WEBVTT - Tesla Faces NHTSA Probe Over Model 3 Emergency Door Handles 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.680 Bloomberg Tech is a lie from coast to coast, with 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.680 Caroline Hide in New York and Ed Lovelow in San Francisco. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.680 Welcome to Bloomberg Tech. I'm Katie Greifeld. 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:17.840 Coming up on today's show. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.000 Intel shares fall on a report that in Vidia halted 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:22.840 tests to use Intel's. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.919 Methods in chip making. Plus, the federal. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.720 Judge gives the ok for the Trump administration to move 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.800 ahead on a one hundred thousand dollars fee on new 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.240 H one B visa applications. What that means for Silicon 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.080 Valley hiring and Tesla faces more regulatory scrutiny with a 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.479 new federal probe over its emergency door release. All that 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.159 and more coming up. Let's take a look at these markets. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.520 It is Christmas Eve, there is no training volume to speak. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:48.720 Of, but you can see the S and P five. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.800 Hundred up slightly on this Wednesday, hier by about two 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.279 tenths of a percent. The NAZAQ one hundred underperforming. Will 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.480 tell you why in just a minute. The Philadelphia Semiconductor 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:05.320 and also green but really slight gains here. Volatility continuing 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.319 to drain out of these equity markets. The Vicks Trading 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.840 with a thirteen handle on this Christmas Eve. Meanwhile, let's 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.080 get to two specific names that are restraining what you're 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.920 seeing when it comes to the big tech complex, Intel 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.360 and Invidia. Intel down about one and a half percent, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.720 in Vidia down nearly one percent. Given how big Nvidia is, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.959 that is really acting as a weight on the overall benchmarks. Here, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.319 let's bring in Bloomberg Equities reporter Ryan Blastelica for the 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.200 latest on what's going on here. The headline that I'm 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.679 reading on the terminal, Intel falling on a report that 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.320 Invidia has halted a production test of some of its 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.360 advanced chip making capacity. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:45.680 Here, Ryan, what do we know so far? 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.040 Hey, good morning, Thanks for having me. So the background 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.600 for this is that for several years now, Intel has 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.760 really struggled against perception that it is falling behind in 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:00.320 chip manufacturing, especially through companies like PSMC overseas. Now, there 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.000 was a lot of hope this year following an investment 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.920 from Nvidia, following the government taking a stake that it 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.720 would be able to better finance this ambitious turnaround program 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.880 to sort of re establish its leadership position in chip manufacturing. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.000 So this report basically says and in Nvidia try to 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.240 have some of the latest chip processing out of Intel, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:21.240 and it's pausing that. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:22.280 So I don't think this will come. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.680 As a huge surprise, because there was seen as a 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.280 pretty significant gap between Intel and TSMC, you know, and 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.720 the other major chip manufacturers. However, this is probably just 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.000 enough of a cost for disappointment in Intel, which has 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.320 really been bid up quite dramatically this year on the 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.280 back of all this news that it's seen about the 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.440 investments and so forth. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.519 Right, absolutely, just to recap in Nvidia itself agreed to 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.920 invest five billion dollars into Intel in September. That followed 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.040 the US government announcing that it was also taking a 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.600 roughly ten per state ten percent stake in the company. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.880 So there's a lot of hopes, as you say, for 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.560 a potential turnaround story here for Intel. We know that 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.680 they have new CEO as well, but just give us 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.160 some context here, you know, how this specific year's performance 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.440 compares to the last several years of disappointment for Intel. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.640 Yeah, So one thing I would just say is that 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.280 when Nvidia announced the stake in Intel, they did make 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.200 a point of saying that there wasn't any sort of 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.720 agreement that it would be using the chip manufacturing here, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.200 but clearly they've been trying it out, they've been testing it, 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.040 and the fact that they are pausing here it's just 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.680 enough of the you know it sort of underlines how 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.600 Intel has really sort of fallen behind competitors in this 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.720 pretty significant area. Now, there is still a lot of 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.440 interest in building out domestic chip manufacturing. Ine building a 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.600 chip here, I believe it's in Ohio, TSMC has building 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.680 a chip that I think is in Arizona. There's a 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.600 lot of money surrounding this that Chipsas was involving this. 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.240 There's a lot of significance here, especially when it comes 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.000 to issues like national security here. So this is something 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.720 people are paying a lot of attention to. And certainly 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.760 if the news had been the opposite and Intel Nvidia 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.920 had come out and said that it is going to 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.000 be using Intel, I think that would be a pretty sick, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.680 magnificant game change for Intel as we go into twenty 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.760 twenty six. The idea that is really re establishing itself 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.200 in manufacturing, I think would cause a lot of people 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.680 to reassess the stock in its prospects. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.839 Absolutely and tell definitely a story to keep an eye 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.880 on in twenty twenty six. Ryan, before I let you go, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.080 you had a great story out on the terminal in 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.799 the past two days talking about how it's the boring 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:21.719 bets when it comes to tech that seems to be 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.960 working the best this year. Memory chips, hard disk drives 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.119 come to mind. What are some of the specific names 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.599 that really stood out in the tech space this year. 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.000 Well, Micron especially has been a really big gainer this year. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.919 It's memory chips, the high bandwidth memory that's a pretty 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.680 significant part of overall AI infrastructure. That stock is I 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.000 think roughly tripbolder. So this year it recently had results. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.159 Results were very strong, the stock moved up even more. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.640 And if you look beyond that, the companies that are 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.919 you know, typically don't get a ton of interest, companies 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.760 like sand Disk, Western Digital, Seagate Technology, makers of hard 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.360 disk drives, also a part of the AI infrastructure. This 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.120 is something that people were saying, was it fully appreciated? 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.159 Hard to make that case. Now some of these stocks 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.800 have doubled, tripled. They're some of the biggest gainers on 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:07.760 the S and P five hundred this year. And it 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.080 is you know, in I kind of bet ironically and 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:11.680 a part of the market that otherwise would be a 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.760 little bit too dull for most people to be excited about. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.600 Absolutely, Ryan really appreciate reporting this year. That is Bloomberg's 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.000 Ryan blast Elica. Meanwhile, let's get a broader look at 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.400 the tech markets and one investors are looking ahead to 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.120 in twenty twenty six with epec Oscar desh Kaya cis 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.240 quote senior market analyst. Great to have you with us. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.200 So I actually want to start where we left off 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.680 with Ryan. It's really interesting that you think about what 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.440 really worked in twenty twenty five. It was the so 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.360 called boring parts of the AI trade. A lot of 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.280 these you know, memory disc makers, memory chip makers that is, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.640 in the likes of Micron. I wonder you know whether 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.679 you expect that will be the momentum headed into twenty 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:50.320 twenty six. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.839 Well, it's pretty much explainable why these memory chips, boring 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.800 park yourself department of the market gain more than the 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.200 other exciting parts. One of the reasons for that is 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.480 that because the AI chip demand was so strong that 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.880 many manufacturers actually assass more capacity in producing these chips 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.880 in demand, and they reduce their capacity for producing other 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.159 and more boring podcasts off the market. That's one of 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.280 the reasons why what explains actually the rally that we've 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.560 seen in Standings and Seagate and Western Digital and likes 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.919 into twenty twenty six. We think that not only that 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.120 the boring, the most boring and undervalued pockets of the 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.599 market will be an investors' radar, but we will also 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.359 expect to see actually this technology and AI rarely broaden 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.960 towards the non technology podcasts off the market because the 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:44.520 AI productivity, AI cost efficiencies will also benefit to any 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:49.440 other sector out there, including banks, healthcare industries. And I 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.400 think that this is going to be the big story 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:52.640 of twenty twenty six. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.640 Yeah, absolutely, and we don't have much longer to it. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.359 I want to talk a little bit about, you know 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.479 what didn't necessarily work when it comes to the overall 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.159 AI trade in twenty twenty five, and it's something to 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.760 talk about that as a monolith. But while memory chip 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.800 makers seem to have a great year, you take a 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.400 look at some of these software names. Adobe comes to mind, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.240 for example, and it feels like some of these companies 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.680 just can't get their footing under them. Service now Salesforce 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.680 Force also examples there. I wonder, you know what you 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.320 make of what's going on in that sector. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.360 Well, these companies have come under the pressure of AI. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.280 You would expect that making. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.280 AI tools available to investors would boost their revenue, but 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.440 it actually had the exact opposite impact effect on these companies. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.520 They have not been able to monetize and sell these 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.080 AI boosted models to investors as much as they wanted. 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.480 And actually the fact that other models, other AI models 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.239 came to the market to challenge these companies, have also 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.400 been a big problem for these companies. We think that 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.960 in terms of AI applications, the competition is going to 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.080 be quite rough in twenty twenty six because there are 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.200 a lot of AIMI some of them are going to 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:02.760 be where some of them are going. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:03.960 To be losers. 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.640 But it's exactly the same story for the big AI 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.800 applications and the likes of AI A Dope for example, 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.960 or Shutter Circle. These companies that just integrated AI applications 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.800 on their products offering will have to face that competition. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:21.880 I think that that's going to be also waiting on 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:22.520 the margins. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.440 Yeah, it's a good reminder of dure that there are 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.840 companies that are doing the disrupting and then there's companies 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.120 that the market thinks are being disrupted right now. 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:32.280 But I also want to talk. 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.160 A little bit about you know, what we're seeing when 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.120 it comes to Capex. That has remained one of the 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.480 dominant stories when it comes to you know, every three 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.560 months we get those earnings report, and we've seen it 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.000 start to really get expressed in certain companies. Oracle comes 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.160 to mind, both their equity and their debt. This pressure 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.920 to see some sort of ROI when it comes to spending. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.640 I wonder if you see that pressure broadening out next 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.840 year EPEC of course. 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.720 I mean since the last three months, since the last 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.920 earning season, what we have seen is that the headline 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.600 shiny headline figures were no longer impressive for investors. They 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.880 wanted to dig deeper into these reports. One, how are 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.960 the revenues are being accounted? And two what's happening with 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.520 the debt? Is the debt too high? Or is the 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.160 debt being uploaded? Was also one of the questions that 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.760 investors have been asking and have been worried about. So 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:30.080 what investors want today is to see slowing investment until 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.440 we see return on investment. The problem here with the 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.320 technology is that if there isn't overspending. The risk is 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.240 that this technology gets outdated by the time revenues start 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.360 coming in. So we really think that spending is going 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.840 to be one of the major issues and major major 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.960 talking points into twenty twenty six. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.559 And one way to go around this. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.839 Risk is to choose companies that are able to turn 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:58.040 this over spending into an immediate revenue opportunity, like the 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.400 ones that do have data center. Is that the ones 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.280 that are actually able to rent their chips out And 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.360 in this context what we see is Microsoft, Amazon, Aret 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.880 and Google are the three companies that could help investors 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.160 reduce this risk of overspending in AI and EPEC. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:15.920 I've less than a minute with you, but before I 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.840 let you go, I would love to hear heading into 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.400 twenty twenty six, what is your highest conviction. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.840 Well, the highest conviction right now is rotation again from 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.360 technology to non technology pockets off the market. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:29.520 I think it is important to note. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:34.240 That the macracinic backdrop remains positive for technology stocks as well, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.120 so we think that the reley could continue, but it 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:42.200 might decelerate next year, and again the AI enthusiasm will 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.680 probably move toward the non technology pockets off the market. 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:50.239 Toward toward the sectors that actually do also use technology 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.280 that could be boosted by a IT tools. 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.960 Absolutely, that rotation, especially from growth to value, has been 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.400 fascinating to watch over the past couple of weeks. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.360 Ipec Osker Deshkai. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:01.960 Of Swiss quote great to get some time with you. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.880 Now coming up on B tech, a judge has ruled 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.240 in President Trump's favor upholding one hundred thousand dollars H 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.640 one B visa fees. Some of the most vulnerable companies are. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.200 In the tech sector, but the legal fight is an over. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:15.120 More on that. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:32.400 Next, this is Bloomberg Well, a federal judge says that the. 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.559 Trump administration can move ahead with a one hundred thousand 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.079 dollar fee on new H one V visa applications. Now 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.560 that is adding pressure on US tech companies that rely 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:45.800 on hiring foreign skilled workers. Eric laws and Larson, he 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.480 covers legal affairs and politics for Bloomberg News, please to 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.480 say he joins me now on set. So Eric, give 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.600 us some context here. You know, we tend to talk 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.559 about tech companies when it comes to these visa fees, 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.960 but just how exposed is the industry to this potential 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.400 one hundred thousand dollars. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.440 Fee minor sending from these lawsuits that have been filed 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.480 and from the data we've seen is that they're pretty exposed. Notably, 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.560 these companies did not file lawsuits challenging the visa. It 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.160 was filed by other groups. The ruling we just got 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.440 was from the Chamber of Commerce. So maybe they're waiting 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.880 to see where this goes. But certainly the Trump administration 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.080 and other government officials say that these companies can afford them, 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.200 even though they do use them quite a bit and 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.400 they are pretty exposed. The government simply argues there are 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.640 plenty of American workers who they could be paying to 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.280 do the same job, just paying them more. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.600 Yeah, I mean, you think about some of these giant 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.400 tech companies with deep pockets. Talk to us about the 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.360 public sector though when it comes to healthcare and education, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.440 because again we talk about tech all the time, but 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.960 these sectors also rely on H one B visas exactly. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.000 And there is another lawsuit that was filed by nineteen 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.280 Democratic attorneys general. Most of the Democratic led states are 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.560 part of this lawsuit, led by California, which has the 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.440 most of these visas are mostly in California, and these 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.560 states argue that they're suing on behalf of the public 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.560 sector because of healthcare. They say that they have to 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.199 look out for the healthcare industry, the residents and their states. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.040 They say that the quality of healthcare will simply suffer 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.560 because there is a shortage of these skilled healthcare workers 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.680 who use these visas and won't necessarily be able to 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.240 afford one hundred thousand dollars fee from these hospitals. You know, 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.800 maybe the companies can afford that, but hospitals not so much. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.319 So there's not really a carve out for them, and 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.120 the hospitals could suffer according to these states that sued 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.640 earlier this month, and there's a hearing in that case 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.199 in February, so remains to be seen how a judgabile 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:45.480 rule on that aspect. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:47.199 Well, that's the rub, right. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.440 You think about Amazon, Microsoft, Meta Apple, for example, if 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:55.000 they're playing millions of dollars potentially for specific AI talent, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.200 a one hundred thousand dollar fee probably doesn't seem like 0:13:58.240 --> 0:13:58.880 that much then. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.080 But to your point, you know, if it's. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.720 Hospital having to pony up that fee, it's a much 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.719 different conversation. Walk us through how you might expect the 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.800 legal fight to take shape next, because it seems like 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.760 there's a lot of different moving parts here. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.960 Sure, So the ruling that we just got was from 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.600 the lawsuit filed by the Chamber of Commerce in Federal 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.720 Court in Washington. That case is essentially over unless there's 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.440 an appeal. It was a summary judgment. The judge, who 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.040 was an Obama appointee, by the way, just ruled flat 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.520 out that the government was correct. The President had brought 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.600 authority to issue this under the powers given to him 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.520 by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act. But these 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:43.920 lawsuit filed by the Democratic led States, that is, like 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.720 I said, there will be a hearing on their motion 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.200 for an injunction against the visa in February. There isn't 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.560 a hearing set on the third lawsuit, which is filed 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.920 by unions, So this could take months to play out, 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.000 and as with so many of the other legal challenges 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.200 involving the president's policies and executive orders, it could end 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.280 up at the Supreme Court, and that could be quite 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:08.200 some time. The big question for employers and potential visa 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.240 holders is whether or not this program, this fee will 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.440 stay in place during the entire legal challenge. Right now, 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.960 it is, but these other lawsuits could result in different outcomes. 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.400 All right, Eric, really appreciate your reporting. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.120 Great to see someone else in the office on Christmas 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:23.720 Eve as well. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.440 That is Bloomberg's Eric Larson. 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.800 Meanwhile, another story that's tying together tech and politics is 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.160 that the Trump administration has imposed visa sanctions on former 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:36.520 European Union Commissioner Theory Breton, along with four other activists 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.120 who have pushed for regulations to online content moderation. Now 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.840 Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a post on 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.640 x Quote, for far too long, ideologues in Europe have 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.680 led organized efforts to coerce American platforms to punish American 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.000 viewpoints they oppose. We stand ready and willing to expand. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.320 This lifts this list if others do not reverse course 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.080 for more. Let's go now to bloom It's Laura Davison 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.960 live in Washington. So Laura, first, give us the reaction 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.320 that you're seeing and hearing. Was this move necessarily a surprise? 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.000 This move was a surprise and really came as a 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.160 shock to both the people who were the subject of 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.600 these visa sanctions as well as to other European officials, 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.280 both at the EU level, and individual countries. There's been 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.960 a really a strong and forceful pushback saying that this 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.840 is a move that amounts to censorship and is very inappropriate. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.560 On the US side, this is, you know, sort of 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.000 just a one prong and what has really become a 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.400 multifaceted cold war between the US and the EU, particularly 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.480 as it relates to tech companies and who has the 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:40.960 power to regulate and tax them. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.600 Yeah, and you know, we talk about, you know, this 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.080 censorship potentially of American viewpoints, what specific platforms, you know, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.120 was the Trump administration holding up as an example where 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.240 censorship actually did take place. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.960 Yeah, So there's a couple different here. Largely the big 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.240 social media platform so Facebook, Instagram, and in particular Elon 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.159 Musk's platform has been the subject of a rather large 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.840 fine earlier this year for not allowing these content moderation 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.560 to feed out hate speech from the platform. So, you know, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.080 X had to pay this fine. This has kind of 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.960 become this ongoing tit for tat war of you you know, 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.439 and you could almost see these visa sanctions coming from 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.640 the US as a response to that fine earlier this year. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.520 All Right, Laura really appreciate the update that is Bloomberg's 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:35.760 Laura Davison joining us from Washington, well as Warner Brothers 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.720 Discovery in Paramount Way. Their next moves media deal making 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.000 is back in focus. Joining us now is Stephen wolf Perira. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.160 He is CEO and founder of Alpha, an independent AI 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.480 governance intelligence firm for board directors and C suite executives. 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.679 Great to have you with us, Stevens. So let's talk 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.959 about Warner Brothers. You had Larry Ellison coming out with 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.000 his personal guarantee of forty billion dollars for the Paramounts 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.000 guidance hostile bid. That is, do you think that that 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.959 goes far enough to address some of the Warner Brothers 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.240 board's concerns about financing. 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.960 So it's great to be here, Happy holidays. But this 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.440 is very going to be a gift for the Ellsons 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.800 because if you think about what they are doing, they 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.040 are truly amassing one of the biggest and most important 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.320 collection of media assets in record time. And you know 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.160 whether the thirty dollars a share is going to be enough. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:27.600 I think they're going to have to sweeten the deal. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.680 But I think you need to look at this from 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.119 a larger advantage point because if you really look at 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.959 the assets that they're starting to consolidate. It really is 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.520 concerning on the one hand, exciting on the other. But 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.600 when you think about Paramount combined with potentially TikTok obviously 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.320 Warner Brothers Discovery, you just look at all the different 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.439 pieces of this puzzle. We're really seeing the reshaping of 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.719 the American media landscape right before our eyes. 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.600 Let's talk through some of the concerns here. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.640 As you said, it's exciting, but there's also concerns. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.680 In highest order. What would you say tops the list? 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.080 I mean, one is this really trying to understand what 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.480 really is going to be the governance and implications of 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.399 this when you think about the amount of data that 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.080 they are now going to have to be able to 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.040 train all their AI. Again, this is not just a 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:19.000 media company. Obviously, Larry Ellison with Oracle understanding the TikTok angle, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.120 this is really connected to the dots and all these 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.480 AI companies are desperate for more data to train their models. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.800 And so when you really look at this, this is 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:31.040 a truly incredible opportunity to consolidate data all under this 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.160 massive umbrella, which is really going to be Skydance, Paramount 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:34.680 and Oracle. 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.800 Interesting, So you're saying that Oracle, you know, if we 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.359 actually see Paramount Skuiddance be able to win the Warner 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:44.520 Brothers Discovery bidding war, that Oracle might then potentially use 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.200 their content library for training for their models. 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.639 I mean, again, you have one hundred percent control over Paramount, 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.760 you know, what's to say, what is the control going 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:54.920 to look like? You know, for one of Brother's Discovery. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.080 Once it's under that umbrella, You're just going to have 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.560 a lot of ability to kind of blur the lines 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:01.920 and us really see who is going to be able 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.479 to have some type of guardrails governance guidelines around all 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.359 of this, And I think that that's something that shareholders 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.320 need to look into. Obviously, you want to have your 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.679 furniturey responsibilities as a shareholder, but certainly the board is 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:15.760 going to have to make some really tough decisions. I 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.200 think there is a really interesting reason why the board 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.359 has actually rejected the Ellisons repeatedly until they had to 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:23.760 go public with this hostile takeover. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.520