WEBVTT - Gambler Billy Walters on the Sharp's Life 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:27.076 Pushkin. Michael lewis here, Welcome back to Against the Rules. 0:00:28.116 --> 0:00:29.956 You might have noticed from the early episodes of this 0:00:29.996 --> 0:00:32.196 season that I've got a weakness for the old school 0:00:32.236 --> 0:00:35.036 sports gambler, the kind who found a hard way to 0:00:35.076 --> 0:00:38.236 make an easy living and then somehow made it even harder, 0:00:39.116 --> 0:00:41.836 who screwed up and lived large, and took crazy risks 0:00:42.196 --> 0:00:46.476 and eventually found some edge. No one screwed up quite 0:00:46.476 --> 0:00:49.756 so much, or live quite so large, or found such 0:00:49.796 --> 0:00:53.036 a sharp edge as Billy Walders. He's maybe the most 0:00:53.076 --> 0:00:57.116 famous sports better in American history. He was born poor 0:00:57.156 --> 0:01:00.196 in Kentucky and betting on anything that moved before he 0:01:00.236 --> 0:01:03.036 was old enough to drink. Then he started drinking and 0:01:03.036 --> 0:01:07.156 bet even more. He's been a car dealer, a poker champion, 0:01:07.636 --> 0:01:10.436 and also an inmate at a federal prison after he 0:01:10.516 --> 0:01:14.316 was convicted of insider trading. President Trump pardoned him back 0:01:14.316 --> 0:01:17.876 in twenty twenty one. But let me let him tell 0:01:17.876 --> 0:01:21.036 you about himself. Here he is reading from his memoir 0:01:21.796 --> 0:01:23.836 titled Simply Gambler. 0:01:24.836 --> 0:01:29.036 I'm a gambler, but not just any gambler. My wager 0:01:29.076 --> 0:01:33.996 has ran the spectrum, pitching pennies and dingy racetrack bathrooms, 0:01:34.516 --> 0:01:39.436 hustling pool and back road shanties, betting thousands of dollars 0:01:39.476 --> 0:01:43.556 on a single putt on golf courses, and losing millions 0:01:43.556 --> 0:01:47.956 in Las Vegas casinos. And that does include betting billions 0:01:47.996 --> 0:01:51.076 of dollars collectively on every American sport. 0:01:52.996 --> 0:01:55.116 Billy Walters has a lot to say about the life 0:01:55.116 --> 0:01:57.996 he's lived in the state of legalized sports betting in 0:01:58.036 --> 0:02:01.076 the US today. He knows where the bodies are buried, 0:02:01.436 --> 0:02:05.396 and only narrowly escaped being buried there himself. So I 0:02:05.396 --> 0:02:08.756 wanted to devote a whole episode to our conversation. I 0:02:08.756 --> 0:02:13.916 know you'll enjoy it. When did you first realize I 0:02:14.036 --> 0:02:14.796 like to gamble? 0:02:15.636 --> 0:02:19.116 From the second I was introduced to the I don't know. 0:02:19.196 --> 0:02:25.876 I was around five years old. Probably my grandmother started 0:02:25.996 --> 0:02:28.316 leaving me my uncle's pool room when I was four. 0:02:30.636 --> 0:02:32.756 I know for sure the time I was six, I 0:02:32.796 --> 0:02:36.156 was playing penny nine ball. But the first time I 0:02:36.156 --> 0:02:39.476 did any type of gambling, it was like, you know, 0:02:39.516 --> 0:02:40.996 a child being introduced to sugar. 0:02:41.676 --> 0:02:42.596 I really enjoyed it. 0:02:43.076 --> 0:02:44.756 Why do you think you enjoyed it? You wouldn't have 0:02:44.956 --> 0:02:46.756 put it into words when you're six years old, But 0:02:46.756 --> 0:02:48.156 when you look back on it, What do you think 0:02:48.196 --> 0:02:48.956 you liked about it? 0:02:50.876 --> 0:02:53.636 I think even at that age, although I never consciously 0:02:53.796 --> 0:02:55.436 thought about it, I got a rush out of it. 0:02:57.036 --> 0:02:59.556 I think there was. I think there was a rush. 0:02:59.636 --> 0:03:01.716 I think there was, you know. 0:03:02.076 --> 0:03:06.116 I mean, who who doesn't like to win? From as 0:03:06.156 --> 0:03:11.636 far back as I can remember, I've been competitive, But 0:03:11.756 --> 0:03:14.156 the gambling part, I think the main reason is. 0:03:14.156 --> 0:03:17.636 The rush from it. You had that rush right away, 0:03:17.836 --> 0:03:18.476 Oh for sure. 0:03:19.036 --> 0:03:22.156 I kind of want to fast forward to this transition 0:03:22.276 --> 0:03:25.556 in your career where you go from being what you 0:03:25.636 --> 0:03:28.876 described as a degenerate gambler to an edge player. 0:03:29.756 --> 0:03:33.556 When I lived in a small town in Kentucky, Muffordville, 0:03:34.196 --> 0:03:36.796 I became a pretty good pool player. And then when 0:03:36.796 --> 0:03:39.316 I got out of high school, I wanted the automobile business, 0:03:39.636 --> 0:03:44.076 and I started making more money than I'd ever imagined. 0:03:44.116 --> 0:03:46.556 And as a result, I had access to more money 0:03:47.356 --> 0:03:53.276 and started betting sports and started playing poker. And really 0:03:53.316 --> 0:03:56.916 I had no reason to have any type of an age. 0:03:56.956 --> 0:04:00.756 I mean, I'm using a goal sheet and picking all 0:04:00.836 --> 0:04:03.156 games out of that. I mean, I wasn't better on 0:04:03.276 --> 0:04:05.276 my favorite teams. I wasn't dumb enough to do that. 0:04:05.436 --> 0:04:07.756 But I was probably even dumber. I had a goal 0:04:07.836 --> 0:04:11.316 sheet and thought I knew something about it, and that's 0:04:11.316 --> 0:04:15.036 how initially started betting sports and then golf from day one. 0:04:15.156 --> 0:04:17.556 Though I was never really a sucker when it came 0:04:17.596 --> 0:04:19.396 to match it up playing golf because it was a 0:04:19.396 --> 0:04:22.556 lot like pool, So I didn't take any of the 0:04:22.636 --> 0:04:23.836 worst of it playing golf. 0:04:24.516 --> 0:04:26.756 Ever, where did you take the worst of it? 0:04:27.796 --> 0:04:30.476 I took the worst of it betting sports. And this 0:04:30.556 --> 0:04:33.756 is the reason that I have concerns about, you know, 0:04:33.956 --> 0:04:39.156 the potential addiction in the way things are going with 0:04:39.836 --> 0:04:43.956 legalized sports betting. There's a tremendous amount of addiction out 0:04:43.956 --> 0:04:44.876 there that exists. 0:04:44.916 --> 0:04:45.116 Now. 0:04:45.716 --> 0:04:47.556 I was one of those people. That's the reason I 0:04:47.556 --> 0:04:49.836 can talk about this. The only person that doesn't have 0:04:49.876 --> 0:04:51.836 a place at the table right now is a player. 0:04:52.676 --> 0:04:56.116 You know, you've got regulators, you've got operators, and regulators 0:04:56.156 --> 0:04:58.596 don't know anything about it. They've been told what to 0:04:58.676 --> 0:05:03.236 do by basically the lobbyists who were either ex regulators 0:05:03.316 --> 0:05:07.236 or ex politicians who the operators have hired. So essentially, 0:05:07.556 --> 0:05:10.836 the operators have created a vironment where it's you know, 0:05:10.916 --> 0:05:14.876 it's very very conducive to their business into them but 0:05:15.476 --> 0:05:18.716 it's not in the long term best interest of legalized 0:05:18.756 --> 0:05:21.316 sports betting, you know. And I got introduced to sports 0:05:21.396 --> 0:05:24.076 betting and I had money, and uh, you know, it's 0:05:24.076 --> 0:05:26.156 the same old story. You know, you get loser, and 0:05:26.196 --> 0:05:28.796 you tell yourself the story. You know, as soon as 0:05:28.796 --> 0:05:31.996 I get even, I'm gonna quit. Well, two things either happen. 0:05:32.076 --> 0:05:34.916 You never you never get even, or you do get even, 0:05:34.956 --> 0:05:36.356 you think, well, I got to figure it out. Now 0:05:36.396 --> 0:05:38.196 I'm going to beat them, and you still don't quit. 0:05:38.996 --> 0:05:43.316 And uh, you know, you're you definitely have a mathematical 0:05:43.356 --> 0:05:47.596 disadvantage if you're just picking bowl games with no information whatsoever. 0:05:48.316 --> 0:05:51.836 But as I got access to more money, I got 0:05:51.876 --> 0:05:55.156 invited to go to Las Vegas, and uh, and you know, 0:05:55.516 --> 0:05:58.556 clearly that was an eye opener. I mean it's like 0:05:59.676 --> 0:06:01.956 you know, a wild dog in a meet house. I mean, 0:06:02.036 --> 0:06:05.436 I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. The games were always too small, 0:06:05.836 --> 0:06:07.916 nobody would ever play for a lot of money. But 0:06:07.956 --> 0:06:09.996 when I got to Las Vegas, I was different. And 0:06:10.156 --> 0:06:13.276 of course I'm playing games I had a mathematical advantage in, 0:06:13.396 --> 0:06:16.316 but the limits were they were much higher. So, man, 0:06:16.636 --> 0:06:20.076 Las Vegas, I love that, But my problem during that 0:06:20.116 --> 0:06:23.796 period of time was drinking. When I didn't drink, I 0:06:23.956 --> 0:06:25.956 was a really tough guy to beat down his money, 0:06:26.876 --> 0:06:29.596 you know, whether it was poker, whether it was golf. 0:06:30.556 --> 0:06:32.836 As a matter of fact, I was a winning player. 0:06:33.556 --> 0:06:36.676 But the problem was a drinking and I didn't think 0:06:36.676 --> 0:06:39.236 I had a problem with it because I didn't really 0:06:39.356 --> 0:06:42.396 drink that often. You know, I would drink, and when 0:06:42.436 --> 0:06:45.116 I did drink, I would get hammered and the dumbest 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:48.556 decisions I were made. I mean I made those while 0:06:48.596 --> 0:06:53.596 I was drinking, But once that night was over, I 0:06:53.596 --> 0:06:56.956 didn't drink again for like three weeks months sometime. 0:06:57.116 --> 0:06:57.476 Huh. 0:06:57.516 --> 0:06:59.436 So I never dreamed I really had a problem of 0:06:59.516 --> 0:07:03.396 drinking until after a number of years. I kept looking back, 0:07:03.396 --> 0:07:05.716 and every problem that I ever created for myself, whether 0:07:05.716 --> 0:07:09.076 it be financial or personal, they all came from drink. 0:07:10.796 --> 0:07:12.956 When do you cease to be a degenerate gambler and 0:07:12.956 --> 0:07:14.276 when do you become something else? 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.396 When I moved to Las, say yes, my money management 0:07:18.476 --> 0:07:25.356 skills were blow average. I had a difficult time going 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:29.556 to bed loser regardless of of you know, whether I 0:07:29.596 --> 0:07:32.596 had the best of it or not. But anyway, once 0:07:32.676 --> 0:07:35.476 Chip became my partner. He probably was as good a 0:07:35.516 --> 0:07:40.796 manager with managing money as any gambler I ever met 0:07:40.876 --> 0:07:43.356 in my life. And I think there were times probably 0:07:43.436 --> 0:07:46.676 that he was a little too conservative, but overall, at 0:07:46.676 --> 0:07:50.196 the end of the day, looking back at it, I 0:07:50.236 --> 0:07:53.636 think he made the best decisions of anyone I've seen, 0:07:54.756 --> 0:07:58.316 and by being his partner, you know, after a period 0:07:58.356 --> 0:08:00.756 of time, I saw what he was doing was right. 0:08:01.316 --> 0:08:03.356 What kind of things was he doing that you weren't 0:08:03.396 --> 0:08:04.996 doing well? 0:08:05.316 --> 0:08:09.276 As example, I mean, if we had eight games to 0:08:09.276 --> 0:08:11.436 bet on a Sunday, if we were to go one 0:08:11.516 --> 0:08:15.596 in seven and we had one play left, we didn't 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:17.836 bet any more any less on that game than what 0:08:17.876 --> 0:08:20.036 we were supposed to bet, or if we had no 0:08:20.076 --> 0:08:23.076 plays left, we went to bed. What I was doing 0:08:23.236 --> 0:08:25.116 is if we'd gone one in seven, there was one 0:08:25.116 --> 0:08:26.636 game left, whether I had a better or not, I 0:08:26.676 --> 0:08:29.116 was going to bet on it. And then the other 0:08:29.396 --> 0:08:31.916 thing I would do, if it was a small, I 0:08:31.916 --> 0:08:34.156 would end up playing it as a large or something 0:08:34.196 --> 0:08:36.836 such as that. So that was Those are the main 0:08:36.916 --> 0:08:39.756 things that he was doing that I wasn't doing. 0:08:40.276 --> 0:08:43.556 He was rule based very much, so yes, yes, you 0:08:43.596 --> 0:08:51.516 weren't not in the least no, but anyway, so after 0:08:51.996 --> 0:08:54.116 a very short period of time, I saw he was right, 0:08:54.156 --> 0:08:56.196 and then I became le based on everything that I 0:08:56.236 --> 0:09:00.716 did until I drank. And then, you know, as the example, 0:09:00.756 --> 0:09:03.716 I accumulated a million dollars and I went out one 0:09:03.796 --> 0:09:08.276 night again drinking, got drunk, lost the entire million dollars. 0:09:08.276 --> 0:09:12.116 Once another two thousand dollars. I did that again, only 0:09:12.156 --> 0:09:14.516 the next time it was a two million dollars. And 0:09:14.556 --> 0:09:18.476 then finally there was an incident that came up that 0:09:18.836 --> 0:09:21.476 made me decide that I was never going to drink again. 0:09:22.956 --> 0:09:25.636 We're going to take a quick break. Then hear all 0:09:25.676 --> 0:09:39.196 about that incident. I'm back with Billy Walters talking about 0:09:39.196 --> 0:09:42.196 the sensational turn his gambling life took back in nineteen 0:09:42.236 --> 0:09:44.836 eighty seven after he quit drinking. 0:09:46.636 --> 0:09:48.836 I had a good friend. His name was Freddie Ferris, 0:09:49.356 --> 0:09:53.476 his nickname was Sarge. He was a poker player in 0:09:53.516 --> 0:09:59.156 Las Vegas, very successful poker player, and he had been 0:09:59.236 --> 0:10:03.716 diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor and lung cancer. And 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:08.476 I was a smoker at the time, and I went 0:10:08.516 --> 0:10:11.556 out that night with another friend. I was really depressed, 0:10:12.596 --> 0:10:15.996 started drinking. I went to the horseshoe started gambling and 0:10:17.076 --> 0:10:20.036 had an incident with one of the owners, Ted Benyon, 0:10:20.836 --> 0:10:24.996 and really made a fool of myself. I got up 0:10:24.996 --> 0:10:29.436 the next day and I felt so bad about, you know, 0:10:29.756 --> 0:10:31.516 the incident, so I called up. 0:10:33.116 --> 0:10:34.796 Check Benion, his older brother. 0:10:34.676 --> 0:10:38.796 Apologized, He accepted my apology, and I decided that that 0:10:38.956 --> 0:10:41.676 day that look, I'm not going to make a fool 0:10:41.716 --> 0:10:45.276 of myself anymore. This will be the last call I 0:10:45.396 --> 0:10:48.516 left to make and make this apology. So I quit 0:10:48.596 --> 0:10:51.076 drinking and I quit smoking the same day. I knew 0:10:51.116 --> 0:10:53.836 at that point in time that smoking was harmful. I 0:10:53.876 --> 0:10:58.596 was addicted like everyone else was. But when Sarage, when 0:10:58.596 --> 0:11:03.116 he was diagnosed, you know, that was a final deciding 0:11:03.196 --> 0:11:03.836 factor for me. 0:11:04.876 --> 0:11:08.516 So you are probably a rare person who went to 0:11:08.596 --> 0:11:11.596 Vegas and shed himself advices. 0:11:11.636 --> 0:11:14.956 True, very rare, because at the time I was also 0:11:15.076 --> 0:11:19.516 a professional poker player along with betting sports, and I 0:11:19.556 --> 0:11:22.676 had just won the Super Bowl of Poker that year 0:11:22.676 --> 0:11:25.596 I think it was in eighty six. And when I 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:29.276 decided to quit smoking, I decided to quit playing poker too, 0:11:29.356 --> 0:11:32.196 because the court rooms at that time. 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:35.836 Were full of smoke. So I quit playing poker. 0:11:37.116 --> 0:11:42.196 And basically quit playing high stakes, golf, and I really 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:45.876 focused on nothing but sports betting. I was doing sports 0:11:45.916 --> 0:11:50.436 three hunder and sixty five days a year. Baseball, basketball, golf, hockey, tennis. 0:11:50.236 --> 0:11:53.356 Was the sports at that point consistently profitable. 0:11:53.556 --> 0:11:54.316 Yeah, very much. 0:11:54.316 --> 0:11:56.996 So what happened with me in the sports is Michael 0:11:57.116 --> 0:12:02.356 Kent was the first guy who had written a software 0:12:02.396 --> 0:12:06.636 program to handicapped sports. Up until that point, everyone was 0:12:06.676 --> 0:12:08.916 doing sports with a pencil and piece of paper, and 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:16.556 Michael really revolutionized the way that handicapping was done. He 0:12:16.676 --> 0:12:20.636 was a mathematician, but he also loved sports. But I 0:12:20.716 --> 0:12:24.316 realized after we became associated within a couple of years, 0:12:24.396 --> 0:12:30.076 that he eventually was going to lose his entire competitive 0:12:30.116 --> 0:12:36.116 advantage if he couldn't continue to find things that others 0:12:36.356 --> 0:12:43.956 didn't recognize. So I started recruiting other people with similar 0:12:43.956 --> 0:12:48.636 skill sets, and I also started recruiting people who knew 0:12:48.716 --> 0:12:53.756 the qualitative side of the sports business very well. And then, 0:12:54.556 --> 0:12:58.196 of course, you know, I've been doing it for some 0:12:58.396 --> 0:13:02.316 time and have become pretty good being able to manage 0:13:02.316 --> 0:13:06.196 a market of it. So I was essentially taking a 0:13:06.236 --> 0:13:11.716 consensus of what these people were doing and then factoring 0:13:11.756 --> 0:13:15.476 in both their strengths and weaknesses, and then factoring in, 0:13:16.676 --> 0:13:19.716 you know, a gambler side of the thing that they 0:13:19.756 --> 0:13:23.236 didn't understand. And and and that's what I was doing 0:13:23.236 --> 0:13:24.036 betting sports. 0:13:24.796 --> 0:13:26.196 Is that is that the computer group. 0:13:26.756 --> 0:13:28.756 The computer group was Michael Kent. 0:13:29.276 --> 0:13:33.756 Whi's the first thing you see where he has predictive 0:13:33.796 --> 0:13:35.396 power that you can put to use. 0:13:36.836 --> 0:13:40.356 Before I came to Las Vegas and Kentucky, I was, 0:13:40.836 --> 0:13:44.036 I was betting sports, and I was booking sports, and 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:46.876 I was handicapping sports myself. I didn't do anything at all 0:13:46.796 --> 0:13:49.076 about computers. I did everything with pencil and paper. I 0:13:49.156 --> 0:13:51.716 was I had power ratings, and of course I had 0:13:51.796 --> 0:13:54.676 player values. I had all those things. But I'm betting 0:13:54.676 --> 0:13:57.316 sports and I'm booking, and I'm shading my numbers based 0:13:57.396 --> 0:14:01.956 upon my opinion. And then uh, there's a guy that 0:14:01.996 --> 0:14:04.596 I knew that was betting me from Pittsburgh, and uh, 0:14:05.276 --> 0:14:07.716 the guy was consistently went and I saw after about 0:14:07.716 --> 0:14:10.676 three weeks, I said, this guy's a showy. The money 0:14:10.716 --> 0:14:16.196 was coming from Kent, the so called computer group, and 0:14:16.476 --> 0:14:19.996 take their bets. I would adjust my numbers accordingly, and 0:14:20.036 --> 0:14:21.916 then I would get rid of their bets and go 0:14:21.956 --> 0:14:22.316 with it. 0:14:23.156 --> 0:14:23.636 And then. 0:14:25.516 --> 0:14:29.476 As the more successful that they became, that they needed 0:14:29.516 --> 0:14:32.956 more market, and they all had market in New York 0:14:32.996 --> 0:14:35.356 and in Las Vegas. I basically had the rest of 0:14:35.396 --> 0:14:40.116 the country. And so they approached me about, you know, 0:14:40.436 --> 0:14:42.716 giving me the order instead of betting me and I 0:14:42.716 --> 0:14:45.676 would move the order and share the order of them, 0:14:45.716 --> 0:14:46.596 and I agreed. 0:14:46.316 --> 0:14:46.716 To do that. 0:14:47.476 --> 0:14:49.996 This is really interesting to me because it's the birth 0:14:49.996 --> 0:14:51.356 of something new in gambling. 0:14:51.916 --> 0:14:55.476 It's like the sand wedge and golf. It is. 0:14:55.916 --> 0:14:59.396 It really was, and there's no question about it. It 0:14:59.436 --> 0:15:02.116 was like the sand wedge and golf. As you know, 0:15:02.156 --> 0:15:05.556 when you really think about sports, how many things have 0:15:05.716 --> 0:15:09.476 happened in regards to sports as far as handicapping sports 0:15:09.476 --> 0:15:13.636 are concerned. That truly make a difference. But as you 0:15:14.716 --> 0:15:19.276 noted earlier and very correctly, so, you know, it's computer 0:15:19.316 --> 0:15:22.716 and software are worth nothing. The information is the only 0:15:22.796 --> 0:15:26.956 thing that's inside of that software that has any value. 0:15:27.156 --> 0:15:30.636 And you know, when I wrote the book that I wrote, 0:15:31.156 --> 0:15:33.796 I put everything in the world in there that I 0:15:33.876 --> 0:15:38.396 know about handicapping sports. I also put everything I knew 0:15:38.396 --> 0:15:41.796 in there about basic betting strategy, which frankly, between you 0:15:41.836 --> 0:15:44.956 and I, I think that's more important. 0:15:44.716 --> 0:15:48.276 Giving me example of a betting strategy that doesn't naturally 0:15:48.316 --> 0:15:50.716 occur to people when they enter a market. 0:15:51.076 --> 0:15:54.156 Well, I'm going to explain to you what probably ninety 0:15:54.156 --> 0:15:56.436 plus percent of these new betters are doing. They have 0:15:56.556 --> 0:16:00.596 one account. Someone paid them a bonus. They have one 0:16:00.636 --> 0:16:03.116 account at the very most. They have to you know, 0:16:03.236 --> 0:16:08.316 they have no ideas for strategies concerned in regards to 0:16:08.396 --> 0:16:10.676 which way the line is going to move or isn't 0:16:10.676 --> 0:16:15.156 going to move, and they probably really don't understand the 0:16:15.316 --> 0:16:18.596 value of certain numbers. Well, if a game six and 0:16:18.636 --> 0:16:20.596 a half and you're looking to take seven, why it's 0:16:20.596 --> 0:16:22.476 so important to wait and try to get some of 0:16:22.516 --> 0:16:26.316 them instead of taking six and a half. Most of 0:16:26.356 --> 0:16:30.516 them don't have any money management system at all. So 0:16:30.796 --> 0:16:33.516 the basic betting strategy I put in there was real simple, 0:16:34.356 --> 0:16:36.836 get as many accounts as you can that are illegal, 0:16:36.876 --> 0:16:39.076 and you feel like some you know, you get paid. 0:16:40.516 --> 0:16:43.076 It's just like any any type shopping. I mean, if 0:16:43.116 --> 0:16:46.876 you decide you want to buy, you know, a pair 0:16:46.876 --> 0:16:49.316 of shoes and a brand name pair of shoes, you 0:16:49.316 --> 0:16:52.316 can go up on the internet and there's probably one 0:16:52.356 --> 0:16:56.036 hundred places you shop for for you know, for different sizes, colors, 0:16:56.036 --> 0:17:00.756 and prices. With sports vetting, basically they've created one operating 0:17:00.756 --> 0:17:03.196 the United States. You've got a handful of companies to 0:17:03.196 --> 0:17:07.836 control the entire thing. So what they've done as a result, 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:13.116 as situations I've described with the average new better, they've 0:17:13.156 --> 0:17:16.196 got one account maybe two of the most. Okay, if 0:17:16.196 --> 0:17:20.996 there's better numbers out there, they're completely oblivious to that. 0:17:21.676 --> 0:17:22.396 They have no. 0:17:24.276 --> 0:17:28.476 Clue about how the money line compares to the point spread. 0:17:29.596 --> 0:17:33.756 The other thing is a betting strategy, the importance of numbers. 0:17:33.836 --> 0:17:35.636 You know the value of three, the number of the 0:17:35.676 --> 0:17:39.596 value is seven, six, ten. Okay, some numbers are a 0:17:39.596 --> 0:17:42.276 lot more important than other numbers are. If you don't 0:17:42.356 --> 0:17:45.516 understand that when it comes to betting strategy, you know 0:17:46.196 --> 0:17:48.956 you could be making some huge mistakes. A lot of 0:17:48.996 --> 0:17:51.276 times you're better off betting on a money line than 0:17:51.316 --> 0:17:55.436 you are the point spread, because you know they offer 0:17:55.476 --> 0:17:58.716 money lines out there. Okay, let's say the line on 0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:02.276 the game I use three as the example is three. Well, 0:18:02.396 --> 0:18:04.716 if you're betting on the underdog, you may be able 0:18:04.716 --> 0:18:08.676 to take a money line price. This equivalent to taking 0:18:08.716 --> 0:18:10.596 three in a quarter, three and a third, or even 0:18:10.596 --> 0:18:13.196 three and a half sometimes, But if you don't know 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:16.156 how to compare those two the true value of those 0:18:18.316 --> 0:18:21.876 how would you know, right, Because there's there's no legitimate 0:18:21.996 --> 0:18:25.836 place that you can go to that's accurate. If you're 0:18:25.876 --> 0:18:27.476 not a handicapper, you're not anything. 0:18:28.556 --> 0:18:32.196 When you first meet Michael Kent, what you're bringing to 0:18:32.236 --> 0:18:35.716 the table is both access to markets and betting strategy. 0:18:36.516 --> 0:18:39.956 Access to market and betting strategy is correct because when 0:18:39.956 --> 0:18:43.116 it became the betting strategy, he was an office himself, 0:18:44.316 --> 0:18:48.436 and you know, the things, the things that I could 0:18:48.476 --> 0:18:51.796 do was you know, was not only the betting strategy, 0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:56.116 but I could bet you know, larger, much larger amounts 0:18:56.116 --> 0:18:58.036 of money than he could ever bet. 0:18:58.316 --> 0:19:00.516 But he had a superior ability to predict what was 0:19:00.516 --> 0:19:01.916 going to happen in the games. 0:19:01.876 --> 0:19:05.156 No question at the time, at the time I met him, 0:19:05.276 --> 0:19:06.476 and for a period. 0:19:06.156 --> 0:19:12.916 Of uh I would say four years, he was an 0:19:12.956 --> 0:19:13.876 illege of his own. 0:19:14.636 --> 0:19:16.476 You know, in your book, where it gets to me 0:19:16.716 --> 0:19:20.076 especially interesting in them in the insights that you all 0:19:20.156 --> 0:19:23.596 generate is when you're telling me things about the sport 0:19:24.196 --> 0:19:27.676 that I didn't appreciate that you know, for example, Josh Allen, 0:19:27.716 --> 0:19:30.236 Buffalo Bill's quarterback is better in warm weather than in 0:19:30.276 --> 0:19:34.236 cold weather, or Aaron Rodgers is the reverse. Was there 0:19:34.276 --> 0:19:36.956 a lot of that kind of stuff early on, like 0:19:37.356 --> 0:19:41.556 player tendencies, how teams performed in certain in different environments, 0:19:41.316 --> 0:19:43.596 the kind of this is the predictive stuff. 0:19:43.636 --> 0:19:47.756 It's just well, I've kind of generally I've known that 0:19:47.996 --> 0:19:51.756 since the early eighties. It's you know, it's all gotten 0:19:51.756 --> 0:19:55.076 better over the years, and that information is than a book, 0:19:55.596 --> 0:19:58.956 you know. Yeah, it goes back to the seventies. I mean, 0:19:59.116 --> 0:20:02.036 so you're talking about information that's been collected over a 0:20:02.036 --> 0:20:06.836 period of fifty years, and it's been as the world's changed, 0:20:06.996 --> 0:20:12.036 as players have changed, have changed, as stadiums have changed. 0:20:12.396 --> 0:20:13.956 That's all been refined accordingly. 0:20:16.356 --> 0:20:18.876 Another break here. When we come back, it'll be to 0:20:18.876 --> 0:20:32.916 find the FBI knocking on Billy Walters front door. I'm 0:20:32.916 --> 0:20:38.996 back with sports gambler. Billy Walters described for me, just 0:20:38.996 --> 0:20:42.076 pay me a picture of the difference between the illegal 0:20:42.156 --> 0:20:43.916 and the legal sports betting markets. 0:20:45.516 --> 0:20:48.356 Is there any difference, Yeah, there's a master difference. There 0:20:48.476 --> 0:20:50.876 was a master efference back in those days. The legal 0:20:51.516 --> 0:20:53.676 betting markets to Las Vegas, you could bet a lot 0:20:53.676 --> 0:20:55.276 more money in the early eighties and you can bet 0:20:55.316 --> 0:20:58.596 there today. Frankly, who you talk to in Las Vegas, 0:20:58.596 --> 0:21:00.636 they'll tell you it's been very bad for Las Vegas. 0:21:01.596 --> 0:21:04.596 You've got four or five companies have created a monopoly 0:21:04.596 --> 0:21:07.556 in Las Vegas. So in the early eighties, you had 0:21:07.676 --> 0:21:11.436 say thirty casinos and they all had sportsbooks, and you 0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:17.196 had thirty thirty different you know, business men entrepreneurs running them, 0:21:17.236 --> 0:21:20.756 and they were competing against each other. And today you've 0:21:20.796 --> 0:21:25.676 got four or five and they've got a monopoly. The 0:21:25.716 --> 0:21:32.276 illegal sports betting world. Up until things got regulated in 0:21:32.356 --> 0:21:35.676 other parts of the US, I would say you could 0:21:35.716 --> 0:21:38.516 probably bet twenty times as much money. 0:21:38.316 --> 0:21:41.556 As you could bet in Las Vegas. Oh yeah, maybe 0:21:41.596 --> 0:21:46.516 twenty five times back then. Yeah, And even today you 0:21:46.556 --> 0:21:49.516 could bet probably five times as much money and the 0:21:49.596 --> 0:21:52.716 illegal market as you could bet. You bet more than that. 0:21:52.756 --> 0:21:55.796 You can probably bet ten times morning and the illegal 0:21:55.876 --> 0:21:58.436 market than you could. You look at it, I mean 0:21:59.276 --> 0:22:02.916 so called legalized sports betting in the world. Today, you've 0:22:02.916 --> 0:22:08.476 got Fandel, You've got you've got Caesar's, You've got MGM, 0:22:08.556 --> 0:22:09.916 and you've got DraftKings. 0:22:10.076 --> 0:22:12.356 You got basically four of them to control the entire market. 0:22:13.396 --> 0:22:16.716 How did the FBI mistake. The Computer Group is a bookie. 0:22:18.036 --> 0:22:21.756 First of all, there never been any there never been 0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:26.796 any organized group of sports betters ever. Okay, So if 0:22:26.796 --> 0:22:28.836 you're an FBI agent, the only thing you've seen up 0:22:28.876 --> 0:22:32.916 on this point in time that the people that were 0:22:32.996 --> 0:22:37.436 organized were bookmakers and the mob. Okay, and and and 0:22:38.236 --> 0:22:41.916 you know major metropolitan cities, you know the bookmakers were, 0:22:42.356 --> 0:22:44.396 you know they were. Everybody says they were part of 0:22:44.396 --> 0:22:45.596 the mob. I can tell you what part of the 0:22:45.596 --> 0:22:47.316 mob they were. They were being shut down and they 0:22:47.356 --> 0:22:50.116 didn't pay them. Mob they kill them. So if you 0:22:50.156 --> 0:22:51.516 want to make them part of the mob, that makes 0:22:51.556 --> 0:22:55.196 them part of the mob. So Computer Group comes along 0:22:55.316 --> 0:22:58.596 and in Las Leg it's a time we probably had 0:22:58.596 --> 0:23:01.996 thirty thirty five people and we're betting millions of dollars 0:23:02.036 --> 0:23:05.956 on sports. And then on top of that, the guy 0:23:06.676 --> 0:23:08.796 was one of the original members of the Computer Group 0:23:09.356 --> 0:23:14.716 was Ivan Mendelein, and unbknownst to anyone in the group 0:23:14.756 --> 0:23:19.596 at the time, he was doing business with an organized 0:23:19.596 --> 0:23:24.676 crime figure, the guy named Dominic Spinelle and Ivan Mendelein 0:23:24.756 --> 0:23:27.476 had opened up a sports betting account at the Startust 0:23:27.476 --> 0:23:33.356 hotel in Dominic Spinelli's name and he was betting on 0:23:33.436 --> 0:23:34.756 sports on that account. 0:23:35.036 --> 0:23:35.876