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Speaker 1: The Russia story is a total fabrication. That, of course,

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Speaker 1: was Donald Trump last week alluding to the Special Council

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Speaker 1: investigation into Russian meddling in last year's election, But on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: the man supervising the probe, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein,

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Speaker 1: said the investigation was no fishing expedition. Speaking on Fox

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Speaker 1: News Sunday, Rosenstein also said Special Council Robert Mueller had

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Speaker 1: a broad mandate to investigate possible crimes he discovers along

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Speaker 1: the way. But Rosenstein wouldn't confirm reports that a grand

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Speaker 1: jury had been impaneled, and he said the use of

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Speaker 1: a grand jury wouldn't say anything about the likelihood of indictments.

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Speaker 1: It's an appropriate way to gather documents. Sometimes you bring

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Speaker 1: witnesses in to make sure that you get their full testimony.

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Speaker 1: It's just a tool that we use like any other

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Speaker 1: tool in the course of our investigations. With me to

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Speaker 1: talk about the latest developments in the investigation into Russian

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Speaker 1: meddling in the two thousand sixteen election is William Banks.

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Speaker 1: He's the director of the Institute for National Security and

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Speaker 1: Countered Heroism at Syracuse University College of Law. Bill thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining me um. Is a grand jury, is a

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Speaker 1: convening of a grand jury as routine as Rod Rosenstein

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Speaker 1: seemed to suggest in that in that clip, Well, I

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Speaker 1: think it is. It is routine in major criminal investigations,

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Speaker 1: and to that extent, the Rosenstein's right on the mark,

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Speaker 1: not to to suggest that it doesn't necessarily indicate the

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Speaker 1: indictments or imminent or that there's been a major breakthrough.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, uh, Mr Mohler's office would not

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Speaker 1: have convened a grand jury if they had nothing so far,

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Speaker 1: so that it does suggest that there's a need for

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Speaker 1: the mechanism of a grand jury to help them collect

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Speaker 1: evidence and to document materials that they have going forward,

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Speaker 1: perhaps to utilize their subpoena power. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: the grand jury was reported late convened here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: is that also routine? It drew some some criticism from

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Speaker 1: the President on Twitter over the weekend. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's just efficient to the Mueller's offices in the district.

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Speaker 1: That's just a few blocks, I believe from where the

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Speaker 1: grand jury would be contined. He's got a sizeable staff

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Speaker 1: of lawyers and investigators, so it's simply a better way

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Speaker 1: or less costly and more time efficient way to get

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Speaker 1: their work done. So I want to ask you about

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Speaker 1: something else that came up in the Rosinstein interview on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: which is the scope of Mueller's powers and the appointment order.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, the appointment order says that he can investigate

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Speaker 1: any links and coordination between the Russian government and people

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Speaker 1: associated with the Donald Trump campaign. Um, and in addition,

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Speaker 1: can look into any matters that arose or may arise

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Speaker 1: directly from the investigation. Um. What is that last phrase?

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Speaker 1: Directly from the investigator shouldn't mean what? What can Mueller

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Speaker 1: look at without having to go to Rod Rosenstein for

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Speaker 1: additional authority? Well, I think it's a very broad grant

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Speaker 1: of discretion. It's the kind that you would expect an

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Speaker 1: independent councilor special prosecutor to have because you simply can't

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Speaker 1: know at the time that the original instruction is given

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Speaker 1: where the investigation will lead. So I think indeed Mueller's

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Speaker 1: team has the authority to go far we have. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that we have to continue to

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Speaker 1: remind ourselves is that this investigation was ultimately about Russian

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Speaker 1: meddling in the US elections. So we start from that

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Speaker 1: and remind ourselves that things that are pertinent to the

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Speaker 1: Russian meddling are pertinent to the investigation. And then for

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Speaker 1: those who might have been involved or somehow connected uh

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Speaker 1: with the investor with the Russian meddling, then anything from

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Speaker 1: those tax I think is fair game. So it's pretty broad,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we we can't predict exactly the far

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Speaker 1: corners of the description that Mr. Mueller's team might have.

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Speaker 1: If well, let me ask you about there have been

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Speaker 1: reports of the past several weeks about mall are looking

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Speaker 1: into some of the business dealings of people like Jared Kushner,

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Speaker 1: the president's son in law. Is it clear to you

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Speaker 1: that those are within the scope of his his power, Well,

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Speaker 1: they are within the scope of his power if they

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Speaker 1: connect in any way the investigation of the Russian tampering

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Speaker 1: of the of the election. So if you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been reported that the former National Security Advisor Flynn received

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Speaker 1: compensation from Russian entities as well as Turkish entities during

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Speaker 1: the period that's under investigation, and so that's certainly within

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Speaker 1: the scope of the Mueller team's authority to look at.

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Speaker 1: And if other members of the of the staff, the

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Speaker 1: campaign or those connected to them more similarly compensated. If

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Speaker 1: there's a money trail there, it's it's important for the

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Speaker 1: Mueller group to find out where it leads. So Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: in his speech on Thursday, also reiterated his view that

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Speaker 1: prosecutors should be investigating Hillary Clinton's emails. Uh Rod Rosenstein

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Speaker 1: on Sunday said he didn't view what the President said

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Speaker 1: publicly as an order to the Justice Department, and he

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Speaker 1: added that Donald Trump hasn't directed the investigation of any

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Speaker 1: particular people by the Justice Department. What does all that

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Speaker 1: tell you about the relationship between the White House and

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Speaker 1: the Justice Departments when it comes to this investigation. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a it's a very disturbing trend for the

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Speaker 1: President to uh turn the relationship between the presidency and

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Speaker 1: the Justice Department into a sort of adversarial relationship based

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Speaker 1: on on political point of you. The Justice Department is

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Speaker 1: charged with enforcing the law. It's that simple, and they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be influenced to do so in a certain way

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Speaker 1: by the President or anyone else. I think the Department

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Speaker 1: has done an admirable job so far of resisting any

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Speaker 1: pressures in that direction, whether they would come from the President,

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Speaker 1: or from Congress, or for anyone else who might attempt

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Speaker 1: to exercise that influence. I'm curious. I want to ask

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Speaker 1: almost a pr question, what does Rod Rosenstein gain from

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Speaker 1: from going on the Sunday talk shows like he did

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Speaker 1: this weekend. Is there a message that that he was

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Speaker 1: trying to send and and and do you think he

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Speaker 1: sent it? Well? I think he was doing what Mr

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Speaker 1: Comey was doing early on before he was a puplic

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Speaker 1: fired by the President. He's trying to remind all of us,

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Speaker 1: the press, to begin with that the American people and

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Speaker 1: members of Congress, that the Justice Department is is an

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Speaker 1: a political institution that is charged with enforcing the law,

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Speaker 1: and any attempt to interfer to direct the direction of

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Speaker 1: their investigation is improper. I want to thank our guests.

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Speaker 1: That's William Banks. He is the director of the Institute

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Speaker 1: for a National Security and counter Terrorism talking about the

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Speaker 1: Russia investigation by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. UH Deputy Training

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Speaker 1: General Rod Rosenstein was on Fox News Sunday this weekend,

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Speaker 1: declaring that it is no fishing expedition and also saying

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Speaker 1: that he has not received any orders from President Trump

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Speaker 1: in terms of any particular course the investigation should take,

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Speaker 1: in including his his suggestion that the Justice Department should

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Speaker 1: be investigating Hillary Clinton's emails. That's it for this edition

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Law. We'll be back tomorrow. Thanks to our

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Speaker 1: technical director Chris try Chromy and our producer David Senterman.

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Speaker 1: You can find more legal news at Bloomberg Law dot

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Speaker 1: for the legal community at Big Law Business dot com.

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