1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky listener Discretion is advised. 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: In nineteen twelve, in Vliska, Iowa, a family of six 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: plus two of their guests were the victims of a 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: horrible axe murderer. This unspeakable crime took place as they 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: slept in their beds and horrified the small town of 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: two thousand people. Since then, the house has been dubbed 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: the Valiska Axe Murder House and is the site of 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: many paranormal happenings, attracting paranormal investigators from around the globe. 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Robert Larson is one such paranormal investigator from Rhinelander, Wisconsin. 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: In fourteen, he was investigating the Valiska Axe Murder House 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: with his parents. He told them he wanted to attempt 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: an experiment where he would recreate the scene the murderer 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: left following the horrible crime that took place there. He 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: asked them to leave him completely alone, but to monitor 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: the building from outside from their DVR cameras. Robert proceeded 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: to stage the home exactly as it had been found 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: the morning of the murders, including covering all the mirrors 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: with cloth, drawing the curtains, leaving a bloody bowl of 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 1: water in the kitchen, and even laying a large pile 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: of bacon on the kitchen counter. We'll talk about the 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: meaning of that later. The only thing Robert didn't have 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: was an axe, so he may do with a knife. 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: Robert lay down in one of the beds in the 25 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: downstairs bedroom and clutched the knife in his right hand. 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: Robert proceeded to call out to what he believed to 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: be the ghost of the killer in the dark. He 28 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: hurled horrible names and insults at the killer and provoked unrelentingly. 29 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: The last thing Robert remembers is a strange light anomaly 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: emerging from the closet in the room he was in 31 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: and heading straight for him. When he came to, the 32 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: knife he had been clutching was buried in his shoulder. 33 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: He was screaming, and his parents were calling for help. 34 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: Robert was severely injured. He was actually life lighted to 35 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: the nearest hospital, where he coated due to blood loss, 36 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: but thankfully revived. The police ruled that Robert did this 37 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: to himself, but to this day he swears otherwise. He 38 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: claims the knife was in his right shoulder at an 39 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: angle that would have been impossible for him to do himself, 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: and that even then he is right handed and had 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: the knife in his right hand. Try that for yourself. 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: Hold something in your right hand and try to reach 43 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: your right shoulder with enough force to bury a knife 44 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: in it. We will never know the answers as to 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: what happ been that night. Robert's actions were just out 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: of the camera frame, and his parents were so horrified 47 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: by what they heard on the recorder Robert was running 48 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: at the time that they destroyed it. Now I actually 49 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: interviewed Robert face to face. I expected to walk in 50 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: and find a man who may not be entirely truthful, 51 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: but I believe him. Whatever happened there that night has 52 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: left him a different person. And it was to this 53 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: day probably one of the most powerful interviews I've ever 54 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: conducted with someone. I think that was the first time 55 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: I had ever met someone who had had a paranormal encounter. 56 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: That made me question whether paranormal activity can actually be dangerous, 57 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: because I had never heard a story like this, and 58 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: the look in his eyes was one of just complete 59 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: and utter terror. Eventually we were able to to get 60 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Robert to return to the house, and I think that 61 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: was incredibly therapeutic moment for him that he needed. But 62 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: it was also in the middle of the day and 63 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: he was surrounded by people. I don't think you could 64 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: pay him enough to ever re enter that home by himself. 65 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Brunei and this is Haunted Road. Built in 66 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty on Lote t The house at five o 67 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: eight East Second Street in Viliska, Iowa is known by 68 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: a few names, the Josiah B. And Sarah Moore House, 69 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: the Vliska Axe Murder House, or just the Murder House. 70 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: Josiah by Moore and his family bought the house in 71 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: nineteen o three. Now Josiah was a pretty well known 72 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: businessman locally. He owned and operated a farm implement store 73 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: and was a successful and well regarded person. Also known 74 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: as Joe, he was a moderately prosperous and small town businessman, 75 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: raising a large family and a small play house. Joe 76 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: was a cheerful, well liked simple man who, in the 77 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: words of the Iowa Attorney General, was at peace with everybody. 78 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: Also in the home was his wife, Sarah Montgomery, who 79 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: was thirty nine. Herman Montgomery eleven, Mary Catherine ten, Arthur 80 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: Boyd seven, and Paul Vernon five. Now let's go back 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: to the summer of nine. You know, Vliska, Iowa was 82 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: this small town with a little over two thousand people, 83 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: and at that time in early June, the street lights 84 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: had actually been turned out due to a dispute between 85 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: the city and the power company over the cost of electricity. 86 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: So between that and overcast guys, Vliska was said to 87 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: have returned to a medieval darkness. Now that night in June, 88 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: Mary Catherine invited two of her friends, sisters Lena, Gertrude 89 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: and i Am. Lena was twelve and Eam eight, to 90 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: stay over at their house that night. The eight of 91 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: them got home between n and ten pm. In the 92 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: late hours of the ninth or the early hours of 93 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: the tenth of June, one or more persons entered the 94 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: More home and killed all eight people inside, the six 95 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: mores and the two still injured girls. The weapon of 96 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: choice or convenience was Josiah's axe, which had been left outside. 97 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: The killer walked past the two rooms where the children 98 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: were sleeping and bludgeoned Josiah, then Sarah with the flat 99 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: end of the axe while both were still sleeping. The 100 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: next room the killer visited was of the four More children. 101 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: Evidence indicates that all were asleep when they two were bludgeoned. 102 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: The ceilings and the parents and the chill Daurn's rooms 103 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: had gouge marks from the upswing. The final stop was 104 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: the room where the two still in Your sisters slept. 105 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: Lena maybe the only one who awoke before she was killed. 106 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: Early the next morning, neighbor Mary Peckham went about her 107 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: morning chores, but noticed that the Moors weren't doing the same. 108 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: When she knocked on the door and received no response, 109 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: she found it was locked. Peckham called on Ross Moore, 110 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: Josiah's brother. He tried to look into the house and 111 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: supposedly shouted, trying to alert his brother's family to his presence, 112 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: but there was no response. After finding the right skeleton key, 113 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: Ross entered the home and first found the bedroom on 114 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: the main floor where Lena and Ana had been sleeping. 115 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: According to testimony from Dr J. Clark Cooper, a physician 116 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: who was called to the More home that day, all 117 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: we could see was an arm of someone sticking from 118 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: under the edge of the cover, with the blood on 119 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: the pillows, and I went over and lifted the covers 120 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: and saw what I supposed was a body, some entire 121 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: stranger and a mere child at the back of the bed. 122 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: I did not recognize them at all, nor did anyone 123 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: else at the scene. The Marshal Henry Hank Horton was 124 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: called by Ross. Horton found somebody murdered in every bed. 125 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: Each body had been bludgeoned with the blunt side of 126 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: the axe roughly twenty to thirty times. Strange things stood 127 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: out to those who were first on the scene. According 128 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: to Johnny Houser, the current caretaker of the home and 129 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: a paranormal investigator, all the mirrors and windows in the 130 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: house were covered. The oil lamps were placed at the 131 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,119 Speaker 1: edge of the beds. The moor's drawers had been ransacked 132 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: in order to find coverings for the mirrors and windows. 133 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: All the windows except for two had their curtains drawn. 134 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: The two remaining ones did not have curtains, so we're 135 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: covered with material found within the house. The kitchen table 136 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: held a plate of uneaten food and a bowl of 137 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: bloody water, probably where the murderer washed. The axe had 138 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: been partially cleaned and was found in the room where 139 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: the Stillinger sisters had slept. Next to the axe, there 140 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: was a nearly two pounds slab of bacon. A second 141 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: slab was in the ice box. Now. As far as suspects, remarkably, 142 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: the Vliska murders remain unsolved to this day. However, that's 143 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: not to say there weren't plenty of suspects. Most notably 144 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: was a man by the name of Reverend Kelly. He 145 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: had actually attended the Sunday school service that took place 146 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: the evening of the murders. He left on an early 147 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: morning train before the bodies were even discovered. He acted 148 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: strangely in the weeks following the murders, including returning to 149 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: Vliska two weeks later and pretending to be an investigator 150 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: with the Scotland Yard. It wasn't until five years later 151 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: that he was tried for the crime, and while he 152 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: did confess twice, he was ultimately acquitted. But what strikes 153 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: me most about him is his confession. He claims to 154 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: have had insomnia the night of the murders and to 155 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: have walked to the nearby Presbyterian church. While alone in 156 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: the church, I heard a voice. It said, go further. 157 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: I went out and walked to the end of the street, 158 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: where I saw a shadow, which beckoned me to follow. 159 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: The shadow led me to the rear of the moor house. 160 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: I saw an axe on a rubbish heap. I picked 161 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: the axe up by the handle. The voice again spoke, saying, 162 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: go on, follow the shadow, slay utterly. At some point 163 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: during the confession, Kelly explained the text slay utterly had 164 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: been in my mind before the murders and has been 165 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: ringing in my ears ever since. I have had a 166 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: hard time resisting the impulse to slay. My soul is 167 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: relieved now for the first time in five years. Slay utterly. 168 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: Now think about that, He describes being almost in a 169 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: trance like state, and for some reason, that reminds me 170 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: so much of what happened to Robert Larson. I spent 171 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: multiple nights investigating the Vliska Axe murder house, and I 172 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: have to say it's one of those places that quite 173 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: literally still haunts me to this day. I just had 174 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble going into the space, merely because 175 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: of what happened there and the ages of the victims. 176 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: But it's honestly kind of a serene little house when 177 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: you're there during the day, the light beams in, it's 178 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: very bright. And the way I handled it was I 179 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: kept reminding myself that the way the family and the 180 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: still and your sisters died did not define them, that 181 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time in that home with wonderful, 182 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: happy memories, because I do feel like sometimes we go 183 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: into a place where a terrible tragedy has happened, and 184 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: we focus so much on that that we forget that 185 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: people actually lived in that space before, and how much 186 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: more powerful living is than the moment of death. And 187 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: so that's how I was able to cope with it. 188 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: But I do feel like something very strange is going 189 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: on there. I am not sure if it is the 190 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: ghost of the murderer revisiting the space, or if it 191 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: is something somehow created by all of the investigators and 192 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: visitors and people who kind of go there and infuse 193 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: it with thoughts of the murders, or if it's the 194 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: ghosts of the family themselves. But I will say that 195 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: it is one of the only places that I do 196 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: question whether it is entirely safe for everyone. So I 197 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: do caution any investigators going into that house to respect it. 198 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: It's incredibly important to always have respect when investigating, but 199 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: especially in the Vliska Axe Murder House, because none of 200 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 1: us want to end up the way Robert Larson did. 201 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: After a quick break, I'm going to interview Johnny Houser. 202 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: Johnny is a paranormal investigator and is actually the caretaker 203 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: of the Vliska Axe Murder House. He has a lot 204 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: of great stories about the place, but also has some 205 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: intriguing ideas and insight as to why the house is 206 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: still haunted. So I am now joined by Johnny Houser, 207 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: who is the I guess resident paranormal investigator at the 208 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: Veliska House. Would that be your title? Yeah, I'm kind 209 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: of a all titles with the hex House, the tour guide, 210 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: the overnight guy, the website guy, the lawnmowering guy. Like, 211 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: oh yeah, jack of all trades, Jack of all trades 212 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: for that house. I'm the Norman Bates of the Axemer House. 213 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: And so you actually live right next door? Is that correct? Yeah? 214 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: I live right next door um in Mary Peckham's house. 215 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: And she, of course was the neighbor that initially found 216 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: or noticed something was wrong at the house next door, 217 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: which is interesting because the more children used to play 218 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: over in my house. I mean Mary was like a 219 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: grandma to them. Oh, so there's a major connection there. 220 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: We we kind of have found that interestingly enough at 221 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: the Lizzie Borden House as well, because there were children 222 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: that lived next door to the Lizzie Borden House that 223 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: used to play in the Lizzie Borden House that knew Lizzie. 224 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: So it's interesting these kind of coralations between these two 225 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: very brutal Axe murders. Absolutely, you know, And there are 226 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: some stories that have happened at my house with my 227 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: daughter and stuff that kind of made me wonder if 228 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: they can go, you know, back and forth between the houses. Um, 229 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: and I just to tell the story real quick, my 230 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: daughter text me. I don't know why she texted me, 231 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: but at like three am, and I happened to wake 232 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: up and hear my phone to the dad. I'm stuck 233 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: in the bathroom and I'm hearing humming and crying. I thought, 234 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: what not get up And the door was stuck, but 235 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: it probably was from humidity or whatever. And the next 236 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: day I was like, I'm going to get ahold of 237 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: the overnights at the Ax house to see if they 238 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: were outside and that's what she was hearing, and them 239 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: being ghost runners, they had everything logged down to the minute, 240 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, and they're like, no, we were in the 241 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: attic at this time. It's like, Okay, it wasn't them. 242 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: But then they came back with the house was super active, 243 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: except for right then it was strangely quiet. So I thought, 244 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: could that have been the kids coming over here because 245 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: it's familiar to them, right. That's interesting now, that kind 246 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: of gamut of activity. Do you find that the activity 247 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: in the house is more extreme at certain times or 248 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: is it with certain people? Like what do you think 249 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: triggers what goes on there. I've spent decades at the house, 250 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: you know. I've done over fo overnights alone, and right 251 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: off the bat, I was looking for patterns. There has 252 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: to be a pattern in this somewhere, and I've looked 253 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: for patterns in birthdays, anniversaries, moon phases, the eclipse. While 254 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: everybody's outside staring at it, I'm doing an e VP 255 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: session in the axe house, you know, trying to see 256 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: if that does anything, and I found nothing. I found 257 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason to it. I do see that 258 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: there is a correlation with people sometimes. Interestingly enough, nurses 259 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: and teachers seem to have a lot of good luck 260 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: in there, and I think it takes a certain person 261 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: to do those jobs. I couldn't do it. I couldn't 262 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: be a nursery teacher. You know. It's not for the money, obviously, 263 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: like it's for the passion, and they're passionate people, and 264 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: they're very loving people, and I think that resonates with 265 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: the spirits. So I think probably the hardest part for 266 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: me investigating Veliska is that it gets in my head 267 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot just kind of what went on there. Um. 268 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: You know, obviously I'm a mom, but I don't think 269 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: it's just mom's I think anybody is completely bothered at 270 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: the idea of a number of children being killed so brutally. 271 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: And how do you kind of separate yourself as you 272 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: work in that space every day? How do you separate 273 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: yourself between what went on there and and then also 274 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: what your job is there? You know, it's I totally 275 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: get it. I totally get how horrible it is. It's terrible. 276 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: I wish it, like I hate the Axe Murder House 277 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,239 Speaker 1: more than anyone, you know, I hate what happened there. 278 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: I wish it didn't even exist, but it does. And 279 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: I think that these these kids should have laughed and 280 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: played and grew up and fell in love and had 281 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: their own children, but they were robbed of that. If 282 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: I can tell their story and keep them alive in 283 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: that way, I think it's totally worth it. Um well, 284 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: not worth what happened, but worth what I do for 285 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: a living. One thing that gives me a lot of excitement, 286 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: it's probably twice a month I'll have the thirteen year 287 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 1: old little girl. It's never the little boys. It's always 288 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: the little girls that come up and they tell me 289 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: when I graduate high school, I'm going to this college 290 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: for forensic science because this inspired me. And I'm like, wow, 291 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: if a tragedy can be turned into a positive and 292 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: it lights a fire under this young mind to stop 293 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: one crime, that's amazing. But also, you know, it's if 294 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: I wasn't there doing it, I'm afraid somebody else would 295 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: be there that would make it a joke, make it 296 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: a circus attraction. And I know that I do it 297 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: with love and compassion for the crimes that happened was 298 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: poor little kids in that family. But on the flip side, 299 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm not convinced they're even there, right, And that's something 300 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about as well. So I have. Um, 301 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: I've investigated there for a few nights, and I didn't 302 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: really find any evidence of the children, but I do 303 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: know that many people have. Uh. And then we did 304 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: have an experience that we felt might have been with 305 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: something more I don't like to say negative, but some 306 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: some someone or something that was a little more angry 307 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: and a little more malicious. And you know, your thoughts 308 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: go to, this must be the ghost of the murderer, 309 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: you know, but what what do you think that is? 310 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: Who do you think that is? I think that everywhere 311 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: on this planet where something horrible has happened, it leaves 312 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: that negative imprint. It's just like you walk into a 313 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: room where someone had an argument. You feel that negative energy. 314 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: It's very real, and it lingers. This place had an 315 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: atom bomb of negative energy dropped on it. Could that 316 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: negative energy manifest as whatever it wants to be a 317 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: little kid? You know, there's a lot of things that 318 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: happened to me aren't something a little kid from nine 319 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: twelve would be doing. Assuming we keep the same personality 320 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: and death as we do life, you know. Um, But 321 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: then I go even further back to was something here 322 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: before the murders even happened, the shadow that gave Reverend 323 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: Kelly an Ax. Nobody's talking about shadow figures in eighteen 324 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, I can remember in the eighties they were aliens, 325 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: then their innerdimensional time travelers, and now they're who knows what. 326 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: Was there something in the house beforehand? Maybe a shadow 327 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: gave Reverend Kelly an Ax preyed on him because he 328 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: wasn't quite mentally stable at the time. I mean, he 329 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: was schizophrenic and back then with no medicine or under 330 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: standing of the the illness. You know, is there something 331 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: in there that praise on people that aren't firmly rooted 332 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: in their faith or extremely strong minded when they go 333 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: into buildings like this and start yelling and screaming and 334 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: trying to get stuff to happen. And I also kind 335 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: of feel like the places like a mirror. It just 336 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: reflects back to you what you put into it. If 337 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: you go in there positive, it's going to give you positive. 338 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: If you go in there with the come at me thing, 339 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's like good luck with that. Because I'll 340 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: watch overnights and these are legit paranormal investigators that take 341 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: it serious. They know how to debunk. They know what 342 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: a wind or what's it a knock? You know, normal 343 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: house settling noise. The one group will run out terrified 344 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: at eleven PM, leave half their gear. I gotta mail 345 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: it back to them. And then the next night they'll 346 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: be like, Oh, is the most positive experience I've ever had. 347 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: I felt a little child hugged me and I teared up, 348 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: And how is this the same location? Right? I mean, 349 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: I think that just in general, hauntings react to the 350 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: vibe in the space, you know, and and that goes 351 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: for the living and the dead. You know, you can 352 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: have a really great dinner party happening, and then a 353 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: guest can arrive who's just a total downer and shift 354 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: the entire mood of what's happening in the room. And 355 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: I think if you apply that to paranormal investigation as well, 356 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: you will get those kind of results from from the 357 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: spirits or from whatever that energy is there. So that 358 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: kind of leads me to experiences that you've you've personally 359 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: had or that you've heard of in the house. Can 360 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: you kind of go through maybe a couple just very 361 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: powerful experiences or things that you would you would describe 362 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: as as something scary or or you know what I mean. 363 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: I just I'm curious. I want to I want to 364 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: give listeners kind of the vibe of the house because 365 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: I experienced the gamut there. I experienced that kind of 366 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: pow at a moment and the negative moments. I'm just 367 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: wondering if you could kind of pass on some of those. 368 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: Oh Man, over fifteen years being in this place, I've seen, 369 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, just the normal footsteps, door open and closing 370 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: there for like a month. There's a lot of poltergeist 371 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: activity of things stacking and arranging, which is odd because 372 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: nobody lives there at all. It's just a empty place. 373 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: I've seen the positive, I've seen the negative. One of 374 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: the most profound things that I've ever experienced. It was 375 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: a Friday night the overnight's camp sold for whatever reason. 376 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: So I thought, I'm just gonna go in fix some 377 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: some things in the upstairs bedroom, lock the kitchen doors 378 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: and nobody could walk in. And as I'm up there, 379 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: somebody walks in the house and I'm like, come on, 380 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: people were closed. It's like, well, obviously, idiot, they broke in, 381 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, because it's like a nighttime and I thought, 382 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: they have no idea. I'm upstairs, so I'm going to 383 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: have fun with this. And I hid in the kid's 384 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: room closet, and this plan was to scare this kid 385 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: jump out, you know, and just do that while you're 386 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: breaking and if you want to see it, I'll just 387 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: show it to you. So the walking around downstairs for 388 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: like ten minutes, it comes upstairs into the room I'm in. 389 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,479 Speaker 1: I kicked the closet door open to the big blah, nothing, 390 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: there's nothing. And I couldn't even move, I couldn't talk. 391 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: The I always heard, you know, I felt a rush 392 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: of cold air. I thought, yeah, everybody says that I've 393 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: never experienced it. At that time, I did. I checked 394 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: the whole house, the door was locked, and watched a 395 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: surveillance video. There's nothing. And what really got me was, 396 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: at no time during this whole thing transpiring did I 397 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: think a ghost. It was somebody broken the house, because 398 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: it was so loud and so blatant and so obvious 399 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: that there was no no debunking that. So, I mean, 400 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: somebody walked in the house and up the stairs. And 401 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: I've seen, you know, a lot of like Amityville quality 402 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: of the house, of mental mental manipulation, and I've experienced 403 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: that in there to where and especially in the downstairs 404 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: bedroom Mine and Lena's were where you just kind of 405 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: zone and out and pretty soon you're just like out 406 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: of it. You go out of the house and you know, 407 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: it's like an hour or two later you like start 408 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: coming back to normal. And that's a that's a very 409 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: scary part of the house for me. I know what 410 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: it can do, so I don't push it anymore. Well, 411 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: that leads me to, uh, to Robert Larson, who we 412 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: were able to interview when Adam and I investigated there, 413 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: And I walked into that interview ready to not believe 414 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: him or ready to kind of find a way to 415 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: disprove his story. And I guess I just didn't really 416 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: have any idea how extreme it actually was, because I'm 417 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: sure you remember when the story started going around in 418 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: the paranormal circles with what happened with him, it was 419 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: very oh yeah, this guy cut himself to to get 420 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: the spirits to come out. And when we actually spoke 421 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: with him and I found out he actually bled out 422 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: and had to be you know, life lighted to a 423 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: hospital and coded like it was so much more extreme 424 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: than that, and that happened in that bedroom. So do 425 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: you think he was kind of a victim of that, 426 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: like mental manipulation. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's the 427 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: second time he'd been there, and I get to know 428 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: these people pretty well, and I mean he he just 429 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: seemed like a normal dude, you know, just a normal guy. 430 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: And I remember I remember him saying I'm going to 431 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: give the house a piece of my mind tonight. I'm like, 432 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: hey boy, you know, but I hear that like a 433 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: million times a year. And so I go home and 434 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: I wake up and I'm tagged and all this stuff 435 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: on social media. I walk over there and you know, 436 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: I find out what happened. I didn't even want to 437 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: go in the house, honestly. I made two friends come 438 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: over with me to walk in, and it was I 439 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, that's one of those experiences walking 440 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: in that house right after it happened. And I'll never forget. 441 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: I felt so bad for him because I was reading 442 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: all these things of he did it to be on TV, 443 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: or he did it to be rich, or he cut 444 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: himself to get the ghosts to do stuff, or I 445 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: read one where he stabbed himself multiple times in the 446 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: stomach in the yard. I'm like, what, you know, so 447 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: many rumors, but until you sit and you know, I mean, 448 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: you guys know to sit in this room and talk 449 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: to this guy and feel his sincerity. I don't know 450 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: what happened, but I know that I've experienced moments in 451 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: that house to where you're just kind of out of it, 452 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: and luckily i've left. That really struck me talking to Robert. 453 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: It's funny because I wasn't aware that other people had 454 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: that kind of mental moment in that room. And that's 455 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: really exactly what he described was this kind of he 456 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of drifted off. He first, he initially was swearing 457 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: at the killer and as you know, you know, he 458 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: set everything up exactly like the killer left it, and 459 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: he started swearing and yelling at the killer by while 460 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: he was laying on one of the beds in that room, 461 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: and he said, he just like a feeling overtook him, 462 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: and he looked over at the closet and he saw 463 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: this large light anomaly come toward him, and then he 464 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: blacked out and the next thing he remembers was waking 465 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: up screaming with the knife in his shoulder. And that 466 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: really just kind of puts into perspective. It really went 467 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: against everything I'd ever thought about the paranormal, because you know, 468 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: I I've always it's the one time I've ever been like, 469 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: this could be a dangerous situation if you don't go 470 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: into this with a strong mind. Um, not that he 471 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: doesn't have a strong mind, but just you know that 472 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: you feel strong as you go in and not put 473 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: yourself into a vulnerable position. So after that happened, did 474 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: you guys have to or did you have to put 475 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: any rules in place? Or do you warn people before 476 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: they investigate? Martha actually said, can you put no weapons 477 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 1: please on the website? And I'm just like, do we 478 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: need to do that? Like, you know, I feel like 479 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: that's pretty self explanatory. Um, as far as myself, we 480 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: get a lot of I see a lot of young 481 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: new paranormal investigators popping up, which is really exciting for me. 482 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: But they'll come to the AX House and like, we 483 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: just started a team last month, this is our first investigation, 484 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: and I'm like, uh, okay, so I'll spend a little 485 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: extra time with them to warn them, you know, like 486 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: if somebody starts feeling weird or anything, like, go outside, 487 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: take a breath, don't push the issue in this place. 488 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: And I always remind everybody that's investigating, I'll end it 489 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: with like, just remember what happened here. Little kids were murdered, 490 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, come about it with some respect. So I 491 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: just try and one on one, look im in the face, 492 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: and you know, just tell them, like, be respectful about it. 493 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: Don't push yourself this this place is no joke, you know. 494 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: And I hope that they take a little part of 495 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: that and roll with it. Of course, you're going to 496 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: have some people that don't, and there's no way of 497 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: weeding those people out, you know what I mean, right exactly. 498 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: Have you had any other kind of close calls like that, 499 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: or or or incidents where you felt it could kind 500 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: of go south again or do you think that was 501 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: just a one off moment. I believe it could go 502 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: south at any time. I think it's all the intent 503 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: of the people going in there. I've had, you know, 504 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: paranormal investigators that's been there times leave within an hour 505 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: and they're like it was just off. Something just felt off, 506 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: like something bad was about to happen, so we thought 507 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: we just wouldn't push it. Do you feel like you've 508 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: kind of developed a relationship with the house over the years. Um, 509 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, you've been there for so long now, and 510 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: and where do you see yourself going? Do you see 511 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: yourself staying there forever? Or like, I mean, do you 512 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: feel some kind of like you owe it to a 513 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: house in some way? I mean, at this point, it's 514 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: been so long, yeah, I mean I have a I 515 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: found a picture of my son and I in the 516 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: attic and he barely came up past my knee, a 517 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: little little boy. And he's out of college and getting 518 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: married now, you know. So it's like, wow, I've been 519 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: there a long time. And then as weird as it sounds, 520 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: and I've talked to other people that you know, have 521 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: haunted locations or things of this nature, and they feel 522 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: very attached to it. I almost feel like big brother 523 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: in a weird way, like protector of the house, you know. 524 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: After the stabbing went down, I walked in and I said, hey, like, 525 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: I gotta work here, leave me alone. I'll leave you alone. 526 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: We've gotta have some boundaries going on. And then I 527 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: was like, you need me here because if I'm not here, 528 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: you don't have a revolving cast of people to mess 529 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: around with, you know, it's like trying to bargain a 530 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: little bit. But I'm just so attached to the history 531 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: in the house. I'll always have something to do with 532 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: the ex House in the future. Um, whether it's just 533 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: on the back end of it. You know. I'd never 534 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: say I'm always going to do something for the rest 535 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: of my life, because opportunities come, what what not, you know, 536 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: but I'll probably always have something to do with the 537 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: ex house, if anything, just making sure it's ran the 538 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: way it should be ran, right. I mean, Flisk is 539 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: such an interesting little town, you know, Having been there 540 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: and spent multiple days there, I love how you can 541 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: walk into a store or the pharmacy or something and 542 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: they instantly just ask, oh, are you here to see 543 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: the murder House, like they know they know who is 544 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: in town. And why do you think that they're always 545 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: going to keep it open like that? Do you think 546 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: it's good for the town or do you think that 547 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: at some point it might become a private residence. Again, well, 548 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: it's on the historic Registry, so it's always going to 549 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: be a historic landmark. It's not going anywhere. I don't 550 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: don't foresee anyone ever wanting to live in it. It's 551 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: great for what it is, but you know, we're talking 552 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: house built in the eighties. There's gaps above the door, 553 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: there's no insulation, let alone what happened there. You know. Unfortunately, 554 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: I don't think it'll ever be a home again. A house, yes, 555 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: but not a home. I think it's good for the town, 556 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, it brings a lot of people here, and 557 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: those people always go to the gas station or they'll 558 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: go out to eat while they're here. I've had the 559 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: people that own the diner say thank you for having 560 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: this open, because if it wasn't, we would not be 561 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: able to open on weekends just because we don't have 562 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: enough people coming in. It quite literally attracts people from 563 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: all over the world. I mean, people travel from everywhere. 564 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: They feel there's a draw to it, and I don't 565 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: necessarily think it's a negative draw. It's it's a curiosity thing, 566 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: but it's also just so notoriously haunted that people, you know, 567 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: like to kind of cross it out. It's it is 568 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: a bucket list item for many paranormal investigators. But what 569 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: about just historically, do you get a lot of people 570 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: who come in for tours during the day as well? Oh. Absolutely. 571 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: Going back to the people around the world. I just 572 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: had a guy from Vietnam come doing overnight. Actually, he 573 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: was doing a podcast and it was only going to 574 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: be in the house for like three hours or something. 575 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what was happening, but he was 576 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: talking about how popular the house is in Vietnam. You say, 577 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: acts and everybody knows. Veliska like what. He's like, oh, yeah, 578 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: very popular. I'm like, wow, that's cool. You know, it's 579 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: neat that it's reached over there, that their story is 580 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: being told in Vietnam. It's amazing to me. But as 581 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: far as the people, I mean, our day tours are booming. 582 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: This year has been horrible, but has been for everyone right. 583 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: I would say, are people in the true crime Iowa's 584 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: oldest cold case and it's people get so attached to 585 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: what happened because of the children. I believe we have 586 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: this group of senior citizen ladies that every month they 587 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: choose a crime, a cold case, and they try and 588 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: solve it themselves. You know, they'll come down to the 589 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: house as far as overnights. It's a lot of families, mom, dad, kids, 590 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: mom and dad or the mom and kids love the 591 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: paranormal shows. The dad's here to drive and pay for 592 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing, you know, that seems to be a 593 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: big part of it. We'll get six women that's known 594 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: themselves their entire lives, and once a year they do 595 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: something wacky together, just come to the Axe House. And 596 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: I love that because there's always bottles of wine in 597 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: the dumpster afterwards. And the reason I love that is 598 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: because they're having the time of their life. They're laughing 599 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: until they cry, you know, they're catching up, they're sharing memories, 600 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: and that house needs laughing and love and memories in it. 601 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: You know. That's why I love that. And then we'll 602 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: get the paranormal groups. But it's it's not all that. 603 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: I'd say it's fifty fifty A lot of true crime 604 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: enthusiasts and a lot of people that see Axe Murder 605 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: House sign on the highway. What in the world is this? 606 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: I had one guy, and I get this quite a bit. 607 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: A guy came down. He was in a company car 608 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: and a company suit and he just stood there for 609 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: a while asking questions. I was like, well, you can 610 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: go on in the house walk around, and he's like, 611 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to, Okay, So what can we do? 612 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: He goes, well, I just lost my faith in any 613 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: god or anything, and I wanted to come to the 614 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: house just to see if I felt something. I thought, wow, 615 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool because I sat there and talked about 616 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: what I believe and you know, and just my thoughts 617 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: on life after death. A lot of people that come 618 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: to the house have lost someone and just looking for something, 619 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: an answer for life after death. Usually I will start 620 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: with my tour and I'll give this the history spiel, 621 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: and then afterwards they come up and we just talk. 622 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: We just talked for an hour, you know, and I 623 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: love it. It's interesting that something so tragic can kind 624 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: of produce so many positives down the line. You know. 625 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 1: It's clearly was something very awful it happened, but we're 626 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: so far removed from it now time wise. Sometimes things 627 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: like that just fade into obscurity. And yet here you 628 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: have this, this story that just keeps going and inspiring 629 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: people strangely in very different ways. Now, what I'd love 630 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: to ask you, just because we got some evidence and 631 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: we investigated there that kind of uh we thought might 632 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 1: have some clues as to who actually committed the crime. 633 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: Who who do you think did it? Who do I 634 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: think did it? For some reason, I think Reverend Kelly 635 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: was somewhat involved. Whether he did it or he happened 636 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: in the house after it was over, I have no idea. 637 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: But I've really been on a big kick of an 638 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: early traveling serial killer because you have so many and 639 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: you know, we do a lot of early tours before 640 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: we open, which are Supreme Court judges for continuing education 641 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: classes law enforcement colleges, so we do a lot of 642 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: educational as well. But the group of Supreme Court judges 643 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: were very much on the early traveling serial killer kick 644 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: as well. Who was the gentleman who was found? He 645 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: basically he killed his family later on, um, what was 646 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: his name, Henry Lee Moore? I believe it is the 647 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: guy you're talking about killed his mom and grandma two 648 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: months after this, right, and then he was found. It 649 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: was found the same way that the mirrors were covered 650 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: and everything, and he was I feel like he was 651 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: in Chicago or something. I can't remember exactly, but well, 652 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: there was a blackie man's field. But he produced a 653 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: work punching like handwritten hours he was working ticket as 654 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: an alibi. But like this is five years after the fact, yeah, 655 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: why would he have that. There was also a Henry 656 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: Lemore who killed his mom and grandma in Columbia, Missouri, 657 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,240 Speaker 1: two months after this, But it was so badly done 658 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: and he killed his mom and grandma for inheritance money. 659 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: You know, I had motive all over it. And he 660 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: got caught immediately. But yeah, I mean, there's so many suspects, 661 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: and one thing that I think people don't quite grasp 662 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: is detectives question people for five years. Five years is 663 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: a long time, and a lot of gossip in a 664 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: small town about a murder. There were hundreds of suspects, 665 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: old man so and so it was weird he did it, 666 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, which went nowhere? But f Jones, Andy Sawyer, 667 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,439 Speaker 1: Blackie Mansfield went nowhere. Nobody went anywhere. And I've gone 668 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,959 Speaker 1: through twenty years of letters, f Jones wrote his daughter 669 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: in New York. I've thumbed through his personal bible. I 670 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 1: found nothing like these detectives did a great job. There's 671 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: no leads really anywhere except for Reverend Kelly confessing. H 672 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: But and one thing that kind of goes back. It's 673 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: like in his confession he said that he felt like 674 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: he was in a dream state and like he was 675 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: being led to do things beyond his own control, which 676 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: really creeps me out about the stabbing that happened and 677 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: everything else, you know, And I think that's why I 678 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: keep going back to him. I mean, it's just every day. 679 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: I've thought about this for fifteen plus years, and I 680 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: have no idea. Well, I mean, I think even the 681 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: ghosts could tell us, and we still wouldn't know for sure. 682 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: You know. I always wonder if we're going to get 683 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,879 Speaker 1: a name one day, or if we're going to get 684 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: some sort of communication from them telling us who the 685 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: murderer was. But even then, you know, would we believe it? 686 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: You know, I think that without any solid evidence, which 687 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: I don't think it is ever going to happen, I 688 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: think this will probably remain unsolved. I appreciate your time. 689 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for telling us about the house. Thank you 690 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: for conveying your experiences. I know that the house is 691 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: currently open for tours, correct. Yeah, well, it'll be open 692 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: for tours to come probably March for day tours, overnights 693 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: or year round, so you can book an overnight anytime 694 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: you want. Okay, great, and then where can people find you? 695 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: Just Johnny Houser on Facebook Instagram, all the social media 696 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: is just backslash. Johnny Houser, great well, I can't wait 697 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: to see you in person again. Hopefully we'll be back 698 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: out there at events soon. And thank you so much 699 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: for chatting with us. Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course, 700 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: I think that after my own experiences at the veliska 701 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: Ax Murder House and going further into its history, plus 702 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: my conversation with Johnny, I can say that while I 703 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,760 Speaker 1: believe the home is very traditionally haunted, there is something 704 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: even more mysterious than that at play there. I also 705 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: think it's telling that throughout my interview with Johnny he 706 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: never used the word murder to describe the house, and 707 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: maybe that is a queue we should all take. Maybe 708 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: we should start looking at that home for what it 709 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: was and what it is now and not necessarily let 710 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: it be defined by one dark day of nineteen twelve. 711 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I look forward to our next journey 712 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: down a haunted road. Haunted Road is a production of 713 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. 714 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive 715 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The 716 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. 717 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts from 718 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 719 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.