Speaker 1: So you're always planning ahead, you're making plans, and you're
Speaker 1: always coming up with your contingencies. So a storm and
Speaker 1: we're in the Southern Ocean where there's no ships to
Speaker 1: tell you what's going on, but your senses of does
Speaker 1: it does the temperature change? Is the moisture changing? Are
Speaker 1: the wave altering? You know? What does it feel like
Speaker 1: in terms of the pressure in your ears? And so
Speaker 1: you're always on, You're always looking at we're going this way,
Speaker 1: We're absolutely going to lose the spinnaker. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: to go with the jib. So it's a combination of
Speaker 1: real life engineering, problem solving, crisis management, and again just
Speaker 1: freaking awesome sailing. That was Don Riley explaining what it
Speaker 1: takes to captain a racing sail boat and rough seas.
Speaker 1: Don has made history by leading crews in the biggest competitions,
Speaker 1: including the America's Cup and the grueling Whitbread Round the
Speaker 1: World Race. No Wonder Sports Illustrated named her one of
Speaker 1: the hundred greatest female athletes of the twentieth century. I'm
Speaker 1: a land Revere and this is Seneca's one hundred women
Speaker 1: to hear. We are bringing you one hundred of the
Speaker 1: world's most inspiring and history making women you need to hear.
Speaker 1: Don Riley has so many firsts to her name it's
Speaker 1: hard to keep track. In nineteen eighty nine, she joined
Speaker 1: the crew of Maiden, the first all women's boat to
Speaker 1: participate in the Whitbread Round the World Race. In the
Speaker 1: following years, she was the first woman ever to manage
Speaker 1: an entire America's Cup sailing team, and she was skipper
Speaker 1: of Heineken, the only all women's entry in the nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three ninety four Whitbread Race. Don has also served
Speaker 1: as president of the Women's Sports Foundation, which was created
Speaker 1: by Billy Jean King to advocate for women and girls
Speaker 1: in sports. Listen and learn why Don Riley is one
Speaker 1: of Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. I'm speaking today
Speaker 1: with sailing legend Don Riley. Don welcome. It's such a
Speaker 1: pleasure to have you with us. Thanks for having me well.
Speaker 1: You are one of the world's legendary sailors, a true pioneer,
Speaker 1: with several firsts to your name. Among them, you were
Speaker 1: the first woman to sail in both the America's Cup
Speaker 1: and the Woodbread Race. What draws you to the sport.
Speaker 1: What drew you in in the first place, and what
Speaker 1: makes it like nothing else. Well, I started sailing a
Speaker 1: very long time ago, so I'm not quite sure what
Speaker 1: it was that drew me to the sport, but I
Speaker 1: do know that now I love the combination of being
Speaker 1: outside of the physical side of it, where you're pushing
Speaker 1: yourself to the absolute limit, and then also, especially when
Speaker 1: you get higher in the sport, the mental aspect of
Speaker 1: having to put together you know, in America's Cup or
Speaker 1: a nonprofit foundation or a team. We just finished the
Speaker 1: Macina Race with twenty two people on an eighty six
Speaker 1: ft boat. The logistics, the problem solving, You're you're never off,
Speaker 1: you're always on, on on sounds truly challenging, just as
Speaker 1: it does when we think about what you all do
Speaker 1: as sailors. You were the skipper of an all women's
Speaker 1: team in in the whip Read Round the World race.
Speaker 1: That's nine months of sailing thirty three thousand miles across
Speaker 1: the world's oceans. What is that like for those of
Speaker 1: us who have no comparable experience, And you mentioned some
Speaker 1: of the tough challenges that sailors have. What was the
Speaker 1: toughest part of this that one was actually the management
Speaker 1: of the team. So I had been the watch captain,
Speaker 1: diver and engineer on Maiden. The race before that was
Speaker 1: an all women's team skippered by Tracy Edwards and the
Speaker 1: movie made in obviously, and so Heineken. I was called
Speaker 1: in at the end of the first leg when there
Speaker 1: had been a mutiny on board, so I was literally,
Speaker 1: if you put in business terms, there had been a
Speaker 1: hostile takeover and I was brought in as the new CEO.
Speaker 1: And to do that whilst you're also sailing through the
Speaker 1: Southern Ocean and thirty forty knot winds and snow and ice,
Speaker 1: that was a challenge. My goodness, that's quite a combination
Speaker 1: a mutiny and weather impacts that are rather severe. So
Speaker 1: how does one stay mentally strong? Because you you talked
Speaker 1: about the fact that you do really need to be disciplined.
Speaker 1: How do you deal with storms? How do you deal
Speaker 1: with high seas and other kinds of challenges. Well, this
Speaker 1: should come as no surprise to any human who's successful.
Speaker 1: Preparation is key, So you're always planning ahead, you're making plans,
Speaker 1: and you're always coming up with your contingencies. So a
Speaker 1: storm while even back then we didn't have as good
Speaker 1: weather information clearly, and we're in the southern Ocean where
Speaker 1: there's no ships to tell you what's going on. But
Speaker 1: you can still get satellite images of the fronts and
Speaker 1: an idea. But your senses of does the temperature change,
Speaker 1: is the moisture changing, are the wave altering? You know?
Speaker 1: What does it feel like in terms of the pressure
Speaker 1: in your ears? All of that, and so you're always
Speaker 1: on You're always looking at we're going this way this
Speaker 1: you know, we've got forty knots of wind is behind us.
Speaker 1: If it comes further forward, we're absolutely going to lose
Speaker 1: the spinnaker. We're gonna have to go with the jib.
Speaker 1: If that happens, I will do this. If that happens quickly,
Speaker 1: then it's going to be more of an emergency. We're gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, blow that tax so that we can get
Speaker 1: it down and unload the loads. So it's a combination
Speaker 1: of real life engineering, problem solving, crisis management, and again
Speaker 1: just freaking awesome sailing. Well, you had said that it
Speaker 1: really takes preparation, and I wonder to be mentally strong
Speaker 1: to do all the things you just described. Are there
Speaker 1: exercises you do. How do you prepare? We definitely work
Speaker 1: out so physically, we prepare mentally. I think, honestly, it's
Speaker 1: just convincing yourself to rip off the band aid and
Speaker 1: go for it. And the more you plan, the easier
Speaker 1: it is to take that first step. We were talking
Speaker 1: about that this morning at oak Cliffe Sailing, the nonprofit
Speaker 1: that I run right now. Most of the time when
Speaker 1: people are coming up with excuses or not starting a
Speaker 1: project is because they don't know how and they're afraid.
Speaker 1: So once you just say I can do this and
Speaker 1: you take the first step, you get a great sense
Speaker 1: of accomplishment after So you were describing some of what
Speaker 1: you went through with those nine months on the sea
Speaker 1: in the Big Bread Race. Did you have any close calls,
Speaker 1: either in that experience or in other experiences. The funny
Speaker 1: thing is is I have had very few injuries, and
Speaker 1: none of them have been on boats. It's always been
Speaker 1: something stupid, like I have a broken arm right now.
Speaker 1: I slipped on my porch because it was rainy and
Speaker 1: sandy and broke my arm. That is too funny. But
Speaker 1: on the boat, you prepare and you take all of
Speaker 1: the precautions, so I've flown f sixteens, I've jumped out
Speaker 1: of planes, I've bungee jumped, I've sailed, you know, around
Speaker 1: the world twice. I pushed myself to the limit and
Speaker 1: I slip and fall, such as life. Yes, now I
Speaker 1: know that in you were the first woman actively involved
Speaker 1: in the America's Cup, and that seems pretty light in
Speaker 1: the game for women to be starting sailing in such
Speaker 1: a prestigious event. Why did it take so long? Are
Speaker 1: there more obstacles for women that you can describe for us? Well,
Speaker 1: there's the same obstacles. Sailing is no different. It's actually
Speaker 1: more competitive than life because one the sailing at the
Speaker 1: lower levels, you're working on getting your skills up. You're
Speaker 1: overcoming the idea that you're not as strong physically fit,
Speaker 1: and then that translates that say, you know, she might
Speaker 1: be good, but she's not strong enough. The good news
Speaker 1: for me is that I'm uh, definitely stronger than the
Speaker 1: average human female, so that helps. But the real final
Speaker 1: frontier in terms of breaking glass ceilings is having somebody
Speaker 1: to pull you up. So when you're the first it
Speaker 1: takes a lot more effort. The second it's a little
Speaker 1: bit easier, but it's not until we get to the
Speaker 1: third that then you start being able to get equality.
Speaker 1: And you need women in the leadership to pull people up.
Speaker 1: So that's what took so long, is just somebody breaking
Speaker 1: through up into the leadership and you feel that you're
Speaker 1: the first when when that is occurring, is that a
Speaker 1: special pressure that's one on you at the time. You know,
Speaker 1: I was twenty five when I did my first round
Speaker 1: the World. I was thirty when I did my second
Speaker 1: America's Cup. So I was able to um, I was
Speaker 1: able to be young and naive and like this is cool,
Speaker 1: this is awesome. Yeah. And it wasn't until I got
Speaker 1: a little bit older and I started looking for my
Speaker 1: next gig that I realized, Okay, I need to do something.
Speaker 1: And that's really why I put together my own America's
Speaker 1: Cup in two thousand and It was a mixed team.
Speaker 1: We were trying to go for diversity. We didn't have
Speaker 1: enough of a pool to pull from. So instead of saying, oh, well,
Speaker 1: would just be co ed and not diverse, we made
Speaker 1: it a co ed team. And then we started true
Speaker 1: youth programs working in underserved communities to get sailing into
Speaker 1: diverse populations and we're starting to see the payoff for that,
Speaker 1: granted it, but we're starting to see much more diversity
Speaker 1: in the sport of sailing, and I'm personally very proud
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, that's that's wonderful because you don't see
Speaker 1: that in sailing so much. For sure, senecas one hundred
Speaker 1: women to hear. We'll be back after the short break.
Speaker 1: I know you've also helmed all women crews in both
Speaker 1: the America's Cup and with Bread. Are there advantages that
Speaker 1: women bring to sailing or is it you know what
Speaker 1: it appears to be. It doesn't matter if you're a
Speaker 1: man or a woman, and diversity is critically important. I
Speaker 1: think the question diversity is absolutely important, especially when you're
Speaker 1: doing the problem solving. So diversity of under background, racial diversity,
Speaker 1: just a different way of thinking makes your team stronger
Speaker 1: and that goes very clearly for a profitable business all
Speaker 1: the way down to a sailing event. The thing that
Speaker 1: women do bring is that they have a new perspective.
Speaker 1: They often are slightly unsure of themselves, which you would
Speaker 1: think would be a detriment, but it forces them to
Speaker 1: think through the problems rather than jump, and so they
Speaker 1: tend to be smarter and more you know, qualified, and
Speaker 1: better at positions like the pit which is very technical
Speaker 1: in terms of which sales are going up and down,
Speaker 1: and organizational or trimming where you have to look at
Speaker 1: it and think outside of the box as opposed to
Speaker 1: just jumping, jumping in and pulling, which the guys are
Speaker 1: really good at doing and they're just give me that
Speaker 1: poll done, and a female will often say, let me
Speaker 1: think this through. And that seems to be the case
Speaker 1: in other pursuits as well. So it's interesting that it
Speaker 1: holds for sailing. Well, let's go back a bit. Tell
Speaker 1: us about your growing up, your childhood, what led you
Speaker 1: to become this extraordinary professional and sailing. Take us back, Well,
Speaker 1: I started sailing with our family when I was thirteen.
Speaker 1: We took off for a year with my parents and
Speaker 1: my younger brother and sister, and we sailed the whole
Speaker 1: from the Great Lakes out to the East Coast, all
Speaker 1: the way up and down to Florida, the Bahamas, the
Speaker 1: Virgin's Granada and back. So that clearly expanded my horizons,
Speaker 1: um so, and I realized that sailing was a vehicle.
Speaker 1: Of course, being a female in the late seventies early
Speaker 1: eighties when there were no female sailors and very few
Speaker 1: professional sailors. I kind of had to figure it out
Speaker 1: as I went. But there was one thing that was
Speaker 1: critical that I think, especially this podcast audience would be
Speaker 1: interested in, is that when I was in fourth grade,
Speaker 1: a woman named Sheila Young came to my school, my
Speaker 1: fourth grade teacher, Mrs cratch, and she showed her as
Speaker 1: her medal from the Olympics in speed skating. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Sheila Young was part of friends with and part of
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Women's Sports Foundation with Billy Jene King,
Speaker 1: So that was super influential to me. And then you
Speaker 1: jumped forward to two thousand and two and I became
Speaker 1: the president of Women's Sports Foundation that Billy Jane King
Speaker 1: and Sheila Young started. So you never know how long
Speaker 1: it's going to take for one small you know what,
Speaker 1: was she there forty five minutes and for that to
Speaker 1: change the life and of a person and the career
Speaker 1: of quite a few people. Well, and what an impressionable
Speaker 1: moment that clearly was for you. Did anybody else in
Speaker 1: your family go into professional sailing. My sister is very
Speaker 1: good at it. She worked with me and the America
Speaker 1: True Foundation and Development and did some sailing on the boat.
Speaker 1: She did more sailing after the America's Cup and she
Speaker 1: runs the city of Oakland Wrekin Park in California. And
Speaker 1: my brother has what we call a normal job and
Speaker 1: a wife and three kids, and he still is a
Speaker 1: very good sailor. But neither one of them make their
Speaker 1: living off with it like I do well, and you're
Speaker 1: successfully doing it. You did mention the Women's Sports Foundation.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about why women and
Speaker 1: girls why it's important for them to have full access
Speaker 1: and opportunities in sports, because we know that it's crucial
Speaker 1: even if you never become that super athlete or that
Speaker 1: super professional sports do make a difference for women and girls.
Speaker 1: You know, talk about that a little bit. Please absolutely
Speaker 1: the their statistics and studies, and we've been saying the
Speaker 1: same stats over for the past thirties five years, you know,
Speaker 1: eighties seven nine depend on which study which year. Women
Speaker 1: in business and leadership directly attribute their success to their
Speaker 1: competitive sports when they were in high school or college.
Speaker 1: Women need to identify as competitive athletes and learn how
Speaker 1: to win and how to lose and keep going the
Speaker 1: you know, when I hear some parents say, well, isn't
Speaker 1: it nice they played soccer. I'm like, no, it's great.
Speaker 1: They played soccer and they were competitive. Um it even
Speaker 1: goes This is a funny little story. I was on
Speaker 1: the stage in Sweden with a woman who had skippered
Speaker 1: around the World race on s c A, and she
Speaker 1: had the microphone and was basically saying the typical well,
Speaker 1: I'm so lucky, it's so nice we were able to
Speaker 1: go around the world. And I literally grabbed the microphone
Speaker 1: out of her hand and said with sam meant to say,
Speaker 1: she's freaking good. And they kicked butt going around the world.
Speaker 1: And then I said, hey, I have a super yacht
Speaker 1: that I need a homesman or do you want to
Speaker 1: steer the boat in New Zealand. She said yep. And
Speaker 1: I said that's how the guys do it, exactly. So
Speaker 1: you have your own network now, working one person at
Speaker 1: a time, exactly. You know. I've heard data myself about
Speaker 1: women in the C suites as c e O s
Speaker 1: that the great great majority of them were engaged in
Speaker 1: competitive sports and years earlier. Absolutely, so that competition does
Speaker 1: pay off, even if you don't become a sports professional
Speaker 1: and I need to say this one more time. It
Speaker 1: is super critical to have representation in all leadership, whether
Speaker 1: it's a super yot that's owned by an increasing number
Speaker 1: of wealthy women, if they have men putting their crews together,
Speaker 1: they will not have women on the team. In a corporation,
Speaker 1: if you have three women on your board, you will
Speaker 1: be more successful. Bottom line. If you just have one
Speaker 1: just to check the box, it's not gonna work. You
Speaker 1: need two or three women, and then the whole company
Speaker 1: is more successful. And that's proven over and over and over.
Speaker 1: So we should get over it and just make it happen.
Speaker 1: And thank you for repeating it, because that diversity advantage
Speaker 1: needs to be stated over and over. Uh. And there's
Speaker 1: so much evidence today to back up what you said
Speaker 1: so compelling. Lee. We're i'll watching the Olympics now, and
Speaker 1: I know that you teach sailing. You've also coached at
Speaker 1: the Olympic level. Are any of your sailors in the
Speaker 1: Tokyo Games? Yet? Quite a few of them. We have
Speaker 1: five different classes that train here out of oak Cliff,
Speaker 1: with the forty nine FFS, which is forty nine or
Speaker 1: men fex women for seventy men and women. The fin
Speaker 1: which is single handed mail um and the Nacri seventeen
Speaker 1: which is mixed co ed Catamran. So all of those
Speaker 1: sailors in those classes have trained here and the United States,
Speaker 1: and sailing is in a rebuilding phase. We really kind
Speaker 1: of tried to shake things up literally twenty years ago
Speaker 1: and it didn't work. It's a long process because the
Speaker 1: sport of sailing is so complicated. It is not just
Speaker 1: going out and being fit and strong and reaching your
Speaker 1: peak when you're sixteen years old, because you have to
Speaker 1: add that mental You have to have that experience again
Speaker 1: that I talked about at the very beginning, The smell,
Speaker 1: the feeling, the waves, the experience, have seen it before
Speaker 1: will make you a better sailor and win. We're racist,
Speaker 1: so we're in a rebuild year and right now in
Speaker 1: those classes, half of them are in the top ten.
Speaker 1: But we're we're holding on and which countries are the
Speaker 1: best at sailing at this point it's um. It used
Speaker 1: to be America, and then it used to be Great Britain,
Speaker 1: and with the New Zealand in an Australian throw then
Speaker 1: now it's quite broad and open. So a lot of
Speaker 1: Scandinavian countries are good, Brazil is phenomenal, Australia, New Zealand,
Speaker 1: England are all still pretty strong. And then occasionally you
Speaker 1: have a you know, Japanese, Chinese, Thailand, um Guam. You
Speaker 1: don't know, y'all. Come. It sounds like everybody's getting into
Speaker 1: the game. Yep. So, as the professional sailor that you are,
Speaker 1: when you're watching um Olympic sailing events on TV, what
Speaker 1: do you watch for? I don't like watching because it
Speaker 1: makes me nervous. But I'm sailine. I'm totally fine. If
Speaker 1: I know somebody and I want them to win, I'm
Speaker 1: a basket case. It's always the case. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if it's sailing or some other competition. Well, we've all
Speaker 1: been through a tough year, and I dare say it
Speaker 1: hasn't ended in terms of COVID, it's been rough. What
Speaker 1: gives you hope at this time? Oh? I am so
Speaker 1: optimistic now. The first thing is for COVID. Because we
Speaker 1: were international in terms of our friends, we knew it
Speaker 1: was coming. We locked in February five twenty. We had
Speaker 1: zero cases of COVID. We ran full programming, we started
Speaker 1: a high school. We just came back from what could
Speaker 1: have been the impossible of racing the Chicago and the
Speaker 1: port here in Mackinaw with very small people on board
Speaker 1: the boat. Our average crew crew weight was one twenty
Speaker 1: and normally it's one ninety. So we did the first
Speaker 1: race for first to finish. The second race we just
Speaker 1: got back from that. We were third in class, third overall,
Speaker 1: first to finish, and we smashed and grabbed the course record,
Speaker 1: beating it by two hours. So I am in an upswing.
Speaker 1: But also I'm seeing that people as long as we
Speaker 1: get these vaccination rates up and people wear masks out
Speaker 1: of courtesy, I'm seeing people going back to work, going
Speaker 1: back to school. I'm getting more team building, more speaking.
Speaker 1: It's just I'm seeing it all happening. And yes, we
Speaker 1: have to be careful, but when the news is making
Speaker 1: up stories about back to school supplies are going to
Speaker 1: be more expensive, they're digging deep for the negative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad you mentioned again the importance of
Speaker 1: getting those vaccination rates up. Well, we're reach that point
Speaker 1: unfortunately where we're at the end of our conversation. But
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough on behalf of our listeners, John,
Speaker 1: this has been just tremendously illuminating for those of us
Speaker 1: who don't know sailing as much as we might. Thank
Speaker 1: you for making us understand what it's like, for sharing
Speaker 1: that experience, and also for telling us so much more
Speaker 1: about it's importance, particularly in developing women's leadership and the
Speaker 1: diversity advantage. So thank you, Don Riley, that sailing legend
Speaker 1: that you are. Thank you so much and come visit
Speaker 1: me at Oak Cliff Sailing and Oyster Bay anything that
Speaker 1: was great. There's so much we can learn about life
Speaker 1: and leadership from sailing icon Don Riley. Here are three
Speaker 1: things I took from that conversation. First, when women break
Speaker 1: a glass ceiling, whether it's in sports or business, they
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to help others come in behind them.
Speaker 1: As John says, the real final frontier is having somebody
Speaker 1: to pull you up, and that means having enough women
Speaker 1: in leadership to influence who gets picked or hired, because
Speaker 1: if there's just one woman on a team or a board,
Speaker 1: it's harder for change to happen. Second, as we've heard before,
Speaker 1: diversity is an advantage for any team, and sailing women
Speaker 1: bring something special to a crew. Don says the they
Speaker 1: are often slightly unsure of themselves, and that surprisingly is
Speaker 1: a good thing. Women's uncertainty causes them to think through
Speaker 1: problems rather than just jumping to hasty conclusions. Finally, it's
Speaker 1: important that girls be involved in sports. John reminds us
Speaker 1: that so many women leaders trace their success to having
Speaker 1: played competitive sports in high school or college. It teaches
Speaker 1: them how to win, how to lose, and how to
Speaker 1: keep going. Tune in next Thursday to hear about our
Speaker 1: next featured woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's
Speaker 1: one Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear
Speaker 1: is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner Pung. Have
Speaker 1: a Great Day.