1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I'm Aukshatrati from Chamel Sheik, Egypt. It 2 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: is a choice to continue this pattern of destructive behavior 3 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: as Coup twenty seven comes to a close. There's a 4 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: subject that did not make a lot of waves, the ocean. 5 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: The conference has been held at a seaside resort, but 6 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: the health of the oceans and their role as a 7 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: carbon sinc haven't received the attention they deserve. Ahead of 8 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: the conference, I spoke with the endurance swimmer Lewis Pew, 9 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: who is the UN's Patron of the Oceans. He has 10 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: completed a long distance swim in each of the world's oceans. 11 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: He swam between icebergs in the North Pole in minus 12 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: one point seven degrees celsius water in the Intarctic, and 13 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: just last month completed a swim across the Red Sea 14 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: past Charmel Shake, where cop is being held to raise 15 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: awareness about the health of coral reefs. We'll hear from 16 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: Lewis later in the show, but first I spoke with 17 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Salma el Berdani, an energy and commodities reporter based 18 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: in Cairo, and Zero's producer Oscar Boyd. Salma, Oscar welcome, 19 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: to the show. Thanks, thank you, Archa. Now this is 20 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: the first cop for both of you. What was the 21 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: cop experience like for you? Salma? It was overwhelming. It 22 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: was busy all the time. It was a lot of 23 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: things happening at different places, and there is nowhere centered 24 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: where you can find everything, or you can find the 25 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: schedule for everything. It's all over the place, and it's very, 26 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: very exhausting. And it's not the first time you're covering 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: big meetings. You grab a ROPEC meetings every year. No, 28 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: it's not the first time I've covered or pick. I've 29 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: covered devils, but it's still nothing. Nothing compares to this, 30 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: And I think it's also because of the large participation 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: of countries and civil society and activists, so it's difficult 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: to articulate everything. And what was it for you, Oscar? 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: I think Salmon's word choice overwhelming. It is definitely one 34 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: way I'd describe it. The other where I describe it 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: is completely surreal. We're in this isolated beach resort at 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: kind of the end far corner of one part of Egypt. 37 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: There's no real town or potentially even real Egyptians to 38 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: speak of. Here. The closest thing to our hotel is 39 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: this It's called Soho Square, and the best way I 40 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: could describe it is it's like Piccadilly Circus on steroids 41 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: at Christmas. There's just lots of flashing lights. When we 42 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: went in, a gangm style was playing, so I felt 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: like I gone straight back to twenty ten. Yeah, bizarre, 44 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: surreal and SMA. It's also one of the largest meetings 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: held in Egypt. Dozens and dozens of world leaders came. 46 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: What has it meant for the Egyptian government to host 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: a COP meeting. I mean it's a lot of coverage, 48 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: a lot of exposure. The renewable projects and the clean 49 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: energy has been always part of the government plan, but 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 1: COP I think made the government focus more on this 51 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: in terms of speaking about it a lot in public 52 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: speeches and interviews, local media speaking about it all the time. Now. 53 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: The other thing is the amount of coverage and exposure 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: that Egypt has is also I think it's the first 55 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: time you have this since two thousand and eleven revolution. 56 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: That's meant both good and bad coverage though, because it's 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: also highlighted issues that are very real issues around political 58 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: prisoners in Egypt, but also the energy transition, which is 59 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: slow because financing has been difficult. Definitely the good and bad. 60 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: There was good criticism in the media in the coverage 61 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: of Egypt, but also coverage of the economy, the projects, 62 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: the finance, highlighting the problems not just of Egypt but 63 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: also of Africa. In the run up to the Cup meeting, 64 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: you wrote a fantastic story with our colleagues Laura Milan 65 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: and Mirit Magdi about what a hot future would mean 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: for Egypt. What did you learn? The climate change is 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: a varies and has been a very very serious problem 68 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: for Egypt. It's a now problem. It's not like a 69 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: future threat. It's happening now. Farmers that I interviewed in 70 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: the story are suffering now in the Delta that was 71 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: the sort of old agriculture and where ancient Egyptians started 72 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: agriculture there. Basically, the rise of sea level is affecting 73 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: the crops in the farms. You can see in the fields, 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: you can see the salt is visible on the surface 75 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: of the soil, and farmers cannot find good fresh water 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: to arrigate their farms, and so we have to think 77 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: about solutions. And in these past two weeks, Oscar, what 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: have been some of the most interesting solutions that you 79 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: have heard about or experience. I mean they're all over 80 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: the place. The one that I love spotting every time 81 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: we drive to the blue zone or what I call 82 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: aspirational cycle lanes that have been built along the side 83 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: of the highways. But the most interesting one that I 84 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: tried this week was lab grown chicken. And we tried 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: it together. So this is a chicken that's not grown 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: in a chicken buy a chicken with a chicken it's chicken. 87 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 1: It's grown in a buy a reactor in a lab 88 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: actually in Singapore, and this was the first time this 89 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: had actually been served outside of Singapore, so the company 90 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: behind it, called Good Meat, actually had to do a 91 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: deal through the Singapore government with the Egyptian government to 92 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: serve the meat in Egypt for the first time. And 93 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: I would describe it as chicken esque chicken ish. I mean, 94 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: it's pretty tasty. I'd definitely eat it, but it was 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the way towards chicken. Very very impressive 96 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: for something that's grown in a lab. And I think 97 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: it's mixed into something like a stir fry. You wouldn't 98 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: even notice that it's not real chicken. On its own. 99 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't quite chicken. How do you have to say 100 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: it's true? I mean, it's just chicken, right, But the 101 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: experience of the full dinner was quite something. The experience 102 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: of the full dinner was amazing. But just coming back 103 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: to that point, everything tastes like chickens, so you know, 104 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: they've definitely started with the easiest meat to try and reproduce. 105 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: But the dinner was this twelve person kind of dimly 106 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: lit affair in a private villa in a hotel near 107 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: the sea, and then they cooked the chicken in three 108 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: different ways. So one way it was kind of a 109 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: grilled skewer type thing, the second way was a deep 110 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: fried chicken skin, and then the third way was actually 111 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: just a grilled over charcoal bit of chicken in quote 112 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: mark's breast, which was their version three. So it's the 113 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: third round of this technology that they've produced and they're 114 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: serving and yeah, that was the one that was most 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: convincingly like chicken. And there has been news since we 116 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: had that dinner because the US Food and Drug Administration 117 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 1: has now allowed cultivated chicken to be sold in the US, 118 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: so we'll see how that technology progresses. Talking of news, 119 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: there was some big news with a major world leader 120 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: making his visit to COP twenty seven. What was that like? So, 121 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: Lula president elect of Brazil, this COP at least this 122 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: COP because I haven't I don't have a reference. This 123 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: is the biggest reception any leader or any person, any 124 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: public person have received in this COP. Lots and lots 125 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: of people waiting, lots of singing, Hundreds of people were waiting. 126 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: He made two appearances, one in the morning where cameras 127 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: were stationed for three hours and people and activists and 128 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: people Brazilian people in traditional clothes were all waiting for 129 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: him to make his appearance, to make his speech, to 130 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: welcome him. That's not just because Boltsonaro has been kicked out, 131 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: but Lula also made it very promises for climate. Yeah, 132 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: I think I think his appearances is not just about 133 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: elections and local issues in Brazil. I think it's also 134 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: because he is after years of destruction of the Amazon, 135 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: which was one of the main topics that is talked 136 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 1: about in the in the activism community. It's also because 137 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: he's putting back the Amazon at the center stage of 138 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: the climate talks. Not just that he also offered to 139 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: host COP thirty in twenty twenty five from the Rainforest. 140 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: He also one of the things that made the crowd 141 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: really really lively and interrupting and cutting his speech is 142 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: that he promised to end deferstation of the Amazon by 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: twenty thirty. He also started the one billion dollars Amazon Fund, 144 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: where countries like Norway and Germany would contribute to the 145 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: illustration of the Amazon. He chose the slogan of Brazil 146 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: is Back, and that made his supporters very happy. They 147 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: were very proud. Yeah, I mean that kind of rock 148 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: star reception. I remember Barack Obama got that when COP 149 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: twenty six happened in Glasgow. He should have gone with 150 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: make the Amazon great again. Now, talking of the biggest 151 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: carbon sinks, Amazon of course is a huge carbon sink. 152 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: It's also a major source of biodiversity. Now, we are 153 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: here in Charmel Shaik, which is a desert landscape, but 154 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: there is some amazing biodiversity around here, right, Oscar, something 155 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: we got to experience. Yeah. So the middle Sunday of 156 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: COP is traditionally the rest day. So yeah, it's the 157 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: one day of the two weeks where we've actually had 158 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: a chance to kind of enjoy some of what Charmel 159 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: Shaik has to offer, and when it's not the host 160 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: city of COP twenty seven, Charmel shake is much much 161 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: better known as a very popular scuba and snorkeling resort. 162 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: So we went about thirty comments south of Charmoschek to 163 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: the Ras Mohammad National Park and spent about half a 164 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: day snow cling off the coast there and just so 165 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the most amazing coral reefs. I used to live in Japan, 166 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: where they've got plenty of plenty of coral, but a 167 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: lot of that has been bleached. But this coral was 168 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: just incredibly healthy, looking, incredibly bright, and the number of 169 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: fish that were clearly thriving and being supported by this coral, 170 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: there was just such an abundance. You've joined as well, 171 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: What did you say? It's true? When I learned about 172 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: the red sea corals, I found out that in fact 173 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: they are quite unique because they are able to survive 174 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: in very warm temperatures. Centers still don't know for sure 175 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: why that's the case, but one theory is that they 176 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: migrated from even hotter oceans further south and are now 177 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: able to survive even as the ocean is warming and 178 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: it's acidifying. So there is hope for corals. At one 179 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: point five degrees celsius, scientists say that of the coral 180 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: will be wiped out. But if you can learn how 181 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: these amazing red sea corals can survive this temperature, maybe 182 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: those are things that we could teach other corals. Right, 183 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: And this is really important because corals cover about nine 184 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: point two percent of the marine surface, so a very 185 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: very small fraction of the oceans, but they host about 186 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: twenty five percent of ocean life, and from an economic perspective, 187 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: about half a billion people's livelihoods actually depend on coral 188 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: and coral reefs, mostly from fishing, but also a little 189 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: bit from tourism as well. So protecting these corals, as 190 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: we're going to hear from our guest station the show, 191 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: Lewis Pue is husually important. Oscar and Selma, thank you, thanks, accent, 192 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: thank you. After the break, I speak with Lewis put 193 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: about his ambition to get thirty percent of the world's 194 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: ocean protected, a crucial step towards dackling climate change and 195 00:11:50,760 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: declining biodiversity. Louis, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. 196 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: Now you've been a swimmer for life and you've turned 197 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: that passion for swimming into the ability to explain the 198 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: challenges of the oceans to the world. Yeah, where did 199 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: it start for you? Well, I actually haven't been a 200 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: simmer for life. So I had my sort of first 201 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: proper summing lesson when I was seventeen years old. I 202 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: lived in Cape Town and from my history classroom I 203 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: could see Robin Island in the distance. One of my 204 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: friends had swum from Robin Island to Cape Town. And 205 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: then one day I thought to myself, I want to 206 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: do that. Describe what that swim meant to you and 207 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: why that got you on this journey. It meant everything 208 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: to me. I was pretty average at sport at school. 209 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: I was very much a late developer. I was seventeen 210 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: years old, and so I started training, and then a 211 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: month later I was able to get a boat. We 212 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: went all the way across to Robin Island and now 213 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: going to swim back, and it's about eight kilometers and 214 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: the water is icy cold, and there are sharks and 215 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: the water anyway, for a seventeen year old, no big deal. Anyway, 216 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: I started the swim and for the first hour everything 217 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: was fine. By the time I got to the second hour, 218 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: I was getting really cold. Two and a half hours, 219 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: I was absolutely frozen. I was really thin in those days. 220 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: Eventually I just couldn't carry on anymore with the crawl, 221 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: and then it was breaststroke, and then everybody in the 222 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: boat was cheering me on. And then finally, after three 223 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: hours in that icy cold water, I put my feet 224 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: down on the sand and there were my parents. It 225 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: was my first big swim. And over a period of 226 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: thirty five years, I've done swims in some of the 227 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: most incredible places in the world, Mount Everest, the North Pole, 228 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: down in Antarctic, etc. But nothing, not nothing at all 229 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: compared to that initial feeling or putting my feet down 230 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: on that sand and the joy of having made it. Oh, 231 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Tell us about the Arctic swim, then, because 232 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: that changed everything. This was many many years later. So 233 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: living in Cape Town, you know, the nearest space is 234 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: not the Arctic, the nearest space is Antarctica. And so 235 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: I always dreamed that one day I would go to 236 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: the polar regions. One day I would see the great 237 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: ice shelves of Antarctica. One day I would go up 238 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: into the Northwest Passage in places like this, And so 239 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, I decided to sail to the 240 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: North Pole to go and attempt the first ever swim 241 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: across the North Pole. So what had happened was that's 242 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: not something you should be able to do it right, 243 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: Like the point of the Arctic and the Pole, that's 244 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: supposed to be that they are frozen landscapes. This is 245 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: a point. So I've specialized now over the last sort 246 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: of fifteen years in undertaking swims in the most threatened 247 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: environments with a very very simple message. Here's a person 248 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: swimming across the North Pole, swimming across an open pa. See, 249 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: it should be frozen over. What is this saying about 250 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: the health of our planet? And then afterwards trying to 251 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: get these areas properly protected. And so this was obviously 252 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: a huge undertaking. You've got to get all the way 253 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: to the North Pole, and it's a terrifying place. I 254 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: remember standing on the ice, I remember looking in at 255 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: that black water, and then I had this most dreadful thought, 256 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: and thought was if things go horribly wrong, now, how 257 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: long will it take for my frozen corpse to sink 258 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: the four and a half kilometers to the bottom of 259 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: the Arctic Ocean. But I dived in and I went 260 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: for it. And the doctor on the expedition, his name 261 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: was Tim Noakes. He said to me, I saw you 262 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: go into that swim as one person, and I saw 263 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: you come out a completely different person. And I think 264 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: he was right, because I went in there as a swimmer, 265 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: as an environmental campaigner. I came out the other side 266 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: there with such a determination to share with the world 267 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: what is happening there and how we need to fix this, 268 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: because what I was seeing was how quickly the climate 269 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: crisis was taking place. I have not swim in deep 270 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: oceans before, but I have learned to scuba dive, and 271 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: the first time I saw corals that changed my life 272 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: because I've never seen anything like it before, and ever 273 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: since seeing corals every place that I can go, where 274 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: I can dive, I try and dive. What is it 275 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: that brought you to that moment of realizing as a 276 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: swimmer that the environment is something that you want to 277 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: campaign about. Yes, I mean I love corals as well, 278 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: So I've just done. As swim across the Red Sea, 279 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: I swim over some of the most wonderful, amazing coral 280 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: you can ever imagine, and I think of ice and 281 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: Coral as the two ground zeros of the climate crisis. 282 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: So I spent the last fifteen years in the polar regions. 283 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: I'm seeing less and less sea ice, but the big 284 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: changes were obviously seeing in the coral reefs. But I 285 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: think the moment when I realized that I had to 286 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: combine my swimming with a message for the environment I 287 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: was done in Antarctica. I was doing a swim in 288 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: a place called Deception Island. And Deception Island is the 289 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: most incredible place in Antarctica. It's got a cool name, 290 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: it's got a very cool name, and it's a horseshoe 291 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: shaped island because it used to be a volcano and 292 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: it's still an active volcano, but it's open to the sea, 293 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: and so you can actually sail into this volcano. And 294 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: as you sail in, you see the steam coming off 295 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: the sea. And so I thought to myself, well, I'm 296 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: going to do a really big swim here. I'm going 297 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: to do a long swim. Anyway, I dived into the 298 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: water and the water was between zero and three degrees, 299 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: So suddenly a big swim became a really short swim. 300 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: And as I started swimming, underneath me were literally thousands 301 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: and thousands of whale bones, jawbones, spine bones, rib bones. 302 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: This used to be one of the old whaling stations 303 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and the whalers would be out 304 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: at sea, they would store to the whales. They would 305 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: drag them into this island and then they would melt 306 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: them down. And it left a very very big mark 307 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: on me. I mean sometimes the bones were parted so 308 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: high that when I took a stroke, my hands were 309 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: touching these whalebones, and I thought about all the incredible 310 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: whales I saw as a young boy growing up in 311 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: South Africa off Cape Town, And you know when you 312 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: see a humpback whale or you see a big southern 313 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: right whale there, it just brings joy to the heart. 314 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: These are magnificent animals, and we came so close to 315 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: losing them. I mean, losing them is not the right expression. 316 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: It's like killing them, pushing them into extinction. And I 317 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: like to think that those whale bones are a reminder 318 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: of our potential for folly, because first we came for 319 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: the seals and took them all out, and then we 320 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: came for the whales and took them out, and now 321 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: we're going for this type of fish down there called 322 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: Antarctic toothfish, which is a fish which is so popular 323 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: in restaurants in the European Union and in America, and 324 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: we're taking them all out. It's like we never learn. 325 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: And so you've done this for a while, have you 326 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: seen progress happened through your work? It's so slow. I 327 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: mean at last year, I was doing a swimming greenland 328 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: across the face of a glacier there called a Lula 329 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: sat and I witnessed something which I've never seen in 330 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: all my times in the polar regions. I want you 331 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: to imagine a long field and at the top of 332 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: the field is a glacier, and that glacier is ten 333 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: kilometers wide, and enormous icebergs carving off into the sea, 334 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: and these icebergs are a kilometer toll at the mouth 335 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: of the field. Lots of these icebergs get grounded on 336 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: the seabed, and I witnessed as one of them sort 337 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: of broke free, and then thousands and thousands and thousands 338 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: of icebergs poured out of this gap straight out of 339 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: the sea. Within a few hours, they were fifty kilometers 340 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: out to sea. That glacier is now moving at a 341 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: speed of fourteen meters per day in summer. I mean, 342 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: think about that for a moment. Forty meters per day 343 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: in summer. And so every single year we have more floods, 344 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: more droughts, more storms, and it's almost as if the 345 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: glaciers now are moving quicker than our political leaders. So 346 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: you ask me, are things changing, Yes, they are changing. 347 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: It's wonderful to go to these big climate summits now 348 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: and see all the heads of state trying to grapple 349 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: this issue. But there needs to be a real sense 350 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: of urgency. Now let's talk through a story of success though, 351 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: because there is doing the expeditions that you do, highlighting 352 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: problems in the world in these really vulnerable places. But 353 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: how does that turn into a policy outcome that protects them? Yep. 354 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: So the swim is it's not the easy part. The 355 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: swimm is a really tough pot. But it gets the 356 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: media attention, it gets the attention on the issue in 357 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: that specific part of the world. But afterwards, I've got 358 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: to go to the head of state, the environment minister, 359 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: the foreign minister, and I've got to try and get action. 360 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: Let me give you one example of success, and it 361 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: was quite extraordinary. There's a place down in Antarctica called 362 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: the Ross Sea. It is truly one of the most 363 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: incredible places in the world. If you go from the 364 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: bottom of New Zealand and you get on a ship, 365 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: and if you carry on sailing to about seventy eight 366 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: degrees south, you will see this wall of ice. It's 367 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: a Ross ice shelf, and it's like sailing up to 368 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: the White Cliffs of Dover, but it's not chalk. It's 369 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: pure ice, and it's cold and it's inhospitable. And on 370 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: the sea ice you see these beautiful emperor penguins toboggling 371 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: on the ice, and the sea you see these humpback 372 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: whales coming and gorging themselves on krill. But this area 373 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: was really under threat because the big industrial fishing fleets 374 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: were going down there and wanting to take antarctics to toothfish. 375 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: And so there was an American scientist called David Ainley 376 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: who for I think sixteen or seventeen years, had been 377 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 1: calling for this area to be properly protected, to be 378 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: protected in what we call a marine protected area, which 379 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: is like a national park, but it is in the sea. 380 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: So no industrial fishing in this area, and he had 381 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: been trying to get this area protected and under international 382 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: law in the Southern Ocean, twenty five nations govern this area, 383 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: plus the EU, and they all have to agree to this. So, 384 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: you know, for year after year after year, the diplomats 385 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: had gone down to Hobart where they meet every year 386 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: to discuss this issue, and they could never get it 387 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: across the line. They could never get all twenty five 388 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: to degree it. Eventually, sort of around twenty fifteen, they 389 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: had all agreed it except Russia and China, and so 390 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: I decided, I really that if Russia and China, if 391 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: their political leadership knew how incredible this place was and 392 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: could see how incredible it was and how important it 393 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: is because this is a laboratory for scientists. They can 394 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: see what a healthy ocean looks like. You go to 395 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: any other ocean in the world and it's been totally overfished. 396 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: This was important for science, it's important for nature, it's 397 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: important for all of us. So I thought to myself, 398 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: if I can go do aus, swim there and then 399 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: go to Moscow, then I hope to be able to 400 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: persuade the Russian administration to be able to agree to 401 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: this lots of heads of states have tried that. Yes, 402 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: how did go? It was quite successful. You know, cold 403 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: world to swimming is a language which the Russians understand. 404 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: So I did the swim and my photographer there, Kelvin Troutman, 405 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: he just captured this image as I did this swim 406 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: and I got out and I was absolutely frozen. I 407 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: mean I was so cold. By hands were like claws. 408 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: The water was so cold that it was hitting up 409 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: against the side of the boat and coming up and 410 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: hitting us as slush, hitting the people in the boat 411 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: as ice mid air. That's what it was. I went 412 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: to Moscow and I started the discussions, and you know, 413 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: a negotiation must never be a battle, it must be 414 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: an exploration. And I went in there and I said, 415 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: we have to protect this place. And this place is 416 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: also important, not just for you know, all these other countries, 417 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: but it's important for Russia. It's in Russia's national interest 418 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: to also protect this place. Two years of backwards and 419 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: forwards between Moscow and Washington, and eventually they agreed. And 420 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: I'll never ever forget that moment when I got the 421 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: message that Russia was going to sign this deal. Now 422 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: at top twenty seven what do you hope would be 423 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: the best outcome for oceans. I want to see a 424 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 1: commitment to protecting at least thirty scent of the world's 425 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: oceans now over this decade, so what we call thirty 426 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: by thirty. That's the first thing. The second thing I'm 427 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: looking for is a real commitment and action to cut 428 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: our emissions. The last thing I think is about language. 429 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to you here from the United Kingdom and 430 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: they're being protesters now, environmental protesters who have been doing 431 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: protesting around London and other parts of the country, and 432 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: in some of the media they're being portrayed as eco terrorists, 433 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: as extremists. We need to be very very careful with 434 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: this language. We really do. Let me tell you what 435 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 1: extremists look like. You go to Pakistan. One third of 436 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: that country underwater in the latest flood. Over fifty million 437 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: people displaced as a result of that flood. That's extreme. 438 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: The wildfires across Europe. Okay, even outside here in London, wildfires, 439 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: that's extreme. Some environmental campaigners standing blocking roads that is 440 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: not extreme. That's inconvenient, but it's not extreme. These are 441 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: people who are risking their very liberty and their freedom 442 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: to ensure that this really important message gets across to 443 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: the public. We need to be very careful about who 444 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: are the extremists here. They're the people who are blocking 445 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: the climate action. And can you explain what do you 446 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: mean by protecting? If it's thirty by thirty, what does 447 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: protecting that thirty percent really look like? Yes, we talk 448 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: about marine protected areas. What does protection look like? Protection 449 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: is really simple. It's ensuring that there's no extractive activity 450 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: taking place. So no drilling for oil, no drilling for gas, 451 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: no big great industrial fishing feats coming along and they're 452 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: big nets and dragging them over coral reefs and taking 453 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: way all the fish. Ensuring that there's no you know 454 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: that the noise which modern activities emits are reduced considerably. 455 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: So no big shipping companies sending their ships through these areas, 456 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: no gunnery exercises by navies, allowing nature to recover. And 457 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: you are also the United Nations Patron of the Oceans. Yes, 458 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: that's a wonderful title. What does it mean? So when 459 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: the head of the United Nations Environment Program appointed me 460 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: in this position, they said, Lewis, you know you're a swimmer, 461 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: You're a maritime lawyer. You're in the oceans. You're talking 462 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: about protecting the oceans all the time. Please would you 463 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: be the un patron of the oceans. I obviously said yes. 464 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: And the executive director he said, Lewis, please just be 465 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: a voice for the oceans. Be a voice for all 466 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: the magnificent wildlife and oceans. The whales, are dolphins, are penguins, 467 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: the sharks, the odd all of them. It's morphed a 468 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: little bit over the eight years, and now I need 469 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: to be a voice for protection of the oceans, but 470 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: also a voice for protection of the polar regions because 471 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: this is where we are really seeing the climate crisis 472 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: now moving so very very quickly. Now you're described a 473 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: sweet moment to us when you described your first long 474 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: swim and what it felt to stand on your two 475 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: feet on a sandy beach at the end of it. 476 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: What is a bitter moment in your life? Then I 477 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: did a swim down in South Georgia, and to swim 478 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: in South Georgia is to swim in one of the 479 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: most incredible places on the planet. I mean, there's a 480 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: bay down in South Georgia, and just explain with South 481 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: Georgia is deep down in the South Atlantic near Antarctica, 482 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: and there's a beach there where you've got two hundred 483 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand king penguins. I mean to see king 484 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: penguins come ashore and with their white chest and the 485 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: gold boat ties and the black backs, and then they 486 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: are so agile in the water, darting backwards and force 487 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: and to swim over them and see them moving under 488 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: the water, it's a real treat. And then they come 489 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: ashore and then they stand up, and then they start 490 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: waddling up the beach. And on the beach are these 491 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: enormous great elephant seals and they're fighting on the beach. 492 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: It's amazing. And I've been trying to get the British 493 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: government to commit to properly protecting this area. You know, 494 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: there's still industrial fishing which takes place in the waters 495 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: around South Georgia and then nearby South Sandwich Islands, and 496 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: so I even went to do a swim there and 497 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: still it's not fully protected. And I think, you know, 498 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: if there was there's anything which is a bit as 499 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: a strong word, but we really should be protecting these 500 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: last great wildernesses left on Earth. And for me, it's 501 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: it's a little bitter, but it's also unfinished business. Yeah. 502 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a story that came to the 503 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: Frozen Planet. I don't know if you've seen the documentary yet, 504 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: but the last episode they talk about there's a scientists 505 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: who went there in nineteen seventy four and he is 506 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: leaving the Antarctic for the last time, you know, he's 507 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: worked for the last forty five years and the Antarctic 508 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: learning about the oceans, and he makes one last trip 509 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: to an island where he says that was the first 510 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: island I came on which was full of Adelhi penguins, 511 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: and I think it was ten years ago. It was 512 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: the first island to have an extinction event for Adelic penguins. 513 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: And he just he broke, you know, he like crys 514 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: on camera, and I'm like, this is this is why 515 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: we worry about these issues so much. When I did 516 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: my first swim, so this was from Robin Island to 517 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: Cape Town, I remember looking at the beach where I 518 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: started a swim and it was full of these beautiful 519 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: African penguins. And African penguins are so noisy and they're 520 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: just full of life, and they're all going at each 521 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: other and the whole which was full of them. I 522 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: went back a few years ago with a TV crew 523 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,719 Speaker 1: and do you know how many penguins we saw on 524 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: the island. Two And it's three things which have come 525 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: together to create the situation. The first is serious overfishing 526 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: and overfishing right next to these penguin colonies, so the 527 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: penguins are competing with a fishermen. The second thing that's 528 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: happened is because of the climate crisis, the prey species, 529 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: the food which they eat is much further away. It's moved, 530 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: and so they've got to swum so much further to 531 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: get to them and then come back and then give 532 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: the food to the chicks. But the last thing is 533 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: the devastating thing, and that is you can have an 534 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: oil spell, and certainly around the caper could hope. Often 535 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: oil tankers run aground or you get an oil spell 536 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: that can wipe out a penguin colony overnight. And the 537 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: science now is that the penguins on the west coast 538 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: of South Africa and Namibia, they're going to go functionally 539 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: extinct in just fifteen years time. And I go back 540 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: to my childhood when I was standing there on the 541 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: beach on Robin Islands, and I looked back and it 542 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: was full of African penguins, and I weep. Yeah. It's 543 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: also stunning to me that we know, just as you 544 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: pointed out the three main factors that affected a species. 545 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: We study them, we study their decline, we put scientific 546 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: resources to understand the very specific thing that caused it. Yes, 547 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: but we always know what the solutions are. Yes, And 548 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: yet we know we are really simple forced to learn 549 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: about the specific problems that caused it, even though the 550 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: solutions have been the same for the longest time. Stop 551 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: burning oil, stop digging up co stop hacking the fins 552 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: of sharks, stop pouring single use plastics into the oceans. 553 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: It really is also simple. That was a great conversation. 554 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Thanks for 555 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: listening to Zero. If you like the show, please rate 556 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: a review and subscribe, Tell a friend or tell a swimmer. 557 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: If you've got a suggestion for a guest or topic 558 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: or something you just want us to look into, get 559 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: in touch at zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Until 560 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: November eighteenth, the Bloomberg Green paywall is down. Head to 561 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com slash green to read all our latest 562 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: coverage and everything in the archives for Absolutely Free. Zero's 563 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: producer is Oscar Boyd and senior producer is Christine riskoll Our. 564 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: Theme music is composed by Wonderley Special thanks to Ki 565 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: up in Grim and Stacy Wong. I'm Akshatrati back with 566 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: our final episode from COP twenty seven next week