1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,436 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, at seventy five years old, loud 3 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:27,116 Speaker 2: and Wainwright the Third released Lifetime Achievement, an aptly titled 4 00:00:27,156 --> 00:00:30,236 Speaker 2: album from a songwriter whose debut came more than fifty 5 00:00:30,356 --> 00:00:34,276 Speaker 2: years earlier. Over the decades, Loudan has built a reputation 6 00:00:34,396 --> 00:00:38,036 Speaker 2: for his confessional style, writing candidly about the struggles and 7 00:00:38,076 --> 00:00:41,996 Speaker 2: absurdities of family life, failed relationships, and the scars of 8 00:00:41,996 --> 00:00:46,116 Speaker 2: parental abandonment. While his subject matter can be heavy, he 9 00:00:46,196 --> 00:00:49,476 Speaker 2: often balances it with wit and humor. You'll hear that 10 00:00:49,516 --> 00:00:52,276 Speaker 2: today when he performs Famvack and Back in Your Town 11 00:00:52,396 --> 00:00:56,316 Speaker 2: from Lifetime Achievement. In this conversation with Bruce Headlam, Louden 12 00:00:56,396 --> 00:00:58,916 Speaker 2: reflects on how he leaned into his upper class upbringing, 13 00:00:58,996 --> 00:01:02,116 Speaker 2: when he first began performing professionally, what it was like 14 00:01:02,196 --> 00:01:05,516 Speaker 2: collaborating with guitar virtuoso Richard Thompson in the eighties, and 15 00:01:05,596 --> 00:01:08,556 Speaker 2: the magical feeling of stepping on stage for his very 16 00:01:08,596 --> 00:01:16,316 Speaker 2: first time. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 17 00:01:21,116 --> 00:01:23,836 Speaker 2: Here's Bruce Headlam with loud and Wainwright the Third. 18 00:01:45,196 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 3: I need a family vacation. 19 00:01:48,876 --> 00:01:52,596 Speaker 4: I made a family vacation alone. 20 00:01:53,836 --> 00:01:58,956 Speaker 5: I'm gonna pack up the card of the Viking, the kayak, 21 00:01:59,756 --> 00:02:01,836 Speaker 5: leave the fucking family. 22 00:02:01,596 --> 00:02:02,756 Speaker 6: And all. 23 00:02:04,356 --> 00:02:10,476 Speaker 7: Vacation away from the family, Vacation. 24 00:02:10,316 --> 00:02:11,796 Speaker 8: Away from the fray. 25 00:02:14,076 --> 00:02:19,916 Speaker 9: When it comes to your so cold loved ones, sometimes 26 00:02:19,916 --> 00:02:23,556 Speaker 9: you gotta get away. 27 00:02:24,756 --> 00:02:30,036 Speaker 7: Maybe I'll go to the mountains, or else I'll get 28 00:02:30,156 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 7: down to the shore. 29 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:33,436 Speaker 1: Yeah. 30 00:02:33,796 --> 00:02:37,916 Speaker 7: I guess there's a chance I might miss my people, 31 00:02:38,356 --> 00:02:43,636 Speaker 7: but right now I can't stand them no more. When 32 00:02:43,756 --> 00:02:50,276 Speaker 7: I'm barbecue in there on my webber, I might be focused. 33 00:02:49,676 --> 00:02:50,916 Speaker 8: On my family. 34 00:02:53,396 --> 00:02:58,276 Speaker 7: Then I'll throw down some hot dogs, burgers, and some chicken. 35 00:02:58,756 --> 00:03:10,036 Speaker 6: I'll burn them all in effigy. 36 00:03:13,356 --> 00:03:18,476 Speaker 10: When I get back from my family vacation, tan. 37 00:03:18,476 --> 00:03:21,236 Speaker 7: And relaxed will be the shaping them in. 38 00:03:23,076 --> 00:03:23,116 Speaker 5: You. 39 00:03:23,316 --> 00:03:28,796 Speaker 9: I'll be patient and love and not dimensioned detached when 40 00:03:28,876 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 9: I'm dealing with. 41 00:03:30,076 --> 00:03:36,716 Speaker 7: My kids and my kids, we all need a family vacation. 42 00:03:38,316 --> 00:03:44,436 Speaker 6: You got to keep the ashpot cut Bay Tall Story 43 00:03:44,716 --> 00:03:47,396 Speaker 6: got it right when he wrote each. 44 00:03:47,316 --> 00:03:57,756 Speaker 10: Unhappy family, it's unhappy in it's own way. 45 00:03:58,516 --> 00:04:10,636 Speaker 8: Oh, I ran away from my parents, Still run away 46 00:04:10,956 --> 00:04:12,076 Speaker 8: from my kids. 47 00:04:13,836 --> 00:04:18,436 Speaker 10: As for brother and sister, we're playing twister. 48 00:04:19,116 --> 00:04:20,516 Speaker 6: That's the cover up. 49 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:25,156 Speaker 11: Keep ourselves hid from each other. 50 00:04:28,676 --> 00:04:30,836 Speaker 4: I need a family vacation. 51 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:35,476 Speaker 3: My family needs a vacation from me. 52 00:04:37,676 --> 00:04:43,076 Speaker 4: Because you're dearest and nearest. They're the most dangerous. 53 00:04:43,476 --> 00:04:48,076 Speaker 6: They're the ones that make you crave. 54 00:04:50,516 --> 00:04:52,996 Speaker 12: Let's rite your dearest. 55 00:04:52,476 --> 00:04:55,796 Speaker 8: And nearest, they're the most dangerous. 56 00:04:56,116 --> 00:05:06,116 Speaker 13: They're the ones that make you fucking crazy. 57 00:05:07,636 --> 00:05:15,436 Speaker 12: Sean Paul Sartres said it hell is other people. 58 00:05:25,196 --> 00:05:29,596 Speaker 1: All right, you got Tolstoy, Sartra and a Yiddish expression. 59 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:35,316 Speaker 1: Sound man, you really pack it in. We don't have 60 00:05:35,356 --> 00:05:37,796 Speaker 1: to be too official off the top, but we are 61 00:05:37,836 --> 00:05:40,396 Speaker 1: here with Loud and Wayne right the third. Do you 62 00:05:40,436 --> 00:05:42,276 Speaker 1: still go by Loud and Wayne right the third? 63 00:05:42,436 --> 00:05:44,356 Speaker 9: I answer to Loud and Wayne right the third, but 64 00:05:44,396 --> 00:05:48,396 Speaker 9: I'll also answer to Loudie or loudun or. 65 00:05:48,476 --> 00:05:50,756 Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna use Loud and Wayne right the third. 66 00:05:51,036 --> 00:05:53,436 Speaker 1: I think it's more official. And we're talking about your 67 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:57,276 Speaker 1: new album, Lifetime Achievement. Do you go into every album 68 00:05:57,316 --> 00:05:59,756 Speaker 1: with a particular idea of something you want to do? 69 00:06:00,236 --> 00:06:03,436 Speaker 1: Was there an idea or something that motivated this album? 70 00:06:04,316 --> 00:06:04,516 Speaker 6: No? 71 00:06:04,716 --> 00:06:06,836 Speaker 12: I what I do is I write these songs. 72 00:06:06,876 --> 00:06:09,036 Speaker 9: You know, I'm trying to write songs, and then when 73 00:06:09,236 --> 00:06:12,436 Speaker 9: I gather together, I'm always thinking when is it going 74 00:06:12,476 --> 00:06:13,996 Speaker 9: to be time to make a record. This is the 75 00:06:14,036 --> 00:06:18,556 Speaker 9: first studio record that I've made, I think, since twenty fourteen. 76 00:06:20,036 --> 00:06:22,116 Speaker 9: So you gather a bunch, I gather a bunch of 77 00:06:22,156 --> 00:06:25,396 Speaker 9: songs together. A lot of the songs are on topics 78 00:06:25,396 --> 00:06:30,596 Speaker 9: that I've explored before in songs, But it's you kind 79 00:06:30,596 --> 00:06:33,876 Speaker 9: of think, is this enough material to make a record? 80 00:06:33,916 --> 00:06:35,516 Speaker 9: And then what kind of a record do I want 81 00:06:35,516 --> 00:06:38,076 Speaker 9: to make? But I don't think I'm going to make 82 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:43,436 Speaker 9: a record about family alienation and the pandemic. 83 00:06:43,716 --> 00:06:44,796 Speaker 12: Okay, here we go. 84 00:06:44,996 --> 00:06:48,196 Speaker 9: It didn't really work that way, although the record is 85 00:06:48,316 --> 00:06:50,476 Speaker 9: kind of about that too. 86 00:06:50,916 --> 00:06:54,396 Speaker 1: Now You've got a song called how Old is seventy five? Yeah, 87 00:06:54,436 --> 00:06:56,396 Speaker 1: and you know, some of the reviews have been, you know, 88 00:06:57,236 --> 00:07:01,676 Speaker 1: your winter album looking back with remorse and loss. I 89 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:03,436 Speaker 1: didn't get that at all. I found this like a 90 00:07:03,596 --> 00:07:09,036 Speaker 1: very upbeat, optimistic album, particularly from someone who's known for 91 00:07:09,236 --> 00:07:15,276 Speaker 1: or confessional song and self lacerating wit songs that cut 92 00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 1: to the bone. This did not seem an album that 93 00:07:19,156 --> 00:07:23,236 Speaker 1: is where you're overwhelmed by past failures. This seemed you're 94 00:07:23,476 --> 00:07:24,916 Speaker 1: very much in the moment. 95 00:07:25,356 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good these days, and the song's 96 00:07:30,436 --> 00:07:33,956 Speaker 9: death is referenced in the song in the album, as 97 00:07:34,036 --> 00:07:36,796 Speaker 9: is aging and diminishment. 98 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:40,396 Speaker 1: To be fair, you've been talking about those since you 99 00:07:40,436 --> 00:07:40,876 Speaker 1: were thirty. 100 00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:43,796 Speaker 9: Yeah, But the first line in my first song on 101 00:07:43,836 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 9: my first record was in Delaware when I was younger. 102 00:07:46,836 --> 00:07:51,036 Speaker 9: So I've been obsessed with this thing and now it's 103 00:07:51,156 --> 00:07:54,996 Speaker 9: kind of is here. But no, I don't think it's 104 00:07:54,996 --> 00:07:56,356 Speaker 9: a downer this record. 105 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:57,836 Speaker 12: We tried to be careful about that. 106 00:07:58,756 --> 00:08:01,396 Speaker 1: In the first song, there's a great line, I want 107 00:08:01,436 --> 00:08:04,436 Speaker 1: to talk the truth about the fountain of youth to 108 00:08:04,476 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: our eager audience out there. So what's the truth about 109 00:08:06,756 --> 00:08:07,476 Speaker 1: the fountain of youth? 110 00:08:07,556 --> 00:08:09,156 Speaker 9: Well, I think the line is I want to I 111 00:08:10,396 --> 00:08:12,836 Speaker 9: want to tell the truth and find the fountain of you. 112 00:08:12,996 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 1: Oh okay. 113 00:08:14,396 --> 00:08:16,596 Speaker 9: That's another song that just talks about what I've been 114 00:08:16,636 --> 00:08:18,716 Speaker 9: doing all this time. It's been you know, I've been 115 00:08:18,916 --> 00:08:24,996 Speaker 9: making records for fifty plus years and wondering how much 116 00:08:25,036 --> 00:08:27,596 Speaker 9: longer it can go on. But at the moment it's 117 00:08:27,636 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 9: feeling could go on. I think I'm going to make 118 00:08:30,356 --> 00:08:32,356 Speaker 9: it to my seventy sixth birthday. 119 00:08:32,436 --> 00:08:35,356 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's written as many songs about family 120 00:08:35,996 --> 00:08:40,156 Speaker 1: as you have, or certainly as many by win that competition, 121 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:43,636 Speaker 1: You win that competition. Many many great songs, you know, 122 00:08:43,676 --> 00:08:48,396 Speaker 1: your Mother and I and Lullaby The Days We Die, Yeah, 123 00:08:48,556 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: hitting you, hitting you when you leave? There are a lot. 124 00:08:53,356 --> 00:08:57,956 Speaker 1: Are you conscious when you're writing the songs? Are you 125 00:08:58,076 --> 00:09:02,676 Speaker 1: conscious of other people's reactions, your family's reactions. 126 00:09:03,196 --> 00:09:07,276 Speaker 9: Kind of like, oh, he's gonna hate this one. 127 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:09,476 Speaker 12: Well, I'm aware of it. 128 00:09:09,556 --> 00:09:11,316 Speaker 9: Yes, So I'm conscious of it certainly. 129 00:09:11,436 --> 00:09:11,676 Speaker 12: Yeah. 130 00:09:11,716 --> 00:09:13,756 Speaker 9: I mean, you know, but it's it is as you say, 131 00:09:13,796 --> 00:09:16,796 Speaker 9: it's it's I've been doing it for a long long time. 132 00:09:16,876 --> 00:09:20,116 Speaker 9: It's my it's the waterfront I cover, you know, I 133 00:09:20,196 --> 00:09:21,396 Speaker 9: want one of the big ones. 134 00:09:22,356 --> 00:09:22,796 Speaker 12: Certainly. 135 00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:26,156 Speaker 9: You know, we've had some tense Thanksgiving dinners over the years, 136 00:09:26,876 --> 00:09:31,236 Speaker 9: but I think my family, uh has come to expect this, 137 00:09:31,876 --> 00:09:35,356 Speaker 9: and the members of my family, uh, you know, three 138 00:09:35,396 --> 00:09:40,036 Speaker 9: out of my four kids are songwriters, and my my 139 00:09:40,236 --> 00:09:44,116 Speaker 9: other daughter is a is A is a wonderful prose writer. 140 00:09:45,596 --> 00:09:49,116 Speaker 9: And they they've all written about me and referenced me 141 00:09:49,356 --> 00:09:55,076 Speaker 9: and talked about their take on the whole thing. So 142 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:57,956 Speaker 9: it's it's it's it's just part of the whole deal. 143 00:09:58,276 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 9: And uh, I feel okay about it now. 144 00:10:00,836 --> 00:10:03,796 Speaker 1: Growing up, it seemed to me that you wanted to 145 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:06,716 Speaker 1: be a performer. You went to acting school. 146 00:10:06,956 --> 00:10:07,196 Speaker 12: Yeah. 147 00:10:07,396 --> 00:10:10,076 Speaker 1: Now you did play guitar, starting quite young, I think. 148 00:10:10,156 --> 00:10:12,156 Speaker 1: Did your dad give you a guitar that? 149 00:10:12,276 --> 00:10:16,876 Speaker 9: Yeah, my dad, who was a journalist for Life magazine, 150 00:10:17,036 --> 00:10:19,796 Speaker 9: He also loved music, and he had a friend in 151 00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:24,116 Speaker 9: the nineteen fifties quite a well known songwriter and singer 152 00:10:24,196 --> 00:10:29,396 Speaker 9: called Terry Gilksson. He wrote, you know, memories are made 153 00:10:29,396 --> 00:10:33,156 Speaker 9: of this, that big Dean Martin head and other things. 154 00:10:33,196 --> 00:10:35,556 Speaker 9: But he was a drinking buddy of my dad's. He 155 00:10:35,596 --> 00:10:38,996 Speaker 9: gave my dad a nylon string, beautiful little Mexican guitar, 156 00:10:39,916 --> 00:10:42,396 Speaker 9: and then my dad bequeathed it to me. So that 157 00:10:42,476 --> 00:10:44,196 Speaker 9: was my actual first guitar. Got it when I was 158 00:10:44,236 --> 00:10:44,996 Speaker 9: about thirteen. 159 00:10:46,076 --> 00:10:47,996 Speaker 1: And did you immediately take to folk music? 160 00:10:49,436 --> 00:10:52,556 Speaker 9: You know in the early sixties, you know, and the 161 00:10:52,596 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 9: folk boom happened. You know, I saw people like Ramblin, 162 00:10:56,076 --> 00:10:59,076 Speaker 9: Jack Elliott and Pat Sky and Dave van Ron and 163 00:10:59,156 --> 00:11:02,836 Speaker 9: of course Bob Dylan who were playing steel string guitars 164 00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:06,396 Speaker 9: and at the Newport Folk Festival and stuff. Then I 165 00:11:06,436 --> 00:11:10,076 Speaker 9: still hadn't written anything myself, but I I got myself 166 00:11:10,636 --> 00:11:14,036 Speaker 9: a Martin Dreadnought and you know, started to emulate those 167 00:11:14,076 --> 00:11:16,596 Speaker 9: guys who were all just a few years older than me. 168 00:11:16,756 --> 00:11:20,596 Speaker 9: Actually right, I mean Jack Elliott's not a few years 169 00:11:20,636 --> 00:11:22,956 Speaker 9: older than me. He's in his nineties. But yeah, he 170 00:11:23,076 --> 00:11:26,316 Speaker 9: sure was always springy and youthful. 171 00:11:27,236 --> 00:11:29,276 Speaker 1: So it was songwriting just a way to get you 172 00:11:29,356 --> 00:11:30,076 Speaker 1: up on stage. 173 00:11:31,516 --> 00:11:33,436 Speaker 9: I mean I wanted to be on stage ever since 174 00:11:33,476 --> 00:11:35,196 Speaker 9: I was seven, you know, and I was showing off 175 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:37,996 Speaker 9: from my parents and stuff. But when I got on 176 00:11:38,036 --> 00:11:40,876 Speaker 9: stage with a guitar, it's something seemed to click, and 177 00:11:41,356 --> 00:11:42,956 Speaker 9: I was off and running, I suppose. 178 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:46,236 Speaker 1: But you didn't emulate those guys. You didn't try to 179 00:11:46,276 --> 00:11:49,316 Speaker 1: be a beatnik. No, you were out there in like 180 00:11:49,356 --> 00:11:50,596 Speaker 1: a Brooks Brothers se right. 181 00:11:51,316 --> 00:11:53,196 Speaker 9: You know, you have to figure out a way to 182 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:57,556 Speaker 9: be noticed in the world, and in show. 183 00:11:57,356 --> 00:11:58,476 Speaker 12: Business in particular. 184 00:11:58,556 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 9: I'd say, So, I wore what I wore in boarding school, 185 00:12:03,116 --> 00:12:08,876 Speaker 9: you know, a Books Brothers blazer and gray flannel pants, 186 00:12:09,236 --> 00:12:11,716 Speaker 9: bell bottoms. I had short hair on my first couple 187 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:16,036 Speaker 9: of albums. Yeah, that was the look that I created 188 00:12:16,076 --> 00:12:19,636 Speaker 9: to separate me from the pack, and it worked kind of. 189 00:12:19,916 --> 00:12:22,076 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you worry? People would say, why do we 190 00:12:22,076 --> 00:12:24,596 Speaker 1: want to listen to this kid from a private school 191 00:12:24,636 --> 00:12:26,116 Speaker 1: in Westchester. 192 00:12:26,596 --> 00:12:28,876 Speaker 9: I didn't worry about it. I understood that I had 193 00:12:28,876 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 9: to write about I mean, I wasn't going to write 194 00:12:30,636 --> 00:12:35,036 Speaker 9: about writing being a hobo on the rails, or like 195 00:12:35,116 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 9: Jack Elliott, you know, invent myself into something that I wasn't. 196 00:12:39,436 --> 00:12:41,516 Speaker 9: I decided to more or less take what I was, 197 00:12:42,116 --> 00:12:45,036 Speaker 9: which was a guy that grew up in Westchester and 198 00:12:45,076 --> 00:12:49,316 Speaker 9: went to boarding school, and you know, emphasize it and 199 00:12:49,796 --> 00:12:53,836 Speaker 9: write about it. And then when I got married, I 200 00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:57,236 Speaker 9: wrote about that. And you know, I've just been writing 201 00:12:57,276 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 9: about my swing in life all this time. 202 00:13:01,596 --> 00:13:06,196 Speaker 1: One thing that comes through in your autobiography Liner Notes, 203 00:13:06,196 --> 00:13:08,716 Speaker 1: which I'm going to recommend everybody because it's a wonderful book, 204 00:13:09,476 --> 00:13:13,356 Speaker 1: is how competitive you were. I mean, you were a 205 00:13:13,356 --> 00:13:15,836 Speaker 1: big swimmer, so I think maybe some of that comes 206 00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:20,796 Speaker 1: from sports, but you were competitive with everybody. You say, 207 00:13:20,796 --> 00:13:23,316 Speaker 1: at some point when somebody else gets trashed, you feel 208 00:13:23,316 --> 00:13:25,836 Speaker 1: a little bit better. I mean another singer, I don't 209 00:13:25,876 --> 00:13:28,516 Speaker 1: mean just a person walking down the street. Where does 210 00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:29,956 Speaker 1: that competition come from? 211 00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:34,996 Speaker 9: Well, my father, you know, the aforementioned father was was 212 00:13:35,356 --> 00:13:42,076 Speaker 9: successful in the world of journalism, and and and he 213 00:13:42,156 --> 00:13:46,116 Speaker 9: was competitive, And you know, I don't want to blame 214 00:13:46,156 --> 00:13:47,076 Speaker 9: it on my parents. 215 00:13:47,156 --> 00:13:47,676 Speaker 12: I mean, I. 216 00:13:50,076 --> 00:13:55,356 Speaker 9: Yeah, this need to achieve or succeed is in me, 217 00:13:55,756 --> 00:13:58,276 Speaker 9: you know. And and as far as my you know, 218 00:13:58,276 --> 00:14:00,196 Speaker 9: people would say, boy, it must be great when you 219 00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:03,476 Speaker 9: and Steve Goodman and John Prine and Leo Kotkey can 220 00:14:03,516 --> 00:14:06,636 Speaker 9: all go out and you know, have a cocktail or something, 221 00:14:06,716 --> 00:14:08,676 Speaker 9: and I mean, we would do that and. 222 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:09,876 Speaker 12: That's all and stuff. 223 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:13,036 Speaker 9: But I don't know about them, but I was always 224 00:14:13,116 --> 00:14:16,676 Speaker 9: thinking does he sell more records than me? And is 225 00:14:16,716 --> 00:14:20,796 Speaker 9: that song better than my song? And uh, you know, 226 00:14:21,036 --> 00:14:23,876 Speaker 9: I I'm I'm not happy to admit it. I'm I'm 227 00:14:23,916 --> 00:14:26,556 Speaker 9: ashamed to to admit it. But I do have a 228 00:14:26,596 --> 00:14:27,596 Speaker 9: competitive streak. 229 00:14:27,836 --> 00:14:28,756 Speaker 1: It's not a bad thing. 230 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:33,156 Speaker 9: It it spurs you on, you know, to to do 231 00:14:33,236 --> 00:14:37,036 Speaker 9: the best work that you can, you know, and uh, 232 00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:40,476 Speaker 9: you know, I'm again I'm not I'm not proud of 233 00:14:40,516 --> 00:14:44,516 Speaker 9: it necessarily, but it's an engine. It provides you with 234 00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:45,836 Speaker 9: an engine. 235 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:49,676 Speaker 12: And uh, but it it's it's. 236 00:14:49,116 --> 00:14:51,476 Speaker 9: It's it's murder on your family life and it leads 237 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:55,556 Speaker 9: to isolation and depression. So I would not advise being 238 00:14:55,596 --> 00:14:57,356 Speaker 9: competitive danger the kids out there. 239 00:14:57,956 --> 00:15:00,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, stay in school, don't be too competitive. 240 00:15:00,756 --> 00:15:00,996 Speaker 12: Yeah. 241 00:15:01,316 --> 00:15:05,196 Speaker 1: You in your autobiography, I'm remembering now you put your 242 00:15:05,236 --> 00:15:09,596 Speaker 1: finger on I think one of the most terrifying moments 243 00:15:10,516 --> 00:15:15,236 Speaker 1: in documentary film. And you talk about it, and it's 244 00:15:15,276 --> 00:15:16,236 Speaker 1: in Don't Look Back. 245 00:15:16,356 --> 00:15:20,156 Speaker 9: Yeah, Dylan documented, Yeah, yeah, Oh that's a great moment. 246 00:15:20,476 --> 00:15:25,516 Speaker 9: Uh and and and scary too. They're in London, I guess, 247 00:15:25,596 --> 00:15:28,636 Speaker 9: and they're in a hotel room and Dylan is there, 248 00:15:28,916 --> 00:15:32,196 Speaker 9: you know, at the height of you know, his whole thing. 249 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:36,716 Speaker 9: Bobby Nowrth is kind of lurking in the corner. The 250 00:15:36,756 --> 00:15:40,076 Speaker 9: guy from the Animals, Alan Price, is there, and Donovan 251 00:15:40,196 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 9: is there, and the guitar is being passed around, and Donovan, 252 00:15:44,916 --> 00:15:49,036 Speaker 9: who's great, you know, sings try and Catch the Wind 253 00:15:49,276 --> 00:15:51,316 Speaker 9: or something like that, you know, which was a big 254 00:15:51,436 --> 00:15:54,996 Speaker 9: radio record, probably all more records than any Bob Dylan single. 255 00:15:55,436 --> 00:15:59,716 Speaker 9: But a little twee, a little a little twee and soft, 256 00:15:59,796 --> 00:16:04,556 Speaker 9: and so Dylan and Newarth, you know, kind of nodding 257 00:16:04,596 --> 00:16:06,436 Speaker 9: and saying that's a pretty good song man. And then 258 00:16:06,556 --> 00:16:09,516 Speaker 9: Dylan takes the guitar and plays It's all all over, 259 00:16:09,596 --> 00:16:12,476 Speaker 9: baby Blue. It's all over now, baby Blue, And you 260 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:15,876 Speaker 9: can just see the look on Donovan's face. It just like, 261 00:16:16,516 --> 00:16:20,356 Speaker 9: oh my goodness, it was just so powerful. 262 00:16:19,916 --> 00:16:22,796 Speaker 1: And he smiles through it. But you can just see them. 263 00:16:22,996 --> 00:16:24,916 Speaker 1: Why don't you just break the guitar from my head? 264 00:16:25,156 --> 00:16:28,396 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's killing, Yeah, I mean it's you know, jazz musicians, 265 00:16:28,716 --> 00:16:32,316 Speaker 9: you know, saxophone players in the forties used to they 266 00:16:32,356 --> 00:16:36,316 Speaker 9: were called cutting sessions, you know, and Lester Young and 267 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:40,396 Speaker 9: Charlie Parker and you know does Hey Gillespie and these 268 00:16:40,396 --> 00:16:42,996 Speaker 9: guys would They're all they were all competitive with each other. 269 00:16:43,076 --> 00:16:46,556 Speaker 9: I mean they so it's it's not I don't and 270 00:16:46,716 --> 00:16:48,116 Speaker 9: again I don't think it's a bad thing. 271 00:16:48,156 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 12: Really. 272 00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:51,796 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Loud and Wing right 273 00:16:51,796 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 2: the third and Bruce Hadlam after the break. 274 00:16:58,396 --> 00:17:01,396 Speaker 1: What did you take from your father as a writer? 275 00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:03,716 Speaker 1: Do you are there similarities in what you do? 276 00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:06,276 Speaker 9: Do you think I've come to realize that there were. 277 00:17:06,476 --> 00:17:09,836 Speaker 9: You know, I was competitive with my father and and stuff, 278 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:14,356 Speaker 9: which again I don't advise for parents and children, but 279 00:17:15,596 --> 00:17:17,516 Speaker 9: I got a lot from him. He died in nineteen 280 00:17:17,556 --> 00:17:21,836 Speaker 9: eighty eight. And the way that I write songs are 281 00:17:23,236 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 9: there's a journalistic element to them. They're they're descriptive, there's 282 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:28,516 Speaker 9: a beginning, of the middle and an end. 283 00:17:28,636 --> 00:17:29,556 Speaker 12: I'm always trying to. 284 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:32,596 Speaker 9: Be very clear about what it is that I'm saying. 285 00:17:33,916 --> 00:17:36,716 Speaker 9: And I think I got that from my dad, I hope, 286 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 9: So anyway, I appreciate it. 287 00:17:38,596 --> 00:17:40,756 Speaker 1: Do you have any of his habits? Do you carry 288 00:17:40,756 --> 00:17:42,876 Speaker 1: around a notebook and scribble down thing? 289 00:17:43,036 --> 00:17:45,996 Speaker 12: I carry around my file of facts. 290 00:17:47,676 --> 00:17:50,076 Speaker 9: You know, people can't see this, but it's a pretty 291 00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:52,356 Speaker 9: beat up old file of facts I got from the 292 00:17:52,396 --> 00:17:56,116 Speaker 9: nineteen eighties in the hope that I'll see something or 293 00:17:56,156 --> 00:17:58,636 Speaker 9: hear something and jot something down and it could lead 294 00:17:58,676 --> 00:18:00,356 Speaker 9: to a song, and it has done. 295 00:18:01,316 --> 00:18:02,916 Speaker 1: How often does something like that happen? 296 00:18:03,716 --> 00:18:04,236 Speaker 12: A song? 297 00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:07,316 Speaker 1: Just an idea of thought that you'll jot down. 298 00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:11,236 Speaker 9: Well know, I've got it in the bag. I mean, 299 00:18:11,276 --> 00:18:16,036 Speaker 9: you know, that's where the mystery comes in. How does 300 00:18:16,036 --> 00:18:20,676 Speaker 9: the song start, or any any piece of work. It's 301 00:18:20,756 --> 00:18:23,596 Speaker 9: mysterious to me, despite the fact that I've been doing 302 00:18:23,636 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 9: it for a long long time. I liken it to fishing. 303 00:18:26,476 --> 00:18:29,476 Speaker 9: You know, I've got a line in the water. Whether 304 00:18:29,516 --> 00:18:30,996 Speaker 9: I get a bite or can get it in the 305 00:18:31,036 --> 00:18:33,596 Speaker 9: boat once I get a bite depends. 306 00:18:33,756 --> 00:18:36,196 Speaker 12: But it's it's mysterious. 307 00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:38,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the old line it's called fishing, not catching. 308 00:18:39,116 --> 00:18:40,036 Speaker 12: Yeah, I like that. 309 00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:42,996 Speaker 1: And then do you sit down with your guitar and 310 00:18:43,076 --> 00:18:46,036 Speaker 1: just flip through the book and see what happens? 311 00:18:46,956 --> 00:18:51,076 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's all very disorganized in random, you know. 312 00:18:51,436 --> 00:18:54,036 Speaker 9: Or I'll write something down, or I'll find something in 313 00:18:54,076 --> 00:18:57,956 Speaker 9: the book that I've forgotten about, and or i'll you know, 314 00:18:58,516 --> 00:19:02,436 Speaker 9: quite often for me, a song can start from the first. 315 00:19:02,236 --> 00:19:02,996 Speaker 12: Line, you know. 316 00:19:04,356 --> 00:19:06,756 Speaker 9: You know, an example from the new album would be 317 00:19:06,996 --> 00:19:11,596 Speaker 9: I need a family vacation, I mean a family vacation alone. 318 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:15,516 Speaker 9: So that's a good starting place for a guy like me. 319 00:19:18,716 --> 00:19:23,196 Speaker 9: You know, the first line is often a kind of springboard. 320 00:19:24,396 --> 00:19:27,196 Speaker 1: Where does that impulse come from? I mean, your father 321 00:19:27,276 --> 00:19:30,956 Speaker 1: wrote about his family Life Magazine. I don't think he 322 00:19:31,236 --> 00:19:34,036 Speaker 1: wrote about it quite in the way you write about it, right. Well, 323 00:19:34,036 --> 00:19:35,796 Speaker 1: he was Life Magazine. 324 00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:38,876 Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, I mean, yeah, he had constraints on him 325 00:19:40,036 --> 00:19:44,876 Speaker 9: because Life Magazine was fairly conservative actually, but I think 326 00:19:44,916 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 9: by nature he was a little more conservative. He was 327 00:19:47,476 --> 00:19:52,956 Speaker 9: a different generation, you know, the afore mentioned Bob Dylan. 328 00:19:52,996 --> 00:19:54,556 Speaker 9: I mean, you know, he kind of freed it up. 329 00:19:54,596 --> 00:19:56,716 Speaker 9: I mean, you could write about your life. I mean, 330 00:19:56,916 --> 00:19:59,716 Speaker 9: he was always oblique so you never knew exactly what 331 00:19:59,756 --> 00:20:00,596 Speaker 9: the hell he was talking. 332 00:20:00,836 --> 00:20:02,796 Speaker 1: You could listen to every Bob Dylan song and not 333 00:20:02,956 --> 00:20:04,636 Speaker 1: know anything about Bob Dylan. 334 00:20:04,796 --> 00:20:04,996 Speaker 10: Yeah. 335 00:20:05,036 --> 00:20:06,396 Speaker 1: I suspect he likes it that way. 336 00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:09,996 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely have a con professional straight 337 00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:13,676 Speaker 9: streak propensity, as it were. 338 00:20:14,156 --> 00:20:17,436 Speaker 1: But have you ever felt you've gone too far with 339 00:20:17,476 --> 00:20:17,876 Speaker 1: the song? 340 00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:19,796 Speaker 10: Uh? 341 00:20:19,956 --> 00:20:24,236 Speaker 9: Yeah, I have, and then I go ahead and go 342 00:20:24,316 --> 00:20:28,036 Speaker 9: too far anyway. I mean, although there are there are 343 00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:31,556 Speaker 9: some songs that I don't sing anymore that I you know, 344 00:20:31,636 --> 00:20:34,636 Speaker 9: that I know have upset people or that they've they've 345 00:20:34,676 --> 00:20:39,836 Speaker 9: told me that, and I'm trying to you know, I'm 346 00:20:39,876 --> 00:20:40,436 Speaker 9: working on it. 347 00:20:40,516 --> 00:20:41,196 Speaker 12: Yeah. 348 00:20:41,236 --> 00:20:42,756 Speaker 1: Can you give me an example of one that you 349 00:20:42,876 --> 00:20:45,796 Speaker 1: just don't you just don't perform for that reason. 350 00:20:47,196 --> 00:20:47,396 Speaker 12: Yeah. 351 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:50,156 Speaker 9: I mean there's a song called It's About. It's a 352 00:20:50,156 --> 00:20:53,756 Speaker 9: song called that Hospital and it's about it's about a 353 00:20:53,836 --> 00:20:58,236 Speaker 9: hospital in northern Westchester where some key events happened, and 354 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:01,316 Speaker 9: I just realized that I shouldn't do that song anymore. 355 00:21:02,316 --> 00:21:06,876 Speaker 9: On the other hand, I think I'll think, oh, this 356 00:21:06,996 --> 00:21:09,356 Speaker 9: is uh just as close to the bone, and then 357 00:21:09,396 --> 00:21:13,076 Speaker 9: I'll think that's a good thing, you know. I want 358 00:21:13,076 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 9: to push it for my audience, you know. And again 359 00:21:16,756 --> 00:21:19,756 Speaker 9: when I'm writing about my experiences in my family or 360 00:21:19,756 --> 00:21:23,516 Speaker 9: my marriages, or with my kids or this is not 361 00:21:23,676 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 9: foreign territory, people know exactly. 362 00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:27,676 Speaker 12: What I'm talking about. 363 00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:30,676 Speaker 9: People will come up and say, boy, that song about 364 00:21:31,276 --> 00:21:33,356 Speaker 9: you and your sister or you and your kid. You 365 00:21:33,396 --> 00:21:39,196 Speaker 9: mentioned that song hitting you. You know, they'll actually thank me. 366 00:21:40,156 --> 00:21:43,116 Speaker 9: You know. They don't give me any extra money, but 367 00:21:43,156 --> 00:21:43,916 Speaker 9: they will thank me. 368 00:21:44,476 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 1: When you write a song like that, are you stating 369 00:21:47,956 --> 00:21:50,676 Speaker 1: the way you feel? Or in writing it, are you 370 00:21:50,996 --> 00:21:53,156 Speaker 1: are you working through those feelings? 371 00:21:53,716 --> 00:21:53,956 Speaker 12: Well? 372 00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:57,476 Speaker 9: Working through make it somehow implies that you know, you've 373 00:21:58,276 --> 00:22:02,396 Speaker 9: that there's a therapeutic aspect to it. I don't think 374 00:22:02,436 --> 00:22:04,516 Speaker 9: there is. I mean, you know, and it could be 375 00:22:04,636 --> 00:22:13,436 Speaker 9: argued that that focusing on marital familial problems, you know, 376 00:22:14,036 --> 00:22:18,596 Speaker 9: could make it worse. But it's interesting, you know, writing 377 00:22:18,676 --> 00:22:22,636 Speaker 9: about my loved ones. They're the most important people in 378 00:22:22,676 --> 00:22:25,756 Speaker 9: my life. They're the biggest people in my life. They're 379 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:28,276 Speaker 9: the people that I were all part of each other. 380 00:22:28,756 --> 00:22:32,596 Speaker 9: So it's always struck me that that's who I should 381 00:22:32,636 --> 00:22:33,396 Speaker 9: be writing about. 382 00:22:33,396 --> 00:22:35,916 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite lines from your book is 383 00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:38,436 Speaker 1: in reference not to your work, but in reference to 384 00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:42,676 Speaker 1: your father and mother, you're imagining how they came together, 385 00:22:42,756 --> 00:22:47,996 Speaker 1: your father being a upper middle class guy, your mother 386 00:22:48,036 --> 00:22:52,596 Speaker 1: from Georgia. You'd a beautiful line which was, it's basically 387 00:22:52,636 --> 00:22:57,036 Speaker 1: about how men, at some point after they feel comfortable, 388 00:22:57,516 --> 00:23:00,876 Speaker 1: feel the need to tell everybody what a piece of 389 00:23:00,876 --> 00:23:04,116 Speaker 1: shit they are. And the line was, the confession of 390 00:23:04,156 --> 00:23:07,156 Speaker 1: weakness to a woman is so often a search for 391 00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 1: sweet absolution. Boy, Yeah, you're good. 392 00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:14,196 Speaker 12: Yeah you surprised. 393 00:23:14,596 --> 00:23:16,636 Speaker 9: That's good, And that's certainly was the case in my 394 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:20,356 Speaker 9: with my parents. You know, I can, I think I 395 00:23:21,036 --> 00:23:23,556 Speaker 9: might go. You know somehow I think of the imagine 396 00:23:23,596 --> 00:23:27,356 Speaker 9: you imagine your parents before before you were on the scene, 397 00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:30,956 Speaker 9: or even maybe the night after the moment after you 398 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:35,116 Speaker 9: were conceived, you know, lying in bed, and undoubtedly my 399 00:23:35,156 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 9: father would be smoking a cigarette and you know, just 400 00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:41,956 Speaker 9: unloading and talking about how he felt. And my mother 401 00:23:42,076 --> 00:23:45,076 Speaker 9: was a good listener. In the end, the marriage didn't 402 00:23:45,076 --> 00:23:48,196 Speaker 9: work out for that could have been one of the problems. 403 00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:49,876 Speaker 12: He didn't listen well enough. 404 00:23:49,916 --> 00:23:53,036 Speaker 9: Or you know, she didn't get a chance to to 405 00:23:53,276 --> 00:23:56,436 Speaker 9: unload her emotional baggage. 406 00:23:57,036 --> 00:24:00,036 Speaker 1: Do you feel your confessional nature's in part looking for 407 00:24:01,236 --> 00:24:04,876 Speaker 1: absolution is it a way of making amends to put 408 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:05,436 Speaker 1: it in song. 409 00:24:06,996 --> 00:24:11,196 Speaker 9: There's plenty of amends to be made. I guess just 410 00:24:11,276 --> 00:24:14,476 Speaker 9: writing about it maybe is saying, Okay, here it is, 411 00:24:14,596 --> 00:24:17,516 Speaker 9: let's look at it for three minutes. Maybe that's part 412 00:24:17,516 --> 00:24:20,516 Speaker 9: of some kind of an amend's process. But again, it 413 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:25,116 Speaker 9: can create distance too, so an isolation. 414 00:24:25,796 --> 00:24:27,036 Speaker 12: So I really don't know. 415 00:24:28,076 --> 00:24:32,316 Speaker 1: Your father was also I'm surprised to read a successful 416 00:24:32,316 --> 00:24:36,116 Speaker 1: short story writer which he had to give up. Yeah, yeah, 417 00:24:36,156 --> 00:24:38,156 Speaker 1: family reasons. But tell me a bit about that. 418 00:24:38,396 --> 00:24:41,956 Speaker 9: Well, you know, every young writer imagines and hopes to 419 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:46,356 Speaker 9: be in the New Yorker magazine. And my dad has 420 00:24:46,636 --> 00:24:49,476 Speaker 9: had three of his short stories published in The New 421 00:24:49,596 --> 00:24:54,236 Speaker 9: Yorker in the late forties, and they are one in particular. 422 00:24:54,316 --> 00:24:58,876 Speaker 9: It's brilliant and completely holds up a story he wrote 423 00:24:58,916 --> 00:25:02,756 Speaker 9: about the boarding school that he went to that I 424 00:25:02,876 --> 00:25:07,956 Speaker 9: actually went to too, the same school, And so when 425 00:25:07,996 --> 00:25:10,356 Speaker 9: he writes about it, I can I can picture it 426 00:25:10,396 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 9: in my own mind. Anyway, the stories were in New 427 00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:15,996 Speaker 9: York or he was twenty two or twenty three, whatever 428 00:25:15,996 --> 00:25:18,756 Speaker 9: he was, and boy, that's the beginning of something big. 429 00:25:19,756 --> 00:25:25,196 Speaker 9: But he had a wife and three small kids, me 430 00:25:25,276 --> 00:25:28,756 Speaker 9: and my brother and sister at that point, and they 431 00:25:28,876 --> 00:25:31,436 Speaker 9: moved up to New York and he had to get 432 00:25:31,476 --> 00:25:34,316 Speaker 9: a job, and so he started to work for Life 433 00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:38,116 Speaker 9: magazine and he stayed at the magazine for his pretty 434 00:25:38,196 --> 00:25:42,196 Speaker 9: much life. So he never got to really focus on 435 00:25:42,236 --> 00:25:44,796 Speaker 9: writing fiction. Then he tried to write a lot of 436 00:25:45,236 --> 00:25:47,996 Speaker 9: you know, nonfiction books, and he had problems with that too. 437 00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:51,876 Speaker 9: You know, the book was looming for him. 438 00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:55,276 Speaker 1: So you know, it was common among journalists they think 439 00:25:55,316 --> 00:25:56,956 Speaker 1: they've got to do their magnum opus. 440 00:25:57,156 --> 00:26:00,436 Speaker 9: Yeah, they just had and it was torture for him. 441 00:26:01,076 --> 00:26:05,036 Speaker 9: But he was so successful as a journalist, as an editor, 442 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 9: as a columnist. You know, his columns are are all 443 00:26:09,276 --> 00:26:13,756 Speaker 9: so brilliant, and a few of them are I had 444 00:26:13,796 --> 00:26:16,196 Speaker 9: I printed in my book because I just wanted. 445 00:26:15,916 --> 00:26:16,876 Speaker 12: To share the work. 446 00:26:16,916 --> 00:26:18,956 Speaker 9: I mean, the quality of the writing is so great. 447 00:26:18,996 --> 00:26:22,236 Speaker 9: And then later I constructed a kind of theatrical show 448 00:26:22,436 --> 00:26:25,156 Speaker 9: called Surviving Twin where I actually. 449 00:26:24,756 --> 00:26:26,356 Speaker 12: Performed some of his columns. 450 00:26:28,156 --> 00:26:31,196 Speaker 9: So it looked like, you know, it's such a pity 451 00:26:31,196 --> 00:26:33,876 Speaker 9: that he couldn't have enjoyed his success. But he was 452 00:26:34,356 --> 00:26:35,756 Speaker 9: tortured about the book. 453 00:26:36,076 --> 00:26:38,756 Speaker 1: You know, the people he was writing with probably at 454 00:26:38,756 --> 00:26:42,236 Speaker 1: that time, were people like John Cheever, and you're often 455 00:26:42,276 --> 00:26:45,156 Speaker 1: sort of thought of as this chiever character. You went 456 00:26:45,196 --> 00:26:47,156 Speaker 1: to private school. Yeah, well, from the sounds of it, 457 00:26:47,196 --> 00:26:48,956 Speaker 1: you didn't like it. You went to boarding school. 458 00:26:49,436 --> 00:26:51,876 Speaker 12: Didn't like it, but it sure had an impact on me. 459 00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:53,236 Speaker 1: Oh what was the impact? 460 00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 9: Yeah, it had a big effect on me. I mean 461 00:26:55,116 --> 00:26:58,556 Speaker 9: my first I referenced that's in Delaware when I was younger. 462 00:26:58,596 --> 00:27:00,716 Speaker 9: My very first song on my first record was about 463 00:27:00,716 --> 00:27:04,276 Speaker 9: that boarding school. I'm kind of I have some gratitude 464 00:27:04,276 --> 00:27:06,156 Speaker 9: about that boarding school. First of all, it was a 465 00:27:06,196 --> 00:27:10,356 Speaker 9: good school. It is a good school Andrews It's in Delaware. 466 00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:13,956 Speaker 9: But at the time I was a miserable young man. 467 00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:19,676 Speaker 9: I probably would have been miserable anywhere. So I'm not 468 00:27:19,796 --> 00:27:21,636 Speaker 9: blaming my old boarding school. 469 00:27:21,636 --> 00:27:24,316 Speaker 1: You just you just wanted your parents to pay for it, right. 470 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:26,676 Speaker 9: Well, I didn't want to go, but my father again, 471 00:27:26,756 --> 00:27:30,196 Speaker 9: he my father went to the same school. He was miserable. 472 00:27:30,516 --> 00:27:31,876 Speaker 9: He thought I should go. 473 00:27:32,636 --> 00:27:35,036 Speaker 1: And did his father go to that school as well? 474 00:27:35,076 --> 00:27:37,356 Speaker 12: He didn't go to that school. He went to uh. 475 00:27:39,156 --> 00:27:42,356 Speaker 9: Trinity Palling I think or something. My son Rufus went 476 00:27:42,396 --> 00:27:45,956 Speaker 9: to boarding school, different school. He went to Millbrook and 477 00:27:46,036 --> 00:27:50,196 Speaker 9: he succeeded and found himself kind of at Millbury. I mean, 478 00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:51,716 Speaker 9: this is what I think. I think it was a 479 00:27:52,076 --> 00:27:54,116 Speaker 9: I think he wouldn't. He would say that it was 480 00:27:54,156 --> 00:27:55,396 Speaker 9: a good experience for him. 481 00:27:56,036 --> 00:27:58,756 Speaker 1: So I mentioned I started this by saying, you know, 482 00:27:58,796 --> 00:28:01,876 Speaker 1: you're compared to Chiever because of your background, but to me, 483 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:07,356 Speaker 1: you're more like Updyke. And this is why when I. 484 00:28:07,436 --> 00:28:10,316 Speaker 12: My girlfriend's going to love this because she loves John. 485 00:28:10,156 --> 00:28:12,356 Speaker 1: Up She likes John Updike. Okay, well, I've only really 486 00:28:12,356 --> 00:28:17,396 Speaker 1: read the Rabbit books. But my issue with Updyke is 487 00:28:17,436 --> 00:28:20,396 Speaker 1: he's kind of giving the game away of being a man. 488 00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:27,956 Speaker 1: He tells things about men and their wormy little desires 489 00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:32,476 Speaker 1: and their awful behavior that I feel would be best 490 00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:36,036 Speaker 1: not put out into the world. And you've got some 491 00:28:36,156 --> 00:28:39,196 Speaker 1: of that, you've you you know, I think of songs 492 00:28:39,236 --> 00:28:44,036 Speaker 1: like four by ten one Man, Guy Less, so one 493 00:28:44,036 --> 00:28:46,356 Speaker 1: of my favorite songs of yours, which is just called Men. 494 00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:51,596 Speaker 1: I'm interested in what that part of it is like 495 00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:54,036 Speaker 1: for you to be a guy and kind of, you know, 496 00:28:54,076 --> 00:28:57,356 Speaker 1: because guys are sort of taught not to yeah, not 497 00:28:57,476 --> 00:29:03,436 Speaker 1: to emote, not to reveal ourselves or traditionally men well 498 00:29:03,796 --> 00:29:04,836 Speaker 1: in songs. 499 00:29:04,876 --> 00:29:07,716 Speaker 9: You know, my songs are written to be performed, you know. 500 00:29:08,116 --> 00:29:11,236 Speaker 9: I mean, I make RECs, but but I I'm always 501 00:29:11,236 --> 00:29:12,996 Speaker 9: thinking about what what's this going to do to the 502 00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:17,076 Speaker 9: three hundred people or if if it's good, maybe three 503 00:29:17,156 --> 00:29:19,276 Speaker 9: thousand people that are sitting out there in the dark 504 00:29:20,796 --> 00:29:27,036 Speaker 9: and talking about that stuff. You know, I feel safe. 505 00:29:27,196 --> 00:29:28,916 Speaker 9: I mean, I know that there there could be an 506 00:29:29,076 --> 00:29:33,956 Speaker 9: ooh factor, you know, but who don't don't do that, 507 00:29:34,116 --> 00:29:37,316 Speaker 9: or don't say that, or don't reveal that. But I 508 00:29:37,716 --> 00:29:40,596 Speaker 9: just as a guy who wanted to who wanted to 509 00:29:40,596 --> 00:29:42,636 Speaker 9: be a performer from an earth, I just know that 510 00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:44,756 Speaker 9: it has I can feel that it's that that it's 511 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:48,276 Speaker 9: doing something to the audience. It might be making them 512 00:29:48,476 --> 00:29:52,076 Speaker 9: a little uncomfortable. I've had a tendency to do it. 513 00:29:52,276 --> 00:29:55,356 Speaker 9: I don't quite know why, except that it seems to 514 00:29:55,436 --> 00:29:56,556 Speaker 9: work for me. 515 00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:00,236 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Even on this album, when you're writing these songs, 516 00:30:00,236 --> 00:30:02,436 Speaker 1: you're thinking, how's this going to work live? How's it 517 00:30:02,476 --> 00:30:03,916 Speaker 1: going to affect people? 518 00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:07,276 Speaker 9: I think so when I'm actually you know, I'm always 519 00:30:07,356 --> 00:30:09,876 Speaker 9: thinking of that group of people and in the audience 520 00:30:12,796 --> 00:30:16,596 Speaker 9: and will it have an effect on them? And it 521 00:30:16,596 --> 00:30:18,396 Speaker 9: can be different effects. You know, some of the songs 522 00:30:18,396 --> 00:30:21,476 Speaker 9: are funny, some of them are not funny at all. 523 00:30:21,716 --> 00:30:26,196 Speaker 9: Some of them can do both. They can swerve into 524 00:30:27,516 --> 00:30:30,876 Speaker 9: they have jokes planted in them, comic relief, if you 525 00:30:30,956 --> 00:30:34,836 Speaker 9: will use the theatrical term. But it's all about taking 526 00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:36,836 Speaker 9: that three minutes or if it's a whole show, that 527 00:30:36,996 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 9: ninety minutes, and just taking them somewhere or dragging them 528 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:43,276 Speaker 9: somewhere in some case. 529 00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:47,196 Speaker 1: But that does sound like you conceive of your performances 530 00:30:47,236 --> 00:30:47,996 Speaker 1: almost as theater. 531 00:30:49,036 --> 00:30:49,716 Speaker 12: I think it is. 532 00:30:49,756 --> 00:30:54,236 Speaker 9: You know, it's a way you're in the dark. You know, 533 00:30:54,236 --> 00:30:56,116 Speaker 9: people are in the dark and they're watching you on 534 00:30:56,236 --> 00:30:58,796 Speaker 9: stage and you're you're performing for them. 535 00:30:58,836 --> 00:30:59,756 Speaker 12: It's an act. 536 00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 9: But again it can create there's some magic. 537 00:31:03,636 --> 00:31:04,516 Speaker 12: There can be magic. 538 00:31:04,596 --> 00:31:07,796 Speaker 1: There is that magic you feel when you're on stage. 539 00:31:07,876 --> 00:31:09,716 Speaker 1: Is that kind of feeds your performance? 540 00:31:11,676 --> 00:31:15,196 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a great it's a great feeling 541 00:31:15,596 --> 00:31:16,996 Speaker 9: the moment. You know, when I was a kid and 542 00:31:17,076 --> 00:31:19,796 Speaker 9: I was in school plays, it was I was never 543 00:31:19,996 --> 00:31:24,036 Speaker 9: was happier just just showing off, just being there. 544 00:31:24,196 --> 00:31:27,316 Speaker 12: I mean, I knew that that's as good as it gets. 545 00:31:28,116 --> 00:31:30,836 Speaker 1: And so songs like Your Mother and I, which is 546 00:31:30,876 --> 00:31:34,076 Speaker 1: one of your most famous songs as a heartbreaking song, 547 00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:40,876 Speaker 1: hitting You, which is about hitting your daughter, realizing you've 548 00:31:40,956 --> 00:31:42,076 Speaker 1: hit her too hard. 549 00:31:41,876 --> 00:31:45,316 Speaker 9: Right, losing it in an anger, was giving her a whack. 550 00:31:45,676 --> 00:31:50,916 Speaker 1: That would be the story. But underlying the song is 551 00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:54,156 Speaker 1: something I think that terrifies all parents, is that you've 552 00:31:54,156 --> 00:31:57,956 Speaker 1: broken something that can't be fixed. Yeah, when you get 553 00:31:57,956 --> 00:32:01,276 Speaker 1: to those kind of lines, does that can you feel 554 00:32:01,276 --> 00:32:02,476 Speaker 1: that reaction. 555 00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:04,236 Speaker 12: The song? Yeah? 556 00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:08,556 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, again people coming up after the show and 557 00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:12,436 Speaker 9: saying that's song, you know, and you have the person 558 00:32:13,036 --> 00:32:15,476 Speaker 9: kid that's getting whacked, But then you have the parent 559 00:32:15,556 --> 00:32:19,116 Speaker 9: that did it and just thinks, oh my god, I'm 560 00:32:19,156 --> 00:32:19,916 Speaker 9: going to pay for this. 561 00:32:20,476 --> 00:32:20,676 Speaker 12: You know? 562 00:32:20,796 --> 00:32:23,316 Speaker 9: That was that was I lost it, you know, And 563 00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:26,916 Speaker 9: so it's a it's a subject which is which is 564 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,876 Speaker 9: pretty powerful. 565 00:32:28,276 --> 00:32:31,796 Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaking of your songs like Your Mother and I 566 00:32:31,876 --> 00:32:35,796 Speaker 1: and other romantic songs or anti romantic songs. You mentioned 567 00:32:35,796 --> 00:32:38,316 Speaker 1: in the you come up with a syndrome in your book, 568 00:32:39,116 --> 00:32:42,756 Speaker 1: Sir Walter Raleigh syndrome. Yeah, I'd love for you to explain. 569 00:32:42,396 --> 00:32:49,516 Speaker 9: That the Sir Walter Raleigh syndrome. You know, Sir Walter Raleigh. Famously, 570 00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:53,796 Speaker 9: I guess it was Elizabeth the first or some Elizabeth 571 00:32:53,876 --> 00:32:57,636 Speaker 9: or other you know, was walking along with the queen 572 00:32:57,836 --> 00:33:00,836 Speaker 9: or and there's a mud puddle and he lays down 573 00:33:00,876 --> 00:33:04,516 Speaker 9: his cape so that she doesn't get her you know. 574 00:33:04,596 --> 00:33:09,596 Speaker 9: And again it's generational, you know, my mother urged it, 575 00:33:09,676 --> 00:33:13,116 Speaker 9: you know, this thing for just making sure that women 576 00:33:13,316 --> 00:33:16,796 Speaker 9: are you know, opening the door and giving them the 577 00:33:16,876 --> 00:33:20,516 Speaker 9: chair and paying the check always. You know that that's 578 00:33:20,556 --> 00:33:25,756 Speaker 9: a role that some men do or have, and I 579 00:33:25,756 --> 00:33:27,476 Speaker 9: certainly have it. But of course what it does is 580 00:33:27,516 --> 00:33:30,676 Speaker 9: it creates a kind of a resentment. You know, hey, 581 00:33:31,476 --> 00:33:35,036 Speaker 9: why doesn't she walk around the damn mud puddle, you know, 582 00:33:35,596 --> 00:33:38,636 Speaker 9: or get the these capes? You know, I have to 583 00:33:38,676 --> 00:33:41,076 Speaker 9: go to the dry cleaner again with these capes. 584 00:33:41,396 --> 00:33:42,716 Speaker 12: Give me a break, you know. 585 00:33:42,796 --> 00:33:45,876 Speaker 9: So it's a kind of a syndrome and it's probably 586 00:33:45,916 --> 00:33:48,676 Speaker 9: not good for either the Queen or Sir Walter Rawley. 587 00:33:49,196 --> 00:33:54,556 Speaker 9: But in this case, I was identifying with Sir Walter Raleigh. 588 00:33:54,596 --> 00:33:58,196 Speaker 1: And you've seen that. 589 00:33:58,276 --> 00:34:00,436 Speaker 12: It's played out in my own life. 590 00:34:01,276 --> 00:34:03,396 Speaker 1: Tell me about I think it's just a beautiful song 591 00:34:03,436 --> 00:34:05,716 Speaker 1: on the album, which is back in your Town. 592 00:34:06,476 --> 00:34:07,316 Speaker 12: Back in your Town. 593 00:34:07,516 --> 00:34:10,876 Speaker 9: Yeah, thank you. That's that's that's a bit older. That's 594 00:34:10,876 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 9: about fifteen years older, fifteen years old. You know, I 595 00:34:14,956 --> 00:34:19,676 Speaker 9: had a Now she's a great friend of mine, Tracy McLeod. 596 00:34:20,316 --> 00:34:23,396 Speaker 9: She know, we lived together for a couple of years 597 00:34:23,396 --> 00:34:26,516 Speaker 9: and she's English and she so it's about going going 598 00:34:26,556 --> 00:34:32,036 Speaker 9: back to London and actually walking past her house in 599 00:34:32,116 --> 00:34:35,196 Speaker 9: Saint John's Wood where we live together, and just that 600 00:34:35,236 --> 00:34:39,676 Speaker 9: feeling of God she's up there, and just being in 601 00:34:39,876 --> 00:34:42,556 Speaker 9: you know, the power of going back to that place. 602 00:34:43,756 --> 00:34:46,516 Speaker 1: You've a line about feeling like a refugee and a louse. 603 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:50,276 Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, yeah, So it's always tricky to come up 604 00:34:50,276 --> 00:34:53,356 Speaker 9: with a word to rhyme with house, but you know 605 00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:56,796 Speaker 9: you got this mouse. There aren't many but laos in 606 00:34:56,836 --> 00:34:58,036 Speaker 9: this case seemed to work. 607 00:34:59,716 --> 00:35:01,356 Speaker 1: You have other songs like a Little Piece of Me, 608 00:35:01,476 --> 00:35:08,716 Speaker 1: which is about traveling. Are they all instigated by specific episodes? 609 00:35:08,756 --> 00:35:12,796 Speaker 1: I could see somebody writing back in your town and saying, well, 610 00:35:12,836 --> 00:35:15,116 Speaker 1: that wasn't really about anybody. That's just that feeling you 611 00:35:15,156 --> 00:35:17,356 Speaker 1: get in another city. But for you, that was that 612 00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:18,756 Speaker 1: very specific feeling. 613 00:35:19,476 --> 00:35:22,796 Speaker 9: Well again, in the process of writing it, I think 614 00:35:22,836 --> 00:35:25,036 Speaker 9: of the specifics. I think of the town, I think 615 00:35:25,036 --> 00:35:28,916 Speaker 9: of that person. I can picture that straight. You know, 616 00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:32,636 Speaker 9: I know exactly where that looking up into that window 617 00:35:32,756 --> 00:35:36,636 Speaker 9: is so And again we talked about what my dad's influence, 618 00:35:36,796 --> 00:35:41,676 Speaker 9: you know, specificity in the process for hopefully it's generic, 619 00:35:41,756 --> 00:35:44,436 Speaker 9: hopefully everybody can identify with it, but I work with 620 00:35:44,516 --> 00:35:45,836 Speaker 9: the specifics of things. 621 00:35:46,076 --> 00:35:49,316 Speaker 1: I also thought, listening to that song, you have your 622 00:35:49,396 --> 00:35:52,476 Speaker 1: dad's journalistic tendency, which is you never want to use 623 00:35:52,476 --> 00:35:55,796 Speaker 1: the same word twice. So it's place, or it's town, 624 00:35:55,876 --> 00:35:59,436 Speaker 1: then it's place, then it's berg, which rhymes with cerb, 625 00:35:59,756 --> 00:36:02,116 Speaker 1: which means you can do that line about almost getting 626 00:36:02,196 --> 00:36:03,076 Speaker 1: hit by a bus. 627 00:36:03,636 --> 00:36:03,916 Speaker 12: Yeah. 628 00:36:03,996 --> 00:36:07,156 Speaker 1: The only thing that gives away that the song is 629 00:36:07,196 --> 00:36:09,116 Speaker 1: the double decker bus. I thought, well, it must be English. 630 00:36:09,436 --> 00:36:11,236 Speaker 12: I feel like I should play the song for you. 631 00:36:11,516 --> 00:36:12,836 Speaker 12: Play it please, for the people. 632 00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:24,516 Speaker 3: Gosh, I'm back in your town. 633 00:36:28,276 --> 00:36:30,396 Speaker 6: I'm walking around. 634 00:36:32,476 --> 00:36:37,676 Speaker 5: Crossing the street on sure on my feet, and I'm 635 00:36:37,796 --> 00:36:41,036 Speaker 5: carefully looking around. 636 00:36:42,156 --> 00:36:45,676 Speaker 4: Because I'm back in your town. 637 00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:48,076 Speaker 3: Yes, and not. 638 00:36:49,636 --> 00:36:50,956 Speaker 12: Back in this bird. 639 00:36:53,916 --> 00:36:58,356 Speaker 4: Oh heaven sure, I better. 640 00:36:58,476 --> 00:36:59,916 Speaker 8: I look to the right. 641 00:37:00,436 --> 00:37:04,556 Speaker 4: A double decker just mate. 642 00:37:03,996 --> 00:37:06,756 Speaker 9: Hit me when I step off the curve. 643 00:37:09,316 --> 00:37:11,836 Speaker 4: I'm back in this boot. 644 00:37:13,516 --> 00:37:17,676 Speaker 10: Just sit back in that place. 645 00:37:19,356 --> 00:37:22,316 Speaker 2: Last time I left the hardy trees. 646 00:37:24,556 --> 00:37:25,676 Speaker 12: Now that out to. 647 00:37:25,876 --> 00:37:29,116 Speaker 4: Turn and ask me what of I learned? 648 00:37:29,236 --> 00:37:32,716 Speaker 9: Go ahead and take a look on my face. 649 00:37:35,476 --> 00:37:38,036 Speaker 5: I'm back in that place. 650 00:37:39,636 --> 00:37:42,356 Speaker 12: You leave someone behind and. 651 00:37:42,556 --> 00:37:46,636 Speaker 4: You think you won't mind until you go back and 652 00:37:46,836 --> 00:37:51,596 Speaker 4: find you still can't your. 653 00:37:51,076 --> 00:37:54,156 Speaker 8: Background start and enough mind. 654 00:37:54,476 --> 00:37:58,916 Speaker 11: I was smart at my feeling you thought it wasn't there, 655 00:38:06,156 --> 00:38:06,796 Speaker 11: still there. 656 00:38:22,956 --> 00:38:28,996 Speaker 4: I walked right past your house, feeling like a refuge 657 00:38:29,556 --> 00:38:31,036 Speaker 4: and alas. 658 00:38:33,036 --> 00:38:36,956 Speaker 2: You were at all, But you were not alone. 659 00:38:37,316 --> 00:38:40,716 Speaker 12: You were there with your kids and your spouse. 660 00:38:43,876 --> 00:38:51,076 Speaker 4: I walked right past your house, so now feeling bereft, 661 00:38:53,556 --> 00:39:00,756 Speaker 4: I'm feeling like I never even left. Every thanks changed, 662 00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:05,756 Speaker 4: but it's the same. It's still all here, but nothing 663 00:39:06,036 --> 00:39:06,556 Speaker 4: is left. 664 00:39:10,036 --> 00:39:11,476 Speaker 6: I'm feeling breath. 665 00:39:13,156 --> 00:39:15,836 Speaker 12: You leave someone behind and. 666 00:39:15,996 --> 00:39:19,996 Speaker 4: Didn't think you won't bad until you go back and 667 00:39:20,196 --> 00:39:21,756 Speaker 4: fine you still care. 668 00:39:23,996 --> 00:39:27,356 Speaker 13: You're back where starting and I mine. 669 00:39:27,596 --> 00:39:35,796 Speaker 4: I'm smarted by feeling you thought it wasn't there. I'm 670 00:39:35,956 --> 00:39:39,756 Speaker 4: back in your town. 671 00:39:40,636 --> 00:39:45,876 Speaker 11: I'm walking around, crossing the street. 672 00:39:46,836 --> 00:39:57,636 Speaker 4: I'm sure on my feet, and I'm carefully looking around. 673 00:39:58,076 --> 00:39:59,956 Speaker 4: I'm back in your town. 674 00:40:07,716 --> 00:40:09,916 Speaker 2: One last break and we back with Loud and Wayne 675 00:40:09,956 --> 00:40:10,876 Speaker 2: right the third. 676 00:40:14,996 --> 00:40:18,956 Speaker 1: Before we go, I do want to ask you about 677 00:40:19,116 --> 00:40:21,156 Speaker 1: a couple of our favorite people that you've worked with, 678 00:40:21,956 --> 00:40:25,436 Speaker 1: And the first is Richard Thompson. Oh yeah, you did? 679 00:40:25,636 --> 00:40:27,796 Speaker 1: I think two albums with him in the eighties. Tell 680 00:40:27,836 --> 00:40:28,316 Speaker 1: me about that. 681 00:40:30,116 --> 00:40:30,396 Speaker 12: Wow. 682 00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:37,756 Speaker 9: Rich In nineteen eighty five or four, I talked about 683 00:40:37,796 --> 00:40:42,076 Speaker 9: all my old gal friends, Susy Roach and I split 684 00:40:42,196 --> 00:40:45,436 Speaker 9: up and I decided to go to England and actually 685 00:40:45,476 --> 00:40:49,356 Speaker 9: went over there and bought a flat up in West Hampstead. 686 00:40:49,476 --> 00:40:53,716 Speaker 9: And I had met Richard probably around nineteen seventy eight, 687 00:40:54,316 --> 00:40:57,476 Speaker 9: and it'd been a huge Prior to that, i'd been 688 00:40:57,516 --> 00:41:01,756 Speaker 9: a huge fan of his work, but we did some 689 00:41:01,916 --> 00:41:06,156 Speaker 9: festivals and things together in seventy eight. And so when 690 00:41:06,156 --> 00:41:11,396 Speaker 9: I got over there, I was getting ready to make 691 00:41:11,436 --> 00:41:15,116 Speaker 9: a record and I was talking to my friend Paul Charles, 692 00:41:15,156 --> 00:41:19,316 Speaker 9: and I said, what about if I asked Richard to 693 00:41:19,476 --> 00:41:24,876 Speaker 9: produce it? And Paul said yeah, and I asked him 694 00:41:24,916 --> 00:41:28,276 Speaker 9: and we we He did it. It's a record called 695 00:41:28,356 --> 00:41:32,356 Speaker 9: I'm all Right. And I should say that you know, 696 00:41:32,996 --> 00:41:35,796 Speaker 9: in the in the late seventies, you know, I kind 697 00:41:35,796 --> 00:41:39,276 Speaker 9: of got was making some kind of overproduced, kind of 698 00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:42,716 Speaker 9: crappy records. They weren't totally crappy, but they were there. 699 00:41:42,836 --> 00:41:47,116 Speaker 9: Certainly there was an element of overproduction so Richard and 700 00:41:47,196 --> 00:41:50,876 Speaker 9: I talked about and he suggested that we really if 701 00:41:50,916 --> 00:41:53,876 Speaker 9: we do production, we're gonna do production that where the 702 00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:57,676 Speaker 9: song is served by the production and not worry about 703 00:41:57,676 --> 00:42:00,556 Speaker 9: getting it on the radio and stuff. So and that's 704 00:42:00,596 --> 00:42:02,116 Speaker 9: what we did with that record. And then we did 705 00:42:02,156 --> 00:42:07,196 Speaker 9: another record called More Love Songs. Again there's drums on it, 706 00:42:07,236 --> 00:42:09,796 Speaker 9: and there's a bass on it, and there's stuff on it, 707 00:42:10,076 --> 00:42:12,196 Speaker 9: but it doesn't get in the way of the songs. 708 00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:15,556 Speaker 9: And of course this Richard's guitar playing, which is kind 709 00:42:15,556 --> 00:42:22,036 Speaker 9: of ridiculously marvelous. So those records are I feel good 710 00:42:22,036 --> 00:42:25,316 Speaker 9: about those records that they got nominated for Grammys, and 711 00:42:26,436 --> 00:42:29,316 Speaker 9: people liked him a lot, and so I was very 712 00:42:29,356 --> 00:42:32,476 Speaker 9: happy to work with rich And occasionally we get to 713 00:42:32,516 --> 00:42:35,876 Speaker 9: do shows. He last year, I. 714 00:42:35,756 --> 00:42:37,956 Speaker 12: Guess it was because of the pandemic. It was a 715 00:42:37,956 --> 00:42:38,796 Speaker 12: couple of years ago. 716 00:42:39,476 --> 00:42:42,196 Speaker 9: He celebrated his seventieth birthday at a big show at 717 00:42:42,196 --> 00:42:45,316 Speaker 9: Albert Hall in London, and I got to go and 718 00:42:45,516 --> 00:42:49,996 Speaker 9: sing and play with him. And I love rich He's 719 00:42:49,996 --> 00:42:50,516 Speaker 9: the greatest. 720 00:42:50,636 --> 00:42:55,076 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm interested in you guys sitting with guitars 721 00:42:55,116 --> 00:42:58,956 Speaker 1: because he is a brilliant guitarist. You are really underrated. 722 00:42:58,956 --> 00:43:04,636 Speaker 1: As a guitar player and as an instrumentalist. I think, well, 723 00:43:04,956 --> 00:43:05,996 Speaker 1: I play rhythm guitar. 724 00:43:06,556 --> 00:43:09,476 Speaker 9: You know, it's all about what's going on with the 725 00:43:09,556 --> 00:43:13,396 Speaker 9: right hand, because I can't really play any licks like 726 00:43:14,196 --> 00:43:17,596 Speaker 9: I've played with great guitar players Richard Thompson, Bill Frizzell, 727 00:43:18,316 --> 00:43:22,956 Speaker 9: John Schofield. I mean, you know these guys, But I 728 00:43:24,036 --> 00:43:26,636 Speaker 9: feel pretty good about my my rhythm guitar playing. It's 729 00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:27,356 Speaker 9: pretty solid. 730 00:43:27,636 --> 00:43:31,836 Speaker 1: Now there's some beautiful instrumentation on this news. This new album, 731 00:43:32,556 --> 00:43:35,636 Speaker 1: Lifetime Achievement Back in your Town's got a beautiful treatment 732 00:43:36,236 --> 00:43:39,036 Speaker 1: a little piece of me. I think it's got some Well, 733 00:43:39,036 --> 00:43:39,956 Speaker 1: you also played banjo. 734 00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:41,996 Speaker 9: I play some banjo on the record, but that's how 735 00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:44,676 Speaker 9: I'm Tannebaum playing the other banjo. My other great guitar 736 00:43:44,716 --> 00:43:48,876 Speaker 9: player who's all over this record is David Mansfield, who's 737 00:43:48,916 --> 00:43:51,076 Speaker 9: a great you know, he's up there in that strata 738 00:43:51,236 --> 00:43:52,516 Speaker 9: with those guys. 739 00:43:52,356 --> 00:43:56,596 Speaker 1: Right Also, I would say, Richard Thompson, if there were 740 00:43:56,636 --> 00:44:01,996 Speaker 1: a list of artists who have turned broken relationships into 741 00:44:02,036 --> 00:44:03,796 Speaker 1: great art, I would say you two would be in 742 00:44:03,796 --> 00:44:07,876 Speaker 1: the top five easily. You know, he's one of the 743 00:44:07,876 --> 00:44:09,556 Speaker 1: great breakup albums. Of all time. 744 00:44:09,956 --> 00:44:11,556 Speaker 12: Are you talking about shoot Out the Lights? 745 00:44:11,796 --> 00:44:14,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah that Yeah, that's. 746 00:44:14,396 --> 00:44:17,756 Speaker 12: A great, great record. And he and he, uh, of. 747 00:44:17,636 --> 00:44:19,756 Speaker 1: Course Richard Richard does he and his wife Linda. We 748 00:44:19,796 --> 00:44:21,036 Speaker 1: should mention sure. 749 00:44:21,556 --> 00:44:26,196 Speaker 9: Linda just had a birthday, okay, a couple of days ago. Uh, yeah, 750 00:44:26,276 --> 00:44:29,316 Speaker 9: Linda and rich I mean that they made those wonderful 751 00:44:29,356 --> 00:44:33,076 Speaker 9: records and uh talk about breakup albums. I I saw 752 00:44:33,476 --> 00:44:36,556 Speaker 9: some of the shows that they did to support Shootout 753 00:44:36,556 --> 00:44:41,956 Speaker 9: the Lights, and boy, that was Stringberg on stage at 754 00:44:41,996 --> 00:44:46,076 Speaker 9: the bottom line. I mean it was ferociously and it's 755 00:44:46,156 --> 00:44:50,436 Speaker 9: so compelling, you know. Of course, Richard, if you ask him, 756 00:44:50,996 --> 00:44:53,196 Speaker 9: is this one about? What's this one about? And which 757 00:44:53,356 --> 00:44:53,916 Speaker 9: what girl? 758 00:44:53,996 --> 00:44:54,636 Speaker 4: And what? 759 00:44:55,076 --> 00:44:55,276 Speaker 12: You know? 760 00:44:55,356 --> 00:45:00,796 Speaker 9: He says he denies that it's autobiographical, but that's that's 761 00:45:00,876 --> 00:45:01,476 Speaker 9: his option. 762 00:45:01,996 --> 00:45:05,396 Speaker 1: The other person I wanted to ask about was Joe Henry. 763 00:45:05,836 --> 00:45:06,796 Speaker 12: Yeah. 764 00:45:07,356 --> 00:45:10,476 Speaker 1: Oh, well, great great songwriter. 765 00:45:10,116 --> 00:45:14,436 Speaker 9: Great great songwriter, a great producer. We did a couple 766 00:45:14,476 --> 00:45:20,436 Speaker 9: of records together, and uh, great guy, uh all around 767 00:45:20,516 --> 00:45:25,036 Speaker 9: working with Joe. Uh. When Joe works, he gets together 768 00:45:25,316 --> 00:45:28,716 Speaker 9: his group of players and and it's in the room 769 00:45:28,756 --> 00:45:33,636 Speaker 9: and it's live. Greg Lease, David Pilch, Jay Bellarrose, this 770 00:45:33,756 --> 00:45:35,236 Speaker 9: amazing drummer that Joe. 771 00:45:35,116 --> 00:45:35,756 Speaker 12: Likes to use. 772 00:45:35,836 --> 00:45:40,156 Speaker 9: That the t bone Burnette has now poached and taken away. 773 00:45:40,796 --> 00:45:44,676 Speaker 9: But Joe, Joe, Joe's about getting the guys in the 774 00:45:44,756 --> 00:45:46,916 Speaker 9: room and just making it real in the room, and 775 00:45:46,956 --> 00:45:51,596 Speaker 9: then then capturing the recording. And he makes beautiful records 776 00:45:51,636 --> 00:45:54,476 Speaker 9: with with a lot of different people and writes wonderful songs. 777 00:45:54,636 --> 00:45:56,676 Speaker 1: Is that a Is that a way you like to record? 778 00:45:57,396 --> 00:45:59,276 Speaker 9: It's fun to do it that way. I've done it 779 00:45:59,316 --> 00:46:02,396 Speaker 9: that way, and when Joe's at the helm, I feel confident. 780 00:46:02,796 --> 00:46:06,836 Speaker 9: When we did this last record, Lifetime Achievement, I went 781 00:46:06,876 --> 00:46:10,516 Speaker 9: into the studio by myself with my guitar and laid 782 00:46:10,516 --> 00:46:13,996 Speaker 9: down all my stuff beforehand, and then we added stuff. 783 00:46:14,436 --> 00:46:17,236 Speaker 9: That's another way that I've worked, you know, where you 784 00:46:17,396 --> 00:46:19,476 Speaker 9: just get the core of what I do, which is 785 00:46:19,516 --> 00:46:23,876 Speaker 9: me playing the guitar. And then Stewart and Dick Knnett, 786 00:46:23,916 --> 00:46:26,876 Speaker 9: you know they worked with well, let's put Mansfield over 787 00:46:26,916 --> 00:46:30,836 Speaker 9: here and Tannenbaum over here and maybe bring in a 788 00:46:30,916 --> 00:46:32,796 Speaker 9: drummer secretly, and. 789 00:46:32,756 --> 00:46:35,316 Speaker 1: You led the drums after you laid down the rhythm. 790 00:46:35,116 --> 00:46:36,836 Speaker 12: Track on this record we did. 791 00:46:37,316 --> 00:46:40,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. Joe's also Joe Henry's also a way 792 00:46:40,676 --> 00:46:44,836 Speaker 1: of mentioning you guys worked on the Knocked Up soundtrack 793 00:46:45,156 --> 00:46:47,276 Speaker 1: which had Daughter, which is a great song of yours, 794 00:46:47,596 --> 00:46:50,436 Speaker 1: which we haven't talked about. In fact, you do act 795 00:46:50,476 --> 00:46:54,076 Speaker 1: all the time. You're in all kinds of things always. 796 00:46:53,876 --> 00:46:59,156 Speaker 9: Well, uh yeah, I get acting jobs and and Joe 797 00:46:59,236 --> 00:47:03,236 Speaker 9: and I did do the Strange Weirdos record which is More, 798 00:47:03,316 --> 00:47:05,996 Speaker 9: which was kind of a soundtrack record for the Judd 799 00:47:05,996 --> 00:47:12,876 Speaker 9: Apatow movie of Knocked Up, and Joe produced that record Daughter, 800 00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:15,876 Speaker 9: which is from that album, which I have to say 801 00:47:15,996 --> 00:47:18,396 Speaker 9: and admit to you that I did not write a 802 00:47:18,476 --> 00:47:21,116 Speaker 9: lot of people think I wrote it. It was written 803 00:47:21,116 --> 00:47:25,476 Speaker 9: by the I'm so effusive with my praise today with 804 00:47:25,596 --> 00:47:32,596 Speaker 9: the wonderful, incredible songwriter Peter Blagvad. He wrote Daughter, and 805 00:47:33,556 --> 00:47:36,316 Speaker 9: I sang it and we recorded it. But a lot 806 00:47:36,356 --> 00:47:39,516 Speaker 9: of people think that I wrote Daughter. I wish I had, 807 00:47:39,676 --> 00:47:40,796 Speaker 9: but I didn't. 808 00:47:40,436 --> 00:47:44,236 Speaker 1: Just take it. When I was just reading things about 809 00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:48,196 Speaker 1: this album, about what you're doing now, I came across 810 00:47:48,236 --> 00:47:51,676 Speaker 1: the NPR review of the album, and I don't know 811 00:47:51,716 --> 00:47:55,316 Speaker 1: if you read that or not, but there was there 812 00:47:55,356 --> 00:47:58,116 Speaker 1: was a paragraph that jumped out at me, which was 813 00:47:59,036 --> 00:48:04,916 Speaker 1: well before owning up to privilege was a thing. Wainwright 814 00:48:04,996 --> 00:48:07,076 Speaker 1: had made a career out of being honest about his 815 00:48:07,196 --> 00:48:12,236 Speaker 1: white Anglo Saxon Protestant upbringing, freely admitting that male wasps 816 00:48:12,636 --> 00:48:17,556 Speaker 1: like him got away with far too much. Now I 817 00:48:17,556 --> 00:48:18,516 Speaker 1: guess that's accurate. 818 00:48:19,036 --> 00:48:22,156 Speaker 9: It feels a little sounds a little updikey. 819 00:48:21,796 --> 00:48:26,196 Speaker 1: A little updikey, a little hostile. You know, the world 820 00:48:26,236 --> 00:48:29,516 Speaker 1: has changed in the way we think about families and 821 00:48:29,636 --> 00:48:33,476 Speaker 1: men and women and relationships has changed. Could you be 822 00:48:33,556 --> 00:48:36,796 Speaker 1: the same singer songwriter coming up today? 823 00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:41,716 Speaker 12: I mean, could I get away with it? Or would I? 824 00:48:42,836 --> 00:48:46,676 Speaker 9: Yes, that's what you mean in a way, Yes, probably not. 825 00:48:46,916 --> 00:48:47,916 Speaker 9: I mean there's so much. 826 00:48:47,716 --> 00:48:49,756 Speaker 12: That you can't get away with today. 827 00:48:50,516 --> 00:48:52,916 Speaker 9: You know, I'm thinking. I have a song on my 828 00:48:52,956 --> 00:48:56,796 Speaker 9: second album as a song called Motel Blues, which you know, 829 00:48:58,396 --> 00:49:01,596 Speaker 9: Joe Henry recorded it on the record that we did 830 00:49:01,636 --> 00:49:03,596 Speaker 9: call Recovery with his band. 831 00:49:04,116 --> 00:49:06,476 Speaker 1: It's a good song, great song. 832 00:49:07,556 --> 00:49:13,996 Speaker 9: It's about being lonely and about trying to lure a 833 00:49:14,036 --> 00:49:17,116 Speaker 9: woman up to my room to be because I'm lonely 834 00:49:17,156 --> 00:49:19,316 Speaker 9: and that's what it's. 835 00:49:19,196 --> 00:49:22,836 Speaker 1: About, and come and save my life, right. 836 00:49:22,716 --> 00:49:24,916 Speaker 9: It's a come up to my motel room, saved my life, 837 00:49:24,956 --> 00:49:27,476 Speaker 9: and then it then it says, come up to my 838 00:49:27,556 --> 00:49:28,756 Speaker 9: motel room, sleep with me. 839 00:49:30,076 --> 00:49:31,636 Speaker 12: So could just do that now? 840 00:49:32,156 --> 00:49:37,356 Speaker 9: I don't know, but uh or what I've written that now, 841 00:49:37,916 --> 00:49:40,116 Speaker 9: I like to think that I would have because it's 842 00:49:40,396 --> 00:49:44,436 Speaker 9: what happened, and it doesn't happen now. Now it's come 843 00:49:44,516 --> 00:49:46,556 Speaker 9: up to my motel room and show me how to 844 00:49:46,556 --> 00:49:47,356 Speaker 9: work the Wi Fi. 845 00:49:48,596 --> 00:49:48,836 Speaker 12: You know. 846 00:49:50,436 --> 00:49:52,596 Speaker 9: So it's not really an issue for me now, but 847 00:49:52,676 --> 00:49:57,556 Speaker 9: as a twenty two year old lonely touring musician, you know, 848 00:49:57,716 --> 00:49:58,876 Speaker 9: it was what was going on. 849 00:49:58,996 --> 00:50:00,276 Speaker 12: So I wrote about it. 850 00:50:00,276 --> 00:50:01,356 Speaker 1: Listen, thank you so much. 851 00:50:01,516 --> 00:50:03,076 Speaker 12: Oh, I've enjoyed talking with you, just. 852 00:50:03,076 --> 00:50:06,596 Speaker 1: Great talking and a great album. Another great album. Thank 853 00:50:06,636 --> 00:50:09,116 Speaker 1: you so much, thank you. 854 00:50:10,716 --> 00:50:12,756 Speaker 2: In the episode description, you'll find a link to a 855 00:50:12,756 --> 00:50:15,316 Speaker 2: playlist of our favorite Loud and Win Right the third tracks, 856 00:50:15,396 --> 00:50:16,676 Speaker 2: as well as his latest. 857 00:50:16,396 --> 00:50:17,876 Speaker 12: Album, Lifetime Achievement. 858 00:50:18,396 --> 00:50:20,476 Speaker 2: Be sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken 859 00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:23,756 Speaker 2: Record Podcast to see all our video interviews, and be 860 00:50:23,796 --> 00:50:26,476 Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. 861 00:50:26,796 --> 00:50:29,716 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken 862 00:50:29,716 --> 00:50:32,116 Speaker 2: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with Marketing 863 00:50:32,116 --> 00:50:34,996 Speaker 2: and help from Eric Sandler and Jordana McMillan. Our engineer 864 00:50:35,116 --> 00:50:38,956 Speaker 2: is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. 865 00:50:39,116 --> 00:50:41,596 Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 866 00:50:41,636 --> 00:50:45,156 Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 867 00:50:45,236 --> 00:50:48,036 Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 868 00:50:48,116 --> 00:50:50,396 Speaker 2: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 869 00:50:50,436 --> 00:50:53,956 Speaker 2: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember 870 00:50:53,996 --> 00:50:56,036 Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app 871 00:50:56,356 --> 00:50:58,716 Speaker 2: Our theme music ex by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richard