WEBVTT - Loudon Wainwright III 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.436 --> 0:00:23.236 In twenty twenty two, at seventy five years old, loud 0:00:23.276 --> 0:00:27.116 and Wainwright the Third released Lifetime Achievement, an aptly titled 0:00:27.156 --> 0:00:30.236 album from a songwriter whose debut came more than fifty 0:00:30.356 --> 0:00:34.276 years earlier. Over the decades, Loudan has built a reputation 0:00:34.396 --> 0:00:38.036 for his confessional style, writing candidly about the struggles and 0:00:38.076 --> 0:00:41.996 absurdities of family life, failed relationships, and the scars of 0:00:41.996 --> 0:00:46.116 parental abandonment. While his subject matter can be heavy, he 0:00:46.196 --> 0:00:49.476 often balances it with wit and humor. You'll hear that 0:00:49.516 --> 0:00:52.276 today when he performs Famvack and Back in Your Town 0:00:52.396 --> 0:00:56.316 from Lifetime Achievement. In this conversation with Bruce Headlam, Louden 0:00:56.396 --> 0:00:58.916 reflects on how he leaned into his upper class upbringing, 0:00:58.996 --> 0:01:02.116 when he first began performing professionally, what it was like 0:01:02.196 --> 0:01:05.516 collaborating with guitar virtuoso Richard Thompson in the eighties, and 0:01:05.596 --> 0:01:08.556 the magical feeling of stepping on stage for his very 0:01:08.596 --> 0:01:16.316 first time. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 0:01:21.116 --> 0:01:23.836 Here's Bruce Headlam with loud and Wainwright the Third. 0:01:45.196 --> 0:01:47.316 I need a family vacation. 0:01:48.876 --> 0:01:52.596 I made a family vacation alone. 0:01:53.836 --> 0:01:58.956 I'm gonna pack up the card of the Viking, the kayak, 0:01:59.756 --> 0:02:01.836 leave the fucking family. 0:02:01.596 --> 0:02:02.756 And all. 0:02:04.356 --> 0:02:10.476 Vacation away from the family, Vacation. 0:02:10.316 --> 0:02:11.796 Away from the fray. 0:02:14.076 --> 0:02:19.916 When it comes to your so cold loved ones, sometimes 0:02:19.916 --> 0:02:23.556 you gotta get away. 0:02:24.756 --> 0:02:30.036 Maybe I'll go to the mountains, or else I'll get 0:02:30.156 --> 0:02:31.316 down to the shore. 0:02:33.196 --> 0:02:33.436 Yeah. 0:02:33.796 --> 0:02:37.916 I guess there's a chance I might miss my people, 0:02:38.356 --> 0:02:43.636 but right now I can't stand them no more. When 0:02:43.756 --> 0:02:50.276 I'm barbecue in there on my webber, I might be focused. 0:02:49.676 --> 0:02:50.916 On my family. 0:02:53.396 --> 0:02:58.276 Then I'll throw down some hot dogs, burgers, and some chicken. 0:02:58.756 --> 0:03:10.036 I'll burn them all in effigy. 0:03:13.356 --> 0:03:18.476 When I get back from my family vacation, tan. 0:03:18.476 --> 0:03:21.236 And relaxed will be the shaping them in. 0:03:23.076 --> 0:03:23.116 You. 0:03:23.316 --> 0:03:28.796 I'll be patient and love and not dimensioned detached when 0:03:28.876 --> 0:03:30.356 I'm dealing with. 0:03:30.076 --> 0:03:36.716 My kids and my kids, we all need a family vacation. 0:03:38.316 --> 0:03:44.436 You got to keep the ashpot cut Bay Tall Story 0:03:44.716 --> 0:03:47.396 got it right when he wrote each. 0:03:47.316 --> 0:03:57.756 Unhappy family, it's unhappy in it's own way. 0:03:58.516 --> 0:04:10.636 Oh, I ran away from my parents, Still run away 0:04:10.956 --> 0:04:12.076 from my kids. 0:04:13.836 --> 0:04:18.436 As for brother and sister, we're playing twister. 0:04:19.116 --> 0:04:20.516 That's the cover up. 0:04:21.356 --> 0:04:25.156 Keep ourselves hid from each other. 0:04:28.676 --> 0:04:30.836 I need a family vacation. 0:04:32.556 --> 0:04:35.476 My family needs a vacation from me. 0:04:37.676 --> 0:04:43.076 Because you're dearest and nearest. They're the most dangerous. 0:04:43.476 --> 0:04:48.076 They're the ones that make you crave. 0:04:50.516 --> 0:04:52.996 Let's rite your dearest. 0:04:52.476 --> 0:04:55.796 And nearest, they're the most dangerous. 0:04:56.116 --> 0:05:06.116 They're the ones that make you fucking crazy. 0:05:07.636 --> 0:05:15.436 Sean Paul Sartres said it hell is other people. 0:05:25.196 --> 0:05:29.596 All right, you got Tolstoy, Sartra and a Yiddish expression. 0:05:30.596 --> 0:05:35.316 Sound man, you really pack it in. We don't have 0:05:35.356 --> 0:05:37.796 to be too official off the top, but we are 0:05:37.836 --> 0:05:40.396 here with Loud and Wayne right the third. Do you 0:05:40.436 --> 0:05:42.276 still go by Loud and Wayne right the third? 0:05:42.436 --> 0:05:44.356 I answer to Loud and Wayne right the third, but 0:05:44.396 --> 0:05:48.396 I'll also answer to Loudie or loudun or. 0:05:48.476 --> 0:05:50.756 Well, we're gonna use Loud and Wayne right the third. 0:05:51.036 --> 0:05:53.436 I think it's more official. And we're talking about your 0:05:53.476 --> 0:05:57.276 new album, Lifetime Achievement. Do you go into every album 0:05:57.316 --> 0:05:59.756 with a particular idea of something you want to do? 0:06:00.236 --> 0:06:03.436 Was there an idea or something that motivated this album? 0:06:04.316 --> 0:06:04.516 No? 0:06:04.716 --> 0:06:06.836 I what I do is I write these songs. 0:06:06.876 --> 0:06:09.036 You know, I'm trying to write songs, and then when 0:06:09.236 --> 0:06:12.436 I gather together, I'm always thinking when is it going 0:06:12.476 --> 0:06:13.996 to be time to make a record. This is the 0:06:14.036 --> 0:06:18.556 first studio record that I've made, I think, since twenty fourteen. 0:06:20.036 --> 0:06:22.116 So you gather a bunch, I gather a bunch of 0:06:22.156 --> 0:06:25.396 songs together. A lot of the songs are on topics 0:06:25.396 --> 0:06:30.596 that I've explored before in songs, But it's you kind 0:06:30.596 --> 0:06:33.876 of think, is this enough material to make a record? 0:06:33.916 --> 0:06:35.516 And then what kind of a record do I want 0:06:35.516 --> 0:06:38.076 to make? But I don't think I'm going to make 0:06:38.116 --> 0:06:43.436 a record about family alienation and the pandemic. 0:06:43.716 --> 0:06:44.796 Okay, here we go. 0:06:44.996 --> 0:06:48.196 It didn't really work that way, although the record is 0:06:48.316 --> 0:06:50.476 kind of about that too. 0:06:50.916 --> 0:06:54.396 Now You've got a song called how Old is seventy five? Yeah, 0:06:54.436 --> 0:06:56.396 and you know, some of the reviews have been, you know, 0:06:57.236 --> 0:07:01.676 your winter album looking back with remorse and loss. I 0:07:01.676 --> 0:07:03.436 didn't get that at all. I found this like a 0:07:03.596 --> 0:07:09.036 very upbeat, optimistic album, particularly from someone who's known for 0:07:09.236 --> 0:07:15.276 or confessional song and self lacerating wit songs that cut 0:07:15.316 --> 0:07:18.996 to the bone. This did not seem an album that 0:07:19.156 --> 0:07:23.236 is where you're overwhelmed by past failures. This seemed you're 0:07:23.476 --> 0:07:24.916 very much in the moment. 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:29.196 Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good these days, and the song's 0:07:30.436 --> 0:07:33.956 death is referenced in the song in the album, as 0:07:34.036 --> 0:07:36.796 is aging and diminishment. 0:07:37.036 --> 0:07:40.396 To be fair, you've been talking about those since you 0:07:40.436 --> 0:07:40.876 were thirty. 0:07:40.956 --> 0:07:43.796 Yeah, But the first line in my first song on 0:07:43.836 --> 0:07:46.436 my first record was in Delaware when I was younger. 0:07:46.836 --> 0:07:51.036 So I've been obsessed with this thing and now it's 0:07:51.156 --> 0:07:54.996 kind of is here. But no, I don't think it's 0:07:54.996 --> 0:07:56.356 a downer this record. 0:07:56.476 --> 0:07:57.836 We tried to be careful about that. 0:07:58.756 --> 0:08:01.396 In the first song, there's a great line, I want 0:08:01.436 --> 0:08:04.436 to talk the truth about the fountain of youth to 0:08:04.476 --> 0:08:06.716 our eager audience out there. So what's the truth about 0:08:06.756 --> 0:08:07.476 the fountain of youth? 0:08:07.556 --> 0:08:09.156 Well, I think the line is I want to I 0:08:10.396 --> 0:08:12.836 want to tell the truth and find the fountain of you. 0:08:12.996 --> 0:08:13.756 Oh okay. 0:08:14.396 --> 0:08:16.596 That's another song that just talks about what I've been 0:08:16.636 --> 0:08:18.716 doing all this time. It's been you know, I've been 0:08:18.916 --> 0:08:24.996 making records for fifty plus years and wondering how much 0:08:25.036 --> 0:08:27.596 longer it can go on. But at the moment it's 0:08:27.636 --> 0:08:30.356 feeling could go on. I think I'm going to make 0:08:30.356 --> 0:08:32.356 it to my seventy sixth birthday. 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:35.356 I don't think anybody's written as many songs about family 0:08:35.996 --> 0:08:40.156 as you have, or certainly as many by win that competition, 0:08:40.196 --> 0:08:43.636 You win that competition. Many many great songs, you know, 0:08:43.676 --> 0:08:48.396 your Mother and I and Lullaby The Days We Die, Yeah, 0:08:48.556 --> 0:08:52.916 hitting you, hitting you when you leave? There are a lot. 0:08:53.356 --> 0:08:57.956 Are you conscious when you're writing the songs? Are you 0:08:58.076 --> 0:09:02.676 conscious of other people's reactions, your family's reactions. 0:09:03.196 --> 0:09:07.276 Kind of like, oh, he's gonna hate this one. 0:09:08.196 --> 0:09:09.476 Well, I'm aware of it. 0:09:09.556 --> 0:09:11.316 Yes, So I'm conscious of it certainly. 0:09:11.436 --> 0:09:11.676 Yeah. 0:09:11.716 --> 0:09:13.756 I mean, you know, but it's it is as you say, 0:09:13.796 --> 0:09:16.796 it's it's I've been doing it for a long long time. 0:09:16.876 --> 0:09:20.116 It's my it's the waterfront I cover, you know, I 0:09:20.196 --> 0:09:21.396 want one of the big ones. 0:09:22.356 --> 0:09:22.796 Certainly. 0:09:22.916 --> 0:09:26.156 You know, we've had some tense Thanksgiving dinners over the years, 0:09:26.876 --> 0:09:31.236 but I think my family, uh has come to expect this, 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:35.356 and the members of my family, uh, you know, three 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:40.036 out of my four kids are songwriters, and my my 0:09:40.236 --> 0:09:44.116 other daughter is a is A is a wonderful prose writer. 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:49.116 And they they've all written about me and referenced me 0:09:49.356 --> 0:09:55.076 and talked about their take on the whole thing. So 0:09:55.116 --> 0:09:57.956 it's it's it's it's just part of the whole deal. 0:09:58.276 --> 0:10:00.796 And uh, I feel okay about it now. 0:10:00.836 --> 0:10:03.796 Growing up, it seemed to me that you wanted to 0:10:03.836 --> 0:10:06.716 be a performer. You went to acting school. 0:10:06.956 --> 0:10:07.196 Yeah. 0:10:07.396 --> 0:10:10.076 Now you did play guitar, starting quite young, I think. 0:10:10.156 --> 0:10:12.156 Did your dad give you a guitar that? 0:10:12.276 --> 0:10:16.876 Yeah, my dad, who was a journalist for Life magazine, 0:10:17.036 --> 0:10:19.796 He also loved music, and he had a friend in 0:10:19.836 --> 0:10:24.116 the nineteen fifties quite a well known songwriter and singer 0:10:24.196 --> 0:10:29.396 called Terry Gilksson. He wrote, you know, memories are made 0:10:29.396 --> 0:10:33.156 of this, that big Dean Martin head and other things. 0:10:33.196 --> 0:10:35.556 But he was a drinking buddy of my dad's. He 0:10:35.596 --> 0:10:38.996 gave my dad a nylon string, beautiful little Mexican guitar, 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:42.396 and then my dad bequeathed it to me. So that 0:10:42.476 --> 0:10:44.196 was my actual first guitar. Got it when I was 0:10:44.236 --> 0:10:44.996 about thirteen. 0:10:46.076 --> 0:10:47.996 And did you immediately take to folk music? 0:10:49.436 --> 0:10:52.556 You know in the early sixties, you know, and the 0:10:52.596 --> 0:10:55.996 folk boom happened. You know, I saw people like Ramblin, 0:10:56.076 --> 0:10:59.076 Jack Elliott and Pat Sky and Dave van Ron and 0:10:59.156 --> 0:11:02.836 of course Bob Dylan who were playing steel string guitars 0:11:02.876 --> 0:11:06.396 and at the Newport Folk Festival and stuff. Then I 0:11:06.436 --> 0:11:10.076 still hadn't written anything myself, but I I got myself 0:11:10.636 --> 0:11:14.036 a Martin Dreadnought and you know, started to emulate those 0:11:14.076 --> 0:11:16.596 guys who were all just a few years older than me. 0:11:16.756 --> 0:11:20.596 Actually right, I mean Jack Elliott's not a few years 0:11:20.636 --> 0:11:22.956 older than me. He's in his nineties. But yeah, he 0:11:23.076 --> 0:11:26.316 sure was always springy and youthful. 0:11:27.236 --> 0:11:29.276 So it was songwriting just a way to get you 0:11:29.356 --> 0:11:30.076 up on stage. 0:11:31.516 --> 0:11:33.436 I mean I wanted to be on stage ever since 0:11:33.476 --> 0:11:35.196 I was seven, you know, and I was showing off 0:11:35.236 --> 0:11:37.996 from my parents and stuff. But when I got on 0:11:38.036 --> 0:11:40.876 stage with a guitar, it's something seemed to click, and 0:11:41.356 --> 0:11:42.956 I was off and running, I suppose. 0:11:43.436 --> 0:11:46.236 But you didn't emulate those guys. You didn't try to 0:11:46.276 --> 0:11:49.316 be a beatnik. No, you were out there in like 0:11:49.356 --> 0:11:50.596 a Brooks Brothers se right. 0:11:51.316 --> 0:11:53.196 You know, you have to figure out a way to 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:57.556 be noticed in the world, and in show. 0:11:57.356 --> 0:11:58.476 Business in particular. 0:11:58.556 --> 0:12:02.636 I'd say, So, I wore what I wore in boarding school, 0:12:03.116 --> 0:12:08.876 you know, a Books Brothers blazer and gray flannel pants, 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.716 bell bottoms. I had short hair on my first couple 0:12:11.756 --> 0:12:16.036 of albums. Yeah, that was the look that I created 0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:19.636 to separate me from the pack, and it worked kind of. 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:22.076 Yeah, did you worry? People would say, why do we 0:12:22.076 --> 0:12:24.596 want to listen to this kid from a private school 0:12:24.636 --> 0:12:26.116 in Westchester. 0:12:26.596 --> 0:12:28.876 I didn't worry about it. I understood that I had 0:12:28.876 --> 0:12:30.636 to write about I mean, I wasn't going to write 0:12:30.636 --> 0:12:35.036 about writing being a hobo on the rails, or like 0:12:35.116 --> 0:12:39.356 Jack Elliott, you know, invent myself into something that I wasn't. 0:12:39.436 --> 0:12:41.516 I decided to more or less take what I was, 0:12:42.116 --> 0:12:45.036 which was a guy that grew up in Westchester and 0:12:45.076 --> 0:12:49.316 went to boarding school, and you know, emphasize it and 0:12:49.796 --> 0:12:53.836 write about it. And then when I got married, I 0:12:53.876 --> 0:12:57.236 wrote about that. And you know, I've just been writing 0:12:57.276 --> 0:13:00.196 about my swing in life all this time. 0:13:01.596 --> 0:13:06.196 One thing that comes through in your autobiography Liner Notes, 0:13:06.196 --> 0:13:08.716 which I'm going to recommend everybody because it's a wonderful book, 0:13:09.476 --> 0:13:13.356 is how competitive you were. I mean, you were a 0:13:13.356 --> 0:13:15.836 big swimmer, so I think maybe some of that comes 0:13:15.876 --> 0:13:20.796 from sports, but you were competitive with everybody. You say, 0:13:20.796 --> 0:13:23.316 at some point when somebody else gets trashed, you feel 0:13:23.316 --> 0:13:25.836 a little bit better. I mean another singer, I don't 0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:28.516 mean just a person walking down the street. Where does 0:13:28.556 --> 0:13:29.956 that competition come from? 0:13:30.956 --> 0:13:34.996 Well, my father, you know, the aforementioned father was was 0:13:35.356 --> 0:13:42.076 successful in the world of journalism, and and and he 0:13:42.156 --> 0:13:46.116 was competitive, And you know, I don't want to blame 0:13:46.156 --> 0:13:47.076 it on my parents. 0:13:47.156 --> 0:13:47.676 I mean, I. 0:13:50.076 --> 0:13:55.356 Yeah, this need to achieve or succeed is in me, 0:13:55.756 --> 0:13:58.276 you know. And and as far as my you know, 0:13:58.276 --> 0:14:00.196 people would say, boy, it must be great when you 0:14:00.236 --> 0:14:03.476 and Steve Goodman and John Prine and Leo Kotkey can 0:14:03.516 --> 0:14:06.636 all go out and you know, have a cocktail or something, 0:14:06.716 --> 0:14:08.676 and I mean, we would do that and. 0:14:08.836 --> 0:14:09.876 That's all and stuff. 0:14:09.916 --> 0:14:13.036 But I don't know about them, but I was always 0:14:13.116 --> 0:14:16.676 thinking does he sell more records than me? And is 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:20.796 that song better than my song? And uh, you know, 0:14:21.036 --> 0:14:23.876 I I'm I'm not happy to admit it. I'm I'm 0:14:23.916 --> 0:14:26.556 ashamed to to admit it. But I do have a 0:14:26.596 --> 0:14:27.596 competitive streak. 0:14:27.836 --> 0:14:28.756 It's not a bad thing. 0:14:28.836 --> 0:14:33.156 It it spurs you on, you know, to to do 0:14:33.236 --> 0:14:37.036 the best work that you can, you know, and uh, 0:14:37.276 --> 0:14:40.476 you know, I'm again I'm not I'm not proud of 0:14:40.516 --> 0:14:44.516 it necessarily, but it's an engine. It provides you with 0:14:44.556 --> 0:14:45.836 an engine. 0:14:46.116 --> 0:14:49.676 And uh, but it it's it's. 0:14:49.116 --> 0:14:51.476 It's it's murder on your family life and it leads 0:14:51.556 --> 0:14:55.556 to isolation and depression. So I would not advise being 0:14:55.596 --> 0:14:57.356 competitive danger the kids out there. 0:14:57.956 --> 0:15:00.676 Yeah, yeah, stay in school, don't be too competitive. 0:15:00.756 --> 0:15:00.996 Yeah. 0:15:01.316 --> 0:15:05.196 You in your autobiography, I'm remembering now you put your 0:15:05.236 --> 0:15:09.596 finger on I think one of the most terrifying moments 0:15:10.516 --> 0:15:15.236 in documentary film. And you talk about it, and it's 0:15:15.276 --> 0:15:16.236 in Don't Look Back. 0:15:16.356 --> 0:15:20.156 Yeah, Dylan documented, Yeah, yeah, Oh that's a great moment. 0:15:20.476 --> 0:15:25.516 Uh and and and scary too. They're in London, I guess, 0:15:25.596 --> 0:15:28.636 and they're in a hotel room and Dylan is there, 0:15:28.916 --> 0:15:32.196 you know, at the height of you know, his whole thing. 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:36.716 Bobby Nowrth is kind of lurking in the corner. The 0:15:36.756 --> 0:15:40.076 guy from the Animals, Alan Price, is there, and Donovan 0:15:40.196 --> 0:15:43.636 is there, and the guitar is being passed around, and Donovan, 0:15:44.916 --> 0:15:49.036 who's great, you know, sings try and Catch the Wind 0:15:49.276 --> 0:15:51.316 or something like that, you know, which was a big 0:15:51.436 --> 0:15:54.996 radio record, probably all more records than any Bob Dylan single. 0:15:55.436 --> 0:15:59.716 But a little twee, a little a little twee and soft, 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:04.556 and so Dylan and Newarth, you know, kind of nodding 0:16:04.596 --> 0:16:06.436 and saying that's a pretty good song man. And then 0:16:06.556 --> 0:16:09.516 Dylan takes the guitar and plays It's all all over, 0:16:09.596 --> 0:16:12.476 baby Blue. It's all over now, baby Blue, And you 0:16:12.516 --> 0:16:15.876 can just see the look on Donovan's face. It just like, 0:16:16.516 --> 0:16:20.356 oh my goodness, it was just so powerful. 0:16:19.916 --> 0:16:22.796 And he smiles through it. But you can just see them. 0:16:22.996 --> 0:16:24.916 Why don't you just break the guitar from my head? 0:16:25.156 --> 0:16:28.396 Yeah, it's killing, Yeah, I mean it's you know, jazz musicians, 0:16:28.716 --> 0:16:32.316 you know, saxophone players in the forties used to they 0:16:32.356 --> 0:16:36.316 were called cutting sessions, you know, and Lester Young and 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:40.396 Charlie Parker and you know does Hey Gillespie and these 0:16:40.396 --> 0:16:42.996 guys would They're all they were all competitive with each other. 0:16:43.076 --> 0:16:46.556 I mean they so it's it's not I don't and 0:16:46.716 --> 0:16:48.116 again I don't think it's a bad thing. 0:16:48.156 --> 0:16:48.436 Really. 0:16:50.036 --> 0:16:51.796 We'll be back with more from Loud and Wing right 0:16:51.796 --> 0:16:54.076 the third and Bruce Hadlam after the break. 0:16:58.396 --> 0:17:01.396 What did you take from your father as a writer? 0:17:01.556 --> 0:17:03.716 Do you are there similarities in what you do? 0:17:03.716 --> 0:17:06.276 Do you think I've come to realize that there were. 0:17:06.476 --> 0:17:09.836 You know, I was competitive with my father and and stuff, 0:17:09.916 --> 0:17:14.356 which again I don't advise for parents and children, but 0:17:15.596 --> 0:17:17.516 I got a lot from him. He died in nineteen 0:17:17.556 --> 0:17:21.836 eighty eight. And the way that I write songs are 0:17:23.236 --> 0:17:27.036 there's a journalistic element to them. They're they're descriptive, there's 0:17:27.036 --> 0:17:28.516 a beginning, of the middle and an end. 0:17:28.636 --> 0:17:29.556 I'm always trying to. 0:17:29.516 --> 0:17:32.596 Be very clear about what it is that I'm saying. 0:17:33.916 --> 0:17:36.716 And I think I got that from my dad, I hope, 0:17:36.716 --> 0:17:38.516 So anyway, I appreciate it. 0:17:38.596 --> 0:17:40.756 Do you have any of his habits? Do you carry 0:17:40.756 --> 0:17:42.876 around a notebook and scribble down thing? 0:17:43.036 --> 0:17:45.996 I carry around my file of facts. 0:17:47.676 --> 0:17:50.076 You know, people can't see this, but it's a pretty 0:17:50.116 --> 0:17:52.356 beat up old file of facts I got from the 0:17:52.396 --> 0:17:56.116 nineteen eighties in the hope that I'll see something or 0:17:56.156 --> 0:17:58.636 hear something and jot something down and it could lead 0:17:58.676 --> 0:18:00.356 to a song, and it has done. 0:18:01.316 --> 0:18:02.916 How often does something like that happen? 0:18:03.716 --> 0:18:04.236 A song? 0:18:05.036 --> 0:18:07.316 Just an idea of thought that you'll jot down. 0:18:07.596 --> 0:18:11.236 Well know, I've got it in the bag. I mean, 0:18:11.276 --> 0:18:16.036 you know, that's where the mystery comes in. How does 0:18:16.036 --> 0:18:20.676 the song start, or any any piece of work. It's 0:18:20.756 --> 0:18:23.596 mysterious to me, despite the fact that I've been doing 0:18:23.636 --> 0:18:26.196 it for a long long time. I liken it to fishing. 0:18:26.476 --> 0:18:29.476 You know, I've got a line in the water. Whether 0:18:29.516 --> 0:18:30.996 I get a bite or can get it in the 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.596 boat once I get a bite depends. 0:18:33.756 --> 0:18:36.196 But it's it's mysterious. 0:18:36.316 --> 0:18:38.596 Yeah, what's the old line it's called fishing, not catching. 0:18:39.116 --> 0:18:40.036 Yeah, I like that. 0:18:41.036 --> 0:18:42.996 And then do you sit down with your guitar and 0:18:43.076 --> 0:18:46.036 just flip through the book and see what happens? 0:18:46.956 --> 0:18:51.076 Yeah, I mean it's all very disorganized in random, you know. 0:18:51.436 --> 0:18:54.036 Or I'll write something down, or I'll find something in 0:18:54.076 --> 0:18:57.956 the book that I've forgotten about, and or i'll you know, 0:18:58.516 --> 0:19:02.436 quite often for me, a song can start from the first. 0:19:02.236 --> 0:19:02.996 Line, you know. 0:19:04.356 --> 0:19:06.756 You know, an example from the new album would be 0:19:06.996 --> 0:19:11.596 I need a family vacation, I mean a family vacation alone. 0:19:11.916 --> 0:19:15.516 So that's a good starting place for a guy like me. 0:19:18.716 --> 0:19:23.196 You know, the first line is often a kind of springboard. 0:19:24.396 --> 0:19:27.196 Where does that impulse come from? I mean, your father 0:19:27.276 --> 0:19:30.956 wrote about his family Life Magazine. I don't think he 0:19:31.236 --> 0:19:34.036 wrote about it quite in the way you write about it, right. Well, 0:19:34.036 --> 0:19:35.796 he was Life Magazine. 0:19:35.396 --> 0:19:38.876 Yeah yeah, I mean, yeah, he had constraints on him 0:19:40.036 --> 0:19:44.876 because Life Magazine was fairly conservative actually, but I think 0:19:44.916 --> 0:19:47.436 by nature he was a little more conservative. He was 0:19:47.476 --> 0:19:52.956 a different generation, you know, the afore mentioned Bob Dylan. 0:19:52.996 --> 0:19:54.556 I mean, you know, he kind of freed it up. 0:19:54.596 --> 0:19:56.716 I mean, you could write about your life. I mean, 0:19:56.916 --> 0:19:59.716 he was always oblique so you never knew exactly what 0:19:59.756 --> 0:20:00.596 the hell he was talking. 0:20:00.836 --> 0:20:02.796 You could listen to every Bob Dylan song and not 0:20:02.956 --> 0:20:04.636 know anything about Bob Dylan. 0:20:04.796 --> 0:20:04.996 Yeah. 0:20:05.036 --> 0:20:06.396 I suspect he likes it that way. 0:20:06.516 --> 0:20:09.996 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely have a con professional straight 0:20:10.396 --> 0:20:13.676 streak propensity, as it were. 0:20:14.156 --> 0:20:17.436 But have you ever felt you've gone too far with 0:20:17.476 --> 0:20:17.876 the song? 0:20:19.676 --> 0:20:19.796 Uh? 0:20:19.956 --> 0:20:24.236 Yeah, I have, and then I go ahead and go 0:20:24.316 --> 0:20:28.036 too far anyway. I mean, although there are there are 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:31.556 some songs that I don't sing anymore that I you know, 0:20:31.636 --> 0:20:34.636 that I know have upset people or that they've they've 0:20:34.676 --> 0:20:39.836 told me that, and I'm trying to you know, I'm 0:20:39.876 --> 0:20:40.436 working on it. 0:20:40.516 --> 0:20:41.196 Yeah. 0:20:41.236 --> 0:20:42.756 Can you give me an example of one that you 0:20:42.876 --> 0:20:45.796 just don't you just don't perform for that reason. 0:20:47.196 --> 0:20:47.396 Yeah. 0:20:47.756 --> 0:20:50.156 I mean there's a song called It's About. It's a 0:20:50.156 --> 0:20:53.756 song called that Hospital and it's about it's about a 0:20:53.836 --> 0:20:58.236 hospital in northern Westchester where some key events happened, and 0:20:58.276 --> 0:21:01.316 I just realized that I shouldn't do that song anymore. 0:21:02.316 --> 0:21:06.876 On the other hand, I think I'll think, oh, this 0:21:06.996 --> 0:21:09.356 is uh just as close to the bone, and then 0:21:09.396 --> 0:21:13.076 I'll think that's a good thing, you know. I want 0:21:13.076 --> 0:21:16.036 to push it for my audience, you know. And again 0:21:16.756 --> 0:21:19.756 when I'm writing about my experiences in my family or 0:21:19.756 --> 0:21:23.516 my marriages, or with my kids or this is not 0:21:23.676 --> 0:21:26.196 foreign territory, people know exactly. 0:21:25.716 --> 0:21:27.676 What I'm talking about. 0:21:28.196 --> 0:21:30.676 People will come up and say, boy, that song about 0:21:31.276 --> 0:21:33.356 you and your sister or you and your kid. You 0:21:33.396 --> 0:21:39.196 mentioned that song hitting you. You know, they'll actually thank me. 0:21:40.156 --> 0:21:43.116 You know. They don't give me any extra money, but 0:21:43.156 --> 0:21:43.916 they will thank me. 0:21:44.476 --> 0:21:47.956 When you write a song like that, are you stating 0:21:47.956 --> 0:21:50.676 the way you feel? Or in writing it, are you 0:21:50.996 --> 0:21:53.156 are you working through those feelings? 0:21:53.716 --> 0:21:53.956 Well? 0:21:53.996 --> 0:21:57.476 Working through make it somehow implies that you know, you've 0:21:58.276 --> 0:22:02.396 that there's a therapeutic aspect to it. I don't think 0:22:02.436 --> 0:22:04.516 there is. I mean, you know, and it could be 0:22:04.636 --> 0:22:13.436 argued that that focusing on marital familial problems, you know, 0:22:14.036 --> 0:22:18.596 could make it worse. But it's interesting, you know, writing 0:22:18.676 --> 0:22:22.636 about my loved ones. They're the most important people in 0:22:22.676 --> 0:22:25.756 my life. They're the biggest people in my life. They're 0:22:25.796 --> 0:22:28.276 the people that I were all part of each other. 0:22:28.756 --> 0:22:32.596 So it's always struck me that that's who I should 0:22:32.636 --> 0:22:33.396 be writing about. 0:22:33.396 --> 0:22:35.916 And one of my favorite lines from your book is 0:22:35.956 --> 0:22:38.436 in reference not to your work, but in reference to 0:22:38.476 --> 0:22:42.676 your father and mother, you're imagining how they came together, 0:22:42.756 --> 0:22:47.996 your father being a upper middle class guy, your mother 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:52.596 from Georgia. You'd a beautiful line which was, it's basically 0:22:52.636 --> 0:22:57.036 about how men, at some point after they feel comfortable, 0:22:57.516 --> 0:23:00.876 feel the need to tell everybody what a piece of 0:23:00.876 --> 0:23:04.116 shit they are. And the line was, the confession of 0:23:04.156 --> 0:23:07.156 weakness to a woman is so often a search for 0:23:07.236 --> 0:23:12.236 sweet absolution. Boy, Yeah, you're good. 0:23:13.196 --> 0:23:14.196 Yeah you surprised. 0:23:14.596 --> 0:23:16.636 That's good, And that's certainly was the case in my 0:23:17.156 --> 0:23:20.356 with my parents. You know, I can, I think I 0:23:21.036 --> 0:23:23.556 might go. You know somehow I think of the imagine 0:23:23.596 --> 0:23:27.356 you imagine your parents before before you were on the scene, 0:23:27.956 --> 0:23:30.956 or even maybe the night after the moment after you 0:23:30.996 --> 0:23:35.116 were conceived, you know, lying in bed, and undoubtedly my 0:23:35.156 --> 0:23:38.596 father would be smoking a cigarette and you know, just 0:23:38.796 --> 0:23:41.956 unloading and talking about how he felt. And my mother 0:23:42.076 --> 0:23:45.076