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Speaker 2: Speaking of sanctions, guess who's just who just scored some

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Speaker 2: more sanctioned relief. None other than the former al Qaeda

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Speaker 2: leader now known as Ahmed al Shara, the current president

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Speaker 2: of Syria formerly known as his name Dagher al Jalani.

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Speaker 2: So he made a historic visit to the White House yesterday,

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Speaker 2: first time ever by a Syrian head of state.

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Speaker 4: So extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: This guy, just I think, less than a year ago,

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Speaker 2: was a designated terrorist with a ten million dollar bounty

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Speaker 2: on his head. Now he's hanging out in the White

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Speaker 2: House warmly greeted by Trump playing basketball with former commanders

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Speaker 2: who are previously out trying to kill him. Let's take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Trump here d one getting asked about

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Speaker 2: his past and how he squares that with their now

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Speaker 2: friendly relationship.

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Speaker 5: You can expect some announcements in Syria. We want to

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Speaker 5: see Siria become a country that's very successful, and I

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Speaker 5: think this leader can do it. I really do. I

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Speaker 5: think this leader can do it. And people said he's

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Speaker 5: had a rough past. We've all had rough pasts, but

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Speaker 5: he has had a rough past, and I think, frankly,

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Speaker 5: if you didn't have a rough pass, you wouldn't have

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Speaker 5: a chance. He gets along very well with Turkey, with

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Speaker 5: President Arejuan, who's a great leader. Raa Wan's a great leader.

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Speaker 2: So he says, people say he's had a rough past.

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Speaker 2: We've all had rough past, sager, and he goes on

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Speaker 2: to say that that quote unquote rough past of being

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Speaker 2: an al Qaeda terrorist, that that actually may help him

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Speaker 2: in his leadership. He gets along with Turkey. He says,

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Speaker 2: you may need that kind of a rough past to

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Speaker 2: be in this position.

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Speaker 4: I mean, just absolutely insane. And I have to.

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Speaker 2: Point out that this comes at a time when a

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Speaker 2: lot of people on the right, including Trump, were out

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Speaker 2: there shrieking about zoranmm donnie's a jihadist, denis inismus and

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Speaker 2: he's going to implement your real.

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Speaker 4: Law in New York City.

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Speaker 2: And you have a literal former terrorist being welcomed into

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Speaker 2: the White House and gaining sanctions relief and scoring new

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Speaker 2: military partnerships, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. I hadn't put that together, but

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just one of the most depressing things

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Speaker 3: for anybody who lived through.

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Speaker 1: The War on Terror.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine, you know, yesterday was the

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Speaker 3: birthday of the United States Marine Corps. Imagine being one

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Speaker 3: of those Marines who served in you know what was it,

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Speaker 3: all Abar Province in Iraq, and you're fighting al Qaeda,

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Speaker 3: literally guys like Jilani and his entire crew who blew

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Speaker 3: up your friends and who you had to try, you know,

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Speaker 3: and to be back at Bay and you're desperately trying

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Speaker 3: to stop the rise of these jihadas. And then to

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Speaker 3: see him come to the United States of America and

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Speaker 3: to put a suit on and everybody is just laying

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Speaker 3: out the red carpet for him, and let's all remember why,

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Speaker 3: it's because he's pro Israel. That's the only reason. Okay,

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Speaker 3: that's the whole ballgame is because he was pro Israel. Also,

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Speaker 3: it really does validate a lot of the whole al

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Speaker 3: Qaeda is CIA stuff from the twenty tens, which I'll

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Speaker 3: be honest, you know, I dismissed, But at this point,

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Speaker 3: I mean, how else can you explain David Petraeus being

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Speaker 3: like I worry about how you sleep at night? The

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Speaker 3: former CIA director when he did that interview with al

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Speaker 3: Shara and now put D two up here, for example,

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Speaker 3: on the screen like these you know meetings that are

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Speaker 3: now happening with our you know that's Brian mass who

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Speaker 3: literally got blown up by the Taliban meeting as the

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Speaker 3: head of the US Foreign Affairs Committee with al Shara

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Speaker 3: like here in Washington, like seeking sanctions relieve and by

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Speaker 3: the way, they.

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Speaker 1: Actually got it.

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Speaker 2: I think he should have worn his IDF uniform for

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Speaker 2: this show off personally, that would have been more appropriate.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely true, because again, like that's the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: And look, I'm not above making peace with enemies. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I think it's not really if we don't do it enough,

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Speaker 3: you know, in terms of diplomacy.

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Speaker 1: So this isn't really about him per se.

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Speaker 3: It's more about how bullshit the entire war on Terror was,

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Speaker 3: and like that is where they hate us for our freedoms.

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Speaker 3: We have to eradicate them. And this time around, Oh

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Speaker 3: now it's all real politique. It's like Asad bad. Why

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Speaker 3: Asad hated al Katta? Assad hated Isis But he was bad,

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Speaker 3: and he was scary and pro Russia. This guy is

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Speaker 3: pro Israel, and so you're like, oh, okay, well, as

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Speaker 3: long as as we can.

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Speaker 1: Do yes, we can do business.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's the part where I'm like, this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: That's really the important part here is you know, I

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Speaker 2: support sanctions relief on Siri. I think it's you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it sucks we had sanctions on them, to

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Speaker 2: be I think our whole policy towards Syria has been abysmal.

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Speaker 2: It is a misery of the Syrian people, has destabilized

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Speaker 2: politics across Europe, created this mass migration crisis.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's been horrible. I've been too serious.

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Speaker 2: There is a beautiful country with extraordinary culture and extraordinary history,

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Speaker 2: and so it's heartbreaking to watch what has been done

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Speaker 2: to that country with our assistance and our backing. And

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely right that like the most you know, sort

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Speaker 2: of conspiracy brained takes about our involvement in their civil

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Speaker 2: war and why we were involved in who we were backing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to deny. And you know, some of that,

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Speaker 2: like the veracity of some of what was being suggested there,

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Speaker 2: It certainly looks like they were more right than they

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Speaker 2: were wrong. But the real point here is that next time,

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Speaker 2: and it's already happening. You know, Maduro, Oh, he's a

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Speaker 2: drug trafficker and he's a terrorist. He's harboring Hamas and

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Speaker 2: he's Hamas and he's Iron and he's Husble and whatever.

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Speaker 5: Like.

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Speaker 2: They just make this shit up. The terrorist designation is

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Speaker 2: the fakest thing on planet Earth. This man who just

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Speaker 2: got sanctions relief and we're setting up some military situation

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Speaker 2: in Syria with him, and we're doing all these deals

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Speaker 2: and you know, we're besties with him now. A year

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Speaker 2: ago was a designated terrorist with a ten million dollar

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Speaker 2: bounty on his head. Terrorist just means somebody who we

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Speaker 2: don't like at this moment. We do deals with all

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Speaker 2: sorts of bad guys around the world. That's look at

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Speaker 2: our friendship with Saudi. Look at our bestie Natanyahu, who

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Speaker 2: is the biggest terrorist on the entire fucking planet, no

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Speaker 2: doubt about it. And that is our bestie who we

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Speaker 2: back up and support an arm no matter what. So

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Speaker 2: do not, like, don't be influenced by the things that

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Speaker 2: they say. Think for yourself, because they will turn on

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Speaker 2: a dime and go from oh, you know, he's our

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Speaker 2: biggest enemy to oh he had a rough pass. Who

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Speaker 2: among us has it in a second. That's the thing

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Speaker 2: to really understand is just how fake and invented all

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Speaker 2: of this is. And not to say I mean Jolani

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Speaker 2: genuinely was like trying to murder Americans. I know, like, actually, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to whitewash his past. I'm just saying the

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Speaker 2: who we label as a terrorist versus who can be

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Speaker 2: our best bud, there is no distinction in their like

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Speaker 2: level of evil and the atrocities that they're willing to look.

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Speaker 3: I have no issues with making deals with enemies, with

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Speaker 3: moving on and admitting that wars were failure. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I think we should do a lot more of them.

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Speaker 3: But I also think that there needs to be some

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Speaker 3: come to Jesus honesty and not just pretending that it's all,

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Speaker 3: you know, basically a farce. Let's put this, you know,

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Speaker 3: video for example, on the screen, like, can we play

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Speaker 3: D three, Like this is literally the al Qaeda leader

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Speaker 3: playing basketball with top American generals who ten years ago,

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Speaker 3: these guys were literally trying to kill each other. Now again, fine,

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Speaker 3: if we all just say, oh, we once fought on

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Speaker 3: the battlefield, we resolved our differences, and it's to the

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Speaker 3: benefit of our country.

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Speaker 1: I think you can make a case for that. I

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Speaker 1: don't agree with that.

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Speaker 3: I don't think, you know, living under his leadership or

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Speaker 3: whatever for Siria is supposedly so much better for America.

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Speaker 3: I think it's great for Israel, right, who gets to

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Speaker 3: extend its territory out a little bit more and gets

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Speaker 3: a nice little you know, colony and Damascus if it

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Speaker 3: if we want to be honest about that, like I.

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Speaker 4: Guess right, but this is part of the greater Israel project.

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Speaker 1: Literally, yeah, I mean why runs exactly? That's that's the

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Speaker 1: part which is driving me insane.

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Speaker 3: Put the next one up there, D four, just to

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Speaker 3: show you again like this was literally like a year

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Speaker 3: ago This was his ten million dollar bounty reward for

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Speaker 3: justice as a member of al Qaeda in Syria and

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Speaker 3: who long, long history of fighting US service members. All

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Speaker 3: of this just what it puts together for me is

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Speaker 3: how fake. So much of it was is oh, we

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Speaker 3: have to you know, to the bitter end, we have

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Speaker 3: to fund all of this. We have to make sure

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Speaker 3: you know that the moderate rebels which were al Qaeda,

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Speaker 3: which will take over.

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Speaker 1: That's literally what they said, you know, and I believed it.

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Speaker 3: I'm serious, I really did. I was like, look, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's a bad guy. I really believe I said, I

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Speaker 3: saw it.

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Speaker 1: He's a bad guy.

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Speaker 3: Dropped barrel bombs on children, you know, so awful. We

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Speaker 3: should do something.

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Speaker 1: But look how it ended up.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like it becomes just like some pro

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Speaker 3: Israel colony in Syria.

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Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah, and there's tons of like retribution killings

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Speaker 2: of that are going on right now against the Alohites,

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Speaker 2: against Christians, against the Drews that are happening right now.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: What Aujilani says is like, oh, well, you know that

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Speaker 2: I don't really have control over this is his outlet,

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Speaker 2: his outfit. Hgs like they're the ones who were committing

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Speaker 2: these atrocities and retribution killings against minorities within Syria, which

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Speaker 2: has a diverse population with a lot of different backgrounds.

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Speaker 2: He claims that he just can't control them. I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are very skeptical of that. But

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Speaker 2: I mean that's another important like part of the story

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Speaker 2: here of what's happening in modern day Syria right now

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Speaker 2: under this guy's leadership.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that what they America doesn't appreciate is

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Speaker 3: just I don't know, I really hope if you're an

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Speaker 3: American service member, if you served in Iraq, you know,

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Speaker 3: if you served in the counter isis mission.

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Speaker 4: Just you know, can you imagine?

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Speaker 3: Like I genuinely I feel so much for you because

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Speaker 3: think about how much propaganda you mainline into you and

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Speaker 3: all those missions that you went out, you know, beyond

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Speaker 3: the wire and people got blown up, and then just

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Speaker 3: to watch this type of stuff happen in front of

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Speaker 3: your own eyes, like it's honestly sickening. Like put D

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Speaker 3: eight up here on the screen, like I guess this

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Speaker 3: was what it's all about. The US military will now

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Speaker 3: establish a presence at the Damascus Air Base, you know,

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Speaker 3: after he's you know, all friendly with Israel, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter the minorities and the freedoms and all

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Speaker 3: that stuff that they sold to you and back in

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Speaker 3: the mid two thousands, it was all totally fake. So yeah, again,

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Speaker 3: should we make deals with our enemies and our former enemy.

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Speaker 3: Should we admit our mistakes? Yes, absolutely, but we haven't

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Speaker 3: really done any of that.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: The Seian people are way worse off. Fourteen years brutal

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Speaker 3: civil war. We funded it, so many of our allies

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Speaker 3: funded it. We never really kind of enjoyed it as

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Speaker 3: a little plaything. The Israelis liked it too, hes Bola

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Speaker 3: and all of.

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Speaker 1: That was happening.

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Speaker 3: They could occasionally strike within there whenever they wanted. We

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Speaker 3: used it as some proxy with Iran. The Iranians used

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Speaker 3: it as their playground. It became an international kind of

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Speaker 3: a chew toy for everybody to basically play with. We

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Speaker 3: destroyed the country along with many others, not just us,

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Speaker 3: and in the interim, you know, millions of people fled

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Speaker 3: to cause a demographic crisis in Europe, basically ignited right

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Speaker 3: wing politics across the continent. We would have been better

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Speaker 3: off from day one doing nothing, And I think that's

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Speaker 3: what that's what's so infuriating.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people who died in Syria.

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Speaker 3: Americans died in Syria, a lot of Americans died fighting

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Speaker 3: al Qaeda in Iraq. You know, that was the primary mission,

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Speaker 3: is why we had to do the surge. And then

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Speaker 3: to see the same architect of that, you know, Fluffin

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Speaker 3: Jolani on stage in New York City, and then same

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Speaker 3: with the Scentcom commanders. Guys were literally on the other

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Speaker 3: side of this for a reason again of nothing is

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Speaker 3: really it's really depressing. You know, if you lived and

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Speaker 3: followed foreign policy discussions, politics like it would be unthinkable.

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Speaker 3: And then finally, it's just about the relative moralism of

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Speaker 3: Asad bad al Qaeda.

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Speaker 1: Good right, It's like, no, there's no such thing.

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Speaker 3: We deal with countries on the basis of what's good

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Speaker 3: for us because this moraliss stuff, it's all bullshit, you know,

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Speaker 3: it really is. Just to see it all in front

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Speaker 3: of your eyes like this, it's hard. It really is

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Speaker 3: a tough pill to swallow. Okay, let's get to AI,

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Speaker 3: shall we.

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Speaker 2: So some new indications of potential AI bubble. Interesting posts

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Speaker 2: coming here from Michael Burry of Big Short fame. Let's

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Speaker 2: go and put this up on the screen and I'll

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Speaker 2: do my best to decode this in straightforward English. So

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Speaker 2: he says, understating depreciation by extending useful life of assets

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Speaker 2: artificially boost earnings one of the more common frauds of

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Speaker 2: the modern era. Massively ramping cap X through purchase of

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Speaker 2: Nvidia ship servers only two to three year product cycle

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Speaker 2: should not result in the extension of useful lives of

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Speaker 2: compute equipment. Yes, yeah, this is exactly what all the

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Speaker 2: hyper scalers have done. By my estimates, that will understate

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Speaker 2: depreciation by one hundred and seventy six billion dollars by

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty eighth, will overstate earnings by twenty six point

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Speaker 2: nine percent, Meta by twenty percent, etc. But it gets worse.

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Speaker 2: More detail coming in November twenty fifth, so stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: We certainly will, and he has it. They're a chart

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Speaker 2: showing the way that the useful life depreciation in years

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Speaker 2: has increased at companies like Meta, Google, Oracle, Microsoft, and Amazon,

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Speaker 2: going from roughly three years to now five or six years.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So, as best I can put.

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Speaker 2: It, straightforward English interpretation of this is basically as they're

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Speaker 2: buying up all of these Nvidia chips and servers. Rather

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Speaker 2: than reducing the amount of time over which you can

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Speaker 2: depreciate that, they're actually extending it. And it makes no

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Speaker 2: sense because those chips become obsolete very quickly. So the

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Speaker 2: net effect of that is to basically juice their revenue,

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Speaker 2: juice their net profit, to make their financials look more

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Speaker 2: impressive than they actually are. So he's pointing to that

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Speaker 2: as some sort of significant financial engineering that is going

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Speaker 2: on with these magnificent seven stocks that are economy is

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Speaker 2: basically like floated by.

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Speaker 4: At this point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, you got to take him seriously

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Speaker 3: whenever he makes a bet like this now, to be fair,

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Speaker 3: you know, he was right on the Big short, Michael Burry.

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Speaker 3: He's also been wrong a lot since the Big short,

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Speaker 3: famously telling people don't buy now, and then the S

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Speaker 3: and p's up like seventy percent since he told people

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Speaker 3: to do that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I don't. I can't just sit here

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Speaker 1: and dismiss what the guy said.

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Speaker 3: He's one of the most legendary, you know, people who've

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Speaker 3: found the arbitrage opportunity before anybody else. And so for

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Speaker 3: him in particular, when we're all looking at the AI thing,

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Speaker 3: and it feels wrong. I think it just feels wrong

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Speaker 3: to everybody, from even people on Wall Street to people

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Speaker 3: everyday average folks who are looking at it and feeling uneasy.

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Speaker 3: He's giving some language potentially to something which may have

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Speaker 3: been missed, and having read so much about Enron, about

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Speaker 3: you know, even in the modern times, between dot Com, Enron,

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Speaker 3: world Com and two thousand and eight, the same hallmarks

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Speaker 3: of there's this theory, like the these people on Wall

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Speaker 3: Street are so smart and they know exactly what they're

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Speaker 3: do no, like they get their rational exuberance, they overlook stuff,

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Speaker 3: they undervalue, they you know, they always sat underrate risk,

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Speaker 3: they cheat behind the scenes, Like the Enron thing is

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Speaker 3: so obvious, you know, in retrospect, and yet at the

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Speaker 3: time barely anybody even was able to call it out

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Speaker 3: because of the level of corruption that was happening inside

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Speaker 3: of the system. Same in two thousand and seven, Like

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Speaker 3: the reason The Big Short is such a good movie

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Speaker 3: in a good book in particular, is because there's like

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Speaker 3: four people who really actually saw it coming and were

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Speaker 3: able to make money off of the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: the people who do it for a living. They either

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Speaker 3: had too much invested, or they just didn't see it.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like that's the story.

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Speaker 1: Here with AI.

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Speaker 3: All of the similar you know, feelings around this, the

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Speaker 3: same structural problems, the same amounts of money being made,

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Speaker 3: the same government which is just looking in the other direction,

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Speaker 3: like the ingredients are all there for a massive bust.

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Speaker 3: And I think what's scary about it is that the

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Speaker 3: behavior of a lot of the people at the top,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't inspire confidence. We play Sam Altman yesterday basically

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Speaker 3: having a crash out. Whenever he was asked by a

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Speaker 3: friendly investor. He was like, hey, man, like, how are

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Speaker 3: you going to pay for this one point UW trillion thing?

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Speaker 3: He's like, well, if you don't want it, I'll sell

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Speaker 3: your shares.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like, dude, just answer the questions. Yeah, just answer

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Speaker 1: the question.

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Speaker 5: Bro.

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Speaker 1: You know, your CEO multi billion dollar company used.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people who use your product and or

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Speaker 3: you know, betting on Microsoft stock or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Because of your partnership with them. It's a genuine question.

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Speaker 1: Just answer it. Same like I just mentioned Enron.

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Speaker 3: It's just like Jeff Skilling calling the analyst an asshole

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Speaker 3: who asked a very basic question about their books. Well,

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Speaker 3: here Alex Karp, who's the CEO of Palenteer, basically had

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Speaker 3: a crash out on CNBC over Michael Burry shorting the

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Speaker 3: stock and you know, not just attacking like the short sellers,

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Speaker 3: but not really giving a lot of reason to actually

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Speaker 3: buy the stock or to question why you know, the

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Speaker 3: pe ratio is so crazy high right now.

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Speaker 1: So take a listen.

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Speaker 6: They are two parts.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 6: Of course, when I hear short sellers attacking what I

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Speaker 6: believe is clearly the most important software company in America,

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Speaker 6: therefore in the world in terms of our impact simply

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Speaker 6: to make money and calling trying to call the AI

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Speaker 6: revolution into question, where we have the anomalous numbers one fourteen,

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Speaker 6: rule of forty, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: It just is super triggering because.

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Speaker 6: These people, they could pick on any company in the world,

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Speaker 6: they have to pick on the one that actually helps people,

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Speaker 6: that actually has made money for the average person, that

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Speaker 6: is actually supporting our war fighters. Why do they have

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Speaker 6: to go after us? And I'll tell you what though,

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Speaker 6: it's crazy motivating because I'll tell you why. The short

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Speaker 6: sellers are constantly getting screwed by pound here because every

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Speaker 6: time they short us we just are like tripling down

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Speaker 6: on getting the better numbers and part honestly to make

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Speaker 6: them poorer. But it's almost always sympathy for the expert

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Speaker 6: that doesn't need it, the short seller that has some

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Speaker 6: ridiculous reason for doing something against I mean, most of

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Speaker 6: GDP growth in this country is because of AI. The

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Speaker 6: real question is how we grow that and expose workers.

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Speaker 6: What is the worker available GDP? That's the question for

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Speaker 6: our society. Instead of aligning on that, we've got these completely.

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Speaker 6: And again, if the numbers weren't there, great be my guest.

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Speaker 6: But then the numbers are there, so then it's not

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Speaker 6: even clear he's actually shorting us. It's it's probably just

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Speaker 6: how do I get my position out and not look

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Speaker 6: like a fool. I don't know, but I do think

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Speaker 6: this behavior is egregious and I'm going to be dancing

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Speaker 6: around when it proves it is proven wrong. I mean,

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry short sellers can't tell a difference between products

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Speaker 6: that work in products that don't. But these numbers should

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Speaker 6: show you that there's a part of the market that

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Speaker 6: you quote you is printing cash, and it looks like

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Speaker 6: that part of the market is the park me.

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Speaker 1: Own look I mean, doesn't seem too inspiring to me.

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Speaker 1: That's just me.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of words out there. Here

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Speaker 3: are the basic facts. This stock is up two hundred

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Speaker 3: and seventeen percent.

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Speaker 1: You're to date.

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Speaker 3: They have a PE ratio of five hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: three times, extremely large multiples, high growth expectations, which means

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Speaker 3: that even if you grow moderately well but not very

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Speaker 3: very well, that that means that you were not living

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Speaker 3: up to what the overall value.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's crazy to say.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, No one's saying your company is

415
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Speaker 3: not making a shitload of money, just not that it's

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Speaker 3: worth this orders to magnitude amount of money.

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Speaker 1: That's basically what Burry is saying.

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Speaker 3: And in general, when you see five hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: three times or whatever, that's according to chat GIPT, which

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Speaker 3: I just asked about the PE ratio, I mean, it

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Speaker 3: says one of the highest in the entire United States

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Speaker 3: equities markets. So yeah, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: are like, I don't know, you know, like again, like

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Speaker 3: and when you give an answer like that, I'm like, oh,

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00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 3: we're fighting. And he talks about the retail investor. That's

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Speaker 3: another thing that doesn't give me a lot of confidence.

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Speaker 3: When you're basically trying to get the retailers to continue

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Speaker 3: to buy your stock, you're like not actually talking with

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Speaker 3: the fundamentals of what you do, of what you sell.

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Speaker 3: That AI point also that they make about it being

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Speaker 3: for such a massive percentage of GDP similar as to

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Speaker 3: what I think, makes me very afraid of this entire scything.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, he says that thing about how AI

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Speaker 2: is so central to the economy, responsible for all the

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Speaker 2: GDP growth, and it's like, yes, and yes, that's very troubling.

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Speaker 2: That is exactly why we're also in comfortable right now.

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Speaker 2: Michael Burry responded, we could put this up on the screen.

438
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: He says doesn't surprise sort of cryptic what he says,

439
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 2: he says doesn't surprise me one bit. Alex Carpen's ontology

440
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: Palenteer tech cannot crack a simple thirteen fundamental principle of

441
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 2: any rigorous ontological epistemological model, whether philosophical or in data science,

442
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 2: is recognizing when your information set is insufficient for valid conclusions,

443
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 2: whatever that means. In any case, he's basically saying, like,

444
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 2: this guy's not really providing any evidence here. He's just

445
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: sort of spouting off. And I don't know if you

446
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 2: saw that this this morning, there was a JP Morgan

447
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 2: AI capex report that came out and there's this one

448
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 2: quote from it that is getting shared around about how

449
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: much AI investments would have to return in order to

450
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: generate a ten percent just profit. To drive a ten

451
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 2: percent return on our modeled AI investments through twenty thirty

452
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: would require six hundred and fifty billion dollars of annual

453
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 2: revenue in perpetuity. That equates to either a hundred and

454
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: eighty dollars per month from every Netflix subscriber that's the

455
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: amount of revenue, or thirty four dollars and seventy two

456
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 2: cents per month from every current iPhone user. So those

457
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: that is what has to happen for them to get

458
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 2: a ten percent return on the amount of cash that

459
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 2: they are plowing into these AI investments. I mean, so far,

460
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 2: there is no path to that. You know, when you

461
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: listen to Sam Altman talk and he talks about all

462
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 2: the revenue that they're going to generate in the future,

463
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: it's all extremely speculative. It's like, well, and we think

464
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: he said something to the effect of we think there's

465
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: going to be lots of like science and medicine applications

466
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: that are kind of hard to talk about right now,

467
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: like kind of hard to He didn't say project out,

468
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 2: but that's basically the implication of, like, you know, we

469
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: just are hoping that once we get to this level

470
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: of AGI, there's going to be all sorts of revenue

471
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: that flows in that we haven't really specifically identified and

472
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: can't really see our way too, because we don't know

473
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: exactly how that's going to work. That's what they're a

474
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: whole betting on. So I don't know, guys, that's where

475
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: we are right now. And yet at the same time,

476
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: you know, there is fallout from what's already been done

477
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: already from the development here. You've got the left starting

478
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 2: to push back E four it can put up on

479
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: the screen, you know, Bernie Sanders and others on you know,

480
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 2: the sort of progressive wing of the Democratic Party really

481
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: starting to key into electric bills as a major political issue.

482
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 2: Yesterday we covered how influential that was and some races

483
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: here in Virginia, in those statewide races in Georgia as well.

484
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: So they are starting to push for legislation that would

485
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: make sure that the data centers are paying for their

486
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: own electricity, that that is not getting pushed onto consumers.

487
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: You also have societal fallouts such as this. We can

488
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: put E five up on the screen. You know, allegations

489
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: that chat GPT is pushing some mentally disturbed users towards suicide.

490
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: Listen to this reporting.

491
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 4: They say.

492
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: In one case, chat GPT told Zane Chamblain, as he

493
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: sat in the parking lot with a gun, that killing

494
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 2: himself was not a sign of weakness, but of strength. Quote,

495
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: you didn't vanish, you arrived, rest easy, king. That is

496
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: what chatjept was telling this guy who was contemplating suicide.

497
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: And so, you know, you have already societal reverberations. We

498
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: have no idea what the impact of where we are

499
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: already is going to be on people's mental health, on

500
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: their you know, on the development like brain development of youth,

501
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: on all of our brains, and what you know, what

502
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: it's going to rob from us in terms of our

503
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: humanity and basic ability to think. And so you've got

504
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: already these cases that are just absolutely horrifying of chat

505
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 2: GPT openly pushing people towards suicide.

506
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw a great uh, I talked, yeah, allegedly

507
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 3: allegedly allegedly there with chat GPT, who of course maintains

508
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 3: that they did nothing wrong, and we will pay attention,

509
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 3: of course to the court findings with the many of

510
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: these cases. But I saw a great analysis which said,

511
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 3: what if fifty percent of all of our problems is housing,

512
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 3: twenty five percent is obesity, and twenty five percent is smartphones.

513
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, honestly, those three those are

514
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: three like major pillars.

515
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 3: If you talk about health, if you talk about mental health,

516
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 3: and then you talk about ability to live to thrive,

517
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 3: which basically determines everything downstream from there.

518
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's kind of it.

519
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: And they were like, if you've focused mental health, physical

520
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: mental wealth, that's I mean, come on, these are the

521
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 3: building blocks of society. Like, what if the solution to

522
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: the vast, vast majority of all our problems is cheap

523
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: and affordable housing, making sure that people are healthy, making

524
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: sure that people are social.

525
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: I just was looking at a new statistic.

526
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 3: The amount of people who socialize who are eighteen to

527
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 3: twenty four is down seventy percent in the last twenty years.

528
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: Seventy percent.

529
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 3: That's insane, and a lot of this, you know, breeds

530
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: the very addictions which I demonize here every day on

531
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: a daily basis, marijuana, pornography, sports, gambling. Okay, it's not

532
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: a secret where it all comes from. It's you know,

533
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: everything is downstream really from the smartphone. A lot of

534
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: radical politics is downstream from the smartphone. A lot of

535
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: all our problems is downstream from what's happening with the smartphone.

536
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: So I really just think, you know, we got a

537
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 3: laser focus in on what the sociological data that's coming

538
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 3: out from a lot of this is and this AI stuff,

539
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: like if you feel afraid of it, you should be, like,

540
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: if you feel uneasy, you should be trust yourself, Like,

541
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: don't trust the experts and everybody telling you that everything's

542
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 3: going to be fine, because also if you listen to

543
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: them whenever they're in their little conferences, they talk about

544
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: how everything's not going to be fine, about how humanity

545
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: could be destroyed, every job will be erased and all that.

546
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: You get a voice in your own economy and in

547
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: your own life, like you got to use it. You

548
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: really do like focused in on this stuff.

549
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think that's why the data center

550
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: fight is because it's this physical embodiment. You know, It's

551
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: like with the product rollouts, it's hard to know. Okay, well,

552
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 2: what is this new version of chat GPT you going

553
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 2: to do? And how do I how do I navigate it?

554
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: I mean, even the people are designing it don't really

555
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: understand it. Don't really know what level of awareness and

556
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: potential consciousness or potential intelligence that it has at this point,

557
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: what level of you know, of deceptive behaviors that it

558
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: engages in. So those of us who are not technical

559
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: experts are really at a loss to understand just how

560
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: profound the impact is already of what's available. And so

561
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 2: when you have these data centers that are creating clear

562
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 2: like measurable harm in people's economic lives and in their communities,

563
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 2: I think it's such an important focal point of the pushback,

564
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: which why we've been, you know, focusing intently on it.

565
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm hardened to see that there are

566
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: some who are politically starting to pick it up at

567
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: the national level, because you also are starting to see

568
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: some of the job fall out. Put E seven up

569
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: on the screen, white color higher is negative. Now, this

570
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: is probably not all AI, but some of it likely

571
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 2: is AI, and Derek Thompson says, here, since nineteen forty

572
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: the number of Americans working in professional and business services,

573
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: sort of a white collar supersector, has turned negative year

574
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: over year ten times. The first nine we're during recessions.

575
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: The tenth time is right now.

576
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 5: Now.

577
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 2: He goes on to say, you might expect me to

578
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: say it's AI the time. He really looks like a

579
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: surge of hiring around twenty twenty one was unwound, combined

580
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: with high interest rates, slowing job growth, slowing population growth.

581
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 4: But sure, maybe AI two.

582
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: I think AI is certainly an important part of the story,

583
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: especially when you take a look at the next piece

584
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 2: E eight, which is young unemployment also spiking.

585
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 4: You know, these would be the entry level.

586
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: Workers who would be most immediately impacted by AI and

587
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 2: companies implementing AI and pushing more work onto their existing

588
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: workforce versus bringing in a new cohort. So this is

589
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: Stephen Rattnery says, nonemployment rate for twenty to twenty four

590
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: year olds is now nine point two percent. That's the

591
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: highest level since twenty sixteen, and I think the expectation

592
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: is that that will continue to rise. New college graduate

593
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: unemployment rates continue to move up as well, so you know,

594
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: these are the early stages of the fallout that we're

595
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: already being being able to discern in the job market.

596
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: Now we've got to watch it closely.

597
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: Some of it is AI, some of it is just

598
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 3: you know, interest rates, but the whole.

599
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: Point paraf uncertainty, all of that, yeah, just bad.

600
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 3: And these people are getting filthy rich if even if

601
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: they do pop. And so one of the things I

602
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: have been thinking about so much is like they cannot

603
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 3: let this shit fail. Like the whole country has. Every

604
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: American who has a retirement for portfolio, you bet on AI,

605
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: whether you know it or not. If you are reliant

606
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: on interest rates or any of that, you're also betting

607
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: on AI. Like the whole nation is in on this

608
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: without actually really any say, all of our technological life

609
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: everything has got into this. So if it does fail,

610
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: it will be a bust, which could drag everything down.

611
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: And that's why I said, also, you know, you've got

612
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: a lot of poor Americans who are like always rooting

613
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: for a crash.

614
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: But what they always forget is like they're gonna be

615
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: the first victim.

616
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: You know, they'll cut you first, the first layoffs, the

617
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: first reduction in the amount of money the people who

618
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: will get bailed out and will be okay, Yeah, Alex

619
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: Carpon Pollenteer. Sure their stock could go down one hundred percent,

620
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: it's already up by doing like they're multi billionaires, already

621
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: got the cash.

622
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

623
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: A lot of these folks like they're all gonna be fine.

624
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: That's that's the stuff that really.

625
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: Worries me to mine.

626
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we were all techno optimists at the beginning

627
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: of like the you know, the social media waves and

628
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: smartphone whatever. I didn't have any reluctance about it. I

629
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: just thoughts as positive period end of story, like this

630
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: is great. I mean there's you know, the air of

631
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: spring and the hope of like, oh this democratic engagement.

632
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: I mean, but that was really that was the way

633
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: people genuinely felt, you know, the election of Barack Obama

634
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: and oh my god, we're gonna that was the dream

635
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: of the internet was that it actually would have like

636
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: a flattening effect, that it would create more like small

637
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: d democratic flourishing where ordinary people would get to have

638
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: more of a say, and you know, instead we've actually

639
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: what we've actually seen is a consolidation of like authoritarianism

640
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: and flourishing of like you know, Internet induced psychosis and

641
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: mental illness, which you can see on your timeline literally

642
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: any day, consolidation of wealth in the hands of a

643
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: very few people, and you know, all sorts of effects

644
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: on children and brain development that you know, we were

645
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: never warned about, Like the people who were selling us

646
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: this technology never said, you know, it may come with

647
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: some downsides, so you certainly shouldn't trust them at this

648
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: point to give you the full story about what AI

649
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: is going to look like either and again the truth

650
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: is they don't know.

651
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 4: They don't know either. You know, the goal is to.

652
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: Replace all of us. That's their goal. So that's you know,

653
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: that's if it succeeds. If it fails, then we've got

654
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: this giant bubble and economic calamity looks very grim either way.

655
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: All right, guys, we talked a lot during the show.

656
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: Emily and Crystal are going to cover the atals in

657
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: section tomorrow, so that will be a fun discs. Let's

658
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: listen now to our interview with the APAC Tracker founders

659
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: and then we're going to do our ama later for

660
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: our previous subscribers.

661
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: See you all later.

662
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: So as you guys surely know, a PAC and the

663
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: Israel Lobby more broadly have become lightning rods in American

664
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: politics in no small part thanks to this website. Let's

665
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen where you can go

666
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: and you can check out various members of Congress, various

667
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: candidates and see just how much money they have taken

668
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: from a pack or from the Israel Lobby. Overall, you

669
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 2: now have even centrist Democrats like Seth Molton saying they

670
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: are no longer going to take a pack funds. And

671
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: we are very fortunate to be joined this morning for

672
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: their first public interview ever by the co founders of

673
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: Citizens Against a PAC Corruption. We have Corey Archibald and

674
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: Casey Kennedy. Welcome guys, Thanks so much for having us. Yeah,

675
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: of course, So I want to get a little bit

676
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: of your backstory, what you think the impact of the

677
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: organization has been. But first just tell us a little

678
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: bit about yourselves. And you've been anonymous up to this point.

679
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: What made you decide where I'll start with you to

680
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: come forward in this moment?

681
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Sure?

682
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 8: Well, so a little bit about me. I started working

683
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 8: in progressive politics in twenty seventeen. I worked I was

684
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 8: chair of the board of brand new Congress for six years,

685
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 8: and I worked on a lot of progressive campaigns. I

686
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 8: helped worked on AOC's initial campaign for Congress, I worked

687
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 8: with Corey Busch on her first two runs for Congress,

688
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 8: and also Jamal Bowen and a number of others, but.

689
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: Those three in particular really close to me.

690
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 8: Through that, That's how I got to be really familiar

691
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 8: with the work that APAC is doing and their influence

692
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 8: on our elections.

693
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 4: And so that's, you know, kind of where I got

694
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: started in this process.

695
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

696
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I've been working in the digital marketing space

697
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 7: for about ten years now. I've done both private sector

698
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 7: work and I've worked on political campaigns for like city

699
00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 7: council and a local congressional race. Basically, how I got

700
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 7: into the APAX sphere was actually back in twenty twenty

701
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 7: is the first time I watched the documentary The Lobby.

702
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: It's a deep dive investigative piece.

703
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 7: They go undercover and really do like they pull back

704
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 7: the curtain on APAC and how they're pressuring our government

705
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 7: to tow the policy of the far right extremist Israeli government.

706
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 7: When I saw that in twenty twenty, it really stuck

707
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 7: with me because anti corruption measures have always been kind

708
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 7: of the driving front of my personal politics. And after

709
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 7: seeing that, and then if I ever talked to anybody

710
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 7: else about it, they didn't really know what I was

711
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 7: talking about. So it just was like a glaring like

712
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 7: red flag like something. Why is anybody talking about this?

713
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 7: So that was always in my mind. And then of

714
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 7: course the genocide starts picking up after October seventh, really

715
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 7: starts escalating. We have a live stream genocide, and still

716
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 7: nobody's connecting these dots of why are our officials okay

717
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 7: with being complicit in this? Why are we sending American

718
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 7: tax dollars to be used for war crimes, sending American

719
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 7: made weapons to murder women and children and innocent civilians.

720
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 7: So I just started doing some digging for myself, and

721
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 7: I was kind of surprised to see how the information

722
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 7: was always accessible, but it just wasn't maybe easily accessible

723
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 7: or like broadly pushed out anywhere. So that's when I

724
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 7: had the idea to start a Twitter account in Yeah,

725
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 7: track a Pack. We started that in April of twenty

726
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 7: twenty four, and within about a month we had one

727
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 7: hundred thousand followers, So people were.

728
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 3: Just like it was shocking watching how quickly it became

729
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: a thing. And I know I'm assuming you're but you know,

730
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: you may be surprised it's become a right wing lightning rod.

731
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, okay, good good.

732
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you know that's part of the reason I

733
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: was also interested in talking to you is because, like,

734
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 3: did you guys anticipate you know, from the beginning, you

735
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 3: came together, you created this. It has become like a

736
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: genuine like when you quote tweet a politician or something.

737
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 3: This may seem a lot foreign for any of our

738
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 3: listeners who are not, but I mean this is where

739
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: a leaked to score happens, right, This is where most

740
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: people were battling it on the so called sphere of ideas.

741
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: So what was the impetus of creating the graphics, the tracker?

742
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: And then were you surprised and how quickly it caught on?

743
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 7: So pretty much the idea was to take a complex

744
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 7: topic and put it into a format that could be.

745
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: This one.

746
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 7: It could digest within like two seconds of looking at it.

747
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 7: Everybody wants to say that Vaserel Palestine conflict is complicated.

748
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 7: It's it's really not the reason that our officials are

749
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 7: towing this line is because they are in the pocket

750
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 7: of foreign interests who pressure them to do so. I

751
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 7: was definitely surprised to see how quickly it caught on,

752
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 7: But given how the just the amount atrocities that everybody's seen,

753
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 7: I think everybody was kind of looking for like the reason,

754
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 7: like the actual why is this happening?

755
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and to Soccer's point, anytime you'll see an official,

756
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: you know, say something shitty, and then below it someone

757
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: is sharing your graphics, thing, well, this is why.

758
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 4: Like you look at all the money they're taking it.

759
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 8: If it's really our own account, it certainly other people

760
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 8: that are sharing our graphics.

761
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 4: And yes, that's exactly right.

762
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 8: That's how we've seen how quickly it is spread. I mean,

763
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 8: not only have we seen the graphics showing up everywhere,

764
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 8: they're showing up in text. We're not on TikTok, but

765
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 8: our content is all of those it is, it's everywhere.

766
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 8: And you know, we really started to see the difference

767
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 8: in how elected officials began to engage because of the

768
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 8: change we were having on the dialogue. We started to

769
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 8: see You mentioned Seth Moulton, you know, he came out

770
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 8: recently said he was rejecting APAC money. Well, we actually

771
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 8: had a response to that and we said, okay, well,

772
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 8: you know, we're not impressed yet, So you can't tweet

773
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 8: your way out of supporting a genocide. So you're going

774
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 8: to have to We're going to see some proof from

775
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 8: your votes. Yeah, but there are other elective members who

776
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 8: have in the past taken APAC support. They are now

777
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 8: rejecting it. More and more candidates are running on an

778
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 8: anti APAC platform. We have people that come to us

779
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 8: and ask us to help vet candidates, and we even

780
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 8: have members of Congress stuff have reached out to us

781
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 8: and wanted a dialogue. And really, yeah, so, I mean

782
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 8: that's a lot of how we know the impact that

783
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 8: we're making.

784
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,479
Speaker 1: Well, that's real power.

785
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: That's how you know, you go from a Twitter account

786
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: to like being actually which you know, it's kind of

787
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: amazing to watch it.

788
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 7: Never just it's pretty incredible the amount of people who

789
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 7: have reached out through our dms, Like many members of Congress,

790
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 7: I'm not going to say who they are. If any

791
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 7: other member of Congress wants to reach out, we're always

792
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 7: happy to have a dialogue.

793
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: Well, in casey, let me ask you a little bit

794
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: more about this Seth Milton piece, because there's also some

795
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: reporting that first he went to a PAC and when

796
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: they were like, yeah, we're not going to give you money,

797
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: he was like, I hate a pack.

798
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: I'm totally not.

799
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 7: Taking exactly why we didn't throw out like colossal amount

800
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 7: of praise for him, like thank you for calling out

801
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 7: the pack is a corrupting force?

802
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well but what would you say, like, what's

803
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 2: the next question to ask? Because a PAC Also, it's

804
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: important for people to understand a PAC has kind of

805
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: become the catch all. They're not the only part of

806
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: the is're a lobby though in a lot of Democratic

807
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: primers on this group DMF five that Ryan Graham, our colleague,

808
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: has done tons of the best reporting on and that.

809
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: But you know, so what is once you get okay,

810
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: here's this money to interest a pack, what is the

811
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: next question to ask that politician if they're now able

812
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: to check the box, Okay, I'm not going to take

813
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 2: a pack dollars? Because we've also seen some reporting that

814
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: maybe what happens is the individual a pack donors give

815
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: the money, so they can technically say they're taking bad money,

816
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: but they're really getting, you know, still the same amount

817
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 2: from the same group of people.

818
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 8: So this is actually part of the work that we're

819
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 8: doing through the PACK is we're actually expanding on the

820
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 8: data project that we started with Track a PACK. We

821
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 8: are going to be beefing up that infrastructure and digging

822
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 8: deeper because certainly it didn't start with the more recent

823
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 8: rejections of a PAC with the APAC brand becoming as.

824
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: Toxic as it has at this point. They have always

825
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 4: funneled donors.

826
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 8: Directly to the back door, but not to the same

827
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 8: degree that we're starting to see it now.

828
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: We're starting to see.

829
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 8: Reporting about you know, leaked emails where they're just directing

830
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 8: people straight to secret donation pages. So, you know, with

831
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 8: knowing that that's happening, we are going to be expanding

832
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 8: our data infrastructure so that we can more accurately report

833
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 8: like the full picture to see these individual donors also

834
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 8: get folded into into the numbers.

835
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: There's the individual donor, the ad L there's an entire

836
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: network of this stuff. I've got.

837
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: You know, we've gone up against it, We've faced significant obstacles,

838
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: so I'm curious, you know, what's it been like, you know,

839
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: on the receiving end of this.

840
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they will, they will, They'll go after you.

841
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: Well, we're starting to feel that it's also about why we're.

842
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 7: Here, So I would probably go back about a month ago,

843
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 7: Apex are going on a tirade on Twitter. They were

844
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 7: tagging us, replying to a bunch of our posts, quoting us,

845
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 7: trying to invalidate our data, trying to smear Ocanna for

846
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 7: praising our work, and it didn't really work out for them,

847
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 7: so I guess they just went away. But interestingly enough,

848
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,959
Speaker 7: about a week after that is when we started seeing

849
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 7: my information be posted into our replies. So it's like

850
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 7: my picture, some information I ran for a Central Committee

851
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 7: off a Democratic Central Committee office a few years ago,

852
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 7: so that's how they found some of my basic details.

853
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 7: And they didn't really don't have anything else to go on,

854
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 7: but they're just kind of spinning up all sorts of

855
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 7: different narratives about who I might be or who I'm

856
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 7: working for.

857
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: So that was just kind of interesting to see.

858
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 7: It was very obviously an organized effort, Like we could

859
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 7: see whish account same timing point.

860
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so who do you work for? Then I

861
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: work for myself, Okay, we work for the guys, work

862
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: for the pack. Yeah, we worked for the PACK. I

863
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: guess yeah.

864
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 8: I mean, well, actually the work that we're doing through

865
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 8: the Pack currently is on a volunteer basis. I mean,

866
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 8: we've been really focused on building our war chest. We

867
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 8: both have other other work that we do, but like

868
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 8: we've been focused on building our war chest for the

869
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 8: last year has been my focus. While Casey's been driving

870
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 8: the data transparency project, I've been driving the kind of

871
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 8: fundraising and building up our resources because we.

872
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Do intend inevitables out of the way, no foreign funding, for.

873
00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 9: Foreign funding, no guitar, no guitar none. Okay, sure, never

874
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 9: never met the man, anything about him?

875
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: Who else? Who are the other books?

876
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 4: You're you're on the right, I don't know. You can

877
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 4: tell me who you people are concerned about it.

878
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: I think I think that's pretty much it. That's pretty

879
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: much it. So it's just you know, normal Americans who

880
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: are upset.

881
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly what role do you hope that your organization

882
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: plays in? I think, you know, it seems like there's

883
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: sort of a democratic tea party that's brewing.

884
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: Zora Mom.

885
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: Donnie's victory in New York City was a major earthquake

886
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: in terms of national politics, in terms of democratic party

887
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: politics specifically, you know, what what role do you all

888
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: hope to play in the forthcoming primary season.

889
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, we set out to really make the uh

890
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 8: to make working with a Pack of political liability. That

891
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 8: is that has been our primary focus. That was that

892
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 8: was how the Track a Pack project started. And then

893
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 8: I found it the pack and we got introduced by

894
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 8: mutual connection, brought the two realized immediately like our our

895
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 8: work was very synchronous and just to merge our efforts

896
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 8: into one thing. And so that's now what we leave together.

897
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 8: But that's the goal really is we want to make

898
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 8: working with APAK a political liability, and that's the reason

899
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 8: why it's in the name Track APAC Citizens Against APAC Corruption.

900
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 4: We're coming straight at them.

901
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 8: When I saw what they did to Andy Levin, when

902
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 8: I saw the way that they have a smeared and

903
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 8: attacked Bernie Sanders repeatedly, When I saw what they did

904
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 8: and the money that they spent against Corey Bush and

905
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 8: Jamal Bowman to take them down, I was so furious

906
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 8: as a person who worked in this space that no

907
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 8: one was going on off against offense against APAK, or

908
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 8: that there wasn't I can't say no one that there

909
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 8: wasn't enough of a forcible offense against a pack, and

910
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 8: that's what we set out to.

911
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 4: Do, just to go on offense.

912
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: Well, I was telling you last week I interviewed Summerley,

913
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: who is represented for Pittsburgh, and had she had just

914
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 2: put out like the most mild tweet about is one

915
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: tweet one time about Israel, and that was enough for

916
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: the Israel lobby to come in and spend millions of

917
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: dollars against her.

918
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 4: She narrowly wins. She was a whatever comment and she

919
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: genarily won.

920
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: And she said, you know, I think now it would

921
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: be different because at that time there just wasn't a

922
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: level of awareness. And now obviously the genocide live stream

923
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: and all of our feeds is the biggest part of

924
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: the awareness of just how horrific this country is. And

925
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 2: you know, the policy is coming from this country, our

926
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: own politicians complicity, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, with the

927
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: atrocities that are being committed by Israel. But you guys

928
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: really help to sort of coalesce this understanding of the

929
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: of the inner workings. So I just want to say, like,

930
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 2: thank you for doing that work. It's been incredibly important.

931
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: It's been very useful for us as a journal Yeah,

932
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: when I'm interviewing, you know, we're interviewing a sentate helpful

933
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: to have right there exactly where they're taking money from.

934
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: Sometimes you clip some of my spiciest content and then

935
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: other people it can be cause a lot of problems

936
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 3: my personal life. But okay, so this is the last

937
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: question I think about the inevitable anti semitism. Okay, so

938
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: you know that's part of the criticism. I hear, Hey,

939
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: it's anti semitic to say a pack should register as

940
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 3: a foreign lobby. These are American citizens. They're rightfully spending

941
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: their money as they would like. What's your response to that?

942
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 3: Is it anti semitic to track apac on it? Why

943
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 3: aren't you tracking Nigerian fun or any of these.

944
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 7: Other I would say it is not anti semitic to

945
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 7: stand against an ongoing genocide that's being perpetrated with American backing,

946
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 7: American tax dollars and American weapons. What we're doing here

947
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 7: is taking information that's always been publicly accessible, but making

948
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 7: it more easily accessible and digestible for the public.

949
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: And I would guess that you guys would support the

950
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: tracking of other money in politics as well, yeah, you.

951
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: Can look at it.

952
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 7: We have track oil packs which has recently started up.

953
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 7: So that's kind of our next target.

954
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: Is the big oil lobby.

955
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I mean have working in progressive politics as

956
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 8: I have, I've always worked with candidates that stood against

957
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 8: corporate pac money. It's actually one of the litmus tests

958
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 8: for candidates that would like to get.

959
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 4: An endorsement from US.

960
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 8: Is one of the questions we have is will you

961
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 8: support overturning of citizens united and standing against corporate money

962
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 8: and politics.

963
00:44:58,760 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: It's very important to both of us.

964
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: That is actually my last question is you guys are

965
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: backing a slate of candidates, what are the specific criteria

966
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: that they have to meet to be, you know, considered

967
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 2: for your endorsement.

968
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 7: So these are candidates are going to reject money and

969
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 7: support from APAC and their allies, So that would not

970
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 7: be just a pack. It's the other groups like DMFI,

971
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 7: r JC if they're on the Republican side, there's a

972
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 7: whole slate of other groups. We also asked them if

973
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 7: they would support enforcing the Lahy Laws to make sure

974
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 7: that we're not sending weapons to be used in war crimes.

975
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 7: We asked them if they support Palestinian statehood for the

976
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 7: US to stop blocking such votes at the.

977
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 4: UN and considered a genocide.

978
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: What's happening genoside, that's a deal breaker if they don't side.

979
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, and then of course citizens United, because that's really

980
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 7: a key to getting big money out of politics.

981
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 4: It's interesting, amazing.

982
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: Well, if you guys want a different type of politics,

983
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: you know, they've created incredible resources for you all to

984
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: go and see who the candidates are, who the you know,

985
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: members of Congress are are, Who's what kind of money

986
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: has been flowing into their coffers. So you guys can

987
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: can choose candidates that you know ultimately align with your values.

988
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: And I have personally, you know, consulted your resources. I

989
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: will make you know, contributions at times to candidates, and

990
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: if they're not on your list, they're not gonna be

991
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: on my list.

992
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: It's public data. That's all you did. It is for

993
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: all the people we're freaking out about it, like sorry,

994
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: all right.

995
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 8: And if people want to support the work we're doing,

996
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 8: as I said, we've been building up our war chest.

997
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 4: We're still building it.

998
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 8: If they want to support the work they're doing that

999
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 8: we're doing, we can go to UH Citizens against apac

1000
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 8: dot Com or track apac dot Com, either one of those.

1001
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 8: We have a donate button right there, and any contributions

1002
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 8: are helpful. Like we're really focused on being able to

1003
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 8: make a big play in some of these upcoming primaries.

1004
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 4: Amazing, Thank you guys. Great to be