1 00:00:02,750 --> 00:00:05,590 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. 2 00:00:05,910 --> 00:00:07,230 Speaker 2: Radio. News. 3 00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:21,500 Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Thoughts Podcast. 4 00:00:21,610 --> 00:00:22,550 Speaker 4: I'm Tracy Alloway. 5 00:00:22,670 --> 00:00:25,730 Speaker 3: And I'm Joe Weisenthal. So we're here in Hollywood, our 6 00:00:25,790 --> 00:00:29,390 Speaker 3: first ever live Odd Thoughts show in LA. And when 7 00:00:29,410 --> 00:00:31,190 Speaker 3: we come to LA, I feel like we have to 8 00:00:31,250 --> 00:00:33,310 Speaker 3: talk about the influencer economy, right? 9 00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: The influencer economy, the creator economy, people who have 8 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,979 Speaker 1: million followers on Instagram that none of us have ever 11 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:44,050 Speaker 1: heard of. well, there's so much I don't know about 12 00:00:44,070 --> 00:00:46,850 Speaker 1: this world. There's so much I need to learn. And 13 00:00:46,870 --> 00:00:49,710 Speaker 1: of course, we need to learn how AI is upending 14 00:00:49,729 --> 00:00:50,030 Speaker 1: all of it. 15 00:00:50,330 --> 00:00:50,629 Speaker 4: That's right. 16 00:00:50,650 --> 00:00:55,070 Speaker 3: So this is the existential question facing creators. What happens 17 00:00:55,150 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: to them when creating content essentially becomes free or extremely 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 3: low cost? So we have two very special guests for you. 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,660 Speaker 3: We are going to be speaking with Taylor Lorenz. She is, 20 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: of course, the founder of UserMag, as well as Rachel Carton. 21 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 3: She is a social media consultant and author also. of 22 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,190 Speaker 3: the Substack link in bio. 23 00:01:13,810 --> 00:01:16,209 Speaker 1: Since we're here in LA and as we've alluded to 24 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:19,380 Speaker 1: in the past, we got to learn about influencers and 25 00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: people with 5 million followers on Instagram and how they're 26 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: dealing with this moment. 27 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,810 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we do, in fact, have the perfect guest. 28 00:01:26,910 --> 00:01:29,950 Speaker 1: That's right. Thrilled to welcome to the stage the one 29 00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:34,709 Speaker 1: and only Taylor Lorenz, founder of Usermag, as well as 30 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:38,810 Speaker 1: Rachel Carton, social media consultant, author of the great sub-stack 31 00:01:38,950 --> 00:01:39,770 Speaker 1: Link and Buy. 32 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:46,860 Speaker 3: Hello. 33 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 4: Hello. 34 00:01:51,890 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for doing this. Thanks for 35 00:01:57,620 --> 00:01:59,580 Speaker 1: having us. 36 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:01,380 Speaker 4: What are you covering these days? 37 00:02:01,420 --> 00:02:01,980 Speaker 1: How would you. 38 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 4: Describe your coverage here? 39 00:02:02,860 --> 00:02:03,140 Speaker 5: Sure. 40 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:08,750 Speaker 4: I write a newsletter called Lincoln Bio. Oh, yay. It's 41 00:02:08,790 --> 00:02:09,510 Speaker 4: really good. 42 00:02:09,550 --> 00:02:10,609 Speaker 1: Everyone should subscribe. 43 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:13,030 Speaker 4: Thank you. It's about working in social media. 44 00:02:13,130 --> 00:02:16,580 Speaker 5: It's the primary trade publication for social media teams. 45 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:18,500 Speaker 4: And I interview. 46 00:02:19,540 --> 00:02:23,450 Speaker 5: So I have interviewed everyone from the social team who 47 00:02:24,190 --> 00:02:26,490 Speaker 5: covered Artemis to Chanti Beluga. 48 00:02:26,510 --> 00:02:31,190 Speaker 1: I forgot about that one. Is that already? 49 00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:31,590 Speaker 5: Is that still? 50 00:02:31,630 --> 00:02:33,650 Speaker 4: That was like a one week thing, right? 51 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 2: And I am a tech journalist. I write usermag.co. That's 52 00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 2: my sub stack. I write about, I kind of do 53 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:45,660 Speaker 2: a lot of roundups about like online culture, write about tech, 54 00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: a lot of tech policy stuff too. Yeah. 55 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:48,690 Speaker 4: A little bit of everything. 56 00:02:48,810 --> 00:02:51,149 Speaker 2: So everybody subscribe to that one as well. 57 00:02:51,270 --> 00:02:52,010 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 58 00:02:52,610 --> 00:02:56,530 Speaker 3: What are the vibes like right now in social media? 59 00:02:56,669 --> 00:02:59,790 Speaker 4: It's a loaded question. All right, go on. 60 00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:03,460 Speaker 5: Backstage, Taylor showed me a video that she was impressed by. 61 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: No, shut up. 62 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:05,460 Speaker 5: You guys. 63 00:03:06,930 --> 00:03:08,070 Speaker 4: She was really impressed by it. 64 00:03:08,090 --> 00:03:11,140 Speaker 2: Literally, we were backstage and I haven't been on Twitter 65 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 2: that much today. I saw one frame of this video 66 00:03:15,190 --> 00:03:18,389 Speaker 2: that was the most AI-generated crap I've ever... And I 67 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:21,030 Speaker 2: was like, did you guys see a Coca-Cola truck exploded? 68 00:03:21,790 --> 00:03:25,300 Speaker 5: It was a Coca-Cola truck that was exploding Coke out. 69 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 4: And somebody had a bucket and she was like, did 70 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 4: you see this? 71 00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: I said, Taylor, please. And then the next scene is 72 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,540 Speaker 2: there's actually a Mentos truck next door and the guy 73 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: falls in and like explodes through the sky. And I 74 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:38,589 Speaker 2: was like, oh my God, I'm becoming. And the caption 75 00:03:38,630 --> 00:03:41,310 Speaker 2: was like the AI videos that your mom sends you. 76 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:43,050 Speaker 2: Oh man. And that's what I showed Rachel. 77 00:03:43,070 --> 00:03:45,690 Speaker 1: I think that like younger people might not remember the 78 00:03:45,730 --> 00:03:50,220 Speaker 1: fact that for like many years, the only content on 79 00:03:50,260 --> 00:03:53,100 Speaker 1: the internet was Mentos and Coca-Cola. That's like all we 80 00:03:53,140 --> 00:03:54,780 Speaker 1: looked at for like a few years. 81 00:03:54,820 --> 00:03:55,900 Speaker 4: That's like really strange. 82 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: No, but here's an important question. So the people that 83 00:03:59,170 --> 00:04:01,630 Speaker 1: you cover, let's start with you, Rachel. The people that 84 00:04:01,670 --> 00:04:06,630 Speaker 1: you talk to who are social media professionals, do they 85 00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: feel as if like AI is, Is we're going to like, 86 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,020 Speaker 1: how is it about like, are they mostly of the 87 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:17,740 Speaker 1: frame like, oh, I can do what I do? Or 88 00:04:17,779 --> 00:04:20,700 Speaker 1: do they mostly see it as an augmenter? Oh, I 89 00:04:20,740 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: can do much more of the job that I know 90 00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:25,460 Speaker 1: how to do for years with these new tools. 91 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:28,710 Speaker 5: So I think the way that AI is showing up 92 00:04:28,750 --> 00:04:32,490 Speaker 5: for a lot of marketing teams is through their boss. 93 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 4: I wrote an article about this called Does Your Boss 94 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,300 Speaker 4: Have AI Brain? 95 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 5: And I talked to like a hundred marketers who are 96 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,310 Speaker 5: dealing with an issue where their boss is asking them 97 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:48,650 Speaker 5: to use AI and their boss is using AI themselves 98 00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:51,370 Speaker 5: and they're outsourcing all of their gut instincts to AI. 99 00:04:51,770 --> 00:04:54,950 Speaker 5: And so I heard stories of a social manager who 100 00:04:54,990 --> 00:04:56,890 Speaker 5: worked hard on a funny meme and they'll send it 101 00:04:56,930 --> 00:04:59,650 Speaker 5: to their boss and they run it through Claude and ask, 102 00:04:59,770 --> 00:05:00,390 Speaker 5: is this funny? 103 00:05:01,410 --> 00:05:03,290 Speaker 1: That's so grim. That's so grim. 104 00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:09,500 Speaker 5: I heard another example of a marketer who their boss 105 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:13,540 Speaker 5: only buys into ideas that came from Copilot. And so 106 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 5: they actually will mock up their ideas into the Copilot 107 00:05:16,660 --> 00:05:19,970 Speaker 5: UI to send their boss to get it approved. And 108 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:22,710 Speaker 5: so the quote that sticks with me from that article 109 00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:26,130 Speaker 5: is demoralizing as hell. And so that's the way that 110 00:05:26,150 --> 00:05:28,670 Speaker 5: a lot of marketers are interacting with AI is their 111 00:05:28,690 --> 00:05:30,070 Speaker 5: boss sort of forcing. 112 00:05:29,750 --> 00:05:30,190 Speaker 4: It upon them. 113 00:05:30,230 --> 00:05:32,849 Speaker 5: And my takeaway from that wasn't like ban AI from 114 00:05:32,890 --> 00:05:37,180 Speaker 5: marketing teams, but I felt like, you know, the way 115 00:05:37,190 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 5: that AI is being implemented is sort of a free 116 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,180 Speaker 5: for all. And I was thinking back to my time 117 00:05:41,220 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 5: when I worked at Condé Nast, you know, I think 118 00:05:43,060 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 5: they had Asana onboarded and we spent months, right? Like 119 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 5: learning how to use Asana, what's the right way to 120 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 5: use this workflow, and that training isn't happening on marketing teams, 121 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 5: and so it feels like there's no philosophies or guardrails 122 00:05:54,620 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 5: for marketers to feel like their boss is giving to them. 123 00:06:00,270 --> 00:06:01,669 Speaker 4: Devil's advocate question. 124 00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:04,570 Speaker 3: I know we're talking about how grim it is to 125 00:06:04,970 --> 00:06:08,630 Speaker 3: work for a boss with AI psychosis, and everyone at 126 00:06:08,670 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: the moment seems to hate AI-generated content. but you could 127 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:16,869 Speaker 3: imagine a world in three to five years, maybe even sooner, 128 00:06:16,890 --> 00:06:20,089 Speaker 3: where we don't, yeah, three months, where we don't actually 129 00:06:20,130 --> 00:06:26,430 Speaker 3: care anymore. Like, why should we dislike AI-generated social media 130 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:27,550 Speaker 3: or marketing content? 131 00:06:28,190 --> 00:06:29,969 Speaker 5: Well, I think I can speak to it from the 132 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 5: brand side, and I do feel like consumers have an 133 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 5: expectation that a brand is putting creative effort into things, 134 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,710 Speaker 5: and the effort that they put into their social media 135 00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:43,830 Speaker 5: is a reflection of the effort that they are putting 136 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:50,300 Speaker 5: into their product. And I think that consumers feel that 137 00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:53,060 Speaker 5: through it. And that has always been true about creative, 138 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,420 Speaker 5: you know, brands like Nike have, you know, built so 139 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 5: much of their world around their, you know, investment into creative. 140 00:07:01,110 --> 00:07:02,930 Speaker 5: And so it's seen as a shortcut and it might 141 00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:07,570 Speaker 5: make you ask, you know, if, your favorite Chipotle, whatever, 142 00:07:07,610 --> 00:07:10,250 Speaker 5: your favorite fast food chain is using AI generated imagery. 143 00:07:10,270 --> 00:07:14,270 Speaker 5: What other shortcuts might they be taking in their process? Yeah. 144 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:17,670 Speaker 2: I totally agree. I think from a content standpoint too, 145 00:07:17,750 --> 00:07:20,630 Speaker 2: people actually do enjoy AI generated content. 146 00:07:21,420 --> 00:07:22,820 Speaker 4: It's so crazy on YouTube. 147 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:24,750 Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys have noticed, but All 148 00:07:24,770 --> 00:07:28,010 Speaker 2: these YouTubers are just reading AI-generated scripts now, and it's so... 149 00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:29,690 Speaker 2: And you look at the comments, people will be like, 150 00:07:29,770 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: amazing analysis, great script. So I think people actually like 151 00:07:33,980 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: it sometimes when they don't know they're consuming it. Sometimes 152 00:07:36,260 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: they actively know they're consuming it. I think people just 153 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: don't want to feel tricked. That's when it starts to 154 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: feel bad because you're like, oh. Yeah. 155 00:07:43,060 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: I think it was your newsletter that I first heard 156 00:07:46,540 --> 00:07:49,740 Speaker 1: about the, what is it, the fruit slop or the 157 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: fruit soap. 158 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:52,780 Speaker 4: Et cetera. Yeah. 159 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,110 Speaker 1: And I think you made the point you can have 160 00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:57,060 Speaker 1: a bunch of people in a comment section like, oh, 161 00:07:57,070 --> 00:08:00,470 Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed. Oh, you used AI for this. It's disgusting. 162 00:08:00,710 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: And then they scroll to the next reel. It's like, oh, 163 00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:06,610 Speaker 1: I love this story about an orange falling in love 164 00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:07,489 Speaker 1: with a carrot. 165 00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:11,050 Speaker 4: Fruit Love Island. Yeah, Fruit Love Island. Fruit Love Island. 166 00:08:11,070 --> 00:08:13,570 Speaker 1: What do you explain this disconnect as you see it? 167 00:08:14,050 --> 00:08:19,110 Speaker 5: Well, I think that consumers are confused in general over 168 00:08:19,210 --> 00:08:23,100 Speaker 5: what they should like online right now. And I think 169 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 5: that Fruit Love Island feels like a low stakes. They're 170 00:08:26,420 --> 00:08:28,620 Speaker 5: like it's a meme and they don't care about the 171 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 5: craft of a meme, but they care about the craft 172 00:08:30,940 --> 00:08:35,380 Speaker 5: of a company that they purchase from. Um, but, and 173 00:08:35,420 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 5: so I think, yeah, they could be the same person 174 00:08:37,140 --> 00:08:39,170 Speaker 5: who's like yelling at the company for an AI generated 175 00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:43,270 Speaker 5: menu and they're sending their friend AI fruit slop. 176 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:48,929 Speaker 3: Um, I sort of asked Hayes this question earlier, but 177 00:08:48,950 --> 00:08:54,540 Speaker 3: in our AI generated world, I guess. How do we 178 00:08:54,580 --> 00:08:58,750 Speaker 3: feel about existing content or existing incumbents when it comes 179 00:08:58,850 --> 00:09:02,170 Speaker 3: to social media? Do people who already have an audience, 180 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:05,770 Speaker 3: who already have a following, who maybe have proved authenticity 181 00:09:05,809 --> 00:09:07,929 Speaker 3: in some way or that they're willing to put effort 182 00:09:08,050 --> 00:09:11,310 Speaker 3: into their own work, do they become more valuable in 183 00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: this environment? Or is it another case of low entry costs? 184 00:09:16,460 --> 00:09:18,700 Speaker 3: Anyone can come in and make content for free. And 185 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 3: so we see a sort of further trend of, I guess, 186 00:09:21,100 --> 00:09:23,540 Speaker 3: what we used to call the democratization of media. 187 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 2: Well, I think that like, if you think about, I 188 00:09:26,980 --> 00:09:28,820 Speaker 2: think it depends on the type of content you're making. 189 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,470 Speaker 2: Are you making deeply parasocial content about like your life 190 00:09:31,510 --> 00:09:35,140 Speaker 2: and your opinions? So many creators, the value that they, 191 00:09:35,179 --> 00:09:38,630 Speaker 2: like the way that media was democratized was through how-to content. 192 00:09:38,670 --> 00:09:40,930 Speaker 2: If you think of like, even just the earliest YouTube videos, 193 00:09:40,950 --> 00:09:42,310 Speaker 2: it was all makeup, it was how to do this. 194 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:45,210 Speaker 2: And I actually think AI is a better authority and 195 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:48,349 Speaker 2: people will turn to AI for how to fix your dishwasher. 196 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:50,390 Speaker 2: Like it's much easier to get that. So I think 197 00:09:50,410 --> 00:09:52,990 Speaker 2: those creators are going to struggle. But then there are 198 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:56,270 Speaker 2: other creators that are going to use the tools to 199 00:09:56,309 --> 00:09:58,390 Speaker 2: make great content and they make content that is not 200 00:09:58,450 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: easily replicable. You know, maybe it's commentary that's sort of. 201 00:10:02,100 --> 00:10:04,620 Speaker 3: My mom, by the way, she was very proud. She 202 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,180 Speaker 3: was telling me that she used ChatGPT to fix her 203 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: toilet recently. 204 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,150 Speaker 1: Good for her. 205 00:10:09,460 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: Which was, I wouldn't have expected her to be able 206 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: to do that. 207 00:10:27,980 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: Taylor is a keen observer of the online discourse. One 208 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: of the, you know, maybe more online than I am somehow. 209 00:10:37,220 --> 00:10:40,380 Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like, you know, in the last month, 210 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,780 Speaker 1: you know, a month ago, there was like a lot 211 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,870 Speaker 1: of people arguing about data centers. And then in the 212 00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:47,970 Speaker 1: last week, there were a bunch of people arguing about 213 00:10:48,130 --> 00:10:51,910 Speaker 1: models themselves as this sort of like site of controversy. 214 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:55,230 Speaker 1: Do you feel like, let's just say we're talking about AI, 215 00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: that like... the speed with which the public takes on 216 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: a new thing is it's just like an extraordinary rapid pace. 217 00:11:02,179 --> 00:11:04,460 Speaker 1: And that's like, Oh, you're still arguing about data centers. 218 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,150 Speaker 1: Wasn't that like a sort of, Wasn't that a July issue? 219 00:11:07,170 --> 00:11:09,210 Speaker 2: That was so July. I feel like there's, I mean, 220 00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:12,350 Speaker 2: there was going to be outrage on social media. Data 221 00:11:12,370 --> 00:11:16,330 Speaker 2: centers is an issue of 2026. I saw, I think 222 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: it was like Morris Katz, the political consultant, actually saying 223 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:20,540 Speaker 2: like people are going to make a mistake and think 224 00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: it's a 2028 election cycle issue. It's actually a very 225 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: 2026 election cycle issue. And probably by 2028, we will 226 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,179 Speaker 2: have something new to get mad about. 227 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:28,540 Speaker 5: Yeah. 228 00:11:29,580 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, the data center discourse has been 229 00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: interesting because those people are against AI for a very 230 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,540 Speaker 2: different reason than the X-risk people that think it's going 231 00:11:37,570 --> 00:11:39,610 Speaker 2: to kill all of us. And so far, those people 232 00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:41,650 Speaker 2: have not really come together to form any sort of 233 00:11:41,710 --> 00:11:45,270 Speaker 2: coherent coalition. So I feel like maybe they should join up. 234 00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 2: But they have very different interests. And I don't think 235 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,540 Speaker 2: it's going to kill us, by the way. We're going 236 00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: to be fine. 237 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,180 Speaker 4: I was going to ask, so. 238 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 3: You wrote about the idea of when we talk about 239 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 3: rogue AI potentially killing us, getting the discourse and the 240 00:11:59,020 --> 00:12:02,339 Speaker 3: language about that possibility right. Give us the sort of 241 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,300 Speaker 3: nutshell argument. Like, what is the distinction that we need 242 00:12:06,330 --> 00:12:06,990 Speaker 3: to be making here? 243 00:12:07,210 --> 00:12:09,010 Speaker 2: Okay, so first of all, it's not going to kill us. 244 00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:11,830 Speaker 2: It's just, like, it's actually so hard to kill all 245 00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:13,510 Speaker 2: humans on Earth, like, even if we wanted to. 246 00:12:13,510 --> 00:12:14,069 Speaker 3: Well, that's a relief. 247 00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:19,030 Speaker 2: So we're probably going to be fine. I think like 248 00:12:19,210 --> 00:12:23,230 Speaker 2: what I think is concerning or worth interrogating is the 249 00:12:23,270 --> 00:12:25,469 Speaker 2: way that we anthropomorphize AI. And that's what I wrote 250 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:29,170 Speaker 2: about is the way that people assign agency to these products. 251 00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,210 Speaker 2: And I think in some ways it's really great to 252 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:34,890 Speaker 2: do that because we have to describe, you know, You 253 00:12:34,910 --> 00:12:36,930 Speaker 2: have to sort of describe how they work, but they're 254 00:12:36,970 --> 00:12:40,420 Speaker 2: not humans. And we are talking about computer programs. And 255 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,059 Speaker 2: I do think that when we go to these policy 256 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: debates about liability and stuff, it's really important to recognize 257 00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:48,140 Speaker 2: that these are not like truly living beings. 258 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: I saw one of the former FTC commissioners. He's like, 259 00:12:53,220 --> 00:12:55,770 Speaker 1: AI isn't going to kill us. We survived the black 260 00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:57,790 Speaker 1: death and that only killed 50 percent of us. So 261 00:12:57,809 --> 00:13:00,470 Speaker 1: it's like, all right. Great. That's a really big. 262 00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:02,530 Speaker 2: But also just because something kills us doesn't mean it's 263 00:13:02,630 --> 00:13:05,130 Speaker 2: smarter than us. You know, like a virus can kill 264 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:08,290 Speaker 2: a lot of people. It's not smarter than us. Okay. 265 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:11,550 Speaker 1: On the question of intelligence. So like, yes, this idea, 266 00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:14,060 Speaker 1: like it makes you sick to your stomach to think like, oh, 267 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,420 Speaker 1: you've come up with something funny. And then they're like, well, 268 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,380 Speaker 1: my buddy Claude doesn't think that it's funny. But do 269 00:13:22,420 --> 00:13:26,620 Speaker 1: you see in the marketing world currently productive uses of 270 00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:32,390 Speaker 1: the technology to whether it's AB testing things or like, okay, 271 00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: like it's easy to make fun of it, but also 272 00:13:34,890 --> 00:13:38,219 Speaker 1: AI models do often tend to like do pretty like 273 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,099 Speaker 1: good answers to things. Do you see positive productive applications 274 00:13:43,179 --> 00:13:44,300 Speaker 1: of it in the marketing world? 275 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 5: The, the, interesting way that I've seen it is that 276 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 5: a lot of agencies will be selling through ideas that 277 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:55,220 Speaker 5: they want to do in the real world and in 278 00:13:55,260 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 5: their decks or in a way to help a boss 279 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,579 Speaker 5: who has maybe a lack of imagination visualize what that 280 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:05,380 Speaker 5: big idea is. So I have been interested by using 281 00:14:05,620 --> 00:14:07,849 Speaker 5: AI to mock something up to then be able to 282 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:09,699 Speaker 5: make it in the real world and have like a 283 00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:13,130 Speaker 5: human impact on it. But so that's, that's something that 284 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:13,870 Speaker 5: I'm interested in. 285 00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:15,930 Speaker 4: But I don't. 286 00:14:15,790 --> 00:14:19,710 Speaker 5: Hear that a lot of marketers are having success having 287 00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:23,590 Speaker 5: it generate captions or post ideas. And it's not really 288 00:14:23,610 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 5: a strategy that I personally recommend either. 289 00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: Taylor, how are you using it? 290 00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:32,340 Speaker 2: Good question. Don't cancel me because people get so mad 291 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: when you talk about it. But I use it mostly, 292 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: kind of like what Rachel was saying, as like an 293 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,660 Speaker 2: assistive tool. I don't think it's a good writing. Also, 294 00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:40,810 Speaker 2: if I'm writing, I kind of want to express my thoughts. 295 00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:43,500 Speaker 2: Like that's the whole point. So I mostly use it for, like, 296 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 2: SEO captions, generating, like, you know, making on the Canva, 297 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,030 Speaker 2: you know, app, making an image bigger, things like that. 298 00:14:50,490 --> 00:14:52,350 Speaker 2: I also, I wish it could edit. I try out 299 00:14:52,390 --> 00:14:54,350 Speaker 2: all these AI editing tools. This is why I don't 300 00:14:54,370 --> 00:14:56,110 Speaker 2: think it's going to kill us just yet. It cannot 301 00:14:56,190 --> 00:15:00,050 Speaker 2: even edit a podcast. So we're, you know, there's a gap. 302 00:15:01,630 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: One thing I'm curious about for both of you from 303 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,170 Speaker 1: the perspective of social media is you We have 24 304 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:11,730 Speaker 1: hours in the day. Let's say eight of them were 305 00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:15,820 Speaker 1: sleeping roughly. So it's like, okay, maybe you can scroll 306 00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:16,300 Speaker 1: for 16 hours. But. 307 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: They're going to do a few other things. But now 308 00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:23,020 Speaker 1: there's like a bunch of that time that once it 309 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,660 Speaker 1: was spent scrolling might be spent time talking to a chatbot. 310 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,740 Speaker 1: And I'm curious if you feel it where it's like 311 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,420 Speaker 1: setting aside whether AI is useful, not bad in creation, 312 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:39,550 Speaker 1: whether chatbot time is taking away from scrolling time to 313 00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:40,910 Speaker 1: the detriment of brands and marketers. 314 00:15:41,390 --> 00:15:43,940 Speaker 5: No. I think getting off of phones and off of 315 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,180 Speaker 5: technology is more of a threat. 316 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: But AI is going to get us off the phones. Like, 317 00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 2: I do think screen time is going to help. 318 00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:49,820 Speaker 1: Wait, but why not? Because a lot of people are 319 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:51,780 Speaker 1: chatting using chatbots, right? 320 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 5: They're not. 321 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:54,690 Speaker 4: Social media is entertainment. 322 00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:59,350 Speaker 5: Social media is DMing your friend something who's a real person. Yeah. 323 00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:03,390 Speaker 5: And I think chatting with a chatbot is a very... 324 00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:09,490 Speaker 5: different function. And I'm more concerned about people wanting to 325 00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:10,020 Speaker 5: log off. 326 00:16:10,030 --> 00:16:12,780 Speaker 1: But when I go to social media, I tweet something 327 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,060 Speaker 1: and a bunch of people are like, oh, this guy's 328 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,300 Speaker 1: an idiot. People told me that today. Or Joe, I 329 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,250 Speaker 1: used to like Joe, but he's lost his mind. 330 00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:20,270 Speaker 4: Well, maybe you're using AI too much. 331 00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:22,530 Speaker 1: I probably am. But what I'm saying is I could 332 00:16:22,570 --> 00:16:24,850 Speaker 1: then go, if I use Claude, it's never going to 333 00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:27,270 Speaker 1: insult me like that. So it's like, well, that's bad. 334 00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:28,110 Speaker 2: That's bad. 335 00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:30,370 Speaker 1: Of course it's bad, but I have the, I have 336 00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:33,550 Speaker 1: the iron to resist the temptation, but couldn't a lot 337 00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:35,370 Speaker 1: of people was like, wow, this is much more pleasant. 338 00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:37,130 Speaker 4: I don't get dunked on when I talk to. 339 00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:40,910 Speaker 1: ChatGPT in the way I do in the comments section 340 00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:41,170 Speaker 1: on Instagram. 341 00:16:41,410 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 5: I would say that Twitter as a social media platform 342 00:16:43,820 --> 00:16:47,420 Speaker 5: is so significantly different than TikTok and Instagram where people 343 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,220 Speaker 5: are scrolling and it's like TV for them and. 344 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 4: They're not getting insulted on there. And so. 345 00:16:51,830 --> 00:16:53,750 Speaker 5: I think that's a little bit more specific to. 346 00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:55,230 Speaker 4: A Twitter scroller. 347 00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:57,630 Speaker 2: But don't you think that like screen time, I think it's, 348 00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:59,500 Speaker 2: I write a lot about the moral panic over screen 349 00:16:59,510 --> 00:17:02,060 Speaker 2: time and everybody is so concerned about it. And it 350 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:03,900 Speaker 2: is going away. Like, I do think that like this 351 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: form factor of this type of phone is going to 352 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,100 Speaker 2: die quite soon. And we're seeing wearables, we're seeing, you know, 353 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: people with the ear pods in, like, I just think 354 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: we're spending less and less time actually looking at a screen. 355 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: And I think in the future, we're going to interact 356 00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:17,940 Speaker 2: much more ambiently. 357 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,300 Speaker 5: I think a small subset of people want us to 358 00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:23,700 Speaker 5: believe that personally. I don't see that out in the world. 359 00:17:23,790 --> 00:17:26,490 Speaker 2: I guess I see that so much where I just see, 360 00:17:26,510 --> 00:17:29,430 Speaker 2: I see like, I get what you're saying for entertainment. 361 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: But in terms of just, like, your mom, like, going 362 00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: to fix the dishwasher, like, just all these other times 363 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: where we used to have to turn to a screen 364 00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: to text, to message a friend. 365 00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:38,940 Speaker 4: But that's a screen, though. 366 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: Right, but I'm saying, like, if you're asking about, like, 367 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: looking at our screens, I just think that, like, we're 368 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:45,370 Speaker 2: looking at our screens less and less, and if you 369 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 2: check it less, you're going to get sucked in less. 370 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:50,130 Speaker 5: But using chat to learn how to fix a toilet 371 00:17:50,290 --> 00:17:52,030 Speaker 5: is actually, I would have called a plumber and had 372 00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:53,449 Speaker 5: a real interaction with somebody. 373 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:57,270 Speaker 4: I'm just saying, like, if you're arguing a screen... I. 374 00:17:57,790 --> 00:17:59,619 Speaker 2: Just think there's less and less reasons to be on 375 00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 2: our phone as we have wearables. As I'm sure you 376 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:04,820 Speaker 2: guys saw, there was this persona band that came out 377 00:18:04,859 --> 00:18:08,420 Speaker 2: this week that you can whisper to. I just feel 378 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:12,460 Speaker 2: like everyone's fridge and washing and everything in your home 379 00:18:12,530 --> 00:18:14,730 Speaker 2: is smart now. I just feel like we're not going 380 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:16,750 Speaker 2: to have to do everything through our phone as much 381 00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:19,830 Speaker 2: maybe with the glasses too. And so I just think 382 00:18:19,869 --> 00:18:22,090 Speaker 2: that that might end up altering the way that we 383 00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:23,609 Speaker 2: interact with these media platforms. 384 00:18:24,430 --> 00:18:27,350 Speaker 5: Totally. I just think that those are equally as antisocial 385 00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:28,330 Speaker 5: in my opinion. Oh, yeah. 386 00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:29,190 Speaker 4: No, totally. 387 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:29,950 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. 388 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:32,550 Speaker 4: I'm not saying that it's more pro-social. We're all agreed 389 00:18:32,609 --> 00:18:33,770 Speaker 4: on the antisocialness. 390 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:34,150 Speaker 5: Don't worry. 391 00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 4: We all agree it's bad. 392 00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:39,940 Speaker 1: You're going to need dual-factor authentication to open your refrigerator. 393 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,700 Speaker 1: Open up your Google Auth and put in your six-digit 394 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,460 Speaker 1: code and then I'm back looking at the screen. 395 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,780 Speaker 3: Wait, can I just ask, on the platforms themselves, in 396 00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:53,090 Speaker 3: the age of AI slop and essentially free content generation, 397 00:18:53,109 --> 00:18:56,670 Speaker 3: do they become more or less powerful? 398 00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:59,450 Speaker 4: And I can see arguing it from both ways. 399 00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:02,590 Speaker 3: So on the one hand, maybe a bunch of people 400 00:19:02,609 --> 00:19:05,250 Speaker 3: are going to want to migrate away from X or 401 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:08,530 Speaker 3: Instagram if it's just full of AI and they're not 402 00:19:08,550 --> 00:19:10,609 Speaker 3: really into that. Maybe we see more people going to 403 00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:12,810 Speaker 3: DMs and chat groups and discords. 404 00:19:12,830 --> 00:19:13,010 Speaker 5: Yeah. 405 00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:15,590 Speaker 3: Check out the All Thoughts Discord, by the way, if 406 00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:18,230 Speaker 3: you aren't already on it. But on the other hand, 407 00:19:18,290 --> 00:19:22,010 Speaker 3: maybe curation becomes even more important and maybe having an 408 00:19:22,109 --> 00:19:25,530 Speaker 3: algorithm that can really tell what you like and your 409 00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:29,410 Speaker 3: preference for AI slop or not becomes even more important. 410 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:30,620 Speaker 3: How are you thinking about that? 411 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,020 Speaker 2: I thought you were going to answer first, so I 412 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,820 Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to have time to think. I think– well, 413 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,020 Speaker 2: so I do think that the social media platforms are not– they're, like, 414 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,909 Speaker 2: on their back foot, right? Like, they're not– they're not 415 00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:50,510 Speaker 2: moving fast enough. I do think, in some ways, Google's 416 00:19:50,530 --> 00:19:52,859 Speaker 2: better positioned than Meta. Meta's in a really hard place 417 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 2: right now because I think they are very 2010s social media. 418 00:19:57,740 --> 00:20:00,190 Speaker 2: But I think, I don't know, it'll be... It'll depend 419 00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: on how people start to view entertainment and how much 420 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,180 Speaker 2: good content can be on that app. But it's kind 421 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: of a dinosaur. I don't see meta having the same 422 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: level of influence. I think it kind of peaked in 423 00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:11,909 Speaker 2: the 2010s. 424 00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 4: I mean, I think. 425 00:20:14,220 --> 00:20:18,820 Speaker 5: In the short term, what AI is doing to the 426 00:20:18,859 --> 00:20:21,140 Speaker 5: platforms is a little bit concerning, just in the sense 427 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:25,070 Speaker 5: that they can there's like sort of a scale and 428 00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:27,310 Speaker 5: quickness that AI accounts. I'll go to look at an 429 00:20:27,369 --> 00:20:30,030 Speaker 5: AI account that can post, you know, 50 times a day. 430 00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:34,430 Speaker 5: They're just like pulling the slot machine of Instagram and 431 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:34,850 Speaker 5: they're going to. 432 00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:35,350 Speaker 4: Get a hit. 433 00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:39,379 Speaker 5: And so I think that when I looked up recently, 434 00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 5: what were the top 20 most viewed reels ever? And 435 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:45,060 Speaker 5: I think two to three were AI generated, like pretty 436 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 5: recent ones. 437 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,380 Speaker 4: One of them was showing. 438 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 5: A set And a wave and how they're filming a 439 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,050 Speaker 5: wave for a movie and how it would impact houses. 440 00:20:59,650 --> 00:21:02,070 Speaker 5: And so it was using the framework of proof of 441 00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:05,310 Speaker 5: reality or BTS to essentially confuse people of how they 442 00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 5: film something. I think that's really bad to essentially monetize confusion. 443 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,580 Speaker 5: And I think that's a short-term benefit with really bad 444 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:17,580 Speaker 5: long-term results. 445 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,820 Speaker 2: That's why I think people are going to retreat towards 446 00:21:19,859 --> 00:21:24,270 Speaker 2: these more... these chat interfaces that are simpler and not 447 00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 2: so overwhelming and will be more kind of interactive and 448 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:29,380 Speaker 2: make them feel less lonely, even though I agree with you, 449 00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: it's not good. 450 00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:35,649 Speaker 1: Wait, I have a question. Speaking of meta, and I 451 00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:37,869 Speaker 1: may have asked you this before, but I can never remember. 452 00:21:38,650 --> 00:21:41,580 Speaker 1: who uses threads? Who is the- Oh my God, we 453 00:21:41,630 --> 00:21:44,740 Speaker 1: were just talking about this. No, I'm like aware sometimes, 454 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: like what is the deal with threads? 455 00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 3: I still get thread notifications every once in a while 456 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,110 Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, what is this thing? 457 00:21:50,140 --> 00:21:52,409 Speaker 1: And then I remember, why are they, like, do you 458 00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:53,650 Speaker 1: have a grand theory of threads? 459 00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:54,609 Speaker 5: My mom. 460 00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:56,570 Speaker 1: And why does that appeal to her? 461 00:21:57,150 --> 00:22:00,340 Speaker 5: And, I recently published a hot takes newsletter, and I 462 00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:03,500 Speaker 5: said that Threads is the most toxic social media platform. Oh, 463 00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:03,780 Speaker 5: is it? 464 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 2: It is by far. 465 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:07,660 Speaker 5: Say why. Say why. Well, the way that the algorithm works, 466 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,740 Speaker 5: it really prioritizes replies. And so you'll get sort of 467 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,209 Speaker 5: dropped off into somebody's really angry reply to something. And 468 00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:19,790 Speaker 5: that's what fuels it, essentially. And it turns into a 469 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:24,530 Speaker 5: very quick sort of groupthink thing. pile on in a 470 00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:26,530 Speaker 5: way that is surprising. 471 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:28,669 Speaker 1: Even worse than Twitter. 472 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 2: Twitter is like a wonderful fairyland compared to Threads. 473 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,420 Speaker 5: Are you serious? 474 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 3: It's insane. 475 00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 2: It also does the AI-generated, we were literally just talking 476 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,610 Speaker 2: about this, but Threads does the AI-generated news summaries, but 477 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:43,369 Speaker 2: it's just lying. It just makes things up. She was 478 00:22:43,390 --> 00:22:47,170 Speaker 2: showing me a crazy brand drama on there, but it's 479 00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:48,350 Speaker 2: a crazy place. 480 00:22:49,220 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 3: We only have a few minutes left, so I'm going 481 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:53,810 Speaker 3: to ask a question that we sort of alluded to 482 00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:55,310 Speaker 3: at the beginning. But I'm sure there are a lot 483 00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:57,230 Speaker 3: of people out in the audience who would like to 484 00:22:57,290 --> 00:23:00,450 Speaker 3: grow their social media accounts and their presence. But what 485 00:23:00,470 --> 00:23:03,570 Speaker 3: are your top tips in the age of AI for 486 00:23:03,609 --> 00:23:07,820 Speaker 3: getting to, as Joe says, an account that mysteriously has 487 00:23:07,820 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: 5 million followers? 488 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,699 Speaker 5: What are yours? I would say the accounts that I 489 00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:16,020 Speaker 5: see that are growing right now, all their content has 490 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 5: a real like through line of familiarity. It's like they're 491 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 5: creating their own TV show. There's a cook at a 492 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 5: restaurant who wears meta glasses and just records what he's cooking. 493 00:23:24,619 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 5: I believe he's grown to like 500,000 followers in maybe 494 00:23:29,580 --> 00:23:32,820 Speaker 5: two or three months, like Gil Holy Cooks. And so 495 00:23:32,859 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 5: that's all that they post is just like my show 496 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,949 Speaker 5: is on. They are making an episode every day. Yeah, 497 00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:42,270 Speaker 5: it seems to be a lot of like serialized content. 498 00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:44,790 Speaker 5: It's all becoming shows. You have to really think about entertaining. 499 00:23:44,869 --> 00:23:46,689 Speaker 5: I think the era of like sharing your life is 500 00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 5: like very declining. 501 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 2: Nobody cares. And I think like, so don't try to 502 00:23:50,420 --> 00:23:53,580 Speaker 2: be a lifestyle influencer in 2026. It's not, there's a 503 00:23:53,619 --> 00:23:55,020 Speaker 2: lot of anger towards those people. 504 00:23:55,830 --> 00:24:00,100 Speaker 1: I'm curious, though, speaking of the lifestyle influencers, are people 505 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: signing deals with like, yes, you can use my voice. 506 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: You could create a digital clone of me. You can 507 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,770 Speaker 1: have 10 versions of me. Like, is that happening? 508 00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:12,530 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote a piece for Vanity Fair recently about this. 509 00:24:12,670 --> 00:24:14,889 Speaker 2: And CIA has like really leaned into this. They have 510 00:24:14,910 --> 00:24:16,750 Speaker 2: what's called the CIA vault where like all of their 511 00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:19,210 Speaker 2: big stars, like, you know, they use AI to like. 512 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 2: basically cut down on people. Right now, it's mostly like 513 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 2: the influencer or the star celebrity will show up for 514 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: like one day, but then they'll use it to like 515 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: tweak the takes or, you know, tailor it for different 516 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,300 Speaker 2: audiences and different, and I do think that that is 517 00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 2: probably the way that it's going to go. 518 00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:35,340 Speaker 3: I guess Bloomberg owns the rights to our. 519 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:35,740 Speaker 5: Voices, right? 520 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: We don't really license them, but. 521 00:24:37,859 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: They're going to start generating just endless odd lots. 522 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:43,340 Speaker 3: They might do. 523 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: You know, one thing I like reading about, Rachel, in 524 00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:50,900 Speaker 1: your subtext, it's like, you talk about like the various tactics, right? 525 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: Like carousels or what are some of the other ones 526 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: that are, what's hot these days in terms of like 527 00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:57,939 Speaker 1: presentation approaches? 528 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,379 Speaker 5: Well, so Instagram shared with my audience a really helpful 529 00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:07,030 Speaker 5: chart that showed what each sort of, um, format is for. 530 00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:09,689 Speaker 5: And so carousels and reels are for reaching a new audience. 531 00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 5: Those will go out to non-followers. And what fuels the 532 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 5: algorithm right now is non-follower views. If it's something that 533 00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 5: only your audience understands, they're like, that's not entertaining enough. 534 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,940 Speaker 4: We're not going to put it on the main channel. 535 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,700 Speaker 5: And then single image posts just are for your audience. 536 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,460 Speaker 5: And then stories and DMs, they see as where community happens. 537 00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 5: And there was a conversation, I think at Bloomberg Screen Time, actually, 538 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,899 Speaker 5: where Adam Mosseri said that the social and social media 539 00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:39,670 Speaker 5: is not through sharing, you know, an image of your 540 00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:43,050 Speaker 5: family anymore necessarily. It is through DMing your friends something 541 00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:45,230 Speaker 5: that reminds you of them. And I thought that was 542 00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:49,190 Speaker 5: very unfortunate but clarifying in terms of what it means 543 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:51,750 Speaker 5: to be social on social media anymore. And it's really 544 00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 5: connecting through DMs and sending them a meme that reminds 545 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 5: them of them more than an important update in their life. Interesting. 546 00:25:58,510 --> 00:26:01,169 Speaker 1: Taylor and Rachel, thank you so much for joining us 547 00:26:01,270 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: at Odd Lots Live, closing out the show in such 548 00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:09,940 Speaker 1: a fascinating area. Really appreciate talking to both of. 549 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,420 Speaker 5: You. 550 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:22,330 Speaker 3: Thank you. That was our conversation with Taylor Lorenz and 551 00:26:22,410 --> 00:26:26,250 Speaker 3: Rachel Carton recorded live at our show in LA. I'm 552 00:26:26,290 --> 00:26:28,649 Speaker 3: Tracy Allaway. You can follow me at Tracy Allaway. 553 00:26:28,869 --> 00:26:31,670 Speaker 1: And I'm Joe Weisenthal. You can follow me at The Stalwart. 554 00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:35,270 Speaker 1: Follow our guests, Taylor Lorenz. She's at Taylor Lorenz and 555 00:26:35,310 --> 00:26:39,340 Speaker 1: Rachel Carton at Milk Carton. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez 556 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,780 Speaker 1: at Carmen Armit, Dashiell Bennett at Dashbot, Kale Brooks at 557 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: Kale Brooks, and Kevin Lozano at Kevin Lloyd Lozano. 558 00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: And for more OddLots content, you should check out our 559 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,780 Speaker 3: daily newsletter. You can find that at bloomberg.com forward slash OddLots. 560 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,770 Speaker 1: And you can chat about all these topics 24-7 in 561 00:26:53,869 --> 00:26:57,630 Speaker 1: our Discord, discord.gg slash OddLots. 562 00:26:58,109 --> 00:27:00,670 Speaker 3: And if you enjoyed this conversation, then please leave a 563 00:27:00,710 --> 00:27:03,449 Speaker 3: comment or like the video, or better yet, subscribe. 564 00:27:03,670 --> 00:27:04,869 Speaker 1: Thanks for watching and listening. 565 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:17,370 Speaker 5: Thank you.