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Speaker 1: It's time to break down the X on Giants Rewind

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Speaker 1: with Carl Banks, a New York Giants podcast. I'm John Schmill.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Carl Banks, of course,

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Speaker 1: here to break down the Giants and Lions. I wanna

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Speaker 1: remind you that if you're listening to this on giants

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Speaker 1: dot Com and the Giants Mobile app, we're also on

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Speaker 1: all your favorite podcast platforms. Make sure you subscribe, make

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Speaker 1: us part of your fee, make us one of your favorites,

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Speaker 1: and if you're an Apple podcast, leave a positive review.

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Speaker 1: All right, Carl with the Giants with a disappointing thirty

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Speaker 1: one to twenty six defeat in Detroit against the Lions.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the defense. We'll get to

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Speaker 1: the offense. Daniel Jones did some great things in that game,

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Speaker 1: but I think the defense was kind of the key

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Speaker 1: to this game. So I want to start there. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pose a very broad and simple question for

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Speaker 1: you and kind of let you run with it. It

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Speaker 1: seems when opposing teams really need a big play against

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Speaker 1: the Giants, whether it's a big play or a third

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Speaker 1: down play, there always seems to be somebody that's open. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like when a team needs a big play on third down,

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Speaker 1: there does seem to be someone open, uh and wide

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Speaker 1: open at that um, John, I think it's really a

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Speaker 1: function of communication on the field. It's also a function

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Speaker 1: of fundamentals, understanding route concepts, understanding how teams want to get,

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Speaker 1: how they want to attack your defense, and where you're vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: And you've got to do some self evaluation each week

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Speaker 1: to see how teams are attacking you. Um, even if

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Speaker 1: they haven't shown it, your next opponent hasn't shown it,

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Speaker 1: if another team has had success with it, you can

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Speaker 1: pretty much bet that it's going to show up in

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Speaker 1: some capacity before the game is over, with no doubt

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Speaker 1: about it. And let's just take for example, you talk

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Speaker 1: about execution versus scheme. Right, the first offensive touchdown score

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Speaker 1: by the Lions was that whole nine yard touchdown catch third.

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Speaker 1: I will double check the exact and distance it got

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Speaker 1: to put by a player in front of me. And

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Speaker 1: the frustrating thing it was start of fifteen and you

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Speaker 1: look at the defense and going into this game, what

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Speaker 1: do we know about the lines of Matthew Stafford. They

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Speaker 1: like to throw the ball down the field, right, So

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Speaker 1: you check the numbers here and in this game, the

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Speaker 1: Giants played because of that scheme. According to Pro Football Focus,

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Speaker 1: and these numbers could change when they do their overall review.

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Speaker 1: They played quarters in this game of the time. It

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Speaker 1: is a defense for the fans that don't know that

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Speaker 1: is a four deep defense. It's specifically designed to take

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Speaker 1: the big play away and the big over and they

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Speaker 1: called you know, the over is a deep crossing route

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Speaker 1: where it's not shallow. It starts literally on one side

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Speaker 1: of the numbers outside the numbers and finishes on the

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Speaker 1: opposite side of the field outside the numbers. It's an

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Speaker 1: over route and quarters is designed to take that away

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Speaker 1: and low and the hold on the hall catch for

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Speaker 1: a touchdown. It was a seven round. It was a

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Speaker 1: deep post cross and it looked like Michael Thomas supposed

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Speaker 1: to blame. But when you look at the tape, DeAndre

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Speaker 1: Baker had deep responsibility on the left sideline, took a

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Speaker 1: shallow He took a shallow guy who was running I

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Speaker 1: think a deep out near the sticks if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about that, um he took that where

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Speaker 1: he had Grand Haley right there and someone else right

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Speaker 1: there double team somebody. Yeah, well he tripled teams someone

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Speaker 1: you had two players there already, and he did not

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Speaker 1: sink back, and you know, it wasn't even a post.

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Speaker 1: It was beyond the post. That ball was caught on

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Speaker 1: the opposite side, outside the numbers. And if you're in quarters,

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Speaker 1: that ball you just sink back and that's either a

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Speaker 1: breakup or an interception. So again, it's literally designed to

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Speaker 1: stop that specific act. And again, when you are installing

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Speaker 1: these defenses, it's important players pay attention to why they're

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Speaker 1: in that defense is to prevent prevent a particular type

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Speaker 1: of route. Every defense has a purpose and you play

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Speaker 1: it in order to prevent certain types of place. So

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Speaker 1: if you're in cover four on the third and long,

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Speaker 1: the reason you are is to prevent the long on

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Speaker 1: third down, and you know, and so these are the

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Speaker 1: things that both players and coaches have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that guys are on the same page. But once they

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Speaker 1: install that, you've got to play the defense called because

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Speaker 1: there's a reason why they put you in that. And

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Speaker 1: this is where I think this defense is going to

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Speaker 1: continue to falter if they don't get these things corrected

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Speaker 1: and communicate with you. It's it is the fundamentals of

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Speaker 1: the defense that they're failing and it's one guy who

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Speaker 1: make everything look out of place. And I'll get to

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Speaker 1: the other big play. I'll hit on third downs next,

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Speaker 1: because that was another big issue six of nine in

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Speaker 1: the first half of the lines. But the other big

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Speaker 1: play was the throwback. They run the pitch play out

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Speaker 1: to the right to the rookie running back. He throws

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Speaker 1: it back to Stafford on the pitch Jabrol Peppers comes

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Speaker 1: out like shot, like a cannon goes after the running back.

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Speaker 1: After the game, Antombathy said, look, that's my responsibility to

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Speaker 1: have deep, have the deep part of the field on

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Speaker 1: that He literally Carl took about two or three steps

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Speaker 1: in and by the time he saw the running back

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Speaker 1: start to turn and throw it, Golladay already had a

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Speaker 1: couple of yards on him and he just doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to speed to catch up to him. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: he was back there, but like you said, he was

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Speaker 1: back there and out of position. And again it is

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Speaker 1: being disciplined. Um and defense is about doing the little things, John,

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Speaker 1: and attention to detail when you're a two win team

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Speaker 1: is even more paramount. You've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you over um execute, You've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: every little thing you do is correct so that you

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Speaker 1: can have give yourself a chance. Um, you're not good

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Speaker 1: enough to recover if you're out of position. You don't

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Speaker 1: have enough players who can compensate for one guy being

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Speaker 1: out of position. For instance, if you've got a guy

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Speaker 1: to position in your pass rush was just that good

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Speaker 1: in the quarterback never got a chance to get to

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Speaker 1: that open guy. They don't have that. They need every

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Speaker 1: guy doing his job and executing beyond what's called for.

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Speaker 1: And that process has forced bet You to go to

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Speaker 1: more of a zone base defense. And we saw him

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Speaker 1: in Arizona Crawl when he had the personnel and plots,

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Speaker 1: he ran a lot of man. When you have Patrick Peterson,

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Speaker 1: you want to man. That's how it goes. So he's

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Speaker 1: had to adjust and I think we're seeing that pop

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Speaker 1: up on some of these third downs now because against

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Speaker 1: the lines, I mentioned six of nine the first half

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Speaker 1: of the lines, and by the way, these are at shorts.

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Speaker 1: They converted the third and seven, they converted the third

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Speaker 1: and eight, they converted the third and fifteen, a third

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Speaker 1: and seven and a third and nine, and they all

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Speaker 1: went way beyond the required yardage. It wasn't thirty nine,

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Speaker 1: they got ten. These weren't at the sticks now right,

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Speaker 1: third and nine they've got like eighteen. You know, they

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Speaker 1: just have to be good job. Yeah, A look, this

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Speaker 1: is I can't emphasize it enough. Players have to do

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Speaker 1: a better job of understanding why they're in certain defenses.

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Speaker 1: Coaches have to do a better job of articulating why

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Speaker 1: you're in this defense and why it's important that you

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Speaker 1: do X, Y, and Z. I don't have the luxury

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Speaker 1: of sitting in the meeting room, so I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you which part is not happening at this moment, but

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Speaker 1: I can tell you it is very important going forward.

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Speaker 1: Player knows what's expected and coach communicates what those expectations are. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking of this from a layman perspective, and you,

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Speaker 1: as a former linebacker, imagine it. It probably drives you

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Speaker 1: nuts because I don't even think this is just a

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Speaker 1: giant sessue. I think this isn't across the league issue

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Speaker 1: when teams have to play these zone defenses right because

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Speaker 1: a lot of the rules, it's hard to play man

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Speaker 1: now a lot of the time except for the teams

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Speaker 1: that have the cover guys to do it, and these

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Speaker 1: linebackers and sometimes either of a safety is playing down

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Speaker 1: or slot corner. They play that shorter, shallow zone right,

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Speaker 1: So then you have the safeties deep and all teams

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Speaker 1: do is attack the area between the shallow zone and

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Speaker 1: the deep safeties with crosses and things like that. Is

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Speaker 1: this just a matter of those guys in the shallow

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Speaker 1: zones not getting the depth? Do they not anticipate routes

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Speaker 1: the right way? What's the problem around the league with

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Speaker 1: guys not being able to defend in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the field. Well, John, it's simple, Um, you gotta teach

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Speaker 1: how to play. Zone defense is not just a matter

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Speaker 1: if you dropped to an area and read the quarterback. Um.

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Speaker 1: If one thing I've learned throughout my career here is

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Speaker 1: that dropping back, just reading the quarterback, the ball's gone

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Speaker 1: by the time you read where the ball is going.

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Speaker 1: If it left the quarterback's hand and you're just reacting,

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Speaker 1: the ball is gone. Brett Farve was a guy who

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Speaker 1: could eat a zone defense up if you didn't apply,

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Speaker 1: um what we call pattern read concepts or pattern matching

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Speaker 1: concepts into your zone. UM meaning, if you've got you know,

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Speaker 1: go and over, if you've got two crossing routes, and

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Speaker 1: you let the shallow go to the guy going you know,

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Speaker 1: on the far side of your zone, and someone else

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Speaker 1: has to drop back to take the deep CARSS or.

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Speaker 1: But pattern reading means there are complimentary routes that are

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Speaker 1: designed to beat you out of your zone or to

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Speaker 1: get you out of place. So if you know what

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Speaker 1: type of routes are coming, it's just like in cover four,

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Speaker 1: you've got to defend against a deep over right, so

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Speaker 1: you your corner has to sink back and just wait

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Speaker 1: for a deep over. Don't worry about anything shallow, because

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Speaker 1: you've got a linebacker in the flat in the safety

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Speaker 1: to take that, or or a money backer to take that.

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Speaker 1: So UM pattern matching is, you know, uh running back

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Speaker 1: that goes to the flat to pull somebody out of

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Speaker 1: a zone so that an incut can go right where

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Speaker 1: the linebacker vacated. You know, there are so many things

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Speaker 1: that UM teams do to try to attack your zone,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to know how they want to attack you.

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Speaker 1: So teaching zone defense has to have some man principles

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Speaker 1: to it UM, but you also your players have to

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Speaker 1: learn how teams want to attack cover too. If you're

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Speaker 1: in cover two, the steam route is the most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: area of the field because it puts too much pressure

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Speaker 1: on a safety. That's why you have to reroute anything

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Speaker 1: going up the scene. You got to be able to

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Speaker 1: teach it. Players got to understand why they're being asked

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Speaker 1: asked to do certain things. All right, let's switch to

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Speaker 1: the side of the ball. The Giant's offense the game

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Speaker 1: three or just seven the yards pretty good, not fantastic,

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Speaker 1: but good. Daniel Jones had the early turnover. After the game,

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Speaker 1: say Kwon Barkley said that was his responsibility to get

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Speaker 1: that blitzer up the middle. He actually had a couple

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Speaker 1: of past protection issues later in the game too. Uh,

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Speaker 1: something he's gonna have to work on, um. But beyond

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Speaker 1: that four touchdowns, wasn't responsible for any other turnovers. He

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Speaker 1: did fumble a ball on a blitz, but he recovered

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Speaker 1: himself save the play. And you knew coming in the

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Speaker 1: line is gonna play a lot of man to man, right,

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Speaker 1: They played a lot of man to man, and I

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Speaker 1: thought Jones did a great job of picking the matchup

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Speaker 1: he liked and just trusting his receiver to go and

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Speaker 1: make up play, whether it was slate and or cheer.

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Speaker 1: So here's the danger that defensive coordinators don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know that they're in is that there are predetermined

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Speaker 1: matchup issues in man coverage, and what they want you

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Speaker 1: to do is be afraid that, um, your quarterback won't

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Speaker 1: have time. But you can line up. If you go

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Speaker 1: for a wide receiver in any iteration personnel group, you

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Speaker 1: can pretty much determine who you want to go after.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, their top cornerback didn't playing this game, right,

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Speaker 1: so you got linebackers on backs, and you got a

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Speaker 1: back who can really play. So the linebacker every time

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Speaker 1: they call man coverage, the linebacker who has se Kwan Barkley,

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Speaker 1: or the linebacker or the safety who has to guard

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Speaker 1: Evan Ingram, it's saying, I hope they don't go to

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Speaker 1: this guy. I hope they don't go to this guy.

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Speaker 1: And if you're an offensive coordinator and you're a quarterback,

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Speaker 1: you look at that and you say, Okay, we're gonna,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna, We're gonna go four wide receiver would have

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Speaker 1: put possible five. We're gonna see who has our back,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna see who as a tight end, and that's

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Speaker 1: who we're going after. And they did it a few times.

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Speaker 1: With great success. And then one of the beautiful things

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Speaker 1: I like about with coach Shermer does he doesn't shy

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Speaker 1: away from the deep ball even if you have a

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Speaker 1: good cornerback, because the cornerback can play it perfect. Three

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Speaker 1: out of four times is the fourth time in seven

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Speaker 1: count one catch equals seven, which, by the way, so

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Speaker 1: the other way, when Kenny Golladay made a couple of

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Speaker 1: million nice plays on Baker, when Baker recovered them, well

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Speaker 1: a few plays before, yeah, so one, you know you

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Speaker 1: can cover good, but one equal seven, so all you

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Speaker 1: need is one. Yeah, And look they were they pushed

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Speaker 1: down the field, they made some big plays, Carl. But

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Speaker 1: then again the fourth quarter, there were a few times

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Speaker 1: when they were still in the game, the Giants got

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Speaker 1: the ball back and I thought this was probably the

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Speaker 1: key possession in the game. In the fourth quarter. The

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Speaker 1: defense did a good job. They forced I think it

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Speaker 1: might have been their only three and out of the game.

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Speaker 1: And the Giants get the ball back. It's twenty four nineteen.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is still in the third quarter. I

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Speaker 1: take it back. So the Giants get the ball back

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Speaker 1: a nineteen with three or eight to play in the

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Speaker 1: third quarter, and they drive down, they run that flee

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Speaker 1: flicker play they have take for a fourteen yard game.

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Speaker 1: Nate Solder got a little over aggressive selling the run.

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Speaker 1: Fake Flowers gets around them, Solder falls. Instead of letting

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Speaker 1: Flowers go after the quarterback, Solder holds them. It puts

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Speaker 1: them into a first and twenty and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, that drive gets so short circuited and then

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Speaker 1: the Lions score on their next possession. Yeah, the plays

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Speaker 1: that you can't afford, like when you need plays and

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Speaker 1: you have it drawn up just right. This is what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. The attention to detail. When you've got

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Speaker 1: to say to yourself, Okay, we got a flee flicker.

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Speaker 1: I may have to block a little longer, but the

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Speaker 1: one thing I can't do is hold on this play

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Speaker 1: or get a penalty. And when you're under the rest,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the last thing you think of is the one

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Speaker 1: thing that you can't do. And so you, just like

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Speaker 1: you said, you get over aggressive, thinking, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: the quarterback is gonna get hit. Well, sometimes you gotta

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Speaker 1: trust that the ball is gonna be out even if

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Speaker 1: you get beat, as opposed to especially on a play

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Speaker 1: that you need that's a that's a play that changed

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Speaker 1: that changed feel position for them, and it just didn't

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Speaker 1: didn't work out for him. And then late in the

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Speaker 1: game they had a couple of red zone opportunities, couldn't

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Speaker 1: get points when the game was still in doubt. Uh

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Speaker 1: Alja Rosas has mixed. Extra point ended up being critical

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Speaker 1: in this game, and a lot of people complaining, oh,

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Speaker 1: don't go for two in the third quarter, at least

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Speaker 1: the bottom of one. You're gonna have to go for

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Speaker 1: two eventually anyway. And by the way, the play design

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Speaker 1: was good. Slayton was open, Jonster low Yeah. And and

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Speaker 1: see that's the thing that people don't really realize is

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Speaker 1: that the execution is just as important as the decision

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Speaker 1: to make that to make that call, so he decided

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Speaker 1: to go for it. The execution was poor, The play

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Speaker 1: was available to them, it was poorly executed. So if

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Speaker 1: they missed it in the fourth quarter or the third

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Speaker 1: quarter when the matter. The one thing I will say

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Speaker 1: in this game when I was surprised by was Barkley's

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Speaker 1: inability to get going in the run game. The lines

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Speaker 1: run defense was poor heading into this game. Uh, he

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Speaker 1: only a nineteen character or sixty four yards. He could

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Speaker 1: have had the seam wrap. He could have had a

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Speaker 1: weel out for a touchdown. Jones do it at a bounds.

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Speaker 1: He should have had that angle route for a touchdown.

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Speaker 1: He stumbles on the turf monster, can't finish, and then

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Speaker 1: we talk about the past protection issue. So Barkley still

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Speaker 1: made some spectacular but he broke three tackles on that

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Speaker 1: one pass and went for fifteen yards. But when you're

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Speaker 1: a team like the Giants, call and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a good way to sum it up right now, there

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Speaker 1: is no margin forever for this team. You miss one

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Speaker 1: or two plays over the course of the game, which

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Speaker 1: every team does, you just paid for it. When you're

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Speaker 1: not very good, Bingo. You cannot recover when you're not

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Speaker 1: very good because you don't know how. You haven't figured

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Speaker 1: that out yet. How do you figure that out? You

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Speaker 1: have to over execute its attention to detail, John, where

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Speaker 1: you know you're not very good and you know you

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Speaker 1: can't overcome certain things because you don't have players that

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Speaker 1: are playing above the numbers. Everybody plays at the numbers.

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Speaker 1: So you have to do your job, um and in

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Speaker 1: order to do that, no mistakes, no mental errors, and

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Speaker 1: you're running act. He's your best player. Sometimes he has

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Speaker 1: to take what's there and not try to create, because

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Speaker 1: that a few times in the game eliminated or preventing

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Speaker 1: him from getting more yards if he just stays with

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Speaker 1: the play. That's called the final two questions Number one.

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Speaker 1: There was talk of a players only meeting after the game.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anyth about players only means. I haven't

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Speaker 1: been a one. You have tell me about players only

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Speaker 1: meetings and what this means of anything. The fact that

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Speaker 1: it was announced not a good sign. It's not a

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Speaker 1: good sign. Um, So I I can't imagine what's gonna

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Speaker 1: go on in that meeting. Happens in players only meeting? Well,

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Speaker 1: if you have to, well maybe you'll read about it

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Speaker 1: in the newspaper. UM player only meetings or just that. Um,

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Speaker 1: they address issues, UM, is it accountability, that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: multitude of things. But it's sometimes you know, winning teams

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Speaker 1: do them too, just to stay on track. UM. Teams

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Speaker 1: that announced them are just they defeat the purpose because

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Speaker 1: now it's defeating frenzy for someone to find one little

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Speaker 1: tidbit of information that that came out of that meeting.

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Speaker 1: But most of those meetings that I've ever been involved

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Speaker 1: with or called myself. Um, no one knew about them,

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Speaker 1: and if it got out, the person that leaked it

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Speaker 1: was under threat of flocking. They had an agenda. No, no,

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Speaker 1: they would be flogged, you know, because you just it

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Speaker 1: just you know what if your feelings got hurt in

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Speaker 1: the meeting, you sucked it up when you walked out

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Speaker 1: of that meeting. You never went in leaked anything. So um,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that they're having one, I guess it's positive.

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Speaker 1: What the productivity of that meeting will be, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they're going to address, but I

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Speaker 1: would just suggest that nothing that's discussing that meeting comes out.

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Speaker 1: They have to show that that meeting was productive in

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Speaker 1: their play. And I know this is a players think

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Speaker 1: about it, but we're NBA guys, and you know they

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Speaker 1: always like to fire the coach in the NBA right

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Speaker 1: before a game against the bad opponents so the new

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Speaker 1: coach would come out with a win. I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 1: it's not a great time to go have this player's

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Speaker 1: only meeting. And again, I don't report to think about

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Speaker 1: it because it doesn't get it easier with the Cowboys

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Speaker 1: coming it down. It really doesn't. But that might be

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Speaker 1: the time that you say, Okay, let's go out and

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Speaker 1: show that we're capable. You know. Um, the Cowboys have

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Speaker 1: lost some games to some teams, some teams that they

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Speaker 1: should have beaten. Um, you've got to go out and

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Speaker 1: show and make it very difficult for a good team

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Speaker 1: to beat you. And the only way you'd make it

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Speaker 1: difficult for them to beat you is if you do

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Speaker 1: everything right. UM. I said it in the first matchup

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Speaker 1: that they played them. If you're punching up in weight class,

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Speaker 1: you better be precise with every punch. And um, that's

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Speaker 1: what the Giants are, whether they're playing a better team

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Speaker 1: or a team that they're equal to. Um, they've got

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Speaker 1: to be very precise with everything they do. Great stuff,

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Speaker 1: We appreciate the time as always. That's Giants really with

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Speaker 1: Carl Banks. We'll be with you next week after Giants

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Speaker 1: and Cowboys see you next time, Audios. Thank you, gl