead of doing you know, instead 585 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: of trying to get a delay and repeat my voice, 586 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: it just you know, and then we add an instrumental section. 587 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: It's fun. Don't stop? Is it so much fun? Get 588 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: give me? That's so you did another one? There's another 589 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: one that you really love off the album, which is oh, 590 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: just a little bit, just a little bit, that's right. Yeah, 591 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: how did that one? Who's how did that one come about? 592 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: My friend Sarah Oda had a song that she gave 593 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: me because I was going in the studio and I 594 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: was completely unprepared. Again, this is completely unprepared, except I 595 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: was so prepared. We got seven songs in that three 596 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: day session, so I actually was super inspired, but more 597 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: scattered maybe. Yeah. I had a lot of snippets. I 598 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: had some finished songs because I was going in with 599 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: Brian Blade and Chris Thomas, who is a little band 600 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: I've been I had been playing with. Anyway, she gave 601 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: me this song in case I needed something, because I've 602 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: recorded her songs before and the song was cool. She 603 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: had a melody and everything. It wasn't unfinished really, it 604 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: just didn't have any instruments on. It was just her 605 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: singing the melody and I had the lyrics sheet and 606 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: we were kind of going in a different direction. That 607 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: song kind of got pushed on the back burner and 608 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: we were kind of in a lull, and so I 609 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: went to the organ instead of the piano, and I 610 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: just started sort of and I started singing her lyrics 611 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: because they were just there, just because I was singing gibberish. 612 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: But then I just saw her lyrics here and I 613 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: started singing her lyrics over what we were playing, which 614 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: was completely separate from the song she had written, and 615 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: I took her lyrics and I accidentally just like put 616 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: them into this new song and then we called it 617 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: space Cham and we never listened to it again, and 618 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: then the engineer sent it to me the next month 619 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: and was like, this was kind of cool. Do you 620 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: remember this? And I asked her, I was like can 621 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: I can? I? You know, is it cool that I 622 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: used the lyrics in this way instead? And She's like yeah, 623 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: that's fine, as long as I can record this song 624 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: and the other way someday. I said, that's fine. But 625 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: what I really like about it is that her i'm structure. 626 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: Her original song was I'm not going to sing you 627 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: the melody, but it was like, I'll sing you the 628 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: rhythm of the way her melody was. It was I'm 629 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: not the one you can ignore. I'm not like those 630 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: you've had before. That was like the rhythm of it, 631 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: And so I feel like the rhythm of the rhyme 632 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: scheme got kind of flipped around, and I don't know, 633 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of interesting because it was written 634 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: with one intention but then flipped around. It's kind of 635 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: backwards in a cool way. Can you give us so? 636 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: So here's so, you know, I added things here and there, 637 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: and her basic lyric is just the It was kind 638 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: of turned upside down rhythmically, totally unintentionally. It was just 639 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: sitting in front of me, you know. But does that 640 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: happen a lot with music? You get the people things 641 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: people give you. I don't often do that, but I 642 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: did write another song on this EP from a poem 643 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: from a friend called begin Again, And you know, her 644 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: lyric was I feel like the rhythm of the rhyme 645 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: scheme was a little bit more true to what she wrote. 646 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, like I said, I don't do it a ton, 647 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: but I do like the idea of lyrics and music 648 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: coming from two different brains and putting them together. It's 649 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: completely not how probably the one person would think. You 650 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: know that you sound like artistically you're you're growing more 651 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: and more open? Yeah, for sure? Is that just? Is 652 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: that just come from increased self con what's the what's 653 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: the reason for that? Is that that's because usually, don't 654 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: you think of people usually go in the opposite direction 655 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: as they get ultimately get more set. Now, I don't know. 656 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to though. I think I've become more 657 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: and more open for sure, and I like it. I've 658 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: I've been more inspired by it. I learn new things 659 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: and I'm better for it. You know. I know what 660 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm good at, I know what people Some people think 661 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: of me as what I do, and that's fine, but 662 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: I like to open it up and sort of try 663 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: different things. Yeah, I don't think I ever go outside 664 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: of myself in a way that's not true to myself. 665 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: Thanks to Noah Jones for talking and playing us through 666 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: some of the tracks on our album Begin Again. If 667 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: you couldn't tell Malcolm and Bruce swiftthrow. You can check 668 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: out more of the album by visiting Broken Record podcast 669 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: dot com and subscribing to our playlist for this episode. 670 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: You can also sign up for a behind the scenes 671 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: newsletter while you're there. Broken Record is produced with help 672 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: from Jason Gambrell and me Lobelle. Our theme music is 673 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: by the great Kenny Beats. Stay tuned for next week's episode, 674 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: our very first live taping of the podcast. It's Malcolm 675 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: Gladwell and conversation will flee from the Red Hot Chili 676 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: Peppers at the Palace the Peter in Los Angeles. So 677 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week. I'm 678 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: justin Richmond, h