Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
Speaker 1: This is pretty smart, just like.
Speaker 2: Today that I'm nut Today I thought forever said I
Speaker 2: got your love, But that'll last when that first quod out,
Speaker 2: like will you walked up my life?
Speaker 3: Why you walk out my life?
Speaker 1: Today we are talking about heartbreak, just in time for
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, right. I think there's a few different kinds
Speaker 1: of heartbreak. There's family heartbreak. Someone you love passing can
Speaker 1: cause heartbreak. There's romantic heartbreak. Sometimes you can even break
Speaker 1: your own heart. The first time I was really really
Speaker 1: heartbroken was when I was twenty eight. I've had boyfriends
Speaker 1: who hurt me in the past, or I've had family stuff.
Speaker 3: This was different.
Speaker 1: This was utter heartbreak. I couldn't decide which hurt more,
Speaker 1: going to bed at night or waking up in the morning.
Speaker 1: I think it was the morning because I would wake
Speaker 1: up and realize it all wasn't a dream and this
Speaker 1: was actually my life. Or worse, I woke up exhausted
Speaker 1: because he had been in my dreams. It sent me
Speaker 1: into what I look back on now as acute depression.
Speaker 1: I didn't know it at the time, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: really only the breakup, to be honest, It was a
Speaker 1: confluence of unfortunate events, that being one of them, and
Speaker 1: a big one, But it was also how the breakup
Speaker 1: was done. It was like I had dated one person
Speaker 1: and been dumped by a totally different person. There was
Speaker 1: no respect, no care, lots of insecurity and projection which
Speaker 1: I didn't see in him at the time, and then
Speaker 1: I found out about cheating stuff after the fact.
Speaker 3: It was a mess.
Speaker 1: Some of my friends would say to me, it's okay,
Speaker 1: like you can't trust him or you lost trust. It's
Speaker 1: only one person. But the truth was it was so
Speaker 1: much worse because I lost trust in my own instincts.
Speaker 1: How did I not see all of this stuff? I
Speaker 1: still look back on it and wonder how. It's a
Speaker 1: longer story for another podcast or honestly, maybe a book,
Speaker 1: but the heartbreak did something incredible for me. It changed
Speaker 1: me forever. It's no coincidence that so many of the
Speaker 1: world's best selling records are tethered by feelings of heartbreak.
Speaker 1: It's a universal experience. There's sad songs like Adele's someone
Speaker 1: Like You.
Speaker 2: Amma, sometimes Salus but sometimes it is.
Speaker 3: Since the.
Speaker 1: Boys to Men's End of the Road had an epic
Speaker 1: run on the Billboard charts.
Speaker 3: Time. Or how about a more recent song by Frank
Speaker 3: oshin I Will Always Love You? How I do?
Speaker 1: Let go a prayer for.
Speaker 3: Just a sweet one.
Speaker 1: The table is prepared.
Speaker 3: For That song always makes me cry.
Speaker 1: Do not play that song on Spotify for me, because
Speaker 1: tears will be shed. But there's also some empowering songs
Speaker 1: about heartbreaking.
Speaker 4: Love blast That's not what I ses, Look what I got,
Speaker 4: Look what you told me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, more than I like you. It's last Thank you,
Speaker 3: you must, you must.
Speaker 4: I haven't heard it.
Speaker 1: And I'm back.
Speaker 3: Help me here and let its pay bad You must,
Speaker 3: you must. This is a personal favorite.
Speaker 4: Didn't they hold out but you came home around three
Speaker 4: six yard one out? Then four of you are cheap? Yeah,
Speaker 4: because only two of you had dinner? Found a credit
Speaker 4: cop seed. It's not fine, but foolkay backy way that bad?
Speaker 4: Don't June that one?
Speaker 3: June? I love that line.
Speaker 1: If six of you went out, then four of you
Speaker 1: were really cheap because only two of you had dinner.
Speaker 1: I found your credit card receipt so good. When I
Speaker 1: think about heartbreak, I always think about this quote from
Speaker 1: author Elizabeth Gilbert. She wrote, the only guarantee if you
Speaker 1: live a brave life is you're going to experience heartbreak.
Speaker 1: But it allows you to understand humanity in a way
Speaker 1: you couldn't before having a broken heart. It means we've
Speaker 1: tried for something. Glennon Doyle writes something similar and Love Warrior.
Speaker 1: She says, I loved well, and this is the receipt
Speaker 1: that I paid.
Speaker 3: The price.
Speaker 1: Getting through heartbreak is something you should feel really proud of.
Speaker 1: The word crisis comes from the Greek root. It means
Speaker 1: to separate or to sift. There's an opportunity in every crisis,
Speaker 1: and the deeper the crisis, the better the opportunity can be.
Speaker 1: Heartbreak is a perfect time to sift, so only the
Speaker 1: important remains. And when you're in the think of it,
Speaker 1: that's the last thing you want to hear. You don't
Speaker 1: want to hear that you're going to be grateful for
Speaker 1: this time, because all it does is hurt. But when
Speaker 1: I tell you I am so grateful for my heartbreak,
Speaker 1: I mean it. That pain forced me to dig really
Speaker 1: deep within myself to ask a lot of tough questions
Speaker 1: and come to terms with even tougher answers. It broke
Speaker 1: me down, but ultimately I built myself back up and
Speaker 1: that gave me incredible confidence for the road ahead. Because
Speaker 1: once you've been through something hard, you know you can
Speaker 1: handle the hard stuff ahead. So instead of trying to
Speaker 1: get around it, we're going through it today with our guest,
Speaker 1: Tefi Pesoa. You might already be a member of Teffi's
Speaker 1: TikTok community, which is where she gives thoughtful and heartfelt
Speaker 1: advice to her one point six million followers. Tuffy's become
Speaker 1: a sort of confidant about pop culture, love, mental health,
Speaker 1: and heartbreak. The internet has deemed her their best friend,
Speaker 1: and after our conversation, I understand why. So today we
Speaker 1: are diving into the deep pain of heartbreak or unpacking it,
Speaker 1: accepting it, and ultimately learning from it. Okay, so before
Speaker 1: we jump into heartbreak, I need to know about your upbringing,
Speaker 1: who you were as a kid, where you grew up,
Speaker 1: all the things.
Speaker 3: So I grew up in Miami, small town. Not a
Speaker 3: lot happening there. It's only happened like once or twice
Speaker 3: I people were like, oh, Miami, Ohio. I'm like, no, No, Miami, Florida.
Speaker 3: And I think growing up there really kind of like
Speaker 3: truly molded me as a person in a way where
Speaker 3: I don't think people realize, because when people ask me
Speaker 3: about like being Latina, I'm like, you don't understand, like
Speaker 3: you come from a place. I kind of compare it
Speaker 3: to like when you see your teachers at the supermarket
Speaker 3: and you're like, what are you doing here? Get back
Speaker 3: home to school? You live there. So like for Miami,
Speaker 3: I was like, this is the whole that was my
Speaker 3: whole world. So I thought that the percentage of Latin
Speaker 3: people that was like all over the world. And so
Speaker 3: when I think about, you know, things I've experienced or
Speaker 3: like whether it be an anger, pride, disappointment, heartbreak, joy,
Speaker 3: I've only experienced it around and with Latin people. I
Speaker 3: just feel like growing up in Miami, there's a reason
Speaker 3: there are so many Cuban people. There's a reason there's
Speaker 3: so many Haitian people. There's a reason there's a lot
Speaker 3: of Guatemalan people. There's a reason there's a lot of
Speaker 3: Venezuelan people. So you're around a lot of people who
Speaker 3: have the courage to starting it. And I think that
Speaker 3: really was something really influential to me too, because the
Speaker 3: idea of starting over again and getting up again was
Speaker 3: not foreign to me, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 3: there's a courage there, and there's a there's a sense
Speaker 3: of I can do it too that I grew up around.
Speaker 3: That I think definitely influenced me more than I realized
Speaker 3: as a kid. You know, I love that so much.
Speaker 1: As I was watching your videos and reading your tweets.
Speaker 1: You are so comfortable with your feelings. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: actually like pushes up against my fears in some way
Speaker 1: because I come from a family where they're not so
Speaker 1: comfortable with feelings. It's the exact opposite. And I look
Speaker 1: at you with simultaneous admiration and fright me too.
Speaker 3: It's amazing, Like, so, is it it's just natural for you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't think it's it's natural. The way that I
Speaker 3: approach things. I think it's because because I was the
Speaker 3: oldest and my parents broke up when I was like
Speaker 3: in second grade. They immediately my mom immediately put me
Speaker 3: into therapy, and she put us all into therapy. But
Speaker 3: I think maybe I was the oldest that I like,
Speaker 3: I took to it. When it came to feelings, I
Speaker 3: realized that, like my feelings were getting hurt a lot
Speaker 3: as a kid, the only way to make me feel
Speaker 3: better was if I understood what somebody meant by that.
Speaker 3: And through like years going by, I understood that if
Speaker 3: I could get them to tell me what they meant
Speaker 3: in a way where they felt safe with me, that
Speaker 3: I would be able to navigate things better. And it
Speaker 3: started really really young for me, like really young, Like
Speaker 3: I remember being in fifth grade and being like, I
Speaker 3: know sometimes we get scared, but why did you scream
Speaker 3: at me during heads up seven up?
Speaker 1: So when you're in relationship, do you find yourself making
Speaker 1: excuses for your partner because you're really understanding where they're
Speaker 1: coming from.
Speaker 3: No, I've had people be like, not everything has to
Speaker 3: be such a deep dive. I'm the same people see
Speaker 3: me like everything not everything has to be such a
Speaker 3: deep dive, And for me, I'm just like, but you
Speaker 3: don't understand. If I don't understand, then I have to
Speaker 3: accept that you're an asshole. I don't know your why.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, and you have to tell me
Speaker 3: your why, because if you don't tell me your why.
Speaker 3: I have to accept that I've wasted a year on
Speaker 3: an asshole. It's only with age that I realized everybody
Speaker 3: has a why, but not everybody like shit. So that
Speaker 3: was really fucked up for me to think about. For
Speaker 3: a while. I was like, why would you come to
Speaker 3: that truth, Teffy? And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm really pissing myself off. But a lot of people
Speaker 3: have Nobody has a perfect story, right, Like, everybody has
Speaker 3: their issues, Like everybody has something in their lives that
Speaker 3: molded them, whether they liked it or not. We've all
Speaker 3: had terrible things. But I don't think I would ever
Speaker 3: be able to hurt somebody in the way that other
Speaker 3: people have chosen to like hurt me, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. That's a really hard thing to accept. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think also something that young people think, and I
Speaker 3: wish I could shake it out of them. What do
Speaker 3: you mean that you'll be the lesson and they'll treat
Speaker 3: the next person better. It is such a farce. It
Speaker 3: is such a lie. Yeah, there is one thing in
Speaker 3: a person that I believe is like a stain. It's
Speaker 3: like bleach on clothing, And no matter how much time
Speaker 3: has passed, that will always remain, especially the longer it's
Speaker 3: left to like fester. If you meet a man in
Speaker 3: their late twenties early thirties, that is selfish. You're looking
Speaker 3: at a selfish man. What age do you think that's?
Speaker 1: Because I agree with you, but I think when you're young, young,
Speaker 1: like eighteen nineteen, people are still growing into themselves. I
Speaker 1: think if you meet a man at thirty five, that's selfish.
Speaker 3: He is who he is. That is it that person
Speaker 3: is downloading. I want to say, because of the the
Speaker 3: brain development from a biological point of view, maybe twenty five.
Speaker 3: But if I met an agily young, it's really young.
Speaker 3: But that's when your friendtal lobe stops developing, right that
Speaker 3: I know. I googled it.
Speaker 1: I had like the breakup that like obliterated my heart,
Speaker 1: and I've learned through therapy it was really more about
Speaker 1: like the breakup, it wasn't so much him, It was
Speaker 1: like it broke It brought up a lot of inner
Speaker 1: child stuff for me that I hadn't known or worked on.
Speaker 1: But that breakup, he started dating a person living in
Speaker 1: my building, which was wild.
Speaker 3: Out of all the fucking people, out of all the
Speaker 3: and I live in like a small building. It was
Speaker 3: so I don't know. I literally say that. I'm like,
Speaker 3: there are so many people in the world. I don't know,
Speaker 3: you couldn't have picked one of them.
Speaker 1: Pick why in my sixteen person unit did you pick her?
Speaker 1: It was like a little too coincidental, but whatever. So
Speaker 1: the point is I said to my therapist, like, she
Speaker 1: seems like I've seen her in the elevator. She actually
Speaker 1: seems like young and really nice, Like I hope it
Speaker 1: changes for her. And my therapist was like, don't count
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 2: I was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was me, Maybe we brought out, you know,
Speaker 1: bad things in each other. And she was like, she
Speaker 1: just accepts whatever limitations he had her. Her limitations match
Speaker 1: up with his limitations.
Speaker 3: It just works for her. But nothing has changed. I
Speaker 3: was like, I always say that. I always say, like
Speaker 3: whenever I see somebody with like a younger person or
Speaker 3: a person least experienced, I'm like, it would take them.
Speaker 3: Like I always think about people who are with these
Speaker 3: like older stars, Right, there's a reason they go for
Speaker 3: these like twenty two year olds. One they won't say,
Speaker 3: oh my god, you have a fucking drinking problem. It
Speaker 3: is nine in the morning, where the fuck are you drinking? Like,
Speaker 3: why are you putting whiskey in your fuck and coffee?
Speaker 3: A nineteen year old three year old goes, he's so spontaneous,
Speaker 3: he's so fun and doesn't have enough experience to know
Speaker 3: that that's not right. That's not right, because if they
Speaker 3: did it when you said like, eighteen nineteen year olds
Speaker 3: are selfish, if I met an eighteen nineteen year old
Speaker 3: that wasn't, I would be so concerned. There is a
Speaker 3: there's a time in your life to be so selfish.
Speaker 3: But I feel like with a partner, there's a difference
Speaker 3: between being selfish and taking advantage or not suffering consequences.
Speaker 3: So being selfish, for example, you could have a boyfriend
Speaker 3: of a year in college, but I hope you go
Speaker 3: to that study abroad in Barcelona. That's selfish of you.
Speaker 3: You're not thinking of other people. You're thinking of yourself,
Speaker 3: and that's important. That's important, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think there's a part of me that sees a
Speaker 3: little selfishness in other people, and I recognize it because
Speaker 3: of it within myself. I just don't think. I think
Speaker 3: as I get older, I'm starting to differentiate the kind
Speaker 3: of selfishness that I'm looking for, and the kind of
Speaker 3: selfishness that I'm looking for is for your own personal development,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And your peace of mind,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like if I invite you
Speaker 3: to a party and you're like, no, I got to
Speaker 3: take care of myself. I have an early class tomorrow
Speaker 3: and I want to take care of me. Fine, be
Speaker 3: a stick in the mud whatever. I'll see you on Friday.
Speaker 3: But if it's something where it's like I if you're
Speaker 3: a man and I buy you a dress shirt and
Speaker 3: then you go on a date wearing it behind my
Speaker 3: back with somebody like that is a selfishness that like
Speaker 3: I can't unteach you. And I've had many exes that
Speaker 3: I've taken back. I'm never somebody to not give somebody
Speaker 3: a second chance, you know, Like I think that idea
Speaker 3: of like now he's going to be the person that
Speaker 3: I've always wanted him to be for somebody else has
Speaker 3: like plagued me a lot. And it's funny because they
Speaker 3: may have sworn up and down that they are different,
Speaker 3: and I might see some real differences. Maybe this person
Speaker 3: doesn't party anymore. Maybe this person doesn't drink anymore. Maybe
Speaker 3: this person you know has proven to me time and
Speaker 3: time again they deleted their dating apps, whatever the fuck
Speaker 3: it is, you know, But there are certain ways that
Speaker 3: like selfishness creeps up in ways that you could never erase,
Speaker 3: like like coming home with food and not asking you
Speaker 3: what you wanted. Oh you know what I mean. It
Speaker 3: looks like a bomb. It's abominable, Yeah it is, mom, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Or like I talked about it on TikTok, like ordering
Speaker 3: food for everybody, like for you and him, and then
Speaker 3: like them not cleaning up and being okay with your
Speaker 3: place being a mess, Like there are little things that
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's too deep rooted. Or and I've had
Speaker 3: friends also tell me like, oh my god, but like
Speaker 3: he's going to be this person, and I was like,
Speaker 3: you know, he might be terrible, but he deserves to
Speaker 3: be with somebody. Let's say he does change. He deserves
Speaker 3: to be with somebody that'll see him with fresh eyes.
Speaker 3: And you don't respect him anymore. You mom him, but
Speaker 3: you don't respect him. And I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: worth the paranoia of it, because for the rest of
Speaker 3: your life you're going to be wondering who is he
Speaker 3: at dinner with? Did he go to dinner? Why didn't
Speaker 3: he text me good night? Who is he with? Like
Speaker 3: those things are not worth it? So he could change,
Speaker 3: but he ruined it. It's you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to ask you actually about you just
Speaker 1: said you mom meet him, I give my mommy everybody.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's something that I've seen you talk about
Speaker 3: a lot you've said. I want to read the exact thing.
Speaker 1: It says one of your deep posts on TikTok, you wrote,
Speaker 1: women are forced to face themselves, They're forced to parent
Speaker 1: their partners, and you feel like that's actually why a
Speaker 1: lot of your past partners have resented you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to understand better what you mean. I
Speaker 3: think there is a moment in time where men think
Speaker 3: I want a woman just like my mom. I think
Speaker 3: that they almost all do subconsciously. Yeah, even IF's a hater,
Speaker 3: Even if a hater, it's just a case of familiarity.
Speaker 3: Like maybe how people say, like you find your father
Speaker 3: and everyone. I don't know if that's necessarily true, but
Speaker 3: there are traits about my dad that I definitely look for.
Speaker 3: Don't You would never have to babysit my dad, for example,
Speaker 3: at a party, like you can leave him to do
Speaker 3: his own thing, and people come back and they're like, what,
Speaker 3: he's so funny, you know what I mean? Like, my
Speaker 3: dad's that kind of guy. So I do look for
Speaker 3: that in other people. But I feel like there will
Speaker 3: always be a sense of she'll take care of it.
Speaker 3: And I feel like when I start, especially at a
Speaker 3: young age, if you start dating really young, you find
Speaker 3: yourself kind of falling into that, saying like how much
Speaker 3: Look how much easier your life could be if I
Speaker 3: was with you, Like, look how comfortable you are. And
Speaker 3: what I didn't realize is that men didn't see that
Speaker 3: as like, oh, I have to take care of this.
Speaker 3: Men saw that as a starting point where it's like,
Speaker 3: oh I don't even have to try, and look how
Speaker 3: good she is to me. Like, men did not see
Speaker 3: that as something that they had to, like, something precious
Speaker 3: that they had to like water and nurture. I just
Speaker 3: feel like that's important for them absolutely. Who doesn't want
Speaker 3: to be excused, who doesn't want to be like viciously
Speaker 3: babied viciously? I remember one time this person said to me,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you're just like my fucking mom. And
Speaker 3: I said, who the fuck wants to fuck their son?
Speaker 3: Like shut the fuck up? You know so? And it's
Speaker 3: also like I'm also a fucking kid. I'm the same
Speaker 3: age as you, or maybe like two years less. You
Speaker 3: don't think I want to be fucking babied beyond like
Speaker 3: taking me to dinner, Like I can take me to dinner, right,
Speaker 3: I've shown time and time again how like comfortable I
Speaker 3: can make your life. You've shown me only the ways
Speaker 3: you've made my life harder. Yeah, you know so when
Speaker 3: I say, like mommying somebody, I mean like, are you okay?
Speaker 3: What do you need? See? I remembered, oh I love that.
Speaker 3: See I've remembered oh, you can count on me. And
Speaker 3: for some reason, I don't know if dependability is also
Speaker 3: like a muscle. I like to say confidence is like
Speaker 3: a muscle. I don't know if dependability or being a
Speaker 3: reliability is a muscle, but I for sure I think
Speaker 3: it is. It's a habit. It is a habit. That
Speaker 3: that quote how you do one thing is how you
Speaker 3: do everything drives me fucking nuts because if I showed
Speaker 3: you my apartment right now, you would think I'm squatting
Speaker 3: I have so many packages that a delivery guy, my
Speaker 3: Uber Eats driver said, happy moving. I've been here for two.
Speaker 1: Years, so I sort of feel like that quote haunts
Speaker 1: me as well, because I do you're a person of excellence.
Speaker 1: I strive for Yeah, we all. I strive for excellence too.
Speaker 1: My life is not excellent in every area there's it's impossible, right,
Speaker 1: So I hate that quote too.
Speaker 3: Did you also have an eating disorder? Yeah, when I
Speaker 3: was younger. Yeah, And afectionism is a drug. Perfect. If
Speaker 3: I could put control into a pipe, I would book
Speaker 3: it to the filter. Okay, but that's something else that
Speaker 3: my therapist told me about people who have EDS. Instead
Speaker 3: of nourishing ourselves, we nourish others because at least then
Speaker 3: we're busy, you know, And that really fucked me up.
Speaker 3: I know, it's like I'd rather avoid. And also dating
Speaker 3: gives us an excuse to be in control of our appearance,
Speaker 3: you know. So no, what do you mean, like getting dressed,
Speaker 3: getting ready to going to the gym looking cute, you know,
Speaker 3: like putting an extra effort or whatever. There's certain ways
Speaker 3: that people with EDS like we cover things, you know,
Speaker 3: Like I used to tell people all the time I
Speaker 3: was training for a marathon, and that's why, you know,
Speaker 3: I wasn't doing that, or I was doing too much
Speaker 3: of this or whatever. I used to tell people I
Speaker 3: enjoyed just walking to work, but I had, like, you know,
Speaker 3: my calorie counters and stuff. We all cover things up.
Speaker 3: So when people are like, like taking care of my body,
Speaker 3: like working out too much, I'm like, well, I'm dating again.
Speaker 3: I don't want to gain the extra way, you know,
Speaker 3: Like for me, like dating was something that I could hide.
Speaker 3: I could hide behind my partner instead of talking about me.
Speaker 3: I could talk about how exciting dating was, you know,
Speaker 3: how I met somebody. Everything you don't like talking about
Speaker 3: you if I'm actively like avoiding nourishment or like taking
Speaker 3: care of my body, like if I'm not if I'm
Speaker 3: slipping into old habits, yeah, I'm talking to you about
Speaker 3: everything else or fascinating. My friends will know when I'm
Speaker 3: avoiding them, because people that you don't know, you could
Speaker 3: talk about whatever and they think this is just you. Right,
Speaker 3: you sit down like, bitch, what the fuck is happening?
Speaker 3: Like you, what's going on?
Speaker 2: They know?
Speaker 3: You sit down, You're like yeah, and they're like, what's
Speaker 3: going on? You know, and I'm like, I'm losing control.
Speaker 3: I'm losing control. So there's a part of me also
Speaker 3: where I think with dating it's hard because you tell
Speaker 3: people these things, like you share your hurt with people
Speaker 3: you know, and then they hurt you, and you're like,
Speaker 3: I told you, like I told you, and so like
Speaker 3: for men, whatever, for your partner, if they told you
Speaker 3: like a trigger of theirs, you know, like let's say
Speaker 3: they got cheated on with their exes coworker, Yeah, me,
Speaker 3: I would make it an extra effort that they met
Speaker 3: all my coworkers that they knew all the office gossip.
Speaker 3: I wanted them to feel as comfortable as possible. Right
Speaker 3: for men, you could say, you know, like my ex
Speaker 3: was always on dating apps, and they're like, they'll go
Speaker 3: home and download Tinder. They're just so far removed from like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what investment means to men, or like
Speaker 3: to there's a lot of selfish women and a lot
Speaker 3: of selfish but non binary people too. It's just that
Speaker 3: the only people truly broken my heart are just men, right,
Speaker 3: you know, I.
Speaker 1: Also think potentially they're wired differently because it is a
Speaker 1: whole different level. Even good hearted people. I think men
Speaker 1: are just a little bit more selfish. They comme at
Speaker 1: it from a different angle to begin with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you. It's a selfish angle. It's
Speaker 3: a selfish angle. I'm trying to share myself with somebody,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I'm trying to share a
Speaker 3: life with you. I want you to meet my family.
Speaker 3: I want you to share memes with my brother. I
Speaker 3: want you to, you know, read my birthday cards from
Speaker 3: my grandfather. You know, I want you to. I want
Speaker 3: my aunt to make her famous charcuterie board for you.
Speaker 3: It's fantastic, you know. But men are just like you know,
Speaker 3: they want to make sure that they are still validated.
Speaker 3: They're obsessed with validation. But I think it's really like we.
Speaker 1: I think we have really multi pronged wants and needs,
Speaker 1: and for them it feels like it's sex, food and ego. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then and then they wonder why we think about
Speaker 3: them so like prehistorically, and I'm like, well, yeah, but
Speaker 3: also like how would you it would It would hurt
Speaker 3: my heart to live my life knowing that you were
Speaker 3: this multi dimensional person and I just never did know.
Speaker 3: And I and you didn't find me either worthy or
Speaker 3: you know, you didn't share that with me. But then
Speaker 3: I go to sleep and I'm like, I think we
Speaker 3: always think about the things that we could have done.
Speaker 3: Like I had a boyfriend once that used to come
Speaker 3: home at like seven in the morning, and he used
Speaker 3: to come home so fucked up, and I would like
Speaker 3: scream and scream at him and be a huge fight.
Speaker 3: And I look back and I'm like, why didn't I
Speaker 3: bolt the door? Why why didn't I let that motherfucker
Speaker 3: sleep outside like a consequence because I thought the consequence
Speaker 3: was disappointing me. That didn't mean anything to him, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And then I also tell myself,
Speaker 3: because that's not you. You would never let anybody sleep
Speaker 3: outside with nowhere to go in the winter. That's just
Speaker 3: not within. And is that something you like about yourself?
Speaker 3: I love that about me. That's why relationships. You're not
Speaker 3: going to change that about me. That's the key, right,
Speaker 3: you know. I would go on these days after these
Speaker 3: like tremendous heartbreaks. I've had like three tremendous heartbreaks in
Speaker 3: my life and like, you're so brave, you know, Like
Speaker 3: one of my relationships didn't work out, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: I wonder who, Like I look just like him, you know.
Speaker 3: And she's like, and I was never brave enough to
Speaker 3: get back out there, really, and you just really pick
Speaker 3: yourself up and you go out and I'm like, I
Speaker 3: leave before they take that for me. I know a
Speaker 3: lot of people who are really bitter. I know a
Speaker 3: lot of people. But you can always get it back.
Speaker 3: You can always get it back. But it's expensive, yes,
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 1: It's expensive emotionally and financially potentially, Babe.
Speaker 3: You can be like, I could date somebody for a year.
Speaker 3: Who's to say they won't date somebody in my building.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that shit again. Do you really have
Speaker 3: control over it? Exactly? But the only thing I have
Speaker 3: control of, the only thing that I have control of
Speaker 3: in my life is how I make people. It's how
Speaker 3: I love people, you know what I mean. Yeah, So
Speaker 3: I have had heartbreaks in my life where I have
Speaker 3: walked around Central Park in a robe and slippers, open mouths, crying. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I looked like SpongeBob's grandma. Oh no, that's real heartbreak
Speaker 3: on the phone my mom, And she says later I
Speaker 3: would talk to her like every hour on the hour
Speaker 3: for days. And my mom later told me I didn't
Speaker 3: understand a word that you were saying. It was hysterical.
Speaker 3: I've had heartbreaks where my cousins have to fly in
Speaker 3: to ensure that I'm eating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I've had heartbreaks where I leave the country for like months,
Speaker 3: you know, and I but I've always, even though it
Speaker 3: broke my fucking heart, I was always the one to
Speaker 3: say so, even even though they said, you know, I'll
Speaker 3: never love you this way. You know, technically, technically I'm
Speaker 3: always the one to leave. But it's not out of nowhere,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I'm not like this mysterious, like I'm
Speaker 3: not this person with that leaves like a letter on
Speaker 3: the bed saying like you know, I'll see you in
Speaker 3: a dream or something. No, you know, I leave right before.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're about to imprint on me, like
Speaker 3: you're about to mold me into somebody fearful. And I
Speaker 3: can't that because if you take that for me, I
Speaker 3: can't be happy for my friends who fall in love.
Speaker 3: I can't be happy for my siblings. You know nice
Speaker 3: it is to see your siblings in love like that,
Speaker 3: to see somebody love your siblings, or see them not
Speaker 3: the way that you see them, but cherish them or
Speaker 3: feel like they're irreplaceable. The way that you feel that's
Speaker 3: such a gift. I say it to my siblings all
Speaker 3: the time. I love seeing you guys in love. I see. However,
Speaker 3: to my brother, I'm like, I see, however, you got
Speaker 3: her a glass of water. Whenever she asks that kind
Speaker 3: of hurt a little bit. I've been asking you for
Speaker 3: thirty two years. But that's okay, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: But like, there's a there's a point about loving love
Speaker 3: because people I know and we go through it when
Speaker 3: we're going to breakups too, where you see people in
Speaker 3: love and you're like, he's cheating on her. I don't
Speaker 3: want to be like that, No, it's going to end.
Speaker 3: Or like you see an old guy and you're like
Speaker 3: I'm getting flowers, you know, and like it's probably for
Speaker 3: his mistress. I've had friends like that, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: you need to talk to somebody. Yeah, well, I guess
Speaker 3: you bring up two things.
Speaker 1: One is it sounds like you refuse to betray yourself,
Speaker 1: which I think is really valuable. But two, you refuse
Speaker 1: to let someone bend your spirit.
Speaker 3: I just feel like I fought so hard for it.
Speaker 3: The reason I am the way that I am is
Speaker 3: because at one point I was not, you know. And
Speaker 3: there are ways every day that we betray ourselves. There
Speaker 3: are little ways every day that we don't act to
Speaker 3: our best interests, you know what I mean. But I
Speaker 3: will say, maybe it's because I'm a cancer, maybe it's
Speaker 3: because I'm Latin, maybe it's because I'm a woman. But
Speaker 3: I do believe in the idea of a tribe, of
Speaker 3: a village, of a community. Rain. Yeah. I always tell
Speaker 3: people it's the people who love you the most and
Speaker 3: have nothing to gain from your unhappiness are telling you
Speaker 3: that you can do better. I think you should listen.
Speaker 3: They have nothing to gain, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So with it. When it comes to my mom or
Speaker 3: like my exes, when I'm ready to break up with somebody,
Speaker 3: I tell them everything. I sit down and I'm like,
Speaker 3: you have to help me leave this man. You have
Speaker 3: to help me whoever it is. Oh, you tell your people.
Speaker 3: I tell my people because you can't. Oh, that's so
Speaker 3: hard because there's no unwinding that. There's no unwinding that.
Speaker 3: So it gets to the point then where if I
Speaker 3: see them again, and of course I have, I have
Speaker 3: to sit with that feeling of I betrayed them. I
Speaker 3: betrayed the people who were on the phone with me
Speaker 3: when they could understand me, I got my head's exploding down.
Speaker 3: I betrayed them. So because it's easy to betray ourselves,
Speaker 3: we can forgive ourselves, you know what I mean, over
Speaker 3: and over again. But when your mom calls and she's like,
Speaker 3: how is your weekend? I miss you, and you know that,
Speaker 3: you're like I. This woman has done every This woman
Speaker 3: has listened to me, She was there for me, she
Speaker 3: did everything. I can't tell her or and my mom
Speaker 3: does this thing too. It's a little mafio so but
Speaker 3: it really works where she'll sit me down. She's done
Speaker 3: it in a couple of different ways, but the most
Speaker 3: recent way was I want you to know it could
Speaker 3: be ten years down the line. You could get back
Speaker 3: with this man. You could have children with this man.
Speaker 3: Will ever see those grandchilds. I will never see those grandchildren.
Speaker 3: I will never speak to you again. I cannot bear
Speaker 3: to see you with somebody who doesn't know what you do.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, bitch, it is day two of the breakup. Yeah,
Speaker 3: not day one hundred and two, you know, but it's
Speaker 3: also important for me too. That she comes here and
Speaker 3: she sees me because she reminds me. She's like, do
Speaker 3: you know what you were? Like, Yeah, well, I don't
Speaker 3: see ourselves when we're in that state. I look at
Speaker 3: the pictures of myself and I'm like, you look like
Speaker 3: a white walker. Uh huh.
Speaker 1: I know it always shows up physically always. Owis you
Speaker 1: said you've had three heartbreaks. I think there's different kinds
Speaker 1: of heartbreak. You can break your own heart, there's family heartbreak,
Speaker 1: there's romantic heartbreak.
Speaker 3: When I say heartbreak, what comes up for you immediately?
Speaker 3: I think heartbreak. I think being in love is feeling
Speaker 3: like a kid again, and being a kid again feels vulnerable.
Speaker 3: So whenever I think of heartbreak, I think of being
Speaker 3: a teenager, because that's really what love feels like. You
Speaker 3: know what I mean. I hate the reason I love.
Speaker 3: I love astrology. I love all of the occult. I
Speaker 3: love all of it, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 3: love prayer. I love when people are like, oh, I
Speaker 3: don't believe in God or whatever. I'm like, I don't care.
Speaker 3: My sister's atheist. I rock with that, bitch. I think
Speaker 3: we're going to go to the same place. But it
Speaker 3: would just be lonely for me, you know. And I
Speaker 3: like the idea of life having magic to it, little things,
Speaker 3: little things like being in the mood for ice cream
Speaker 3: and then you are walking and you see an ice
Speaker 3: cream shop. You're like, oh my god. You know, like
Speaker 3: things like that. I like the magic in life. And
Speaker 3: when you're in love, life does feel magical. What a
Speaker 3: beautiful way of describing it. It feels like a gift,
Speaker 3: it really does. You talk to people about heartbreak and
Speaker 3: love and the same thing. No, this is different. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like you feel like it's
Speaker 3: so it's someone could pass understand. Yeah, it's unique. It's
Speaker 3: like like like I understand even heartbroken. Like I look
Speaker 3: at my mom and she's like and I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: you don't understand. She's like, I had three children, I
Speaker 3: was married, and I was like, yeah, that's cute, but
Speaker 3: you don't that's sweet. You don't understand what I'm going through.
Speaker 3: You don't understand. So there's that thing where it's like
Speaker 3: you and the people, the people that you are during
Speaker 3: those like three like three four hundred heartbreaks or whatever,
Speaker 3: they're different people. And I told my ex, like I
Speaker 3: miss her, I miss the person that I was. I
Speaker 3: like who I am, But that girl, I'm never going
Speaker 3: to know her again because you put me through things
Speaker 3: that I probably didn't have to learn, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. You never heard anybody talk about that. She
Speaker 3: was so protective of me. She waited to date, you know,
Speaker 3: like she found the guy she really liked, she waited
Speaker 3: to sleep with him. She like love. She was really
Speaker 3: really confident. She that she was smart and that she
Speaker 3: was funny. And you took her from me, you know,
Speaker 3: you took her from me. So now i have to
Speaker 3: do that all over again. But I'm never going to
Speaker 3: be that person again ever. I'll never be that little
Speaker 3: twenty seven year old girl so excited to meet up
Speaker 3: with you because because I felt something and I thought, okay,
Speaker 3: like he's really nice, he taught, he calls his mom
Speaker 3: all the time. Like that person that was so that
Speaker 3: person was trying to protect me and I let her down.
Speaker 3: I'm like so emotional hearing you say that. There's like,
Speaker 3: I think so much grief wrapped around that. It is grief,
Speaker 3: it's mourning, but people are like everybody mourns a relationship.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I'm mourning the hope I had the
Speaker 3: hope and the version of yourself. I think I wanted
Speaker 3: magic so bad that I or I was so used
Speaker 3: to everybody having a little bit of magic, that I
Speaker 3: may have made it up for you a little bit
Speaker 3: where you were lacking, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 3: that and I love that she did that for like
Speaker 3: I'll look at somebody like, I love that she did
Speaker 3: that for you. But another thing that you took from
Speaker 3: me when you cheat on somebody or when you betray
Speaker 3: somebody is I've never met a woman that I didn't
Speaker 3: want to be fucking friends with. I meet a woman
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, this could be my friend. And
Speaker 3: now for the next few months, I'm going to meet
Speaker 3: new people and wonder if they're your fucking type. You
Speaker 3: turned you turned women. You made me turn my back
Speaker 3: a little bit for women, so I can heal when
Speaker 3: I can even like question my friends, Yeah, were you
Speaker 3: at talk to to my friends? Did you flirt with
Speaker 3: my friends? And I feel like there are some friends
Speaker 3: that there are some partners that definitely did and some
Speaker 3: partners that definitely did not. And my friends would never
Speaker 3: but they, you know, my friends say something, They're like,
Speaker 3: we trusted him with you and That really hurt me, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because I trusted him with me too. The way that
Speaker 3: they treat their friends, the way that they treat their family,
Speaker 3: the way that they talk about their friends, the way
Speaker 3: they talk about their exes. When you're young, you just
Speaker 3: think it's so nuanced, and it's not. He's not nuanced.
Speaker 3: It is those people are just normal everyday people, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like the way that this guy,
Speaker 3: like one of my partners, would talk about all his
Speaker 3: friend's success almost like they didn't deserve it. I'll never
Speaker 3: forget that because one day he woke up. We were
Speaker 3: sleeping together and he woke up and he said, I
Speaker 3: had a nightmare. And I was like, what was your nightmare?
Speaker 3: And he was like, I had a nightmare that you
Speaker 3: were on SNL and I was like, that's a weird thing.
Speaker 3: And then when I got signed to UTA and there
Speaker 3: was an announcement on Variety, he messaged it to me
Speaker 3: on what's up? And we haven't spoken in years. Yeah,
Speaker 3: look at where you are now. Remember how poor you
Speaker 3: were And I was like, I was never special. I
Speaker 3: was just not successful and that made me perfect for you.
Speaker 3: You were always the one that was more successful than
Speaker 3: me At that point, Oh, I went off. I texted
Speaker 3: my mom that she goes say this. I'm like, Mom,
Speaker 3: I can't say that. Oh so you were never poor,
Speaker 3: you were baby broke exactly. I was. I was beginning.
Speaker 3: I was beginning, you know. And he now I realized,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I wasn't special. I was in a
Speaker 3: safe place. I was just, oh my god, comfortable. I
Speaker 3: was easy, and I was younger, and I just moved
Speaker 3: to New York and he had been here his whole life,
Speaker 3: so like he could show me things he loved. I
Speaker 3: always say it to girls when they're going on dates.
Speaker 3: Just let him teach you something. Ask him about his interests,
Speaker 3: and then ask one thing about it and let him talk,
Speaker 3: and he'll be obsessed with you and then love to
Speaker 3: teach you things, you know what I mean, and to
Speaker 3: show you new stuff. Oh, they love it, they really do. Like, Oh,
Speaker 3: this restaurant is incredible. I've never been here. Have you
Speaker 3: heard of this vegetable? It's called eggplant? No? Like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, like it's so. But if you were to
Speaker 3: do something better, I feel it's weird because this one,
Speaker 3: this one person I dated for a little bit. I
Speaker 3: would show him things and then I went through his
Speaker 3: phone and he would send girls the songs I would
Speaker 3: send him and the memes I would send him, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, this girl doesn't even
Speaker 3: know she's dating me, and.
Speaker 1: It's because he had no originality. He took on your
Speaker 1: personality nothing.
Speaker 3: I've also dated people who, oh, were intimidated by me
Speaker 3: and I didn't realize and they thought the only way
Speaker 3: that they could hold my attention was fighting with me.
Speaker 3: So I would sit down and be like, I'm a
Speaker 3: terrible perer, like I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
Speaker 3: And then it took like my friend to sit me
Speaker 3: down and be like the only time he has your
Speaker 3: full attention you're so busy is when you guys are
Speaker 3: fighting and he's ringing it in other than talking about it.
Speaker 3: And I would go through our conversations. I'm like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, this guy is a fucking vampire, you know,
Speaker 3: And no wonder I don't want to talk to him
Speaker 3: all the time because I felt bad. I was like,
Speaker 3: I want to resolve with him, but I just don't
Speaker 3: want to talk to him. She's like, he's programmed you
Speaker 3: that every time you talk to him, he's going to
Speaker 3: be unhappy about something, and that way you dedicate your
Speaker 3: whole life, your whole day to making him feel better
Speaker 3: and apologizing. Heartbreak is normal and heartbreak is part of life.
Speaker 3: I get it, But I think in the future your
Speaker 3: standards change. Every fucking heartbreak, your standards change. I always say,
Speaker 3: standards are your neighborhood, and boundaries are your fencing. Standards
Speaker 3: are where you live, and the fencing to your house
Speaker 3: are your boundaries. So you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 3: a standard for me is I'm monogamous. That's a standard
Speaker 3: for me. I don't want to be in a poly thing,
Speaker 3: and everybody who wants that should be with somebody that
Speaker 3: wants the same thing. And I don't want to get
Speaker 3: in the way of you finding that, you.
Speaker 1: Know, But also, don't lie to me and tell me
Speaker 1: you want want to be monogamous, or don't lie to
Speaker 1: me and tell me you just don't want me to
Speaker 1: see anybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean. That's usually what it is.
Speaker 3: And oh my god, you know how many times I've
Speaker 3: met a guy that's like, I'm in an open relationship
Speaker 3: and she isn't.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, yes, say that to you. It's happened
Speaker 1: to me a bunch, but not like they don't say
Speaker 1: it on Riah.
Speaker 3: I'm like, all of you motherfuckers are married, a lot
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 1: There's a whole thing with girlfriends, all of them. My
Speaker 1: ex was on Riya like the whole time we were
Speaker 1: in a relationship.
Speaker 3: I had no idea it was for friends and networking. No,
Speaker 3: I didn't even know, like he was on it. People
Speaker 3: swear people. That's my mom has a saying. To light
Speaker 3: in my face is to call me an idiot. And
Speaker 3: I like, i'd be like, why are you on this app?
Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, I'm looking for casting. For that,
Speaker 3: you're looking for casting, but it's part of the casting process,
Speaker 3: showing them your dick and in an apartment you don't
Speaker 3: pay rent for. It's like my apartment, Like, I get it.
Speaker 3: The lighting's great. But no, Well, I read that you
Speaker 3: said hurt people.
Speaker 1: Hurt people, which is a common phrase, but you said
Speaker 1: that sometimes the only way people know they exist is
Speaker 1: if they hurt people.
Speaker 3: There's a moment where people realize that they're not going
Speaker 3: to be, that they're not special, you know, And I
Speaker 3: think it happens with me me. There's a moment where
Speaker 3: a man realizes he's not going to be a rock star.
Speaker 3: He's not going to be the Wolf of Wall Street.
Speaker 3: He's not going to be this pro athlete. He's just
Speaker 3: a person. And I feel like women, for us, it's different.
Speaker 3: It's like the the friends we have, where we live,
Speaker 3: the clothes we wear, like those things are more statusy,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, oh than men. Men. It's
Speaker 3: like an ego thing, Like the status for men is different.
Speaker 3: It's different, and there is a moment where men realize
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be I'm not special, you know.
Speaker 3: I'm just a regular guy with a regular job, with
Speaker 3: a regular apartment. And I think that's fine, but for
Speaker 3: them it's not. And I think there are people in
Speaker 3: the world, including women. I know a lot of women
Speaker 3: who go this route too, for different reasons. But they
Speaker 3: realize that if they are the main character in their
Speaker 3: movie and no one's going to watch it, they rather
Speaker 3: be the villain, or they rather be the victim, They
Speaker 3: rather be pitied, and they rather be hated, not be
Speaker 3: seen at all. And those people are the people where
Speaker 3: we confuse and we're like, oh my god, he's mean
Speaker 3: to everybody but me, or like I'm the only one
Speaker 3: that understands her. I'm the only one that's there for her.
Speaker 3: They designed it that way. You're now the supporting character
Speaker 3: in their movie that they've been writing for years, like
Speaker 3: the person that you know runs away, traveling everywhere alone,
Speaker 3: posts about like being alone and whatever. They want it
Speaker 3: that way. They knew that he or they were just
Speaker 3: a regular person, but they had to create this idea
Speaker 3: of them, so they carved this out. They're a voyager,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, They're brave. They're or a
Speaker 3: girl who just like she just she just can't get
Speaker 3: it together and like poor. Have you ever met somebody
Speaker 3: that can't stop dating shitty people? If they didn't date
Speaker 3: shitty people, who wouldn't job? Sorry, what do they talk
Speaker 3: about at dinner? How somebody fucked them over? Oh I've
Speaker 3: never thought about this. This is interesting. I think there's
Speaker 3: courage in being normal. There's courage in normalcy. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of courage in normalcy and consistency. The courage to
Speaker 3: be who you are. I think people think, like, oh,
Speaker 3: the courage to be a star, to be who you are,
Speaker 3: they mean, like the courage to draw attention to myself.
Speaker 3: What if you're not that person? Are you brave enough
Speaker 3: to face that and be okay with that. What if
Speaker 3: you're not that person that doesn't make and what if
Speaker 3: that's actually weak? I think there's this a Real Housewives
Speaker 3: quote Lisam where she says quarters in a money box
Speaker 3: make a lot of noise, but dollars are quiet. And
Speaker 3: I think that way about confidence sometimes, and everybody has
Speaker 3: confidence differently, right.
Speaker 1: Right, So I saw on Twitter in September of twenty
Speaker 1: one you said you went through a pretty public breakup
Speaker 1: and you said, I'm trying so hard to be graceful
Speaker 1: about this. This is the worst heartbreak of my life yet,
Speaker 1: dming me and all this other stuff. I first of all,
Speaker 1: kudos to you. I don't know how you went through
Speaker 1: a public breakup. I have like so much love for you.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to go through it.
Speaker 3: At all, let alone publicly thank you. How did the
Speaker 3: heartbreak leave you?
Speaker 1: Because I think it manifests differently depending on what your
Speaker 1: childhood wounds are. I think it can leave you feeling unlovable,
Speaker 1: It can leave you feeling insecure, it can leave you
Speaker 1: feeling empowered. Like there's all these different ways heartbreak can
Speaker 1: leave you.
Speaker 3: There is something that a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 3: And the reason, a big reason that I was quiet
Speaker 3: about it was because it was there was a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff that was pretty private. It wasn't my story
Speaker 3: to tell the reason why we had really not worked
Speaker 3: for so long, and it was rooted in like addiction
Speaker 3: and like substance abuse. I thought it would be tacky
Speaker 3: to like talk about that when it affects like some
Speaker 3: one's whole family and like all this stuff and whatever.
Speaker 3: And but second of all, there was a point in
Speaker 3: my relationship where it got very cloud chasy, so I
Speaker 3: didn't want to I didn't want to drive any traffic.
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna do it. So there was a there
Speaker 3: was a point where I was like, this person loves
Speaker 3: being my partner, but I don't think they love me necessarily.
Speaker 3: They love the way that I love them. They love
Speaker 3: the way that I show them off. They love that
Speaker 3: people who support me and interact with me and follow
Speaker 3: me view us, but I don't. But we would be
Speaker 3: in a room together and he wouldn't speak to me.
Speaker 3: He'd be like on his phone the whole time, going
Speaker 3: through his dms, going through like you know, his photos,
Speaker 3: seeing what he could post a lot of selfies and
Speaker 3: so when we broke up, I was like, I'm not
Speaker 3: driving any traffic too, I'm not telling anybody anything. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be really really quiet about it. I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do you any favors. I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: give you a platform because the last thing I'm going
Speaker 3: to do is give a man a platform where he
Speaker 3: can talk about me. Yeah, but what does it feel
Speaker 3: like to feel like I actually don't think I've.
Speaker 1: I did feel that once where I dated somebody and
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like they actually loved me m after
Speaker 1: because you guys were together for a good amount of time.
Speaker 3: We were we were and some of it was good
Speaker 3: and some of it was nightmare on Elm Street, but
Speaker 3: it was like it was just a lot of there
Speaker 3: was a lot of stuff that I was unprepared for.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of stuff I was unprepared for. There
Speaker 3: was a lot of stuff that I didn't have experience with.
Speaker 3: And I guess when somebody says, oh, I'm only like
Speaker 3: this when I'm fucked up, and then you're like, but
Speaker 3: you're fucked up all the time, So I think this
Speaker 3: might be you, And I think that they liked that
Speaker 3: I I don't have anything like that in my family,
Speaker 3: So they knew that I was. They knew I was
Speaker 3: going to if I had now if that happened to me,
Speaker 3: I would say either get help or leave. But at
Speaker 3: that point I had to have no experience in that.
Speaker 3: So I was like, come in, you know, let's talk
Speaker 3: about it, what's going on whatever. I was just more empathetic,
Speaker 3: even hard to identify. Sometimes. No, there's a point where
Speaker 3: I was like, ah, I'm fucked. Yeah really, yeah, there
Speaker 3: was no And I think in the beginnings of things,
Speaker 3: like you're just getting sucked up all the time, you're
Speaker 3: going to dinner, you're having a bottle of wine, you're
Speaker 3: doing this, you're doing that, you're going out all the
Speaker 3: time Friday night. But I remember just it was like
Speaker 3: getting in the way of someone and their vice was
Speaker 3: like being called by like a tiger. Like there was
Speaker 3: an anger there, Like there was like a like there's
Speaker 3: a switch that happened, like if you were to deny them,
Speaker 3: or if you were to restrict them in any way,
Speaker 3: or even the word sobriety gets popped up, it was
Speaker 3: like it was like a tiger. I think that relationship
Speaker 3: taught me, taught me a lot about how much I'm
Speaker 3: willing to take. And I'm really proud of myself that
Speaker 3: I had the patience to love someone like that, and
Speaker 3: I'm I'm happy to have seen my bandwidth, but I
Speaker 3: don't I don't ever want to be stretched that far
Speaker 3: ever again, and publicly. You know, it was hard because
Speaker 3: there were people who were supporting me, and then I
Speaker 3: would go through his phone and they'd be like, hit
Speaker 3: me up when you and Teffie breakup, So I don't
Speaker 3: think I'm ever Yeah, And I went on my page
Speaker 3: and I DM them and I was like, I know
Speaker 3: what you're sending this person. You're disgusting, You're like vile,
Speaker 3: and I blocked them. But I think that was one
Speaker 3: thing too, where it's like the support, the support that
Speaker 3: I would get if I talked about it, I could
Speaker 3: go I could go viral for that. I could talk about,
Speaker 3: you know, a bunch of different topics within that breakup.
Speaker 3: I could talk about, you know, dealing with somebody's angry,
Speaker 3: dealing with somebody who's like has substance abuse, or dealing
Speaker 3: with heartbreak in general, dealing with like some cheating on you,
Speaker 3: like whatever. There's a lot of stuff I could have
Speaker 3: talked about. But the support would be so cheap, The
Speaker 3: support would be so cheap, it just wouldn't be It
Speaker 3: just that's not what I want to be supported for.
Speaker 3: I'm not like this weak person. I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: I can I can handle it. And there are things
Speaker 3: that I learned that relationship that I can tell you
Speaker 3: about without having to tell you about it. You know,
Speaker 3: I actually think this is tangential.
Speaker 1: But I often think about like the longevity and health
Speaker 1: of influencers, and that distinction you made, is it because
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful when you like, the whole point of
Speaker 1: a great speech is somebody teaches you something without.
Speaker 3: You having to learn the lesson yourself.
Speaker 1: Like that is the mark of a great book, a
Speaker 1: great speech, a great something, like a great podcast.
Speaker 3: But if you're processing it while we're learning with you,
Speaker 3: there's no lesson there. No, it's just it's performative. Do
Speaker 3: you think that women experience heartbreak differently than men? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I literally when I was going through my last breakup,
Speaker 3: I said, I have to say goodbye to these children
Speaker 3: I've imagined in my mind. I have to say bye
Speaker 3: to them, you know, And for a woman, there is
Speaker 3: this timer now we have like all these advancements whatever,
Speaker 3: but I don't want to freeze my eggs. I don't
Speaker 3: want to, you know, like, and it sounds fantastic and
Speaker 3: maybe you know, I think that women can have babies later,
Speaker 3: But there is a when we broke up, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm probably not going to have kids, so I'm like
Speaker 3: thirty seven now maybe if I do, And there's that clock.
Speaker 3: Men can be seventy something. But you're saying goodbye to
Speaker 3: like an era in your life that only fits like
Speaker 3: a certain thing if you want children. That's how I
Speaker 3: know I'm in love too, Like right now, if children
Speaker 3: happen for me, that's amazing, what a blessing. And if
Speaker 3: they don't, that's okay, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't think it would be detrimental to me. When
Speaker 3: I'm in love, I want I want to give somebody
Speaker 3: a baby really bad, you know. So there was that
Speaker 3: point where I looked at him and I was like,
Speaker 3: it's hard of like you wanted a family so bad,
Speaker 3: and you want a family for the first time ever,
Speaker 3: like a functional family, and my family is very functional
Speaker 3: and like very normal and boring in the best way.
Speaker 3: So I was like I gave you something that you
Speaker 3: were looking for and you used it against me, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like you you took the normalcy
Speaker 3: and the foundation that you were looking for some in
Speaker 3: someone for and you jumped on it. You wanted to
Speaker 3: see if he could crack. And I told you, and
Speaker 3: I say to all my partners, I will leave. You
Speaker 3: think I won't, And I know there's going to be
Speaker 3: a point where you think, oh, she can handle anything.
Speaker 3: I will leave. I will go, and then they never
Speaker 3: believe me when it's when I'm like, no, it's done,
Speaker 3: you know. So there's I think that's actually a gender difference.
Speaker 1: I think women will like they'll are a lot, but
Speaker 1: once they're gone, they're gone.
Speaker 3: Maybe there's a part of us too where, even if
Speaker 3: we have children or not, the idea of having to
Speaker 3: protect a child from someone doesn't do me anymore, you know,
Speaker 3: Like it's that like instinctual thing for me. Also, I
Speaker 3: have to be with someone i'm proud of. If I
Speaker 3: if I'm no longer proud of you, I can't do it.
Speaker 3: And it's not an admiration thing. You could be a
Speaker 3: fucking carpenter, I don't care. You could be a cashier,
Speaker 3: a target, I don't give a fuck. But it's something
Speaker 3: about character, about doing the right thing. My mom says,
Speaker 3: kind people are so kind even when it's hard, you know.
Speaker 3: Like that's something that I really really admire in people,
Speaker 3: because it's so easy for me to be nice to you.
Speaker 3: But if you looked at me and you were like, well,
Speaker 3: everybody thinks you're really stupid, I can look at you like,
Speaker 3: I'd be so and but I would need need to
Speaker 3: like dig deep and be like, I'm really sorry you
Speaker 3: feel that way, you know what I mean? Like that
Speaker 3: was something that's something I admire in people.
Speaker 1: My friend is a divorce attorney and she got married
Speaker 1: and her husband they were at the altar and her husband,
Speaker 1: like previously, had asked her, she put this in her vows.
Speaker 1: Her husband asked her, like, you see all these people
Speaker 1: for years getting divorced or in the thick of it
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 3: What have you garnered? What have you learned? Like, well,
Speaker 3: what advice can you give us as we move towards marriage?
Speaker 1: And she said the one thing that she said to
Speaker 1: him was you need to marry somebody who not only
Speaker 1: does the right thing for you, but does the right
Speaker 1: thing for everybody. Yeah, when I was deeven heartbreak, I
Speaker 1: would find myself googling like how to feel better? And
Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't going to find anything, but I
Speaker 1: just like I was doing all the things. I trained
Speaker 1: for a triathlon, I did therapy, like I was being
Speaker 1: so proactive about the heartbreak.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to sit in it.
Speaker 1: No, And I'm wondering if you have found anything that
Speaker 1: you can share that you think actually helps.
Speaker 3: You got sit in the ship. I've been avoiding it.
Speaker 3: I avoided all the time. I dove into work, and
Speaker 3: my mom said, everywhere you go, you will follow. Your
Speaker 3: mom sounds so wise. She is so annoying enough stop stop.
Speaker 1: It with that being right's mom, I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a there was this movie with j Loo
Speaker 1: and Robert Redford on Netflix, and my mom came to
Speaker 1: visit me.
Speaker 3: I forget I think I was moving, and she kept
Speaker 3: she came and helped me move and we were in
Speaker 3: bed together and we left and I had to leave
Speaker 3: for an appointment, and she was like, I'm going to
Speaker 3: keep watching the movie. And I was like, okay, rude.
Speaker 3: And she's watching the movie and she's text me and
Speaker 3: she's like, call me after your meeting. And I said okay,
Speaker 3: and I called her. I'm like, hey, I'm on my
Speaker 3: way back. She's like, you know, I finished the movie.
Speaker 3: She's like, you know, j Loo in this movie she
Speaker 3: was in an abusive relationship, and my mom was like,
Speaker 3: you know, Robert Redford asked Jlo why she stayed with
Speaker 3: a man that hit her and she's, you know, I
Speaker 3: know that he was bad, but I didn't think I
Speaker 3: could do better. And I was quiet, and she's like,
Speaker 3: did you hear me? She stayed with somebody that she
Speaker 3: knew she was better than, but she didn't think that
Speaker 3: she could do better. And I was like, I heard you, mother.
Speaker 3: I'm like on sixth Avenue, like I cannot cry right now.
Speaker 3: But she was like, and we're watching. She's like and
Speaker 3: we watch her and we're like, she is so kind,
Speaker 3: she's so generous, she loves her daughter, she deserves the world.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't matter because she didn't think that she
Speaker 3: could do better than a man who beat the fuck
Speaker 3: out of her. And I think about that all the.
Speaker 1: Time when you think about it, because I think that
Speaker 1: that idea does not discriminate between women with confidence or without.
Speaker 3: It's not this. It's not the lack of confidence that.
Speaker 1: Spurs that. Like, there's women I've interviewed offline, like they're powerhouses,
Speaker 1: and they tell me about these like horrible relationships he's
Speaker 1: been in where men steal.
Speaker 3: Money from them, like things you would never think of.
Speaker 3: What gets us there? I mean, love is hopeful. You
Speaker 3: always love the person that you feel like they're loading
Speaker 3: to be, you know what I mean, there's a person
Speaker 3: that they are. The person that you fell in love
Speaker 3: with is rarely the person that you end up with.
Speaker 3: It's as hopefully love grows together as you guys discover
Speaker 3: each other, but it's rare, especially when you're with insecure
Speaker 3: men you know, or an insecure partner. I think heartbreaks
Speaker 3: like a really important part of love. So I have
Speaker 3: a few temporary temporary that's the thing that fucks you up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're in it, you don't feel like it
Speaker 1: is and it's very temporary. So I have a few
Speaker 1: rapid fire questions for you.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: Okay, A movie you put on when you're sad, the holiday.
Speaker 1: The worst betrayal is the worst betrayal is a mission.
Speaker 1: O mission is a form of a lie.
Speaker 3: I think I hate a person that lives on technicalities. Yes,
Speaker 3: I technically wasn't disrespectful. I technically didn't lie. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: you're technically a coward.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a celebrity couple that you like that you're
Speaker 1: rooting for Goldie Han and Kurt Russell love.
Speaker 3: Grand, romantic gesture, intimate romantic moment. I'm a Leo Moon.
Speaker 3: I need I need both me too. When I read that,
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, saying both your favorite date spot
Speaker 3: in New York, Oh, my favorite date spot in New
Speaker 3: York Central Park. I'm pretty, I'm pretty pretty? Uh. I
Speaker 3: love I love an outdoorsy picnic moment. But we have
Speaker 3: to be near the bathrooms. The bathrooms have to be
Speaker 3: like an eye distance. And please don't make me do that.
Speaker 3: I have a very weak bladder. We can't I can't
Speaker 3: piss myself in the bushes. Second, especially if we're drinking wine.
Speaker 1: Like, please, what's something that you see in yourself that
Speaker 1: you haven't shown the world yet?
Speaker 3: I think maybe how mean I can be? I can be?
Speaker 3: Will you show us? Well? People are like, what do
Speaker 3: you mean? I'm like, I'm a big sister. I can
Speaker 3: get creative. You know what? I mean, but I can
Speaker 3: definitely very I can definitely be vengeful. I can be vengeful.
Speaker 3: It's not something I'm proud of, but it is something
Speaker 3: where like I'm not going to let you walk around.
Speaker 3: I'm always going to get my lick back, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like that's what I mean by that.
Speaker 1: I also feel like that's Miami of you. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean it in the best way. A quality that
Speaker 1: you always look.
Speaker 3: For in a friend. Inclusion, Like if we're with other
Speaker 3: people and there's an inside joke and you turn to
Speaker 3: me like it's funny because I like that. I like
Speaker 3: that right now. Yeah. A book that changed your life,
Speaker 3: something you think everyone should read. Fantastic, mister Fox. It's
Speaker 3: my first chapter book. I have like thirteen different versions
Speaker 3: of it. I love that book so much. It was
Speaker 3: my first first like chapter book. I was like seven
Speaker 3: years old, and I think I've read it like a
Speaker 3: million times. I just love that care. I love solution
Speaker 3: based thinking, you know what I mean? I agree? Have
Speaker 3: you ever thought about becoming a therapist? Like, does it
Speaker 3: like every day of my life? Yeah? In your mind,
Speaker 3: I just be able to not get involved, and I
Speaker 3: think that's where that stops. I would love to be
Speaker 3: like a teacher, like a professor of something, Like I'd
Speaker 3: love to like teach something and that way I can
Speaker 3: get a little bit more involved. But like a therapist can't,
Speaker 3: like you know, like you can't hug your clients like
Speaker 3: unless but like I would be like to Bosom.
Speaker 1: Come here, Yeah, okay, card game fifty two questions. So
Speaker 1: because we're virtual, just tell me when to stop.
Speaker 3: Stop? What expert do you want lessons from? What expert
Speaker 3: do I want lessons from? There are a couple people
Speaker 3: that I have in my mind. One is Rita Moreno,
Speaker 3: who's like, you want to learn how to be an egot.
Speaker 3: I just feel like she was around in Hollywood where
Speaker 3: I'm sure or a lot happened and there's a Latin
Speaker 3: point of view that I really look for, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. And Michelle Levon Robinson Obama mm hm.
Speaker 3: I love her a lot, and I would love to
Speaker 3: talk to sad Mahayek for a while. I feel like
Speaker 3: she's just someone that tells you like it is, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and she's great enough to do
Speaker 3: it whatever comes to your mind. First, the smartest decision
Speaker 3: you've ever made, the smartest decision I've ever made was
Speaker 3: to go to that audition. The reason I'm on TikTok
Speaker 3: is because I went to this audition for YouTube. This
Speaker 3: company was like starting their own channels. They were looking
Speaker 3: for talent, and I was a receptionist. I was like
Speaker 3: twenty eight and I wasn't an actress. I'd never done anything.
Speaker 3: And everybody that was going were like food critics and
Speaker 3: bloggers and podcasters, and I was just like a receptionist.
Speaker 3: And I went and out of like one hundred people,
Speaker 3: I'm the only one that got the job. So I
Speaker 3: think that's the smartest thing I ever did. Was Like,
Speaker 3: I think you could do that, or people love to
Speaker 3: make things so complicated, like the training of it, the
Speaker 3: broadcast journalism of it, like the speech, how you talk
Speaker 3: or whatever. But there's an it for people that people
Speaker 3: look for, and I think it's like Zendea has it.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that I have that, but I think
Speaker 3: I know how to make people feel comfortable and I
Speaker 3: knew that I could do it. I knew that I
Speaker 3: could do it, and I just wasn't going to let
Speaker 3: people technicality my way out of thinking that way. So
Speaker 3: I think that's the smartest thing I ever did was
Speaker 3: like bet on myself that one time. And once you
Speaker 3: win that bet, you know what I mean, You're just like,
Speaker 3: what if I did this? So if it wasn't for that,
Speaker 3: I would have never uploaded my first TikTok if I didn't,
Speaker 3: if I was if I wasn't, like, let's roll the
Speaker 3: dice one more time. You did well the first time?
Speaker 3: You know, you listen to the whisper whatever it was
Speaker 3: right here, the whisper. Oh yeah, I call it my
Speaker 3: weeping willow like in Pocahontas. I like that well because
Speaker 3: I was a Disney girl. Yeah, and that was like
Speaker 3: the nicest fucking tree anyone ever fucking seen. I think.
Speaker 3: Sometimes not Sometimes every week I go and I visit
Speaker 3: teenage meet in our childhood bedroom and I tell her
Speaker 3: what we did that week. You do yeah, sublatively, it's
Speaker 3: like a yes, yes actively actively. I sit and I
Speaker 3: make time for it and I pretend cool. And sometimes
Speaker 3: at the end of it, she'll be like, are we happy?
Speaker 3: And I know that if I say no, then she's
Speaker 3: gonna beig them What the fuck is the point of
Speaker 3: me going through all that shit for? Because she hasn't
Speaker 3: done it yet, like telling somebody what like a what
Speaker 3: a racetrack is, what a marathon is going to look like,
Speaker 3: you know, like the uphills, the downhills, whatever. So I
Speaker 3: have to make it worthwhile for her to keep going
Speaker 3: because she's been dreaming, dreaming about me her whole life.
Speaker 3: She she like what I'm doing now, She's been thinking
Speaker 3: about her whole life, you know. So I think that's
Speaker 3: something too. Where I carry fifteen year old me around
Speaker 3: with me, so when it comes to the audition, I
Speaker 3: can hear her say like, fucket, who cares? You know?
Speaker 1: May our broken hearts fuel us? And now I'm about
Speaker 1: to play the most cliche song of all time.
Speaker 3: But don't tell me you don't love it. Today's a
Speaker 3: good day to have a good day, Go get it.
Speaker 3: At first I was afraid.
Speaker 4: I was petrified, kept thinking I could never live without you, Baysa.
Speaker 4: But then I spent so many nights thinking how you're
Speaker 4: getting your own?
Speaker 3: And I was wrong, and I learned how to get along.
Speaker 3: A Sorry about