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Speaker 1: Hi, Hi, cat Ra Hi. What a whirl?

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Speaker 2: Was that an echo? Is that my voice bouncing off

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Speaker 2: the walls right back into my throat where it belongs.

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Speaker 3: We were just like turning into the same person.

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Speaker 2: A whirlwind of a weekend.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you had an amazing show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for coming. Two amazing shows. That's the Pantages

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Speaker 2: in La and everyone came out. It was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I was I felt like my wedding.

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Speaker 3: Everyone was there.

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Speaker 2: I was at two nights of that though. The Haley

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Speaker 2: party was twice as long as the show night. And

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Speaker 2: then I had Phoenix on Saturday night and we're on

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Speaker 2: the plane there and I said to Carla, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: is there anyone coming backstage? She's like, not one single person.

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Speaker 3: I was like, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: We were in and out of there.

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Speaker 4: We grabbed our tacos and left. I was like, let's

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Speaker 4: get out all. Oh, that's so exciting. Yeah, there were

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Speaker 4: a lot of friends of the show. There, a lot

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Speaker 4: of people who have guested on the show, and it

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Speaker 4: was wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my family came. I walked outside and said a

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Speaker 2: lobby for the after party, and my aunt was there.

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Speaker 2: She hates everybody she hates all social gatherings. She hates

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Speaker 2: the public. The fact that she came out to my

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Speaker 2: show and patages was so sweet. It brought tears to

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Speaker 2: my eyes. All my cousins came, all my friends from

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Speaker 2: Chelsea that my old show on Netflix were there. It

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Speaker 2: was so fun, such a nice Oh, it was really great. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I'm coming this weekend, you guys. Tickets are still available.

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Speaker 2: Cleveland is Friday night, Columbus is Saturday night, and Pittsburgh

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Speaker 2: is Sunday night. All three nights of those still have

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Speaker 2: tickets available, So if you're in the areas, come to

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Speaker 2: my show.

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Speaker 3: Very exciting. Yeah, it's a fantastic show.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, so fun to perform.

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Speaker 2: I'm having the best time on the road. It's a

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Speaker 2: big party.

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Speaker 3: How's your energy level this tour?

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Speaker 2: It's good. I mean, as long as I have a

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Speaker 2: day where I can Just like last night, I went

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Speaker 2: to bed at around seven, I went to the Angel

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Speaker 2: City soccer game then so fun. Yeah, with Glenna Doyle

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Speaker 2: and Abbey and I brought Jamie makeup and we all

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Speaker 2: went and it was fucking awesome. They won. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: now they're going to the championships. Or the playoffs or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know soccer jargon, but it was really fun

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Speaker 2: to be there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all my lesbian friends have like season passes to that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all the lesbians are get down to get me.

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Speaker 2: They know that it's a matter of time before I

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Speaker 2: transition into a lesbian and that I make my way

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Speaker 2: over to that world. I told them, like, I still

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Speaker 2: have like at least one hundred men left to exhaust

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Speaker 2: before I make a commitment, but clearly I'm on my way.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just waiting exactly exactly, waiting patiently.

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Speaker 3: Incredible. So our guest today is kind of everywhere right now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, she's everywhere, and now she's here. Her

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Speaker 2: name is Jada Pinkett Smith and her book is called Worthy. Okay,

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Speaker 2: well we have lots to cover on this topic because

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Speaker 2: I just read this book in one day and everybody

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Speaker 2: is going to want to get their hands on it.

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Speaker 2: It's called Worthy by Jada Pinkett Smith and it is

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Speaker 2: her Well, it's her life story. And I have learned

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Speaker 2: so much about you that I did not know, And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, how did I not know that? And I

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Speaker 2: was like, well, I guess you don't know these things

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Speaker 2: about everybody. You know, you don't know everybody's per most

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Speaker 2: personal things. And but I think let's start at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Because you grew up in the hood. Yeah, well partly

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Speaker 2: partly in the hut. Yeah, well you grew towards the hook.

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Speaker 1: I grew Yeah, it was like part of my life.

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Speaker 5: I think once I turned about thirteen and my grandmother

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Speaker 5: passed and it was just me and my mom, and

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Speaker 5: that's when things took a turn.

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Speaker 2: Things took a turn. Yeah, your mother for you, yep.

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Speaker 2: And your dad rob sul rop suol robool Okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: really ropsul, but he would say rough stool rub school. Okay.

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Speaker 2: But I had no idea that you grew up in

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Speaker 2: that environment that you were a heroin dealer.

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Speaker 1: No, it was cocaine.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it was cocaine.

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Speaker 1: It was cocaine. My mother was a heroin addict. But

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Speaker 1: I was selling cocaine.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I was kind of hoping it was a heroin dealer.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure why, probably because I once dated a

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Speaker 2: heroin dealer and I was confusing the two. But okay,

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Speaker 2: so you were a cocaine dealer and that was what age?

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Speaker 2: What age were you when you did.

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Speaker 5: That from about fifteen to seventeen, and that was a

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Speaker 5: way for you to make things right in your neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: You were being pretty neglected at home, right, and you

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Speaker 2: were just basically a survivalist, but not even a survivalist.

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Speaker 2: You you were into that lifestyle of living there, like

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Speaker 2: you wanted to stay in Baltimore. You were going to

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Speaker 2: the Baltimore School of Arts Arts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to Baltimore School for the Arts. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so talk to me about the headspace of

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Speaker 2: that little girl.

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Speaker 5: Well, she, as you can see, she was living many lives.

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Speaker 5: And I think for me at that particular point of time,

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Speaker 5: considering like where my mom was, like, I had no

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Speaker 5: idea if she was gonna make it or that, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so for me it was.

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Speaker 2: Talking about Gammy every ye you know, from red Table.

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Speaker 5: To talk, and I just wanted to find a way

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Speaker 5: to find my own security, find my own power, my

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Speaker 5: own sense of worth, right right. And so I got

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Speaker 5: some of that from going to Baltimore School for the

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Speaker 5: Arts and being able to really kind of just be

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Speaker 5: in this creat.

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Speaker 1: Of world that I loved so much.

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Speaker 5: But at the same time, I was like, yo, I

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Speaker 5: need to make money, I need to have security, I

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Speaker 5: need to have stability. And so I was also in

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Speaker 5: the streets. So and then I auditioned for North Carolina

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Speaker 5: School for the Arts and got in, got robbed, had

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Speaker 5: some pretty bad too, pretty bad experiences that my mom

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Speaker 5: found out about, and then she was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 5: you're getting up out of here. You will be going

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Speaker 5: to college because I wasn't expecting to go to school.

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Speaker 5: I was like, no, I'm gonna stay in Baltimore and

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Speaker 5: I'm going to try to be a queen pin.

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Speaker 2: And you wanted to state you that's what you wanted

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Speaker 2: to pursue, and that state of mind, you were like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make it here and do what these

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Speaker 2: guys on the streets are doing as a woman, because

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Speaker 2: you were a tough ass bitch. Yeah, and you weren't

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Speaker 2: to be fucked with, and you believed that you could

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Speaker 2: do that. I did, and you did do it for

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Speaker 2: a while, for a moment, until I got.

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Speaker 1: A little till it got a little dicey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a couple of stories in this book where

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Speaker 2: she was really very close to while probably getting shot,

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Speaker 2: losing or losing your life. But I love the juxtaposition

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Speaker 2: of being that talented because everybody knew you were talented

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Speaker 2: at that age. People were spotting your talent, and it

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Speaker 2: was came easily to you.

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Speaker 1: I would say it did.

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Speaker 2: It came easily, whether it was dancing, acting. Maybe the

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Speaker 2: singing wasn't as easy.

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Speaker 6: The singing wasn't as easy, for sure, But to get

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Speaker 6: to get you know, recognized for that at an early

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Speaker 6: age while also having this kind of other side, you know,

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Speaker 6: it's it's very human the story, thank you.

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Speaker 2: And it's and it's not one dimensional at all, which

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Speaker 2: is the way really all of our true stories are.

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Speaker 2: So you go from the Baltimore School for the Arts,

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Speaker 2: I think, right, and then a mentor of yours kind

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Speaker 2: of basically made you audition for this university in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Donald Hicken.

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Speaker 5: He was my theater He was the theater department head,

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Speaker 5: and he was like, you need to go and audit.

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Speaker 5: Because I was like, I'm not, I'm not going to

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Speaker 5: North Carolina, Like that's just not happening.

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Speaker 1: He's like, listen, you're going to go in here audition.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be good for you.

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Speaker 5: And so I went in and I got accepted, and

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Speaker 5: you know, even once I got accepted, I was still

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Speaker 5: like I'm not going, you know. And then life took

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Speaker 5: a turn at my mother. Even though my mother had

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Speaker 5: her drug abuse problems, her substance abuse problems, when it

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Speaker 5: was really time for her to step up, she always

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Speaker 5: seemed to find a way to do that. And she

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Speaker 5: was not taking no for an answer about getting me

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Speaker 5: out of Baltimore once she found out that I had

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Speaker 5: been dealing drugs and I almost lost my life and

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Speaker 5: she was like you're getting up out of here. I

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Speaker 5: don't care what you say.

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Speaker 2: Mmm. And then there's a really poignant story in the

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Speaker 2: book without giving away all of the book, but these

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Speaker 2: are just such rich stories in here, like it's such

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Speaker 2: a full life that you've led, right. And there's a

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Speaker 2: point in the story in the book where she calls

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Speaker 2: her mom after a year of school and you're like

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Speaker 2: fuck this shit, Like I got this. You have two choices.

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Speaker 2: I can either become a lawyer and go to law school.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to Hollywood and I'm going to try and

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Speaker 2: make it happen.

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Speaker 7: And she's like, get your ass to Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: She sure was yup.

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Speaker 5: She flew out with me to get me set up

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Speaker 5: in La.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. I have like there's a similar When

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Speaker 2: I was nineteen years old, I went to a year

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Speaker 2: of community college, or sorry, a semester of community college,

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Speaker 2: and I was a hot mess as a teenager. My

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Speaker 2: parents were just sick of me, and I remember after

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Speaker 2: one semester, I said to them, I go, I just

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Speaker 2: think this is a waste of everyone's time. I said,

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Speaker 2: I think it's time for me to go to California.

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Speaker 2: My father goes, please go, Please get away from us

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Speaker 2: and go right, And once you get away from the

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Speaker 2: people that you have taken for granted or you feel

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Speaker 2: have mistreated you or haven't been available to you, that

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Speaker 2: is the first time you gain appreciation for that kind

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Speaker 2: of familial love.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely right, Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Another fascinating thing about this book is your relationship with

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Speaker 2: Chupac from the age of fourteen. YEPM and you guys

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Speaker 2: were friends for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 7: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And close friends, really close friends. And there were a

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Speaker 2: lot of rumors that you guys were a couple. But

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Speaker 2: that's not true.

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Speaker 5: That is so not true. As you could see from

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Speaker 5: the book, that was not true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like he wanted to be a couple. More.

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Speaker 2: It's funny though, because when you talk about your relationship

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Speaker 2: with him, of course, when you're reading about you know,

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Speaker 2: a man and a woman coming of age at that time,

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Speaker 2: you're like, well, there's got to have something romantic happening.

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Speaker 2: And you even say in the book that you tried,

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Speaker 2: like you tried to kiss him, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is not.

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Speaker 1: For both of us, right, for both of us, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing.

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Speaker 5: And I think, you know, even in that moment in

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Speaker 5: the book where he thinks he wants to marry me,

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Speaker 5: I think it was just based out of a really

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Speaker 5: extreme circumstance because he was at Rikers and he was

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Speaker 5: a He was in a really bad way, and he

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Speaker 5: knew I was a rock for him, and I think

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Speaker 5: at that time he just really needed a tether.

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Speaker 1: But I promise I tell everybody, as soon as he

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Speaker 1: would have walked out of those gates, he would have

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Speaker 1: divorced my ass. For sure. He did not want me

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Speaker 1: as a wife.

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Speaker 2: But you were thinking about it.

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Speaker 5: I was because I really felt like, well, maybe this

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Speaker 5: is something I should do to get him through time.

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Speaker 5: He wanted somebody to do time with him, and I

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Speaker 5: was going to do time with him, you know, I

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Speaker 5: was going to do that time with him, but I

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Speaker 5: was like, man like, and then I asked him, I

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Speaker 5: was like, psychological wife, conjugal wife, like what And he

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Speaker 5: was like, nah, like you're gonna be my wife?

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Speaker 1: Like I was like, now, Pagna, you know this is

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Speaker 1: not gonna work. I was like, I can't do that.

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Speaker 5: I'm not no.

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Speaker 1: And so we worked through that.

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Speaker 5: We got through that passage and you know, brought it

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Speaker 5: back to where it needed to be.

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Speaker 2: And what are your some of the words that you

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Speaker 2: would use to describe.

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Speaker 5: Him, Oh, man really passionate, very charismatic, and he really

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Speaker 5: wore his heart on his sleeve.

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Speaker 1: He's really a deeply feeling person.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm really highly sensitive, you know, And I think

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Speaker 5: that probably is the part that got overlooked a lot because,

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Speaker 5: you know, his public persona a lot of times you

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Speaker 5: would see him, you know, depicted as this like rageful angry.

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Speaker 1: But that just had to do with like he had that.

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Speaker 5: Existential heartbrokenness that we all kind of suffer from, and

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Speaker 5: he just, you know, he had a difficult time dealing

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Speaker 5: with what is what was you know, the suffering of

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Speaker 5: people and the unfairness of life and those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating to hear about all of the different

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Speaker 2: seminal relationships that you've had with all of these people

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Speaker 2: kind of and it was something I loved reading about

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Speaker 2: particularly was the acknowledgment from people like heroes that you

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Speaker 2: looked up to as soon as you came on the

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Speaker 2: scene in La that knew like this girl's got it,

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Speaker 2: like Debbie Allen.

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Speaker 1: Debbie Allen Number one.

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Speaker 2: Great story in the book about Debbie Allen the meeting

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Speaker 2: Jada an audition for a role and that you know

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Speaker 2: you didn't weren't right for, but she's like, forget about that,

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Speaker 2: You're so special, Like I'm going to write you a role.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: She made me a series regular in the Room and

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Speaker 5: then created Lena James from the Story of my Life.

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Speaker 1: She was like, tell me about your life, and so.

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Speaker 5: I told her about my background and then she created

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Speaker 5: the character Lena James.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool, right.

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Speaker 2: It's just cool to also be recognized at such a

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Speaker 2: young age because you came here as such a young girl,

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Speaker 2: you know, as did I remember that feeling of like

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Speaker 2: you don't know what you're going to do, but you

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Speaker 2: know you're going to do it. I just don't know

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Speaker 2: how it's going to happen. Mm hmm, right, Like it's

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Speaker 2: like a bowling ball. Like I say this a lot.

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Speaker 2: If there's a bowling ball moving in a direction, you

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Speaker 2: better get out of the way because it's going right.

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Speaker 2: And then so you came to La and Tubac was

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Speaker 2: already here when you got to La.

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Speaker 1: He came out before, he came out before me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and so he was up north California, but he

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Speaker 5: would come to La a lot because I was there,

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Speaker 5: and so we were rising together. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And how is his relationship when you married Will? Did

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Speaker 2: they get along? Did they have a cute relationship or not?

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Speaker 5: Well, by the time he was already gone, Oh he was. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: he was gone when I married Will. Oh, I see, yeah,

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Speaker 5: so but he.

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Speaker 1: When I started dating Will.

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Speaker 5: What's funny is that you know, Plack always has something

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Speaker 5: to say about whoever I was seeing always, And how

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Speaker 5: I know that he had approval of Will was because

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Speaker 5: he didn't say anything. He didn't say nothing, right, And

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Speaker 5: so I really do believe that as time went on,

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Speaker 5: if he had not been murdered, then they would have

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Speaker 5: been friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And how is your relationship with Tupac's girlfriends?

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Speaker 5: I always welcome. I was like, I'm a love who

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Speaker 5: you love. Yeah, we don't keep it right there, I'm

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Speaker 5: a love who you love. So I never had any

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Speaker 5: problems with any of his girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, never, Yeah, it's usually the other way around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, you know, nobody was ever good enough.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's just like, ah that he's a clown,

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Speaker 5: you know. You know, listen, worry about your life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you moved to California. You have which ext

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many experiences to delve into.

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Speaker 2: There is a very very poignant multiple chapters about your

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Speaker 2: Ayahuasca journey. Yeah, there's a lot of really beautiful stuff

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Speaker 2: in there about both of your children, Jaden and Willow,

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Speaker 2: and what it means to you to be a mother.

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Speaker 2: And I think you've made some really brave choices as

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Speaker 2: far as being able to let go of a baby

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Speaker 2: that is not even fully you know cooked, how the

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Speaker 2: traditional kind of perspective of motherhood is, especially in this country,

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Speaker 2: and how we look at it, that there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of sense that people children feel like parents property, like

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Speaker 2: like the parents own their children, and that they decide

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Speaker 2: what's best for them. And I'm your and you need

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Speaker 2: to listen to me, and that's it. Just shut up,

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Speaker 2: and what you're introduced in this book is a completely

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Speaker 2: different way to look at these things. That these children

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Speaker 2: are your teachers, That these children deserve their independence and

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Speaker 2: their will, and that you need to listen to even

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Speaker 2: someone who's eight years old when they tell you they

337
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Speaker 2: don't feel comfortable doing something, Absolutely you must. So talk

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Speaker 2: to me a little bit about that. And how do

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Speaker 2: you think you became that way?

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Speaker 5: I think it was a combination of how I was

341
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Speaker 5: raised in my grandmother's house and in my mother's house. Honestly, now,

342
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Speaker 5: being that my mother had problems with substance.

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Speaker 1: Abuse, I had a lot of freedom.

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Speaker 5: So within that freedom, I got to see the importance

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Speaker 5: of having that freedom to be able to self actualize

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Speaker 5: at such a young age. Now, in that I definitely

347
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 5: needed some bumper rails, right, And so I took a

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Speaker 5: little bit of what I discovered with how my life

349
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Speaker 5: was with my mother, and I just put in some.

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Speaker 1: Safety guards with my kids, right.

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Speaker 5: And then I just thought about how my grandmother nurtured

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Speaker 5: certain aspects of myself, Like she saw certain things in

353
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Speaker 5: me and she was like, oh, you're athletic, I'm gonna

354
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Speaker 5: put you in tennis. Oh, you like to dance, ballet, Okay, piano.

355
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Speaker 5: So she was always there to just kind of cultivate.

356
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Speaker 5: She kept me busy, and she wanted me to be

357
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Speaker 5: what she.

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Speaker 1: Would call well rounded.

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Speaker 5: And so I just looked at all of these components,

360
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Speaker 5: you know, and then I thought about at different stages,

361
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Speaker 5: what did I need at this stage when, like Jaden

362
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Speaker 5: at fifteen, I was on my own at fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Right, So let me just to contextualize this. So there's

364
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Speaker 2: a part of the book where Jaden says to his

365
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Speaker 2: mom and I think Willa was in the room at

366
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Speaker 2: the same time, right, and says, in a very prophetic way,

367
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Speaker 2: I need to feel the rain. I need my freedom.

368
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Speaker 2: It's time for me to yo go.

369
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Speaker 5: Right. When he said I need to feel the rain,

370
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Speaker 5: I knew exactly what that meant. I knew exactly what

371
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Speaker 5: that meant, and I knew he was going to be

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Speaker 5: down the street.

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Speaker 2: And that is chilling to think about as a mother.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a devastating day.

375
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Speaker 5: I just remember being so heartbroken, but I knew, I knew.

376
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Speaker 5: I was like, if you don't let him go, now,

377
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 5: this is going to be a bigger problem than if

378
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Speaker 5: you do. And he came, you know, like a year later,

379
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Speaker 5: year and a half later, and he's like, I get it.

380
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Speaker 1: You know.

381
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Speaker 5: It's like he had an opportunity to take on his life,

382
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Speaker 5: take on his responsibility and got to see everything that

383
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Speaker 5: we were trying to do as parents. He was like, oh, man,

384
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Speaker 5: I understand why you did this and why you did that.

385
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Speaker 1: Da da da da.

386
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Speaker 5: But he grew up in such a beautiful way. And

387
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Speaker 5: he left at fifteen and never came back.

388
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Speaker 2: And so when he came back a year and a

389
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Speaker 2: half later, he just said, I got it, but I'm

390
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Speaker 2: still yeah.

391
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Speaker 1: I mean, he says, basically he had an aha.

392
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Speaker 5: You know, it was like him just kind of giving

393
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Speaker 5: us our flowers as parents, you know, I mean we

394
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 5: were talking to him every day and so, but just

395
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 5: that AHA moment that he had when he was about

396
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Speaker 5: sixteen and a half. Because I knew if you let

397
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Speaker 5: him go, now, Jada, he's going to come back faster,

398
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 5: not meaning come back into the house and live.

399
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Speaker 1: I knew that was over.

400
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 5: He was never going to come back in that way,

401
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 5: but I knew that psychologically he was going to come back.

402
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: So I say all that to say that.

403
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 5: I learned quickly that each child has to be honored separately.

404
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 5: There's not like this cookie cutout way in which like, oh,

405
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,199
Speaker 5: this is what a fifteen year old needs, this is

406
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,640
Speaker 5: what a fourteen year old needs. I would never let

407
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 5: Willow leave the house at fifteen. Ever, Yeah, she was

408
00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 5: not ready.

409
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 1: Jaden was so.

410
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 2: But what if Willow had decided after that that she

411
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Speaker 2: wanted to leave the house.

412
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 5: That would have been a different situation, right, because how

413
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 5: can you say one no to want I mean yes

414
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 5: to one and then know to the other. Because there

415
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 5: was a sense of responsibility that Jaden had and maturity

416
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 5: in that way that Willow hadn't developed yet. Now she

417
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 5: had her own maturity in different ways, you know, in

418
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 5: other areas, but just not that. And so as a

419
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 5: parent you have to be able to look at those nuances.

420
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 5: It's not about and I used to tell because we

421
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 5: talked about this Willow and I. It's not about oh,

422
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 5: Jaden gets to do this and you don't. It's like

423
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 5: whoa I'm looking at as a parent? What you have

424
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 5: more capacity for?

425
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Speaker 2: Right?

426
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 1: Where are your skill sets?

427
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 5: You know, I'm not going to put you in a

428
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 5: place that I feel as a parent that you might not.

429
00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: Be ready for.

430
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 5: Jaden has happened to be ready for that particular Yeah.

431
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Speaker 2: There's a cute little passage in the book too, where

432
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: she talks about dropping Jaden off at school for the

433
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: first time, and he said, Mommy, why would you ever

434
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: drop me off with all these people who don't even

435
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 2: love me?

436
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, and she's like, oh, fuck, woa fuck, Well, how

437
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 7: am I supposed to answer that? So she says she

438
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 7: drops them off at school and sits in the parking

439
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 7: She goes, you know what, I'm going to sit here

440
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 7: and wait until noon until you get out.

441
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 2: So she'd go there and wait for him to get

442
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: out of school. Mean, mom my, parents weren't dropping me

443
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 2: off or picking me up to like see you exactly?

444
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

445
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

446
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 5: No, I was like, you're right, somebody's always going to

447
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 5: be here who loves you. I'll drop you off and

448
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 5: I will sit in this parking lot until twelve o'clock

449
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 5: every day.

450
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, so crazy. It's just so crazy to think

451
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 2: kids can grow up that quickly. It's so bittersweet the

452
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: heartache that it causes.

453
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah lots.

454
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:58,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, on a more serious note, you talk a

455
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 2: lot about different times life where you felt depressed, overwhelmed,

456
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: unable to function, and sometimes even suicidal. This book is

457
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: so revealing. This is exactly what a memoir should be.

458
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: And I think it's going to help so many people

459
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,479
Speaker 2: because to know that someone like you and of your

460
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 2: stature and all of these wonderful things that life looks

461
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 2: like it is is still hard. Yeah, it doesn't make

462
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: it easy because you're rich and famous.

463
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: Right, and that's the truth.

464
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 5: And you know, I think at that time when I

465
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 5: was when I went through one of the darkest periods

466
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 5: my fortieth year, when I was really suicidal, I really

467
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 5: had so much shame because I felt like everybody else,

468
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 5: I was just like, what.

469
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 1: Is wrong with you?

470
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 5: Because my life on the outside wasn't matching how I

471
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 5: was feeling on the inside. And it was so funny

472
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 5: because my mother just finished the book and she's like,

473
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 5: I can't.

474
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: Believe you didn't talk about how you woke up every

475
00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: morning crying.

476
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 5: And I said, well, I thought it was enough for

477
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 5: me to just talk about me looking for a cliff

478
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:04,719
Speaker 5: to drive off of.

479
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to, you know what I mean?

480
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 5: And she said, I got even in reading this memoir.

481
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 5: She said, I'm just getting so much understanding. She was like,

482
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 5: because everybody knew I was unhappy, but nobody knew why,

483
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 5: including myself. Right, so everybody's looking at me like, what

484
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 5: is your deal? You know, why can't you why can't

485
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 5: you be happy?

486
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 8: Right?

487
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 5: And so that just shut me down even more, and

488
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 5: I just got into a darker, darker space to the

489
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: point I was just like, I want out.

490
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: I just didn't see a way out.

491
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 5: I thought I was inherently broken, inherently something was wrong

492
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 5: with me.

493
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: And then, by the grace of.

494
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 5: God, you know, little Guru Jaden, you know, not even

495
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 5: knowing the state that I was in, comes into the kitchen.

496
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 5: He's like, you gotta listen to Moises and Matale and

497
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 5: hear about their father's experience and right, And so, because

498
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 5: my son knew I'm a seeker and like, you know,

499
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 5: I love different experiences, so I go into the living

500
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 5: room and I'm listening to Moisses and the Tale and

501
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 5: I'm like, is your father in town? I'm like, can

502
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 5: you call them so I can talk to them? And

503
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 5: as soon as their dad I saw their father, I

504
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 5: could just see the brightness.

505
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a different guy.

506
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 5: And then I started talking to him about his experience,

507
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 5: and I was like, I need this, I need this,

508
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 5: And then the universe opened up an opportunity for me

509
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 5: in oh Hi to be able to go and do

510
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 5: aya about a month and a half later and changed

511
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 5: my whole life. I got to see through the medicine

512
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 5: the cycle of self hatred. Oh my god, yeah, deep,

513
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 5: cycle of self hatred.

514
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: Deep and so and yes, And because what you talk

515
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: about is when you don't have the answers for why

516
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: you feel this way, it's almost like you're burrowing a

517
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: bigger hole within yourself. That's right, because without you know you.

518
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: I love when people call it medicine ayahuasca because it

519
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: is medicine and that's what it's for. The imagery and

520
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: the sensation that you feel when you do ayahuasca can't

521
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: be explained by anything else, like they're and these are

522
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's spiritual. It's like there's a spirit

523
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: guide who's telling you. And you talk about all your

524
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: different experiences in this book and how many I mean

525
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: I think you've done it multiple times. I have tons,

526
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: and you get something new out of it each time.

527
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: Every time, every time.

528
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: And one of your very first experiences was so bad

529
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: and dark that I was like, what, this bitch is crazy?

530
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: And you went back and you're like, I think I

531
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: need to stay at it for the next night, which

532
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: was not even planned.

533
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, because I felt like I was possessed. Let

534
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 5: me tell you, my kids have been life savers.

535
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: Literally.

536
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 5: The only reason why I went back in is because

537
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 5: I was like, whatever's on me, I can't take this

538
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 5: to my children. That's the only reason why I went back.

539
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 5: If I didn't have kids, I probably I don't even know, Chelsea. Honestly,

540
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have had sometimes and I realized this in life,

541
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 5: sometimes it's you're not your motivation and that's okay.

542
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: You know.

543
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 5: There have been times when I've had to think about

544
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 5: other people and most of the time my kids, and

545
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 5: that particular time it was about my kids.

546
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: And I went back and then I had.

547
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 5: To go through yet another difficult night, but it brought me.

548
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: To that space of resolve and light and that was

549
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: much more peaceful. And then you've continued to use it.

550
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I use it. I well, right after that, I

551
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: didn't do it for a year because it was terrified.

552
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: I was like, if this is.

553
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 5: What this experience is I don't want to do this

554
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 5: ever again.

555
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: I got through.

556
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 5: I'm okay, thank you, I don't want to kill myself anymore.

557
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for the healing.

558
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 5: But then a year later I was like, I feel

559
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 5: like I need to go back, and so I went

560
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 5: back again. And then after that I started going often,

561
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 5: just like every three weeks.

562
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: I was just in the room, in the room.

563
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: And do you prefer to have that experience alone or

564
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: with other people?

565
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: I did it for years by myself, with just me

566
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 5: and a guide, and.

567
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: I think I needed that, but now I really enjoyed.

568
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: But then I think you needed it too, because I mean,

569
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: look at the results. Yeah, I mean it's amazing.

570
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: Thank you.

571
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: It is medicine. It is so you did not kill yourself,

572
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: Thank God, because you were able to survive these terrible

573
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: bouts of depression, of self hatred, of self immolation, which

574
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: I think so many people can relate to, and so

575
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: many people feel like they're the only people in the

576
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: world feeling that way. And that's what's so heartbreaking is

577
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: that they're not alone, like no one listening. You're never alone.

578
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: You know, you're not the only person going through things

579
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: like this, and there are ways to survive, you know,

580
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 2: and if it's not plant medicine, there are other ways

581
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: to survive. You can pick up the phone and call

582
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: a hotline. You can call a suicide hotline. You can

583
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: call a family member, you can call someone who knows

584
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: to care about you. Because I also have to remember

585
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: that these feelings are never permanent. These are all temporary feelings,

586
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: and they can feel like they are going to take

587
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: control of you forever, but they will not. That's right, Okay,

588
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: So moving along, what was your I want to know

589
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: how did you come to the decision to write this

590
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: book at this time in your life?

591
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 5: Well, it was really twenty twenty one and on this

592
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 5: journey to you know, self worth, Jay Shetty, who's like

593
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 5: a brother to me, had been by my side and

594
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 5: he's like, you need to write a book. And I

595
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 5: was like, I don't fucking want to write a book.

596
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 5: I don't want to write a book. And we got

597
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 5: into it one day and I was like, you know what, Jada,

598
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 5: You know, Jay's this is your brother. Just just think

599
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 5: about why he might be thinking that this is something

600
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: good for you to do. And you know, a couple

601
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: of days later, as in meditation, I was like, oh man, wow,

602
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 5: my journey from feeling unlovable to feeling lovable. That's a

603
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 5: universal journey. Most of us are on that journey. And

604
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 5: I was like, that's that's a worthy story. That's a

605
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 5: worthy journey to share. And I felt like I had

606
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 5: been through so much. I'd been through the gauntlet of

607
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 5: like people saying all kinds of crazy stuff about me,

608
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 5: and I felt like I could afford to really give

609
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 5: a deep, honest exploration of my journey because I don't

610
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 5: have the fear of being criticized or judged in a

611
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 5: certain way. Because I feel like a lot of us women,

612
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 5: our stories are still considered taboo to really tell the

613
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 5: real deal, right, and we feel like that we're going

614
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 5: to be dragged through the mud and that's not fun.

615
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: I've already been dragged through the mud, so okay, you

616
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 5: know what I mean. So I want to offer this

617
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 5: journey for those who need to be seen in a

618
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 5: certain manner, who might be in a hopeless place, because

619
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 5: I know when I was in a hopeless place, if

620
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 5: there had been a story like this that I could

621
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 5: just have some breadcrumbs, I could have oxygen. I'm like,

622
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 5: I'm not alone. This person can see me. This person

623
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: is showing me that I'm not the only This is

624
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 5: not a unique experience that I'm having, and I don't

625
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: have to have shame about it.

626
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: You know.

627
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: And another reason what you're saying is striking me is

628
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: because within this book, there have been many moments where

629
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: the women in your life have come to you seeing,

630
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: you know, whether it was at your fortieth or a

631
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: different time, saying seeing that you weren't okay and actually

632
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: stepping in and how meaningful that is, which is something

633
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: that we talk about a lot on this podcast when

634
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: people call in, is do I get involved? Do I

635
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: say something? And a firm believer that the answer is

636
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: always yes if you are especially if you are a

637
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: woman and it's another woman, it doesn't even matter if

638
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: you're close to her or not, because that's your ego,

639
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: like just make sure every woman is okay. Like from

640
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: women women, I see something's wrong? Are you okay? And

641
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: the impact that that had on you, whether it was

642
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: from very close friends or not so close friends, is

643
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: you know, invaluable.

644
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: It is and it's so important.

645
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 5: I'm glad that you said, even if it's someone that

646
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 5: you are not close to, you know, from women to

647
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 5: women when we understand what this journey is like on

648
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: this earthly plane, you know what I mean. And it's like,

649
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 5: it's a universal journey. I don't care the color of

650
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 5: your skin, what language you speak. We've got some universal struggles, right,

651
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: And so I really I'm with you. I feel like

652
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 5: that's part of what we're here to do as women

653
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 5: is to help each other, right, and part of that

654
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 5: is sharing our stories, you know, and being able to

655
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 5: use the wisdom that we collect along the way to

656
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 5: help others, you know.

657
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a lot of wisdom in the book.

658
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: And you talk very openly about your marriage with Will

659
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: and you guys are when you got married you made

660
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: a very sacred value to each other that divorce wasn't

661
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: an option.

662
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like because as you read, you know,

663
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 5: I wasn't interested in having like the wedding because I

664
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 5: was like, first of all, we're doing something really serious here.

665
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have I don't have time for

666
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: a wedding.

667
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it.

668
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is so fucking serious. Why do we

669
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: have This is a serious shit.

670
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 5: I don't have time to be thinking about bridesmaids and

671
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 5: what fucking dress I'm wearing.

672
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm about to fucking commit myself to you forever and.

673
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: I'm about to have a baby.

674
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 5: Like this is not what I thought my life to be, right,

675
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 5: And so I wanted to go to the mountaintop. I

676
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 5: was like, look, we need to get with God and

677
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 5: figure this out, Like this is serious. We got to

678
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 5: commit to each other in a spiritual.

679
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: Way, because you guys had a very spiritual connection from

680
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: the time you met.

681
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did.

682
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 5: And so when we were outside on that log in

683
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 5: his mother's backyard and he was talking about a prenup,

684
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 5: and I was just like, if we're gonna talk about

685
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 5: the end at the beginning, just don't marry me. I'm

686
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 5: not interested. I'm okay, I don't want it. And you know,

687
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 5: he was like, I get it. He was like, I

688
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 5: you know, I don't think we need a prenup. If

689
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 5: you don't think we need a prenup, we don't need

690
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 5: a prenup. And I said, I'm telling you we're gonna

691
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: work through everything. That was my sacred vow that day,

692
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 5: right and so, and he looked to me and he

693
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 5: said okay. And so in that moment, for me, that

694
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 5: was my mountaintop moment. That was like my moment with

695
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 5: God saying we I am going to We're gonna work

696
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 5: through everything, you know, And it's not about money and

697
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 5: all of that. It's about that moment of making that

698
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 5: commitment and that vow. And let me tell you it's

699
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 5: it's not an easy vow to keep because ultimately, when

700
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: you're talking about being with somebody forever, forever. I talked

701
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 5: about it in the book, you're gonna go through that

702
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: jungle together and you're gonna get to see what shows

703
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 5: up what doesn't show up in one another. But that's

704
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 5: what a marriage is, right. You're gonna have your honeymoon

705
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: stages and then you're gonna.

706
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: Have your hell stages.

707
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: But it's just such a crack of shit that people

708
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: don't talk about that when you're getting married.

709
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, because that's the problem, Chelsea. That's why I feel

710
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 5: like the ceremony is not the way you should start

711
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 5: a word, because it's setting you, it's setting up this fantasy. Yeah,

712
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 5: And I knew my marriage was not gonna be a fantasy, right.

713
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 5: I knew that from the gate. I didn't know then,

714
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 5: but that I was just gonna run into my shit that's.

715
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: Really what I was scared of.

716
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think so many of us believe that, like,

717
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: we have our shit, we have our shit, and then

718
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: some guy's gonna come along and you're like, I see

719
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: your shit, and I'm gonna take care of your shit,

720
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: and I don't worry about your shit. It's not shit

721
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: with me, right, And it's like, no, it is. It

722
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: is because it's ours.

723
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 5: It's ours, and it's going to be really shitty. Yeah,

724
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 5: it's going to be really shitty at times. Yeah.

725
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: I wonder how many women would be able to sit

726
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: and listen to that conversation before getting married, Like, just

727
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: so you know, this isn't going to be twenty years

728
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: of bliss, right, There are gonna be many, many moments

729
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: of despair and disappointment.

730
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I wish, God, I wish. I don't mean to

731
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: be a debute. Listen. Weddings are great. I want to

732
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: start right, but I feel like.

733
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 5: The marriage ceremony set up the way that it is

734
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 5: now gives a really false impression of what marriage is

735
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 5: going to be.

736
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, you have the white dress, you know, the

737
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: princess of the day.

738
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 5: It's a fairy tale and I'm like, yeah, that's not

739
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 5: what you have moments of that, but a marriage.

740
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: To me, and I've been learning along the way, it's

741
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: really a holy path of purification.

742
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 6: You know.

743
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 5: It's like there is nothing like an intimate partner to

744
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 5: make you have to look at your stuff and clean

745
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: it up, you know, for each person involved. And because

746
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 5: it's in that intimate partnership where you really get to

747
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 5: the nitty gritty, you really get to those buttons you

748
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 5: know that are the deep.

749
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: There is like a mine field.

750
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: And you have to have two willing participants. Yeah, because

751
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: somebody could be a seeker like yourself, and somebody could

752
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: be a nonseeker and be like, I'm not interested in

753
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: all of this, you know what I mean. I was

754
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: just on vacation with some girlfriends in my Orca and

755
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: one of my friends was telling me about her husband

756
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: and she's like, he's seeking out all the stuff. He's

757
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: seeking out all this stuff. I go, that's great, why

758
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: don't you go with him and seek it out? And

759
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: she's like, I have no interest in any of that.

760
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: And I was like, but you're okay for him to

761
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: go do it, right, And she's like, yeah, I just

762
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: want him to go figure his shit out and I

763
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: thought interesting because, like you know, you can have two

764
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: people who are seeking and it can cause a lot

765
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: of you know, it could be fractious, but you can

766
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: also sometimes people just need to go and be on

767
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: their own, yes, and then come back.

768
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 5: That's right, and that I feel like in long term

769
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 5: relationships that is an inevitable passage where you have to

770
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 5: go on your own.

771
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. You talk about that in the book that you

772
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: guys have been separated for many years. Yeah, six years.

773
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: Well when you wrote the book, it was six years. Yeah,

774
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: six years, six years at the oscars. You were separated

775
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: six years at the Oscars, is what you said. Yeah,

776
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 2: so but you're not divorced, no, and you have no

777
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: plans to get divorced. No, So talk to us about that.

778
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm down with it. I think this is a great

779
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: new way of thinking about marriage.

780
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, that's new. They're not getting divorced. Part,

781
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 1: that's new.

782
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, because in twenty sixteen I was definitely thinking

783
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 5: about it.

784
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well twenty sixteen was when Trump was elected

785
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: to I think a lot of people were thinking a

786
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: lot of things. We'll just put that on him for now, right,

787
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: But okay, so you were thinking about it. But yeah,

788
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: but you didn't take the steps to do it.

789
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 5: I didn't take the steps to do it never, you know,

790
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 5: never sought a lawyer. But it wasn't that I wasn't

791
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 5: thinking about it, because I was just like, all right,

792
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 5: how do I do this? How do I uncouple consciously?

793
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 5: I don't want to do it from a place of resentment,

794
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 5: from a place of anger. I don't want to create

795
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 5: just a messy bloodshed, right, And so I was really

796
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 5: trying to figure that out, working on myself getting to.

797
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: A place of like.

798
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 5: Peaceful resolve between us, which took a lot longer than

799
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: I expected, you.

800
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: Know, several several several years.

801
00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 5: And then when Will finished Emancipation, a huge shit happened

802
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 5: in him. I think that was a really difficult movie

803
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 5: for him to shoot.

804
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff came up for him.

805
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 5: And that was when he asked me to get back

806
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 5: into some therapeutic settings.

807
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: With him, and we started.

808
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 5: Doing some deep work in a way that we had

809
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 5: never done before. Then he got nominated and he was like, listen,

810
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 5: there's nobody else that I want by my side during

811
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 5: this time, you know, because we were still family, right,

812
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 5: and he was like, you know, were you do this

813
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 5: run with me?

814
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: And I was like absolutely, of course, you.

815
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: Know, And what was the like? So you guys were

816
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: living separately and we were living separately.

817
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 5: I had bought I had bought a house because I

818
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 5: really needed talking about needing to go on your separate journey.

819
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 5: I had gone on several separate journeys and just trying

820
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 5: to get to a place of happiness within myself, place

821
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 5: of peace and really making peace with what is, you know,

822
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 5: just like trying to detox from a romanticized version of

823
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 5: myself as well as the romanticized version of Will and

824
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 5: a romanticized version of our togetherness. Because even though I

825
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 5: might not have had the white wedding romantic version, I

826
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 5: had to really come to the understanding that I had

827
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 5: a romantic idea of what I wanted our connection to

828
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 5: look like.

829
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: I wanted this masterpiece of connection between Will and I.

830
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 5: Now, how do you have a masterpiece of connection with

831
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 5: someone else if you don't have it with yourself. And

832
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 5: that's what I had to learn, really detoxing from the

833
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 5: idea that it was his job to make me happy

834
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 5: because I believed I sat here and I helped you

835
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 5: get every fucking thing you wanted. You need to now

836
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 5: help me get the dream I wanted, which is.

837
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: Connection between us, damn it, you know.

838
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 5: And I had to really recognize that that wasn't something

839
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 5: he could give me even if he tried, because I

840
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 5: wasn't willing to give it to really know, have an

841
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 5: intimate relationship with myself and.

842
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: Deal with my shit.

843
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 5: And so in that six years period, that's what I

844
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 5: had been doing. So now we're in these therapeutic settings

845
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 5: and we're really doing some deep work, really deep work.

846
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 5: And so when we got to the Oscars, we were

847
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 5: in a really good place, you know, and doing this

848
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 5: deep work together.

849
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: And then yeah, well, I think you should talk about it,

850
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: because I think people wonder what you were thinking and

851
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: what I mean, it's in the book. You talk about

852
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: it in the book. Yeah, I mean, so you don't

853
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: have to get into it. But I think you were

854
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: as surprised as anyone else.

855
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 5: I was super surprised at first because he had been

856
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 5: going back and forth to the backstage, and I was like,

857
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 5: oh wow, when he got up. When Chris said what

858
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 5: he said, I rolled my eyes because I knew when

859
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 5: I first saw Chris's name as one of the presenters,

860
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 5: I remember saying to Will, I was like, oh no,

861
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 5: I was like, I hope he plays nice tonight. You know.

862
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: But because Chris and I had buried our beef.

863
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 5: You know, after twenty sixteen and that whole misunderstanding, he apologized.

864
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 5: I apologized to him. We were in a good place.

865
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 5: I hadn't spoken to him since, and but I just

866
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 5: kept thinking. I was like, ah, he's not gonna be

867
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 5: able to help himself, you know. And I just had

868
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 5: this like my bubble guts, bubble guts, And so Will

869
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 5: was going back and forth backstage, and then when Chris

870
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 5: said what he said, I looked to Will as to say, you.

871
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: Believe that shit right? And I wasn't.

872
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 5: Upset about what Chris said about me, because I'm gonna

873
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 5: be okay.

874
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: It was the idea of I had known.

875
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 5: So many horrible stories about young people who had committed

876
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 5: suicide because they had alopecia, people who were suffering in

877
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 5: silence and in shame because of alopecia, and I was

878
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 5: just like, I was thinking about my alopecia community and

879
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 5: how on this world stage it was okay to make

880
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 5: fun of alopecia.

881
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: And then Will gets up. I'm like, is this a skit.

882
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 5: He talked to Chris backstage and he didn't say anything

883
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 5: to me. And then Chris, how he's reacting is kind

884
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 5: of like, oh, here comes mister Smith. And I was like,

885
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 5: oh shit, this is a skit. And then from where

886
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 5: I'm sitting, when Will swung, it looked like Chris slipped

887
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 5: the shot. I didn't know he had made contact, and

888
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 5: especially after Chris was still standing, because I'd seen Will

889
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 5: knock professional fighters down in the ring.

890
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: He's a heavy hitter.

891
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he's trained, Yeah, he's trained.

892
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: He's a heavy hitter.

893
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 5: So when he turned around and he started coming back downstage,

894
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 5: I was like, oh no, this is not a joke.

895
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: Something is wrong here.

896
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 5: And now I can see that Will's not necessarily in

897
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 5: present time. So he comes and he sits down and

898
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 5: I just grab his hand and I look at him

899
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 5: and I said.

900
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: Are you okay.

901
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 5: Chris comes down to the stage and he starts speaking

902
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 5: to me again in the commercial break, at the commercial break,

903
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 5: and he says, I meant no harm. And at that time,

904
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 5: I was so confused and so disrupted because I'm really

905
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 5: worried about Will, because Will has never done anything like

906
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 5: this before. I don't know what's going on. I have

907
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 5: no idea. I don't know what's happening with him, and

908
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 5: I'm really worried about him. And I'm like, Chris, I

909
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 5: can't do this right now, this is about some old

910
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 5: shit it I can't. And then Chris, but Will's going off.

911
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 5: He's going off again. So Denzel comes over and he's

912
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 5: leaning on Will to just calm him down. Chris finishes

913
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 5: his whole thing. Denzel Bradley Cooper take care of Will,

914
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 5: which I'm so grateful for because I was just at

915
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 5: a loss.

916
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: I was at a loss.

917
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 5: And then his publicist and my publicists come over and

918
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: she's like, you know, Chris left the building. He's not

919
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 5: going to press charges. And I was like, press charges

920
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 5: for what? And she's like, Will hit Chris? And I

921
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 5: looked at Will and I said, you hit Chris? Actually,

922
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 5: you actually hit Chris And he said yeah, and I

923
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 5: said okay, and that's when I knew.

924
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: I said, all right, I.

925
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 5: Might not have walked in here as your wife, but

926
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 5: I'm leaving here as your wife because we're gonna have

927
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 5: to get through this together, you know, yeah, you know.

928
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 5: So that's I have to say that the oscars brought

929
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 5: us closer, so you know, our dynamic has because you

930
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 5: knew that he was in pain. I knew that he

931
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 5: was in pain. I knew that he was going through

932
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 5: a lot. I knew a lot that the public didn't know,

933
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 5: you know, because we had been in these therapeutic spaces together,

934
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 5: and so I knew I had to be byside. And

935
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 5: just because you know, everybody wants to ride in the limo,

936
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 5: that's real talk, right, and that's it was this moment

937
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 5: when I really realized that next level of commitment and love,

938
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 5: because this is about us walking each other home.

939
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: This is about.

940
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 5: Us helping each other heal, walking each other to those

941
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 5: sacred places within as well as those sacred places without,

942
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 5: where I had to get really deep resolved around that's

943
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: what the journey's about, and that we are two people

944
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 5: that came into this relationship at a very young age

945
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 5: with a lot of trauma and thus not having a

946
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 5: lot of information our traumas, how we acted our traumas

947
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 5: out on one another, you know, and just learning how

948
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 5: not to take that personally, and just realizing that we're

949
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 5: walking each other home and that that's about being able

950
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 5: to hold each other's hands in those dark caves with

951
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 5: the Grimlins and the Gargoyles and you know, all of

952
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 5: the monsters.

953
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: Right when you say everyone wants to ride in the limo,

954
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 2: not everybody wants to ride when there's no limo.

955
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 5: Nobody wants to Nobody wants to go in the Haunted

956
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 5: House on the Spooky Bus.

957
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: And I mean it couldn't be more true. Yeah, I

958
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: mean everybody knows that. I mean, when you're a celebrity that,

959
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 2: I mean, it's great for celebration and then then when

960
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: something goes wrong, you look around and you're like.

961
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: Well fuck yeah, it's like everybody.

962
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So may I ask you what the status is

963
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: now of you guys? What's your relationship?

964
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: You're still married, We're still married.

965
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: Got that going, Yeah, we got that going.

966
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 5: And we've really been concentrating on just that healing component together, yeah,

967
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 5: and taking it one day at a time, Chelsea, trying

968
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 5: to figure it out, you know.

969
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, very very admirable, very at your honesty

970
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's very I'm really just blown away by

971
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: it and I love it. I mean, it's just good

972
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: for the world.

973
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's what life is.

974
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 5: That you know, this idea that these perfect picture you know, you.

975
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: Know, you look at like from my perspective, I remember

976
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: watching that night thinking what's going on with him? Like,

977
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: that's not who he is? What's happening to him? He

978
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: must be going through something either with you, with his person.

979
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it's never about another person only. It's about

980
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: everything we've experienced through our lives, and it is our

981
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: trauma revisiting us. And when it's not, you know, we

982
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 2: become self actualized when we dig deep and find out

983
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: what really happened and why our behaviors are.

984
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: The way they are and why.

985
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 2: You know. But I remember thinking that that's not who he.

986
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 5: Is, right, which is why I understood why people thought,

987
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 5: you know, with me putting out or assisting in that

988
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 5: false narrative of me being this adulterous wife, which was

989
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 5: not true, why people automatically thought Jade is the problem.

990
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we skipped over all that, that whole part,

991
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: because I just don't even think that's worth mentioning, because

992
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: that's really not right. I mean, it is because it's

993
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: part of your story, but that's not part. It's there's

994
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: so much more there than that, and I think it's

995
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 2: important to remember and recognize when people are in pain,

996
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: because when people are acting in pain, that is not

997
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 2: who they are. And I don't know Will personally, but

998
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: I can imagine that he's a very very loving, decent

999
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: human being, so loving, and I've heard that a million times,

1000
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: and so is Chris Rock. Chris, he really is.

1001
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 5: And that's why, you know, even when people ask me,

1002
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 5: you know about Chris and all this stuff he said

1003
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 5: on Netflix what have you, and I'm like, you know what,

1004
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 5: when people are hurting, that's.

1005
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: Not that's not they're true, that's not their true right.

1006
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 5: So that's not even Chris on that stage, honestly, Like

1007
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 5: with all the things.

1008
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: That he said, I you mean it in his special

1009
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: in his special right.

1010
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 5: And because I've had the opportunity to spend time with Chris,

1011
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,479
Speaker 5: I've seen that part of Chris, you know what I mean.

1012
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 5: And I know I know what his eyes looked like

1013
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 5: that night when he said to me, I meant no harm.

1014
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 5: And I know that to be true to this day,

1015
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 5: even with that special he I know he meant no harm. Yeah,

1016
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 5: you know right, No, He's just you know, it's just

1017
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 5: that hurt place in us. And you know, I've been

1018
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 5: there when I'm hurt things that I've done and things

1019
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 5: that I've said out of that hurt place.

1020
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: It's not me.

1021
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: What did Willow have to say about reading the book?

1022
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 5: She just you know, first of all, she's an avid reader,

1023
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 5: so she just finds me fascinating, which is awesome, you

1024
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 5: know what I mean, because she's like a cool kid,

1025
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

1026
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 2: She finds you and a Gammy.

1027
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah she's at Yeah, she really does.

1028
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 5: So she's enjoyed it. She just can't believe the life

1029
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 5: that I've lived, you.

1030
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: Know, because I've told her stories.

1031
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: I can't believe that.

1032
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 5: You know, but then reading it open, it's like mom

1033
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 5: mad and you're out here worried about me doing the thing.

1034
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: I can't believe you.

1035
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 5: I didn't give you half the problems you gave gam

1036
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 5: you know.

1037
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: Like, so, yeah, she's had a good time. I'm reading it.

1038
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: Well, this podcast was supposed to take callers, but you

1039
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: know what, why don't we just leave this as a

1040
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: special episode. Yeah that's not because this was a very

1041
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 2: powerful conversation, and I think I think it is just

1042
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: such strong messaging. A you know, when you talk about

1043
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 2: a woman putting out all of her stuff, it's not

1044
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: done as much as it's done by men, and when

1045
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: it is done by men, it's not as emotionally at

1046
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: the surface. Like you're reading this book and you were like,

1047
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: it will bring your emotions to the surface on behalf

1048
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: of what it means to be a woman and all

1049
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: the pressure. But the reason why women don't do this

1050
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: is because when they write the truth like this, and

1051
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: so many times we're thought of as so fierce or

1052
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: so hard, you know, And when you go through the history,

1053
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: if you think of people like Belle Hooks or you

1054
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 2: think of Gloria Steinem and the way that they were

1055
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 2: perceived rather than just because they were truth tellers. It's

1056
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: so nice to see more women saying, no, this is

1057
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: my truth, this is the hard core nature of what's happening,

1058
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: and this is what's happened in my life. And to

1059
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 2: know how many lives each one of us has led

1060
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: you to know how crazy it is you know that

1061
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: you could be I mean from coming from Baltimore and

1062
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: doing all of the things that you've done, but having

1063
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 2: an inner compass and a north star in a sense

1064
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: that you're still here thriving, and you're sitting across from me,

1065
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 2: and you're beautiful inside and out thank you, And I

1066
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: just think it's a victory and I feel all women

1067
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: should be sharing their stories in this way and to

1068
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: be louder and prouder of who we all are. There

1069
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: you go, because it's not just men's stories that are important.

1070
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: This is how we help heel each other, and this

1071
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: is how we all kind of come together and give

1072
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: each other room to make mistakes and grow. And you're

1073
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: still there and you're still filled with love, you know, definitely,

1074
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: And amen to that, you guys. I mean, that's our

1075
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 2: podcast for the day.

1076
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: Love it, Love you.

1077
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: Okay. The book is called Worthy. You're gonna get it

1078
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: and you're gonna thank me, and it's by Jada Pinkett Smith.

1079
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Yes, okay.

1080
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: Second shows have been added for those of you coming

1081
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: to see my new stand up tour, which you have

1082
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 2: to come because I'm having the best time. We added

1083
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: a second show into Cincinnati, Los Angeles, which is actually

1084
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: October thirteenth. There are still tickets for October thirteenth show

1085
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. We added second shows in Chicago, the

1086
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 2: Chicago Theater, Portland, Oregon, San Francisco. They're both almost completely

1087
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 2: sold out. Detroit, Michigan, and then we added a second

1088
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: show in Cincinnati in the daytime at five o'clock PM.

1089
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 2: I'm doing my first show because I don't have a

1090
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: night where I can go back, so we added a

1091
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: second show at five PM, and the original show is

1092
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: at eight PM. Original show is sold out. Second show

1093
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 2: tickets are available Cincinnati. I'm also coming to Cleveland on

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00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: October twentieth, and then I'll be in Columbus October twenty

1095
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: first and Pittsburgh October twenty second. So those three shows

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00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: I still have tickets available, And you can go to

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00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: Chelsea Hamler dot com for other tickets and other information.

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00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: And if you want to buy some of our merch,

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00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 2: that's all available on Chelseahandler dot com. And yeah, guys,

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00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 2: I'll see you on the road.

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00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 8: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

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00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 8: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1103
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 8: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

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00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 8: and engineered by executive producer Katherine Law and be sure

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00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 8: to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com.